Author Topic: What's your "superficial" income target  (Read 10636 times)

khangaroo

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What's your "superficial" income target
« on: April 20, 2017, 03:46:44 PM »
Ever since I was little kid, I thought that having a six figure income would be "making it." And now that I'm fairly close to it ($86k), I still do even though I don't think it would change my life at all if I hit that. My finances are pretty much on cruise control and I'm luckily in a position to buy whatever I'm personally craving so not sure if "chasing" the 6 figures will bring me any satisfaction.

I've heard of the $75k threshold where that's the maximum enjoyment that you'll get out of your salary and anything above that doesn't change your happiness level but just wanted to hear other people's thoughts.

It's a little bit of an odd question on a forum where people are trying to get away from the salary/wage and just do work for themselves. I enjoy what I do and don't see myself retiring early anytime soon, most likely being financially independent but working because I enjoy it and I like the my coworkers, the atmosphere, and routine.

Do you have a "superficial" income you would consider to be "making it"? $75k? $100k? $250k? $1 million? Fortune 500 CEO salary status? Personal income rather than household.

TheAnonOne

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2017, 03:50:52 PM »
I am at around 160, 200 as a HH. I don't know how to make more. Though, I would.

More is usually always better on the road to FIRE.

I never had a goal for income, as it seems like the market throws whatever price tag it wants on my services (.Net consulting)

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Mezzie

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2017, 04:25:16 PM »
As a kid, I thought 30k would be AMAZING.

My guess is, considering 30-some years of inflation, I've made it!

JLee

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2017, 05:18:28 PM »
I wanted to hit 6 figures by the time I turned 35 (started my IT career when I was 28).

I was at 97 last year and should clear about 110 this year at 33yo (just primary job income - excluding anything else).  Now my goal is to retire by 40.

I did want 100k in Arizona...and I'm just outside of NYC, so I suppose I'm not completely there, but close.

aceyou

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2017, 05:24:48 PM »
For me, my superficial target is being able to:

  • Fill up both my 403 and 457 and Roth IRA...41.5k
  • Fill up wife's 403 and 457 and Roth IRA...41.5k
  • still be able to pay my mortgage and all other living expenses

Currently, I'm able to shelter about 60k per year and not see a dip in checking/savings, so I have about 22k to go.  Personally, I don't care whether that comes by earning more or spending less, although at this point I think it'd have to come from earning more.  We have our spending at what we consider optimal for us. 


Tonyahu

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2017, 05:32:56 PM »
As a recent grad, making 28k per year, my current goal is 50k.

(Superficial = ~$150,000)

Christof

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2017, 05:45:13 PM »
Absolutely! It's precisely 1.96 of what I make now. I also define rich as everyone who is making more than I do. ;)

According to statistics I found, I am in the top 2% with a low six digit pre-tax income (low as in 1 followed by another low digit). This is in Germany. I'm not poor, but I certainly don't feel rich.

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2017, 06:20:58 PM »
So I figured I "made it" at the point I was making probably above 100k.  That gave me ability to buy what my family of 5 needed and pay off all debts including the mortgage quickly and put money in the bank quickly, which gave me the guts to start a business.  In the past 3 years I've averaged 300k, well above any income I ever thought I'd make in my life.   I was "making it" at 100k as that was well above expenses. I will have "made it" when 25x expenses, which I guess is not too far off now. Its not easy.  I grit my teeth every day to get there.

Laura33

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2017, 07:44:39 PM »
$215k.

When DH and I first married and his fab shut down (the first time), we were debating what it would take to convince us to move to a place where he could get a job but I couldn't (I think there was something in LA at the time).  So I added together our current salaries and tacked on about $30K extra for COL/"if I'm going to be bored I might as well be rich," and came up with $215k. 

The next few years, through and out of the tech crash, sent us backwards (me in particular).  So it felt really, really good when I crossed that milestone on my own several years ago.

big_slacker

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2017, 07:49:36 PM »
Kind of always a moving target. I had zero dreams or any notion I'd ever make 100k. Once I cracked that I figured 200k would be impossible but I'm pretty close to that now. I guess at the $400k level the work would be super interesting and challenging. And you wouldn't need too many years of that to ride off into the sunset even in a HCOL area.

golfreak12

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2017, 10:00:27 PM »
As a kid, I thought 30k would be AMAZING.

My guess is, considering 30-some years of inflation, I've made it!

Yeah when I was a teenager in the 80's I thought making $30K would be amazing.
Even as when I hit 30 in age, I never touch $20K ever. Even with a college degree.
When I did hit $30K at 32, it was ho hum as I don't need much to live.
Before age 40, I hoover around $40-$50K so I had plenty to live on.
It wasn't until 5 yrs ago that my salary skyrocketed. $62K>$74K> and then >$100K for the past 3 yrs.
I remembered when I hit that magic barrier of $100K it was surreal. I didn't think I would ever hit that magical figure. In my line of work, we do not hit $100K.

People often dream of hitting the lottery. I said to my wife a few times that we already hit the lottery a few years ago when I was able to make $100K.
Lately, my wife often said to me "is this still my husband ? " when ever we need to buy something and I told her to go ahead. I told her that it helps that I've made $100K the last 3 yrs so we can afford to relax on my expenses.

life_travel

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2017, 01:57:59 AM »
100k for me too ,I never in my wildest dreams imagined earning six figures without a degree :)
Especially when on average my industry was 45-50k.
I had a busy, demanding job with long hours but in the beginning it was fun ! However after 6 years I'm pretty much burned out and anyway my salary slowly came down from over 100k for 4 years to 84k, then 75k then 65k.
I'm not as busy though so that's a blessing and finally the golden handcuffs had lost their shine so I can start looking around too.

matchewed

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2017, 05:08:25 AM »
No. I've made it.

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2017, 05:18:55 AM »
When I was graduating from college I felt that I would have good living starting out at $40,000.  I never really had an upper limit.  I ended up in a career where taking away inflation/col raises I knew exactly what my pay would be next year (government) which ended up with a salary I'm quite pleased with.  I do recall feeling my eyes get big when during the job interview the number $70,000 in salary was thrown out for a couple of years down the road. 

Dances With Fire

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2017, 06:18:20 AM »
100k for me too ,I never in my wildest dreams imagined earning six figures without a degree :)
Especially when on average my industry was 45-50k.
I had a busy, demanding job with long hours but in the beginning it was fun ! However after 6 years I'm pretty much burned out and anyway my salary slowly came down from over 100k for 4 years to 84k, then 75k then 65k.
I'm not as busy though so that's a blessing and finally the golden handcuffs had lost their shine so I can start looking around too.

^^^+1  Growing up in rural "farm country" 100K was unheard of. Hell, I thought 50k or even 25+ would be a blessing.

Last year with bonuses and a small amount of private equity, plus a small amount of dividends, I passed the $100K threshold for the first time in my life!

"Superficial income" ?? I am "content" just right where I am today and very lucky and blessed to have come this far...

TheInsuranceMan

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2017, 10:00:26 AM »
If I can hit 60k by the time I'm 35 (29 now, made 46k last year with bonus), that'll be perfect.
Sure doesn't sound like much, but my wife works (makes less than me), and we have two kids and will probably have a third.  However, we live in an extremely low cost of living area, and while we aren't maxing out retirement accounts, we are putting quite a bit away every month and still living comfortable.

golfreak12

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2017, 10:23:28 AM »
100k for me too ,I never in my wildest dreams imagined earning six figures without a degree :)
Especially when on average my industry was 45-50k.
I had a busy, demanding job with long hours but in the beginning it was fun ! However after 6 years I'm pretty much burned out and anyway my salary slowly came down from over 100k for 4 years to 84k, then 75k then 65k.
I'm not as busy though so that's a blessing and finally the golden handcuffs had lost their shine so I can start looking around too.

Man, I'm in the same exact boat. In our line of work, ~$40k is more realistic.
I will easily go pass $100K for the 4th staright year. After this I don't know. I'm getting burnt out.

runewell

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2017, 10:36:49 AM »

I've heard of the $75k threshold where that's the maximum enjoyment that you'll get out of your salary and anything above that doesn't change your happiness level but just wanted to hear other people's thoughts.


That study is several years old, so presumably the number is higher now.

NESailor

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2017, 10:43:19 AM »
about 150/yr I think.  We're in a LCOL so it goes a pretty long way.  Started at 42k nine years ago.  Knowingly limited my upside by hanging out here in the boonies.  low 90s at the moment and actually negotiating to get the base up above 6 figures with a new employer hopefully soon!  With my wife in the mid-50s we're doing relatively well for the area.  At 200 total we'd be saving so much so quick that FI/RE would be just a couple of years away.  As it stands I think we can get to FI in 8-9 years.  The whole retirement piece is up for discussion.  Probably a career change when we get there rather than 'retirement' per se.

Jenny1974

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2017, 11:06:12 AM »
I remember thinking I would feel I had made it at $100K.  I live in a very LCOL location where money goes a long way.  Now I'm at over $250K and, if you asked me if I felt rich, I'd probably laugh.  Perspectives certainly change over time.  I would say we are very comfortable right now but not "wealthy" by any stretch!

afuera

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2017, 11:48:16 AM »
I always had a target for >100K in base salary (not including profit sharing or matches).  I just received my first 100K+ paycheck on the 15th so I've made it :) 
Recently, most of my targets have been spending targets.  Every 1K we can trim off our budget each year is 25K less that we need to retire so since we still have plenty of fat to trim that has been our main focus.  It would be nice for DH to make 100K+ too though...

dude

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2017, 12:04:43 PM »
Back when I was making just over $40k right out of law school, I remember saying, "I'd be all set if I could just make $80k."  I make twice that now, but in fact plan to "make" about  $80k when I retire in 2 years (pension + 401k withdrawals + some pt hobby work), and life should be just ducky.

letired

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2017, 12:11:38 PM »
My current salary goal is 100k. It's just such a nice round number! I'm probably underselling my overall earning potential, but I don't really want to put in the work that would get me a salary that much past 100k. If I ever get off my ass and develop something on my own, then maybe!

Fish Sweet

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2017, 12:39:00 PM »
I'm sure that being in my mid-twenties and having a career path that doesn't have a particularly lucrative bent (English major; admin & client services) have set my salary expectations accordingly, but I would be absolutely mind blown if I could top 100k a year.  I'm generally anticipating about 70k to be as high as I'll be able to go, barring unexpectedly landing in a different job altogether.

herbgeek

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2017, 12:45:09 PM »
For me, it really isn't about how much you make, but how much you have leftover.  I mean making 200K is great, but if you spend 201K you are still in trouble.  Conversely you could be making substantially less, but be more frugal, and have more leftover cash than the big earner spending every cent.

Sailor Sam

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2017, 12:49:08 PM »
I remember circa 2005 being astonish when I read a book where the author made $10,000 a month. Five figures in a single month! What? At the time, my own salary was ~$25,000 per year.

on 9-Mar-2017 I started grossing $10,000/month. You bet yer buttons I took notice, and grinned many grins. Next goal is to net $10k/month.

BlueHouse

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2017, 01:13:24 PM »
The last time I thought about it in terms of a dollar amount was when I was just out of school.  I was hoping to hit $30k by the time I was 30.  Now, my goals follow a different pattern:

 I want to exceed the SS wages cap by June.
or
I want to max out my 401k  (this year, I can stash 60k in 401k!)

If I had to put it in terms of money, I guess I just want to target "a little more than last year."

Finallyunderstand

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2017, 01:45:06 PM »
When I first reached that $75k number that is thrown around as the peak of happiness before diminishing returns I thought it was a  crazy amount of money. 

The years that followed went to $156k, $210k, and $242k last year.  Nothing has changed for my wife and I in regards to feeling like we "made it".  She is home with the kids which would have happened at a lower level as well.  We are still in the house we bought when both of us were making $30k each.  I guess the difference is that our house is paid off and she got a new-to-her car.  I had a Jeep but sold it and drive a used $10k Ford fusion.  We don't worry about a thing anymore financially but we already felt that way around $75k so there may be some truth to it.  We haven't left lifestyle inflation creep in.  I get happiness from knowing we can do almost anything financially but still choose not to.  It's a source of pride in a sense to not keep up with my friends spending.


Marathon_runner

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2017, 02:21:18 PM »
Depends where you live -- $100k could be a pretty decent salary in a small market... but in SF, NY, Boston, etc. a $100k salary could be difficult to buy a house -- or even an apartment / condo.

BoonDogle

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2017, 03:46:55 PM »
How much is enough?  Just a little bit more.

Stachless

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2017, 04:11:38 PM »
As has been said....location matters!

For reference, some lifeguards in Newport Beach, CA make around $200k per year to watch bikinis.  We are all relatively poor compared to them!

http://www.ocregister.com/2011/05/10/lifeguarding-in-oc-is-totally-lucrative-some-make-over-200k/

P.S. And none of them want to retire early EVER.

EnjoyIt

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2017, 07:03:34 PM »
As has been said....location matters!

For reference, some lifeguards in Newport Beach, CA make around $200k per year to watch bikinis.  We are all relatively poor compared to them!

http://www.ocregister.com/2011/05/10/lifeguarding-in-oc-is-totally-lucrative-some-make-over-200k/

P.S. And none of them want to retire early EVER.

I would say anything in the 33% tax bracket and above starts to significantly loose its value on hours required to make it.  This is especially true if you are adding in Medicare, Obamacare surtax, and state income tax.  Why work for only 55-60 cents on the dollar?

chasesfish

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2017, 07:26:03 PM »
I used to think $60,000 - $75,000 was "making it".   Earn a solid living, save for retirement, afford a house/car...

I earn significantly more than that now...but didn't think I was "making it" until I hit FI.  Its not about what you earn by selling your time, its about what your money earns for you.

CheapScholar

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2017, 09:05:41 PM »
I make about 110K now and I'm pretty content.  DW makes about 39K.  We both max 403bs which allows us to shelter quite a bit of money.  I wouldn't go out of my way to make more because those additional dollars would be in the 25% tax bracket.  We just missed the 25% bracket by about $1,000 last year.  Not to mention the state income tax I'd pay on more dollars.

Don't get me wrong, if my boss told me I got a raise I would gladly accept it.  But I'm at a point professionally where more money would probably mean a senior director title with a shit ton more responsibility. 

I think there's a lot of truth to the 75K number that's floated around out there related to happiness (although not true in HCOL areas).  I've realized that a family making about 150K can have a flat out amazing life with great retirement savings, investments, and still experience some "fancy" things like nice vacations.  You're not super wealthy but you're also not paying heavy taxes.  But on a historical and even current worldwide comparison you're basically royalty.  If you're in this group consider yourself VERY lucky.

bryan995

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2017, 10:02:58 PM »
> 250k base, 200k RSU and 100k bonus. That would be my definition of making it.

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2017, 11:31:01 PM »
We make around 80K right now, and save 60-70% while doing extensive international travel and living in a so-called expensive city. I would feel so insanely rich if we made six figures, I think I'd be too embarrassed to even ask for a raise. That would be 75%+ savings rate.

Dicey

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2017, 12:49:29 AM »
Uh, I guess I don't understand the question. Given that I'm FIRE, maybe it's not important.

Definition of superficial
1
a (1) :  of, relating to, or located near a surface (2) :  lying on, not penetrating below, or affecting only the surface superficial wounds
b British, of a unit of measure :  square superficial foot
2
a :  concerned only with the obvious or apparent :  shallow
b :  seen on the surface :  external
c :  presenting only an appearance without substance or significance

Elle 8

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2017, 06:34:29 AM »
...
 I want to exceed the SS wages cap by June.
...

I used to work in payroll and every January we'd get the calls, "Why is my pay less than it was last month?".  It was because they hit the SS wage max last year and now it's starting up again.  I used to think, oh boy, if I ever have that 'problem' I will have it made.  Back then (90s) I think it was well under 100K.  I'm still not there yet and probably never will be because they keep raising the max more than my salary is increasing.

Redherring

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2017, 07:06:03 AM »
It is a moving target. I see compensation as a scorecard, it is the best proxy for the value of you to your employer (obviously you must be worth more than this figure or they would not profit from paying you that particular salary)

Everything after 150k became superficial in the sense that we just save more. I am the main breadwinner with 300k base, 150k stocks and 100k bonus. Does it stop here - no. Next station is 350k/250k/200k in the next Executive level. My potential will likely max out at 1M. We cant all make the Fortune 500 C suite. It is fine.


matchewed

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2017, 07:10:02 AM »
Not to be too Debby Downer but I find this thread a bit bewildering. It seems to fly in the face of the developing a sense of knowing what is "enough".

Where are the concepts of not keeping up with the Joneses and knowing where happiness comes from?

big_slacker

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2017, 08:38:21 AM »
Not to be too Debby Downer but I find this thread a bit bewildering. It seems to fly in the face of the developing a sense of knowing what is "enough".

Where are the concepts of not keeping up with the Joneses and knowing where happiness comes from?

I think it's important to frame this properly. If you're talking making more but having it come at the expense of your lifestyle, family, etc. then yes. If you're talking just improving your craft and then rewards that come along with that *AND* knowing that above a certain point you're just ramping up savings/investments instead of lifestyle.... Then it fits nicely within the spirit of MMM philosophy. IIRC MMM himself was making well into 6 figures when he was working and their combined household income was creeeping up on $200k before he checked out of the corporate world. 

matchewed

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2017, 09:31:54 AM »
Not to be too Debby Downer but I find this thread a bit bewildering. It seems to fly in the face of the developing a sense of knowing what is "enough".

Where are the concepts of not keeping up with the Joneses and knowing where happiness comes from?

I think it's important to frame this properly. If you're talking making more but having it come at the expense of your lifestyle, family, etc. then yes. If you're talking just improving your craft and then rewards that come along with that *AND* knowing that above a certain point you're just ramping up savings/investments instead of lifestyle.... Then it fits nicely within the spirit of MMM philosophy. IIRC MMM himself was making well into 6 figures when he was working and their combined household income was creeeping up on $200k before he checked out of the corporate world. 

Yeah I'm probably reading too much into the responses.

YK-Phil

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2017, 09:51:45 AM »
I earned the most between the age of 30 and 49 and reached the $150K mark in 2007. If I had continued in that direction, I'd be earning around $250K+ by now. During the period between my mid-20s and late 40s, my focus was career building, money worshipping, and adhering to a very mainstream definition of success. My life took a different direction after I lost my job because as the most senior bureaucrat of a federal agency, I refused to take orders from the top on a very important file. Ten years later at 59, my base salary for my part-time remote job is a very decent 50K, plus on average $25-30K from a couple of side gigs. Due to a perfect timing of circumstances, I am able to spend 6 months of the year traveling with my wife and still earn a decent income doing something I really enjoy, that if I can help it I will probably do until well after I turn 65. "Falling" from grace had obviously some negative impacts on my life at first -I got into a deep depression and didn't get out of my bed for about a year, but over time and after working with great people I would have never associated before (I worked as a customer-service agent and rampie for an airline, and had a 5-year stint as a flight attendant) I realized this was a blessing in disguise which allowed me to refocus on the important things I valued. I can say without a shred of doubt that I am a happy man now.

maizefolk

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2017, 09:57:18 AM »
I'm happy with my income. I have enough to make it to FIRE in not too many more years and I wouldn't trade more stress and suffering than I already have for more money (within reason). That said, there are two benchmarks that'd have emotional resonance for me.

Hitting the cap on social security withholding from my W-2 job would feel really good. The extra bite self employment taxes take out of my other sources of income feels unfair* and it'd be fun to have a year were that 12.4% hit wasn't there at all.

Out earning my folks. Unlikely to happen based both on income trajectory to date and because I hope to be FIRE long before I hit those maximum earning years. But again an emotional irrational part of my brain feels bad that I'm going to be the break in the chain of each generation setting up their for more success than the previous generation.

*Please understand that I'm not arguing it IS unfair. I'm saying it feels unfair.

RedmondStash

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2017, 10:21:47 AM »
It's an emotion-based question, really. What does "making it" mean? Feeling like a successful adult. I never had a $ metric for that in terms of income. Enjoying my work always mattered more to me than the income level. I've taken pay cuts to take jobs I wanted, and I've negotiated for steep salary increases when I felt it was appropriate. As long as spouse & I are living within our means, the exact dollar amounts don't really matter much to me. Right now, I'm in a job that pays less than other similar gigs in my field, but I really enjoy it and we're progressing steadily toward FI, so I don't mind.

If "making it" means "living within your means," that's different for everyone based on their living expenses. But "living within your means and saving toward FI" is not a bad definition.

I measure feeling successful by FI more than by annual income. Not quite there yet, so feeling moderately but not completely successful.

chasesfish

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2017, 03:43:30 PM »
...
 I want to exceed the SS wages cap by June.
...

I used to work in payroll and every January we'd get the calls, "Why is my pay less than it was last month?".  It was because they hit the SS wage max last year and now it's starting up again.  I used to think, oh boy, if I ever have that 'problem' I will have it made.  Back then (90s) I think it was well under 100K.  I'm still not there yet and probably never will be because they keep raising the max more than my salary is increasing.

First world problems...I was pissed the cap for raises this year, was hoping to be out of SS contributions by April.  Will bleed over into May this year

MayDay

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #46 on: April 24, 2017, 10:29:59 AM »
I see it as no longer going to kill myself to get that promotion at work.

H makes ~125 with bonuses. No way is it worth becoming a next level manager with all the headaches and responsibilities and likelihood of getting thrown under the bus and laid off/fired for 20k more a year!

I make much less. I still want to move up/make more. I expect right around 100k is where my maximum happiness/money tipping point is.

BFGirl

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #47 on: April 24, 2017, 11:57:59 AM »
I'd kinda like to hit six figures before I retire.  If my raises continue as they have been, I should make it just before retirement.

NotJen

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #48 on: April 24, 2017, 12:51:34 PM »
No. I've made it.
Same. 

Also, whatever I make will always be enough for me to be happy.

matchewed

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Re: What's your "superficial" income target
« Reply #49 on: April 24, 2017, 01:06:35 PM »
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