The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: whywork on June 29, 2018, 07:08:34 PM
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Those who already retired:
What was your networth when you retired? Please exclude home value in this and specify the home value separately
Also please indicate your family size (single, family, family with x kids etc...) and also your age at retirement
If you are relying on pensions, please also post the expected monthly amount
Those not yet retired:
Please indicate the networth at which you plan to retire along with other info above
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Here is my info
Age: 38
Family Size: 4 (wife and 2 kids)
Status: Not yet retired
FIRE Number: 1.3 mill (if retired in US) or 750k (if retired in thailand)
FIRE age: 43 (for US), 39.5 (for thailand)
Pensions: None
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Current plan...
Age: 43
Family Size: 4 (wife and 2 kids)
Status: Not yet retired
FIRE Number: 3.5 mill*
FIRE age: 55 (target)
Pensions: None
But I'm getting somewhat tired of what I do, so it can all change.
*I know, it's not very mustachian, but I'm okay with that.
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We're at 350K right now, and my partner is semi-retiring next week. We were originally going to shoot for around 700K, but I'm starting to think it will be lower, since he likes to do side gigs. We'll probably seriously re-evaluate our situation at 500K.
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51/55
4M
Just signed a 5 year contract
Working for health insurance
Target: Medicare eligibility
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Retired
Net worth (excluding personal home and mortgage on same): ~$2.2M $330K home, $160K mortgage.
2 adults, 1 mentally handicapped child.
Age 60 and 70. (We learned about MMM at 55 and 65, respectively.)
33K SS, 1.5K pension starting in 5 or so years.
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Not retired yet. We have two children. Our plans:
When we are at $2m NW, not including house value or mortgage, DH will retire (around age 58). I will retire when I am fully vested in my pension (age 55...about 3 years after DH retires). I will get $24k/year from the pension starting at 60 as well as retirement healthcare. DH will start taking SS when he is 70 (his family all live long lives...mostly beyond 100). Using a very conservative number, DH will get about $25k/year in SS. I won’t qualify for SS due to the pension.
It’s not very mustachian. We’re going to reevaluate as we get closer to our goals.
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Fired when I was 50 and DW was 46. At that time 2.4M and 4 kids at home. Home was payed for as well and no debt at that time making total NW closer to 2.8M.
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I love the diversity of comments here. Almost FIREd..
- Couple, both 36. Will retire at 36/37 in the beginning of 2017.
- Projected @ the date we pull the plug: $1,825,000
- Not included in the net worth is a small pension that I can also start collecting at 55, 60, or 65. Its worth about $175,000 when I present value it and at this point, but since the company doesn't allow a lump sum I exclude that from our number.
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- Couple, 27/31
- Target: 300k (bare bones) - 400k (comfortable) in today's money.
- Plans: I have a medical condition that seems to be progressive, so at some point I'll likely not be able to work anymore. I want to retire before my body completely gives up. Fiance has a main job and a side job and will eventually want to quit his main job but not his side job. We have separate accounts, so the targets are my targets only. He's saving for retirement, but FIRE is not his priority, so if he's not ready to pull the plug when I am, he'll have to bring in some income, but not much. I could pay for my half of the bills and most of his half and I'd be able to pay all of our bills once the mortgage is paid off (when I'm 54).
- Projected age to retire: somewhere between 40-50.
- Home is almost paid off by then, assuming we don't move. If possible we'd like to move to a more rural location at some point.
- Our social security would be about €750/month each (after taxes) from about the age of 70, assuming this would still exist when we reach that age. This does not seem likely so we don't want to count on it.
- Pension: annuity from our country's version of 401k: €400 gross/month each from the age of around 70.
We will probably be withdrawing quite a lot for the first couple of years, when I'll hopefully still be healthy and we still have a mortgage to pay. After the mortgage is paid off, we'll need less money and once we have access to our annuities and maybe some form of social security we won't have to withdraw anything at all. At this point, it's very difficult to predict if there'll be any kind of social security and how much it will be, hopefully in 15-20 years when I'm ready to pull the plug the government will have thorougly reviewed our current system and will have made some decisions. This will strongly affect our FIRE number.
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Age: 21
Family Size: 1
Status: I just graduated "Saving to $10k" so I guess that's something
FIRE Number: I've calculated some numbers for different styles of life (barebones, current, comfy) as well as different SWR (3%, 3.5%, 4%), they range between €250k and €700k
FIRE age: 40
Pensions: Current rules dictate I get 70% of minimum wage every month starting at age 70 as a reward for not dying, in addition to whatever pension I'll have build up by the time. Calculations don't count on any of it though as the rules will undoubtedly change in the next five decades, I'll probably lower my number the more certainty I get (if that is even possible given my target age). If I assume current rules will simply be kept and inflation adjusted (ha!) then all my expenses will be covered and I'll only need my savings to last to retirement age.
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Age:26
Single
Current Finances: assets around $120,000, debt around $120,000. Networth around zero.
Income:$50k
Savings rate: 70%
Fire number: $750,000
Years to go: 10
Things I need: a raise! Should have one in about 7-8 months which will increase my salary to around $65,000 and increase my savings to around 75-80%.
Things I want before FI: to be debt free besides a mortgage, and I want to own a town house or a condo with payments of $1800 per month or less, plus a roommate who can take care of about $800 of that for me :)
I am planning to fire in a HCOL, but have considered at least extended trips abroad, or extended US slow travel to a) rent out my whole future house and b) to decrease my withdrawal rate c)I can work for 3 months in a fun place (alaska, Hawaii, Etc) and then get COBRA insurance for 18 months. Rinse and repeat as needed.
Will not have any pension.
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Not retired
Networth: between $1M-$2M+ (undecided), no home (renting)
Family size: between 1-5 (undecided)
Age at FIRE: between 35-45 (undecided)
Pensions: SS (amount TBD)
I'm close to my lower numbers so I may FIRE soon then get back to work if plans change.
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Age: 35/36
Family Size: 6 (18,13,4, 3 months)
Status: Not yet retired
FIRE Number: 2.5M
FIRE age: When the youngest is done with college (or high school if the 529 is full), so ~55
Pensions: None
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Age: 40/41
Family Size: 4
Status: Not yet retired
FIRE number: $1.2-1.5M plus house (sell mortgaged house in HCOLA, use proceeds to buy house outright in retirement MCOLA)
FIRE age: Hopefully ~43-44 (actually, hopefully even before then, but it'll take some magic)
Pensions: ~1k/month starting at age 65 + SS.
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Age: 26
Family Size: 1 - single
Status: Not yet retired
FIRE number: bare bones ~ $500k . Comfortable ~ $750k. Could honestly make it work with my current NW of $220k plus my side income gig.
FIRE age: My spreadsheets indicate I will have $500k in the next 5-7 years based on current savings rate and depending on market returns.
Pensions: None
A lot of things could change from now until then including:
- Pursuing my side income more aggressively during working years, reducing time to FIRE. Like I said originally, I could probably just quit today and live off my side hustle while letting my investments grow, although that would certainly not be ideal.
- Starting a family
- Getting significant promotion at current job and making significantly more $, again reducing time to FIRE.
Just hoping for some good market years!
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Hopefully in 8-10 years.
750kNW = Pretty much bare bones.
1mil = ez breezy
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Age: 39
Family Size: 1
Status: not yet retired
Current net worth: $430k
FIRE Number: $1 million-ish ($750k investments/$50k cash/$50k pension/$150k home equity)
FIRE age: 45
Pension: $12,000/year at age 60, indexed to inflation + Social Security at age 67
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Bare bones FIRE: $900,000 @ 38 years of age
FAT FIRE: Prob double- $1.8 million @ 43 years of age
I am 32 and wife is 33, our son is 1 year old
We both have pensions with our employers but can't collect on those until our 50's so I don't even count those. They will provide an additional $2900 per month.
Primary house will be paid off around the same time as our bare bones FIRE plan. We purchased the house when the market was lower and only paid $150,000 so this has helped tremendously.
Only debt is our house at $97,000 3.5% interest. Net worth not including house: $330,000.
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Age: 38/40
Status: Not retired
Net worth: 800k
FI Number: 1 Mil. + house paid off and still working part time remotely
FI Age: Within 5 years (sooner if we moved to a LCOLA)
Penion: None
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Here is my info
Age: 34, DH is 39
Family Size: 3 (1 kid)
Status: Not yet retired
FIRE Number: 1.25 mil (including paid for home valued at $250k)
Current Net worth: $380k
FIRE age: Shooting for 2025 (at age 40 for me and DH at 45)
Pensions: Railroad retirement
DH says he wants to keep working until 2033, as he sees a lot of value in making it to 30 years service for RR retirement, but I suspect when we hit FI, he may change his mind.
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My wife and I retired at 55.
Our net worth was $1.1M in retirement accounts plus a $500K lump sum pension payment.
Our home equity was approx. $600K .
That was three years ago. Our net worth has gone up a little since then.
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Age:69 and 58
When I FIRE'd 3yrs ago at 66 it was:
Minus $7K NW me and $350K Mr. R.
House paid off - value approx $140 plus - Mr. R. still working.
Now it is:
$23K NW me (goal $50K by Dec 2019), plus $10K cash that I'm about to take a two months trip to Europe with. No debt.
$500K Mr. R. - planning to retire around 62.
We are planning/hoping to grow the overall stash to at least $600K by the time he retires, more if we get lucky.
We consider ourselves FI because I have an annual income of 36K/38K (after paying for health insurance and taxes) and he has just over $500K in his stash plus EF cash at present.
House paid for - only debt a zero % car loan with well under $5K left. He likes his job and I like being retired.
Goal: 4 years to go until Mr. R. retires at 62. Expected combined annual income: $60K (his SS + my annual income) plus $600K retirement account and a paid for home at $140K+.
Pension: me - yes. - Mr. R. - no.
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47/46
2 kids
Not yet retired
Fire number $2.5 mill
Current stash $2.2 mill
Fire age: no later than 55
Wife has pension.
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51/49
I planned on retiring a year ago but employer made me a great offer to go down to 2 days per week, so I am doing that likely for another 2 years.
Stash is $1.6 m plus wife will have a $42k pension in 2 years
Home is paid for and worth about $600k
Our annual cash spend including big vacation spends is about $75k/year
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Wow, the wide distribution on this thread is really interesting.
Age: me 33, husband 35
Family: 4 (2 adults, 2 young kids)
Status: Not yet retired, though I am a SAHM
FIRE Number: 2.7 to 3 mil (combination of investable assets and real estate, not including primary residence)
FIRE age: in 4 years? unsure at the moment, depends on how our portfolio performs and if husband still wants to work after we hit our number
Pension: none
Currently our net worth is around 2.3 mil not counting primary residence. Hopefully when we FIRE we'll be able to sell our house and use the proceeds to buy something in cash in a LCOL area. A lot will depend on if we think we can find a good location for our kids and if our autistic son still needs lots of therapies (he's been making really great progress lately). I have a work from home freelance job that brings in on average $1000 per month, probably more if I could work more hours.
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Wow these numbers are rather large!
Age 30
Family of 4
Status not yet
Fire number: 325k lean and 650 fat
Fire age: not sure, thinking of taking a mini retirement along the way
Current nw: 245k, 40k is 2 rental properties, one we live in.
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Age 53
Couple (wife will work 5-7 more years than me)
I will FIRE in 10 months
NW: as a couple, it's currently @$1.8mil, with $1.2 of it invested;
@$800k of which is my 401k, which I will have immediate, penalty-free access to;
I also have a pension that is worth about $1.5mil if you used the 4% SWR to value it
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Age: 31
Family Size: 3 (wife and 1 kid almost here) plan to have 2 when we FIRE
Status: Not yet retired
FIRE Number: 2 mill
FIRE age: 37
Pensions: None
Current NW no house- 750k
Current NW with house - 950k
Planning to go to 32 hour weeks on birth of new baby.
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Age: 30 (husband is 35)
Family Size: 2 (childfree! woo!)
Status: Not retired
FIRE Number: $1.5M + paid off residence (will move to LCOL area)
Current Net worth: $195k savings + $46k home equity
FIRE age: Somewhere between 42 and 45 unless I lose my shit and try to CoastFI or BaristaFI until normal retirement age
Pensions: None. Wah wah.
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Age: 45
Family Size: 1
Status: Any day now
FIRE Number: $2.75
FIRE age: 45? 46?
Pensions: $1100/mo at age 65
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Age: 46
Family Size: 1
Status: not retired yet. Thinkin I have 18 months to go
FIRE Number: $2mil including lump sum pension of 250k
FIRE age: 48
Pensions: $650/mo at age 65
Paid for 500k house in HCOL area
currently at 1.5m in 401k / vanguard after tax
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This thread is a sign of times ... so many FIRE numbers above $1.5m excluding a paid off house!
This is enough to basically have a FIRED income of $60,000 forever and still keep growing your stash under literally all conditions.
I am a hypocrite because I will want to do this too, but damn, can any of us really call ourselves mustachian anymore?
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This thread is a sign of times ... so many FIRE numbers above $1.5m excluding a paid off house!
This is enough to basically have a FIRED income of $60,000 forever and still keep growing your stash under literally all conditions.
I am a hypocrite because I will want to do this too, but damn, can any of us really call ourselves mustachian anymore?
We did it first around a $700,000 net worth. My wife retired from her veterinary practice and moved with me while I pursued a leadership opportunity I thought I always wanted and set a new date. The new opportunity has paid better than I could ever imagine, but the original nest egg is still responsible for the majority of our net worth.
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Yes also pete didn't retire he went to a house building side hustle with the equivalent of a 1MM today albeit with a paid for house. Then started the blog. Now he bought a place to collaborate. I'd call him anything but retired. His wife makes soaps. I'm not trying to be the retirement police but to compare what Pete did to the numbers people post here I'd say are quite equivalent. We just may enjoy our original jobs more than he and his wife do.
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Yes also pete didn't retire he went to a house building side hustle with the equivalent of a 1MM today albeit with a paid for house. Then started the blog. Now he bought a place to collaborate. I'd call him anything but retired. His wife makes soaps. I'm not trying to be the retirement police but to compare what Pete did to the numbers people post here I'd say are quite equivalent. We just may enjoy our original jobs more than he and his wife do.
+1!
I do believe that $600,000 or so is the "freedom" number for most people. If you can hit that before 40, just make enough money to cover living expenses and let the investments ride. Hopefully that money comes from a hobby and not painful work
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Age: 42
Family Size: 4 (51, 42, 12, 11)
Status: Not yet retired, but planning to leave high paying career over the next 3-6 months. Husband will plan to continue. I will likely find something flexible/part time, after taking time off altogether.
FIRE Number: Currently just over $2M.
FIRE age: Soon
Pensions: No pensions
We're in a HCOL, and our house (not included in above) is supposedly worth about $1.5M more than we owe. We haven't decided where we'll move once my husband has decided to stop working, but it's unlikely to be in our current extremely HCOL.
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This thread is a sign of times ... so many FIRE numbers above $1.5m excluding a paid off house!
This is enough to basically have a FIRED income of $60,000 forever and still keep growing your stash under literally all conditions.
I am a hypocrite because I will want to do this too, but damn, can any of us really call ourselves mustachian anymore?
Pete makes a ton of money and has a huge net worth...
I don’t think a large ‘stache means anything in and of itself.
For those of us, like Pete, who are extremely well paid for work/part time work/side hustles that we enjoy and spend very little, a huge ‘stache is inevitable. Just because I’ll likely end up with a ‘stache that could support a big annual spend doesn’t mean I’ll be spending that much.
It’s my Mustachianism that’s making me rich, not the other way around.
But FIRE number is when you're financially independent, not an amount of money you just happen to accumulate. If you only need $800k but reach $1.5M because you love your work then your number is $800k. I don't think that many people here love their work, they mostly fear needing the money or are not mustachian, IMO
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Age: 52
Family Size: Single, grown children
Status: Working
FIRE Number: $2.5m + house
FIRE age: In 3 weeks
Pensions: No age pension for me
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Age: 26
Size of Household: 2
status: just starting out
FIRE number at current expenses: 400K
FIRE Age: not thinking about it, so much could change. Just gonna save like a motherfucker for now
Current stash: 33k and rising quickly (to me)
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Age 50. Not FIRE'd yet.
Net worth is 2 million not including paid off house we're living in. We just bought a second home for retirement in Florida, we will have a mortgage of 190K. We've paid 20 percent down and all closing costs. Working a few more years to build cash and pay down the new mortgage a bit. Would probably FIRE within a year if we had single payer health care. Have to stick with employers plan till we see what congress does with health care. Hope to reduce expenses more in the next few years. If we reach liquid net worth of 2.5 million we'll likely FIRE and take our chances with health care.
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But FIRE number is when you're financially independent, not an amount of money you just happen to accumulate. If you only need $800k but reach $1.5M because you love your work then your number is $800k. I don't think that many people here love their work, they mostly fear needing the money or are not mustachian, IMO
I disagree with this.
Your FI number is when you are Financially Independent.
Your FIRE number is when you are Financially Independent & Retired Early (or plan to).
They very well can be different numbers. Beyond that the question was What's your networth when you FIRE'd (or plan to). That is not the same as the question of what is your FI number. There are several on here that even if they plan to FIRE there is a different milestone (not $ related) they are aiming for before they FIRE. I don't particularly want to FIRE with kids still in the house and my husband has a lifelong auto immune disease that requires us to pay very close attention to insurance (or amass a lot more money).
I would edit your statement to this:
If you only need $800k but reach $1.5M before you FIRE because you love your work then your FI number is $800k but your FIRE number is $1.5M.
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Age: 36
Family Size: 3 (married, one kid)
Status: Working (going down to part-time, 4 days/wk as of this month)
FIRE Number: 1.5M
FIRE age: Expected @ 38 (2020)
Pensions: None
If DW and I both got sick of work tomorrow, I estimate that we could pull off a bare-bones FIRE at 1.25M, which we're nearly at. 1.5M should be enough to support us at our current lifestyle. Anything above that would allow for either fatFIRE or a heftier donor-advised fund with more charitable giving. See my journal for the calculations.
Our 2020 plan depends heavily on what happens with health care. If the individual insurance market is in a state of collapse, I may defer RE and ask to cut down to 3 days/wk, just so I can keep working for the insurance.
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My age: 37
My soon to be wife's age: 33
Current NW: Around $300k
FIRE goal: $500k-$600k w/ annual rental income of $10k.
We think we'll hit that in around three to five years.
No rugrats.
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Age: 31
Family size: Soon to be 2
Soon to be wife's age: 30
Current NW: $195k (excluding home equity)
Current NW: $350k (including equity in primary and rental)
Fire Goal: $900,000 (excluding home equity)
Hoping to hit this by 40
Figures exclude wife's NW (around $0 anyway), until we're married--her savings are offset by student loan balance.
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Our 2020 plan depends heavily on what happens with health care. If the individual insurance market is in a state of collapse, I may defer RE and ask to cut down to 3 days/wk, just so I can keep working for the insurance.
Re: higher FIRE numbers, FireLane hit on why mine are so high. I estimate we will only need $30k/year to actually live on if we went to settle in the tiny town in NC that most of my family lives in. But taxes (federal, state, and property), healthcare, and real estate are so variable both geographically and over time that I want a very comfortable amount in the bank before I pull the plug. We're a long way out (farthest behind on the thread maybe... woo?) and not completely sure where we want to live long-term. We plan to discover this magical happy place through post-FIRE travel to a short list of wildly diverse places.
Also, my husband is very adamant about not having to work for pay another day in his life after FIRE. I'm much more open to a part-time job, but it would be nice not to NEED one.
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This thread is a sign of times ... so many FIRE numbers above $1.5m excluding a paid off house!
This is enough to basically have a FIRED income of $60,000 forever and still keep growing your stash under literally all conditions.
I am a hypocrite because I will want to do this too, but damn, can any of us really call ourselves mustachian anymore?
We are in very uncertain times. All the social crash nets are under the threat of possible bankruptcy. In a not so distant future we could lose Social Security and Medicare. If not lost completely it could drastically change where benefits aren't available till 70 or even 75 years old. We could lose the ACA and see health insurance costs skyrocket for those with preexisting conditions. The firehose of employment income and employers benefits are difficult to give up. The party in charge has come right out and told you they intend to make cuts. You have to take them serious.
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Net worth is irrelevant since net worth includes my home.
My stash is currently and will hopefully continue to be in the $1.3M to $1.4M range a year from now when I plan to FIRE.
Single, own my home, living alone. That should be enough to cover ~$1600/mo bare bones expenses and over $2400/mo discretionary spending.
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Perhaps I did not make myself clear because I'm thinking the point I was making has been missed. If you need the additional safety blanket, fine, that's ok*. I'm not focussed on the stash size, I'm focussed on the income it generates to support your spending.
This thread is a sign of times ... so many FIRE numbers above $1.5m excluding a paid off house!
This is enough to basically have a FIRED income of $60,000 forever and still keep growing your stash under literally all conditions.
I am a hypocrite because I will want to do this too, but damn, can any of us really call ourselves mustachian anymore?
We are in very uncertain times. All the social crash nets are under the threat of possible bankruptcy. In a not so distant future we could lose Social Security and Medicare. If not lost completely it could drastically change where benefits aren't available till 70 or even 75 years old. We could lose the ACA and see health insurance costs skyrocket for those with preexisting conditions. The firehose of employment income and employers benefits are difficult to give up. The party in charge has come right out and told you they intend to make cuts. You have to take them serious.
Ok further up people were talking about Pete and IRP and him having buckets loads more money now and all that shit.
Forget about all that.
The original premise of the blog is "MMM and Mrs MMM FIRED with a spending budget of $24,000 a year, this is how we did it"
Net worth is irrelevant since net worth includes my home.
My stash is currently and will hopefully continue to be in the $1.3M to $1.4M range a year from now when I plan to FIRE.
Single, own my home, living alone. That should be enough to cover ~$1600/mo bare bones expenses and over $2400/mo discretionary spending.
@DreamFIRE I'm going to pick on you by quoting this** because you seem typical of this thread in needing $1.4m which supports spending of $56,000 a year (not the $48,000 you mention, and is well excess of the <$20,000 bare bones FIRE stash you need).
Now are you all saying that $24,000 is impossible to do in this day and age? You need $1.4 x 4% = $56,000 a year to make this work and feel comfortable to leave the corporate cubicles? Is it no longer possible to optimise, to hack, to minimise expenses? Is it no longer desirable to do so? Do you not want to do so in order to bring FIRE forward, or provide you with additional margin of safety?
If $56,000 is your number, then fine. But if MMM were reading this he'd be telling you $56,000 is an exploding volcano of wastefulness worth of spending.
* & ** Note I already called myself a hypocrite by needing more so this applies to me too.
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Perhaps I did not make myself clear because I'm thinking the point I was making has been missed. If you need the additional safety blanket, fine, that's ok*. I'm not focussed on the stash size, I'm focussed on the income it generates to support your spending.
This thread is a sign of times ... so many FIRE numbers above $1.5m excluding a paid off house!
This is enough to basically have a FIRED income of $60,000 forever and still keep growing your stash under literally all conditions.
I am a hypocrite because I will want to do this too, but damn, can any of us really call ourselves mustachian anymore?
We are in very uncertain times. All the social crash nets are under the threat of possible bankruptcy. In a not so distant future we could lose Social Security and Medicare. If not lost completely it could drastically change where benefits aren't available till 70 or even 75 years old. We could lose the ACA and see health insurance costs skyrocket for those with preexisting conditions. The firehose of employment income and employers benefits are difficult to give up. The party in charge has come right out and told you they intend to make cuts. You have to take them serious.
Ok further up people were talking about Pete and IRP and him having buckets loads more money now and all that shit.
Forget about all that.
The original premise of the blog is "MMM and Mrs MMM FIRED with a spending budget of $24,000 a year, this is how we did it"
Net worth is irrelevant since net worth includes my home.
My stash is currently and will hopefully continue to be in the $1.3M to $1.4M range a year from now when I plan to FIRE.
Single, own my home, living alone. That should be enough to cover ~$1600/mo bare bones expenses and over $2400/mo discretionary spending.
@DreamFIRE I'm going to pick on you by quoting this** because you seem typical of this thread in needing $1.4m which supports spending of $56,000 a year (not the $48,000 you mention, and is well excess of the <$20,000 bare bones FIRE stash you need).
Now are you all saying that $24,000 is impossible to do in this day and age? You need $1.4 x 4% = $56,000 a year to make this work and feel comfortable to leave the corporate cubicles? Is it no longer possible to optimise, to hack, to minimise expenses? Is it no longer desirable to do so? Do you not want to do so in order to bring FIRE forward, or provide you with additional margin of safety?
If $56,000 is your number, then fine. But if MMM were reading this he'd be telling you $56,000 is an exploding volcano of wastefulness worth of spending.
* & ** Note I already called myself a hypocrite by needing more so this applies to me too.
Well sure. The tone of the forum has shifted. It used to be about optimizing your relationship between money and happiness. Now it's about FIRE. One is a process the other a goal. People forgot to focus on the process.
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This thread is a sign of times ... so many FIRE numbers above $1.5m excluding a paid off house!
This is enough to basically have a FIRED income of $60,000 forever and still keep growing your stash under literally all conditions.
I am a hypocrite because I will want to do this too, but damn, can any of us really call ourselves mustachian anymore?
Pete makes a ton of money and has a huge net worth...
I don’t think a large ‘stache means anything in and of itself.
For those of us, like Pete, who are extremely well paid for work/part time work/side hustles that we enjoy and spend very little, a huge ‘stache is inevitable. Just because I’ll likely end up with a ‘stache that could support a big annual spend doesn’t mean I’ll be spending that much.
It’s my Mustachianism that’s making me rich, not the other way around.
But FIRE number is when you're financially independent, not an amount of money you just happen to accumulate. If you only need $800k but reach $1.5M because you love your work then your number is $800k. I don't think that many people here love their work, they mostly fear needing the money or are not mustachian, IMO
incorrect you're describing an FI number the RE part is when you quit.
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This thread is a sign of times ... so many FIRE numbers above $1.5m excluding a paid off house!
This is enough to basically have a FIRED income of $60,000 forever and still keep growing your stash under literally all conditions.
I am a hypocrite because I will want to do this too, but damn, can any of us really call ourselves mustachian anymore?
Pete makes a ton of money and has a huge net worth...
I don’t think a large ‘stache means anything in and of itself.
For those of us, like Pete, who are extremely well paid for work/part time work/side hustles that we enjoy and spend very little, a huge ‘stache is inevitable. Just because I’ll likely end up with a ‘stache that could support a big annual spend doesn’t mean I’ll be spending that much.
It’s my Mustachianism that’s making me rich, not the other way around.
But FIRE number is when you're financially independent, not an amount of money you just happen to accumulate. If you only need $800k but reach $1.5M because you love your work then your number is $800k. I don't think that many people here love their work, they mostly fear needing the money or are not mustachian, IMO
True. Pete's NW when he FIREd was around $600K plus a paid off house. That doesn't change whether he earns blog money or wins the lotto. My NW when I FIREd years ago is different than it is now but that doesn't change my original NW when I became FI and decided to RE (in true IRP non-working fashion).
But I agree with@marty998, seems like a lot of people here need a lot of money before they pull the plug
ETA: this recent thread highlights that fear of stopping work and needing a huge stash https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/a-cure-for-last-mile-itis/?topicseen
pete was closer to 800k when he fired which is 1MM today.
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Age: 49
Family size: 4 (20 year old with autism and 14 year old)
Wife's age: 50
Current NW: ~$500K
FIREd 15 June 18
One big caveat, I retired from the military, have a very nice pension, relatively cheap healthcare and I can pass on my GI bill for 4 years of college to the 14 year old. These three things make retirement much easier for me at this stage. Don't call the IRP, but I plan to work part time and we've set up a Roth ladder that I can start drawing from in 2020.
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Age: 38
Family Size: Fiance and Myself
Status: Not yet retired
Current NW: $501k
FIRE Number: $900k based on current spending (some geographical arbitrage), ultimately want to get to $1.2M for peace of mind.
FIRE age: 31/35 respectively
Pensions: None
Even though we are ~4 years out from that goal, we plan on many breaks between now and then. Specifically 4 months off in 2019 and 9 months in 2020.
With spending that low, even working 2 days a week for 8 hours would cover 2/3rds of our spending, or provide for additional luxuries as we desire them.
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The never earn again people tend to feel the need for massive cushions, which is understandable. Just because their ‘stache is 2M doesn’t mean they plan to spend 80K per year. You simply cannot jump to that conclusion. They may just not feel secure leaving paid work FOREVER without a HUGE safety net.
+1
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The never earn again people tend to feel the need for massive cushions, which is understandable. Just because their ‘stache is 2M doesn’t mean they plan to spend 80K per year. You simply cannot jump to that conclusion. They may just not feel secure leaving paid work FOREVER without a HUGE safety net.
+1
I'm one of those with a "massive" cushion. I'm hoping to do some slow travel with a budget around $100/day or $36,500 per year. I want the extra cushion because:
1) There are a few bucket list things I want to do that cost much more than $100/day - for example, I booked an Antarctica trip @ $12K for late 2019
2) I went thru the recession and know easy come, easy go. My stache at 1/2 is not impressive
3) I don't want to feel broke in years I need/want a splurge. This year my car broke down and it was no sweat to buy a new Transit Connect - and I'm loving the van camping!
4) the big mystery of health care - I'm nearing the age where it gets more expensive but before Medicare. I'm considering an international plan, but this involves underwriting & pre ex so need to stay healthy. If the mandate comes back, this is out and big bucks back in unless I can stay out of the country for 330, not something I can commit with aging parents.
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We are a long way out from FIRE
Age: mid-30s
Family Size: spouse and kids
Status: Not yet retired
Current NW: $1.3M (including rental property but not primary residence, about $970k investments)
FIRE Number: $3M (after the kids graduate from college it [might be, depending on future healthcare costs] will be less, but that is the minimum we would need today to quit and still be certain we could make a significant contribution to their college, which is a priority for us).
FIRE age: mid-50s
Pensions: Possibly, depending on the solvency of the gov't when I am 60.
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The original premise of the blog is "MMM and Mrs MMM FIRED with a spending budget of $24,000 a year, this is how we did it"
Net worth is irrelevant since net worth includes my home.
My stash is currently and will hopefully continue to be in the $1.3M to $1.4M range a year from now when I plan to FIRE.
Single, own my home, living alone. That should be enough to cover ~$1600/mo bare bones expenses and over $2400/mo discretionary spending.
@DreamFIRE I'm going to pick on you by quoting this** because you seem typical of this thread in needing $1.4m which supports spending of $56,000 a year (not the $48,000 you mention, and is well excess of the <$20,000 bare bones FIRE stash you need).
But that's not what I said. I said I currently have in the range of $1.3 to $1.4 and hope to continue to have that when I FIRE. That basically means that's where I already am, and I hope I don't lose money over the next year. That seems reasonable. That's not the same as "need", and I gave that full range, not specifically $1.4M. If the stock market returns zero over the next year, my contributions alone should get to the upper half of that range. Again, that doesn't mean I "need". And I should mention my FIRE date of next year is not related so much to a stash target since I've already hit that, but to other things, just as Bateaux mentioned as well as personal things.
On the expense side, I didn't say $48,000 would be the total income I would need. I said my stash should cover ~$1600/mo bare bones (notice the ~, which means it could be more or less, not exactly $1600 as you implied) and OVER $2400/mo discretionary (note the word "over", not exactly $2400 as you were implying that I stated.) And when I add over $2400/mo discretionary spending to my budget, my tax rate will increase, so I'll also have to withdraw more to pay taxes as well. Factor in a slightly lower WR of 3.9% due to investment expenses, and $1.3M is a reasonable stash figure using the 4% rule, but I could cut back some on the discretionary spending if needed, so I don't feel I need a big cushion beyond the option of cutting back if needed, despite all the talk about today's high stock valuations, CAPE10, and calls of the pending recession that some may use to justify a larger stash.
Now are you all saying that $24,000 is impossible to do in this day and age? You need $1.4 x 4% = $56,000 a year to make this work and feel comfortable to leave the corporate cubicles? Is it no longer possible to optimise, to hack, to minimise expenses? Is it no longer desirable to do so? Do you not want to do so in order to bring FIRE forward, or provide you with additional margin of safety?
With ACA subsidies, $24K would be fairly easy for me, as that's about $4K more than I estimate my bare bones FIRE expenses to be. Fortunately, I've got a big enough stash that I can do some travel and explore more entertainment options during FIRE that I didn't have time to do during my career. I've done very little traveling in my life, and maintained a very high savings rate during my career well before I ever heard of MMM, so when I FIRE, I will finally have the chance to do things I've had little opportunity to do over my working careeer.
Note - I do not work in a corporate or any other type of cubicle. I used to work in a shared office with one or two others over the years, but last year, I finally got my own office, the type with real walls to the ceiling and a door. It's quite peaceful. My overtime is way down, my workload is better than it's ever been, I'm not having to train any other staff, and I work with very little supervision. It's by far the best I've had it in 17 years on this job, so it feels like exactly the worst time to leave in that respect. If I was stuck in a cubicle, chained to my desk, pushing papers, operating as a corporate drone, running the hamster wheel, or bored out of my mind, then I would certainly feel more of an urgency to leave. I don't have a family at home waiting for me, so there's that, too.
If $56,000 is your number, then fine. But if MMM were reading this he'd be telling you $56,000 is an exploding volcano of wastefulness worth of spending.
I'm actually planning about $50K/yr spending during FIRE, but then taxes and investment expenses bring that up closer to $52K/yr that needs to be funded from the stash. So, $1.3M at the low end of my stash range is just right, while $1.4M is just an added cushion, but I don't plan to draw extra from the stash beyond what I just mentioned. It would just be a cushion. Also, I have no pensions in my future, although I hope to get SS benefits after 15 years of FIRE.
I'm not FIRED yet, and my actual spending through the first 6 months of this year is averaging less than $1400/mo. I have very low cost healthcare costs while working. I haven't done any traveling in years. I'm not sure how that compares with MMM.
Edit: Besides the uncertainty of ACA/healthcare, another big wild card for me is the potential of relocating sometime after I FIRE, which would involve selling my house in my somewhat LCOL area and relocating to another area, which may be not be as LCOL, or I might actually be able to cut my living costs by scaling down in another LCOL area. A smaller wild card is working part time for a while will not be out of the question, although I wouldn't want to do it long term - maybe a year.
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^ @marty998 is from Australia and may not realize that those in the US may need to pay $20K or more a year for health insurance and coverage if the ACA dies or, in some cases, even if it doesn't but premiums increase as well as out of pocket costs. Those of us who can FIRE on lower amounts generally have found a way to have lower cost or free medical. So even if we don't need that extra cushion now, we may in the future.
What does MMM pay for health insurance? Anyone know?
This is true - $20k for healthcare sounds insane for me. Thank you, I forget this sometimes when I start mouthing off here. Having said that, I am curious to know if there is any consumer organisation/movement/regulator in your country looking at this. I appreciate the worship of the almighty free market reigns supreme, but if I invoke the buzzword "disruption", surely the healthcare industry is ripe for it? Monopolistic excess profits simply can't last that long in a pure* free market.
I believe MMM "self-insures" - IIRC he said in a blog post he is comfortable taking the risk given his family does not have any chronic conditions or ongoing health needs.
* probably where the problem lies.
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When I FIRE, I want to be confident that the ACA will be in operation with subsidies for years to come, so hopefully we'll see democrats take control of one of the chambers of Congress with the results of the Nov. election. That should stop any other attempts by the republicans to gut or repeal ACA from being successful.
The $1.3M stash assumes I'll get ACA subsidies, otherwise, I'll need a bigger stash.
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50ish
Family Size: 4
NW: $3M
Not retired yet. No target number, but target age is 62/3.
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Ages: 51/50
Family: 1 kid (10)
Status: Not retired
NW: $1.3 M
House: owe $340K on $750K house
Pensions: $140K/year
FIRE dates: 2020 (spouse)...2022 (me)
Spouse will have military pension so health care shouldn't be an issue...we also have 2 years of GI Bill that will transfer to kid. Guess we could already FIRE but spouse is finishing up on military obligations.
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I'm glad to see some other less than 1 millions posting. It convinced me to post.
Age: 36 me, 39 DH
Family size: 2
Current NW: $668k (As of Q2 2018)
House will be paid off before FIRE. Worth between 80k and 110k. We don't plan to move so never used in our numbers.
Fire Goal is actually a date, the day DH turns 40, so May 2019, estimated stash: $750,000+.
That is all from investments, no property, no rentals, no assets, no pensions, no inheritance, no other special money generating circumstances.
We also have no intention of exchanging time for money any time in the future. No side hustles, no business plans, no blogs.
Our cushion is the ability to adjust our spending and we can do this because we kept our core expenses down. Since it is being discussed our range is 24k to 36k per year, with the goal being around 30k until we pass the sequence of returns risk peak.
This plan is higher risk than most seem to be willing to take, but we are done sitting in offices thinking about what we would be doing if we weren't sitting in offices. We decided ANYTHING else we could be doing would be better, even if it involves spending less money in the down years.
LV
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Ages: 49 me, 56 DH, 16 DD
Current NW - $1.1M (not including primary residence and $75k for college after retirement)
NW at retirement - $1.2M (not including primary residence and $75k for college after retirement)
Pensions - none, but SS calculations show $20k each at 67
DD will be entering her sophomore year summer of 2020, retirement date is April 2020. We're planning on selling everything and seeing the US in an RV for a couple years so I deducted the paid off value of my current home which is $350k. I'd also like to spend a couple years slow traveling the world so house purchase could be put off. No clue where we will live. No problem to work part time for luxuries and extra $ for health insurance, both our jobs right now are soul sucking. We have a lot of ideas on ways we could earn extra that we would enjoy so at this point if one (or both) of us lost our jobs, we'd be done earlier. SS is low, but we didn't work at all for a couple years when our daughter was young and spent 14 years in a resort area working only winters and summers.
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I would like to explain how some people may choose a much higher NW to fire. I will use us as an example.
We prefer to stay in this higher cost of living area to take care of my parents. That a one is running us about 20k/yr. We prefer to pay for college and maybe grad school $250k. We love to travel and our travel budget is our largest expense $30k/yr. We do some mild travel hacking and hope to cut this expense lower when we FIRE. If we will be spending that much money we will likely be needing to buy health insurance since we are out of subsidy range as well as pay for the deductible $20k/yr. As you can see we haven't even bought groceries or spent money on heating our home and already need a stash of $2 million. We are planning on building a bit of a cushion as well to allow for some slow lifestyle creep as well as requiring to purchase assistance as we age. Having $2.5 million seams reasonable compared to our income and our age.
Sure we can travel less and force my parents to relocate, but if we are young, don't hate our work, and can work part time, then why not go for the larger stache? If we were sitting in soul sucking cubicles every day, we would have FIRED a long time ago.
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This thread is a sign of times ... so many FIRE numbers above $1.5m excluding a paid off house!
This is enough to basically have a FIRED income of $60,000 forever and still keep growing your stash under literally all conditions.
I am a hypocrite because I will want to do this too, but damn, can any of us really call ourselves mustachian anymore?
I wonder if it's a sign most responders live in HCOL areas?
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...Now, like Pete, I'm ultimately more profitable since quitting my job and just focusing on living my best life.
Pete's arbitrary FI number is actually virtually irrelevant in the big picture of his finances. It was just a security blanket that allowed him to finally take the jump and live his best life.
This is similar to me. I left a job to do my own thing. I have a good financial foundation and can focus more on passions.
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I'm in a bad/good place.
My NW is negative 20K but it's increasing by around 3500/month right now.
I receive a military retirement/pension of about 4500/month - paying now, not at retirement age
I'm hoping to quit my day job around October 2019 when some of our financed items are paid off and letting me side-gig selling coffee take over and maybe grow that into a full-blown coffee shop.
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I'm glad to see some other less than 1 millions posting. It convinced me to post.
Age: 36 me, 39 DH
Family size: 2
Current NW: $668k (As of Q2 2018)
House will be paid off before FIRE. Worth between 80k and 110k. We don't plan to move so never used in our numbers.
Fire Goal is actually a date, the day DH turns 40, so May 2019, estimated stash: $750,000+.
That is all from investments, no property, no rentals, no assets, no pensions, no inheritance, no other special money generating circumstances.
We also have no intention of exchanging time for money any time in the future. No side hustles, no business plans, no blogs.
Our cushion is the ability to adjust our spending and we can do this because we kept our core expenses down. Since it is being discussed our range is 24k to 36k per year, with the goal being around 30k until we pass the sequence of returns risk peak.
This plan is higher risk than most seem to be willing to take, but we are done sitting in offices thinking about what we would be doing if we weren't sitting in offices. We decided ANYTHING else we could be doing would be better, even if it involves spending less money in the down years.
LV
I'm glad you posted. Thank you!
It's good to see a range, and there's no hard and fast rule about what is right. It's cool to see what you guys are planning to do. =-)
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I'm glad to see some other less than 1 millions posting. It convinced me to post.
Age: 36 me, 39 DH
Family size: 2
Current NW: $668k (As of Q2 2018)
House will be paid off before FIRE. Worth between 80k and 110k. We don't plan to move so never used in our numbers.
Fire Goal is actually a date, the day DH turns 40, so May 2019, estimated stash: $750,000+.
That is all from investments, no property, no rentals, no assets, no pensions, no inheritance, no other special money generating circumstances.
We also have no intention of exchanging time for money any time in the future. No side hustles, no business plans, no blogs.
Our cushion is the ability to adjust our spending and we can do this because we kept our core expenses down. Since it is being discussed our range is 24k to 36k per year, with the goal being around 30k until we pass the sequence of returns risk peak.
This plan is higher risk than most seem to be willing to take, but we are done sitting in offices thinking about what we would be doing if we weren't sitting in offices. We decided ANYTHING else we could be doing would be better, even if it involves spending less money in the down years.
LV
I'm glad you posted. Thank you!
It's good to see a range, and there's no hard and fast rule about what is right. It's cool to see what you guys are planning to do. =-)
:)
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Another 'skinnier' stash report:
Us: 51 and 51 y.o., FIREing early 2019.
Family size: 4 (kids are 15 and 12)
Stash: $760k invested plus $150k in college 529 plans = $910k.
House is paid off and not included in these figures. We are in a high real-estate value area.
So our retirement stash is $760k, which will hopefully throw off $30k per year for us, which meets our needs. I have a side gig for a little cushion post FIRE, but (a) it's not guaranteed, and (b) we could live without it.
Good to see a few others that are planning to take the leap without a million plus invested.
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Age: 40 & 36
Family Size: 3 (1 kid)
Status: Net Worth of 730K
FIRE Number: 1.5 million*
FIRE age: 48 & 44 (8 more years)
Pensions: None
* We could probably FIRE on less than 1.5 million, but my current job is super easy, fun and rewarding. I teach community college. I work 30 hours/week, about 8 months/year. I've recently lost some motivation to hurry up and FIRE. I am going to take my time and enjoy the ride.
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Age: 52/53
Family Size: 2 (spouse)
Status: FIRED 02/03/2020
NW: $1.7m
RE value: $325k
FIRE Number: $1.6m
FIRE age: 52/53
Pensions: $45k/yr @ 67yo
SSA: $40k/yr @ 67yo
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Age: early 30s
Family: 1 (excluding girlfriend and dog)
Status: Not retired
NW: $240k
House: owe $180K on $230K house
FIRE number: $1.5m ...ish
FIRE age: Late 40s or early 50s; so much can and will change by then that it's pointless to pinpoint it exactly
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Ages 58 and 53. My husband lost his job at 53 shortly after I retired. Couldn’t find another one. Home paid for worth 350k. 2 pensions that together equal 39k. 8 years later with raises they are 44k. We each will get 2 small SS’s which will give us another 12k/year. We only had 100k savings largely due to 2 expensive divorces between us. Both of us continue to make money between consulting and teaching.
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Even if you accept that most families can live comfortably on, say, USD $60k a year (which would translate to a stash of US $1.5m), it's easy to understand why some would want a much bigger stash. It could come down to any of the following:
- Higher cost of living in other countries
- Higher taxes, or higher taxes on certain things. For example, here in Australia if my yearly passive income was AU $90k a year (=USD $60k a year) I would be forced to pay $1.5k in private health insurance and nearly $2k in mandatory healthcare levy, plus council rates of ~$1,000 a year on my fairly modest (median-priced) home, plus land tax of ~$1,000 a year on my land owned, plus income tax of about $20k a year, meaning my passive expenses alone are over $25k a year. That's not including things like utilities.
- A conservative bent. The 4% rule isn't foolproof and for those of us retiring in our 30s or 40s with a life expectancy in our 80s, it doesn't necessarily translate well over a 40-50 year time span.
- Enjoying our work. I don't greatly enjoy my work, but I'm starting to enjoy it a little more now that I'm no longer an entry level plodder. From what I can see, those at the top of their fields usually have a lot of perks, status and benefits that plodders don't have. Don't get me wrong, I don't care about the status, per se. But it sure as hell brings in more lucrative work and better opportunities, at least in my field, which I suspect would lead to an easier and more rewarding working life.
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Even if you accept that most families can live comfortably on, say, USD $60k a year (which would translate to a stash of US $1.5m), it's easy to understand why some would want a much bigger stash. It could come down to any of the following:
- Higher cost of living in other countries
- Higher taxes, or higher taxes on certain things. For example, here in Australia if my yearly passive income was AU $90k a year (=USD $60k a year) I would be forced to pay $1.5k in private health insurance and nearly $2k in mandatory healthcare levy, plus council rates of ~$1,000 a year on my fairly modest (median-priced) home, plus land tax of ~$1,000 a year on my land owned, plus income tax of about $20k a year, meaning my passive expenses alone are over $25k a year. That's not including things like utilities.
- A conservative bent. The 4% rule isn't foolproof and for those of us retiring in our 30s or 40s with a life expectancy in our 80s, it doesn't necessarily translate well over a 40-50 year time span.
- Enjoying our work. I don't greatly enjoy my work, but I'm starting to enjoy it a little more now that I'm no longer an entry level plodder. From what I can see, those at the top of their fields usually have a lot of perks, status and benefits that plodders don't have. Don't get me wrong, I don't care about the status, per se. But it sure as hell brings in more lucrative work and better opportunities, at least in my field, which I suspect would lead to an easier and more rewarding working life.
I don’t understand this. You, as an Australian, wouldn’t need $90k AUD unless you were planning on taking your AU funds to live in the US. A comfortable retirement for 2 in Australia is about $62k (and that’s before optimizing your lifestyle). Also $3.5k for healthcare is dream. And, if you structure your accounts well then you can minimize those income taxes (you don’t pay taxes on your super disbursements), and you’d only pay taxes on the growth, which, if under the minimum tax amount would result in no taxes paid ($18k). And Australia has franking credits. So, if you’re smart and things are well structured, you can make this work for you even better in retirement.
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$62k might be comfortable for two, but not for a family of four. It's doable, but not comfortable. It would put you, according to this site, in the bottom 10 percent of household incomes (when accounting for family size).
http://mattcowgill.com/2018/03/23/how-does-your-income-compare/
In fact, even a $90,000 income ($70k after tax) puts you in the bottom third of household incomes.
So perhaps you aren't factoring in the costs of living in Australia, which are higher than those in the U.S., even accounting for exchange rates.
Also, you don't pay taxes on superannuation withdrawals only after age 60 - it has no relevance if you're looking to retire in your 30s or 40s. You can't even access your superannuation at that age.
The $3.5k figure is not for the actual costs of healthcare. There are out of pocket costs and gap fees for most healthcare, just like in the U.S. The figure is just the basic taxes paid to ensure the running of the healthcare system.
Also, the min tax threshold doesn't apply anyway since the passive income is counted as income already way over that.
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Ages: 42/42
Family: 1 kid (7)
Status: Not retired
NW: $1.04 M invested, another 200k in equity
Goal is $1.7M
House: owe $225k, worth 425k’ish
FIRE dates: 2024-2026, depends on what happens with my wife’s job situation
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$62k might be comfortable for two, but not for a family of four. It's doable, but not comfortable. It would put you, according to this site, in the bottom 10 percent of household incomes (when accounting for family size).
http://mattcowgill.com/2018/03/23/how-does-your-income-compare/
In fact, even a $90,000 income ($70k after tax) puts you in the bottom third of household incomes.
So perhaps you aren't factoring in the costs of living in Australia, which are higher than those in the U.S., even accounting for exchange rates.
Also, you don't pay taxes on superannuation withdrawals only after age 60 - it has no relevance if you're looking to retire in your 30s or 40s. You can't even access your superannuation at that age.
The $3.5k figure is not for the actual costs of healthcare. There are out of pocket costs and gap fees for most healthcare, just like in the U.S. The figure is just the basic taxes paid to ensure the running of the healthcare system.
Also, the min tax threshold doesn't apply anyway since the passive income is counted as income already way over that.
Ok, so let’s back up. The idea here is that you’re now retired, so what you need is enough money to cover your expenses. It wouldn’t necessarily be traditional income, because it would depend on the source, for example if you were accessing saved cash. So you can’t presume what the tax rate would be.
Now, let’s accept your argument and say that the an Aussie family of four needs $100k for a comfortable lifestyle if they retire early. To achieve that type of SRW, you’d need $2.5 million. How long would that take a regular Aussie to achieve by 30? By 40 may be possible, but I’d think, if someone was focused from the start, 45 may be the earliest for most of the few on this journey. But let’s say 40.
So now, you need essentially two buckets: 40-59, and 60+.
From 40-59, you’ll need $1.9m from non-super sources. To reduce taxes or nullify them, it would seem you’re best to either have all cash that you can access, or take the distributions up to $18k, and use cash for the difference. You could probably have more distributions, if you workout the franking credits benefits, any other deductions and possible contributions to your super. Structured the right way you’ve got a good chance of accessing the $100k you need with minimal taxes paid. And if you calculate things well enough, you’ll essentially look like a low income person, which may reduce what you have to pay for healthcare.
For 60 and above, you’ll need about $625k in your super by age 40. If you leave that alone, you should have your $2.5m at age 60, which should cover you for life without any tax implications. This is also presuming you still need a $100k lifestyle.
The other options are to either reduce expenses, or work longer. But power to you if you can get to $2.5m by 30. Definitely write that book, it will outsell Barefoot Investor.
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Age: 41/37
Family Size: 4 (wife and 2 kids)
Status: Not yet retired
FIRE Number: 2.5 mill
FIRE age: 43/40 (target)
Pensions: $26,000/yr starting at 65
Paid off home.
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Age 60/57 kids on their own, retired two years ago
NW $5.9 mil, hasn’t changed much since retiring
RE value $2.1 mil but our private residence represents only $200k of that, the remainder is a lake home and agricultural land for both recreation and income.
We burn thru approx $150k annual spending.
AG ground spits out $27k annually
A very part time gig generates $25k
Pulling $50k out of $1.3 mil 401k
Balance coming from savings
Probably won’t take SS till 65ish
Remaining balance of NW is cash, CDs, stocks and misc investments.
I’m pretty confident we can maintain our burn rate and hang on to what we have without seeing NW shrink by too much.
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Age at FIRE: 44/45
Family Size: 4 (2 teenagers 15 & 17)
FIRE Number: $800k including education fund for the kids, excluding home.
Pensions: None other than basic government pensions after age 65. (Hint, much less than USA but includes basic healthcare)
Paid off home. NOT!
Status: "FIRED" in my mind, anyway! DH is still working at a job he enjoys-- I am working part time just to avoid drawing down the "stache" for a few more years. DH's income is about 1/2 what his peak income was, and mine is down to 15% of my former income, work from home, etc. We also use this income to invest in things that reduce long term costs, like an electric vehicle and solar panels.
In reflection, it made sense pre-FIRE to exclude home equity in these sorts of things. As I approached and became FIRE, I realize that in a HCOL area, it is impossible to exclude home equity in the thinking.
Like many, we choose to keep the mortage as high as our incomes will allow, to keep funds invested. But now with low incomes, that means that we have a LOT of home equity. Enough that if we were still working, we would have higher mortgages and more $$'s in the market.
Enough home equity that we could fully sell our home and move to a large townhouse or 4 hours away and be fully paid off with extra left over. Enough that we could create a basement suite to rent out for income ($1200/mo), or rent rooms to students, etc. In a HCOL area, half of the primary home is actually like a business income producing asset. Equity over the first $500k is actually like more invested funds, if you are willing to move.
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Age: 53/63 (will retire in May)
Family Size: 5 (3 kids in college)
Status: Not yet retired (husband retires in May)
FIRE Number: ???
FIRE age: 63 (husband); I am working until the kids are done with college and for health care after that
Current value of assets (not incl. house): $760,000
Pensions: 156,000/yr once we both retire
DH is pulling the plug, since his pension is maxed, he is not loving the work, and we calculated that he is going in for about $2.85/hour. He has already applied for a side-hustle in retirement as a grand juror, where the big bucks are made. I am continuing to work for several reasons, chief among those 3 kids in college at the moment. I also provide the health care for the family through my job. Once the kids are out of school, I will probably continue to work until I reach 60.5 years (my earliest official retirement age counting one year of banked leave) solely due to my work then picking up health care for us. I would RE in 3-4 years if it weren't for the health care aspect. If we decide we can afford to pay it on our own, I will probably jump ship and simply not collect my pension until I hit 61.5.