Author Topic: What's the sorriest situation you've known of someone who couldn't retire?  (Read 50515 times)

marty998

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Naturally, he has a 7th kid with a 6th woman. And yet again, no, they're not married.

Nooooooooooooooo!!!!!

I mean, kid 1, okay...mistake made. Kid 2, well, another lesson learned. Kid 3...TIME FOR A VASECTOMY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yup. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me 6-7 times? Well that's just the stubornness of a moron who thinks he's Superman (or Kool Aid Man) running into a wall over and over.

Biological urge to breed is far too strong in some people... they need to be saved from themselves.

DebtFreeinPhilly

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I recently heard about a US Marshal that had worked for the government for 28 years and never contributed to his TSP/401k. Apparently he only had about $40,000 in the account from the mandatory 1% the government puts in.

sherr

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Biological urge to breed is far too strong in some people... they need to be saved from themselves.

No. Down that path lies madness.

He's already paying for his mistakes, all is as it should be.

talltexan

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She wasn't too worried, though, because her father promised her a big inheritance (MILLIONS, he said).  But, not a penny if she left her husband.

WTF? Where does an arrangement like that come from?

I could totally see my parents doing something like this. They love my wife. If anything ever happened to our marriage, they would take her side.

My parents may not leave me $millions anyway, hopefully they'll enjoy their money.

DebtFreeinPhilly

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I recently heard about a US Marshal that had worked for the government for 28 years and never contributed to his TSP/401k. Apparently he only had about $40,000 in the account from the mandatory 1% the government puts in.
If he's a US Marshall for 28 years he has a federal pension which is likely pretty high along with low cost retiree medical. He will be totally fine.

Not necessarily. He would be totally fine if he followed MMM, retired with no debt, and lived in a LCOL area. He will be screwed if he is mandatory retirement age, was living paycheck to paycheck, and has any type of debt. I wouldn't want to be him in either scenario because once he dies, the pension goes away leaving his family with nothing.

wenchsenior

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I recently heard about a US Marshal that had worked for the government for 28 years and never contributed to his TSP/401k. Apparently he only had about $40,000 in the account from the mandatory 1% the government puts in.
If he's a US Marshall for 28 years he has a federal pension which is likely pretty high along with low cost retiree medical. He will be totally fine.

Not necessarily. He would be totally fine if he followed MMM, retired with no debt, and lived in a LCOL area. He will be screwed if he is mandatory retirement age, was living paycheck to paycheck, and has any type of debt. I wouldn't want to be him in either scenario because once he dies, the pension goes away leaving his family with nothing.

If it's a federal pension, he can always opt for the version with the survivor benefit.

JGS1980

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The people I'm sorry for don't deserve their bad luck. This is the story of a woman I knew.

When I was younger, I knew a young woman whose mother was diagnosed with MS while my friend was at university. The mother went downhill rapidly, and became wheelchair bound by the time my friend was 25. Needless to say, my friend did most of the care for her mother, and so had limited opportunity to have a job - let alone a career. So she became a "temp" and worked at all sorts of places except on the days she had to do things for her mother. Her care stopped the mother from needing to be admitted to a nursing home, but the mother needed to be strapped into the wheelchair, and wheeled everywhere (she couldn't move it herself).

When she was 35, she started to have problems with the feelings in her limbs. She was diagnosed, and had MS herself. She could no longer look after her mother, who went into a nursing home, and died shortly afterward. She, herself, was soon only able to walk with calipers. She still worked, when she could. It took a further 10 years for her to be wheelchair bound. She's now dead, but she could never retire. She never had any opportunity to earn much.

Just before she was diagnosed, she met a guy, and they fell in love, but his two children completely rejected her, so they reluctantly parted. It was the only time she ever had a boyfriend. She never had much of a job, so she always lived hand to mouth. She never had anyone to look after her, the way she had looked after her mother.

This one was too much [tear in my eye]

JGS

Catbert

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I recently heard about a US Marshal that had worked for the government for 28 years and never contributed to his TSP/401k. Apparently he only had about $40,000 in the account from the mandatory 1% the government puts in.
If he's a US Marshall for 28 years he has a federal pension which is likely pretty high along with low cost retiree medical. He will be totally fine.

Not necessarily. He would be totally fine if he followed MMM, retired with no debt, and lived in a LCOL area. He will be screwed if he is mandatory retirement age, was living paycheck to paycheck, and has any type of debt. I wouldn't want to be him in either scenario because once he dies, the pension goes away leaving his family with nothing.

If it's a federal pension, he can always opt for the version with the survivor benefit.

And, in fact, if he wants to not have a survivor benefit his spouse will have to agree/sign away her rights.  With CSRS pension (old Federal pension system) the max survivor benefit is 55%.  Not sure if FERS has the same survivor %.

MishMash

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My FIL:

Married DHs mom, who had a wealthy family, worked as a lawyer, got a taste of the finer things in life, thought he was entitled to all of it, including entitled to his secretary.  Got divorced, tried to go after the mothers family for "support" since they were paying moms salary during divorce.  Stress of it all literally killed DHs mom.  FIL gets engaged to the secretary, who turns out to be crazy pants, so he splits when he finds woman number 3 DHs step mom, who is 20 years younger.

Married 20 years, him making 300k plus most of the time.  Lived in multi million dollar interest only mortgage homes in CA.  Her two kids had to have the BEST of everything, private schools, cars, Ivy League colleges etc.  She of course never worked.  FIL looses his job in the recession, can't find another one because he's 1. Lazy and 2. retirement age.  So they start raiding what little retirement accounts he had to hold onto the interest only mortgage house.  Stepmom sees he can't afford her anymore, divorces him and takes half of the remaining assets. 

FIL ends up in an extended stay hotel, racking up six figures in credit card debt, gets injured, and because he doesn't have a woman doing things for him for the first time in his life, is living in his own filth.

Cue in DHs shithole siblings telling DH he needs to "save his fathers life" and I now have a 71 year old man child living in the guest room.  He does nothing all day, is racist and sexist, is fighting us tooth and nail on paying back his credit cards (I said bankrupt them and he won't) owes us 15k (which we won't see) and refuses to act like an adult so we've had to deal with things like hauling him to the ER because he dehydrated himself by drinking nothing but beer and eating salty junk food (I don't buy it, he mail orders it and is hiding it in the house).  Oh, and yesterday he shit himself because he had gastric bypass, and ate a ton of fatty food, which he KNOWS upsets his stomach due to the fat malabsorption from the surgery.  And no it wasn't a little "don't trust this fart" one, it was a throw out all your clothes in sealed bag outside one. 

And yes, we've forced him to the doctor about this and they ran every test known to man on him, they said it's a result of the bypass and he just needs to stop eating shit food and drinking beer.  And he won't.

We also found out this week that WE are his retirement plan, he wants to follow us around until the day he dies.  We told him one year when he moved in.  So there was a coming to jesus moment where DH laid down the law this weekend.  I think it went in one ear and out the other.

We kicked him out officially.  Overheard him saying all sorts of nasty shit about us like how dare we make him do a budget, he just floats on the wind, and that we have "abused the privilege of having him in our household" and that my husband is weak for not standing up to me so on and so forth.  DH walked in and said "well, I just heard everything" and his dad was like how dare you invade my privacy.  I said it's not invading your privacy when we can hear you through a closed door and across the hallway in our bedroom.  He told me to shut the fuck up and that I didn't have a right to say anything to him, it wasn't my "place"  I lost my ever loving shit on him and DH told him to get the fuck out within 48 hours.  Got him a one way plane ticket to CA the next day and he is now living in an apartment that costs his entire social security check.  So, yea, he's going to be homeless in a couple years once the cards are all maxed out again.

DH told his sister she could have been more helpful, and stepped in earlier.  To which she responded how dare he, doesn't he know she has children.  It's been three weeks and we haven't heard anything from a single member of his family.  We are the demon spawn to them all apparently.  Even though not one of them lifted a single finger to help him when he needed it.  He pretty much told her to lose his number.

Hula Hoop

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Mishmash - good for you for standing up to him.  And very sorry that he and your SIL said all those mean things about you.  You definitely don't deserve it. 

Candace

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MishMash, big hugs from this online stranger. I hope you can now decompress and start to feel like you're not under siege in your own home. Good on DH for doing the right thing, even though I'm sure it was tough and he'll feel guilty in spite of not having a better option.

Whew. What a story. I wish you some peace and recovery time.

wenchsenior

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What a horror show, MishMash.  You ABSOLUTELY did the right thing.  Please try to find some peace now...some people can't be helped.

Slee_stack

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Sounds like a celebration for MishMash.  Just excised a boatload of cancer from your life!  I suspect you'll be deliriously happy quite soon, if not already.

I had to laugh at the absurdity of the 'abused the privilege' line.  Folks can be quite creative in their delusions.


Exflyboy

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Awesome.. Wish I could have been a fly on the wall for that conversation..:)

Not to make light of the issue as I'm sure this whole nightmare has been brutally hard.


merula

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I, for one, would like an expansion on the "lost my ever-loving shit on him" gloss-over.

Nice job!

pecunia

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Quote
What's the sorriest situation you've known of someone who couldn't retire?

This may not be the sorriest, but it's true.  It's also a variation from many of these.

I'm quite cheap, not frugal, cheap.  I worked with this fellow, F  I told him, "I'll bet I'm cheaper than you."  F proved me wrong.

F worked and his wife worked at a school cafeteria.   Their food was the leftovers from the cafeteria.   I once asked our supervisor where F was.  I was told that this was the time he went to the bathroom every day.  He had calculated the savings on paper and water and so used the facilities at work.  This was typical of F.

F got to be about 67.  I am certain he and his wife had a stash in the millions.  There was a change in retirement benefits.  I am not sure how it worked out, but F said he would actually make more money if he didn't work.  So he retired.

About a year after he retired, he developed brain cancer and died.  Some may not get the sadness of this, but that money made him a slave. 

SwordGuy

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My FIL:

Married DHs mom, who had a wealthy family, worked as a lawyer, got a taste of the finer things in life, thought he was entitled to all of it, including entitled to his secretary.  Got divorced, tried to go after the mothers family for "support" since they were paying moms salary during divorce.  Stress of it all literally killed DHs mom.  FIL gets engaged to the secretary, who turns out to be crazy pants, so he splits when he finds woman number 3 DHs step mom, who is 20 years younger.

Married 20 years, him making 300k plus most of the time.  Lived in multi million dollar interest only mortgage homes in CA.  Her two kids had to have the BEST of everything, private schools, cars, Ivy League colleges etc.  She of course never worked.  FIL looses his job in the recession, can't find another one because he's 1. Lazy and 2. retirement age.  So they start raiding what little retirement accounts he had to hold onto the interest only mortgage house.  Stepmom sees he can't afford her anymore, divorces him and takes half of the remaining assets. 

FIL ends up in an extended stay hotel, racking up six figures in credit card debt, gets injured, and because he doesn't have a woman doing things for him for the first time in his life, is living in his own filth.

Cue in DHs shithole siblings telling DH he needs to "save his fathers life" and I now have a 71 year old man child living in the guest room.  He does nothing all day, is racist and sexist, is fighting us tooth and nail on paying back his credit cards (I said bankrupt them and he won't) owes us 15k (which we won't see) and refuses to act like an adult so we've had to deal with things like hauling him to the ER because he dehydrated himself by drinking nothing but beer and eating salty junk food (I don't buy it, he mail orders it and is hiding it in the house).  Oh, and yesterday he shit himself because he had gastric bypass, and ate a ton of fatty food, which he KNOWS upsets his stomach due to the fat malabsorption from the surgery.  And no it wasn't a little "don't trust this fart" one, it was a throw out all your clothes in sealed bag outside one. 

And yes, we've forced him to the doctor about this and they ran every test known to man on him, they said it's a result of the bypass and he just needs to stop eating shit food and drinking beer.  And he won't.

We also found out this week that WE are his retirement plan, he wants to follow us around until the day he dies.  We told him one year when he moved in.  So there was a coming to jesus moment where DH laid down the law this weekend.  I think it went in one ear and out the other.

We kicked him out officially.  Overheard him saying all sorts of nasty shit about us like how dare we make him do a budget, he just floats on the wind, and that we have "abused the privilege of having him in our household" and that my husband is weak for not standing up to me so on and so forth.  DH walked in and said "well, I just heard everything" and his dad was like how dare you invade my privacy.  I said it's not invading your privacy when we can hear you through a closed door and across the hallway in our bedroom.  He told me to shut the fuck up and that I didn't have a right to say anything to him, it wasn't my "place"  I lost my ever loving shit on him and DH told him to get the fuck out within 48 hours.  Got him a one way plane ticket to CA the next day and he is now living in an apartment that costs his entire social security check.  So, yea, he's going to be homeless in a couple years once the cards are all maxed out again.

DH told his sister she could have been more helpful, and stepped in earlier.  To which she responded how dare he, doesn't he know she has children.  It's been three weeks and we haven't heard anything from a single member of his family.  We are the demon spawn to them all apparently.  Even though not one of them lifted a single finger to help him when he needed it.  He pretty much told her to lose his number.


Karma works in wonderful ways.  You tried to help a relative (the right thing to do), now you've tossed them out of their home (OMG so very much the right thing to do) and your karmic reward is you don't have to put up with the rest of DH's worthless relatives.


Yeah you and yeah karma!

frugalmom

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Talked to a guy at work today.

He was 68.  Wife was 65.  Both Medicare eligible.  Worked the past 45 years for a good company.  Said he's got a nice stash of money more than 2 million.

Due to wife's medical and RX costs--and covered meds under Medicare he's trying to work 2 more years. 

Sad part--looking at her meds and the costs its the smart move.

MishMash

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I, for one, would like an expansion on the "lost my ever-loving shit on him" gloss-over.

Nice job!

I screamed at him that it's MY house, not his, so anything that goes on under MY roof is "my place" and how dare he insult us in our own home after we have footed 15k in debt repayment for him PLUS every. single. one. of his living expenses for the past year without so much as a thank you.  Pointed out that when he was literally living in his own feces and his dogs, not one of the siblings stepped up to do anything because none of them want anything to do with him that they "love him" because he's their dad but they don't like him as a person.  DH was the only one that stepped up and that was out of a sense of obligation not love (DH literally said if he would trade his dad to have mine back any day of the week) and that I told DH before he moved in that this was a bad idea. 

He goes but I'm always in your corner DH.  To which I screamed "where the fuck have you been the past 11 years then, how many care packages have you mailed your son when deployed, how many times did you pick up the phone when he called, how many times have I had to call YOU and say, you need to call your son, he's been back from deployment for a week and has called you a dozen times, you need to pick up" 

Then I called him the laziest most selfish person I have ever known and rounded it out with, you know those "filthy liberals" and 'snowflakes' you bemoan?  Guess what, you are the biggest 'snowflake' I've ever met.  You're a Republican, aren't you supposed to be all about personal responsibility?  Instead you are what you love to hate.  Lazy. Selfish. Narcissistic. Sexist. and up to your eyeballs in debt. 

DH had to go on anti depressants this year, in large part because his fathers inability to do ANYTHING, even make phone calls, really started to get to him.  I've noticed a marked uptick in his mental health since the sloth moved out. 

Exflyboy

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I am so glad you got this dealt with MishMash..

Personally there is NFW I would allow any of my in laws to live in my house but then I understand that sometimes you have to try these things in order to satisfy the spouse that you have at least made an effort.

The problem of course is that your house is more than just a box that you live in.. Its your sanctuary, its where you unwind, relax and shut out the cares of the world. Inviting somebody to stay inside the walls of your refuge is stressful even when they are normal well adjusted people. When they are self entitled scum its 100 times worse!

Why did you guys let this go on for so long? This idiot should have been moved out after a couple of warnings, which sounds like should have come within the first week or so.

Bottom line though, I'm glad he's gone, now you can recover from this stressful ordeal.

Slow&Steady

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The people I'm sorry for don't deserve their bad luck. This is the story of a woman I knew.

When I was younger, I knew a young woman whose mother was diagnosed with MS while my friend was at university. The mother went downhill rapidly, and became wheelchair bound by the time my friend was 25. Needless to say, my friend did most of the care for her mother, and so had limited opportunity to have a job - let alone a career. So she became a "temp" and worked at all sorts of places except on the days she had to do things for her mother. Her care stopped the mother from needing to be admitted to a nursing home, but the mother needed to be strapped into the wheelchair, and wheeled everywhere (she couldn't move it herself).

When she was 35, she started to have problems with the feelings in her limbs. She was diagnosed, and had MS herself. She could no longer look after her mother, who went into a nursing home, and died shortly afterward. She, herself, was soon only able to walk with calipers. She still worked, when she could. It took a further 10 years for her to be wheelchair bound. She's now dead, but she could never retire. She never had any opportunity to earn much.

Just before she was diagnosed, she met a guy, and they fell in love, but his two children completely rejected her, so they reluctantly parted. It was the only time she ever had a boyfriend. She never had much of a job, so she always lived hand to mouth. She never had anyone to look after her, the way she had looked after her mother.

Talked to a guy at work today.

He was 68.  Wife was 65.  Both Medicare eligible.  Worked the past 45 years for a good company.  Said he's got a nice stash of money more than 2 million.

Due to wife's medical and RX costs--and covered meds under Medicare he's trying to work 2 more years. 

Sad part--looking at her meds and the costs its the smart move.

I have no desire to "win" this thread but these 2 combined could potentially mean that I don't retire (or retire early), even though I am a semi-MMMer. 

I have been putting money into a 401k since I was 21 (although not very much back then) and have always budgeted (although not on a true MMM level), but we also really enjoyed our 20s.  However, my otherwise healthy DH was diagnosed with MS one month after turning 30.  We will have an extremely healthy stash (market willing) by the time the kids are done with high school (my desired retirement age), if DH remains healthy enough to keep working/not need extensive medical assistance, but I still might not be able to retire due to RX and other medical cost.  The current meds that he is on, claim that without insurance and other assistance programs would cost north of $8k/month.  I make just shy of a 6 figure salary (very new salary) and he is still working but combined we barely take home more than that.  If my projections are correct I will have a $3M stash by the time the kids graduate high school. I guess we could absorb that monthly RX cost but that would not leave us enough to also cover health insurance, other living expenses, and taxes.  Since we would need to generate enough "income" to cover those cost that we would not get subsided ACA (if it still exist) and have a decent tax bill (although I plan to utilize ROTH and after tax accounts too).  Depending on what happens with health care/RX cost I might have to give up my dream of retiring early (before DH is eligible for Medicare) or my dream of extensive traveling while in retirement.

Roadrunner53

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Mishmash, just read about your adventures with FIL and WOW, just WOW! Don't know how you did a year with this creature! I give you credit for trying! I could never have lived with my in-laws. I am an only child and the Hub and I never had children so our home is a quiet sanctuary. I like my solitude with my Hub and dogs. I do not want anyone living with me. Just don't like sharing my space. I am so glad your creature moved out. What a ungrateful cling on. You are now free and think long and hard ever allowing anyone to live in your home again!

Secretly Saving

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A lot of stories about people in dire straits in their senior years seem to involve people who have difficulty rationally (and dispassionately)  evaluating situations.

YESS!! This is so true.

Sibley

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I have no desire to "win" this thread but these 2 combined could potentially mean that I don't retire (or retire early), even though I am a semi-MMMer. 

I have been putting money into a 401k since I was 21 (although not very much back then) and have always budgeted (although not on a true MMM level), but we also really enjoyed our 20s.  However, my otherwise healthy DH was diagnosed with MS one month after turning 30.  We will have an extremely healthy stash (market willing) by the time the kids are done with high school (my desired retirement age), if DH remains healthy enough to keep working/not need extensive medical assistance, but I still might not be able to retire due to RX and other medical cost.  The current meds that he is on, claim that without insurance and other assistance programs would cost north of $8k/month.  I make just shy of a 6 figure salary (very new salary) and he is still working but combined we barely take home more than that.  If my projections are correct I will have a $3M stash by the time the kids graduate high school. I guess we could absorb that monthly RX cost but that would not leave us enough to also cover health insurance, other living expenses, and taxes.  Since we would need to generate enough "income" to cover those cost that we would not get subsided ACA (if it still exist) and have a decent tax bill (although I plan to utilize ROTH and after tax accounts too).  Depending on what happens with health care/RX cost I might have to give up my dream of retiring early (before DH is eligible for Medicare) or my dream of extensive traveling while in retirement.

@MishMash , start researching government programs. I doubt it's as dire as you seem to be saying. For example, if you're on SSDI, I believe that makes you eligible for Medicare automatically. I also have heard that states have programs for disabled, so it's possible he could end up eligible for both Medicare and Medicaid due to disability. You're going to want to find a professional who specializes in disability (lawyer probably) to help navigate what he might be eligible for and how to set up your finances.

Slow&Steady

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I have no desire to "win" this thread but these 2 combined could potentially mean that I don't retire (or retire early), even though I am a semi-MMMer. 

I have been putting money into a 401k since I was 21 (although not very much back then) and have always budgeted (although not on a true MMM level), but we also really enjoyed our 20s.  However, my otherwise healthy DH was diagnosed with MS one month after turning 30.  We will have an extremely healthy stash (market willing) by the time the kids are done with high school (my desired retirement age), if DH remains healthy enough to keep working/not need extensive medical assistance, but I still might not be able to retire due to RX and other medical cost.  The current meds that he is on, claim that without insurance and other assistance programs would cost north of $8k/month.  I make just shy of a 6 figure salary (very new salary) and he is still working but combined we barely take home more than that.  If my projections are correct I will have a $3M stash by the time the kids graduate high school. I guess we could absorb that monthly RX cost but that would not leave us enough to also cover health insurance, other living expenses, and taxes.  Since we would need to generate enough "income" to cover those cost that we would not get subsided ACA (if it still exist) and have a decent tax bill (although I plan to utilize ROTH and after tax accounts too).  Depending on what happens with health care/RX cost I might have to give up my dream of retiring early (before DH is eligible for Medicare) or my dream of extensive traveling while in retirement.

@MishMash , start researching government programs. I doubt it's as dire as you seem to be saying. For example, if you're on SSDI, I believe that makes you eligible for Medicare automatically. I also have heard that states have programs for disabled, so it's possible he could end up eligible for both Medicare and Medicaid due to disability. You're going to want to find a professional who specializes in disability (lawyer probably) to help navigate what he might be eligible for and how to set up your finances.

I think you are talking to me.

You are correct, if he is no longer able to keep working there are a lot of programs to take advantage.  The "hope for the best" part of me hopes that when we hit the point that I am ready to retire he is still healthy enough to not be considered disabled.  Since the meds are specifically designed to delay the decline of a patient's health and he is responding well to them, it is possible that he will not be disabled (not really any programs then) by the time I am ready to FIRE but still require the RX and all the monitoring.  Almost all the drug companies currently offer assistance programs so if things stay the way they are it really isn't as dire but what are the chances of the healthcare industry staying the way they are until he qualifies for medicare (30 years from now)?

Sibley

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I have no desire to "win" this thread but these 2 combined could potentially mean that I don't retire (or retire early), even though I am a semi-MMMer. 

I have been putting money into a 401k since I was 21 (although not very much back then) and have always budgeted (although not on a true MMM level), but we also really enjoyed our 20s.  However, my otherwise healthy DH was diagnosed with MS one month after turning 30.  We will have an extremely healthy stash (market willing) by the time the kids are done with high school (my desired retirement age), if DH remains healthy enough to keep working/not need extensive medical assistance, but I still might not be able to retire due to RX and other medical cost.  The current meds that he is on, claim that without insurance and other assistance programs would cost north of $8k/month.  I make just shy of a 6 figure salary (very new salary) and he is still working but combined we barely take home more than that.  If my projections are correct I will have a $3M stash by the time the kids graduate high school. I guess we could absorb that monthly RX cost but that would not leave us enough to also cover health insurance, other living expenses, and taxes.  Since we would need to generate enough "income" to cover those cost that we would not get subsided ACA (if it still exist) and have a decent tax bill (although I plan to utilize ROTH and after tax accounts too).  Depending on what happens with health care/RX cost I might have to give up my dream of retiring early (before DH is eligible for Medicare) or my dream of extensive traveling while in retirement.

@MishMash , start researching government programs. I doubt it's as dire as you seem to be saying. For example, if you're on SSDI, I believe that makes you eligible for Medicare automatically. I also have heard that states have programs for disabled, so it's possible he could end up eligible for both Medicare and Medicaid due to disability. You're going to want to find a professional who specializes in disability (lawyer probably) to help navigate what he might be eligible for and how to set up your finances.

I think you are talking to me.

You are correct, if he is no longer able to keep working there are a lot of programs to take advantage.  The "hope for the best" part of me hopes that when we hit the point that I am ready to retire he is still healthy enough to not be considered disabled.  Since the meds are specifically designed to delay the decline of a patient's health and he is responding well to them, it is possible that he will not be disabled (not really any programs then) by the time I am ready to FIRE but still require the RX and all the monitoring.  Almost all the drug companies currently offer assistance programs so if things stay the way they are it really isn't as dire but what are the chances of the healthcare industry staying the way they are until he qualifies for medicare (30 years from now)?

You are right, I mixed up people. Brain in too many places.

Hope for the best - plan for the worst. Make sure you're planning in case the meds aren't enough and he declines. You don't want to find out last minute that the way you structured things is causing problems.

BTDretire

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 This is not a sorry situation, just that maybe I dodged one.
 I'm the white boy that married into an Asian family.
We had saved well and bought our first home. About a year in,
my wifes older sister (14 years older) ask if her son and new wife could move in with us.
 I looked at is as a way to cut costs, and started calculating some rent,
the cost of food, additional gas and electricity. I came up with $400 as
a reasonable amount for them to pay per month.

 They never mover in, I guess they thought it should cost me
 for them to live with me and not cost them.

  Also over the years, I have convinced my wife, life is so much easier
when they are mad at us, than for us to be mad at them.
 When they are mad at us, they don't ask for things, and don't cost us any time.

Slow&Steady

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... You don't want to find out last minute that the way you structured things is causing problems.

Great point!  I keep telling myself that we don't need to talk to a disability lawyer until his health starts to decline, this is a great reason to talk to one sooner. Thank you.

talltexan

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This is not a sorry situation, just that maybe I dodged one.
 I'm the white boy that married into an Asian family.
We had saved well and bought our first home. About a year in,
my wifes older sister (14 years older) ask if her son and new wife could move in with us.
 I looked at is as a way to cut costs, and started calculating some rent,
the cost of food, additional gas and electricity. I came up with $400 as
a reasonable amount for them to pay per month.

 They never mover in, I guess they thought it should cost me
 for them to live with me and not cost them.

  Also over the years, I have convinced my wife, life is so much easier
when they are mad at us, than for us to be mad at them.
 When they are mad at us, they don't ask for things, and don't cost us any time.

This sounds like one of those cultural situations that come up all the time when you marry into family with a different background. I--personally--would be horrified to realize that my presence in someone's home was costing them $5,000 a year, and they had no way to be made whole from that.

Roadrunner53

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This is not a sorry situation, just that maybe I dodged one.
 I'm the white boy that married into an Asian family.
We had saved well and bought our first home. About a year in,
my wifes older sister (14 years older) ask if her son and new wife could move in with us.
 I looked at is as a way to cut costs, and started calculating some rent,
the cost of food, additional gas and electricity. I came up with $400 as
a reasonable amount for them to pay per month.

 They never mover in, I guess they thought it should cost me
 for them to live with me and not cost them.

  Also over the years, I have convinced my wife, life is so much easier
when they are mad at us, than for us to be mad at them.
 When they are mad at us, they don't ask for things, and don't cost us any time.

$400 a month! I would have jumped on that and never would leave!

LouLou

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... You don't want to find out last minute that the way you structured things is causing problems.

Great point!  I keep telling myself that we don't need to talk to a disability lawyer until his health starts to decline, this is a great reason to talk to one sooner. Thank you.

Also, find out what municipal and state agencies deal with disabilities in your area and meet with them. A support group would also have many ordinary people who have navigated what you will need to navigate. The more information the better! Best wishes.

marty998

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This is not a sorry situation, just that maybe I dodged one.
 I'm the white boy that married into an Asian family.
We had saved well and bought our first home. About a year in,
my wifes older sister (14 years older) ask if her son and new wife could move in with us.
 I looked at is as a way to cut costs, and started calculating some rent,
the cost of food, additional gas and electricity. I came up with $400 as
a reasonable amount for them to pay per month.

 They never mover in, I guess they thought it should cost me
 for them to live with me and not cost them.

  Also over the years, I have convinced my wife, life is so much easier
when they are mad at us, than for us to be mad at them.
 When they are mad at us, they don't ask for things, and don't cost us any time.

$400 a month! I would have jumped on that and never would leave!

It does sound like a good deal. But if they are the sort of couple that can't afford $5000 a year for rent then you may have avoided bigger problems.

anonymouscow

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My dad was still working full time at 73, house not paid off, no savings. Only stopped working due to serious illness.

It really makes me question whether it's all really worth it. Maybe instead of working everyday for the next 30 years, I should try to work as little as possible and try to enjoy life while I am still healthy.

solon

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My dad was still working full time at 73, house not paid off, no savings. Only stopped working due to serious illness.

It really makes me question whether it's all really worth it. Maybe instead of working everyday for the next 30 years, I should try to work as little as possible and try to enjoy life while I am still healthy.

Welcome to MMM! I would say this is THE central issue Mustachianism is concerned with.

cloudsail

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I knew a man who had no education beyond  high school.

He worked at different blue-collar jobs until he was about 40 at which time his mother died.


When her estate was settled he inherited her home in California's Silicon Valley.

He sold the home for $1.4 million.

Within ~ 2 years of the sale  he spent all of the $1.4 million.

He cannot retire because has no  $ saved and his only source of retirement $ will be Social Security retirement benefits.

The last I heard of him he was working at a trash recycling facility sorting incoming trash on a conveyor belt.

I cannot think of sorrier tale of a wasted, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to FIRE.

DING, DING!  WE HAVE A WINNER!

I agree...just WOW!

This is like the classic lottery winner story. I've always been curious how exactly you blow over a million dollar in a couple years. I don't think I could spend that much money if I tried.

talltexan

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Investing it into the small business ideas of predatory friends?

NoVa

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Investing it into the small business ideas of predatory friends?

And they don't even have to be truly predatory, just enthusiastic and inexperienced.

BTDretire

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This is not a sorry situation, just that maybe I dodged one.
 I'm the white boy that married into an Asian family.
We had saved well and bought our first home. About a year in,
my wifes older sister (14 years older) ask if her son and new wife could move in with us.
 I looked at is as a way to cut costs, and started calculating some rent,
the cost of food, additional gas and electricity. I came up with $400 as
a reasonable amount for them to pay per month.

 They never moved in, I guess they thought it should cost me
 for them to live with me and not cost them.

  Also over the years, I have convinced my wife, life is so much easier
when they are mad at us, than for us to be mad at them.
 When they are mad at us, they don't ask for things, and don't cost us any time.

$400 a month! I would have jumped on that and never would leave!

 It was many, many years ago.

sixwings

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Investing it into the small business ideas of predatory friends?

And they don't even have to be truly predatory, just enthusiastic and inexperienced.

Pro athletes go broke all the time after retirement. NFL athletes seem to get the worst of it and this is a big reason for it. Interesting read.

https://www.si.com/vault/2009/03/23/105789480/how-and-why-athletes-go-broke

SwordGuy

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I knew a man who had no education beyond  high school.

He worked at different blue-collar jobs until he was about 40 at which time his mother died.


When her estate was settled he inherited her home in California's Silicon Valley.

He sold the home for $1.4 million.

Within ~ 2 years of the sale  he spent all of the $1.4 million.

He cannot retire because has no  $ saved and his only source of retirement $ will be Social Security retirement benefits.

The last I heard of him he was working at a trash recycling facility sorting incoming trash on a conveyor belt.

I cannot think of sorrier tale of a wasted, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to FIRE.

DING, DING!  WE HAVE A WINNER!

I agree...just WOW!

This is like the classic lottery winner story. I've always been curious how exactly you blow over a million dollar in a couple years. I don't think I could spend that much money if I tried.

A really nice couple who lived across the road from my parents won $10,000,000 in a casino on a slot machine.   I had met these folks a few times before this happened.  They would have been in their 40s.


They owned a small septic tank business that had been struggling a bit.  They paid off all the debts.  Then they gave their son and daughter a sizeable chunk of cash and gave the son their business.   Their son already had a paid off house he had largely built himself.


They retired.

The son hired his buddies at inflated wages, didn't pay attention to the business, raided the till for cash (because he was spending it so fast).  He went broke.  Lost everything, including his previously paid for house.


The mom got all hoighty-toighty now that she was hob-nobbing with "high society".  (Such as it was.)  She divorced her husband.   Blew thru her money in a few years buying expensive stuff on credit, an expensive house on credit, and making bad business investments.  Lost everything.  Daughter bought her a modest home to live in but kept the title in daughter's name because mom still wasn't over being stupid.


The dad was heartbroken at what his wife did and started drinking.   Went out one winter night, came home drunk, passed out in the driveway, and died from exposure.   


The sister is the only one of the four who kept her head.


As Jim Rohn said, "If you have a million dollars, you better learn how to be a millionaire or you won't have it long."


Raymond Reddington

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I guess this one wouldn't be someone who couldn't retire, but it does fit the mold.

When I was in my 20s I worked with a guy in his late 20s. Solid, white collar worker, not great with money, but not incredibly stupid. Anyway, he had a friend that liked to gamble. The guy ends up on television (BTW, working a late night in the office, we are watching this guy on TV) in a poker tournament. $1000 buy in, no limit Texas Hold'Em, with something like 10,000 entrants. One of those tournaments that basically requires you to play in twelve hour shifts over more than 3 days, sleep optional.

The final day was televised.

My coworker's friend makes it to the final table, despite being pretty drunk. My coworker gets the OK to leave work early and race down to Atlantic City to catch the rest of the action. I give him my personal cabbie hookup, who is very fast and safe. He's in AC from Connecticut in 2 hours to watch his friend.

At work, the interest in it continues. I have the feed up in the background while I'm working, and I'm listening to the audio.
-At one point my coworker's friend is chip leader.
-Slowly, the other players go bust and collect their final table prize money. The amounts keep going up. Top prize is close to a million dollars.
-It's down to 3 players left.
-It's down to 2. He is still chip leader. As the favorite in the hand, he puts the other guy all in and gets sucked out hard. The other guy lives to fight another day.
-Slowly, my coworker's friend starts going on tilt, chasing the scenario of putting the other guy all in again, making several bad bets in the process. He gives up his chip lead and becomes the underdog. His stack slowly whittles down until he is put all in as the underdog, and he finishes 2nd.
-He wins about $600,000.

After withholding, he winds up with under $400,000.

The next day, my coworker tells me:
-His friend owed various people $200,000 in gambling debts.
-He spent about $175,000 that night partying. Apparently, he bought everyone who was around and watching the poker tournament expensive mixed drinks, bought a very expensive bottle, and paid to do VIP something at some club down there. And of course he upgraded his hotel accommodations and extended his stay for one more night, which makes perfect sense, because who could sleep in a regular hotel after winning that much money?

So, basically, the guy won over a half million dollars, and literally the next morning walked away with less than $25,000.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 11:05:04 AM by Raymond Reddington »

cloudsail

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I knew a man who had no education beyond  high school.

He worked at different blue-collar jobs until he was about 40 at which time his mother died.


When her estate was settled he inherited her home in California's Silicon Valley.

He sold the home for $1.4 million.

Within ~ 2 years of the sale  he spent all of the $1.4 million.

He cannot retire because has no  $ saved and his only source of retirement $ will be Social Security retirement benefits.

The last I heard of him he was working at a trash recycling facility sorting incoming trash on a conveyor belt.

I cannot think of sorrier tale of a wasted, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to FIRE.

DING, DING!  WE HAVE A WINNER!

I agree...just WOW!

This is like the classic lottery winner story. I've always been curious how exactly you blow over a million dollar in a couple years. I don't think I could spend that much money if I tried.

A really nice couple who lived across the road from my parents won $10,000,000 in a casino on a slot machine.   I had met these folks a few times before this happened.  They would have been in their 40s.


They owned a small septic tank business that had been struggling a bit.  They paid off all the debts.  Then they gave their son and daughter a sizeable chunk of cash and gave the son their business.   Their son already had a paid off house he had largely built himself.


They retired.

The son hired his buddies at inflated wages, didn't pay attention to the business, raided the till for cash (because he was spending it so fast).  He went broke.  Lost everything, including his previously paid for house.


The mom got all hoighty-toighty now that she was hob-nobbing with "high society".  (Such as it was.)  She divorced her husband.   Blew thru her money in a few years buying expensive stuff on credit, an expensive house on credit, and making bad business investments.  Lost everything.  Daughter bought her a modest home to live in but kept the title in daughter's name because mom still wasn't over being stupid.


The dad was heartbroken at what his wife did and started drinking.   Went out one winter night, came home drunk, passed out in the driveway, and died from exposure.   


The sister is the only one of the four who kept her head.


As Jim Rohn said, "If you have a million dollars, you better learn how to be a millionaire or you won't have it long."

Wow, that is just.... I don't even have the words. Wow.

That is beyond sad.

marion10

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Re: What's the sorriest situation you've known of someone who couldn't retire?
« Reply #142 on: December 27, 2018, 01:42:49 PM »
My girlfriend is 73, divorced and comfortable. I'm not sure how old her boyfriend is- maybe 75? He has almost no savings, gets Social Security and is trying to scrounge up work. He got a job shuttling cars at an airport parking place, but it is proving too much for him.  He is living with my friend who is in a constant battle to keep his clutter out of her place. I hope she wins. Where was he living before? Well has a ramshackle house full of his stuff, his parents stuff and his deceased sister's stuff. But he can't afford to maintain it- so he is deliberately deferring maintenance and has disconnected the furnace so that he can have it declared uninhabitable and then get a refund on his property taxes and fix it up then and then try to sell it.

talltexan

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Re: What's the sorriest situation you've known of someone who couldn't retire?
« Reply #143 on: December 27, 2018, 02:15:51 PM »
It seems typical to me that many people spend the entirety of their retirement going from one doctor to another.

Roadrunner53

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Re: What's the sorriest situation you've known of someone who couldn't retire?
« Reply #144 on: December 27, 2018, 02:56:28 PM »
I do not understand how people can blow thru tons of money that is so hard to come by. My inlaws were stupid with money and had these expensive hobbies but could not pay the electric bill or oil to heat the house. How stupid! When you inherit or win money or get a job in sports that pays mega bucks, what is so hard to figure out that a giant chunk of that money has to be put away in a safe place and not touched. That a portion of the money is set aside to spend on a home, not a mansion and not a zillion expensive cars and jewelry and lions, tigers and bears!

Cassie

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Re: What's the sorriest situation you've known of someone who couldn't retire?
« Reply #145 on: December 27, 2018, 03:26:18 PM »
At 64 I can say not one generation in my family spent their retirement going to the doctor. We have some friends 10 years older that upgraded to 3000sqft when they inherited money. Their other house was nice but smaller. They have no kids and donít entertain and have to keep working. Just stupid.

Roadrunner53

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Re: What's the sorriest situation you've known of someone who couldn't retire?
« Reply #146 on: December 27, 2018, 03:53:29 PM »
Why don't people get the theory of 'pay yourself first'? Put money away for a rainy day.

My Father screwed up big time. He had a fantastic federal job but after 9 years he threw in the towel. Parents and me as a baby lived in Manhattan. He decided to get another job in CT where we moved but it was short lived. Then he dabbled in real estate. Seems every time he got in, the market tanked. My poor Mom worked in a factory and she was basically the breadwinner which is STUPID considering he made mega money in the federal government. He flopped around in other stupid jobs till he finally got his act together and got a State job and finished out his working career there. He and my Mom were finally able to save money for retirement. It was so totally ridiculous him being an educated man, working for the federal government at a fantastic job that paid big bucks to sink so low. He just didn't want to work for 'the man' anymore. Well, that didn't work out. It still makes me mad what he put my Mom thru when he could have gotten a real job making real money.

pecunia

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Re: What's the sorriest situation you've known of someone who couldn't retire?
« Reply #147 on: December 28, 2018, 07:52:22 AM »
I do not understand how people can blow thru tons of money that is so hard to come by. My inlaws were stupid with money and had these expensive hobbies but could not pay the electric bill or oil to heat the house. How stupid! When you inherit or win money or get a job in sports that pays mega bucks, what is so hard to figure out that a giant chunk of that money has to be put away in a safe place and not touched. That a portion of the money is set aside to spend on a home, not a mansion and not a zillion expensive cars and jewelry and lions, tigers and bears!

Could it have to do with one's sense of time?  My father was not good with money and yet he enjoyed life.  I picked up my money values from my mother.  My mother took care of the money and was a worrier.  If my father had money, he had no compunction about spending it.  It was a bit like Yin and Yang.  My mom thought about the future and the past.  My dad would never want to look at family pictures and reminisce.  My dad would say the future would take care of itself.  My dad lived in the present.

People who live in the now do not concern themselves with the future "if."  My dad enjoyed himself better than my worrying mother.  He never had much and it never bothered him.  He just made do with what he had and was satisfied.  He did not regret his mistakes.  He just moved on.  I feel a sense of jealousy for such people.  They are the ones who can take a windfall and buy a nice truck with no worries about fuel mileage, etc.  They just go.  People like these people who are free.

These people are not stupid, but see life in a different way.

I work with some guys who have nice vehicles, homes, etc.  Times are good and they are making good money,......right now.  They are enjoying themselves right now.  They are happy right now.  One told me when he wants something he'll get it.  He doesn't care what it costs.

I have been saving and living somewhat frugally for many years to buy myself a perceived freedom.  However, freedom exists in the mind.  Folks like my dad are already free and I suspect they are happier now than I will be when I reach my goal.

Roadrunner53

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Re: What's the sorriest situation you've known of someone who couldn't retire?
« Reply #148 on: December 28, 2018, 08:34:37 AM »
I do not understand how people can blow thru tons of money that is so hard to come by. My inlaws were stupid with money and had these expensive hobbies but could not pay the electric bill or oil to heat the house. How stupid! When you inherit or win money or get a job in sports that pays mega bucks, what is so hard to figure out that a giant chunk of that money has to be put away in a safe place and not touched. That a portion of the money is set aside to spend on a home, not a mansion and not a zillion expensive cars and jewelry and lions, tigers and bears!

Could it have to do with one's sense of time?  My father was not good with money and yet he enjoyed life.  I picked up my money values from my mother.  My mother took care of the money and was a worrier.  If my father had money, he had no compunction about spending it.  It was a bit like Yin and Yang.  My mom thought about the future and the past.  My dad would never want to look at family pictures and reminisce.  My dad would say the future would take care of itself.  My dad lived in the present.


People who live in the now do not concern themselves with the future "if."  My dad enjoyed himself better than my worrying mother.  He never had much and it never bothered him.  He just made do with what he had and was satisfied.  He did not regret his mistakes.  He just moved on.  I feel a sense of jealousy for such people.  They are the ones who can take a windfall and buy a nice truck with no worries about fuel mileage, etc.  They just go.  People like these people who are free.

These people are not stupid, but see life in a different way.

I work with some guys who have nice vehicles, homes, etc.  Times are good and they are making good money,......right now.  They are enjoying themselves right now.  They are happy right now.  One told me when he wants something he'll get it.  He doesn't care what it costs.

I have been saving and living somewhat frugally for many years to buy myself a perceived freedom.  However, freedom exists in the mind.  Folks like my dad are already free and I suspect they are happier now than I will be when I reach my goal.

Don't agree with all you have to say but it is your opinion to have. It is stupid to not have a happy medium. Like paying your bills so you have heat and electricity. Buying a modest home  you can afford. Buying modest cars. I also don't want to live in a tent or shower with cold water to save money or dig my food out of a dumpster either. I want the best of both worlds. Have money in the bank and be able to buy some nice things that are in my price range. I will use my head and buy something like a Toyota car and not a Lamborghini, I will buy a home that I can afford, not a million dollar mansion. I can sleep at night because I have a paid for life and money in the bank. Not going thru bankruptcies and cars getting repossessed. Also, such a reckless pattern of spending filters down to the children who see this behavior as normal and then the cycle of foolish spending begins again for the next generation.

A company in my town manufactures a variety of popular products. This place operates 24 hours a day. For years it has been the best paying place to work if you don't have more than a HS education. Some people working lots of OT in production were making $100,000 a year in this one particular department. Some were married and the spouse made the same or maybe a little less. These people had everything under the sun. Giant speed boats, Giant SUV's and pick up trucks. They owned million dollar homes with pools, vacation homes. Went on lots of vacations. Houses filled with every gadget known to man. Well, one day after the midnight shift was done they shuffled those people and the first shift people into conference rooms and told them their jobs were done. They were moving production to another state. They all lost their jobs without any warning at all. It was shell shock and there are no jobs in this area that pay production people that kind of money. So, if they had lived a more sensible, modest life, they would have had tons of money in the bank, paid off modest cars and maybe a paid off modest home too.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: What's the sorriest situation you've known of someone who couldn't retire?
« Reply #149 on: December 28, 2018, 10:11:48 AM »
I do not understand how people can blow thru tons of money that is so hard to come by.

With lottery winners and pro athletes part of it is thinking it's so much money it could never all be spent.  'Set for life', not knowing you have to set yourself up for life, because no one told them.

The other piece, and I forget which book I read this in, I think Debt is Slavery, talks about the difference between income-producing assets and income-consuming assets.  Lottery winners tend to buy a lot of income-consuming assets (more fun) and not enough income-producing (boring), until the productive assets can no longer keep up with the assets that are consuming all the income.  Again, because no one told them, or they tried to tell them but, 'so much money I couldn't possibly spend it all, stop worrying'.

The concept of income producing vs consuming assets changed the way I looked at what I do with my money.  I'd never heard it before, at least not laid out so plainly, and I wasn't a newb to personal finance when I came across it.  What hope to people with zero experience and education with money have?