Author Topic: What's your networth when you FIRE'd  (Read 9621 times)

FireLane

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 345
  • Location: NYC
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2018, 03:22:56 PM »
Age: 36
Family Size: 3 (married, one kid)
Status: Working (going down to part-time, 4 days/wk as of this month)
FIRE Number: 1.5M
FIRE age: Expected @ 38 (2020)
Pensions: None

If DW and I both got sick of work tomorrow, I estimate that we could pull off a bare-bones FIRE at 1.25M, which we're nearly at. 1.5M should be enough to support us at our current lifestyle. Anything above that would allow for either fatFIRE or a heftier donor-advised fund with more charitable giving. See my journal for the calculations.

Our 2020 plan depends heavily on what happens with health care. If the individual insurance market is in a state of collapse, I may defer RE and ask to cut down to 3 days/wk, just so I can keep working for the insurance.

matchewed

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4246
  • Location: CT
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2018, 03:47:43 PM »
My age: 37
My soon to be wife's age: 33
Current NW: Around $300k
FIRE goal: $500k-$600k w/ annual rental income of $10k.

We think we'll hit that in around three to five years.

No rugrats.

revisednut

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Buffalo, NY
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2018, 03:58:55 PM »
Age: 31
Family size: Soon to be 2
Soon to be wife's age: 30
Current NW: $195k (excluding home equity)
Current NW: $350k (including equity in primary and rental)
Fire Goal: $900,000 (excluding home equity)
Hoping to hit this by 40
Figures exclude wife's NW (around $0 anyway), until we're married--her savings are offset by student loan balance.

Lanthiriel

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 739
  • Location: Portlandia
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2018, 04:56:09 PM »
Our 2020 plan depends heavily on what happens with health care. If the individual insurance market is in a state of collapse, I may defer RE and ask to cut down to 3 days/wk, just so I can keep working for the insurance.

Re: higher FIRE numbers, FireLane hit on why mine are so high. I estimate we will only need $30k/year to actually live on if we went to settle in the tiny town in NC that most of my family lives in. But taxes (federal, state, and property), healthcare, and real estate are so variable both geographically and over time that I want a very comfortable amount in the bank before I pull the plug. We're a long way out (farthest behind on the thread maybe... woo?) and not completely sure where we want to live long-term. We plan to discover this magical happy place through post-FIRE travel to a short list of wildly diverse places.

Also, my husband is very adamant about not having to work for pay another day in his life after FIRE. I'm much more open to a part-time job, but it would be nice not to NEED one.

Bateaux

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1168
  • Location: Port Vincent
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2018, 05:25:19 PM »
This thread is a sign of times ... so many FIRE numbers above $1.5m excluding a paid off house!

This is enough to basically have a FIRED income of $60,000 forever and still keep growing your stash under literally all conditions.

I am a hypocrite because I will want to do this too, but damn, can any of us really call ourselves mustachian anymore?

We are in very uncertain times.  All the social crash nets are under the threat of possible bankruptcy.   In a not so distant future we could lose Social Security and Medicare.   If not lost completely it could drastically change where benefits aren't available till 70 or even 75 years old.  We could lose the ACA and see health insurance costs skyrocket for those with preexisting conditions.   The firehose of employment income and employers benefits are difficult to give up.  The party in charge has come right out and told you they intend to make cuts.  You have to take them serious.

DreamFIRE

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1230
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2018, 06:17:42 PM »
Net worth is irrelevant since net worth includes my home.

My stash is currently and will hopefully continue to be in the $1.3M to $1.4M range a year from now when I plan to FIRE.

Single, own my home, living alone.  That should be enough to cover ~$1600/mo bare bones expenses and over $2400/mo discretionary spending.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 06:19:28 PM by DreamFIRE »

marty998

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5638
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2018, 02:48:47 AM »
Perhaps I did not make myself clear because I'm thinking the point I was making has been missed. If you need the additional safety blanket, fine, that's ok*. I'm not focussed on the stash size, I'm focussed on the income it generates to support your spending.

This thread is a sign of times ... so many FIRE numbers above $1.5m excluding a paid off house!

This is enough to basically have a FIRED income of $60,000 forever and still keep growing your stash under literally all conditions.

I am a hypocrite because I will want to do this too, but damn, can any of us really call ourselves mustachian anymore?

We are in very uncertain times.  All the social crash nets are under the threat of possible bankruptcy.   In a not so distant future we could lose Social Security and Medicare.   If not lost completely it could drastically change where benefits aren't available till 70 or even 75 years old.  We could lose the ACA and see health insurance costs skyrocket for those with preexisting conditions.   The firehose of employment income and employers benefits are difficult to give up.  The party in charge has come right out and told you they intend to make cuts.  You have to take them serious.

Ok further up people were talking about Pete and IRP and him having buckets loads more money now and all that shit.

Forget about all that.

 The original premise of the blog is "MMM and Mrs MMM FIRED with a spending budget of $24,000 a year, this is how we did it"

Net worth is irrelevant since net worth includes my home.

My stash is currently and will hopefully continue to be in the $1.3M to $1.4M range a year from now when I plan to FIRE.

Single, own my home, living alone.  That should be enough to cover ~$1600/mo bare bones expenses and over $2400/mo discretionary spending.

@DreamFIRE I'm going to pick on you by quoting this** because you seem typical of this thread in needing $1.4m which supports spending of $56,000 a year (not the $48,000 you mention, and is well excess of the <$20,000 bare bones FIRE stash you need).

Now are you all saying that $24,000 is impossible to do in this day and age? You need $1.4 x 4% = $56,000 a year to make this work and feel comfortable to leave the corporate cubicles? Is it no longer possible to optimise, to hack, to minimise expenses? Is it no longer desirable to do so? Do you not want to do so in order to bring FIRE forward, or provide you with additional margin of safety?

If $56,000 is your number, then fine. But if MMM were reading this he'd be telling you $56,000 is an exploding volcano of wastefulness worth of spending.

* & **  Note I already called myself a hypocrite by needing more so this applies to me too.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 02:52:22 AM by marty998 »

matchewed

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4246
  • Location: CT
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2018, 05:22:38 AM »
Perhaps I did not make myself clear because I'm thinking the point I was making has been missed. If you need the additional safety blanket, fine, that's ok*. I'm not focussed on the stash size, I'm focussed on the income it generates to support your spending.

This thread is a sign of times ... so many FIRE numbers above $1.5m excluding a paid off house!

This is enough to basically have a FIRED income of $60,000 forever and still keep growing your stash under literally all conditions.

I am a hypocrite because I will want to do this too, but damn, can any of us really call ourselves mustachian anymore?

We are in very uncertain times.  All the social crash nets are under the threat of possible bankruptcy.   In a not so distant future we could lose Social Security and Medicare.   If not lost completely it could drastically change where benefits aren't available till 70 or even 75 years old.  We could lose the ACA and see health insurance costs skyrocket for those with preexisting conditions.   The firehose of employment income and employers benefits are difficult to give up.  The party in charge has come right out and told you they intend to make cuts.  You have to take them serious.

Ok further up people were talking about Pete and IRP and him having buckets loads more money now and all that shit.

Forget about all that.

 The original premise of the blog is "MMM and Mrs MMM FIRED with a spending budget of $24,000 a year, this is how we did it"

Net worth is irrelevant since net worth includes my home.

My stash is currently and will hopefully continue to be in the $1.3M to $1.4M range a year from now when I plan to FIRE.

Single, own my home, living alone.  That should be enough to cover ~$1600/mo bare bones expenses and over $2400/mo discretionary spending.

@DreamFIRE I'm going to pick on you by quoting this** because you seem typical of this thread in needing $1.4m which supports spending of $56,000 a year (not the $48,000 you mention, and is well excess of the <$20,000 bare bones FIRE stash you need).

Now are you all saying that $24,000 is impossible to do in this day and age? You need $1.4 x 4% = $56,000 a year to make this work and feel comfortable to leave the corporate cubicles? Is it no longer possible to optimise, to hack, to minimise expenses? Is it no longer desirable to do so? Do you not want to do so in order to bring FIRE forward, or provide you with additional margin of safety?

If $56,000 is your number, then fine. But if MMM were reading this he'd be telling you $56,000 is an exploding volcano of wastefulness worth of spending.

* & **  Note I already called myself a hypocrite by needing more so this applies to me too.

Well sure. The tone of the forum has shifted. It used to be about optimizing your relationship between money and happiness. Now it's about FIRE. One is a process the other a goal. People forgot to focus on the process.

Malkynn

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1123
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #58 on: July 10, 2018, 05:24:31 AM »
Perhaps I did not make myself clear because I'm thinking the point I was making has been missed. If you need the additional safety blanket, fine, that's ok*. I'm not focussed on the stash size, I'm focussed on the income it generates to support your spending.

This thread is a sign of times ... so many FIRE numbers above $1.5m excluding a paid off house!

This is enough to basically have a FIRED income of $60,000 forever and still keep growing your stash under literally all conditions.

I am a hypocrite because I will want to do this too, but damn, can any of us really call ourselves mustachian anymore?

We are in very uncertain times.  All the social crash nets are under the threat of possible bankruptcy.   In a not so distant future we could lose Social Security and Medicare.   If not lost completely it could drastically change where benefits aren't available till 70 or even 75 years old.  We could lose the ACA and see health insurance costs skyrocket for those with preexisting conditions.   The firehose of employment income and employers benefits are difficult to give up.  The party in charge has come right out and told you they intend to make cuts.  You have to take them serious.

Ok further up people were talking about Pete and IRP and him having buckets loads more money now and all that shit.

Forget about all that.

 The original premise of the blog is "MMM and Mrs MMM FIRED with a spending budget of $24,000 a year, this is how we did it"

Net worth is irrelevant since net worth includes my home.

My stash is currently and will hopefully continue to be in the $1.3M to $1.4M range a year from now when I plan to FIRE.

Single, own my home, living alone.  That should be enough to cover ~$1600/mo bare bones expenses and over $2400/mo discretionary spending.

@DreamFIRE I'm going to pick on you by quoting this** because you seem typical of this thread in needing $1.4m which supports spending of $56,000 a year (not the $48,000 you mention, and is well excess of the <$20,000 bare bones FIRE stash you need).

Now are you all saying that $24,000 is impossible to do in this day and age? You need $1.4 x 4% = $56,000 a year to make this work and feel comfortable to leave the corporate cubicles? Is it no longer possible to optimise, to hack, to minimise expenses? Is it no longer desirable to do so? Do you not want to do so in order to bring FIRE forward, or provide you with additional margin of safety?

If $56,000 is your number, then fine. But if MMM were reading this he'd be telling you $56,000 is an exploding volcano of wastefulness worth of spending.

* & **  Note I already called myself a hypocrite by needing more so this applies to me too.

Okay...

Except the question didnít ask what our projected annual spend will be in retirement, or what our bare bones FI would be, it asked about net worth when FIRED.

Also, I donít have a traditional day job that I donít enjoy.
If you were to ask me what my net worth was when I left my high paying full time job to dedicate myself to following my passions, well that was at -200K.

Thereís also a huge difference between someone who FIREs very young with the intention of continuing to generate income and someone who FIREs later in life and plans to never generate another cent ever again. The never-earn-again person is saving for every possible contingency. The ER who continues to earn can Coast into a massive Ďstache by the time they stop earning (*if* they ever stop earning).

Pete doesnít live off of his ístache and he didnít actually intend to either, which means that it was a given that it would grow.

The never earn again people tend to feel the need for massive cushions, which is understandable. Just because their Ďstache is 2M doesnít mean they plan to spend 80K per year. You simply cannot jump to that conclusion. They may just not feel secure leaving paid work FOREVER without a HUGE safety net.

Lastly, thereís the question of what we plan on spending in retirement. Well, that too is a number that you cannot deduce hypocrisy from because everyoneís plans are different.

I *do* plan on spending A LOT in my retirement if I have the money to.
I plan on spending on top notch care for my disabled mom, I plan on contributing to outreach programs within my profession that provide critical care to people in desperate need, I plan on funding my DH campaign(s) if he does decide to run, etc. None of which I would consider hypocritical.

When I see big FIRE numbers, my mind goes to ďI wonder if they enjoy their work or if they are grinding for the sake of the money? Is it love or fear that is motivating them?Ē or ďIím curious what their vision for their retirement is?Ē

Iím not saying that there arenít plenty of people here who just want to have luxurious retirements and who donít value minimalism and frugality, Iím just saying that more meaningful questions need to be asked in order to draw conclusions about someoneís values or hypocrisy.


boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7753
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #59 on: July 10, 2018, 06:04:32 AM »
This thread is a sign of times ... so many FIRE numbers above $1.5m excluding a paid off house!

This is enough to basically have a FIRED income of $60,000 forever and still keep growing your stash under literally all conditions.

I am a hypocrite because I will want to do this too, but damn, can any of us really call ourselves mustachian anymore?

Pete makes a ton of money and has a huge net worth...
I donít think a large Ďstache means anything in and of itself.

For those of us, like Pete, who are extremely well paid for work/part time work/side hustles that we enjoy and spend very little, a huge Ďstache is inevitable. Just because Iíll likely end up with a Ďstache that could support a big annual spend doesnít mean Iíll be spending that much.

Itís my Mustachianism thatís making me rich, not the other way around.

But FIRE number is when you're financially independent, not an amount of money you just happen to accumulate. If you only need $800k but reach $1.5M because you love your work then your number is $800k. I don't think that many people here love their work, they mostly fear needing the money or are not mustachian, IMO

incorrect you're describing an FI number the RE part is when you quit.

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7753
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #60 on: July 10, 2018, 06:09:02 AM »
This thread is a sign of times ... so many FIRE numbers above $1.5m excluding a paid off house!

This is enough to basically have a FIRED income of $60,000 forever and still keep growing your stash under literally all conditions.

I am a hypocrite because I will want to do this too, but damn, can any of us really call ourselves mustachian anymore?

Pete makes a ton of money and has a huge net worth...
I donít think a large Ďstache means anything in and of itself.

For those of us, like Pete, who are extremely well paid for work/part time work/side hustles that we enjoy and spend very little, a huge Ďstache is inevitable. Just because Iíll likely end up with a Ďstache that could support a big annual spend doesnít mean Iíll be spending that much.

Itís my Mustachianism thatís making me rich, not the other way around.

But FIRE number is when you're financially independent, not an amount of money you just happen to accumulate. If you only need $800k but reach $1.5M because you love your work then your number is $800k. I don't think that many people here love their work, they mostly fear needing the money or are not mustachian, IMO
True. Pete's NW when he FIREd was around $600K plus a paid off house. That doesn't change whether he earns blog money or wins the lotto. My NW when I FIREd years ago is different than it is now but that doesn't change my original NW when I became FI and decided to RE (in true IRP non-working fashion).

But I agree with@marty998, seems like a lot of people here need a lot of money before they pull the plug

ETA: this recent  thread highlights that fear of stopping work and needing a huge stash https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/a-cure-for-last-mile-itis/?topicseen

pete was closer to 800k when he fired which is 1MM today.

davisgang90

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1133
  • Location: Roanoke, VA
    • Photography by Rich Davis
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #61 on: July 10, 2018, 07:22:20 AM »
Age: 49
Family size: 4 (20 year old with autism and 14 year old)
Wife's age: 50
Current NW: ~$500K
FIREd 15 June 18

One big caveat, I retired from the military, have a very nice pension, relatively cheap healthcare and I can pass on my GI bill for 4 years of college to the 14 year old.   These three things make retirement much easier for me at this stage.  Don't call the IRP, but I plan to work part time and we've set up a Roth ladder that I can start drawing from in 2020.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 04:30:29 AM by davisgang90 »

2Birds1Stone

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4349
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Earth
  • K Thnx Bye
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2018, 02:51:05 PM »
Age: 38
Family Size: Fiance and Myself
Status: Not yet retired
Current NW: $501k
FIRE Number: $900k based on current spending (some geographical arbitrage), ultimately want to get to $1.2M for peace of mind.
FIRE age: 31/35 respectively
Pensions: None

Even though we are ~4 years out from that goal, we plan on many breaks between now and then. Specifically 4 months off in 2019 and 9 months in 2020.

With spending that low, even working 2 days a week for 8 hours would cover 2/3rds of our spending, or provide for additional luxuries as we desire them.

mjr

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 195
  • Age: 52
  • Location: Brisbane, Qld
  • Retired at 52
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2018, 04:32:26 PM »
The never earn again people tend to feel the need for massive cushions, which is understandable. Just because their Ďstache is 2M doesnít mean they plan to spend 80K per year. You simply cannot jump to that conclusion. They may just not feel secure leaving paid work FOREVER without a HUGE safety net.

+1

JoJo

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1175
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2018, 05:30:46 PM »
The never earn again people tend to feel the need for massive cushions, which is understandable. Just because their Ďstache is 2M doesnít mean they plan to spend 80K per year. You simply cannot jump to that conclusion. They may just not feel secure leaving paid work FOREVER without a HUGE safety net.

+1

I'm one of those with a "massive" cushion.  I'm hoping to do some slow travel with a budget around $100/day or $36,500 per year.  I want the extra cushion because:
1) There are a few bucket list things I want to do that cost much more than $100/day   - for example, I booked an Antarctica trip @ $12K for late 2019
2) I went thru the recession and know easy come, easy go.  My stache at 1/2 is not impressive
3) I don't want to feel broke in years I need/want a splurge.  This year my car broke down and it was no sweat to buy a new Transit Connect - and I'm loving the van camping!
4) the big mystery of health care - I'm nearing the age where it gets more expensive but before Medicare.  I'm considering an international plan, but this involves underwriting & pre ex so need to stay healthy.  If the mandate comes back, this is out and big bucks back in unless I can stay out of the country for 330, not something I can commit with aging parents.

Acorns

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 82
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #65 on: July 10, 2018, 06:53:49 PM »
We are a long way out from FIRE
Age: mid-30s
Family Size: spouse and kids
Status: Not yet retired
Current NW: $1.3M (including rental property but not primary residence, about $970k investments)
FIRE Number: $3M (after the kids graduate from college it [might be, depending on future healthcare costs] will be less, but that is the minimum we would need today to quit and still be certain we could make a significant contribution to their college, which is a priority for us).
FIRE age: mid-50s
Pensions: Possibly, depending on the solvency of the gov't when I am 60.

spartana

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 260
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #66 on: July 10, 2018, 07:26:41 PM »
Perhaps I did not make myself clear because I'm thinking the point I was making has been missed. If you need the additional safety blanket, fine, that's ok*. I'm not focussed on the stash size, I'm focussed on the income it generates to support your spending.

This thread is a sign of times ... so many FIRE numbers above $1.5m excluding a paid off house!

This is enough to basically have a FIRED income of $60,000 forever and still keep growing your stash under literally all conditions.

I am a hypocrite because I will want to do this too, but damn, can any of us really call ourselves mustachian anymore?

We are in very uncertain times.  All the social crash nets are under the threat of possible bankruptcy.   In a not so distant future we could lose Social Security and Medicare.   If not lost completely it could drastically change where benefits aren't available till 70 or even 75 years old.  We could lose the ACA and see health insurance costs skyrocket for those with preexisting conditions.   The firehose of employment income and employers benefits are difficult to give up.  The party in charge has come right out and told you they intend to make cuts.  You have to take them serious.

Ok further up people were talking about Pete and IRP and him having buckets loads more money now and all that shit.

Forget about all that.

 The original premise of the blog is "MMM and Mrs MMM FIRED with a spending budget of $24,000 a year, this is how we did it"

Net worth is irrelevant since net worth includes my home.

My stash is currently and will hopefully continue to be in the $1.3M to $1.4M range a year from now when I plan to FIRE.

Single, own my home, living alone.  That should be enough to cover ~$1600/mo bare bones expenses and over $2400/mo discretionary spending.

@DreamFIRE I'm going to pick on you by quoting this** because you seem typical of this thread in needing $1.4m which supports spending of $56,000 a year (not the $48,000 you mention, and is well excess of the <$20,000 bare bones FIRE stash you need).

Now are you all saying that $24,000 is impossible to do in this day and age? You need $1.4 x 4% = $56,000 a year to make this work and feel comfortable to leave the corporate cubicles? Is it no longer possible to optimise, to hack, to minimise expenses? Is it no longer desirable to do so? Do you not want to do so in order to bring FIRE forward, or provide you with additional margin of safety?

If $56,000 is your number, then fine. But if MMM were reading this he'd be telling you $56,000 is an exploding volcano of wastefulness worth of spending.

* & **  Note I already called myself a hypocrite by needing more so this applies to me too.

Okay...

Except the question didn’t ask what our projected annual spend will be in retirement, or what our bare bones FI would be, it asked about net worth when FIRED.


This. My NW is much higher than my current FIRE spending, which is low, so NW at FIRE is a poor indicator of what someone will actually spend. Especially if some of that NW is locked up in housing or future income like pensions or SS or other money you won't touch until older age.

ETA and no I didnt work longer to get a higher NW before ER. My stash at FIRE was only enough for barebones expenses at that time. I was OK with that because I had a paid off house I knew I would eventually sell a few years after FIRE in order to downsize and that the profits from that would be enough to add extra $$ for fun stuff. Plus I knew I would get a $1500 pension once 50 (retired at 42) and could easily bridge that time with house sale money. So my NW didn't change at all but my ability to spend more than bare bones changed  just by re-structuring my NW to something more liquid.

I hadn't planned to FIRE but just take approx 5 years off work (I had taken 2 years off a few years before and gotten rehired by my same agency) but I fell in love with the non-working life and ended up spending much less money (for a better lifestyle too) so full IRP FIRE became possible by downsizing my house (to a better location too).
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 08:27:43 PM by spartana »

DreamFIRE

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1230
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #67 on: July 10, 2018, 08:04:17 PM »
The original premise of the blog is "MMM and Mrs MMM FIRED with a spending budget of $24,000 a year, this is how we did it"

Net worth is irrelevant since net worth includes my home.

My stash is currently and will hopefully continue to be in the $1.3M to $1.4M range a year from now when I plan to FIRE.

Single, own my home, living alone.  That should be enough to cover ~$1600/mo bare bones expenses and over $2400/mo discretionary spending.

@DreamFIRE I'm going to pick on you by quoting this** because you seem typical of this thread in needing $1.4m which supports spending of $56,000 a year (not the $48,000 you mention, and is well excess of the <$20,000 bare bones FIRE stash you need).

But that's not what I said.  I said I currently have in the range of $1.3 to $1.4 and hope to continue to have that when I FIRE.  That basically means that's where I already am, and I hope I don't lose money over the next year.  That seems reasonable.  That's not the same as "need", and I gave that full range, not specifically $1.4M.  If the stock market returns zero over the next year, my contributions alone should get to the upper half of that range.  Again, that doesn't mean I "need".  And I should mention my FIRE date of next year is not related so much to a stash target since I've already hit that, but to other things, just as Bateaux mentioned as well as personal things.

On the expense side, I didn't say $48,000 would be the total income I would need.  I said my stash should cover ~$1600/mo bare bones (notice the ~, which means it could be more or less, not exactly $1600 as you implied) and OVER $2400/mo discretionary (note the word "over", not exactly $2400 as you were implying that I stated.)  And when I add over $2400/mo discretionary spending to my budget, my tax rate will increase, so I'll also have to withdraw more to pay taxes as well.  Factor in a slightly lower WR of 3.9% due to investment expenses, and $1.3M is a reasonable stash figure using the 4% rule, but I could cut back some on the discretionary spending if needed, so I don't feel I need a big cushion beyond the option of cutting back if needed, despite all the talk about today's high stock valuations, CAPE10, and calls of the pending recession that some may use to justify a larger stash.

Quote
Now are you all saying that $24,000 is impossible to do in this day and age? You need $1.4 x 4% = $56,000 a year to make this work and feel comfortable to leave the corporate cubicles? Is it no longer possible to optimise, to hack, to minimise expenses? Is it no longer desirable to do so? Do you not want to do so in order to bring FIRE forward, or provide you with additional margin of safety?

With ACA subsidies, $24K would be fairly easy for me, as that's about $4K more than I estimate my bare bones FIRE expenses to be.  Fortunately, I've got a big enough stash that I can do some travel and explore more entertainment options during FIRE that I didn't have time to do during my career.  I've done very little traveling in my life, and maintained a very high savings rate during my career well before I ever heard of MMM, so when I FIRE, I will finally have the chance to do things I've had little opportunity to do over my working careeer.

Note - I do not work in a corporate or any other type of cubicle.  I used to work in a shared office with one or two others over the years, but last year, I finally got my own office, the type with real walls to the ceiling and a door.  It's quite peaceful.  My overtime is way down, my workload is better than it's ever been, I'm not having to train any other staff, and I work with very little supervision.  It's by far the best I've had it in 17 years on this job, so it feels like exactly the worst time to leave in that respect.  If I was stuck in a cubicle, chained to my desk, pushing papers, operating as a corporate drone, running the hamster wheel, or bored out of my mind, then I would certainly feel more of an urgency to leave.  I don't have a family at home waiting for me, so there's that, too.

Quote
If $56,000 is your number, then fine. But if MMM were reading this he'd be telling you $56,000 is an exploding volcano of wastefulness worth of spending.

I'm actually planning about $50K/yr spending during FIRE, but then taxes and investment expenses bring that up closer to $52K/yr that needs to be funded from the stash.  So, $1.3M at the low end of my stash range is just right, while $1.4M is just an added cushion, but I don't plan to draw extra from the stash beyond what I just mentioned.  It would just be a cushion.  Also, I have no pensions in my future, although I hope to get SS benefits after 15 years of FIRE.

I'm not FIRED yet, and my actual spending through the first 6 months of this year is averaging less than $1400/mo.  I have very low cost healthcare costs while working.  I haven't done any traveling in years.  I'm not sure how that compares with MMM.

Edit: Besides the uncertainty of ACA/healthcare, another big wild card for me is the potential of relocating sometime after I FIRE, which would involve selling my house in my somewhat LCOL area and relocating to another area, which may be not be as LCOL, or I might actually be able to cut my living costs by scaling down in another LCOL area.  A smaller wild card is working part time for a while will not be out of the question, although I wouldn't want to do it long term - maybe a year.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 08:34:45 PM by DreamFIRE »

spartana

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 260
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #68 on: July 10, 2018, 08:35:18 PM »
^ @marty998 is from Australia and may not realize that those in the US may need to pay $20K or more a year for health insurance and coverage if the ACA dies or, in some cases, even if it doesn't but premiums increase as well as out of pocket costs. Those of us who can FIRE on lower amounts generally have found a way to have lower cost or free medical.  So even if we don't need that extra cushion now, we may in the future.

What does MMM pay for health insurance? Anyone know?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 08:38:26 PM by spartana »

marty998

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5638
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #69 on: July 11, 2018, 05:07:13 AM »
^ @marty998 is from Australia and may not realize that those in the US may need to pay $20K or more a year for health insurance and coverage if the ACA dies or, in some cases, even if it doesn't but premiums increase as well as out of pocket costs. Those of us who can FIRE on lower amounts generally have found a way to have lower cost or free medical.  So even if we don't need that extra cushion now, we may in the future.

What does MMM pay for health insurance? Anyone know?

This is true - $20k for healthcare sounds insane for me. Thank you, I forget this sometimes when I start mouthing off here. Having said that, I am curious to know if there is any consumer organisation/movement/regulator in your country looking at this. I appreciate the worship of the almighty free market reigns supreme, but if I invoke the buzzword "disruption", surely the healthcare industry is ripe for it? Monopolistic excess profits simply can't last that long in a pure* free market.

I believe MMM "self-insures" - IIRC he said in a blog post he is comfortable taking the risk given his family does not have any chronic conditions or ongoing health needs.

* probably where the problem lies.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 05:12:43 AM by marty998 »

DreamFIRE

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1230
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #70 on: July 11, 2018, 05:03:18 PM »

When I FIRE, I want to be confident that the ACA will be in operation with subsidies for years to come, so hopefully we'll see democrats take control of one of the chambers of Congress with the results of the Nov. election.  That should stop any other attempts by the republicans to gut or repeal ACA from being successful.

The $1.3M stash assumes I'll get ACA subsidies, otherwise, I'll need a bigger stash.

teetootoo

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #71 on: July 11, 2018, 06:00:06 PM »
50ish
Family  Size: 4
NW: $3M
Not retired yet. No target number, but target age is 62/3.

Spicolli

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Age: 51
  • Location: California
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #72 on: July 12, 2018, 01:48:07 PM »
Ages: 51/50
Family: 1 kid (10)
Status: Not retired
NW: $1.3 M
House: owe $340K on $750K house
Pensions: $140K/year
FIRE dates: 2020 (spouse)...2022 (me)

Spouse will have military pension so health care shouldn't be an issue...we also have 2 years of GI Bill that will transfer to kid. Guess we could already FIRE but spouse is finishing up on military obligations.

spartana

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 260
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #73 on: July 13, 2018, 12:42:20 AM »
^ @marty998 is from Australia and may not realize that those in the US may need to pay $20K or more a year for health insurance and coverage if the ACA dies or, in some cases, even if it doesn't but premiums increase as well as out of pocket costs. Those of us who can FIRE on lower amounts generally have found a way to have lower cost or free medical.  So even if we don't need that extra cushion now, we may in the future.

What does MMM pay for health insurance? Anyone know?

This is true - $20k for healthcare sounds insane for me. Thank you, I forget this sometimes when I start mouthing off here. Having said that, I am curious to know if there is any consumer organisation/movement/regulator in your country looking at this. I appreciate the worship of the almighty free market reigns supreme, but if I invoke the buzzword "disruption", surely the healthcare industry is ripe for it? Monopolistic excess profits simply can't last that long in a pure* free market.

I believe MMM "self-insures" - IIRC he said in a blog post he is comfortable taking the risk given his family does not have any chronic conditions or ongoing health needs.

* probably where the problem lies.
I knew he self insurances his house but medical seems pretty risky for a middled age couple with a kid. But I guess he's rather save money and hope he never has a giant or long term medical situation, or a multi million dollar law suit if someone got injured on his property. Especially not footing the probably less than $500/year house insurance considering his asset levels. Medical insurance would be expense for him though as he wouldn't get subsidies because of his income.

Joan-eh?

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 294
  • Location: Toronto
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #74 on: September 17, 2018, 04:53:01 PM »
Hi There! just wondering where in Canada that you live.  It seems that its hard to compare USA and Canada experiences in costs.  Other than healthcare, it seems that USA is so much less expensive to live. I live in a High Cost of Living city :-(   but im from rural ontario - so may need to return there.

  For us choosing the snowbird location and costs is significant.

Loren Ver

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 204
  • Location: Indianapolis IN
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #75 on: September 18, 2018, 05:44:58 PM »
I'm glad to see some other less than 1 millions posting.  It convinced me to post.

Age: 36 me, 39 DH
Family size: 2

Current NW: $668k (As of Q2 2018)
House will be paid off before FIRE.  Worth between 80k and 110k.  We don't plan to move so never used in our numbers.

Fire Goal is actually a date, the day DH turns 40, so May 2019, estimated stash: $750,000+.
That is all from investments, no property, no rentals, no assets, no pensions, no inheritance, no other special money generating circumstances.

We also have no intention of exchanging time for money any time in the future.  No side hustles, no business plans, no blogs.

Our cushion is the ability to adjust our spending and we can do this because we kept our core expenses down.  Since it is being discussed our range is 24k to 36k per year, with the goal being around 30k until we pass the sequence of returns risk peak. 

This plan is higher risk than most seem to be willing to take, but we are done sitting in offices thinking about what we would be doing if we weren't sitting in offices.  We decided ANYTHING else we could be doing would be better, even if it involves spending less money in the down years. 

LV

Unique User

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 433
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #76 on: September 19, 2018, 08:51:50 AM »
Ages: 49 me, 56 DH, 16 DD
Current NW - $1.1M (not including primary residence and $75k for college after retirement)
NW at retirement - $1.2M (not including primary residence and $75k for college after retirement)
Pensions - none, but SS calculations show $20k each at 67

DD will be entering her sophomore year summer of 2020, retirement date is April 2020.  We're planning on selling everything and seeing the US in an RV for a couple years so I deducted the paid off value of my current home which is $350k.  I'd also like to spend a couple years slow traveling the world so house purchase could be put off.  No clue where we will live.  No problem to work part time for luxuries and extra $ for health insurance, both our jobs right now are soul sucking.  We have a lot of ideas on ways we could earn extra that we would enjoy so at this point if one (or both) of us lost our jobs, we'd be done earlier.  SS is low, but we didn't work at all for a couple years when our daughter was young and spent 14 years in a resort area working only winters and summers. 
« Last Edit: Today at 06:46:53 AM by Unique User »

EnjoyIt

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1049
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #77 on: September 19, 2018, 10:40:13 AM »
I would like to explain how some people may choose a much higher NW to fire.  I will use us as an example.

We prefer to stay in this higher cost of living area to take care of my parents.  That a one is running us about 20k/yr.  We prefer to pay for college and maybe grad school $250k.  We love to travel and our travel budget is our largest expense $30k/yr.  We do some mild travel hacking and hope to cut this expense lower when we FIRE.  If we will be spending that much money we will likely be needing to buy health insurance since we are out of subsidy range as well as pay for the deductible $20k/yr.  As you can see we haven't even bought groceries or spent money on heating our home and already need a stash of $2 million.  We are planning on building a bit of a cushion as well to allow for some slow lifestyle creep as well as requiring to purchase assistance as we age.   Having $2.5 million seams reasonable compared to our income and our age.

Sure we can travel less and force my parents to relocate, but if we are young, don't hate our work, and can work part time, then why not go for the larger stache?  If we were sitting in soul sucking cubicles every day, we would have FIRED a long time ago.

oldtoyota

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3034
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #78 on: September 19, 2018, 10:56:28 AM »
This thread is a sign of times ... so many FIRE numbers above $1.5m excluding a paid off house!

This is enough to basically have a FIRED income of $60,000 forever and still keep growing your stash under literally all conditions.

I am a hypocrite because I will want to do this too, but damn, can any of us really call ourselves mustachian anymore?

I wonder if it's a sign most responders live in HCOL areas?

oldtoyota

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3034
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #79 on: September 19, 2018, 10:59:33 AM »
...Now, like Pete, I'm ultimately more profitable since quitting my job and just focusing on living my best life.

Pete's arbitrary FI number is actually virtually irrelevant in the big picture of his finances. It was just a security blanket that allowed him to finally take the jump and live his best life.

This is similar to me. I left a job to do my own thing. I have a good financial foundation and can focus more on passions.

ninja

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #80 on: September 19, 2018, 01:17:24 PM »
I'm in a bad/good place.
My NW is negative 20K but it's increasing by around 3500/month right now.
I receive a military retirement/pension of about 4500/month - paying now, not at retirement age

I'm hoping to quit my day job around October 2019 when some of our financed items are paid off and letting me side-gig selling coffee take over and maybe grow that into a full-blown coffee shop.

oldtoyota

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3034
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #81 on: September 19, 2018, 02:18:55 PM »
I'm glad to see some other less than 1 millions posting.  It convinced me to post.

Age: 36 me, 39 DH
Family size: 2

Current NW: $668k (As of Q2 2018)
House will be paid off before FIRE.  Worth between 80k and 110k.  We don't plan to move so never used in our numbers.

Fire Goal is actually a date, the day DH turns 40, so May 2019, estimated stash: $750,000+.
That is all from investments, no property, no rentals, no assets, no pensions, no inheritance, no other special money generating circumstances.

We also have no intention of exchanging time for money any time in the future.  No side hustles, no business plans, no blogs.

Our cushion is the ability to adjust our spending and we can do this because we kept our core expenses down.  Since it is being discussed our range is 24k to 36k per year, with the goal being around 30k until we pass the sequence of returns risk peak. 

This plan is higher risk than most seem to be willing to take, but we are done sitting in offices thinking about what we would be doing if we weren't sitting in offices.  We decided ANYTHING else we could be doing would be better, even if it involves spending less money in the down years. 

LV

I'm glad you posted. Thank you!

It's good to see a range, and there's no hard and fast rule about what is right. It's cool to see what you guys are planning to do. =-)

Loren Ver

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 204
  • Location: Indianapolis IN
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #82 on: September 20, 2018, 04:46:33 AM »
I'm glad to see some other less than 1 millions posting.  It convinced me to post.

Age: 36 me, 39 DH
Family size: 2

Current NW: $668k (As of Q2 2018)
House will be paid off before FIRE.  Worth between 80k and 110k.  We don't plan to move so never used in our numbers.

Fire Goal is actually a date, the day DH turns 40, so May 2019, estimated stash: $750,000+.
That is all from investments, no property, no rentals, no assets, no pensions, no inheritance, no other special money generating circumstances.

We also have no intention of exchanging time for money any time in the future.  No side hustles, no business plans, no blogs.

Our cushion is the ability to adjust our spending and we can do this because we kept our core expenses down.  Since it is being discussed our range is 24k to 36k per year, with the goal being around 30k until we pass the sequence of returns risk peak. 

This plan is higher risk than most seem to be willing to take, but we are done sitting in offices thinking about what we would be doing if we weren't sitting in offices.  We decided ANYTHING else we could be doing would be better, even if it involves spending less money in the down years. 

LV

I'm glad you posted. Thank you!

It's good to see a range, and there's no hard and fast rule about what is right. It's cool to see what you guys are planning to do. =-)

:)

Trifele

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1476
  • Location: US
Re: What's your networth when you FIRE'd
« Reply #83 on: September 20, 2018, 07:31:34 AM »
Another 'skinnier' stash report:

Us:  51 and 51 y.o., FIREing early 2019.
Family size:  4 (kids are 15 and 12)
Stash:  $760k invested plus $150k in college 529 plans = $910k.
House is paid off and not included in these figures.  We are in a high real-estate value area.

So our retirement stash is $760k, which will hopefully throw off $30k per year for us, which meets our needs.  I have a side gig for a little cushion post FIRE, but (a) it's not guaranteed, and (b) we could live without it.

Good to see a few others that are planning to take the leap without a million plus invested.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 07:35:39 AM by Trifele »