Author Topic: Alcohol - into the Details  (Read 4052 times)

PlantBased

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Alcohol - into the Details
« on: December 03, 2018, 08:33:44 AM »
In the FIRE movement we have people break everything down, shouldnít we do the same for every important decision of our life?  After all, a few simple lifestyle changes can be the difference between retirement in our 30ís vs 60ís.  Letís take a closer look at alcohol.  And for starters we might do a cost benefit analysis.

Benefits: you get a buzz, feel less inhibited, helps to break down barriers between people, enhances a good mood, relaxation, and itís an escape.

Costs: addiction, expensive, enhances a bad mood, accidents, DWIís, hangovers, bad for physical health, destroys brain cells, negatively effects future generations mind and body, i.e. your kids if you plan to have them, increased opportunity for poor judgement, a bad example for kids, potential to lose (job, friends or family), and as drinking increase so does the mentality of the crowd, i.e. fights, theft, unscrupulous behavior, etc..  The general theme behind alcohol is to enjoy now, and pay later.

Addiction is something that should be covered in depth in Jr. High. Here is how it works. 
1.   If you donít like something, for example some drug, no worries you wonít do it again Ė best case scenario. 
2.   Itís just OK, here there is no immediate risk of addiction, but with repetitive use dependency becomes a real possibility. 
3.   You love it: addition is likely, itís the worst case scenario

To become addicted to anything is just like making yourself a slave to a large fat, ugly, ruthless bully who will go on progressively treating you worse each month and year of your life.  So itís a beautiful day out, and you want to be outside enjoying the sunshine.  But not so fast, your tied to a bully who prefers to sit in the dark basement drinking alcohol and that is how you will spend the remainder of your day.  Anyone who has ever dealt with addiction knows the horror of being compelled against our own will - over, and over, and over again!

Youth verse old age.  In youth we are given, free of charge, a grace period.  For example we can go out and drink, and the next day our body recovers quickly.  But as we get older we start to notice hangovers last longer, and they take more out of us.  As a teenager we might recuperate in a few hours, in older age this progresses first to a day, then days, weeks, even a month. For an older person who goes on drinking their body NEVER has time to fully recover between their habits of drinking.  This is when the mind and body truly starts to break down, because the damage being done is never repaired.

ď Last year, the average American household spent $435 on beer, wine, hard liquor, and mixed drinks.Ē ďOverview of study findings. The cost of excessive alcohol use in the United States reached $249 billion in 2010, or about $2.05 per drinkĒ 

It would be easy to go on, and on here.  Personally I think we have been duped as a society.  Alcohol is big business, in commercials we are shown beautiful young people hanging out at the beach, drinking a beer, laughing and having fun.  Why donít they show scenes of someone getting a DWI and being hauled off to jail, or vomiting in their bed, or in your sink?  Or how about the guy with anger issue who starts fist fights, domestic violence, or even waking up next to a stranger.  How about wrecking your liver, or have you ever been to a nursing home and seen a man or woman clicking their teeth blankly staring at the wallÖ they did something to get like this.

All of us in Western counties have a lot of personal freedom to make our own choices, but itís a pity we seldom look in depth at where our actions lead.

MDfive21

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2018, 08:55:34 AM »
cost to me:  migraines.  so despite enjoying a nice belgian or german ale a couple times a week, i can't any more.

dude

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2018, 09:02:01 AM »
oh geezus. there are millions (probably more like a billion) of people who consume alcohol in moderation and find it very pleasurable to do so, without being addicted. I LOVE the taste of craft beer. Love the diversity of flavors in different styles, the craftsmanship that goes into producing a top-quality brew, and the camaraderie of sharing a few with friends at a bar or by a campfire. I enjoy an occasional bourbon for the same reasons.

Boofinator

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2018, 09:06:09 AM »
By the logic you propose, just about anything and everything in life can be abused.* That being said, alcohol does happen to be one of the more abused substances in the world, and hence why the prohibition movement was so successful (until it was actually implemented). What the prohibitionists failed to realize is that they discounted too much the positives associated with sociability and happiness that many people enjoy from moderate quantities of alcohol (even though they didn't necessarily experience the same positives).

I do agree with you that we should regularly analyze the choices we make in life, which includes drinking alcohol.

*If you feel the need for me to elaborate, please provide a case example outside of perhaps breathing.

GuitarStv

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2018, 09:22:44 AM »
There are certainly risks associated with alchohol consumption, but as stated they sound a little over the top.  I have a drink (one beer, or one cocktail) between once a week to once every two months, and have kept the same drinking habits for more than a decade.

Of the benefits you listed:
Quote
Benefits: you get a buzz, feel less inhibited, helps to break down barriers between people, enhances a good mood, relaxation, and itís an escape.

I don't drink to get a buzz, don't (typically) drink to break down barriers between people, and definitely don't drink as an escape.

It's nice to come back from a long Sunday bike ride, sit on our patio in the summer, and sip on a Gin and Tonic for a few hours while reading a book.  It's nice to have a beer on a Friday night wile jamming with some friends.  You certainly will never get a hangover from this, nor will you become addicted.

Pigeon

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2018, 10:02:36 AM »
I don't drink.  My extended family is full of alcoholics, and I think I liked alcohol a little too much back when I did drink.  Given the gene pool, I decided to stop.  For people with alcoholic tendencies, yes, it absolutely can ruin your life and the lives of people who care about you.

But the vast majority of people can enjoy alcohol in moderation, and for them, it's not a big deal.  The OP is kind of silly.

Slee_stack

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2018, 10:37:00 AM »
The ONLY benefit I get from a good craft beer is enjoying the flavor.

The negative to me is straight forward:  the cost and the calories.  Some beers are more expensive than I'd like and I realize I don't need extra weight.

But I also eat things sometimes that aren't the best for me.  I consider both beer and desserts treats and I consume them as such.

Similar to eating, over indulging in alcohol is not likely going to lead anywhere fun.

A flavorful beer is like a dessert for me...one that I don't tend to ever binge on.  I won't eat a whole pie or half gallon container of ice cream either. 

Any addiction is a problem for the addict.  Amazingly there are a LOT of non-addicts out there.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 10:56:07 AM by Slee_stack »

mm1970

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2018, 10:50:57 AM »
There are some very good points in here.

I like wine.  I live in wine country.  I belong to two wine clubs.  But...
- If I drink wine after 5 or 5:30 pm?  It interferes with my sleep.  And I need my sleep.  (Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker is a great book!)
- Because I don't drink much, even one glass of wine and I can REALLY feel it, and that doesn't feel awesome.
- My mother was an alcoholic and it killed her
- I grew up in a rural area.  People drink a lot.  My two closest siblings basically don't drink much at all because of our mom.

My FIL also drinks a lot and our last visit I was seeing a similar pattern as my mom, and it didn't make me feel good!  Worst thing was, he was blaming the drinking on other people!  I had my time during my younger days of going out and partying.  I hear about binge drinking, black out drinking...that was never my thing at all.  It seems scary!

My husband and I went to a birthday dinner this week.  I was the only teetotaler, he probably had his 6th beer of the year.  He made a comment that he's long past the "I like to drink" phase.  Dude, man, you were never in that phase.  He just really doesn't drink.

That said, our annual $$ spent on wine is far more than $435.  It's probably between $700-1000.  I like good wine.

I probably drink about a glass of wine a week, on average.  Two on a big week.  I had a glass last week.  I may have 1/2 glass at the company Holiday happy hour this week, but I have to drive so maybe not.  I will probably have a glass next week at my husband's company party.  When the doctor's office was asking about my intake I said "2 per week", and they kept saying "so, 2 per day?"

I am hoping my kids adopt my husband's not-drinking.  Neither of us has ever smoked or done drugs.  Interestingly, my husband was listening to NPR last year and he heard about studies they have been doing in Canada about addiction.  The group was able to identify, with pretty good accuracy, which children and teens were at risk of being addicted - and they used methods of intervention to prevent it.

Most of my wine goes to parties or as gifts!  I take a bottle, have a glass, and leave the rest (or the rest of the party drinks it!)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 10:53:00 AM by mm1970 »

partgypsy

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2018, 11:15:23 AM »
This is something I have given a lot of thought on, because alcoholism runs in my family (uncle, grandmother, and my brother)/. I also think both my mother and sister have drinking problems (super touchy topic). Even just one person in a family has an alcohol or drug problem it doesn't just affect that person, it impacts so many other people in the family. I have seen the damage. At the same time I don't think the solution is to outlawing drinking or everyone reducing their consumption to 0.  In my family's case there are some ground rules. My little brother (who has no problem) hosts the most. If either of his kids are in attendance (one is grown up, one is a senior in HS) no alcohol is served. This means people who have a problem with drinking can decide to come and abstain, or simply not attend. The same, if we are out with any of the people I think has a drinking problem, I don't order a drink. I'm there to enjoy their company, not to drink. People are social animals and often will not order a drink if no one else is doing that.  This has reduced a lot of arguments and potential problems.
For me, drinking is associated with meals and social occasions. There has been at least one time it has actually been helpful. While and right after my husband left, there were a number of months I had little appetite. I was losing weight. I found if I drank some wine with dinner it relaxed me and I enjoyed eating more. I also allowed myself to have things like cheese plates in the evening (night cheese :) I did gain back the weight so I no longer need it for medicinal purposes! For me what works, everything in moderation. If it's something you have a problem with, you can cut it out completely (with a doctor's supervision).     
I'm going to estimate I spend around $10 a week on wine or beer, which = $520, so I spend more than average.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 01:51:18 PM by partgypsy »

mxt0133

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2018, 11:16:01 AM »
One of the cons for me are the empty calories.  I like the taste of wine and beer and enjoy pairing them with certain foods like cheese.  However, it does not provide my body with a lot of nutrients so it is a top candidate that is removed from my diet, it is on the same level as soda for me.

I also think people underestimate the effects of alcohol on the liver and other parts of your body even in moderate amounts.  The increase risk of cancer with alcohol consumption is just another deterrent for me.


MDfive21

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2018, 11:59:43 AM »
i don't think the OP is off base at all.  s/he is focusing on the negative aspects obviously, but having seen intimately how horrible alcoholism can be, s/he's been pretty fair.  we all know what it's like to have a couple and enjoy the experience with no repercussions, but i think the real, ongoing costs are seen by a minority of us who are close to people who over-indulge on the regular.


Schaefer Light

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2018, 12:15:44 PM »
I quit drinking 10 months ago, and my biggest struggle has been the social aspect of quitting.  All of my friends and family members were also drinkers.  Now I don't seem to have any friends (other than some longtime friends who live far away) and I'll have to make new ones without the aid of alcohol.  That's a challenge for someone who hasn't met anyone new without having at least one drink since college.  Where do people who don't drink hang out?  I don't even know where to start.  To be perfectly honest, I used to look down on people who didn't drink.  They seemed like an alien species to me.  I guess I'll have to overcome my prejudiced view of them now ;).

Kroaler

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2018, 12:44:43 PM »
Interesting.

You guys are fully evaluating this, and Im just proud of myself for switching to Vodka and low calorie cranberry juice instead of high calorie craft beers.

Havent went full stop yet...

Schaefer Light

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2018, 01:00:48 PM »
People are social animals and often will not order a drink if no one else is doing that.
I just wanted to mention that the inverse of this is also true - people feel pressure to order a drink when everyone else is drinking.  It can make one feel like an outcast for not imbibing.

big_slacker

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2018, 01:08:22 PM »
Interesting.

You guys are fully evaluating this, and Im just proud of myself for switching to Vodka and low calorie cranberry juice instead of high calorie craft beers.

Havent went full stop yet...

I'm 44 years old, 5'11" and 165 lbs, usually around 12% BF and into various sports. I do about a 6 pack a week, always craft brew (Elysian!). Typically beers are consumed after a mountain bike ride. I will say that when I cared about being shredded I would dial back drinking to 1 or 2 a week and switch to scotch, jack and diet, etc.

In terms of money, I can think of many things I'd cut out before beer. It's just a really nice treat.

PiobStache

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2018, 01:48:53 PM »
Interesting first post.


Still Being

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2018, 01:52:58 PM »
Interesting first post.

"weird flex but ok"

partgypsy

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2018, 01:53:27 PM »
I quit drinking 10 months ago, and my biggest struggle has been the social aspect of quitting.  All of my friends and family members were also drinkers.  Now I don't seem to have any friends (other than some longtime friends who live far away) and I'll have to make new ones without the aid of alcohol.  That's a challenge for someone who hasn't met anyone new without having at least one drink since college.  Where do people who don't drink hang out?  I don't even know where to start.  To be perfectly honest, I used to look down on people who didn't drink.  They seemed like an alien species to me.  I guess I'll have to overcome my prejudiced view of them now ;).

You can still go to bars and all kinds of places where people drink, and just not drink. I know a number of people who are older and decided to not drink anymore for health reasons. We still meet at bars, go to concerts, etc, just their beverage of choice is different.  No one actually cares if you drink or not. The same thing was true for me in college, both drinking at times, and pot. The typical response was, cool, more for me. If you do know people who pressure you to drink those are pretty superficial people to know.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 01:56:17 PM by partgypsy »

use2betrix

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2018, 02:52:13 PM »
I get my cholesterol checked yearly, usually a couple times. I take supplements like fish oils, and have gone so far as taking niacin, all in an effort to boost that good cholesterol. I exercise hard 3 days a week, eat healthier than probably 90% of people, and maintain a healthy weight and low BF.

Last winter I started having a glass of red wine (rarely 2) a couple nights a week. 2-3 nights usually. I had my cholesterol checked after implementing this, (changing nothing else) and my good cholesterol was the highest itís been in years. I canít help but contribute to the wine.

Iím not an alcoholic and donít drink a ton otherwise (maybe a couple drinks when out to dinner on the weekends) but thatís about it. On special occasions Iíll really hammer some mixed drinks or margaritas back, but thatís maybe a few times a year.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2018, 03:06:27 PM »
I don't drink. 

Same here (almost).

Every year on New Year's Eve  I have ONE small cup  of eggnog w/ rum.

Adam Zapple

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2018, 04:07:44 PM »
I loved single malt scotch so much it started becoming habitual and very expensive.  I decided to quit drinking altogether, aside from the very occasional social occasion like a wedding or summer party.  Alcoholism runs in my family. 

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2018, 04:23:35 PM »
I don't relate to much of this except realizing I really got to cut down on the bacon. 

The benefits are 1) it tastes good.... 2) really really good... 3) I mean oh my word good.

I can justify it all I want by saying how I only have it once a week....Everything else about it is undoubtedly bad so that is once a week too often...

mm1970

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2018, 05:05:20 PM »
I quit drinking 10 months ago, and my biggest struggle has been the social aspect of quitting.  All of my friends and family members were also drinkers.  Now I don't seem to have any friends (other than some longtime friends who live far away) and I'll have to make new ones without the aid of alcohol.  That's a challenge for someone who hasn't met anyone new without having at least one drink since college.  Where do people who don't drink hang out?  I don't even know where to start.  To be perfectly honest, I used to look down on people who didn't drink.  They seemed like an alien species to me.  I guess I'll have to overcome my prejudiced view of them now ;).

Where I live (California) - they hang out everywhere but at bars. ;)

Seriously - running groups, hiking groups, churches, volunteer work - none of these are necessarily going to be "alcohol free", but you'll find plenty of non-drinkers there.  Especially the uber-healthy folks will give it up completely while training for something.

I have a co-worker who likes to make comments about people's habits.  Or maybe it's just me.  He commented on how much I ate at a company luncheon once.  (The luncheon was delayed until 1 pm, and I eat breakfast at 7 am, and I'd gone on a run that day).  Still, I went through the line early and took a *small* plate, because - that's the polite thing until everyone has eaten.  Then I went back later and got seconds.  And got a comment apparently.  Then they had cake.  I can't eat cake.  So I had a bowl of lentils.  (It was Indian food, and I can't eat wheat, so it's very rare for there to be ANY luncheon food that I can actually eat!)  The comment "THIRDS??"  Like really man.

Once, many months ago he made a comment about parties and said "yeah, you can certainly DRINK!"  I gave him a funny look, but how do you even respond to that?  He's probably only seen me drink at holiday parties.  At most, I've had 2.5 glasses of wine at a single part, and that would have been more than 7 years ago at this point.  (Pre-second baby.)

mm1970

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2018, 05:07:43 PM »
I get my cholesterol checked yearly, usually a couple times. I take supplements like fish oils, and have gone so far as taking niacin, all in an effort to boost that good cholesterol. I exercise hard 3 days a week, eat healthier than probably 90% of people, and maintain a healthy weight and low BF.

Last winter I started having a glass of red wine (rarely 2) a couple nights a week. 2-3 nights usually. I had my cholesterol checked after implementing this, (changing nothing else) and my good cholesterol was the highest itís been in years. I canít help but contribute to the wine.

Iím not an alcoholic and donít drink a ton otherwise (maybe a couple drinks when out to dinner on the weekends) but thatís about it. On special occasions Iíll really hammer some mixed drinks or margaritas back, but thatís maybe a few times a year.
This is interesting because the *ONE* thing that our doc says is that my husband's good cholesterol is too low.  But he just doesn't like drinking enough to add even half a glass now and then.

use2betrix

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2018, 06:28:25 PM »
I get my cholesterol checked yearly, usually a couple times. I take supplements like fish oils, and have gone so far as taking niacin, all in an effort to boost that good cholesterol. I exercise hard 3 days a week, eat healthier than probably 90% of people, and maintain a healthy weight and low BF.

Last winter I started having a glass of red wine (rarely 2) a couple nights a week. 2-3 nights usually. I had my cholesterol checked after implementing this, (changing nothing else) and my good cholesterol was the highest itís been in years. I canít help but contribute to the wine.

Iím not an alcoholic and donít drink a ton otherwise (maybe a couple drinks when out to dinner on the weekends) but thatís about it. On special occasions Iíll really hammer some mixed drinks or margaritas back, but thatís maybe a few times a year.
This is interesting because the *ONE* thing that our doc says is that my husband's good cholesterol is too low.  But he just doesn't like drinking enough to add even half a glass now and then.

I had a hard time getting it going. In my younger days, college days, early 20ís, etc., I could drink at bars with friends fairly often, but I NEVER drank at home unless it was just like ďpre-gamingĒ before going out. I was never, ever one to just drink at home, not even a casual beer or drink with a dinner. Just had no interest.

As such, it made it hard to start with the wine a few nights a week. I was actually working insane hours and the most stressful job of my career, so the few glasses of wine a week not only helped my cholesterol, but also did reduce stress a bit. Fortunately, anything more than 2 glasses and I get dehydrated in the night and feel poorly all around (often easy with 2 glasses) so it makes it easy to keep to the 1!

Schaefer Light

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2018, 06:46:38 AM »
I quit drinking 10 months ago, and my biggest struggle has been the social aspect of quitting.  All of my friends and family members were also drinkers.  Now I don't seem to have any friends (other than some longtime friends who live far away) and I'll have to make new ones without the aid of alcohol.  That's a challenge for someone who hasn't met anyone new without having at least one drink since college.  Where do people who don't drink hang out?  I don't even know where to start.  To be perfectly honest, I used to look down on people who didn't drink.  They seemed like an alien species to me.  I guess I'll have to overcome my prejudiced view of them now ;).

Where I live (California) - they hang out everywhere but at bars. ;)

Seriously - running groups, hiking groups, churches, volunteer work - none of these are necessarily going to be "alcohol free", but you'll find plenty of non-drinkers there.  Especially the uber-healthy folks will give it up completely while training for something.
Thanks for the ideas.  I didn't know people hung out anywhere other than bars.  The things you learn when you quit drinking.

Pigeon

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2018, 07:16:47 AM »
It is true that people don't care whether or not you are drinking, with very rare exceptions.  I stopped drinking cold turkey and was worried about what people would think.  The vast majority of people don't even notice.  The only people who do care tend to be people who are problem drinkers themselves.

Rufus.T.Firefly

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2018, 07:27:33 AM »
ď Last year, the average American household spent $435 on beer, wine, hard liquor, and mixed drinks.Ē ďOverview of study findings. The cost of excessive alcohol use in the United States reached $249 billion in 2010, or about $2.05 per drinkĒ 


Averages can be deceiving. The vast majority of consumption comes from a very few individuals. This Washington Post article from a few years ago, shows the US population breakdown by decile:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/?utm_term=.f6b70ba4cdcc

poetdereves

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2018, 07:28:12 AM »
Whatís surprising to me is that the average household only spends $435 on alcohol per year. I stopped drinking three years ago, but up until that point I spent about $200 a month on alcoholic beverages. I drank way more than the average person and had an issue, but many people I know are paying $9-12 for an average cocktail or $60+  for a nice bottle of bourbon to have at home.

Schaefer Light

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2018, 07:56:29 AM »
It is true that people don't care whether or not you are drinking, with very rare exceptions.  I stopped drinking cold turkey and was worried about what people would think.  The vast majority of people don't even notice.  The only people who do care tend to be people who are problem drinkers themselves.
You mean people like my friends and family, then ;).

mm1970

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2018, 09:42:15 AM »
ď Last year, the average American household spent $435 on beer, wine, hard liquor, and mixed drinks.Ē ďOverview of study findings. The cost of excessive alcohol use in the United States reached $249 billion in 2010, or about $2.05 per drinkĒ 


Averages can be deceiving. The vast majority of consumption comes from a very few individuals. This Washington Post article from a few years ago, shows the US population breakdown by decile:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/?utm_term=.f6b70ba4cdcc
OMG I remember seeing that.  That is insane!!  74 drinks a week?

index

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2018, 09:46:35 AM »
There many people who have a drink everyday without the negative consequences the OP cites. The US is #50 on the list of alcohol consumption per capita:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita

Look at the mentioned wapo article : https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/?utm_term=.f6b70ba4cdcc

Alcohol consumption is not the problem, it is the culture of binge drinking that is the problem.

I find it interesting this topic was OP's first and only post.

Still Being

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2018, 10:57:26 AM »

I find it interesting this topic was OP's first and only post.

Yeah. Where's the shady referral link?

partgypsy

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2018, 11:11:37 AM »
I thought of this thread when I read this (if have type 2 diabetes and want to sustain long term weight loss, don't drink alcohol).

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/12/181203115449.htm

OurTown

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2018, 09:23:22 AM »
Actually, the cost-benefit analysis (which the OP performs) is the right way to look at it.  Each individual person will have unique results.  In my case, I quit more than two years ago.  The costs were devastating.  Other people have different experiences of course.

OtherJen

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2018, 09:29:14 AM »
There many people who have a drink everyday without the negative consequences the OP cites. The US is #50 on the list of alcohol consumption per capita:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita

Look at the mentioned wapo article : https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/?utm_term=.f6b70ba4cdcc

Alcohol consumption is not the problem, it is the culture of binge drinking that is the problem.

I find it interesting this topic was OP's first and only post.

From that WaPo article: 74 per week...yikes. I cannot even imagine that.

I usually have a drink in the evening. I enjoy a 4 or 5-ounce glass of wine or small cocktail (usually a well-shaken martini made with 1.5 ounces of gin and a small splash of vermouth). Anything more than two drinks of that size in a single evening is a recipe for a nasty headache later.

Helvegen

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2018, 10:19:40 AM »
Interesting.

You guys are fully evaluating this, and Im just proud of myself for switching to Vodka and low calorie cranberry juice instead of high calorie craft beers.

Havent went full stop yet...

If I drink, I mostly just do vodka/whiskey/rum with zero cal mixers. Usually on Saturdays, my husband and I will split a new to us craft bomber. I am not really a fan of wine. I actually do like to drink to get buzzed, otherwise I have no way to justify the calories. It just doesn't taste THAT good. I have tried weed, but I don't smoke and edibles are extremely unpredictable in their effects or lack thereof and give me an immediate headache as soon as I finish swallowing it. I once woke up in a fucking bathtub on that shit having zero idea how I got there or how long I had been there and got so sick. Times that has happened with alcohol? ZERO. Weed is too expensive to try and figure out and I've pretty much given up on it because I am not going to start smoking it or anything else. Alcohol I know exactly how to dose and the results are very reliable. I think I have been hungover maybe once in my life? I just don't get shitfaced drunk. That's not fun or relaxing to be nasueous and vomiting and have vertigo. Bit of a buzz and I am good to go. Know when to quit.

Everything in moderation.

Finallyunderstand

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2018, 11:23:05 AM »
Switch to Kombucha.  Flavorful, different, and healthier.  Not cheaper though.  :)

As others have said, drinking in moderation is no issue.  Similar to a sweet treat every once in a while.  Don't get me started on sugar and the negative health effects it has but is widely accepted as "okay" and isn't portrayed nearly as badly as alcohol to the masses.

If you're overweight you can also be stuck inside not able to go out and enjoy life because of your eating habits as opposed to your drinking habits. 

If you don't eat enough.... same thing.

If you play video games too much.... same thing.

If you smoke too much weed... same thing.

The list could continue for any number of vices that can get out of control.

Life is about moderation and self control.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2018, 11:48:46 AM »
I have a weird relationship with alcohol. Iím not much of a drinker and can easily go a year without touching it, if I wanted to. I canít generally drink casually, it just doesnít make sense to me. If I drink, usually the purpose is to be drunk or really buzzed so I can be more relaxed going out partying with friends. I have a rule about never driving with only one drink. I donít get peopleís obsession with it and recently I learned that drinking any alcohol stops the fat burning process. Whatís weird is people reactions if you donít drink. Sometimes Iím tempted to tell people Iím a recovering alcoholic, just to stop them but I donít think itís fair to lie like that.

Scandium

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2018, 11:53:49 AM »
Here's an organization you should join, I heard they have some really good points. Could make a political splash soon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Saloon_League

elaine amj

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2018, 09:16:28 PM »
I am a very occasional drinker. I get drunk very very easily and I have hated the 2 times in my life where I have gotten fairly drunk and have been super careful to avoid that. I have never been able to understand why people decide on purpose to get smashed. I actually don't like getting buzzed either. I dislike not feeling in control of myself (I am more than capable of thoroughly embarrassing myself to entertain my friends without alcohol).

That said, I don't mind a drink here and there and generally like wine, beer, and sweet mixed drinks. However, I have discovered I like pop/juice/punch about equally as much.

So being Mustachian, I have realized there is little point for me to waste calories AND money on alcoholic drinks when I get just as much enjoyment out of non-alcoholic drinks. And given the choice, I much, much prefer a slice of cake.

I do still drink occasionally, usually in a social setting. But I'd be fine with prohibition too. Especially from a risk vs reward vs cost perspective, I really don't understand the insistence on alcohol.

Then again, my coworkers just cannot imagine entertaining people without a drop of alcohol. Sometimes there are drinks in my house, but it is rare. Then again, we are sufficiently ridiculous without alcoholic involvement with Minute to Win It parties, dangerous games of Spoons, annual dominoes tournaments, and even a waterfight in my living room one memorable NYE!

Sent from my LG-K373 using Tapatalk


super hans

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2018, 10:09:27 PM »
I don't drink because of this:

https://www.everydayhealth.com/erectile-dysfunction/why-boozing-can-be-bad-for-your-sex-life.aspx

BTW, millionaire with a wife 20 years younger is my goal :D

soccerluvof4

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2018, 03:16:01 AM »
I drink maybe once a year because of the way i feel today! ugh-over indulged!

Villanelle

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2018, 04:14:42 AM »
Unusual first post.  Is this really about FIRE?

Also, DUI is not a result of drinking alcohol.  It's a result of drinking alcohol to excess and choosing to drive.  By your logic, DUI would also be a result of choosing to drive.  One step in a multi-step process, when all steps are required for the end result and when the actor has control over the other steps, is not the cause of the result.   

Similarly, hangover is not a result of alcohol consumption.  It's a result of excessive alcohol consumption.  Again, this is like saying death is a result of water consumption.  In fact, it is a result of excessive a water consumption.  Someone then using those deaths to "prove" water consumption is harmful would look rather foolish.

I could go on (bad example for the kiddies?  Not if you aren't drinking around them, or if you are modeling responsible behavior in front of them, which could easily be argued is actually better than never drinking around them and thereby creating a tempting
forbidden mystery; lost job?  Again, having a cocktail or two a few times a months is not going to cause anyone to lose a job; etc.)

So color me skeptical that this post was actually an innocent thought exercise from a Mustashian.  As a first post.  With a health-based name.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 04:17:18 AM by Villanelle »

Jtrey17

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2018, 07:50:36 AM »
I drink maybe once a year because of the way i feel today! ugh-over indulged!
Iím with you there! I drink about 4 times a year-always to excess. And even worse, I only smoke when I drink-and feel horrible the next few days for it. Iíve committed to a year of sobriety after the last time and think I just wonít pick it back up after. Some people just shouldnít drink, and Iím one of them. Iím just really glad drinking hasnít adversely affected my life.

LetItGrow

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2018, 04:06:04 PM »
I get my cholesterol checked yearly, usually a couple times. I take supplements like fish oils, and have gone so far as taking niacin, all in an effort to boost that good cholesterol. I exercise hard 3 days a week, eat healthier than probably 90% of people, and maintain a healthy weight and low BF.

Last winter I started having a glass of red wine (rarely 2) a couple nights a week. 2-3 nights usually. I had my cholesterol checked after implementing this, (changing nothing else) and my good cholesterol was the highest itís been in years. I canít help but contribute to the wine.

Iím not an alcoholic and donít drink a ton otherwise (maybe a couple drinks when out to dinner on the weekends) but thatís about it. On special occasions Iíll really hammer some mixed drinks or margaritas back, but thatís maybe a few times a year.

Saved a note from my doc saying drink red wine. Overall was low, but good a little low. I obliged and all good now.

OtherJen

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2018, 05:02:56 PM »
I get my cholesterol checked yearly, usually a couple times. I take supplements like fish oils, and have gone so far as taking niacin, all in an effort to boost that good cholesterol. I exercise hard 3 days a week, eat healthier than probably 90% of people, and maintain a healthy weight and low BF.

Last winter I started having a glass of red wine (rarely 2) a couple nights a week. 2-3 nights usually. I had my cholesterol checked after implementing this, (changing nothing else) and my good cholesterol was the highest itís been in years. I canít help but contribute to the wine.

Iím not an alcoholic and donít drink a ton otherwise (maybe a couple drinks when out to dinner on the weekends) but thatís about it. On special occasions Iíll really hammer some mixed drinks or margaritas back, but thatís maybe a few times a year.

Saved a note from my doc saying drink red wine. Overall was low, but good a little low. I obliged and all good now.

My dad has a glass of red wine every day. His cardiologist told him to keep doing what heís doing. Heart disease, hypertension, and high cholesterol run in his family, and heís the only male in his immediate family who hasnít had a heart attack.

ImCheap

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2018, 05:44:46 PM »
I love beer, so tasty. Try to keep it to a 6 pack a week, give or take.

My biggest battle is coffee, love it but man it creates some havoc on my system. Find it hard to keep coffee to just the weekends. Keeping beer to the weekends is easy compard to coffee. Did not start coffee until 40, never should have started!

SnackDog

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2018, 06:00:32 PM »
Alcohol use is a very complicated and personal, specific situation with every variation you can imagine.  People who drink a ton and function well, others who go ape-shit with two drinks and crash their car, teetotalers who don't like the taste, offspring of abusive alcoholics, and everything in between and at every stage of life. And usage and consequences can shift drastically during life.  Generalizations are not very useful.  If you like anecdotal stories from people who have had incidents, try an AA meeting.

My advice is this - whatever age you are, if you enjoy drinking quite a bit (regardless of how much you actually indulge), you are headed for trouble sooner or later and would be better off quitting.  If quitting sounds like a big leap, get help.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Alcohol - into the Details
« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2018, 06:08:26 PM »
Alcohol is a cultural thing - if you drink with meals, appreciate an aperitif before or a digestif (liqueur) after, with a nice dinner, your alcohol consumption will be low and your liver will be happy*.  If you drink to get blasted, you will have lots of alcohol-related problems.

With people being a lot more careful about DUI, I had the impression that there is actually less pressure to drink than there was when I was in my teens and twenties.  Certainly it is easy at a party to alternate alcoholic and non-alcoholic drinks.  And everyone knows what a designated driver is (they existed back when, but not as such, and there were a lot of boyfriends/husbands who would get really upset if their girlfriends/wives didn't want them to drive).

I do find alcohol relaxing.  If I want to do something after dinner I won't have a glass of wine with dinner, too relaxed.

*Everyone does know not to mix alcohol and NSAIDs, right?  They use the same liver enzymes and if you have both in you system it can be really bad for your liver.