What's the stupidest thing you're lusting after right now?

[Valley of Plenty]

That seems like cheating.

I think it seems like an advantage. I'm not sure I'd consider it "cheating" since hunting isn't exactly a competitive sport. And for those who hunt for food rather than for sport, it's certainly no more cheating than buying meat from a store is :P

Still, it would take many years for the grocery savings of hunting to offset the price of the drone. Probably more years than I'd ever get before it breaks.

Yeah it’s hard enough to justify the time for hunting before the cost of fancy toys from a strictly financial perspective. Even with something as large as a moose if you take two weeks off for hunting and processing the 300 lbs of meat starts to approach grass fed beef territory. Throw in the 4wheeler boat or plane a lot of people use to get out there. Subsistence fish comes out way ahead for me, but that’s largely because of how expensive salmon is at the store. Two hard days work can provide a couple thousand dollars worth of fish for the year. Of course if you love being outside and find the productivity increases your enjoyment it starts to make a lot of sense :)

Well I wouldn't do anything as serious as taking 2 weeks off to go hunt moose, but I can hunt whitetail deer in my own backyard without having to take any time off work. 50lbs of deer meat is a lot considering I'm only feeding myself. I'm also not a big fan of fish myself, nor am I particularly good at fishing.

[rothwem]

Damn, I'm kinda wanting a new mountain bike right now too.  I've currently got a hardtail and it does great, but the funny thing about the full suspension bikes that have come out in the last ~2-3 years or so is that they're faster everywhere--up hills and down them.  Everyone I ride with has a full suspension, and several of them are faster than me...the logical leap is that I need a full suspension bike! 

Ugh.  My bike is *fine*. My bike is *fine*...but I really want an Epic Evo or a Santa Cruz Blur.  What I don't want is to spend $5000 to get one, which is what those two bikes cost.  This one is green though!

Well I caved, ordered an Epic Evo today.  I had been holding off, but they dropped the price by almost $1000.  While the issue has never been lack of actual money, I have always thought this particular bike cost too much, even if its the best of its class of bike.  With the price drop, its the best bike AND the cheapest, so I went for it. 

Something kinda weird, there was an offer to finance 0% for up to 48 months, so out of curiosity, I clicked it, expecting some crazy upfront fee or something.  I didn't find any fees so I went for it, figured that my $3500 could earn some interest instead of being in bicycle form.  It was with "Klarna", which I googled, and yes its a real company, apparently the merchant pays the fee to Klarna?

Anyways, so I financed an expensive bicycle toy. Will this get me kicked off the mustache forums?

[Luke Warm]

Damn, I'm kinda wanting a new mountain bike right now too.  I've currently got a hardtail and it does great, but the funny thing about the full suspension bikes that have come out in the last ~2-3 years or so is that they're faster everywhere--up hills and down them.  Everyone I ride with has a full suspension, and several of them are faster than me...the logical leap is that I need a full suspension bike! 

Ugh.  My bike is *fine*. My bike is *fine*...but I really want an Epic Evo or a Santa Cruz Blur.  What I don't want is to spend $5000 to get one, which is what those two bikes cost.  This one is green though!

Well I caved, ordered an Epic Evo today.  I had been holding off, but they dropped the price by almost $1000.  While the issue has never been lack of actual money, I have always thought this particular bike cost too much, even if its the best of its class of bike.  With the price drop, its the best bike AND the cheapest, so I went for it. 

Something kinda weird, there was an offer to finance 0% for up to 48 months, so out of curiosity, I clicked it, expecting some crazy upfront fee or something.  I didn't find any fees so I went for it, figured that my $3500 could earn some interest instead of being in bicycle form.  It was with "Klarna", which I googled, and yes its a real company, apparently the merchant pays the fee to Klarna?

Anyways, so I financed an expensive bicycle toy. Will this get me kicked off the mustache forums?

I'm Jealous. Enjoy!

[Dancin'Dog]

I'm looking at this for only $6250 + fees & taxes  ($7733 total)   Seems like a steal compared to a $5K bicycle

[rothwem]

I'm looking at this for only $6250 + fees & taxes  ($7733 total)   Seems like a steal compared to a $5K bicycle

I guess it depends on what you’re going for. I had motorcycles for years, and it’s just not the same, I much prefer bicycles. Riding a motorcycle quickly is a workout, but for some reason, you just feel like you earn the downhills so much more when you pedal yourself up a hill instead of motoring up.

[Dancin'Dog]

I'm looking at this for only $6250 + fees & taxes  ($7733 total)   Seems like a steal compared to a $5K bicycle

I guess it depends on what you’re going for. I had motorcycles for years, and it’s just not the same, I much prefer bicycles. Riding a motorcycle quickly is a workout, but for some reason, you just feel like you earn the downhills so much more when you pedal yourself up a hill instead of motoring up.

I know they're totally different sports, but considering what is required to produce a bicycle compared to a motorcycle it's hard to understand the prices of bikes.  It seems like the marketing experts have performed some magic in the bicycle industry.   

[rothwem]

I'm looking at this for only $6250 + fees & taxes  ($7733 total)   Seems like a steal compared to a $5K bicycle

I guess it depends on what you’re going for. I had motorcycles for years, and it’s just not the same, I much prefer bicycles. Riding a motorcycle quickly is a workout, but for some reason, you just feel like you earn the downhills so much more when you pedal yourself up a hill instead of motoring up.

I know they're totally different sports, but considering what is required to produce a bicycle compared to a motorcycle it's hard to understand the prices of bikes.  It seems like the marketing experts have performed some magic in the bicycle industry.   

I guess. I realized a while ago that what something costs to build is not a good predictor of what people will pay, and companies do their best to charge what people will pay.

As far as bikes and motos go, a motorcycle is usually ~2x more when you compare relative market positions, which sortof makes sense to me in a weird way. If you figure the motor is half of the cost of the moto, a moto without a motor is similar to the cost of a bicycle. So yeah, there are $3500 motorcycles out there, but they’re not going to be anywhere as nice as a $3500 bike.

[Askel]

I'm looking at this for only $6250 + fees & taxes  ($7733 total)   Seems like a steal compared to a $5K bicycle

Where the hell are you getting an EC 250 for $6250?! Those are like $10k+ here. 

And it's a gas gas, so that's just the first big check you have to write.  :D   

I also caved. It'll be here Monday. 

[Dancin'Dog]

I'm looking at this for only $6250 + fees & taxes  ($7733 total)   Seems like a steal compared to a $5K bicycle

Where the hell are you getting an EC 250 for $6250?! Those are like $10k+ here. 

And it's a gas gas, so that's just the first big check you have to write.  :D   

I also caved. It'll be here Monday.

It was listed on Cycletrader.com by a dealer in Macon, GA.  I was originally shopping for either a KTM, Husky, or GasGas 300, but saw a forum post on a 300 thread mentioning that the 250 is very similar & better in some ways.  If I'd only searched for a 250 one day earlier it would have been mine.
It seems like the super-dealers that carry a dozen brands are the ones that offer big discounts when they need to move them out.  The small dealers seem to stick to MSRP.  I noticed a few other really low-priced bikes but they were all too far away to consider. 


A lot of riders seem to think KTMs/Husky/Gasgas are expensive to maintain but I never had any trouble with my old 2005 KTM 300.  The newer ones have e-start and FI, so I guess those could have some issues. 

[Askel]

I did some stalking based on the logo in the background and found the dealer web site with the discounted price. 

The only thing that makes me more nervous than a euro brand dirt bike is an alarmingly discounted euro brand dirt bike.  :D 

But I haven't really done motorcycles in 10+ years, so maybe they got their quality problems under control since then.   

I drank the bicycle Kool-Aid and haven't looked back. Way more fun, way less money, way better for me (or so I tell myself).   

[scottnews]

Salsa is having a 20% discount on their bicycles now.    I won't need a new one for a couple of years, when we hit fire, but it's tempting.   My current bike is an around town bike that isn't comfortable on long rides.

Specialized had a big sale this spring.  They were producing for pandemic level consumption.   Do bike sales like this always happen, or is it a one off?

[Askel]

Surly is also having a 20% off sale. Thankfully not on the model I just bought last week.  :D 

Manufacturer discounts like this are kinda rare, probably a result of production overruns from the pandemic bike boom.   

But in normal times, margins on bikes are like ~30%, so it's usually not too hard to get some steep MSRP discounts from your local bike shop, especially on more expensive bikes. 

[Uturn]

I've had my eye on this for a while.

https://lagunatools.com/classic/lathes/revo-12-16/

[Arbitrage]

Damn, I'm kinda wanting a new mountain bike right now too.  I've currently got a hardtail and it does great, but the funny thing about the full suspension bikes that have come out in the last ~2-3 years or so is that they're faster everywhere--up hills and down them.  Everyone I ride with has a full suspension, and several of them are faster than me...the logical leap is that I need a full suspension bike! 

Ugh.  My bike is *fine*. My bike is *fine*...but I really want an Epic Evo or a Santa Cruz Blur.  What I don't want is to spend $5000 to get one, which is what those two bikes cost.  This one is green though!

Well I caved, ordered an Epic Evo today.  I had been holding off, but they dropped the price by almost $1000.  While the issue has never been lack of actual money, I have always thought this particular bike cost too much, even if its the best of its class of bike.  With the price drop, its the best bike AND the cheapest, so I went for it. 

Something kinda weird, there was an offer to finance 0% for up to 48 months, so out of curiosity, I clicked it, expecting some crazy upfront fee or something.  I didn't find any fees so I went for it, figured that my $3500 could earn some interest instead of being in bicycle form.  It was with "Klarna", which I googled, and yes its a real company, apparently the merchant pays the fee to Klarna?

Anyways, so I financed an expensive bicycle toy. Will this get me kicked off the mustache forums?

Enjoy!  I'm loving my new (to me) bike; it has totally changed my riding experience.  Giving me a bit too much confidence, though, I need to rein it in a bit.  Unfortunately, most of my regular riding partners are switching over to e-MTB.  On regular bikes, I easily outclimb all of them, but obviously not once they have 500 extra watts of power carrying them up the mountain.  I don't mind so much as long as there's at least one other 'analog' rider with us, but the experience of chasing 3 e-bikers up the mountain a couple days ago was...annoying.  I don't actually want an e-MTB (yet), as I'm really appreciating getting in good biking shape, but if everyone starts racing up on e-bikes I'll probably do more solo rides. 

[GuitarStv]

Damn, I'm kinda wanting a new mountain bike right now too.  I've currently got a hardtail and it does great, but the funny thing about the full suspension bikes that have come out in the last ~2-3 years or so is that they're faster everywhere--up hills and down them.  Everyone I ride with has a full suspension, and several of them are faster than me...the logical leap is that I need a full suspension bike! 

Ugh.  My bike is *fine*. My bike is *fine*...but I really want an Epic Evo or a Santa Cruz Blur.  What I don't want is to spend $5000 to get one, which is what those two bikes cost.  This one is green though!

Well I caved, ordered an Epic Evo today.  I had been holding off, but they dropped the price by almost $1000.  While the issue has never been lack of actual money, I have always thought this particular bike cost too much, even if its the best of its class of bike.  With the price drop, its the best bike AND the cheapest, so I went for it. 

Something kinda weird, there was an offer to finance 0% for up to 48 months, so out of curiosity, I clicked it, expecting some crazy upfront fee or something.  I didn't find any fees so I went for it, figured that my $3500 could earn some interest instead of being in bicycle form.  It was with "Klarna", which I googled, and yes its a real company, apparently the merchant pays the fee to Klarna?

Anyways, so I financed an expensive bicycle toy. Will this get me kicked off the mustache forums?

Enjoy!  I'm loving my new (to me) bike; it has totally changed my riding experience.  Giving me a bit too much confidence, though, I need to rein it in a bit.  Unfortunately, most of my regular riding partners are switching over to e-MTB.  On regular bikes, I easily outclimb all of them, but obviously not once they have 500 extra watts of power carrying them up the mountain.  I don't mind so much as long as there's at least one other 'analog' rider with us, but the experience of chasing 3 e-bikers up the mountain a couple days ago was...annoying.  I don't actually want an e-MTB (yet), as I'm really appreciating getting in good biking shape, but if everyone starts racing up on e-bikes I'll probably do more solo rides.

I bet this is way worse on the trails than on road.  On road that the people on the e-bikes fly up the hills and then tend to get caught on the flats and especially the downhills since the electric motor cuts out at higher speeds and usually they're not in very good shape.  On mountain bike trails though, you're probably rarely hitting the cut out speed . . . so you're effectively chasing guys on electric dirt bikes.  :P

[Dicey]

I've had my eye on this for a while.

https://lagunatools.com/classic/lathes/revo-12-16/

Paging @Exflyboy...

[Exflyboy]

I've had my eye on this for a while.

https://lagunatools.com/classic/lathes/revo-12-16/

Paging @Exflyboy...

This is a wood lathe whereas I'm into machining metal.

One piece of intelligence I can provide is that should the PWM motor controller in this thing burn out, well you can find PWM controllers in treadmills.. People give them away for free and I'got 5 of them. The treadmill controller will easily drive a 1HP DC motor. The treadmills have 2hp+ motors in them.

Treadmills are a source of a surprising amount of free steel that is useful for welding projects..:)

[rothwem]

Damn, I'm kinda wanting a new mountain bike right now too.  I've currently got a hardtail and it does great, but the funny thing about the full suspension bikes that have come out in the last ~2-3 years or so is that they're faster everywhere--up hills and down them.  Everyone I ride with has a full suspension, and several of them are faster than me...the logical leap is that I need a full suspension bike! 

Ugh.  My bike is *fine*. My bike is *fine*...but I really want an Epic Evo or a Santa Cruz Blur.  What I don't want is to spend $5000 to get one, which is what those two bikes cost.  This one is green though!

Well I caved, ordered an Epic Evo today.  I had been holding off, but they dropped the price by almost $1000.  While the issue has never been lack of actual money, I have always thought this particular bike cost too much, even if its the best of its class of bike.  With the price drop, its the best bike AND the cheapest, so I went for it. 

Something kinda weird, there was an offer to finance 0% for up to 48 months, so out of curiosity, I clicked it, expecting some crazy upfront fee or something.  I didn't find any fees so I went for it, figured that my $3500 could earn some interest instead of being in bicycle form.  It was with "Klarna", which I googled, and yes its a real company, apparently the merchant pays the fee to Klarna?

Anyways, so I financed an expensive bicycle toy. Will this get me kicked off the mustache forums?

Enjoy!  I'm loving my new (to me) bike; it has totally changed my riding experience.  Giving me a bit too much confidence, though, I need to rein it in a bit.  Unfortunately, most of my regular riding partners are switching over to e-MTB.  On regular bikes, I easily outclimb all of them, but obviously not once they have 500 extra watts of power carrying them up the mountain.  I don't mind so much as long as there's at least one other 'analog' rider with us, but the experience of chasing 3 e-bikers up the mountain a couple days ago was...annoying.  I don't actually want an e-MTB (yet), as I'm really appreciating getting in good biking shape, but if everyone starts racing up on e-bikes I'll probably do more solo rides.

Aw, e-bikes are a plague.  I think they're good for vehicular cycling, but I just don't see the appeal for recreational cycling unless you're over 70 or have some other physical handicap.  Make sure you congratulate your friends on overcoming the odds...

[Ron Scott]

Apple Vision Pro

[Raenia]

A piano for my living room.

I barely play, and we're going to have a baby soon, so there's no way I'll have the time to practice. We'll want one someday, but now is a very stupid time to be contemplating it. But there's a perfect spot for one, with the way we've arranged the other furniture! :P

[ChpBstrd]

Damn, I'm kinda wanting a new mountain bike right now too.  I've currently got a hardtail and it does great, but the funny thing about the full suspension bikes that have come out in the last ~2-3 years or so is that they're faster everywhere--up hills and down them.  Everyone I ride with has a full suspension, and several of them are faster than me...the logical leap is that I need a full suspension bike! 

Ugh.  My bike is *fine*. My bike is *fine*...but I really want an Epic Evo or a Santa Cruz Blur.  What I don't want is to spend $5000 to get one, which is what those two bikes cost.  This one is green though!

Well I caved, ordered an Epic Evo today.  I had been holding off, but they dropped the price by almost $1000.  While the issue has never been lack of actual money, I have always thought this particular bike cost too much, even if its the best of its class of bike.  With the price drop, its the best bike AND the cheapest, so I went for it. 

Something kinda weird, there was an offer to finance 0% for up to 48 months, so out of curiosity, I clicked it, expecting some crazy upfront fee or something.  I didn't find any fees so I went for it, figured that my $3500 could earn some interest instead of being in bicycle form.  It was with "Klarna", which I googled, and yes its a real company, apparently the merchant pays the fee to Klarna?

Anyways, so I financed an expensive bicycle toy. Will this get me kicked off the mustache forums?

Enjoy!  I'm loving my new (to me) bike; it has totally changed my riding experience.  Giving me a bit too much confidence, though, I need to rein it in a bit.  Unfortunately, most of my regular riding partners are switching over to e-MTB.  On regular bikes, I easily outclimb all of them, but obviously not once they have 500 extra watts of power carrying them up the mountain.  I don't mind so much as long as there's at least one other 'analog' rider with us, but the experience of chasing 3 e-bikers up the mountain a couple days ago was...annoying.  I don't actually want an e-MTB (yet), as I'm really appreciating getting in good biking shape, but if everyone starts racing up on e-bikes I'll probably do more solo rides.

Aw, e-bikes are a plague.  I think they're good for vehicular cycling, but I just don't see the appeal for recreational cycling unless you're over 70 or have some other physical handicap.  Make sure you congratulate your friends on overcoming the odds...

It's another one of those "how much is good enough" and "luxury is a handicap" kind of things. While your friends will use less energy on the climbs, they will have to go out and earn the extra $5k to buy those bike/motorcycles. So the question is, would you rather be climbing slowly to the top of a hill or working as long as it takes to earn $5k?

I can't afford an ebike, not because of money, but because I don't get enough riding time for each ride not to be as intense as possible.

[ChpBstrd]

A piano for my living room.

I barely play, and we're going to have a baby soon, so there's no way I'll have the time to practice. We'll want one someday, but now is a very stupid time to be contemplating it. But there's a perfect spot for one, with the way we've arranged the other furniture! :P

In my area, these are given away for free all the time. Check FB Marketplace. You could have it for the cost of a moving crew and perhaps a tuner. The kid will love it.

[Raenia]

A piano for my living room.

I barely play, and we're going to have a baby soon, so there's no way I'll have the time to practice. We'll want one someday, but now is a very stupid time to be contemplating it. But there's a perfect spot for one, with the way we've arranged the other furniture! :P

In my area, these are given away for free all the time. Check FB Marketplace. You could have it for the cost of a moving crew and perhaps a tuner. The kid will love it.

Professional piano movers are extremely expensive, and also most of the pianos being given away are crappy instruments. My dad got one that way, and in spite of a lot of money spent on tuning and repair, the action and sound will never be good.

There are certainly good instruments people are getting rid of, but then we're back to the expense of getting it moved. Better to wait until the kiddo is old enough to enjoy it. Or at least interact with it.

[Arbitrage]

I bet this is way worse on the trails than on road.  On road that the people on the e-bikes fly up the hills and then tend to get caught on the flats and especially the downhills since the electric motor cuts out at higher speeds and usually they're not in very good shape.  On mountain bike trails though, you're probably rarely hitting the cut out speed . . . so you're effectively chasing guys on electric dirt bikes.  :P

Yeah, the motor cut-off speed (20 mph for the bikes that are allowed) never really comes into play on mountain singletrack.  While there are trails where you might be temporarily descending over that speed, you're not pedaling as well at that point; you're standing on the pedals, absorbing or enhancing features and shifting your weight around.  The e-bikes are basically allowing people to skip - or at least minimize - the cardio pain part of the experience.  Then they can just descend. 

Not something that makes sense everywhere - not where people are doing a lot of cross-country riding, for example - but in a steep, downhill-focused area, I get the reasoning.  It's sort of like doing "shuttle laps" (grabbing a couple of cars - more likely trucks - to drive the group up after each descent), or going to bike parks where they've repurposed a ski area for the summer.  Both very anti-mustachian, of course. 

It's funny, because the tide turned completely in my town over the past year or so.  Went from very anti-eMTB to suddenly very accepted and even the really good/experienced riders are getting one.  For me, I think the exercise is part of the experience.  There will probably be a point/age where I want mellower climbs, but I'm certainly not there yet.

[ChpBstrd]

I bet this is way worse on the trails than on road.  On road that the people on the e-bikes fly up the hills and then tend to get caught on the flats and especially the downhills since the electric motor cuts out at higher speeds and usually they're not in very good shape.  On mountain bike trails though, you're probably rarely hitting the cut out speed . . . so you're effectively chasing guys on electric dirt bikes.  :P

Yeah, the motor cut-off speed (20 mph for the bikes that are allowed) never really comes into play on mountain singletrack.  While there are trails where you might be temporarily descending over that speed, you're not pedaling as well at that point; you're standing on the pedals, absorbing or enhancing features and shifting your weight around.  The e-bikes are basically allowing people to skip - or at least minimize - the cardio pain part of the experience.  Then they can just descend. 

Not something that makes sense everywhere - not where people are doing a lot of cross-country riding, for example - but in a steep, downhill-focused area, I get the reasoning.  It's sort of like doing "shuttle laps" (grabbing a couple of cars - more likely trucks - to drive the group up after each descent), or going to bike parks where they've repurposed a ski area for the summer.  Both very anti-mustachian, of course. 

It's funny, because the tide turned completely in my town over the past year or so.  Went from very anti-eMTB to suddenly very accepted and even the really good/experienced riders are getting one.  For me, I think the exercise is part of the experience.  There will probably be a point/age where I want mellower climbs, but I'm certainly not there yet.

The rationale is that instead of a 10 mile ride you can do a 20 mile ride on an ebike in the same time and for the same amount of exercise. That makes sense if your idea of mountain biking is to cover as much distance as possible, but maybe makes less sense if fitness, achievement, enjoying nature on a small footprint, or frugality are also objectives. As a bike commuter, I would definitely want an ebike because the point is to cover the distance, but I wonder if you lose something off-road. I've ridden gasoline dirt bikes and had a good time, but there's something that makes me pick the MTB as a hobby over dirt biking. Yes, the dirt bike covers a lot more ground a lot faster and with less exhaustion than the MTB. It arguably offers more comfort and excitement too. Plus, a 2023 Honda CRF250 can be had for less than the price of many e-MTBs. But I actually like the exhaustion and the feeling of having personally conquered a hill. I obtain engagement and focus picking my way through rock gardens rather than blasting over everything dirt bike style. Yes, I ride a cushy 29er, and riding a 26" Huffy would make things trickier and more exhausting, but I'm at a happy point between suffering too much and being a fat guy riding an ATV who isn't accomplishing anything. Maybe eMTBs are a closely adjacent happy point, but I'll just have to see someday when someone is willing to loan me their $10k bicycle.

[Askel]

Ripping on e-bikes! How delightfully old-timey! Just like the good ol' days back in 2018!   

Remember, you should never add any option to a bicycle that makes it easier or more fun to ride including, but not limited to- electric assist, suspension, gears, brakes, freehubs, pneumatic tires, and chain driven rear wheels.   

And if you're worried you won't get the exercise, plenty of research out there indicating e-bike riders get just as much or more exercise than their meat-bike counterparts.  Or, if you prefer old racing maxims- "It doesn't get easier, you just go faster."   

(Got my new bike out for a spin last night- 51 tooth max rear cog, utter decadence and pure wasteful spending! I should be cranking up those hills in nothing less than 53x11!)

[GuitarStv]

Git yer durned e-bikes offa my lawn ya damned hipsters!

[getsorted]

A piano for my living room.

I barely play, and we're going to have a baby soon, so there's no way I'll have the time to practice. We'll want one someday, but now is a very stupid time to be contemplating it. But there's a perfect spot for one, with the way we've arranged the other furniture! :P

In my area, these are given away for free all the time. Check FB Marketplace. You could have it for the cost of a moving crew and perhaps a tuner. The kid will love it.

Professional piano movers are extremely expensive, and also most of the pianos being given away are crappy instruments. My dad got one that way, and in spite of a lot of money spent on tuning and repair, the action and sound will never be good.

There are certainly good instruments people are getting rid of, but then we're back to the expense of getting it moved. Better to wait until the kiddo is old enough to enjoy it. Or at least interact with it.

Very true. I tried unsuccessfully to give away my freebie piano for several years, and because it was an upright, it would have cost a few hundred just to get someone to haul it off. Most of the time my "please take this piano" ad was up, if someone wanted it to play, I would have them come over and play it first to see if they thought it was worth the hassle of moving.

Neither I nor anyone else wanted to bother to repair and/or move it, so I finally disassembled it last week. In the process, I found several broken bits internally, plus more dust than I've ever seen in my life, so I know repair would probably never have worked out.

I listed the cast-iron harp, strings, steel pegs, and all the metal bits on FB Marketplace, and they went to a guy who said he was going to make art out of them.

Now I've got to figure out what to do with all these very nice furniture-grade oak panels. I actually had a ton of fun disassembling the piano. It was one of those oddly satisfying activities.

[Arbitrage]

Ripping on e-bikes! How delightfully old-timey! Just like the good ol' days back in 2018!   

Remember, you should never add any option to a bicycle that makes it easier or more fun to ride including, but not limited to- electric assist, suspension, gears, brakes, freehubs, pneumatic tires, and chain driven rear wheels.   

And if you're worried you won't get the exercise, plenty of research out there indicating e-bike riders get just as much or more exercise than their meat-bike counterparts.  Or, if you prefer old racing maxims- "It doesn't get easier, you just go faster."   

(Got my new bike out for a spin last night- 51 tooth max rear cog, utter decadence and pure wasteful spending! I should be cranking up those hills in nothing less than 53x11!)

So, I ride an e-bike as a car replacement.  Love them and think most people should be riding them around town instead of driving.  I do think riding up mountain singletrack is a bit different, though - you can't just pedal faster and work as hard as you would on an analog bike on many trails, as you're often constrained by the tight turns and technicality of the trail.  Also, climbing like that reaches a level of exertion that I don't really ever go to on my e-bike, and the e-bikers I ride with and see on the mountain never bother pedaling that hard.  I will grant that some of the e-bikers are going more frequently, and occasionally further, than they would otherwise, which I think is great.  I think that the e-MTBers could potentially end up burning a similar amount of calories if they go often/far enough (lending credence to the 'similar amount of exercise' argument) but not building the heart and leg strength quite as much.

Am I opposed to them on the mountain?  Nope.  I do think the social aspect of mountain biking is harmed when some are on e-bikes and some are not, though, which was the impetus for my bitching in the first place.

[ChpBstrd]

Ripping on e-bikes! How delightfully old-timey! Just like the good ol' days back in 2018!   

Remember, you should never add any option to a bicycle that makes it easier or more fun to ride including, but not limited to- electric assist, suspension, gears, brakes, freehubs, pneumatic tires, and chain driven rear wheels.   

And if you're worried you won't get the exercise, plenty of research out there indicating e-bike riders get just as much or more exercise than their meat-bike counterparts.  Or, if you prefer old racing maxims- "It doesn't get easier, you just go faster."   

(Got my new bike out for a spin last night- 51 tooth max rear cog, utter decadence and pure wasteful spending! I should be cranking up those hills in nothing less than 53x11!)

So, I ride an e-bike as a car replacement.  Love them and think most people should be riding them around town instead of driving.  I do think riding up mountain singletrack is a bit different, though - you can't just pedal faster and work as hard as you would on an analog bike on many trails, as you're often constrained by the tight turns and technicality of the trail.  Also, climbing like that reaches a level of exertion that I don't really ever go to on my e-bike, and the e-bikers I ride with and see on the mountain never bother pedaling that hard.  I will grant that some of the e-bikers are going more frequently, and occasionally further, than they would otherwise, which I think is great.  I think that the e-MTBers could potentially end up burning a similar amount of calories if they go often/far enough (lending credence to the 'similar amount of exercise' argument) but not building the heart and leg strength quite as much.

Am I opposed to them on the mountain?  Nope.  I do think the social aspect of mountain biking is harmed when some are on e-bikes and some are not, though, which was the impetus for my bitching in the first place.

The mountain e-bikers might burn the same calories if they spend longer on the trail and/or go further and/or ride faster. One way to view that is you've bought an exercise machine that takes longer to get the same amount of work done. But if they're having more fun, that's great!

E-bikers will 100% burn more money though. $2,500 analog mountain bikes depreciate to maybe $500 in resale value over 15 years (e.g. $133/year). A $5,000 e-bike will likely end up at close to the same price point (e.g. $300/year). In addition, they'll need a battery and/or controller and/or display replacement after a certain number of years/miles, so you'll be trying to sell somebody a 45lb mountain bike that can be an ebike again if they can find a rare part. That's a tougher sell than the analog bike, which will likely still be ready to go and not require any hard-to-find parts. The beginners and dabblers who buy at this price point want something that works, not a project.

It's already getting harder to find nice 26" tires, 27.2mm dropper posts, mid to high-end straight tube forks, or non-boost wheelsets, and all those things were ubiquitous just 10 years ago. Just imagine when it's 2038 and you're looking for a working Bosch Nyon display that was only used by 4 manufacturers on 34 rare models fifteen years ago.

[Taran Wanderer]

I bought a new FS 29er earlier this year. There was an option to buy this year’s model and get electronic shifters/derailleurs. No thank you. The struggle with parts for older bikes is real, and more electronics only makes it worse. Add batteries into the mix and it’s only going to get worse. Heck, getting a new battery for my older DeWalt drill was almost as much as just getting a new drill (with battery!). Sometimes “new and improved” actually suckers you into more future expenses. Maybe we’re better off sticking with manual and old-fashioned.

[Exflyboy]

I bought a new FS 29er earlier this year. There was an option to buy this year’s model and get electronic shifters/derailleurs. No thank you. The struggle with parts for older bikes is real, and more electronics only makes it worse. Add batteries into the mix and it’s only going to get worse. Heck, getting a new battery for my older DeWalt drill was almost as much as just getting a new drill (with battery!). Sometimes “new and improved” actually suckers you into more future expenses. Maybe we’re better off sticking with manual and old-fashioned.

FYI. You can actually rebuild those Dewalt battery packs. They come apart (srcews) and new cells for both Ni CAd and Li-ion can be bought on Ebay.

I am told to make sure to buy the proper Japanese cells and then solder them in.. Last time I looked a pack could be rebuilt for about $30.

[ChpBstrd]

I bought a new FS 29er earlier this year. There was an option to buy this year’s model and get electronic shifters/derailleurs. No thank you. The struggle with parts for older bikes is real, and more electronics only makes it worse. Add batteries into the mix and it’s only going to get worse. Heck, getting a new battery for my older DeWalt drill was almost as much as just getting a new drill (with battery!). Sometimes “new and improved” actually suckers you into more future expenses. Maybe we’re better off sticking with manual and old-fashioned.

Yea, I often say modern MTBs have more in common with fighter jets than the old schwinn cruisers people started riding off road with in the 80's. We're stretching the engineering to make 32lb bikes handle conditions and jumps 1970's dirt bikes couldn't handle, and as a result bikes are getting high-maintenance.

Every few hundred miles, you need to replace and/or reseal tires, rebuild the suspension, replace brake pads, adjust all cables, measure and lube or replace the chain, lube the half-dozen pivot points, replace any batteries in your computer, shifters, or lights, and inspect the carbon fiber frame for any hairline cracks that could kill you on the next drop. Then if you ride hard you're likely to break things often, like snapped spokes, dented rims, cut tires, blown out shock seals, or bent chainrings - any one of which is a three-figure repair bill. Several components require specialized training to service. Then, of course, this bike which originally cost the Roth IRA contribution limit is rapidly depreciating as new technologies and design trends converge to make it obsolete. And this picture I just painted is of an analog bike, not an e-bike, which will require a new battery, controller, or gauge within the next 5-10 years, and which might accelerate all the other components' wear because now you're riding a motorcycle with bicycle components.   

It's no wonder a lot of MTBers are going back to BMX and pump track riding on simple, low maintenance bikes. It's also no wonder a lot of roadies are resisting trends that started in MTBs like thru axles and disc brakes. Modern MTBs are better in every way than they've ever been, but in the same ways a fighter jet that costs a million dollars per flight is better than a Cessna.

[Exflyboy]

@ChpBstrd A flight is almost any airplane is better than a Cessna*,

Yours truely

Am airplane snob..:)

* Actually thats a bit harsh.

[cleverscreenname]

the cost of snowmobile registration and insurance...

Did not know that was even a thing. Around here ATVs are registration and insurance free - and off-road only. Some SxS vehicles can be registered and insured for limited uses.

I'd like to buy an electric XBUS and register it as a SxS type vehicle to get around import rules. Would be plenty of vehicle for me to run to the hardware store or to fetch a gallon of milk. Similar width as 60s VW van, shorter though. Similar safety.

Cool bike video. Would be a bear on the hills to pedal though...

Thanks! I was pretty blown away myself. I'm surprised it didn't garner more attention when I posted it.

[cleverscreenname]

It's another one of those "how much is good enough" and "luxury is a handicap" kind of things. While your friends will use less energy on the climbs, they will have to go out and earn the extra $5k to buy those bike/motorcycles. So the question is, would you rather be climbing slowly to the top of a hill or working as long as it takes to earn $5k?

I can't afford an ebike, not because of money, but because I don't get enough riding time for each ride not to be as intense as possible.

Yeah that's crazy money compared to just buying a $200 kit to convert an existing bike, and having comparable speed, power, and range. I've done a few of those.

[cleverscreenname]

FYI. You can actually rebuild those Dewalt battery packs. They come apart (srcews) and new cells for both Ni CAd and Li-ion can be bought on Ebay.

I am told to make sure to buy the proper Japanese cells and then solder them in.. Last time I looked a pack could be rebuilt for about $30.

That's wonderful news, what type of solder would be the appropriate? I must be green to  soldering, because I've had trouble getting it to melt.

[Dancin'Dog]

It's another one of those "how much is good enough" and "luxury is a handicap" kind of things. While your friends will use less energy on the climbs, they will have to go out and earn the extra $5k to buy those bike/motorcycles. So the question is, would you rather be climbing slowly to the top of a hill or working as long as it takes to earn $5k?

I can't afford an ebike, not because of money, but because I don't get enough riding time for each ride not to be as intense as possible.

Yeah that's crazy money compared to just buying a $200 kit to convert an existing bike, and having comparable speed, power, and range. I've done a few of those.

I’ve looked at the conversion kits but didn’t know how to choose which one.  Do you have any recommendations about what to look for?  Motor type, wattage, and battery size were the things I was wondering about.
It looks like a cheap way to be zipping around and having fun. 

[RWD]

@ChpBstrd A flight is almost any airplane is better than a Cessna*,

Yours truely

Am airplane snob..:)

* Actually thats a bit harsh.

Cessna makes a very broad range of aircraft. You could do a lot worse than a Cessna Citation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_Citation_Longitude

[cleverscreenname]

Almost never here for cars but when will they make an electric Jimny? I feel like Suzuki is leaving a lot of money on the table.

I feel the same way about a Hybrid Honda Odyssey.  I was thrilled when Toyota came out with the hybrid Sienna, but they ruined its functionality at the same time.  I'm hoping Honda can swoop in where Toyota dropped the ball.

I too, am on pins-and-needles waiting for an asian hybrid van. What did they ruin on the Sienna? I used to have a 2006 Sienna, but could no longer stomach the almost $1000 to change 4 oxygen sensors to pass inspection! (when a Dodge Caravan functions with just 2 oxygen sensors totaling $50!)

[cleverscreenname]

GreenEggs, if you look at the factory ebikes they will tell you wattage/mph and battery range, then you can find a comparable conversion kit and see the savings. My preferred shop is eBay. A $200 kit will get you an easy 20-25 mph (200-500 watts) and at least 10 miles of range, maybe even 25 (10ah?).

LFP (LiFePO4) batteries are literally bulletproof-safe but have a flat discharge voltage curve and a little more bulky.
Other lithium types would ignite if you hammer a nail thru them, but they are much easier to read the battery SOC (% storage level)

The motors come already laced into a wheel with a tire mounted. All you have to do is plug some cables together, zip-tie them to the frame, and slide the throttle lever over your handlebar. Front wheel is easier than rear wheel, and geared motors are excellent hill climbers (even when I've loaded them down with 400 lbs!)

Remember to be nice to your lithium batteries:
Don't charge them below 40f or above 113f, and remember that 100% charge and 0% empty is extra wear and tear, so try use it right after the charge finishes. 20-50% is ideal for storage.

[Dancin'Dog]

GreenEggs, if you look at the factory ebikes they will tell you wattage/mph and battery range, then you can find a comparable conversion kit and see the savings. My preferred shop is eBay. A $200 kit will get you an easy 20-25 mph (200-500 watts) and at least 10 miles of range, maybe even 25 (10ah?).

LFP (LiFePO4) batteries are literally bulletproof-safe but have a flat discharge voltage curve and a little more bulky.
Other lithium types would ignite if you hammer a nail thru them, but they are much easier to read the battery SOC (% storage level)

The motors come already laced into a wheel with a tire mounted. All you have to do is plug some cables together, zip-tie them to the frame, and slide the throttle lever over your handlebar. Front wheel is easier than rear wheel, and geared motors are excellent hill climbers (even when I've loaded them down with 400 lbs!)

Remember to be nice to your lithium batteries:
Don't charge them below 40f or above 113f, and remember that 100% charge and 0% empty is extra wear and tear, so try use it right after the charge finishes. 20-50% is ideal for storage.

That was exactly the kind of advice I needed. Basic stuff if you’re experienced, but just what I needed.  I’ll try one, and then convert another for DW, after I’ve learned from it. 


Thanks

[Raenia]

Today I'm lusting after fruit trees for the garden. This is particularly silly, because it's the wrong season to plant them, and I'm not supposed to garden while pregnant (toxoplasmosis risk). But I just finished canning up a bucket of sour cherries, and I want! And window shopping trees led me to black currant bushes, and alpine strawberries, and and and...

Next year. If we're not too exhausted with an infant...

[zolotiyeruki]

Almost never here for cars but when will they make an electric Jimny? I feel like Suzuki is leaving a lot of money on the table.

I feel the same way about a Hybrid Honda Odyssey.  I was thrilled when Toyota came out with the hybrid Sienna, but they ruined its functionality at the same time.  I'm hoping Honda can swoop in where Toyota dropped the ball.

I too, am on pins-and-needles waiting for an asian hybrid van. What did they ruin on the Sienna? I used to have a 2006 Sienna, but could no longer stomach the almost $1000 to change 4 oxygen sensors to pass inspection! (when a Dodge Caravan functions with just 2 oxygen sensors totaling $50!)

You can find my rants about the Sienna here, but here's a short version: if you're a family no larger than 4, never plan to haul 4x8 goods, and don't do road trips with little kids, they're pretty nice. Or even shorter: it has all the impracticality of an SUV with all the cachet of a minivan.  The worst of both worlds.

The biggest issues:
--If you haul large stuff, forget it.  The 2nd row seats are bolted to the floor, because they have sensors for the new air bags.
--Seats 5-8 (back row and the plus-one) aren't very comfy.  You can literally feel the frame through the cushion of the plus-one seat.
--If you have little kids and take road trips, you'll find that the fixed, non-removable center console is a Bad Thing.  You have to be a contortionist to climb back from the front seat, and that precious, precious between-the-front-seats storage space is all but eliminated.

We're a family of 8 and I DIY a lot, and when we travel, we drive, although our kids are no longer little.

As for the features and driving dynamics, we weren't bothered by anything.  It's fine, and gets fantastic gas mileage.  But minivans used to be a case of "give up the cool factor in exchange for a boat load of practicality," and the new Sienna is "give up the cool for a little marginal practicality."

[cleverscreenname]

That was exactly the kind of advice I needed. Basic stuff if you’re experienced, but just what I needed.  I’ll try one, and then convert another for DW, after I’ve learned from it. 


Thanks

You're very welcome! In fact, I have at least one unused motor-in-wheel lying around I'd sell to you for a mustachian price. It's still in the shipping box it came to me in, eliminating any packing effort!

[cleverscreenname]

WOW! Those 2nd row seats have the same annoying anti-usefulness as the Tesla Model X! Hopefully they could be unbolted for a full-time work van, but sheesh. And my 2006 3rd row seats were as good as 2nd, unlike the new hybrid you reviewed. Thanks for your write-up!

[zolotiyeruki]

WOW! Those 2nd row seats have the same annoying anti-usefulness as the Tesla Model X! Hopefully they could be unbolted for a full-time work van, but sheesh. And my 2006 3rd row seats were as good as 2nd, unlike the new hybrid you reviewed. Thanks for your write-up!

Yes, they can be removed with a wrench, but then you have to put a dummy plug on the end of the airbag sensor wires.

[rothwem]

Damn, I'm kinda wanting a new mountain bike right now too.  I've currently got a hardtail and it does great, but the funny thing about the full suspension bikes that have come out in the last ~2-3 years or so is that they're faster everywhere--up hills and down them.  Everyone I ride with has a full suspension, and several of them are faster than me...the logical leap is that I need a full suspension bike! 

Ugh.  My bike is *fine*. My bike is *fine*...but I really want an Epic Evo or a Santa Cruz Blur.  What I don't want is to spend $5000 to get one, which is what those two bikes cost.  This one is green though!

Well I caved, ordered an Epic Evo today.  I had been holding off, but they dropped the price by almost $1000.  While the issue has never been lack of actual money, I have always thought this particular bike cost too much, even if its the best of its class of bike.  With the price drop, its the best bike AND the cheapest, so I went for it. 

Something kinda weird, there was an offer to finance 0% for up to 48 months, so out of curiosity, I clicked it, expecting some crazy upfront fee or something.  I didn't find any fees so I went for it, figured that my $3500 could earn some interest instead of being in bicycle form.  It was with "Klarna", which I googled, and yes its a real company, apparently the merchant pays the fee to Klarna?

Anyways, so I financed an expensive bicycle toy. Will this get me kicked off the mustache forums?

Enjoy!  I'm loving my new (to me) bike; it has totally changed my riding experience.  Giving me a bit too much confidence, though, I need to rein it in a bit.  Unfortunately, most of my regular riding partners are switching over to e-MTB.  On regular bikes, I easily outclimb all of them, but obviously not once they have 500 extra watts of power carrying them up the mountain.  I don't mind so much as long as there's at least one other 'analog' rider with us, but the experience of chasing 3 e-bikers up the mountain a couple days ago was...annoying.  I don't actually want an e-MTB (yet), as I'm really appreciating getting in good biking shape, but if everyone starts racing up on e-bikes I'll probably do more solo rides.

Aw, e-bikes are a plague.  I think they're good for vehicular cycling, but I just don't see the appeal for recreational cycling unless you're over 70 or have some other physical handicap.  Make sure you congratulate your friends on overcoming the odds...

It's another one of those "how much is good enough" and "luxury is a handicap" kind of things. While your friends will use less energy on the climbs, they will have to go out and earn the extra $5k to buy those bike/motorcycles. So the question is, would you rather be climbing slowly to the top of a hill or working as long as it takes to earn $5k?

I can't afford an ebike, not because of money, but because I don't get enough riding time for each ride not to be as intense as possible.

Man, so this is weird.  I got the bike, built it up, and dang its pretty. 

There's a group that I ride with that is pretty chill on the uphills, but really lets it rip on the downhill parts of the trail.  I never had issues keeping up on the uphills, but with my old hardtail, they'd usually finish ~30 seconds or so faster than me on a longer 4-5 minute descents and it bugged me that they had to wait.  They're all on full suspension bikes, and I knew that if I had a full suspension I'd be right up there, but jeez, I had no idea it would make this much difference.  I've gone from being the slowest one to the fastest one, which is kinda cool, buttttt...

I sortof don't feel like I've earned it.  Sortof like I've got a downhill ebike, like its cheating.  I'm pretty sure I'm going to keep it, but I honestly didn't expect to feel this way about going fast on a bicycle. 

[Askel]

Think of it this way- you've learned a bunch of skills trying to go as fast as you can on your hardtail that those guys will never even get the chance to learn.  Sure, the bike is doing a lot, but if you hadn't spent all that time honing those skills- you'd never be able to take advantage of it.   

Bask in your well earned skills!

[Metalcat]

Think of it this way- you've learned a bunch of skills trying to go as fast as you can on your hardtail that those guys will never even get the chance to learn.  Sure, the bike is doing a lot, but if you hadn't spent all that time honing those skills- you'd never be able to take advantage of it.   

Bask in your well earned skills!

This is exactly what DH said. He didn't upgrade to full suspension until he was nearly 50 and his knee started acting up on looooong mountain bike rides. Instead of, y'know, going out for less than 6-8 frickin' hours at a time, I found him a nice used full suspension bike.

He says he's really happy he did those decades on hardtail, because he feels like he would have been WAY to cocky and overconfident had be started out with full suspension. So when he hits nasty terrain or something goes sideways, he feels he can really lean on his skills to keep him safer.