The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: DeskJockey2028 on August 07, 2017, 09:26:43 AM
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Hey folks,
Not to be a Debby Downer here, but I'm genuinely curious. What's your personal FIRE ogre? The thing that you fear happening - even though you've planned for as much as you can? Math error? Black swan event (i.e. asteroid strike or collapse of the world economy)? Health or Health care issues? Another nasty market depression the day after you retire? What, if anything, can you or I do to mitigate these beyond the planning we're already doing?
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Receiving a diagnosis of a severely life-limiting illness just a few months after retiring is top of my list of things I'd worry about if I let myself worry about things I can't change.
This may be because it's something that I've seen happen to two close family members and one not-quite-so-close family member, whereas I've never experienced an asteroid strike or observed a failed attempt at retirement at close quarters.
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Someone discovers a genuine cure for ageing which ends up being marketed at a price we could have afforded if only we'd worked another year or two...
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Biggest fear - Not living long enough to truly enjoy my time in retirement.
Second biggest fear - Retiring with too little to really enjoy my time in retirement.
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Dying before I can FIRE, dying before I can save enough to let hubby FIRE without me. Fortunately I will be retiring in less than a year so hopefully I will get to enjoy some time in FIRE prior to my passing away and I have already saved enough to take care of DH. I am young, but I have known people who have passed away at my age so I am very familiar with the fragile nature of life.
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Catastrophic medical bills
2nd biggest; being severely physically disabled while mentally sharp enough to lament my predicament
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Biggest FIRE fear? Being burned alive in a house you own free and clear!
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Being wrong about this whole FIRE thing, i.e., suddenly waking up and realizing I don't actually have enough money.
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FIREing with enough for DW and I and then realising 10 years from now that we could and should have put a stash aside to cover costs for our parent's final years, or to help someone else close to us. We are extremely fortunate financially. Others not so much.
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being severely physically disabled while mentally sharp enough to lament my predicament
Similar -- especially if my money runs out so I can't hire good help. I'm terrified that I'm going to need someone to help me with my personal hygiene and that I won't be able to afford someone to do it to my satisfaction.
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Being aimless, bored, and miserable, and discovering that at the end of the day, I really have no purpose or meaning as a human being outside of whatever minimal value I add through my job.* I am deadline-motivated and fear that without external structure, I will give in to sloth and lethargy, instead of doing the creative/fun things I want to do.
Of course, that is counterbalanced by the fear of dying before I have time to do all of the traveling and other fun stuff I want to do. So the balance of those two fears keeps me generally on my current path.
*Why yes, I do tend toward the depressive. Why do you ask?
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Being aimless, bored, and miserable, and discovering that at the end of the day, I really have no purpose or meaning as a human being outside of whatever minimal value I add through my job.* I am deadline-motivated and fear that without external structure, I will give in to sloth and lethargy, instead of doing the creative/fun things I want to do.
Of course, that is counterbalanced by the fear of dying before I have time to do all of the traveling and other fun stuff I want to do. So the balance of those two fears keeps me generally on my current path.
*Why yes, I do tend toward the depressive. Why do you ask?
Ditto. For me, FIRE would involve a part time job and lots of structure. I was a SAHM for 8 years and at first I felt really lost after quitting my job. Only after I found a friend group to hang out with plus a routine did I warm up to it.
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Saving for a future that end up looking so different that it was all for nothing.
No fun in FIRE when a 4% withdrawal means you get a loaf of bread.
(http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4e99d418ecad047d66000014/wheelbarrow-of-cash.jpg)
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I am a bit worried about everything named above and a few things more.
I saw my father dying of cancer at the age of 50. He never had a chance to enjoy his pension. I have also seen my MIL getting dementia. And the worse thing is that I am recognizing some of her early symptoms in myself. Are those symptoms just stress related or Am I getting dement as well?
I am worried about the stock market crashing at some very unfortunate time, so that we need to work longer and so that we need to go back to work.
I am worried about collapse of society as we know it, caused by climate changes or other things. I expect there to be war, mass migration, starvation, mass human extinction. I also expect the planet to become even more poisoned as it is today. I just hope I will manage to spend at least a decade or two in FIRE before hell brakes loose. Then maybe I can end it before it gets too bad.
I am worried about taxation that might change every year. Being a rich retiree we will be an easy target for tax reforms that we didn't plan for. I am also worried about my pension. As I get a government pension from the age of 67, they are changing the rules for how much you get. And they might change the age to 70 instead of 67. This would torpede my FIRE calculations.
I am worried that my husband might not want to stay with me forever. But I am also thinking that I might become even more hardcore frugal as a single and could still retire early. But maybe by having a room mate.
I worry a bit about whether the house market will crash, as that is where most of our money is at the moment.
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My husband has multiple sclerosis. My biggest fear surrounding FIRE is health care. I fear that that if I retire before he is 65 then we won't be able to get good/affordable health care for him. I also fear that if I will work until he turns 65, him and I might not get to enjoy retirement they way we have always planned. We still have A LOT of years until FIRE but it is hard to calculate our number with the future of health care being so questionable right now, especially knowing we have a significant medical need for the rest of his life.
We currently practice a "put an acceptable % away for retirement but spend some money now to enjoy life while he is physically able" approach.
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1. healthcare expenses
2. pension going away or being severely reduced
3. wealth tax
4. dying before I have at least a decade of FIRE
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My husband has multiple sclerosis. My biggest fear surrounding FIRE is health care. I fear that that if I retire before he is 65 then we won't be able to get good/affordable health care for him. I also fear that if I will work until he turns 65, him and I might not get to enjoy retirement they way we have always planned. We still have A LOT of years until FIRE but it is hard to calculate our number with the future of health care being so questionable right now, especially knowing we have a significant medical need for the rest of his life.
We currently practice a "put an acceptable % away for retirement but spend some money now to enjoy life while he is physically able" approach.
A healthy dose of perspective there! Best wishes to you both in your struggles. IT
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Being aimless, bored, and miserable, and discovering that at the end of the day, I really have no purpose or meaning as a human being outside of whatever minimal value I add through my job.* I am deadline-motivated and fear that without external structure, I will give in to sloth and lethargy, instead of doing the creative/fun things I want to do.
Of course, that is counterbalanced by the fear of dying before I have time to do all of the traveling and other fun stuff I want to do. So the balance of those two fears keeps me generally on my current path.
*Why yes, I do tend toward the depressive. Why do you ask?
Ditto. For me, FIRE would involve a part time job and lots of structure. I was a SAHM for 8 years and at first I felt really lost after quitting my job. Only after I found a friend group to hang out with plus a routine did I warm up to it.
Ditto, ditto. Trying to balance this with realistic expectations for my free time. I think I have a set point for happiness that can be only somewhat elevated or depressed based on the circumstances.
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Losing my eyesight before I can get through the huge pile of books I have waiting until I'm FIREd and have the time to read them!
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Being aimless, bored, and miserable, and discovering that at the end of the day, I really have no purpose or meaning as a human being outside of whatever minimal value I add through my job.
Me too. Fortunately, since FIREing, the opposite has happened.
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Losing my eyesight before I can get through the huge pile of books I have waiting until I'm FIREd and have the time to read them!
This is easily solved by getting sound books, or having the book read aloud in some other way.
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That for, whatever emergency reason, we might suddenly have to pull out a substantial amount of my funds during a crash in the market, putting us back to zero again.
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That was one of my fears as well. My Dad always swore that he would never be or leave us a financial burden from his later years or end of life care. He had to pay for my Grandmother's last decade - basically for everything. Housing, medical that wasn't covered, etc. That's one of the reasons he worked until he was 72.
My Mom was horrible with money and with her health - never took care of anything health wise, was very obese and barely had to nickels to rub together. She was a 2+ pack a day smoker who passed away from lung and brain cancer a little over a year ago.
I won't have to worry about this with my parents, but I do worry about it with my kids - I never want to be that burden on them.
FIREing with enough for DW and I and then realising 10 years from now that we could and should have put a stash aside to cover costs for our parent's final years, or to help someone else close to us. We are extremely fortunate financially. Others not so much.
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My husband has multiple sclerosis. My biggest fear surrounding FIRE is health care. I fear that that if I retire before he is 65 then we won't be able to get good/affordable health care for him. I also fear that if I will work until he turns 65, him and I might not get to enjoy retirement they way we have always planned. We still have A LOT of years until FIRE but it is hard to calculate our number with the future of health care being so questionable right now, especially knowing we have a significant medical need for the rest of his life.
We currently practice a "put an acceptable % away for retirement but spend some money now to enjoy life while he is physically able" approach.
A healthy dose of perspective there! Best wishes to you both in your struggles. IT
This situation has been on my mind a lot the past few years. I have a couple confirmed autoimmune diseases (thankfully not any of the bad ones), but a lot of unexplained problems that indicate other possible autoimmune diseases as yet undiagnosed. I've been tested for MS several times over the years, so I've had to think in realistic terms about exactly what you and your husband are facing, as a possible future for me/us.
I think I have come to terms with the possibility of a disabling illness in my own future, and am saving accordingly (since LTC insurance is not an option for me). But it still is a big worry, given the uncertainty of health insurance. But I'm not nearly as prepared emotionally for the possibility of serious illness in DH, so that could throw me for a big loop were it to happen unexpectedly.
Health care costs are a really frightening x factor in FI (not so much RE for us). For these big autoimmune illnesses, and some of their close 'kin' diseases, drugs run >10K per MONTH without insurance. There is literally no way to plan for that. If your insurance won't cover it, you deteriorate and die. It's fucking appalling. We have a close friend in this situation right this second. So far, his insurance is refusing to cover his drugs (it's a specialty chemo cocktail used to treat some autoimmune diseases). They are floating the cost, expecting that with repeated appeals his insurance will cover them. He is expected to be on them for life, and they cost almost TRIPLE his gross income.
That kind of thing can leave me in a cold sweat of terror, especially given that as we've hit middle age, a frightening number of our friends have developed potentially catastrophically expensive health conditions.
Young people think they are bulletproof. But I can assure you, a healthy lifestyle is no protection from a lot of these health care catastrophes.
So health care will keep us working.
Also, family support issues, which we have also built into our ongoing expenses. Realistically though, we are only planning for everyday sort of support for family, not medical. We can barely adequately prepare for medical stuff for ourselves, let alone anyone else.
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Losing my eyesight before I can get through the huge pile of books I have waiting until I'm FIREd and have the time to read them!
This is easily solved by getting sound books, or having the book read aloud in some other way.
Also braille. I think reading might be one of the only pleasures that would continue for me if I lost my eyesight. I play a lot of video games and go racing a lot. Those would be off the table when blind.
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My concerns would be future health care and potential significant drop in my investments that would require me to cut back, although I'm preparing to some degree for the possibility. I wouldn't say I "fear" or "worry" about it. I spend more time just thinking about the positives and what I might want to do in retirement.
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1.Developing Alzheimer's or the like.
2. Healthcare costs.
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1. Healthcare, like almost everyone else who posted.
2. Wild currency fluctuations.
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My husband has multiple sclerosis. My biggest fear surrounding FIRE is health care. I fear that that if I retire before he is 65 then we won't be able to get good/affordable health care for him. I also fear that if I will work until he turns 65, him and I might not get to enjoy retirement they way we have always planned. We still have A LOT of years until FIRE but it is hard to calculate our number with the future of health care being so questionable right now, especially knowing we have a significant medical need for the rest of his life.
We currently practice a "put an acceptable % away for retirement but spend some money now to enjoy life while he is physically able" approach.
A healthy dose of perspective there! Best wishes to you both in your struggles. IT
This situation has been on my mind a lot the past few years. I have a couple confirmed autoimmune diseases (thankfully not any of the bad ones), but a lot of unexplained problems that indicate other possible autoimmune diseases as yet undiagnosed. I've been tested for MS several times over the years, so I've had to think in realistic terms about exactly what you and your husband are facing, as a possible future for me/us.
I think I have come to terms with the possibility of a disabling illness in my own future, and am saving accordingly (since LTC insurance is not an option for me). But it still is a big worry, given the uncertainty of health insurance. But I'm not nearly as prepared emotionally for the possibility of serious illness in DH, so that could throw me for a big loop were it to happen unexpectedly.
Health care costs are a really frightening x factor in FI (not so much RE for us). For these big autoimmune illnesses, and some of their close 'kin' diseases, drugs run >10K per MONTH without insurance. There is literally no way to plan for that. If your insurance won't cover it, you deteriorate and die. It's fucking appalling. We have a close friend in this situation right this second. So far, his insurance is refusing to cover his drugs (it's a specialty chemo cocktail used to treat some autoimmune diseases). They are floating the cost, expecting that with repeated appeals his insurance will cover them. He is expected to be on them for life, and they cost almost TRIPLE his gross income.
That kind of thing can leave me in a cold sweat of terror, especially given that as we've hit middle age, a frightening number of our friends have developed potentially catastrophically expensive health conditions.
Young people think they are bulletproof. But I can assure you, a healthy lifestyle is no protection from a lot of these health care catastrophes.
So health care will keep us working.
Also, family support issues, which we have also built into our ongoing expenses. Realistically though, we are only planning for everyday sort of support for family, not medical. We can barely adequately prepare for medical stuff for ourselves, let alone anyone else.
I am really sorry that you and several of your friends are going through this. When we were first told it was MS I remember several people saying that some of the worst parts is all the uncertainty. I also remember thinking that whatever they were talking about there was no way for me to fully understand what they meant by that until we were living it for a while. November will be 5 years since we were told that MS would be our new housemate (for life) and as we try to plan for things and we watch health care debates and learn of all the new drugs (that are totally un-affordable) I think I am only just beginning to understand all the uncertainty that we were warned about, and man were they right, it is really frustrating.
As to the part that I bolded and underlined in your comment, my husband turned 30 years old 1 month before he was told he has MS. We hadn't had any kids yet or done any serious planning for old age or retirement. I put money into my 401k regularly but what person in their 20s thinks about LTC insurance or substantial life insurance or wills or any of that stuff. He is no longer eligible for LTC insurance and the only life insurance policy that we have found that is worth the cost is an old very small policy that he randomly decided to take at when he was 21. The term was only 10 years so we pay more than I really want to extend it, just so we have some kind of life insurance policy on him.
FOR ANYBODY READING THIS IN YOUR 20s STILL, TAKE CARE OF THESE THINGS! My husband was a health (and still mostly is) barely 30 year old when he was told news that would drastically impact the rest of our life.
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I'm concerned about healthcare turning into a beast of a different animal from what we're used to.
When I was a kid 20 years ago (you might argue I'm still a kid), a doctor visit was an easy $10 copay plus $5-10 for a prescription if necessary.
Now, I'm on a HDHP, and a single traumatic knee injury this year put me at my $1300 HDHP deductible instantly (initial consult with a PA, MRI, then follow up appointment with an orthopedic surgeon to discuss future options, plus a knee brace). I had more than enough in my HSA to cover it, but others aren't so lucky.
What's going to happen in 20 years if my daughter gets sick? Or in 50 years when I start really deteriorating? Will I be able to realistically get care? Will I have to stay employed by someone in order to get a reasonable health insurance plan? That's what scares me.
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Will echo Laura33 - I'm probably 7-8 years from FIRE, but even the thought of trying to plan out a new life worries me (when I think about it). Do I want to develop a side hustle? If so, what? If not, what will my days look like? I've been conditioned to live with a routine for so long that waking up without a purpose (work, errands, tasks to complete, etc.) worries me a bit. How will I find purpose with my time? I love walking, reading, etc. but want to feel connected with others and if I'm fortunate enough, be able to spend my time helping others in some capacity - be it a side hustle, volunteering, I don't know yet.
Others - healthcare costs / health insurance. ACA might look drastically different in 5-10 years. It might be an increased cost I'm not accounting for yet which could push FIRE date farther out.
FIREing too early. FIREing too late (probably the former, not the later haha).
Another catastrophe happens right before or right after FIRE. Market no longer returns 8-10+% ROI.
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I think I'm in the majority: Health care.
It's the toughest part of retirement because the costs are beyond our control.
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Being aimless, bored, and miserable, and discovering that at the end of the day, I really have no purpose or meaning as a human being outside of whatever minimal value I add through my job.
This. And drifting towards alcoholism, inspiring my wife to leave me.
I believe the odds are on my good side though. Before I took my current job, I took 5 weeks to do what I ultimately want to do: play in my wood shop and take on dozens of random projects. Building, repairing, creating, whatever. It went very well.
And I have probably 1,000 projects, big and small, running through my brain right now that I'd like to tackle.
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Losing my eyesight before I can get through the huge pile of books I have waiting until I'm FIREd and have the time to read them!
This is easily solved by getting sound books, or having the book read aloud in some other way.
Also braille. I think reading might be one of the only pleasures that would continue for me if I lost my eyesight. I play a lot of video games and go racing a lot. Those would be off the table when blind.
Yeah, but I have this big pile of physical books, mostly hunted down second hand, and it would be seriously annoying to have to try to source them all over again in another format!
More seriously, I have great sympathy for those struggling with healthcare issues. The drug that keeps me alive has fortunately recently gone generic, but previously would have cost nearly double my whole post-FIRE budget if the NHS had stopped covering it. It's still expensive enough to make it impossible for us to move to a different country post FIRE.
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Losing my eyesight before I can get through the huge pile of books I have waiting until I'm FIREd and have the time to read them!
This is easily solved by getting sound books, or having the book read aloud in some other way.
This was one of my fears, not just for wanting to read books and explore all the internet rabbit holes, or driving at least in the daytime for a few more years, but I feared having a stroke and waking up in the hospital not being able to see where I was, who is in the room, what the doctor is doing or even see my supper.
Fixed - got lens implants called the symfony toric lens. My eyesight was extremely poor and my eye doctor recommended it to me as a prime candidate for this type of surgery.
The lens implants mean my eyesight will always remain as it is now, I only wear glasses for driving for sharper vision, but I could drive without them too. Whew - huge relief and worth every cent.
... @ Linda - nope, while the audio books were enjoyable to a degree, I am a fast reader and I always wanted to hurry them along. I tried audio books for the first time in between the eye surgeries. Although, I have to admit, a couple of the books were so well read that it made the book more entertaining. Besides, it requires you to have a device, whereas a book does not and worse, you are severely limited in your selection.
Fears - not really, only wishes:)
I just want to still be fit enough to enjoy a few years together with Mr. R. once he retires and I'd like to not run out of time, before I accomplished a few of my current endeavors or enjoyed one last trip to Europe to hang out with old friends, like next year:).
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Fears: Concerns:
1) Healthcare costs are larger than we budgeted
2) Hubby doesn't stay within his damn hobby budget!! :)
Although the thought of getting an illness does occur to me (and would totally suck), it isn't something I fear. I'm doing everything I can to stay healthy and active and the chips will fall where they will, and I'll just have to deal with it (gracefully, I hope). We do have a lot of fat in our retirement spending that we could certainly cut out if something dire were to happen, so while it would suck completely, I don't fear it.
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Absolutely nothing, FIRE is going to be awesome.
5 years in FIRE is worth a life-time at work. Actually, 5 years of FIRE is probably more freetime than the average person gets in their life anyway.
I am not sure why everyone here is such a worrier. You only get one life, make the most of it, preferably not behind a desk.
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I am not sure why everyone here is such a worrier.
I'm not worried.
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For me, it is the gov't changing the rules on health insurance that makes the cost skyrocket. My work based family plan has coinsurance of 2k, then 7k deductible, then 7k on me at 80/20. So I could be on the hook for 16k. ACA looks like a cost of 5k for 4.5k deductible for a total of maybe 12k next year if I need it. I can swing that, but I won't like it. I have seen Trumpcare projected costs up to 15k per individual. Would that be 35k out of pocket for my family? Yikes! I can't afford that after FIRE.
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- Skyrocketing healthcare and health insurance expenses
- Serious health issues (already dealing with some difficult ones)
- Being bored and feeling useless and unproductive in retirement
- Being too sick to enjoy retirement
- Becoming socially isolated
Interesting exercise.
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Everyone else said health care already, and I agree, so rather than be boring, I'll say something different.
My biggest FIRE fear is falling victim to OMY syndrome. Right now I have a job with good pay and benefits, a boss I genuinely like and coworkers I get along well with. No matter how big my stash is, there'll always be the temptation to work longer and pad it a little more.
I'm risk-averse by nature, and it'll be hard to know when I cross the line of "enough". Plus, there's always more things to do with extra money. I could buy some rental properties, become an angel investor in interesting business ideas, set up a donor-advised fund for charitable giving... If I don't force myself to take the plunge into FIRE at some point, I could end up working much longer than I really need to.
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Biggest fear is that I waited too long to FIRE
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Health in general is a big one for me but most recently I worry about WWIII - the end of the world as we know it.
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FIREing with enough for DW and I and then realising 10 years from now that we could and should have put a stash aside to cover costs for our parent's final years, or to help someone else close to us. We are extremely fortunate financially. Others not so much.
This. I have thought about this a lot and have adjusted my FIRE number so that I can provide for my parents later in life. I guess my plan is essentially to ensure that my parents are FI independent through my own savings. Obviously this extends my FIRE date significantly, but it is not something that bothers me at all.
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Another for healthcare. Cost of healthcare is still skyrocketing so fast. ACA is a great friend to FIRE at the moment, but even if it's not torn down, it does nothing to solve the root causes and is headed towards failure if not propped up. If healthcare was still today what it was 10 years ago, I'd have no worries. Can't believe we've gone from $62/mo for really good coverage to $1100/mo for what's basically catastrophic only. It's absolutely ridiculous.
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I am not sure why everyone here is such a worrier. You only get one life, make the most of it, preferably not behind a desk.
Good point! For me, it's a lifelong fear of irony: was afraid to buy a new car in case I lost the expenses element of work which would pay for it. Afraid to retire in case I am diagnosed with something really bad! I swing between believing that 2 more years is not worth the few extra thousand in the savings at the sacrifice of 2 years of brain fry and health decline versus the 'go now and enjoy quality of life'. Just our personalities, I suppose. Sunscreen, the song, outs it nicely -
Don't worry about the future or worry that know that worrying
Is as affective as trying to solve an algebra equation
By chewing bubble gum
The real troubles in your life are apt to be things
That never crossed your worried mind
The kind that blindsides you at 4 p.m. on some idle Tuesday
Baz Luhrmann - Everybody's Free (to Wear Sunscreen)
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My biggest fear is that I haven't saved enough money to keep my husband happy. We have more than enough to live a fantastic lifestyle including eating out, extensive travel, hobbies, etc., but my DH has a personality that chafes with ANY restriction. For example, I could tell him that I have budgeted $200 or $2000 to go out to eat lunch, and he will fret that there might be a bottle of wine that he really wants and he'll protest that setting a budget isn't fair.
He's gotten a lot better, but I still worry that he'll be miserable because we will have to have a budget and stick to it. I've explained that no matter what, you always have to have some idea of spending and stick to it, even if you have $500k a year to spend. On the other hand, I'm the type that is super happy just going to the park, free museum, for a walk, etc. Since finding MMM, I've learned to enjoy free or low cost activities and can imagine myself being happy with very little. He hasn't made it as far. I still hold out hope that he might improve even more...
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Healthcare . . .
I feel like we should have a better system in the US. Healthcare worries make me truly afraid to leave my corporate job to even pursue entrepreneurship much less total FIRE.
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Someone discovers a genuine cure for ageing which ends up being marketed at a price we could have afforded if only we'd worked another year or two...
This. I'm surprised no one else is afraid of this possible regret. With the rate of increasing wealth inequality and increase in technology (including medical) it seems likely that there could be means for extending life and improving aspects for those that can afford it in the coming decades. It seems risky to just let yourself fall behind these days. However, it would be foolish to avoid FIRE just for a possibility of life extension and etc, like many what ifs, it's not a bet worth taking. However, it is a fear of mine.
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Someone discovers a genuine cure for ageing which ends up being marketed at a price we could have afforded if only we'd worked another year or two...
This. I'm surprised no one else is afraid of this possible regret. With the rate of increasing wealth inequality and increase in technology (including medical) it seems likely that there could be means for extending life and improving aspects for those that can afford it in the coming decades. It seems risky to just let yourself fall behind these days. However, it would be foolish to avoid FIRE just for a possibility of life extension and etc, like many what ifs, it's not a bet worth taking. However, it is a fear of mine.
Is it just me, but what is the point of extending your life just to work more? FIRE early and enjoy the years you have much more than working a few years to potentially buy life extension technology.
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Someone discovers a genuine cure for ageing which ends up being marketed at a price we could have afforded if only we'd worked another year or two...
This. I'm surprised no one else is afraid of this possible regret. With the rate of increasing wealth inequality and increase in technology (including medical) it seems likely that there could be means for extending life and improving aspects for those that can afford it in the coming decades. It seems risky to just let yourself fall behind these days. However, it would be foolish to avoid FIRE just for a possibility of life extension and etc, like many what ifs, it's not a bet worth taking. However, it is a fear of mine.
A cure for ageing? No. That is absolutely not desirable to me. In fact, I'd say it is the exact opposite, that sounds like a script for dreadful horror.
Imagine a world where the rich could live for as long as they want, but the poor can't afford it. Sends chills down my spine just thinking about it. No, I rather like death as the final equaliser, coming to all without discrimination.
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I will be happy to die when my time comes - a cure for aging brings so many problems - not the least of which is that we are having environmental problems already - without growing the population of over consumers!
No, my biggest concern is that SO will die before me.
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Is it just me, but what is the point of extending your life just to work more? FIRE early and enjoy the years you have much more than working a few years to potentially buy life extension technology.
I guess I would rather be working than be dead. Not all may agree with that.
A cure for ageing? No. That is absolutely not desirable to me. In fact, I'd say it is the exact opposite, that sounds like a script for dreadful horror.
Imagine a world where the rich could live for as long as they want, but the poor can't afford it. Sends chills down my spine just thinking about it. No, I rather like death as the final equaliser, coming to all without discrimination.
Well it would probably be incremental. Not a move from everyone is equal to a society of immortals mixed with the ordinary poor folk. Kind of like a more extreme case of today. Us wealthy people in developed countries usually have longer life spans and more technology to improve quality of life (not consumerism but medical devices such as glasses, pace makers, joint replacement, and etc.). Take that to the extreme where the gap between wealthy and poor is larger and the technological possibilities are greater and I doubt I would choose to be on the poor side of not being able to afford current technologies.
Throughout history the gap between rich and poor has mainly been material goods and consumption. Which we all know is nothing of importance and living a simple life with mindfulness is way better than being wrapped up in the rat race. However, the gap may be more substantial in the future. See this link to a Yuval Noah Harari article in Huffpo (I'm not a fan of Huffpo but think Harari's books are amazing highly recommended.)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-yuval-noah-harari/inequality-rich-superior-biological_b_5846794.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-yuval-noah-harari/inequality-rich-superior-biological_b_5846794.html)
"For the first time in history, the upper classes will be not only richer than the rest of humankind, but also much more talented, beautiful, courageous — or any other trait they would care to buy."
Not saying that future is my ideal society for us to advance to but it seems possible/likely.
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I'm in the UK, so healthcare isn't a concern......my biggest worry would be that my Type A personality took me back to work...
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Someone discovers a genuine cure for ageing which ends up being marketed at a price we could have afforded if only we'd worked another year or two...
This. I'm surprised no one else is afraid of this possible regret. With the rate of increasing wealth inequality and increase in technology (including medical) it seems likely that there could be means for extending life and improving aspects for those that can afford it in the coming decades. It seems risky to just let yourself fall behind these days. However, it would be foolish to avoid FIRE just for a possibility of life extension and etc, like many what ifs, it's not a bet worth taking. However, it is a fear of mine.
A cure for aging (or allowing for a longer life) isn't a cure for quality of life. Working decades longer just so I end up living decades longer bedridden and feeble in a nursing home in my 100s just isn't as attractive as retiring younger in full health and fitness and dying in my 80s or 90s. Now if you have a cure for old age afflictions and can keep me youthful and with full health and fitness and function in my 100s then I'll change my mind ;-)
I simply couldn't afford to live 10 healthy years longer in FIRE. Because if everyone in my country took such a cure, they would change pension rules and they wouldn't start paying out pension at 67. So the cure for age would mean having to work more years. Somehow I don't think I would want it. I also wouldn't like it if only the 1%-elite could afford it. But that would probably be the case in the first phase of such a cure.
It certainly wouldn't be good for the planet if everyone who lived now would live many years longer.
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My fear is that I save EUR 360000, put it on index funds and then it doesn't generate any interest or its value goes down due to a catastrophic event or slow decline. To manage my fear I aim at buying a slightly bigger house on a plot of land. I'll rent out parts of the house and grow veggies around it. So I diversify.
I live in Finland so healthcare is not my main concern. I feel for all of you in the US that have that variable. Of course the situation may change in Finland, who knows.
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1. Death
2. Long, prolonged stock market implosion
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Being massively wrong about my estimated expenses/returns.
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The costs of long term care if one of us needs it and a recession that cuts our budget in half! We're planning on a 3% withdrawal rate for these reasons.
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I haven't read every response, but I'm surprised no one has mentioned divorce or getting stuck with huge alimony payments. Some states even award lifetime alimony. Think about the impact having to pay $1000+ per month in alimony for the rest of your life would have on your plans.
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Early onset dementia.
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I worry that so much freedom will be alienating and that many of our lifelong friends/family will be unavailable to go on fun adventures with us or resent us for not having to work anymore.
Also that some family member will have woefully under-saved for retirement and will expect us to pitch in.
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I worry that so much freedom will be alienating and that many of our lifelong friends/family will be unavailable to go on fun adventures with us or resent us for not having to work anymore.
Also that some family member will have woefully under-saved for retirement and will expect us to pitch in.
I don't know what will happen to really young retirees. But for my parents in law, they kept their lifelong friends after they retired at 50. Although these people of course still had to work and could only visit during weekends/holidays.
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Someone discovers a genuine cure for ageing which ends up being marketed at a price we could have afforded if only we'd worked another year or two...
This.
Everything else is just a fear, something that having a stache will either help, or not harm. I don't consider that a FIRE fear.