Author Topic: What are you Churning? - November 2019  (Read 3517 times)

Milkshake

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What are you Churning? - November 2019
« on: November 13, 2019, 10:04:34 AM »
Hi everyone, I haven't seen a recent credit cards thread, so figured I would start up another one.

I have some big bills coming up in the next 30 days (3k-ish) so I'm looking for a good sign up bonus. I've already done the CSR, CSP, Venture and a few others. I still have 5/24 available though, so I would take a good Chase card. The best one I'm seeing so far is 150k points on the Hilton card, but Hilton points can be pretty worthless. Any annual fee is fine with me if the bonus is good enough.

Thoughts? What are you churning right now?

aloevera

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2019, 12:42:05 PM »
I'm thinking about the Chase United. But haven't pulled the trigger yet.

StacheDash

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2019, 12:48:58 PM »
We’re working on getting a Southwest Companion Pass. We are working the business card bonus now, and we will get a personal card in January or so. I’m not sure what we will do after that.

therethere

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2019, 12:50:16 PM »
I'm working on a Chase Ink Business Unlimited. Then I'm taking a break for the rest of the year. I recommend you start working on Chase business cards while you're under 5/24. They're lucrative and if you keep CSP or CSR you can transfer your points and receive the 25% and 50% bonus on redemption through the UR portal.

Bernard

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2019, 01:01:02 PM »
Next in line is a Chase Ink card. Nothing else makes sense until you reach 5/24.
It doesn't matter if you have a business or not. In theory, if you walk your neighbor's dog and he gives you a buck for it, you have a business.
Not that anybody cares . . .

DadJokes

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2019, 01:04:25 PM »
It's a good time of year to open a SW business card to start working toward the CP for 2020-21.

Milkshake

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2019, 01:32:54 PM »
I always forget about business cards. I have a couple photos for sale on a stock photo site, so I'm a freelance photographer, right?

I love the idea of the SW CP but our local airport isn't serviced, it's a 2 hour drive to the nearest one that SW flies to. Maybe worth it though, now that they fly to Hawaii..

therethere

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2019, 01:40:52 PM »
The main thing is to use your name as the business name. If you don't, you can get sucked into the path of having to prove your business. For instance, don't put James Bond Photography. Just put James Bond and choose photography as the business category.

mm1970

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2019, 01:45:20 PM »
I helped make butter today at my son's field trip, ha!

Milkshake

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2019, 02:06:07 PM »
The main thing is to use your name as the business name. If you don't, you can get sucked into the path of having to prove your business. For instance, don't put James Bond Photography. Just put James Bond and choose photography as the business category.
Ah, good point. I probably would've tried to come up with some witty name for it and that would've been a mess.

I helped make butter today at my son's field trip, ha!
Nice! You win pun of the day haha

Duke03

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2019, 06:30:28 PM »
Earn Burn Churn.... Always be churning....This is the motto I live by.....



To answer your question I'm currently churning my way to another SW companion pass that will start in Jan and last for 23 months.  God bless Chase bank they are truly the gift that keeps on giving!!!!

Chris @ Saturday Financial

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2019, 07:04:38 AM »
Earn Burn Churn.... Always be churning....This is the motto I live by.....



To answer your question I'm currently churning my way to another SW companion pass that will start in Jan and last for 23 months.  God bless Chase bank they are truly the gift that keeps on giving!!!!

Heads up if you are working toward a Companion Pass... If you have the ability to reach 110,000 points in Dec. 2019 instead of Jan. 2020, you'll probably want to do that even though the companion pass will only last 13 months. This is from an email I received from Southwest on October 17 with the subject line "We're making some changes to Rapid Rewards":

"We know how important it is to experience new places with family and friends, which is why we created the unparalleled benefit of Companion Pass. To continue offering unlimited flights for Companions when flying with their Companion Pass holder, we're increasing the points required to earn a Companion Pass from 110,000 to 125,000 beginning January 1, 2020."

Of course, if you planning to reach 125,000 points in January instead of just 110,000, then carry on as planned. :)

ducky19

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2019, 10:16:18 AM »
I'm a complete churn whore - I've got 32 open cards with a total available limit of just over $400k. These days, I churn whatever offers I get as I've pretty much gone through all of the best offers! I recently got a $100 cash back after $1500 spend BBVA card, followed by a $100 cash back after $1000 spend from PNC. That's most of the types of offers I get anymore, which I'm still fine with as I have no issue hitting those spends with regular bills that I'm already spending money on. I have 9 cards actively enrolled in tradeline sales and have made over $5000 for the second year running from those. If anyone has additional suggestions for cards for me, I'm all ears. I also like playing the "yep, got it" game... ;)

bbates728

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2019, 10:33:52 AM »
I'm a complete churn whore - I've got 32 open cards with a total available limit of just over $400k. These days, I churn whatever offers I get as I've pretty much gone through all of the best offers! I recently got a $100 cash back after $1500 spend BBVA card, followed by a $100 cash back after $1000 spend from PNC. That's most of the types of offers I get anymore, which I'm still fine with as I have no issue hitting those spends with regular bills that I'm already spending money on. I have 9 cards actively enrolled in tradeline sales and have made over $5000 for the second year running from those. If anyone has additional suggestions for cards for me, I'm all ears. I also like playing the "yep, got it" game... ;)

Quick question if you don't mind. With so many cards open, aren't the annual fees killing your profit? If you are balancing the AFs with tradelines, what did it look like when your cards were still too young for tradelines?

Chris @ Saturday Financial

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2019, 10:56:49 AM »
I'm a complete churn whore - I've got 32 open cards with a total available limit of just over $400k. These days, I churn whatever offers I get as I've pretty much gone through all of the best offers! I recently got a $100 cash back after $1500 spend BBVA card, followed by a $100 cash back after $1000 spend from PNC. That's most of the types of offers I get anymore, which I'm still fine with as I have no issue hitting those spends with regular bills that I'm already spending money on. I have 9 cards actively enrolled in tradeline sales and have made over $5000 for the second year running from those. If anyone has additional suggestions for cards for me, I'm all ears. I also like playing the "yep, got it" game... ;)

Quick question if you don't mind. With so many cards open, aren't the annual fees killing your profit? If you are balancing the AFs with tradelines, what did it look like when your cards were still too young for tradelines?

I'm jumping in here... Most cards with annual fees can be converted to cards with no annual fee after the first year. So when 12 months is approaching, you can call the company and ask if there are any available cards that you can convert to. Your credit isn't pulled, and your account stays open with the same payment history, etc. The only thing that changes is that your account used to have an annual fee card attached to it, but now it has a no-fee card attached to it.

ducky19

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2019, 11:04:23 AM »
I'm a complete churn whore - I've got 32 open cards with a total available limit of just over $400k. These days, I churn whatever offers I get as I've pretty much gone through all of the best offers! I recently got a $100 cash back after $1500 spend BBVA card, followed by a $100 cash back after $1000 spend from PNC. That's most of the types of offers I get anymore, which I'm still fine with as I have no issue hitting those spends with regular bills that I'm already spending money on. I have 9 cards actively enrolled in tradeline sales and have made over $5000 for the second year running from those. If anyone has additional suggestions for cards for me, I'm all ears. I also like playing the "yep, got it" game... ;)

Quick question if you don't mind. With so many cards open, aren't the annual fees killing your profit? If you are balancing the AFs with tradelines, what did it look like when your cards were still too young for tradelines?

I only have 5-6 cards that have an annual fee, the rest don't have one. Of those, two are used for tradelines that more than offset the fees on all of the cards. The rest are AmEx and I get enough value from the benefits (Hilton, Bonvoy, and Delta) that I feel the annual fee is worth it.

Before I started selling tradelines, I didn't have any cards with an annual fee minus the AmEx cards listed above - that, or they were $0 for the first year and I would cancel or downgrade before the fee hit. I have enough Bank of America and Barclay cards now that offer 0% interest with a 2-3% fee that I've used for financing big expenses (think furnace / AC replacement, carpet, etc.).

I'm considering combining some of these offers and leveraging them into cash offers in the $35-40k range for 2 bed/1 bath rental properties, then mortgaging the property once the sale goes through. I did that with my 401k once before, the allure of a cash offer can mean scoring a 20% or higher discount on the price of the home in this area.

Some have asked me too if my credit score has taken a hit due to the high number of inquiries and open accounts, but the high overall limit and low utilization (around 3% usually) keep my score in the mid to high 700's.

MyAlterEgoIsTaller

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2019, 11:14:27 AM »
I haven't done much of this credit card churning, and have a couple questions:

1. I have a legitimate side consulting business, so the part about possibly having to prove the name of the business is fine because it's all registered and has an EIN and all that.  But the card offers seem to have requirements like "$3000 of business expenses in 3 months".  I have virtually no actual business expenses.  What counts as a business expense?  Will I still get the bonus if what I'm charging is household stuff like pet food and snow tires?

2.  I recently applied for a Capital One card and collected the bonus.  Almost immediately after that Citibank closed down one of my longest-held credit cards out of the blue, because it was "inactive" (true, but it's been inactive for years).  Is that normal?  Is it just a coincidence, or did something about opening that other new card trigger their system to examine me and kick me out?

3.  Now that Citibank has shut me down for inactivity, should I just open another card with them, to collect a new bonus?  Or is it likely that they won't let me back in?

therethere

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2019, 11:16:28 AM »
I haven't done much of this credit card churning, and have a couple questions:

1. I have a legitimate side consulting business, so the part about possibly having to prove the name of the business is fine because it's all registered and has an EIN and all that.  But the card offers seem to have requirements like "$3000 of business expenses in 3 months".  I have virtually no actual business expenses.  What counts as a business expense?  Will I still get the bonus if what I'm charging is household stuff like pet food and snow tires? Yes, any spend has counted in my experience.

2.  I recently applied for a Capital One card and collected the bonus.  Almost immediately after that Citibank closed down one of my longest-held credit cards out of the blue, because it was "inactive" (true, but it's been inactive for years).  Is that normal?  Is it just a coincidence, or did something about opening that other new card trigger their system to examine me and kick me out? This is very likely due to inactivity only, not opening another card. Citi closed my oldest account once I hadn't charged on it for 5 years or so.

3.  Now that Citibank has shut me down for inactivity, should I just open another card with them, to collect a new bonus?  Or is it likely that they won't let me back in?
You'll be able to get a new card and bonus. No worries here either.

Chris @ Saturday Financial

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2019, 11:25:15 AM »
I haven't done much of this credit card churning, and have a couple questions:

1. I have a legitimate side consulting business, so the part about possibly having to prove the name of the business is fine because it's all registered and has an EIN and all that.  But the card offers seem to have requirements like "$3000 of business expenses in 3 months".  I have virtually no actual business expenses.  What counts as a business expense?  Will I still get the bonus if what I'm charging is household stuff like pet food and snow tires? Yes, any spend has counted in my experience.

2.  I recently applied for a Capital One card and collected the bonus.  Almost immediately after that Citibank closed down one of my longest-held credit cards out of the blue, because it was "inactive" (true, but it's been inactive for years).  Is that normal?  Is it just a coincidence, or did something about opening that other new card trigger their system to examine me and kick me out? This is very likely due to inactivity only, not opening another card. Citi closed my oldest account once I hadn't charged on it for 5 years or so.

3.  Now that Citibank has shut me down for inactivity, should I just open another card with them, to collect a new bonus?  Or is it likely that they won't let me back in?
You'll be able to get a new card and bonus. No worries here either.

1. It doesn't matter whether your spending on the new card is for business expenses or personal expenses. You just need to meet the minimum spend to get the bonus.

2. This is almost definitely a complete coincidence. Citi did the same thing to me due to inactivity, and they aren't the only company to do so in similar situations. If you want to guarantee that a particular card stay open, be sure the make at least one purchase every 12 months.

3. You shouldn't have any problem being approved by Citi for a new card.

ETA: Sorry I didn't realize that therethere had already answered questions 1 and 2 within the quote. Our answers to all three questions are the same. :)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2019, 11:26:48 AM by Chris @ Saturday Financial »

Milkshake

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2019, 02:20:48 PM »
Quick question if you don't mind. With so many cards open, aren't the annual fees killing your profit? If you are balancing the AFs with tradelines, what did it look like when your cards were still too young for tradelines?

As Chris said, I also downgrade almost every card to a free, no fee version unless there is clearly a profitable path forward on the annual fee version. I have 9 cards open, 4 of which had AFs that weren't waived the first year. I keep track of all point redemptions and annual fees paid, and monitor my net profit from churning. Banked points don't count if they aren't used yet, and my baseline is if I would've paid cash for everything.

2016 - Present
Dollars Spent: $1875.00
Dollars Made: $8658.54
NET: $6783.54

Not impressive compared to the true churners out there, but generally annual fee cards are worth their bite for the sign up bonus.

bbates728

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2019, 02:55:54 PM »
Quick question if you don't mind. With so many cards open, aren't the annual fees killing your profit? If you are balancing the AFs with tradelines, what did it look like when your cards were still too young for tradelines?

As Chris said, I also downgrade almost every card to a free, no fee version unless there is clearly a profitable path forward on the annual fee version. I have 9 cards open, 4 of which had AFs that weren't waived the first year. I keep track of all point redemptions and annual fees paid, and monitor my net profit from churning. Banked points don't count if they aren't used yet, and my baseline is if I would've paid cash for everything.

2016 - Present
Dollars Spent: $1875.00
Dollars Made: $8658.54
NET: $6783.54

Not impressive compared to the true churners out there, but generally annual fee cards are worth their bite for the sign up bonus.

Thanks for the advice. I have been churning for a year and am down with annual fees for the first year to get the SUB but was wondering about having 30+ cards. It is wild that there are even that many different cards not to mention that don't have AFs.

ducky19

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2019, 11:11:31 AM »
Quick question if you don't mind. With so many cards open, aren't the annual fees killing your profit? If you are balancing the AFs with tradelines, what did it look like when your cards were still too young for tradelines?

As Chris said, I also downgrade almost every card to a free, no fee version unless there is clearly a profitable path forward on the annual fee version. I have 9 cards open, 4 of which had AFs that weren't waived the first year. I keep track of all point redemptions and annual fees paid, and monitor my net profit from churning. Banked points don't count if they aren't used yet, and my baseline is if I would've paid cash for everything.

2016 - Present
Dollars Spent: $1875.00
Dollars Made: $8658.54
NET: $6783.54

Not impressive compared to the true churners out there, but generally annual fee cards are worth their bite for the sign up bonus.

Thanks for the advice. I have been churning for a year and am down with annual fees for the first year to get the SUB but was wondering about having 30+ cards. It is wild that there are even that many different cards not to mention that don't have AFs.

There are literally hundreds of cards out there with signup bonuses, you just have to look outside of the big banks. I got a preapproved offer from BBVA for $100 back after $1500 spend. I had to look it up, turns out it's a regional bank in northern AL (I'm in central IL). Not sure why I showed up on their radar, but I don't mind free money.

MyAlterEgoIsTaller

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2019, 11:27:13 AM »
1. It doesn't matter whether your spending on the new card is for business expenses or personal expenses. You just need to meet the minimum spend to get the bonus.

2. This is almost definitely a complete coincidence. Citi did the same thing to me due to inactivity, and they aren't the only company to do so in similar situations. If you want to guarantee that a particular card stay open, be sure the make at least one purchase every 12 months.

3. You shouldn't have any problem being approved by Citi for a new card.

ETA: Sorry I didn't realize that therethere had already answered questions 1 and 2 within the quote. Our answers to all three questions are the same. :)

Thanks to both of you for the answers.  I plan to do some more of this in the coming year.  It seems pretty simple...  there must be some catch....

martyconlonontherun

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2019, 11:30:18 AM »
I haven't done much of this credit card churning, and have a couple questions:

1. I have a legitimate side consulting business, so the part about possibly having to prove the name of the business is fine because it's all registered and has an EIN and all that.  But the card offers seem to have requirements like "$3000 of business expenses in 3 months".  I have virtually no actual business expenses.  What counts as a business expense?  Will I still get the bonus if what I'm charging is household stuff like pet food and snow tires? Yes, any spend has counted in my experience.

2.  I recently applied for a Capital One card and collected the bonus.  Almost immediately after that Citibank closed down one of my longest-held credit cards out of the blue, because it was "inactive" (true, but it's been inactive for years).  Is that normal?  Is it just a coincidence, or did something about opening that other new card trigger their system to examine me and kick me out? This is very likely due to inactivity only, not opening another card. Citi closed my oldest account once I hadn't charged on it for 5 years or so.

3.  Now that Citibank has shut me down for inactivity, should I just open another card with them, to collect a new bonus?  Or is it likely that they won't let me back in?
You'll be able to get a new card and bonus. No worries here either.

Technically, that is not true. The very first T&C is that card can only be used for business purposes. They can't tell if if basketball tickets are for you do go with your buddies or if it is business development. Nor do they really care. If they did have a reason to clawback or cancel your card later, they could dig into that. Highly unlikely though IMO.

Chris @ Saturday Financial

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Re: What are you Churning? - November 2019
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2019, 12:25:36 PM »
I haven't done much of this credit card churning, and have a couple questions:

1. I have a legitimate side consulting business, so the part about possibly having to prove the name of the business is fine because it's all registered and has an EIN and all that.  But the card offers seem to have requirements like "$3000 of business expenses in 3 months".  I have virtually no actual business expenses.  What counts as a business expense?  Will I still get the bonus if what I'm charging is household stuff like pet food and snow tires? Yes, any spend has counted in my experience.

2.  I recently applied for a Capital One card and collected the bonus.  Almost immediately after that Citibank closed down one of my longest-held credit cards out of the blue, because it was "inactive" (true, but it's been inactive for years).  Is that normal?  Is it just a coincidence, or did something about opening that other new card trigger their system to examine me and kick me out? This is very likely due to inactivity only, not opening another card. Citi closed my oldest account once I hadn't charged on it for 5 years or so.

3.  Now that Citibank has shut me down for inactivity, should I just open another card with them, to collect a new bonus?  Or is it likely that they won't let me back in?
You'll be able to get a new card and bonus. No worries here either.

Technically, that is not true. The very first T&C is that card can only be used for business purposes. They can't tell if if basketball tickets are for you do go with your buddies or if it is business development. Nor do they really care. If they did have a reason to clawback or cancel your card later, they could dig into that. Highly unlikely though IMO.

Good to know! I didn't realize that was in the T&C.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!