Poll

We all have something we aim for, so what are you aiming for?  Full retirement, ie, not working/hustling/part-time/etc (Per person that will be supported at least 5 years after pulling the trigger)

< $25k
53 (21.1%)
$25k to < $50k
114 (45.4%)
$50k to < $75k
44 (17.5%)
$75k to < $100k
24 (9.6%)
$100k to < $125k
10 (4%)
$125k to < $150k
3 (1.2%)
$150k or more
3 (1.2%)

Total Members Voted: 251

Author Topic: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)  (Read 2572 times)

sparkytheop

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Since I couldn't really answer the poll in the post-FIRE thread, but am still curious.

Obviously everyone is different (reason for the personal in personal finance).

But, per person, what is your goal to have for income?  Do you really plan to spend as much as you can of that, or is it more to make sure all bases are covered? (like LTC, health issues, ability to do more than you thought, etc)

If you are planning to be supporting someone else for at least five years (parents, children, whatever), include them in the per person amount.

I bring up "full retirement", rather than "barista fire", etc, so that at least one thing is level for the poll.  So, assume even if you believe you'll work a part-time job forever, you cannot.  You're aiming for your savings, investments, pensions, whatever, to cover you.

sparkytheop

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2020, 08:43:23 PM »
Personally, I am in a "Golden Handcuffs" situation.  As long as my current job does not become unbearable, I'll see it through to full pension benefits (while it covers around 1/3 of my income, it's the other things that make it to where I don't want to leave stuff on the table).

So, knowing my pension will likely cover all my expenses and several of my wants, I've also set myself up to be able to retire earlier if the official opportunity presents itself (be able to retire with full benefits/no penalties up to 11 years early).

I've put myself well into fatFIRE for income/spending.  I'm naturally frugal, and my house should be built and paid off by the time I retire, but I want to be able to make sure everything is covered-- all the travel I want, hire everything out so I'm not constantly doing maintenance/repairs myself, be able to cover in-home care and/or a great retirement/nursing home when I'm older (my family tends to live into their 90s).

I set firecalc and everything else up to aim for at least $120k/year.  Some years I may even challenge myself to spend that much!  I'll be single, LCOL area, one adult child (who should be able to support himself, but if I can share wealth with tax-free gifting before I die, I plan to do so, just so that less is taxed later).

Bloop Bloop

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2020, 08:49:25 PM »
$80k AUD ($50k USD) for two of us. That does not include housing costs since the property is paid off. It includes a little bit for my future children's upkeep (until they move out) but I don't believe in paying for their education in the form of tuition or college fees so I am not planning for that.

I think $80k would be a wealth of money. I don't spend that much now and I'm happy with my lifestyle.

APowers

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2020, 09:22:02 PM »
$25k/yr would be plenty for me to FIRE with a spouse and two kids. That's like $6,250 per person, per year. Obviously, wouldn't be quite enough in a HCOL like SF or DC or Seattle, but in 99% of the U.S., $25k would be plenty.

spartana

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2020, 09:55:32 PM »
I'm already at full "never gonna work again" retirement and have been for a long time but I found my actual FIRE spending ended up being much less then my expected spending. Part of this was due reduced medical (going from expensive COBRA to a lower cost catastrophic plan then to free/low cost VA). But the biggest change was with my discretionary spending. I found less expensive ways (and more enjoyable to me) to do things like long term travel and various hobbies. I cut out things like cable, home internet, eating out often, the lattes, etc not to save money but because they didn't bring me much joy. In some cases I realized I actually didn't enjoy some thing at all but did them because others did.

So now, many years into FIRE, I spend about half of what I planned to spend originally but feel I live a better life that gives me much more joy. 

ETA: When I quit my job (at 36) I planned to spend around $40k/ year but ended up spending around $20k.  Now, and if I were FIREing today with my current situation and spending levels, I would need less than $25k/year (what I marked for this poll). Guess I should have FIREd sooner!
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 10:19:14 PM by spartana »

dresden

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2020, 10:23:16 PM »
We spend about 40-45k for two of us plus an adult son in college.   So per person I guess it's around 15k although there are definitely economies of scale.

We have a paid-for house and some luxuries (lawn service, yard service, pest service, pool service, monthly entertainment money, etc.).   We are generally frugal other than the things mentioned.

We live in a relatively low cost area with no income taxes and property taxes of around 3k for a 450k house that is protected and can only go up a prescribed % each year.  That protection is saving us around 2k per year right now.

Our car insurance is pricy due to a 20 year old son, but that will go down over time.

ROF Expat

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2020, 01:09:22 AM »
$80k AUD ($50k USD) for two of us. That does not include housing costs since the property is paid off. It includes a little bit for my future children's upkeep (until they move out) but I don't believe in paying for their education in the form of tuition or college fees so I am not planning for that.

I think $80k would be a wealth of money. I don't spend that much now and I'm happy with my lifestyle.

Does an AU$ 80k budget mean giving up six-figure sports cars?  This is not a flame or troll, I'm really curious. 

Personally, my original target was always to retire with a gross income that matched my peak working income, later revised to retiring with a monthly take-home that matched my take-home pay while working.  I've been rethinking that lately (a side effect of reading posts here), and I know I could reduce my spend substantially, but I always assumed I would be unhappy if early retirement meant a forced reduction in some of the things that I really enjoy (although reduction by conscious choice would be a different matter). 

As a recent retiree, I find that my spending patterns are still shifting.  There are a lot of things I spend less money on, but other costs have increased.  My spending on business suits has dropped to zero, but my spending on exotic fishing trips and other travel is growing rapidly.  It is probably more a function of age than retirement, but I also find that I spend less than ever on things that might impress other people, and more on things that impress me (it is still spending, though).  I don't mind spending money, but I refuse to get on the consumer treadmill. 


dresden

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2020, 09:27:21 AM »
At least for myself and many others my age that have been planning for early retirement for many years - early retirement is something that was inspired by "Your money or your life" and the simple living movement.   As recent as 15 years ago that used to be the predominant viewpoint among people that wanted to retire early.    The early retirement community seems much larger now but also all over the place in terms of view points on things - even things that used to be sacred in the early retirement community - it could just be more people connected online - hard to tell.

I retired a few years earlier than I originally planned due to health issues that linger from a car accident and to do so I did make some spending adjustments - but nobody is going to look at our budget and think we are extreme budgeters.  I also wanted to make sure my draw rate was much lower than 4% because I am not confident in my pensions long-term plus we were experiencing a record bull run at the time I retired (last year). 

This is where a book like "your money or your life" is still a great reference for people to exam their relationship with money and think about the "why" in spending and the opportunity costs two ways (money and time).   I think like most early retirees we landed somewhere in the middle by not having an extreme budget but still making some downward adjustments on spending compared to the working days - I think that middle place is actually a great place to land.  I don't think adjusting budgets downward is a bad thing as long the change is realistic and spouses are aligned.  It used to be very common for people to downsize budgets and even houses as part of retiring early.

big_owl

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2020, 12:43:45 PM »
I'm in the $150k-$200k range, which I get is ridiculous but I prefer the fat fire.  Realistically anything over $75k is more than enough and we could fire today but neither of us hate our jobs and I've had to deal with some depression and anxiety which has scared me a bit in pulling the trigger.  At this point in my life I'm not sure fire is good for me so we keep working and the stash keeps growing and the fire number is always $50k above where we're at now....

ETA - that's household, not per person. 

Alf91

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2020, 02:27:59 PM »
Under $25,000.

LoanShark

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What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2020, 07:04:44 PM »
$80,000/year for my wife and I.

Chris@TTL

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2020, 07:27:06 PM »
We are aiming for approximately $25k/person. I mentioned in the Post-FIRE thread our expenses from last year at $42k, so it fits in. We're kinda straddling the line as one of us (me!) are nearly full retired (I still do a bit of consulting for special projects) and she's ramping down from full-time to part-time (there now), then onto just consulting for special projects; next month ideally.

We've been aiming for $625k saved per person ($1.25m @ 4% = 25k/person) for nearly a decade. Our historical spending hasn't ever exceeded $50k in the time we've been tracking expenses (ignoring things like the house HUD1/downpayment, business expense, etc). $50k/year would give a little headroom for the unexpected and even more fun if we can stomach it!

Rdy2Fire

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2020, 06:30:23 AM »
Thanks for starting this one as a result of mine as I mentioned in that poll, I find it interesting to see/hear peoples numbers.

I have only been FIRE'd for a year and marked 55K for this poll. It's not necessarily the desire but it is what I spent this past year granted more then half of that was on travel.

Greystache

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2020, 08:52:57 AM »
My wife and I have been retired for 5 years with a household budget of $60K, so $30K per person. We have never increased it for inflation in 5 years. This year, due to reduced travel and entertainment, we expect to spend less.

Bettersafe

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2020, 09:08:25 AM »
I'm aiming at 30K with a paid off house and self supporting kids.

tipster350

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2020, 09:58:53 AM »
I'm at $60-65k. I'm single and will have a mortgage. MHCOL area. As a single person, it is more expensive for me than it would be as part of a couple that shares housing and other expenses.

Livingthedream55

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2020, 10:05:34 AM »
I'm coming up on my one year FIREversary and I spent $35,000 but that included three international and four domestic trips and I paid off my house in that period (didn't owe much on the house though) so it's reasonable to estimate $30,000 annually going forward.

simonsez

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2020, 11:16:54 AM »
75k-100k for income per person.

I feel that this is outrageously high when I think about it on a daily or weekly basis but I have to remember this is income, not spending we're talking about.  Two pensions will easily cover our regular living expenses.  401k, 403b, IRAs, and taxable are bridge-the-gap-to-pension money but then then anything extra will be a bonus during retirement.  Same for S.S.  But a lot of this is cushion for travel and/or could be gobbled up by the lakehouse on wife's side and rural family property on my side whenever major projects turn up (which won't be every year).  Those are important to maintain and keep in the family.  I'd rather err on the safe side and have plenty in reserves for a newer boat, new roof, newer tractor, new dock, an outrageously decked out greenhouse, more land, etc.


kanga1622

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2020, 12:33:00 PM »
If it were magically to happen today, we’d want a household “take-home” income around $50-60k for our family of 4. If we didn’t have young kids, that number could be significantly reduced. Probably closer to $35-40k for just DH and I. The hardest number to quantify is medical. Our state doesn’t have expanded Medicaid so we’d probably end up on an ACA plan with a much higher deductible that our current employer plan.

Bateaux

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2020, 02:14:00 PM »
If we quit today we could spend 46K per person baaed on 4% rule.  I have my doubts about the 4% rule and would trust 3% a bit more.  So currently 34K per person would be possible.   I'd like to see 100 dollars a day per person and there are two of us.  So that's $73,000 a year which would be about 3.2 percent withdrawal rate.   We should be in our last year till FIRE right now.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 02:16:57 PM by Bateaux »

hadabeardonce

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2020, 02:39:43 PM »
Desired? $0 - it would make planning a lot easier and I could focus more on things beyond money.

rmorris50

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2020, 02:57:07 PM »
I guess answered this wrong, I said 125  -150 (targeting 130) but that's for my spouse and I. So should have selected 50-75, so I don't fee like such an outlier now!

Arbitrage

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2020, 03:12:43 PM »
One meelion dollars.

With four of us in the household, and a planned paid-off house, our expenses should be far below $25k per person.  Shooting for $40-45k for the household.

Zikoris

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2020, 03:14:15 PM »
27-28K for both of us, or about 14K/each, would cover our current lifestyle. That includes travelling to five or six countries a year, at expensive travel times, and living in Vancouver the rest of the time. So it could definitely go down once we have more flexibility. I don't see it going up unless be became lazy, slovenly over-consumers, which is horrifying enough that we try very hard to avoid it.

facepalm

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2020, 06:11:56 PM »
My actual will be in the range of 90--100K per person. This is with Pensions, SSI, 403, 457, brokerage accounts, and change found in phone booths.

I need far less. I really only need 30K per year.

I find myself in the enviable position of having to reinvest most of my income. Perhaps I can take up crack addiction as a hobby. I might just donate some to the local food bank.

I always wanted a rich uncle. Now I get to be one.

Just Joe

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2020, 09:54:00 AM »
Would anyone share an example budget for a ~$50K income?

Arbitrage

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2020, 09:51:53 AM »
Would anyone share an example budget for a ~$50K income?

Budget is fictional, but based upon current expenses, with expected changes after we move to where I actually want to live (HCOLA -> MCOLA).  Family of four, two kids in elementary school.  Assumes a paid off house (doable after we move).

Per month
Income tax - 0 (likely actually negative)

Home/utilities
Mortgage/Rent - 0
Property taxes - $500
Home insurance - $70
Home maintenance - $300
Electricity/water/sewer/trash - $150
Internet - $70
Cell phones - $50

Food/sundries
Groceries - $600
Household goods and clothing - $350

Health
Medical insurance - $250 (ACA)
Medical/dental OOP - $150

Transportation
Car insurance/taxes - $100
Car maintenance - $50
Gas - $50
Bike maintenance - $15

Optional/luxuries
TV/music subscriptions - $25
Entertainment and gifts - $300
Vacations - $500
Kids' classes, childcare - $100
New car/bike fund - $200
Pets - $100
Restaurants - $50

Total is just shy of $4k/month, with about $1300 of that being luxury spending. 

Car Jack

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2020, 10:02:47 AM »
From my current expense sheet.  It assumes just wife and me.  We have no mortgage or debt of any kind.


Expenses Calculator   
property tax   8,500.00
water   300.00
Verizon cable   1,680.00
netflix   96.00
electricity   1,680.00
Oil Heat   2,400.00
car insurance   3,000.00
restaurants   5,200.00
groceries   5,200.00
car inspection   140.00
gas   4,000.00
car repairs, parts, oil+   2,000.00
Health ins+   12,000.00
Cell Phones   1,320.00
home/umbrella ins   2,000.00
Offroading costs   2,000.00
vacation costs   5,000.00
total 56516

Fishindude

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2020, 10:12:08 AM »
My spouse and I budget for $140k annual spending, it goes a long way in the midwest.
Everything is paid off but we live pretty spendy; have a vacation home, do lots of traveling, keep rather new vehicles, dine out a lot, etc.

Could live on a lot less, but choose not to.

Cassie

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2020, 03:19:53 PM »
We retired 8 years ago. During that time we have spent anywhere between 40-62k. Our HI, deductibles, etc are 10k/year. We spend anywhere between 5-14k/year on travel.

Livingthedream55

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2020, 09:06:58 AM »
Groceries/Household   $400.00
Cell Phone                  $40.00
Gas                            $60.00
House Insurance         $45.00
Internet                      $52.74
Eating Out                 $100.00
Real Estate Tax          $455.00
Water & Sewer            $60.00
Life Insurance             $85.00
Car Insurance             $97.62
Electricity                  $100.00
Home Heating Oil       $100.00
Lawn & Snow             $100.00
Medical                       $50.00
Travel                        $500.00
Gifts                          $100.00
Home Repair                $50.00
Car                             $50.00
Dental Insurance          $19.00
Theater, Movies, Fun   $100.00
Clothing                       $25.00
Total                        $2,589.36


Some of these bills are actually paid once a year but these are the average monthly costs.
House is paid for.
I also have a separate Roth IRA account with $100,000 in it to cover any big ticket expenses like a new roof, a car replacement, etc.

Edited: I forgot $104 a month for health insurance.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2020, 12:32:59 PM by Livingthedream55 »

Chris@TTL

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2020, 10:11:59 AM »
Would anyone share an example budget for a ~$50K income?

We spent $40,885 last year (just a little over $31k not including the mortgage). Depending on whether 50k is pre- or post-tax, you'll need to do better than us to really build some FI level savings. Our budgeting DOES include payments into equity, and $192/month in savings to house improvement/services/maintenance (which we spend in lumps throughout the year) -- so a little wealth building is built-in. Here's the budget table:

CategorySubcategorySpent ($)
Home 20,349.98
Mortgage Principal3,873.84
Mortgage Interest5,813.31
Property Tax3,312.00
Insurance687.00
Improvement1,152.00
Service1,152.00
HOA Fees4,200.00
Lawn & Garden0.00
Supplies159.83
Furnishings0.00
Food & Dining 8,193.70
Groceries4,079.12
Restaurants3,042.41
Fast Food439.40
Alcohol & Bars582.33
Coffee Shops50.44
Travel 1,633.52
Hotel1,632.08
General508.58
Air Travel(786.54)
Rental Car/Taxi279.40
Health & Fitness 5,030.55
Insurance2,758.80
Dentist166.10
Sports1,285.86
Doctor0.00
Pharmacy615.20
Eyecare204.59
Bills & Utilities 1,719.31
Utilities1,161.99
Mobile Phone207.87
Internet349.45
Auto & Transport 2,076.13
Gas & Fuel355.78
Insurance582.12
Parking79.46
Tolls70.00
Service & Parts721.85
Property Tax149.88
Public Transportation117.04
Entertainment 667.14
TV & Movies74.10
Amusement122.26
Arts470.78
Shopping 600.28
Electronics & Software281.77
Clothing255.02
Books0.00
Sporting Goods32.49
Toys & Hobbies31.00
Gifts & Donations 508.00
Gift386.12
Charity121.88
Personal Care 106.39
General106.39
Laundry0.00
Fees & Charges 0.00
Bank Fees0.00
Service Fees0.00
Major Unbudgeted Expenses 1
Car purchase, cosmetic surgery, yacht, etc.0.00
Subtotal 2 31,197.85
GRAND TOTAL 40,885.00
4% SWR Basis 3 1,022,125.00

Footnotes:
(1): Large, unplanned and unbudgeted expenses can come up but should be infrequent.
(2): Defined as all expenses minus mortgage interest & principal—if we paid the mortgage off this is what we’d have spent.
(3): In order to maintain this level spending, we’d need this much in appreciating assets to meet the classic “4% rule” (25x our annual expenses, the Grand Total number)

Of course, the better formatting of our 2019 FIRE budget is in HTML along with all the details of how we got there, but this works!
« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 10:13:58 AM by Chris@TTL »

Just Joe

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2020, 09:55:20 PM »
Thanks Chris@TTL

Travis

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Re: What's your desired income in full retirement? (per person)
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2020, 10:39:34 PM »
Planning for a $60k-$70k lifestyle for a family of three.  This is probably on the high end of what our spending will be.