What's Your Disability?

[frugalnacho]

Have any of the headache sufferers tried a Paleo, no wheat or grains, diet?

Here's a link to Dr. Mercola's post on headaches -- http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/01/22/migraine-headaches.aspx

I didn't realize how common headaches are.

No I haven't.  "Dr." Mercola is a quack though.  I wouldn't take any of his advice.

[athenap]

I have, initially not so much for health reasons but for vanity - low carbing/ketogenic or cycling carbs, for years (at least 15), on and off.  Have not observed any appreciable effect on headaches. Used to be fairly immune to modest amounts of alcohol, now can't tolerate beer or wine, but surprisingly ok with scotch or tequila (not that I indulge, not worth the risk). But generally for myself, I have never noticed any foods as a trigger. Barometric pressure changes, stress, hormone fluctuation (am a female), tension used to be triggers for episodic migraines, now it does not need any triggers, it's perfectly happy just hanging here with me :)

Used to get terrible sinus infections, to the point that had to have a sinus surgery, where they removed polyps and part of a bone in 2002 - did not do much for headaches except move them from behind one eye to another, but sinus pressure is better and far fewer infections now.

Have any of the headache sufferers tried a Paleo, no wheat or grains, diet?

Here's a link to Dr. Mercola's post on headaches -- http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/01/22/migraine-headaches.aspx

I didn't realize how common headaches are.

No I haven't.  "Dr." Mercola is a quack though.  I wouldn't take any of his advice.

[athenap]

Fruganacho, if it's really "tension" headaches (something in your heck, face, jaw, shoulders causing it), I found that a good physical therapist can help. I have come in with a throbbing headache in an eye (that's after nerve blocks and botox injections in the head and neck the same week) and he manipulated something in my face and I left without throbbing pain.Felt like a freaking miracle. Mind you, I've been to the same guy and he worked on other issues (terribly tight neck/shoulders, TMJ) and that did not bring relief - but he also showed me what I can do at home to find those trigger points and massage them to release the knots.

Migraines on the other hand are believed to be a disease of an oversensitive central nervous system (at least it seems to be the current thinking) and so while removing the tension sources will undoubtedly help, it won't necessarily remove all triggers if there are others. But for a classic migraine, a lot of people respond to triptans in order to abort them if taken early enough during the attack. I tend to overdo them, so I have to be careful there.

I've had mine since I was 8 so yeah, I feel your pain, so to speak...

Easier said than done.  I've had head ache problems for as long as I can remember, at least since jr high.  They usually happen on one side of my head (not the same side each time, and sometimes both sides, but usually one) and feel like they are behind my eye.  I had several sinus infections when I was younger and had terrible headaches from that (or so I was told).  It may have been a different type of headache that just coincidentally happened during my sinus infections, because I also get them when I have no sinus infection or congestion of any sort.  I have not noticed anything that triggers them (besides tobacco smoke which triggers them hard core), they seem to just happen all the time regardless of what's going on in my life. 

[frugalnacho]

Fruganacho, if it's really "tension" headaches (something in your heck, face, jaw, shoulders causing it), I found that a good physical therapist can help. I have come in with a throbbing headache in an eye (that's after nerve blocks and botox injections in the head and neck the same week) and he manipulated something in my face and I left without throbbing pain.Felt like a freaking miracle. Mind you, I've been to the same guy and he worked on other issues (terribly tight neck/shoulders, TMJ) and that did not bring relief - but he also showed me what I can do at home to find those trigger points and massage them to release the knots.

Migraines on the other hand are believed to be a disease of an oversensitive central nervous system (at least it seems to be the current thinking) and so while removing the tension sources will undoubtedly help, it won't necessarily remove all triggers if there are others. But for a classic migraine, a lot of people respond to triptans in order to abort them if taken early enough during the attack. I tend to overdo them, so I have to be careful there.

I've had mine since I was 8 so yeah, I feel your pain, so to speak...

Easier said than done.  I've had head ache problems for as long as I can remember, at least since jr high.  They usually happen on one side of my head (not the same side each time, and sometimes both sides, but usually one) and feel like they are behind my eye.  I had several sinus infections when I was younger and had terrible headaches from that (or so I was told).  It may have been a different type of headache that just coincidentally happened during my sinus infections, because I also get them when I have no sinus infection or congestion of any sort.  I have not noticed anything that triggers them (besides tobacco smoke which triggers them hard core), they seem to just happen all the time regardless of what's going on in my life. 

The headaches I get are almost exactly the same as the migraines I get, except the migraine is much more intense and is accompanied by extreme sensitivity to light and sound, and a nauseous feeling. I have not been diagnosed with migraines, but that's what they seem like to me. 

[tofuchampion]

http://www.4degreez.com/misc/personality_disorder_test.mv)

Schizoid and Narcissistic, hmm.  I'd never heard of Schizoid before.

I scored "very high" for Avoidant, and "high" for Schizoid and Avoidant.  I'm very non-trusting and tend to think that people are only pretending to like me but are actually thinking negative things about me and/or talking about me behind my back.  Probably because I grew up watching my mother treat people like that.

In real life, I have been diagnosed with GAD and have been bulimic to some extent for nearly 15 years.  It's manageable these days, and I don't consider any of it a disability, though at its worst, it definitely interfered with my ability to work/go to school/generally be productive.

[Bob W]

Have any of the headache sufferers tried a Paleo, no wheat or grains, diet?

Here's a link to Dr. Mercola's post on headaches -- http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/01/22/migraine-headaches.aspx

I didn't realize how common headaches are.

No I haven't.  "Dr." Mercola is a quack though.  I wouldn't take any of his advice.

I'm guessing you haven't read much of his work.  Seems to me he most always shows data and studies to support his advice.   Perhaps we have differing definitions of quack?

[Emilyngh]

Have any of the headache sufferers tried a Paleo, no wheat or grains, diet?

Here's a link to Dr. Mercola's post on headaches -- http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/01/22/migraine-headaches.aspx

I didn't realize how common headaches are.

No I haven't.  "Dr." Mercola is a quack though.  I wouldn't take any of his advice.

I'm guessing you haven't read much of his work.  Seems to me he most always shows data and studies to support his advice.   Perhaps we have differing definitions of quack?

Yeah, definitely a quack ("quack" as defined as someone who has many official FDA warnings and orders to stop making illegal medical claims that are *not* supported by legit research).

http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/mercola.html

[eyePod]

I never shut up. I can talk to anyone whether they like it or not. I get migraines about two times a year. I have never broken a bone. My biggest surgery was for ingrown toenails.

[frugalnacho]

Have any of the headache sufferers tried a Paleo, no wheat or grains, diet?

Here's a link to Dr. Mercola's post on headaches -- http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/01/22/migraine-headaches.aspx

I didn't realize how common headaches are.

No I haven't.  "Dr." Mercola is a quack though.  I wouldn't take any of his advice.

I'm guessing you haven't read much of his work.  Seems to me he most always shows data and studies to support his advice.   Perhaps we have differing definitions of quack?

Yeah, definitely a quack ("quack" as defined as someone who has many official FDA warnings and orders to stop making illegal medical claims that are *not* supported by legit research).

http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/mercola.html

That and he is anti-vaccine.  Anyone that is anti-vaccine I view as being a dangerous idiot. 

I'm very skeptical of anyone that promotes "holistic", "alternative", or "natural" medicine (I generally view those to mean "has not been proven to work" medicine).

Another red flag to me is his association with naturalnews (which is an even worse offender of quackery than mercola).

I've read lots of his stuff (and lots of stuff on naturalnews.com), and been in countless debates with people over the validity of his claims and effectiveness of his advice.  He has absolutely zero credibility, and he should be avoided at all costs.  It's not even worth reading through his articles to try and differentiate between the good and bad advice, it's best to simply avoid him altogether.

[mlejw6]

Have any of the headache sufferers tried a Paleo, no wheat or grains, diet?

Here's a link to Dr. Mercola's post on headaches -- http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/01/22/migraine-headaches.aspx

I didn't realize how common headaches are.

I was told to eliminate dairy, sugar, and gluten from my diet for my headaches. It turns out, it was the gluten that was causing a lot of them. On gluten, I get about three or four minor headaches a week. Off it, I am down to a couple a month.

I think it really depends from person to person what causes headaches. Even different headaches are caused by different things. I've suffered since I was a child and the causes have evolved as I've grown older. Now, they are typically caused by weather changes, hormone changes, and gluten (and maybe sugar as well). I also have sinus issues that often produce headaches. If you look at a list of all the foods that can cause headaches and try to eliminate them, you will starve very quickly. Pretty much any food you can think of can cause headaches in certain people. It's luck just finding the correct one.

[Bob W]

Have any of the headache sufferers tried a Paleo, no wheat or grains, diet?

Here's a link to Dr. Mercola's post on headaches -- http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/01/22/migraine-headaches.aspx

I didn't realize how common headaches are.

No I haven't.  "Dr." Mercola is a quack though.  I wouldn't take any of his advice.

I'm guessing you haven't read much of his work.  Seems to me he most always shows data and studies to support his advice.   Perhaps we have differing definitions of quack?

Yeah, definitely a quack ("quack" as defined as someone who has many official FDA warnings and orders to stop making illegal medical claims that are *not* supported by legit research).

http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/mercola.html

That and he is anti-vaccine.  Anyone that is anti-vaccine I view as being a dangerous idiot. 

I'm very skeptical of anyone that promotes "holistic", "alternative", or "natural" medicine (I generally view those to mean "has not been proven to work" medicine).

Another red flag to me is his association with naturalnews (which is an even worse offender of quackery than mercola).

I've read lots of his stuff (and lots of stuff on naturalnews.com), and been in countless debates with people over the validity of his claims and effectiveness of his advice.  He has absolutely zero credibility, and he should be avoided at all costs.  It's not even worth reading through his articles to try and differentiate between the good and bad advice, it's best to simply avoid him altogether.

Hmmm,  I've only stumbled across Mercola with regards to diet and exercis and his recommendations  seemed straight on.   He seems to suggest diet and exercise over medication and surgery as a general rule.   He also has the most popular health web site out there apparently, which I didn't know until reading the link provided.    Since he is not into immunizations or fluoride this takes him out of the status quo drum beat of the medical community.  It doesn't necessarily make him more of a quack than any other Doc. 

For instance,  I'll never forget the day an obese doctor tried to prescribe me statin drugs the day after front page news came out that 3 of the leading statins not only didn't extend life but caused significant side effects such as liver damage.  Of course these statins had been pushed for many years with the narrative being they would extend your life.   I walked out of her office pretty quickly on that one. 
 
I really didn't mean this post to turn into a debate about who's medical advice to follow.   I follow my own.

Can we stick to the topic of disabilities.  If someone knows of success treating them it is nice to share.

[frugalnacho]

Hmmm,  I've only stumbled across Mercola with regards to diet and exercis and his recommendations  seemed straight on.   He seems to suggest diet and exercise over medication and surgery as a general rule.   He also has the most popular health web site out there apparently, which I didn't know until reading the link provided.    Since he is not into immunizations or fluoride this takes him out of the status quo drum beat of the medical community.  It doesn't necessarily make him more of a quack than any other Doc. 

For instance,  I'll never forget the day an obese doctor tried to prescribe me statin drugs the day after front page news came out that 3 of the leading statins not only didn't extend life but caused significant side effects such as liver damage.  Of course these statins had been pushed for many years with the narrative being they would extend your life.   I walked out of her office pretty quickly on that one. 
 
I really didn't mean this post to turn into a debate about who's medical advice to follow.   I follow my own.

Can we stick to the topic of disabilities.  If someone knows of success treating them it is nice to share.

I'm sure with everything he spouts that some of it is good solid advice, but that can be said for just about anyone.  But since I have read so much of his bad advice I consider him a tainted and unreliable source.  Him not being into immunizations and fluoride is precisely what makes him a quack though (among numerous other things).  The science behind immunization and fluoride is overwhelming and it is irresponsible of him (especially as a medical doctor) to advise people against it, and he deserves to be derided because of it.

That being said, I also think many medical doctors are quacks and act irresponsibly.  I know they have gone to medical school, but that doesn't mean they don't have personal biases, and fall prey to fallacious reasoning.  I don't meet many that promote homeopathy, or are anti-vaccine (that i'm aware of) because it doesn't come up, and I don't seek them out, but I still have met plenty of doctors I think are quacks and wouldn't take medical advice from.

[Daisy]

You are quite a character, frugalnacho. I guess anything that doesn’t fit your narrow worldview is a quack. Some of this “alternative” care is very non-alternative and common practice in other parts of the world over hundreds of years. I like how you quickly dismiss it out of hand as “quackery” just because the medical establishment in the US does not approve.

Now that I’ve experienced life on the other side of western medicine, listening to frugalnacho’s description of how his headaches affect his life really concerns me because it’s possible that if he had an open mind he could seek some “alternative” care that might help him. Maybe it won’t…I don’t know. But what he’s doing now is certainly NOT working:

- Doctors ignore or minimize his complaints of headaches and brush it aside
- Headaches are affecting his quality of life in a huge way
- He has to take sleeping pills which are hurting his liver in order to cope with the headaches
- Other pills he takes like acetometaphin don’t seem to be helping and may be hurting his liver too

Perhaps you should take a moment to think about your current care and how it’s NOT helping you, and rethink what the definition of quackery is. But hey, you seem to be happy with your current medical care so please continue on with that and don’t even think of another way of looking at your medical issues. Sweep those other ideas away with a broad brush and label them as quacks as you continue to suffer with your condition.

But for others, like I mentioned before, it can’t hurt to consult an “alternative” viewpoint. You don’t have to follow what they say, but you just might find some relief for your issues if you try.

[SwordGuy]

None.  Which in and of itself seems kind of abnormal since I'm currently doing software development...

I've known a lot of so-called software developers with developmental disabilities... :)

[frugalnacho]

You are quite a character, frugalnacho. I guess anything that doesn’t fit your narrow worldview is a quack. Some of this “alternative” care is very non-alternative and common practice in other parts of the world over hundreds of years. I like how you quickly dismiss it out of hand as “quackery” just because the medical establishment in the US does not approve.

Now that I’ve experienced life on the other side of western medicine, listening to frugalnacho’s description of how his headaches affect his life really concerns me because it’s possible that if he had an open mind he could seek some “alternative” care that might help him. Maybe it won’t…I don’t know. But what he’s doing now is certainly NOT working:

- Doctors ignore or minimize his complaints of headaches and brush it aside
- Headaches are affecting his quality of life in a huge way
- He has to take sleeping pills which are hurting his liver in order to cope with the headaches
- Other pills he takes like acetometaphin don’t seem to be helping and may be hurting his liver too

Perhaps you should take a moment to think about your current care and how it’s NOT helping you, and rethink what the definition of quackery is. But hey, you seem to be happy with your current medical care so please continue on with that and don’t even think of another way of looking at your medical issues. Sweep those other ideas away with a broad brush and label them as quacks as you continue to suffer with your condition.

But for others, like I mentioned before, it can’t hurt to consult an “alternative” viewpoint. You don’t have to follow what they say, but you just might find some relief for your issues if you try.

How is requiring that medical care and procedures be backed up by actual evidence a narrow world view?

I didn't quickly dismiss anything as quackery.  I dismissed homeopathy and "dr." mercola as quackery, because they are.  You are free to disagree with me.

I'm also not actively (nor have I ever) seeking medical for head aches. I've mentioned in when i've gone in for other unrelated reasons, but never specifically for that.

Also it can hurt to seek alternative medical advice.  Most of it is benign and simply ineffective, but much of it is actually dangerous, especially when it causes you to forgo actual, effective, evidence based treatment.

[Miaow1]

I have an official IQ of 84 and an Ivy League PhD. Does that count?

[Lyssa]

But for others, like I mentioned before, it can’t hurt to consult an “alternative” viewpoint. You don’t have to follow what they say, but you just might find some relief for your issues if you try.

It can. Most importantly by forgoing or delaying real treatment. Like already set above if I had taken all the good advice to try homeopathy/TCM/yoga in the moonlight/whatever my health would have gone downhill fast during the last years.

Children have died because their parents listened to the anti-vaccine quacks. Children have died because other parents listened to the anti-vaccine quacks.

I'd also like to ask you one question:

Can you name one example of any alternative med school ever having corrected itself? Like when western docs said "Sorry, guess we were wrong blaming your crappy mood for your ulcer. Seems it was helicobacter pylori all along...". One example of any such correction happening e.g. in homeopathy?

If not then you must either belief that magically they got everything right from the very beginning or conclude that it is in fact a belief system with no mechanism for self-correction.

[arebelspy]

What's your disability?

I'm lazy.

It's also what I would answer if the question said "What's your superpower?"

[Supertaster]

While I am biologically a human, women will often mistake me for a worthless pile of garbage.

Oh yeah, and some depression too.

[Daisy]

But for others, like I mentioned before, it can’t hurt to consult an “alternative” viewpoint. You don’t have to follow what they say, but you just might find some relief for your issues if you try.

It can. Most importantly by forgoing or delaying real treatment. Like already set above if I had taken all the good advice to try homeopathy/TCM/yoga in the moonlight/whatever my health would have gone downhill fast during the last years.

Children have died because their parents listened to the anti-vaccine quacks. Children have died because other parents listened to the anti-vaccine quacks.

I'd also like to ask you one question:

Can you name one example of any alternative med school ever having corrected itself? Like when western docs said "Sorry, guess we were wrong blaming your crappy mood for your ulcer. Seems it was helicobacter pylori all along...". One example of any such correction happening e.g. in homeopathy?

If not then you must either belief that magically they got everything right from the very beginning or conclude that it is in fact a belief system with no mechanism for self-correction.

That's great that you found relief for your issues and the source of your ill health. That's the whole point.

I don't think there's any one health philosophy that can solve all problems. So find what works, and try to help others in your life that may be suffering from the same thing and share what worked for you.

Errors and mis-diagnoses occur in all types of medicine.

[Lyssa]

But for others, like I mentioned before, it can’t hurt to consult an “alternative” viewpoint. You don’t have to follow what they say, but you just might find some relief for your issues if you try.

It can. Most importantly by forgoing or delaying real treatment. Like already set above if I had taken all the good advice to try homeopathy/TCM/yoga in the moonlight/whatever my health would have gone downhill fast during the last years.

Children have died because their parents listened to the anti-vaccine quacks. Children have died because other parents listened to the anti-vaccine quacks.

I'd also like to ask you one question:

Can you name one example of any alternative med school ever having corrected itself? Like when western docs said "Sorry, guess we were wrong blaming your crappy mood for your ulcer. Seems it was helicobacter pylori all along...". One example of any such correction happening e.g. in homeopathy?

If not then you must either belief that magically they got everything right from the very beginning or conclude that it is in fact a belief system with no mechanism for self-correction.

That's great that you found relief for your issues and the source of your ill health.

I did not. I managed to reach a "plateau" and to prevent a fast decline. That's all science has to offer for me for the time being. But the alternatives are much worse.

Reality can be quite frustrating. To ignore hard facts because of frustration is plain dangerous. Not so much in case of skin conditions and not in case of migraines. But for every cancer patient, people with degenerative diseases etc "just do what feels right..." is not only useless but potentially harmful or even lethal.

[goatmom]

I am not sure what this topic is about or if it just went astray, I took a peek as dh is in midst of getting his eval by the VA.  VA disability is interesting because you can be 100 percent disabled and still hold a full time job. There is no limit on earnings. Their definition of disability is different from the usual one. Although with how long it takes you might be dead by the time you get approved!

[skunkfunk]

I have an official IQ of 84 and an Ivy League PhD. Does that count?

WAT

Clearly there is some sort of mistake here, right?

On another note, I am ADHD. Take meds and all, but do pretty well for myself anyway.

[Bob W]

I have an official IQ of 84 and an Ivy League PhD. Does that count?

WAT

Clearly there is some sort of mistake here, right?

On another note, I am ADHD. Take meds and all, but do pretty well for myself anyway.

I think Andy Warhol's IQ was reported to be in the 80s.   Above 80 typically isn't qualified as a developmental disability.  My guess is that this is a Princeton grad. lol

[skunkfunk]

I have an official IQ of 84 and an Ivy League PhD. Does that count?

WAT

Clearly there is some sort of mistake here, right?

On another note, I am ADHD. Take meds and all, but do pretty well for myself anyway.

I think Andy Warhol's IQ was reported to be in the 80s.   Above 80 typically isn't qualified as a developmental disability.  My guess is that this is a Princeton grad. lol

My guess is that our evaluations suck. There is a kid at my wife's school who tested out at low 80s, just too high for special ed or any special considerations. He's practically a drooling idiot. Realistically, he's mentally retarded, and all of his teachers can tell but the IQ test did not bear it out.

[Bob W]

I have an official IQ of 84 and an Ivy League PhD. Does that count?

WAT

Clearly there is some sort of mistake here, right?

On another note, I am ADHD. Take meds and all, but do pretty well for myself anyway.

I think Andy Warhol's IQ was reported to be in the 80s.   Above 80 typically isn't qualified as a developmental disability.  My guess is that this is a Princeton grad. lol

My guess is that our evaluations suck. There is a kid at my wife's school who tested out at low 80s, just too high for special ed or any special considerations. He's practically a drooling idiot. Realistically, he's mentally retarded, and all of his teachers can tell but the IQ test did not bear it out.

( Just so you don't get in trouble,  Idiot is a classification term that went out years ago and is now considered derogatory much as the term retarded is.)  Some people drool but that doesn't make them less smart.   If in fact he is above 80 it would benefit him to take regular classes with some pop in assistance.   Most of my guys I work with that would be considered Mild MR (just around 80) just appear to be good ole boys that don't read well or do great at math.  Most of them have great personalities and are much loved. 

I think IQ tests vary greatly though.  I recently tested while I was testing for Asperger's and came out with a  high score not reflected in my actual experience.   It appears my super power is thinking out of the box but I really think that is considered a disability and frowned on in most circles. 

[skunkfunk]

I have an official IQ of 84 and an Ivy League PhD. Does that count?

WAT

Clearly there is some sort of mistake here, right?

On another note, I am ADHD. Take meds and all, but do pretty well for myself anyway.

I think Andy Warhol's IQ was reported to be in the 80s.   Above 80 typically isn't qualified as a developmental disability.  My guess is that this is a Princeton grad. lol

My guess is that our evaluations suck. There is a kid at my wife's school who tested out at low 80s, just too high for special ed or any special considerations. He's practically a drooling idiot. Realistically, he's mentally retarded, and all of his teachers can tell but the IQ test did not bear it out.

( Just so you don't get in trouble,  Idiot is a classification term that went out years ago and is now considered derogatory much as the term retarded is.)  Some people drool but that doesn't make them less smart.   If in fact he is above 80 it would benefit him to take regular classes with some pop in assistance.   Most of my guys I work with that would be considered Mild MR (just around 80) just appear to be good ole boys that don't read well or do great at math.  Most of them have great personalities and are much loved. 

Sorry for the offense, I'm not up on all that apparently (I use drooling idiot as a figure of speech, despite his actual drooling in this instance.) I will henceforth not call anybody MR an idiot. The guy isn't just a normal guy though, he really can't function well. I mean, you can tell him to tie his shoes (or sit down or whatever,) he'll say OK, and then won't do it because he doesn't know what you said despite his knowing English. Maybe he's got something in there, but he has problems getting it out if it is in there. He needs help, agreed, and they won't give it to him because he passed the test.

I think some just don't have a talent for something like math, while typically those guys will be good at other stuff. I'd look dumb trying to install commercial fire sprinkler piping through a wall next to those skilled workers, and some of them might look dumb trying write technical specifications alongside me.

I'm getting on quite the tangent here, but I do have some dissatisfaction knowing that some of the guys actually building this stuff make much less money at a seemingly more important job with just as much (if not more) real difficulty.

[skunkfunk]

I must correct and rescind earlier comments. The child in question scored a 70 on his test, not low 80s. According to my wife, that was one point too high for special services.

70 is quite a lot lower than 80s.

[AgileTurtle]

I have an official IQ of 84 and an Ivy League PhD. Does that count?

I really hope this is true.

[AgileTurtle]

Have any of the headache sufferers tried a Paleo, no wheat or grains, diet?

Here's a link to Dr. Mercola's post on headaches -- http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/01/22/migraine-headaches.aspx

I didn't realize how common headaches are.

Wife tried, it didnt really make a difference. Same amount of migraines. We gave it a few months.  The most funny thing I learned from going paleo is that I feel better eating bread than not. Dairy on the other hand causes sinus and inflammation to me. Gluten is my friend, what ever it is.

[Raay]

There's this guy Sam Vaknin who's built a business by declaring himself a narcissist/psychopath and writing books and videos about it. He becomes very annoyed when you tell him he's not a genuine psychopath and that he got his degree from a diploma mill.

If I don't trust the psychiatric bullshit, does it mean that I am paranoid? Probably!

[Bob W]

There's this guy Sam Vaknin who's built a business by declaring himself a narcissist/psychopath and writing books and videos about it. He becomes very annoyed when you tell him he's not a genuine psychopath and that he got his degree from a diploma mill.

If I don't trust the psychiatric bullshit, does it mean that I am paranoid? Probably!

Your probably just paranoid.  Trusting a psychiatrist would only makes a person foolish. lol

I heard an NPR bit on Narcissistic personalities.  Seems I'm in pretty good company as they listed virtually every US president in the last 60 years as having that trait.  My guess would be that they are also well along the sociopath curve as well.   A high percentage of CEOs fit this mold as well.  Seems that personality wise there is very little difference between the average CEO and the average hard core criminal in our jails.

An other interesting aside, not too far off topic, is for bullies.  Seems another NPR bit noted that bullies tend to end up much happier and successful in life.  Makes sense as they don't appear shy about getting what they want.

So it would seem counter productive for the current anti bully bashing that is all the rage in schools.  Statistically we should be as supportive of them as we are of the LGBT folks.  They are just another personality type.   Perhaps we would be better served channeling their bully energy into productive areas.  Just a thought.   

[arebelspy]

Bullies hurt others. LGBT folks don't.

We definitely need to help the bullies, not vilify them, but your analogy is way off.

[Bob W]

Bullies hurt others. LGBT folks don't.

We definitely need to help the bullies, not vilify them, but your analogy is way off.

I believe I closed with "channeling their bully energy into productive areas?" 

Who pissed in your cheerios? lol

[arebelspy]

Bullies hurt others. LGBT folks don't.

We definitely need to help the bullies, not vilify them, but your analogy is way off.

I believe I closed with "channeling their bully energy into productive areas?" 

Who pissed in your cheerios? lol

Right, and I was agreeing with that part, thus my sentence that started "we definitely."  That doesn't make the rest of it correct.

And calling you out for a poor analogy doesn't mean I'm upset or anyone "pissed in my Cheerios" as you put it. It just means I don't approve of you likening bullies to LGBT people, and am willing to say so.  I don't see anything in my post that warrants you saying that.  What exactly have you that impression?

[skunkfunk]

Bullies hurt others. LGBT folks don't.

We definitely need to help the bullies, not vilify them, but your analogy is way off.

I believe I closed with "channeling their bully energy into productive areas?" 

Who pissed in your cheerios? lol

Arebelspy  likes to argue given the slightest opportunity. That said, I do find your opinion on nurturing bullies strange. Can you flesh that out a little?

[Raay]

There's this guy Sam Vaknin who's built a business by declaring himself a narcissist/psychopath and writing books and videos about it. He becomes very annoyed when you tell him he's not a genuine psychopath and that he got his degree from a diploma mill.

If I don't trust the psychiatric bullshit, does it mean that I am paranoid? Probably!

Your probably just paranoid.  Trusting a psychiatrist would only makes a person foolish. lol

I heard an NPR bit on Narcissistic personalities.  Seems I'm in pretty good company as they listed virtually every US president in the last 60 years as having that trait.  My guess would be that they are also well along the sociopath curve as well.   A high percentage of CEOs fit this mold as well.  Seems that personality wise there is very little difference between the average CEO and the average hard core criminal in our jails.

An other interesting aside, not too far off topic, is for bullies.  Seems another NPR bit noted that bullies tend to end up much happier and successful in life.  Makes sense as they don't appear shy about getting what they want.

So it would seem counter productive for the current anti bully bashing that is all the rage in schools.  Statistically we should be as supportive of them as we are of the LGBT folks.  They are just another personality type.   Perhaps we would be better served channeling their bully energy into productive areas.  Just a thought.

I suspect that the "most CEOs are psychopaths" meme has more to do with a certain ideology than science. Or do you think there's hard data from CEOs who have diligently filled out psychopathy questionnaires? Regarding people who claim such things, I would be interested in a study of incidence of the "sucker envy" mental disorder in general population (or is it classified "normality" rather than a disorder?). There's a popular worldview that anyone who is publicly regarded as successful (and God forbid very rich) must be an exploitative crook, and if they don't appear to be a crook, just wait, it only means that they haven't been caught/exposed yet. AKA guilty until proved innocent, characteristic for various "people's" movements throughout history who utilized pitchforks and other similar instruments of democracy.

[frugalnacho]

I suspect that the "most CEOs are psychopaths" meme has more to do with a certain ideology than science. Or do you think there's hard data from CEOs who have diligently filled out psychopathy questionnaires? Regarding people who claim such things, I would be interested in a study of incidence of the "sucker envy" mental disorder in general population (or is it classified "normality" rather than a disorder?). There's a popular worldview that anyone who is publicly regarded as successful (and God forbid very rich) must be an exploitative crook, and if they don't appear to be a crook, just wait, it only means that they haven't been caught/exposed yet. AKA guilty until proved innocent, characteristic for various "people's" movements throughout history who utilized pitchforks and other similar instruments of democracy.

Is it just me or is there obvious natural selection process that leads to more psychopaths in CEO positions? Kind of like how basketball players are much taller than the average population, because they have a natural advantage, similar to how someone with psychopathic traits has a lot of advantages on their way to CEO. 

Just because someone is a psychopath doesn't mean they are the same as a hard core criminal though.

[AgileTurtle]

There's this guy Sam Vaknin who's built a business by declaring himself a narcissist/psychopath and writing books and videos about it. He becomes very annoyed when you tell him he's not a genuine psychopath and that he got his degree from a diploma mill.

If I don't trust the psychiatric bullshit, does it mean that I am paranoid? Probably!

Your probably just paranoid.  Trusting a psychiatrist would only makes a person foolish. lol

I heard an NPR bit on Narcissistic personalities.  Seems I'm in pretty good company as they listed virtually every US president in the last 60 years as having that trait.  My guess would be that they are also well along the sociopath curve as well.   A high percentage of CEOs fit this mold as well.  Seems that personality wise there is very little difference between the average CEO and the average hard core criminal in our jails.

An other interesting aside, not too far off topic, is for bullies.  Seems another NPR bit noted that bullies tend to end up much happier and successful in life.  Makes sense as they don't appear shy about getting what they want.

So it would seem counter productive for the current anti bully bashing that is all the rage in schools.  Statistically we should be as supportive of them as we are of the LGBT folks.  They are just another personality type.   Perhaps we would be better served channeling their bully energy into productive areas.  Just a thought.

I suspect that the "most CEOs are psychopaths" meme has more to do with a certain ideology than science. Or do you think there's hard data from CEOs who have diligently filled out psychopathy questionnaires? Regarding people who claim such things, I would be interested in a study of incidence of the "sucker envy" mental disorder in general population (or is it classified "normality" rather than a disorder?). There's a popular worldview that anyone who is publicly regarded as successful (and God forbid very rich) must be an exploitative crook, and if they don't appear to be a crook, just wait, it only means that they haven't been caught/exposed yet. AKA guilty until proved innocent, characteristic for various "people's" movements throughout history who utilized pitchforks and other similar instruments of democracy.

The Psychopath Test: A Journey Through the Madness Industry by Jon Ronson  addresses this exact thing.

[GuitarStv]

Not CEOs, but apparently stock brokers are less risk averse, more manipulative, and more likely to inflict harm on others than psychopaths - even when it didn't personally benefit themselves.  (http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/going-rogue-share-traders-more-reckless-than-psychopaths-study-shows-a-788462.html)

[Bob W]

Bullies hurt others. LGBT folks don't.

We definitely need to help the bullies, not vilify them, but your analogy is way off.

I believe I closed with "channeling their bully energy into productive areas?" 

Who pissed in your cheerios? lol

Right, and I was agreeing with that part, thus my sentence that started "we definitely."  That doesn't make the rest of it correct.

And calling you out for a poor analogy doesn't mean I'm upset or anyone "pissed in my Cheerios" as you put it. It just means I don't approve of you likening bullies to LGBT people, and am willing to say so.  I don't see anything in my post that warrants you saying that.  What exactly have you that impression?

   "Bullies hurt others. LGBT folks don't"   --- I could have been a cup of coffee short when I read that.   I misread the implication here was that somehow the LGBT personality is superior to the bully personality. 

I'm sure that was a mistake on my part.  My apologies.

"Bullies hurt others. LGBT folks don't"  ---  (for others joining the discussion)  This is probably a misstatement on arebelspy's part.  If you go to the literature you will find that LGs initiate a much higher rate of domestic abuse than heteros. (thus they hurt people and at almost twice the rate)  And these two personality groups are not mutually exclusive personality groupings, as in many bullies are also LGBT.    So it is a factual that at least a decent percent of LGs hurt people physically.  (I'm not saying all by the way)

In my personal family experience I have a grandson and a nephew who fall into each of the groupings. One individual has been much more hurtful to the family than the other.   I'll not say which one.
 
To get back to our original thread theme -  "What's your disability?"   

Let me state that both LGBT people and Bully people have at one time or another been vilified or cast as disabled.   I would like the dis to be removed from that, especially with my new found information that bullies generally end up much happier and successful than nonbullies.      (makes me happier knowing my bully family member can look forward to great success and happiness even though our family is generally negative and very unsupportive of him)

[Primm]

Bullies hurt others. LGBT folks don't.

We definitely need to help the bullies, not vilify them, but your analogy is way off.

I believe I closed with "channeling their bully energy into productive areas?" 

Who pissed in your cheerios? lol

Right, and I was agreeing with that part, thus my sentence that started "we definitely."  That doesn't make the rest of it correct.

And calling you out for a poor analogy doesn't mean I'm upset or anyone "pissed in my Cheerios" as you put it. It just means I don't approve of you likening bullies to LGBT people, and am willing to say so.  I don't see anything in my post that warrants you saying that.  What exactly have you that impression?

Must be the self-declared narcissistic part of his personality. It's all about Bob, remember? ;)

And the smiley face means he can't get snarky with me, because if you finish a comment with lol or :) then all is ok on the interwebz.

:)

[Lyssa]

There's this guy Sam Vaknin who's built a business by declaring himself a narcissist/psychopath and writing books and videos about it. He becomes very annoyed when you tell him he's not a genuine psychopath and that he got his degree from a diploma mill.

If I don't trust the psychiatric bullshit, does it mean that I am paranoid? Probably!

Your probably just paranoid.  Trusting a psychiatrist would only makes a person foolish. lol

I heard an NPR bit on Narcissistic personalities.  Seems I'm in pretty good company as they listed virtually every US president in the last 60 years as having that trait.  My guess would be that they are also well along the sociopath curve as well.   A high percentage of CEOs fit this mold as well.  Seems that personality wise there is very little difference between the average CEO and the average hard core criminal in our jails.

An other interesting aside, not too far off topic, is for bullies.  Seems another NPR bit noted that bullies tend to end up much happier and successful in life.   

Does not line up with my experience (which is not data, I know). Pretty much all the bullies I've met during my school career do not have little success today. Which makes sense for me since having good grades and being nerdy (so uncool...) serves you better in adult life then early experiences with alcohol and other drugs along with mediocre or even bad grades (but all the cool kids are doing it!).

Whereas when I met one of the most frequently bullied kids a few years later he seemed to be a very different person compared to the shy, abused and sad kid I remembered.

[Bob W]

Bullies hurt others. LGBT folks don't.

We definitely need to help the bullies, not vilify them, but your analogy is way off.

I believe I closed with "channeling their bully energy into productive areas?" 

Who pissed in your cheerios? lol

Right, and I was agreeing with that part, thus my sentence that started "we definitely."  That doesn't make the rest of it correct.

And calling you out for a poor analogy doesn't mean I'm upset or anyone "pissed in my Cheerios" as you put it. It just means I don't approve of you likening bullies to LGBT people, and am willing to say so.  I don't see anything in my post that warrants you saying that.  What exactly have you that impression?

Must be the self-declared narcissistic part of his personality. It's all about Bob, remember? ;)

And the smiley face means he can't get snarky with me, because if you finish a comment with lol or :) then all is ok on the interwebz.

:)

;)

[totoro]

Where is the study that sets out that bullies end up happier and more successful?

I would believe that success is correlated with social skills which is likely correlated with popularity in school, but I don't see a correlation between bullying and success among my cohort.  I do see a correlation between academic performance and career success.  I also see a correlation between family of origin health and happiness.

[tracylayton]

Hard of hearing, but I can tune out unruly children on airplanes...so, it has its pros.

[Raay]

As for psychopaths and CEOs and natural selection...

I wonder whether some character traits that let you deal with (often difficult or hostile) people easily might be simply confused with psychopathic traits. For example, a high-ranking manager's actions may appear ruthless to casual onlookers and his reasoning may appear overly cold and analytical while his external demeanor may appear as superficially charming. But what if these are steps consciously undertaken for the benefit of the managed enterprise (or for some other "higher purpose") rather than in blatant self-interest? What if the purported "psychopath" does in fact fill empathetic inside, but realizes that he may not act upon emotions directly if he wants to avoid a failure on a grander scale? Do psychopathy tests have enough resolution to make such fine distinctions? Or would they rather classify the individual as a psychopath who is in denial of his viciousness?

Note how high-ranking people tend to have, besides of a long "track record" of verifiable successes, a high degree of personal integrity and a refined capability for gaining and dispensing trust. Often they are admired by associates and underlings. To say that they are "charismatic" makes more sense to me than to put them in one bag with the simpleton "world is dog-eat-dog and I'm a cunning back-stabber" attitude of inmates (or bullies). I believe you can be a master manipulator and still a good guy at the same time.

[Bob W]

As for psychopaths and CEOs and natural selection...

I wonder whether some character traits that let you deal with (often difficult or hostile) people easily might be simply confused with psychopathic traits. For example, a high-ranking manager's actions may appear ruthless to casual onlookers and his reasoning may appear overly cold and analytical while his external demeanor may appear as superficially charming. But what if these are steps consciously undertaken for the benefit of the managed enterprise (or for some other "higher purpose") rather than in blatant self-interest? What if the purported "psychopath" does in fact fill empathetic inside, but realizes that he may not act upon emotions directly if he wants to avoid a failure on a grander scale? Do psychopathy tests have enough resolution to make such fine distinctions? Or would they rather classify the individual as a psychopath who is in denial of his viciousness?

Note how high-ranking people tend to have, besides of a long "track record" of verifiable successes, a high degree of personal integrity and a refined capability for gaining and dispensing trust. Often they are admired by associates and underlings. To say that they are "charismatic" makes more sense to me than to put them in one bag with the simpleton "world is dog-eat-dog and I'm a cunning back-stabber" attitude of inmates (or bullies). I believe you can be a master manipulator and still a good guy at the same time.

You're probably right.  I'm not an expert by any stretch.  I would put the psychopath personality as not a disability though.  More of a trait.  Some of their top listed traits include:  •charm and average intelligence.
•Absence of delusions and other signs of irrational thinking.
•Absence of nervousness or neurotic manifestations.

Those traits would work well in a business, war or emergency situations.   According to this article CEOs have 4 times the incidence of these traits as the general population.   

Read more: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/drishtikone/2013/10/are-ceos-and-entrepreneurs-psychopaths-multiple-studies-say-yes/#ixzz3Jd6Ns94X