The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: helloyou on July 21, 2020, 06:22:33 AM
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I've never felt good enough for my job and always had this fear to be jobless and not able to keep doing it. And the atmosphere wasn't really great at work either.
So while I had a good job with good pay, I've realised that 2 things were incredibly costly:
- Cost of having your own flat easily take a large % your pay at £1500/month in London
- Cost of transport is also very high at £120/month
So I lived in a guardianship house with load of people costing me £350/month (I still had my own room but it was busy) and cycled to work. My expenses were very low indeed after doing that.
However I could never really tell my colleagues where I was living because I knew they would be shocked. I try to ignore the subject when I can or just say I'm far away. Sometime when they insist I just say I'm in a flatshare but never told them how many people were living there lol
Now that I have more security in term of finance I don't think I'll do it again. But it really kept cost down!
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For those of us unfamiliar with a guardianship house, could you explain what that is?
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Well, first, google impostor syndrome.
It sounds like you live in something like a group house/boarding house type thing? FYI - being so evasive about the topic of where you live is going to be far worse in the long run than just having an answer for the question and giving it matter of factly.
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Until I was 30, I lived in an apartment complex that catered to college students and rented out apartments by the room. It was actually kind of fun as I got along with my roommates rather well. The rent was ridiculous at $290 a month with my share of the utilities running $20 a month.
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For those of us unfamiliar with a guardianship house, could you explain what that is?
It's living in a vacant commercial building that needs to be protected from squat until it finds its purpose (be demolished and rebuilt into something else). People lived in office space / bankrupt care home / prison / etc.
Example here in an old clinic:
https://www.global-guardians.co.uk/guardian/property/1158/the-margaret-mcmillan-field-study-centre-wrotham-kent-tn15-7jn
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Interesting. I've never heard of that. Pretty cool.
Still, come up with a reasonable sounding answer to "where do you live" and give it. Stop with the weirdness. Example: I live in a shared flat kinda near the shopping center. Sounds very normal, answers the question, doesn't get into the unusual nature of your living accommodations.
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At one point I was getting free pizzas from little cesars at 11pm when they threw out the extras each night. Same with the bagel shop - trash bags of perfectly fine bagels. Hit the food pantry once a week. Stole pre-made 2’ long subs from the grocery pretty regularly, and would go to the church for a free meal once a week. Also got on food stamps for a while.
Was living in my car / camping during that time period for several months. Couch surfing / trading work for housing other times.
Just your typical broke college student - too proud to ask for help from my family, who is also broke.
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For those of us unfamiliar with a guardianship house, could you explain what that is?
It's living in a vacant commercial building that needs to be protected from squat until it finds its purpose (be demolished and rebuilt into something else). People lived in office space / bankrupt care home / prison / etc.
Example here in an old clinic:
https://www.global-guardians.co.uk/guardian/property/1158/the-margaret-mcmillan-field-study-centre-wrotham-kent-tn15-7jn
That's so cool!
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Probably the thing I've done that's garnered the most outrage (seriously, people really get upset about it) was getting my tubes tied when I was 21.Though it was more due to child-hating than cost-cutting, it's saved me a fortune on birth control.
Another notable one would be living in a small studio apartment with my partner and cat. Apparently the very idea is an affront to most normal people's sensibility. Like, it's actually not hard at all if you like each other and aren't hoarders. And I spend a hell of a lot less time doing housework than most people, in addition to the financial savings.
People used to really care that neither of us has a drivers license and/or car. That's kind of died down now that we're in our 30s, and shockingly haven't had any of those supposed emergencies that require cars or a drivers license. Everyone used to swear that was a thing, though it always seemed like bullshit to me.
Those are three that come to mind off the top of my head. There are probably so many more. I'm not very socially acceptable.
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Depends on which social network, but some people are outraged that I'm on Medicaid in an expansion state, and some people are outraged that I used to get free food from a program without income verification. (I also volunteered at similar orgs, passed on extras when my neighbors couldn't make it, and always saw extras left behind, but for some people that's not good enough.)
Mostly internet outrage, though. I don't exactly advertise my health insurance situation with casual acquaintances. I do tell many people about the food program, so I guess Medicaid is the less acceptable one.
Nobody has cared that I've lived with roommates or took public transit. Normal where I lived.
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Probably the thing I've done that's garnered the most outrage (seriously, people really get upset about it) was getting my tubes tied when I was 21.Though it was more due to child-hating than cost-cutting, it's saved me a fortune on birth control.
Using the term, "child-hating," probably doesn't help quell that outrage. That's like saying you hate puppies or kittens.
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Probably the thing I've done that's garnered the most outrage (seriously, people really get upset about it) was getting my tubes tied when I was 21.Though it was more due to child-hating than cost-cutting, it's saved me a fortune on birth control.
Using the term, "child-hating," probably doesn't help quell that outrage. That's like saying you hate puppies or kittens.
Surprisingly, in my experience that's not the case. The people who get outraged do so without asking further questions, so they have no idea if I did it to save money, because I hate kids, have a medical condition, or any other reason. The people who don't get offended/outraged from the start seem to continue to not get offended/outraged after I tell them my reasons.
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Driving ancient cars daily - either high mileage or high years. People hear that I needed a repair and they react with recommendations that I replace the whole car with something newer that comes with a payment.
Seriously folks - some thing just wore out. why would I replace a whole car b/c the starter wore out? A starter is $50 and 30 minutes to replace in the driveway.
My cost to maintain older cars has been tiny spread over a year's time. Especially if the car was made for a while and there were hundreds of thousands of them built. That means the junkyards likely have a few too.
It also helps that we have an easy ten minute drive to town. These cars aren't raking up alot of miles. I do keep them maintained so they are not gross polluters even though we don't have pollution inspections here.
Also bicycles and scooters. Some folks just shake their head here that anyone would use a scooter or bicycle as a commuter vehicle. What - don't you have any money? Did you get a DUI? Why don't you sign up for a six year loan and buy something really shiny and expensive?
Well, the bicycle helps me get exercise plus I like to ride a bike. A scooter is dead cheap to buy and operate. Pick the right ones and there are tens of millions of them around the world and an endless supply of spare parts and YT video tutorials on how to repair anything on it. Its as close to a forever tool as you'll find. Just keep the rust away.
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E-biking everywhere for all of my errands and commuting. I think it's great, and far superior to driving; I'd do it even if it didn't save money. I miss it terribly right now.
Some of the other measures I probably would've taken through the years were nixed by the wife.
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Another one that some people don't like is that we avoid restaurants mostly and alcohol/coffee entirely. Again, not for financial reasons, though it saves us a fortune.
"But you have to treat yourself!"
"Doing something I dislike isn't a treat!"
"Stop depriving yourself of coffee/alcohol, that's horrible!"
"I would puke my guts out on the spot from even a sip of that foul drink!"
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Selling tradelines is probably not socially acceptable in the view of many people. But that is more of a side hustle and not a way to cut expenses.
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Probably getting furniture from [next to] the dumpster. People toss things for the most minute of flaws. Just this weekend my partner snagged and cleaned out a $200 vacuum cleaner that works just fine.
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Probably getting furniture from [next to] the dumpster. People toss things for the most minute of flaws. Just this weekend my partner snagged and cleaned out a $200 vacuum cleaner that works just fine.
That's how I got my current vacuum cleaner. It's a Dyson and I've had it almost decade. It still works well, although the canister has to be held in a certain way when removed due to plastic parts breaking. Not bad for something taken out of the trash.
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Stopped shaving almost a decade ago. It was a pain in the ass, razors cost a ton and I hated tossing them afterward, and I just didn't really see the point-- most dudes don't shave their legs, why are women expected to? Did pick up an epilator for the odd fancy event and I use it maybe three times a year to great effect.
It's fucking great! I've probably saved hundreds in disposable razor costs, and really no one cares. The only instance I can think of anyone commenting is some random asshole telling me it was 'unhygienic' for women not to shave their armpits. Only for women, mind you. :')
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Probably the thing I've done that's garnered the most outrage (seriously, people really get upset about it) was getting my tubes tied when I was 21.Though it was more due to child-hating than cost-cutting, it's saved me a fortune on birth control.
Another notable one would be living in a small studio apartment with my partner and cat. Apparently the very idea is an affront to most normal people's sensibility. Like, it's actually not hard at all if you like each other and aren't hoarders. And I spend a hell of a lot less time doing housework than most people, in addition to the financial savings.
People used to really care that neither of us has a drivers license and/or car. That's kind of died down now that we're in our 30s, and shockingly haven't had any of those supposed emergencies that require cars or a drivers license. Everyone used to swear that was a thing, though it always seemed like bullshit to me.
Those are three that come to mind off the top of my head. There are probably so many more. I'm not very socially acceptable.
Couple in a small studio in super common in london. Even couple in ensuite. The pb is finding landlord accepting pets
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Probably the thing I've done that's garnered the most outrage (seriously, people really get upset about it) was getting my tubes tied when I was 21.Though it was more due to child-hating than cost-cutting, it's saved me a fortune on birth control.
Using the term, "child-hating," probably doesn't help quell that outrage. That's like saying you hate puppies or kittens.
Surprisingly, in my experience that's not the case. The people who get outraged do so without asking further questions, so they have no idea if I did it to save money, because I hate kids, have a medical condition, or any other reason. The people who don't get offended/outraged from the start seem to continue to not get offended/outraged after I tell them my reasons.
I know someone (USA) that was told a flat no from her doctor about getting her tubes tied. She was 29 at the time. "Child-hating" would be her reason too.
Personally, I was snipped at 26 despite getting every question wrong at the urologist. (How many kids do you have? Are you married? How old are you? Zero, no, 26.) 3 years later and I can't believe I didn't do it sooner.
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Probably the thing I've done that's garnered the most outrage (seriously, people really get upset about it) was getting my tubes tied when I was 21.Though it was more due to child-hating than cost-cutting, it's saved me a fortune on birth control.
Using the term, "child-hating," probably doesn't help quell that outrage. That's like saying you hate puppies or kittens.
Surprisingly, in my experience that's not the case. The people who get outraged do so without asking further questions, so they have no idea if I did it to save money, because I hate kids, have a medical condition, or any other reason. The people who don't get offended/outraged from the start seem to continue to not get offended/outraged after I tell them my reasons.
I know someone (USA) that was told a flat no from her doctor about getting her tubes tied. She was 29 at the time. "Child-hating" would be her reason too.
Personally, I was snipped at 26 despite getting every question wrong at the urologist. (How many kids do you have? Are you married? How old are you? Zero, no, 26.) 3 years later and I can't believe I didn't do it sooner.
Wow, 29 is getting pretty old to have to deal with that bullshit. Doctors are weird. I was already feeling too old to deal with that bullshit at 21 when I finally had mine done after trying for four years. I was at the point of strategizing like I was going into battle. One doctor seemed to like points X and Y, but then point Z sank me, avoid saying Z. These demographics of medical workers seem to be more willing to help, let's try to find more people who tick those boxes. Can I strategically lie to the front liners in a way that will get me to the next level up without harming my case. My final attempt was a damn work of art, and it worked - and the surgeon got a kick out of my strategy when I fessed up.
It does seem to have gotten easier since then. I have two younger cousins who also got sterilized fairly young, along with a few acquaintances.
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Apparently, hanging my clothes to dry (as opposed to using a dryer) is not socially acceptable. I mentioned it in passing in a conversation at work once, and got a much stronger reaction than I expected. The conversation stopped in its tracks, I got some weird looks, and after an awkward silence, one guy even told me that it's impossible in Florida "because it's too humid."
Because clothes last forever when you don't use dryers, I have another socially-unacceptable habit: wearing shirts in public that my parents bought me in high school (I'm 30). They still fit and Less Than Jake is still a good band.
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Apparently, hanging my clothes to dry (as opposed to using a dryer) is not socially acceptable. I mentioned it in passing in a conversation at work once, and got a much stronger reaction than I expected. The conversation stopped in its tracks, I got some weird looks, and after an awkward silence, one guy even told me that it's impossible in Florida "because it's too humid."
Because clothes last forever when you don't use dryers, I have another socially-unacceptable habit: wearing shirts in public that my parents bought me in high school (I'm 30). They still fit and Less Than Jake is still a good band.
Oh, I can beat that, easily.
Around age 45, I finally ditched one of my 'holiday blouses'... the kind that is simple and pretty, but a little old-fashioned because of the lace accents...long-sleeved cream-colored silk with fitted-lace half-sleeves and a lace collar that knotted. I think my Mom bought it for me when I was 12 or thereabouts. I wore it on and off that entire span of 30 + years.
I still have several clothes from my early college years that are perfectly wearable... A couple years ago (my late 40s) I finally had to get rid of a classic charcoal-colored pencil skirt that buttoned all the way up to the hip...simply b/c that waistband was absolutely 24 inches with no damn give in it, and as it turns out my late 40s waistline is not apparently going to go below 25 inches again, even if I'm at college weight and sporting 6 pack abs. It's baffling and irritating...but I eventually had to bow to reality. :sniffle: I miss you, classy skirt!
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For those of us unfamiliar with a guardianship house, could you explain what that is?
It's living in a vacant commercial building that needs to be protected from squat until it finds its purpose (be demolished and rebuilt into something else). People lived in office space / bankrupt care home / prison / etc.
Example here in an old clinic:
https://www.global-guardians.co.uk/guardian/property/1158/the-margaret-mcmillan-field-study-centre-wrotham-kent-tn15-7jn
I had no idea. I'm super excited about this option.
I'll add one: living in my mom's attic for years after I was a white collar professional.
EDITed to add - I happen to know that selling plasma is socially unacceptable, but I have enough taxable income and I don't love needles.
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For those of us unfamiliar with a guardianship house, could you explain what that is?
It's living in a vacant commercial building that needs to be protected from squat until it finds its purpose (be demolished and rebuilt into something else). People lived in office space / bankrupt care home / prison / etc.
Example here in an old clinic:
https://www.global-guardians.co.uk/guardian/property/1158/the-margaret-mcmillan-field-study-centre-wrotham-kent-tn15-7jn
I had no idea. I'm super excited about this option.
I'll add one: living in my mom's attic for years after I was a white collar professional.
EDITed to add - I happen to know that selling plasma is socially unacceptable, but I have enough taxable income and I don't love needles.
I've donated blood before, but have never sold plasma. Why is that socially unacceptable?
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I used to get alot of disdain for riding my bike to work in all weather and hours of the day and night. My coworkers often insisted that they drive me home because it was snowing or raining. The younger crowd i work with now are more understanding. I know if I was a guy my coworkers would have felt differently.
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my TV broke and I didn't replace it for about 9 months. 9 months of pretty much daily hectoring and shocked outrage that I didn't have one. It was kinda weird to be honest. Got even more outrage when I bought a 32" on for £50 second hand. Apparently its "tiny". Sigh.
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my TV broke and I didn't replace it for about 9 months. 9 months of pretty much daily hectoring and shocked outrage that I didn't have one. It was kinda weird to be honest. Got even more outrage when I bought a 32" on for £50 second hand. Apparently its "tiny". Sigh.
I love when my family comes to visit and if they want to watch TV they have to do it on our enormous 32" TV. They have a 65" and have a smaller living room than we do so they usually just give up and turn it off. Makes me happy as I would rather have conversations with them when they are visiting from out of town and not just be together in a room watching TV.
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my TV broke and I didn't replace it for about 9 months. 9 months of pretty much daily hectoring and shocked outrage that I didn't have one. It was kinda weird to be honest. Got even more outrage when I bought a 32" on for £50 second hand. Apparently its "tiny". Sigh.
People get really weird about TVs. Back when my GF and I lived with roommates, the house TV was purchased by one of the roommates, so when we moved out that stayed with them. We didn't buy a TV of our own for about 18 months. In the meantime, if we watched anything, it was on our 24" computer monitor. Apparently that's a crime.
And when we finally bought our TV, it was "only" a 43" 1080p (in early 2017), also apparently a crime. As far as I'm concerned, it's pretty close to the biggest TV that works without having an entire house designed around how giant the TV is.
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I've donated blood before, but have never sold plasma. Why is that socially unacceptable?
Just the disdain I see one peoples faces when I even suggest it. That's what poor people do.
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Stopped buying deodorant :)
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my TV broke and I didn't replace it for about 9 months. 9 months of pretty much daily hectoring and shocked outrage that I didn't have one. It was kinda weird to be honest. Got even more outrage when I bought a 32" on for £50 second hand. Apparently its "tiny". Sigh.
People get really weird about TVs. Back when my GF and I lived with roommates, the house TV was purchased by one of the roommates, so when we moved out that stayed with them. We didn't buy a TV of our own for about 18 months. In the meantime, if we watched anything, it was on our 24" computer monitor. Apparently that's a crime.
And when we finally bought our TV, it was "only" a 43" 1080p (in early 2017), also apparently a crime. As far as I'm concerned, it's pretty close to the biggest TV that works without having an entire house designed around how giant the TV is.
Oh absolutely. I spent years without a TV. In fact, I've never purchased a TV in my life. Every single TV that I've owned has been a freebie from a friend or family member when they were upgrading their TV. I currently have a 42" 1080P because my buddy got a 60" 4K set.
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I've donated blood before, but have never sold plasma. Why is that socially unacceptable?
Just the disdain I see one peoples faces when I even suggest it. That's what poor people do.
This is really interesting to me. In Canada most blood and plasma donations are unpaid, because they don't want to corrupt the supply with people who lie to get paid. So if you donate, it's usually seen as a good, altruistic thing to do. Of course, we never have enough voluntary donors so we end up buying paid supplies from the US, so it's a bit of a silly system.
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I've donated blood before, but have never sold plasma. Why is that socially unacceptable?
Just the disdain I see one peoples faces when I even suggest it. That's what poor people do.
This is really interesting to me. In Canada most blood and plasma donations are unpaid, because they don't want to corrupt the supply with people who lie to get paid. So if you donate, it's usually seen as a good, altruistic thing to do. Of course, we never have enough voluntary donors so we end up buying paid supplies from the US, so it's a bit of a silly system.
Oh, absolutely. Whole blood was a paid product in the USA until ~1970 when the Red Cross started to push donation. Now tons of people donate whole blood and that's altruistic, but plasma is still paid. It's not just supply corruption, they also want to stop people from "donating" too frequently.
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Probably the thing I've done that's garnered the most outrage (seriously, people really get upset about it) was getting my tubes tied when I was 21.Though it was more due to child-hating than cost-cutting, it's saved me a fortune on birth control.
Using the term, "child-hating," probably doesn't help quell that outrage. That's like saying you hate puppies or kittens.
Surprisingly, in my experience that's not the case. The people who get outraged do so without asking further questions, so they have no idea if I did it to save money, because I hate kids, have a medical condition, or any other reason. The people who don't get offended/outraged from the start seem to continue to not get offended/outraged after I tell them my reasons.
I know someone (USA) that was told a flat no from her doctor about getting her tubes tied. She was 29 at the time. "Child-hating" would be her reason too.
Personally, I was snipped at 26 despite getting every question wrong at the urologist. (How many kids do you have? Are you married? How old are you? Zero, no, 26.) 3 years later and I can't believe I didn't do it sooner.
Wow, 29 is getting pretty old to have to deal with that bullshit. Doctors are weird. I was already feeling too old to deal with that bullshit at 21 when I finally had mine done after trying for four years. I was at the point of strategizing like I was going into battle. One doctor seemed to like points X and Y, but then point Z sank me, avoid saying Z. These demographics of medical workers seem to be more willing to help, let's try to find more people who tick those boxes. Can I strategically lie to the front liners in a way that will get me to the next level up without harming my case. My final attempt was a damn work of art, and it worked - and the surgeon got a kick out of my strategy when I fessed up.
It does seem to have gotten easier since then. I have two younger cousins who also got sterilized fairly young, along with a few acquaintances.
My oldest daughter had her tubes tied nine years ago when she was 20. Same reason, had just never liked kids and couldn't see that changing. She had to push her GP for a referral and the second gynaecologist she saw agreed only if she could get another colleague to support the decision.
I thought reversible contraception would be a better decision (free in the UK, and she had been happy with the implant for several years) but she had my full support and she's never shown any sign of regret. Bottom line, if someone doesn't want children then making sure they don't have children is the most responsible thing they can do.
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I've donated blood before, but have never sold plasma. Why is that socially unacceptable?
Back in the day (pre-AIDS) I use to drive by a commercial plasma center in an ungentrified part of downtown. The center opened at 0800 and if you saw the people lined up at 0730 to donate you'd never want plasma and you'd understand why people are skeeved out by those who sell plasma. I think that's largely where the prejudice comes. Today a lot more plasma is donated rather than sold.
Just the disdain I see one peoples faces when I even suggest it. That's what poor people do.
This is really interesting to me. In Canada most blood and plasma donations are unpaid, because they don't want to corrupt the supply with people who lie to get paid. So if you donate, it's usually seen as a good, altruistic thing to do. Of course, we never have enough voluntary donors so we end up buying paid supplies from the US, so it's a bit of a silly system.
Oh, absolutely. Whole blood was a paid product in the USA until ~1970 when the Red Cross started to push donation. Now tons of people donate whole blood and that's altruistic, but plasma is still paid. It's not just supply corruption, they also want to stop people from "donating" too frequently.
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I've donated blood before, but have never sold plasma. Why is that socially unacceptable?
Just the disdain I see one peoples faces when I even suggest it. That's what poor people do.
Around here selling plasma is kind of associated with being a drug addict because it's an easy way to make cash. And people have this idea you'll catch drug addiction or AIDS or something. It seems totally irrational to me. I've never been but I'm pretty sure the medical professionals who work there don't reuse the needles. 🙄
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Around here selling plasma is kind of associated with being a drug addict because it's an easy way to make cash. And people have this idea you'll catch drug addiction or AIDS or something. It seems totally irrational to me. I've never been but I'm pretty sure the medical professionals who work there don't reuse the needles. 🙄
Well, not in the USA anyways. In some places, there's hasn't been a great track record.
By 1995, Henan Province had become a blood farm built on a criminalized plasma economy. Thousands of Chinese donors became infected with AIDS and Hepatitis C.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/05/blood-money-the-twisted-business-of-donating-plasma/362012/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/05/blood-money-the-twisted-business-of-donating-plasma/362012/)
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Probably the thing I've done that's garnered the most outrage (seriously, people really get upset about it) was getting my tubes tied when I was 21.Though it was more due to child-hating than cost-cutting, it's saved me a fortune on birth control.
Using the term, "child-hating," probably doesn't help quell that outrage. That's like saying you hate puppies or kittens.
Surprisingly, in my experience that's not the case. The people who get outraged do so without asking further questions, so they have no idea if I did it to save money, because I hate kids, have a medical condition, or any other reason. The people who don't get offended/outraged from the start seem to continue to not get offended/outraged after I tell them my reasons.
I know someone (USA) that was told a flat no from her doctor about getting her tubes tied. She was 29 at the time. "Child-hating" would be her reason too.
Personally, I was snipped at 26 despite getting every question wrong at the urologist. (How many kids do you have? Are you married? How old are you? Zero, no, 26.) 3 years later and I can't believe I didn't do it sooner.
Wow, 29 is getting pretty old to have to deal with that bullshit. Doctors are weird. I was already feeling too old to deal with that bullshit at 21 when I finally had mine done after trying for four years. I was at the point of strategizing like I was going into battle. One doctor seemed to like points X and Y, but then point Z sank me, avoid saying Z. These demographics of medical workers seem to be more willing to help, let's try to find more people who tick those boxes. Can I strategically lie to the front liners in a way that will get me to the next level up without harming my case. My final attempt was a damn work of art, and it worked - and the surgeon got a kick out of my strategy when I fessed up.
It does seem to have gotten easier since then. I have two younger cousins who also got sterilized fairly young, along with a few acquaintances.
Just a few years ago my coworker’s husband (mid to late 30s, two kids) asked his doctor to schedule a vasectomy and the doctor said he needed his wife’s permission. She was like WTF go to a different doctor. Because even though she had been, uh, greatly encouraging him to get it down, the notion of spousal permission was repugnant. I feel like it’s a more common issue for women who want their tubes tied, but I thought it was interesting that some men get push back too.
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Probably the thing I've done that's garnered the most outrage (seriously, people really get upset about it) was getting my tubes tied when I was 21.Though it was more due to child-hating than cost-cutting, it's saved me a fortune on birth control.
Using the term, "child-hating," probably doesn't help quell that outrage. That's like saying you hate puppies or kittens.
Surprisingly, in my experience that's not the case. The people who get outraged do so without asking further questions, so they have no idea if I did it to save money, because I hate kids, have a medical condition, or any other reason. The people who don't get offended/outraged from the start seem to continue to not get offended/outraged after I tell them my reasons.
I know someone (USA) that was told a flat no from her doctor about getting her tubes tied. She was 29 at the time. "Child-hating" would be her reason too.
Personally, I was snipped at 26 despite getting every question wrong at the urologist. (How many kids do you have? Are you married? How old are you? Zero, no, 26.) 3 years later and I can't believe I didn't do it sooner.
Wow, 29 is getting pretty old to have to deal with that bullshit. Doctors are weird. I was already feeling too old to deal with that bullshit at 21 when I finally had mine done after trying for four years. I was at the point of strategizing like I was going into battle. One doctor seemed to like points X and Y, but then point Z sank me, avoid saying Z. These demographics of medical workers seem to be more willing to help, let's try to find more people who tick those boxes. Can I strategically lie to the front liners in a way that will get me to the next level up without harming my case. My final attempt was a damn work of art, and it worked - and the surgeon got a kick out of my strategy when I fessed up.
It does seem to have gotten easier since then. I have two younger cousins who also got sterilized fairly young, along with a few acquaintances.
Just a few years ago my coworker’s husband (mid to late 30s, two kids) asked his doctor to schedule a vasectomy and the doctor said he needed his wife’s permission. She was like WTF go to a different doctor. Because even though she had been, uh, greatly encouraging him to get it down, the notion of spousal permission was repugnant. I feel like it’s a more common issue for women who want their tubes tied, but I thought it was interesting that some men get push back too.
Y'all are looking at this from the perspective of an intelligent, reasonable person. Unfortunately, a large number of people aren't intelligent or reasonable.
There are a lot of dumbasses out there who will make a snap decision or lie to a doctor that their spouse is on board. The doctor doesn't want to be in the middle of a marriage fight.
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That’s fine but unless the individual lacks capacity, they don’t need anyone else’s consent to receive medical care.
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Probably the thing I've done that's garnered the most outrage (seriously, people really get upset about it) was getting my tubes tied when I was 21.Though it was more due to child-hating than cost-cutting, it's saved me a fortune on birth control.
Using the term, "child-hating," probably doesn't help quell that outrage. That's like saying you hate puppies or kittens.
Surprisingly, in my experience that's not the case. The people who get outraged do so without asking further questions, so they have no idea if I did it to save money, because I hate kids, have a medical condition, or any other reason. The people who don't get offended/outraged from the start seem to continue to not get offended/outraged after I tell them my reasons.
I know someone (USA) that was told a flat no from her doctor about getting her tubes tied. She was 29 at the time. "Child-hating" would be her reason too.
Personally, I was snipped at 26 despite getting every question wrong at the urologist. (How many kids do you have? Are you married? How old are you? Zero, no, 26.) 3 years later and I can't believe I didn't do it sooner.
Wow, 29 is getting pretty old to have to deal with that bullshit. Doctors are weird. I was already feeling too old to deal with that bullshit at 21 when I finally had mine done after trying for four years. I was at the point of strategizing like I was going into battle. One doctor seemed to like points X and Y, but then point Z sank me, avoid saying Z. These demographics of medical workers seem to be more willing to help, let's try to find more people who tick those boxes. Can I strategically lie to the front liners in a way that will get me to the next level up without harming my case. My final attempt was a damn work of art, and it worked - and the surgeon got a kick out of my strategy when I fessed up.
It does seem to have gotten easier since then. I have two younger cousins who also got sterilized fairly young, along with a few acquaintances.
Just a few years ago my coworker’s husband (mid to late 30s, two kids) asked his doctor to schedule a vasectomy and the doctor said he needed his wife’s permission. She was like WTF go to a different doctor. Because even though she had been, uh, greatly encouraging him to get it down, the notion of spousal permission was repugnant. I feel like it’s a more common issue for women who want their tubes tied, but I thought it was interesting that some men get push back too.
Y'all are looking at this from the perspective of an intelligent, reasonable person. Unfortunately, a large number of people aren't intelligent or reasonable.
There are a lot of dumbasses out there who will make a snap decision or lie to a doctor that their spouse is on board. The doctor doesn't want to be in the middle of a marriage fight.
More importantly, the doctor doesn't want to get sued. This is a liability issue, especially if in a country teeming with lawyers where lawsuits can be filed via a few clicks. The doctor is trying to cover his ass and ensure all stakeholders are on-board with le snip snip.
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Probably the thing I've done that's garnered the most outrage (seriously, people really get upset about it) was getting my tubes tied when I was 21.Though it was more due to child-hating than cost-cutting, it's saved me a fortune on birth control.
Using the term, "child-hating," probably doesn't help quell that outrage. That's like saying you hate puppies or kittens.
Surprisingly, in my experience that's not the case. The people who get outraged do so without asking further questions, so they have no idea if I did it to save money, because I hate kids, have a medical condition, or any other reason. The people who don't get offended/outraged from the start seem to continue to not get offended/outraged after I tell them my reasons.
I know someone (USA) that was told a flat no from her doctor about getting her tubes tied. She was 29 at the time. "Child-hating" would be her reason too.
Personally, I was snipped at 26 despite getting every question wrong at the urologist. (How many kids do you have? Are you married? How old are you? Zero, no, 26.) 3 years later and I can't believe I didn't do it sooner.
Wow, 29 is getting pretty old to have to deal with that bullshit. Doctors are weird. I was already feeling too old to deal with that bullshit at 21 when I finally had mine done after trying for four years. I was at the point of strategizing like I was going into battle. One doctor seemed to like points X and Y, but then point Z sank me, avoid saying Z. These demographics of medical workers seem to be more willing to help, let's try to find more people who tick those boxes. Can I strategically lie to the front liners in a way that will get me to the next level up without harming my case. My final attempt was a damn work of art, and it worked - and the surgeon got a kick out of my strategy when I fessed up.
It does seem to have gotten easier since then. I have two younger cousins who also got sterilized fairly young, along with a few acquaintances.
Just a few years ago my coworker’s husband (mid to late 30s, two kids) asked his doctor to schedule a vasectomy and the doctor said he needed his wife’s permission. She was like WTF go to a different doctor. Because even though she had been, uh, greatly encouraging him to get it down, the notion of spousal permission was repugnant. I feel like it’s a more common issue for women who want their tubes tied, but I thought it was interesting that some men get push back too.
Y'all are looking at this from the perspective of an intelligent, reasonable person. Unfortunately, a large number of people aren't intelligent or reasonable.
There are a lot of dumbasses out there who will make a snap decision or lie to a doctor that their spouse is on board. The doctor doesn't want to be in the middle of a marriage fight.
What business is it of the doctors whether a spouse is onboard or not? He's not the decider (and neither is a spouse) of what I want to do to my body unless it is illegal or harmful. While I agree requesting a younger childless person get some counseling before making an irreversible decsion is a wise thing, in the end it is up to the person and not their spouse or their doctor to make that decision for them. That's a personal decision between spouses not a medical doctor. Of course in a healthy relationship all that is probably discussed before marriage or when making the decision but still up to the individual even if it wrecks the marriage.
See Jinga Nation's response.
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I still have clothes from college that I wear regularly. I repair our clothes when they need it. When my kid busts through the knees of his pants I hang onto them and turn them into shorts for the summer. Most of my child's clothes except his school uniforms are bought second hand. I thrift shop a lot and buy all kinds of things there, including gifts for friends and family. Everyone I would consider a friend actually loves all my handmade and thrifty ways but I have gotten some snooty looks from people who think used items are inferior to new. The most common scenario is I tell a coworker and they are horrified. But these same people will start complaining about having no money and I just go check my bank balance and smirk. There is nothing in this world that compares to the security of knowing you have put yourself in a position to weather whatever storms come your way.
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Is a spouse legally required to get permission from other spouse to get snipped or tubes tied? Can a spouse sue a doctor because they did the procedure without the other spouses written consent? I don't know the answer but it would seem unlikely.
ETA: Googled this: "Tubal ligation is a surgical procedure that is over 99% effective at preventing pregnancy, according to the Mayo Clinic. ... According to federal government policy, women do not need their spouse's consent to have their tubes tied, though that was a requirement decades ago."
Is a doctor required to provide treatment to everyone who requests it?
Reading that same article you are referring to, state laws can't require spousal consent, but individual medical providers can. I'm all for a doctor choosing not to do it if they don't want. If you don't like that a specific doctor won't do it, then find one who will. I can't imagine that my wife's OBGYN would think twice about doing the procedure for my wife, with or without my permission. Maybe it's because she's a woman.
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Everyone is right. An individual does NOT need the consent of their spouse for a vasectomy or tubal ligation. At the same time, as these are entirely elective procedures, a doctor can put whatever stipulations they want before agreeing to proceed. Similar to requiring patients to lose a certain amount of weight and go to counseling/diet classes prior to a gastric bypass surgery.
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Sold a $32K car for a 1.5K honda. Proceeded to pick up a client from the airport prior to Uber’s ubiquity – turns out despite his Fortune 500 CFO’s income his car had more miles and years on it than my own.
Resole my own natural dress shoes.
Manually evacuated a long since last used septic pit just to help out a friend.
Lived in my car for a few seasons – showered at truck stops.
Rented a rotting coal room in the ghetto for 2 years while paying (much) of my way through college in a very expensive major.
Budget - tweak, optimize, repeat
Maintain a $60/Month rolling restaurant budget for a family of 5
Cook entire weeks’ worth of meals once per week – 95% of the time in my ceramic grill (despite subzero temperature or downpours).
Corn my own brisket – and tongue.
Sauer my own kraut.
Look to tweak my own macros/micro/exercise balance when my body isn’t ticking quite right before jumping over to a doctors’ den.
Use cyanoacrylic on flesh wounds that most would just get stitched.
Make my own soap – I lye not.
No cable tele – mostly read books.
In general, repair or restore rather than replace.
Refuse to carry a credit card balance.
If 'something' is wanted, give it a month (or more) to consider if it actually adds value to my life.
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I bought a 2007 Pontiac Vibe in Jan 2020 with 158,000 miles for $2750. People scratch their head and ask why I don't drive a $40,000 SUV. Justification is sometimes given that I like to snowboard in the mountains. Yes, that true, I'm hoping for 30-40 days of snowboarding next season. However, if I buy a $40,000 SUV that means I will have work more hours to afford the payment and my number of snowboarding days would go down to 20 days for the season.
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Another one - not wearing makeup or doing hair stuff. I avoid it because it just seems stupid and pointless to me to fuck around trying to make myself look different, and I haven't got a clue what I'm doing anyways, but it probably saves me a fortune, at least according to all the people who talk about the unavoidable "pink tax" and how that stuff puts women in the poor house. Good thing it's optional!
When I was a teenager people used to tell me that a) no guy would date a woman who didn't do makeup/hair stuff, and b) no company would ever hire said woman, particularly for customer-facing roles. Turns out to all be bullshit. Tons of guys actually hate makeup altogether and purposely look for women who don't wear it (like, literally everyone I've dated). And I've never had trouble finding work either.
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When I was a teenager people used to tell me that a) no guy would date a woman who didn't do makeup/hair stuff, and b) no company would ever hire said woman, particularly for customer-facing roles.
Could you imagine how much it would hold back your career if being a cashier at Sephora isn't an option?
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Another one - not wearing makeup or doing hair stuff. I avoid it because it just seems stupid and pointless to me to fuck around trying to make myself look different, and I haven't got a clue what I'm doing anyways, but it probably saves me a fortune, at least according to all the people who talk about the unavoidable "pink tax" and how that stuff puts women in the poor house. Good thing it's optional!
When I was a teenager people used to tell me that a) no guy would date a woman who didn't do makeup/hair stuff, and b) no company would ever hire said woman, particularly for customer-facing roles. Turns out to all be bullshit. Tons of guys actually hate makeup altogether and purposely look for women who don't wear it (like, literally everyone I've dated). And I've never had trouble finding work either.
I can't count the number of times I was told the same thing. To this date I have never owned makeup, aside from like...a tinted lip gloss for those "really special occasions" haha...I've had at least 5 customer facing jobs, and no one has ever mentioned the fact that I don't wear makeup, unless it was in the context of "it's really refreshing to see a woman who isn't caked in makeup every day". And this is not to say anything negative about women who like to wear makeup...you do you...but I never understood spending that amount of money on something that I will literally wash off every night. Also I am just really a "what you see is what you get" kind of person...no need to cover it up. Also, it seems....messy. I don't know. I am a total mess, there is no way I could keep make up looking good all day. So much effort and maintenance. Also I cut my hair with kitchen scissors and no one ever seems to notice!
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Another one - not wearing makeup or doing hair stuff. I avoid it because it just seems stupid and pointless to me to fuck around trying to make myself look different, and I haven't got a clue what I'm doing anyways, but it probably saves me a fortune, at least according to all the people who talk about the unavoidable "pink tax" and how that stuff puts women in the poor house. Good thing it's optional!
When I was a teenager people used to tell me that a) no guy would date a woman who didn't do makeup/hair stuff, and b) no company would ever hire said woman, particularly for customer-facing roles. Turns out to all be bullshit. Tons of guys actually hate makeup altogether and purposely look for women who don't wear it (like, literally everyone I've dated). And I've never had trouble finding work either.
I can't count the number of times I was told the same thing. To this date I have never owned makeup, aside from like...a tinted lip gloss for those "really special occasions" haha...I've had at least 5 customer facing jobs, and no one has ever mentioned the fact that I don't wear makeup, unless it was in the context of "it's really refreshing to see a woman who isn't caked in makeup every day". And this is not to say anything negative about women who like to wear makeup...you do you...but I never understood spending that amount of money on something that I will literally wash off every night. Also I am just really a "what you see is what you get" kind of person...no need to cover it up. Also, it seems....messy. I don't know. I am a total mess, there is no way I could keep make up looking good all day. So much effort and maintenance. Also I cut my hair with kitchen scissors and no one ever seems to notice!
Yeah, the mess is a huge factor as well. I touch my face a lot, and the amount of mental effort I'd have to put into not fucking up makeup after it was on would mean I really couldn't do much of anything, let alone actually do my job. I've managed to wear it briefly a few times when I was a teenager, for like a couple of hours, but all day? Not a chance.
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Makeup requires waking up early, and I'm not about that life.
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Another one - not wearing makeup or doing hair stuff. I avoid it because it just seems stupid and pointless to me to fuck around trying to make myself look different, and I haven't got a clue what I'm doing anyways, but it probably saves me a fortune, at least according to all the people who talk about the unavoidable "pink tax" and how that stuff puts women in the poor house. Good thing it's optional!
When I was a teenager people used to tell me that a) no guy would date a woman who didn't do makeup/hair stuff, and b) no company would ever hire said woman, particularly for customer-facing roles. Turns out to all be bullshit. Tons of guys actually hate makeup altogether and purposely look for women who don't wear it (like, literally everyone I've dated). And I've never had trouble finding work either.
I think that's how I found my dream job in a semiconductor fab.
I talked to a friend from the Navy when he was in grad school and doing an internship at Intel. I mentioned not wearing makeup in the fab. He said "THAT'S IT! I sit in these daily meetings and there are a few women in there that look 'different' and I couldn't figure out why."
Another funny. Apparently there's a funny meme out there with a picture of The Little Mermaid with "eyebrows in the 90s" (pencil thin) and a picture of Moana with "eyebrows in 2020" (bushy). There were all these comments on it about how they went pencil thin and they don't grow back, etc.
Well, 20 years ago there was this lady at the gym who told me "if you did your brows and wore some makeup you'd be really pretty". Now, my brows are natural. Blond/light brown. Not bushy, just normal. But this was the late 90s of pencil thin brows. I shrugged it off.
What do I see on my FB feed right below this meme? Rodan and Fields have come out with some sort of eyebrow enhancer to add volume, ha! For all those ladies who have been plucking for 20 + years I guess.
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Another one - not wearing makeup or doing hair stuff. I avoid it because it just seems stupid and pointless to me to fuck around trying to make myself look different, and I haven't got a clue what I'm doing anyways, but it probably saves me a fortune, at least according to all the people who talk about the unavoidable "pink tax" and how that stuff puts women in the poor house. Good thing it's optional!
When I was a teenager people used to tell me that a) no guy would date a woman who didn't do makeup/hair stuff, and b) no company would ever hire said woman, particularly for customer-facing roles. Turns out to all be bullshit. Tons of guys actually hate makeup altogether and purposely look for women who don't wear it (like, literally everyone I've dated). And I've never had trouble finding work either.
Make up, hair stuff, getting nails done, brows done, eyelashes extensions, etc. Where I live, every girl thinks it is a necessity and if you dont do it all you dont "take care of yourself" apparently.
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Also, I do pick up coins sometimes and also get teased for that. Somehow its wrong to pick up free money
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Another one - not wearing makeup or doing hair stuff. I avoid it because it just seems stupid and pointless to me to fuck around trying to make myself look different, and I haven't got a clue what I'm doing anyways, but it probably saves me a fortune, at least according to all the people who talk about the unavoidable "pink tax" and how that stuff puts women in the poor house. Good thing it's optional!
When I was a teenager people used to tell me that a) no guy would date a woman who didn't do makeup/hair stuff, and b) no company would ever hire said woman, particularly for customer-facing roles. Turns out to all be bullshit. Tons of guys actually hate makeup altogether and purposely look for women who don't wear it (like, literally everyone I've dated). And I've never had trouble finding work either.
Make up, hair stuff, getting nails done, brows done, eyelashes extensions, etc. Where I live, every girl thinks it is a necessity and if you dont do it all you dont "take care of yourself" apparently.
I used to be that girl. It's a lot of energy, and no one actually cares. I was never ever treated better as a result of all of that time, money and effort put into my appearance. I would say professionally, it actually hurt me more than anything.
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Sundays are shower days and I don't use soap (except for washing hands), shampoo or deodorant. Just a good rinse, lots of scrubbing and some oil to cleanse the face. I take a quick sink bath with a wet cloth all other days. This isn't solely motivated by cutting expenses, it also saves time/water and makes me (literally) happier in my own skin. I don't share this routine IRL.
If you asked my coworkers, they would certainly mention my lack of a car (bike and transit), and that I live in one of the least expensive zips in the Denver Metro area, in my small house, with two roommates.
My friends would point out that I no longer drink alcohol or caffeine, that I rarely go out to eat, and that at almost 40 years old I sleep in a twin bed because nothing larger will fit in my bedroom.
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Sundays are shower days and I don't use soap (except for washing hands), shampoo or deodorant. Just a good rinse, lots of scrubbing and some oil to cleanse the face. I take a quick sink bath with a wet cloth all other days. This isn't solely motivated by cutting expenses, it also saves time/water and makes me (literally) happier in my own skin. I don't share this routine IRL.
If you asked my coworkers, they would certainly mention my lack of a car (bike and transit), and that I live in one of the least expensive zips in the Denver Metro area, in my small house, with two roommates.
My friends would point out that I no longer drink alcohol or caffeine, that I rarely go out to eat, and that at almost 40 years old I sleep in a twin bed because nothing larger will fit in my bedroom.
You only shower once a week? I could see it working in Denver, since the weather is usually cool/cold.
Regarding the thread topic: Ive heard of people who go to hotels in the morning to steal some continental breakfast.
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I've started to take a bath in the water butt/rainwater tank out in my front garden.
No I'm just joking there, but that would be pretty socially unacceptable to my neighbours right! I guess it depends on what you mean by socially acceptable. I do things that are not common choices but that would be fairly standard practice on here e.g. walk to work, keep cars a long time, don't keep purchasing/upgrading stuff etc, but despite me going against the grain here I don't think they would be deemed as socially unacceptable.
I'm not sure I can think of anything Mustachian that I do that could cause offence or be deemed socially unacceptable.
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Dumpster diving for food.
I understand why it grosses people out because that was my first reaction when someone told me they were doing it. After giving it a go however I realized you can find plenty of stuff in good condition still in it's package. Personally I stick to fruits and vegetables as I can sort and wash everything but some people take shelf stable or even refrigerated products if they're still cold.
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Sundays are shower days and I don't use soap (except for washing hands), shampoo or deodorant. Just a good rinse, lots of scrubbing and some oil to cleanse the face. I take a quick sink bath with a wet cloth all other days. This isn't solely motivated by cutting expenses, it also saves time/water and makes me (literally) happier in my own skin. I don't share this routine IRL.
If you asked my coworkers, they would certainly mention my lack of a car (bike and transit), and that I live in one of the least expensive zips in the Denver Metro area, in my small house, with two roommates.
My friends would point out that I no longer drink alcohol or caffeine, that I rarely go out to eat, and that at almost 40 years old I sleep in a twin bed because nothing larger will fit in my bedroom.
You only shower once a week? That's nasty!
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Probably the thing I've done that's garnered the most outrage (seriously, people really get upset about it) was getting my tubes tied when I was 21.Though it was more due to child-hating than cost-cutting, it's saved me a fortune on birth control.
Using the term, "child-hating," probably doesn't help quell that outrage. That's like saying you hate puppies or kittens.
Surprisingly, in my experience that's not the case. The people who get outraged do so without asking further questions, so they have no idea if I did it to save money, because I hate kids, have a medical condition, or any other reason. The people who don't get offended/outraged from the start seem to continue to not get offended/outraged after I tell them my reasons.
I know someone (USA) that was told a flat no from her doctor about getting her tubes tied. She was 29 at the time. "Child-hating" would be her reason too.
Personally, I was snipped at 26 despite getting every question wrong at the urologist. (How many kids do you have? Are you married? How old are you? Zero, no, 26.) 3 years later and I can't believe I didn't do it sooner.
I think the snip is reversible but getting your tubes tied isn't so generally women have a harder time getting it doctor approved if younger and haven't had kids yet. I'm child-free to but not because of money (saved me a ton though!) or disliking kids. Just zero desire to have or raise them. Lots of pups and kitty's though.
I've done a couple of weird things to earn extra money that would be frowned on. Otherwise much of my lifestyle was pretty non-conformist for "back in ye olde olden tymes" that I had to deal with a lot of disdain. Although so.e of it cut expenses.
That’s not true. Getting tubes tied is certainly reversible.
My mother-in-law had her tubes tied about 24 years ago after having 4 kids. Then she got remarried around 6 years ago. He had a vasectomy about 18 years prior.
They both went down to Mexico, had reversals done, and she was pregnant within a few months. She had a daughter (my sister in law) who is now six, then had another son (my brother in law) who is now three. My wife is 26.
For both vasectomy’s and having tubes tied, generally the longer you wait for a reversal, the less chance of having success. Somehow they were both successful very quickly!
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Two of mine is that I paid cash for my car. Apparently my coworkers thought I was paid too much when I said I didn't believe in debt so I didn't take out a loan. I told them I just do it the old fashioned way and save up the money first.
The second one is I cloth diapered kiddo. I got a lot of weird reactions to that one. But in the end kiddo was fully potty trained young (which is more common with cloth than disposable) and I only spent $200 on diapers the entire baby/toddler years.
Probably the thing I've done that's garnered the most outrage (seriously, people really get upset about it) was getting my tubes tied when I was 21.Though it was more due to child-hating than cost-cutting, it's saved me a fortune on birth control.
Using the term, "child-hating," probably doesn't help quell that outrage. That's like saying you hate puppies or kittens.
Surprisingly, in my experience that's not the case. The people who get outraged do so without asking further questions, so they have no idea if I did it to save money, because I hate kids, have a medical condition, or any other reason. The people who don't get offended/outraged from the start seem to continue to not get offended/outraged after I tell them my reasons.
I know someone (USA) that was told a flat no from her doctor about getting her tubes tied. She was 29 at the time. "Child-hating" would be her reason too.
Personally, I was snipped at 26 despite getting every question wrong at the urologist. (How many kids do you have? Are you married? How old are you? Zero, no, 26.) 3 years later and I can't believe I didn't do it sooner.
Wow, 29 is getting pretty old to have to deal with that bullshit. Doctors are weird. I was already feeling too old to deal with that bullshit at 21 when I finally had mine done after trying for four years. I was at the point of strategizing like I was going into battle. One doctor seemed to like points X and Y, but then point Z sank me, avoid saying Z. These demographics of medical workers seem to be more willing to help, let's try to find more people who tick those boxes. Can I strategically lie to the front liners in a way that will get me to the next level up without harming my case. My final attempt was a damn work of art, and it worked - and the surgeon got a kick out of my strategy when I fessed up.
It does seem to have gotten easier since then. I have two younger cousins who also got sterilized fairly young, along with a few acquaintances.
My oldest daughter had her tubes tied nine years ago when she was 20. Same reason, had just never liked kids and couldn't see that changing. She had to push her GP for a referral and the second gynaecologist she saw agreed only if she could get another colleague to support the decision.
I thought reversible contraception would be a better decision (free in the UK, and she had been happy with the implant for several years) but she had my full support and she's never shown any sign of regret. Bottom line, if someone doesn't want children then making sure they don't have children is the most responsible thing they can do.
Kiddo has been saying they refuse to have kids and begged me not to have anymore. Even as a teen kiddo tells me the only kids they like are the goat kind. lol I expect similar things in my future.
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40 years ago when our friends were getting vasectomies after having 2 kids the doctors didn’t want to do it. We go and when he asked how many kids you had and we said 3 he scheduled it quickly. That must have been enough in his mind:)). Some doctors cut the tubes short and then cauterize so they cannot grow back together if they come untied. I haven’t heard of many reversals being successful.
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Another one - not wearing makeup or doing hair stuff. I avoid it because it just seems stupid and pointless to me to fuck around trying to make myself look different, and I haven't got a clue what I'm doing anyways, but it probably saves me a fortune, at least according to all the people who talk about the unavoidable "pink tax" and how that stuff puts women in the poor house. Good thing it's optional!
When I was a teenager people used to tell me that a) no guy would date a woman who didn't do makeup/hair stuff, and b) no company would ever hire said woman, particularly for customer-facing roles. Turns out to all be bullshit. Tons of guys actually hate makeup altogether and purposely look for women who don't wear it (like, literally everyone I've dated). And I've never had trouble finding work either.
Oh man, I remember in college my mom had a professional over to forcibly teach me how to apply makeup because they were convinced that I could never succeed in an interview without it. I've always hated wearing makeup and it's never once impacted my career. I don't think pink tax is about make-up though, it's about the same item / brand costing more for the "female" version and the taxes on menstrual products vs taxes on other essential items like groceries and prescriptions in the U.S.
My socially unacceptable thing would probably be using one bar for all purpose body wash / shampoo / conditioner in the shower and using things til they're completely busted & not repairable (shoes, clothes, car, phone, etc). The other one I got a surprising amount of flak for was traveling with just a backpack, no matter the trip length. I can fly Spirit for cheap and never pay carry-on fees, it's great. Apparently people are appalled at the idea of a decently dressed professional female traveling light. I did a demo for some of my coworkers who kept harassing me over it and their reactions were pretty funny. "But how could you live without more stuff??????"
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I don't think pink tax is about make-up though, it's about the same item / brand costing more for the "female" version and the taxes on menstrual products vs taxes on other essential items like groceries and prescriptions in the U.S.
I hate when people talk about the "pink tax". I'm not talking about taxes on feminine hygiene products (that's a legitimate issue imo), I'm talking about the fact that people get in such an uproar because items marketed toward women cost more than the same/similar items marketed toward men.
If the blue razor is cheaper and does just as good, then don't pay more for the freakin' pink one and then go on a rant about how awful the system is. Just buy the blue one! And while we're talking about razors, I just buy whatever is the best deal. I've used pink razors and my wife has used blue razors. If the store is clearing out perfectly good razors because we now have the technology to add a sixth blade (are we up to six now? or is it eight?), I'll buy all they have (or if we've never used that style, buy one to try then go buy all that's left).
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You only shower once a week? I could see it working in Denver, since the weather is usually cool/cold.
Regarding the thread topic: Ive heard of people who go to hotels in the morning to steal some continental breakfast.
I've found it's not really the cool/cold - it's been consistently in the 90's here the last few weeks - but the lack of humidity that makes it possible. I was inspired by this article, tried it out, and have been on board since. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/08/shower-once-a-week-polluting-environment (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/08/shower-once-a-week-polluting-environment) People close enough to realize my routine (GFs and roommates) have always been pretty shocked that someone could go a week without it being noticeable.
You only shower once a week? That's nasty!
Garret B here to illustrate why I don't share IRL. Thanks Garret.
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Probably getting furniture from [next to] the dumpster. People toss things for the most minute of flaws. Just this weekend my partner snagged and cleaned out a $200 vacuum cleaner that works just fine.
That's how I got my current vacuum cleaner. It's a Dyson and I've had it almost decade. It still works well, although the canister has to be held in a certain way when removed due to plastic parts breaking. Not bad for something taken out of the trash.
I found a Dyson in the trash, too! And it still worked perfectly. Sold it for $75. Also lots of furniture, including my current coffee table.
I didn't have a TV for a while after my yard sale one stopped working. Didn't bother me at all, but anyone who came to my place commented on it. Then again after a breakup when he took the tv. If my current one breaks, I probably won't replace it.
Using family cloth is probably the least acceptable thing I do. It saves so much money from literally being flushed down the toilet! I've been using handkerchiefs instead of paper tissues, too, but that's more socially acceptable.
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I don't think pink tax is about make-up though, it's about the same item / brand costing more for the "female" version and the taxes on menstrual products vs taxes on other essential items like groceries and prescriptions in the U.S.
I hate when people talk about the "pink tax". I'm not talking about taxes on feminine hygiene products (that's a legitimate issue imo), I'm talking about the fact that people get in such an uproar because items marketed toward women cost more than the same/similar items marketed toward men.
I (male) use pink razors because pink ones are 25% cheaper than blue and grey ones in England
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You only shower once a week? I could see it working in Denver, since the weather is usually cool/cold.
Regarding the thread topic: Ive heard of people who go to hotels in the morning to steal some continental breakfast.
I've found it's not really the cool/cold - it's been consistently in the 90's here the last few weeks - but the lack of humidity that makes it possible. I was inspired by this article, tried it out, and have been on board since. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/08/shower-once-a-week-polluting-environment (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/08/shower-once-a-week-polluting-environment) People close enough to realize my routine (GFs and roommates) have always been pretty shocked that someone could go a week without it being noticeable.
You only shower once a week? That's nasty!
Garret B here to illustrate why I don't share IRL. Thanks Garret.
Some might be tempted to call you Stench Aim?
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You only shower once a week? I could see it working in Denver, since the weather is usually cool/cold.
Regarding the thread topic: Ive heard of people who go to hotels in the morning to steal some continental breakfast.
I've found it's not really the cool/cold - it's been consistently in the 90's here the last few weeks - but the lack of humidity that makes it possible. I was inspired by this article, tried it out, and have been on board since. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/08/shower-once-a-week-polluting-environment (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/08/shower-once-a-week-polluting-environment) People close enough to realize my routine (GFs and roommates) have always been pretty shocked that someone could go a week without it being noticeable.
You only shower once a week? That's nasty!
Garret B here to illustrate why I don't share IRL. Thanks Garret.
Yea lack of humidity makes a difference. People in Florida would notice very quickly if you weren't showering daily 😉
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I only wear deodorant when I go to work. Other days, nothing.
During the period when I took the bus to work in the DC suburbs, you'd have thought I was a leper. Like, OMGosh, the bus, the horror!!! :) I saved a ton being car free for those few months.
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Probably the thing I've done that's garnered the most outrage (seriously, people really get upset about it) was getting my tubes tied when I was 21.Though it was more due to child-hating than cost-cutting, it's saved me a fortune on birth control.
Using the term, "child-hating," probably doesn't help quell that outrage. That's like saying you hate puppies or kittens.
Surprisingly, in my experience that's not the case. The people who get outraged do so without asking further questions, so they have no idea if I did it to save money, because I hate kids, have a medical condition, or any other reason. The people who don't get offended/outraged from the start seem to continue to not get offended/outraged after I tell them my reasons.
I know someone (USA) that was told a flat no from her doctor about getting her tubes tied. She was 29 at the time. "Child-hating" would be her reason too.
Personally, I was snipped at 26 despite getting every question wrong at the urologist. (How many kids do you have? Are you married? How old are you? Zero, no, 26.) 3 years later and I can't believe I didn't do it sooner.
Wow, 29 is getting pretty old to have to deal with that bullshit. Doctors are weird. I was already feeling too old to deal with that bullshit at 21 when I finally had mine done after trying for four years. I was at the point of strategizing like I was going into battle. One doctor seemed to like points X and Y, but then point Z sank me, avoid saying Z. These demographics of medical workers seem to be more willing to help, let's try to find more people who tick those boxes. Can I strategically lie to the front liners in a way that will get me to the next level up without harming my case. My final attempt was a damn work of art, and it worked - and the surgeon got a kick out of my strategy when I fessed up.
It does seem to have gotten easier since then. I have two younger cousins who also got sterilized fairly young, along with a few acquaintances.
My oldest daughter had her tubes tied nine years ago when she was 20. Same reason, had just never liked kids and couldn't see that changing. She had to push her GP for a referral and the second gynaecologist she saw agreed only if she could get another colleague to support the decision.
I thought reversible contraception would be a better decision (free in the UK, and she had been happy with the implant for several years) but she had my full support and she's never shown any sign of regret. Bottom line, if someone doesn't want children then making sure they don't have children is the most responsible thing they can do.
What's fascinating to me is that a 16 year old can have her nose broken and the bone shaved down, and an 18 year old can have fat sucked out of various body parts. These are essentially irreversible changes to the body as well. But when it comes to reproductive choices, suddenly we have to protect a nearly all costs against someone doing something they might later regret.
Almost as though there is some other factor at play...
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Probably getting furniture from [next to] the dumpster. People toss things for the most minute of flaws. Just this weekend my partner snagged and cleaned out a $200 vacuum cleaner that works just fine.
Good for you! My kid's schoolwork desk is a solid wood table I dumpster picked nearly 30 years ago.
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My husband drives an 11 year old car which isn’t that impressive on these boards but in our neighbourhood it stands out. Most people we are close to ask about it but when I explain to them that I would rather spend the money other people spend on cars seeing the world they drop it.
I also think most beauty related things are a waste of time. I get one pedicure a year at the beginning of the summer and never get manicures. I also get my eyebrows waxed once a year and pluck in between. I do get some highlights added to my hair 3 times a year when I get it cut but the pandemic has me questioning if that is even worth it since I have had to deal with the way they look growing out.
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Hm. Good question.
I mean, I drive a 12-year-old car, but it’s an Audi convertible in good shape, so it still looks pretty.
I think maybe it’s that we live in a 1200 square foot condo, when most people of our age/income/status/many of our friends live in places that are much, much nicer.
But hell, our mortgage is paid off and we are FI. And thankfully, our friends are too polite to ask stuff about our life choices. Not that we would feel insulted even if they were judging us out loud.
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Everyone is right. An individual does NOT need the consent of their spouse for a vasectomy or tubal ligation. At the same time, as these are entirely elective procedures, a doctor can put whatever stipulations they want before agreeing to proceed. Similar to requiring patients to lose a certain amount of weight and go to counseling/diet classes prior to a gastric bypass surgery.
well sure but the reason cannot be arbitrary, and should be applied universally to anyone (taking into consideration their overall health situation).
In the case you mention all potential patients would be asked to reach a target weight, and that weight would be supported with actual evidence that doing so creates a reasonable outcome for the procedure.
Where you get into trouble is when you start applying more personal criteria to your choices that have no impact on the procedural outcome. In this case age for instance - there is no medical reason that a typical 25 year old etc. would have an issue with the tubal ligation.
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What's fascinating to me is that a 16 year old can have her nose broken and the bone shaved down, and an 18 year old can have fat sucked out of various body parts. These are essentially irreversible changes to the body as well. But when it comes to reproductive choices, suddenly we have to protect a nearly all costs against someone doing something they might later regret.
Almost as though there is some other factor at play...
To be honest, my extremely cynical self did find one common denominator among the people who said no - they were all older people who'd apparently flip-flopped their way through life never actually knowing firmly what they wanted or didn't want, and thus could not comprehend the idea that another person might actually know what they wanted in life. I know this because they explained their reasoning. I think it's really hard to bridge the divide for people like that, because they really have a hard time comprehending the idea of being absolutely 100% certain about something.
I actually find their perspective pretty interesting from an intellectual standpoint (though maddening from a practical one), because it's equally difficult for me to imagine going through life being wishy washy and not knowing what you want, since I've always been so certain about everything, even beyond just kids. Though at least I can accept their existence, unlike them.
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Our cars are 10 and 12 years old. One doesn’t have a remote. People have commented and I say we prefer to travel. They have low miles so will have them for a long time.
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You only shower once a week? I could see it working in Denver, since the weather is usually cool/cold.
Regarding the thread topic: Ive heard of people who go to hotels in the morning to steal some continental breakfast.
I've found it's not really the cool/cold - it's been consistently in the 90's here the last few weeks - but the lack of humidity that makes it possible. I was inspired by this article, tried it out, and have been on board since. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/08/shower-once-a-week-polluting-environment (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/08/shower-once-a-week-polluting-environment) People close enough to realize my routine (GFs and roommates) have always been pretty shocked that someone could go a week without it being noticeable.
You only shower once a week? That's nasty!
Garret B here to illustrate why I don't share IRL. Thanks Garret.
Yea lack of humidity makes a difference. People in Florida would notice very quickly if you weren't showering daily 😉
They did mention a quick sink bath on the off days. Scrub down the sweaty parts with a soapy cloth, rinse off, and you're good. I try to only shower every 5 or 6 days, and usually the only reason I shower more often is if my hair gets super sweaty under a hat and I have to go to work.
Disclaimer - I also live in Colorado :) I can see where being humid and sticky all the time might make showers feel even more refreshing and desirable.
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Selling tradelines is probably not socially acceptable in the view of many people. But that is more of a side hustle and not a way to cut expenses.
I mostly admire people who sell tradelines because I think it’s edgy and a little risky, But still fairly main stream. I only view it as a little risky because I don’t quite understand it and there’s no way I want to take on that kind of administrative financial tracking myself. But I think it’s a cool concept.
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For those of us unfamiliar with a guardianship house, could you explain what that is?
It's living in a vacant commercial building that needs to be protected from squat until it finds its purpose (be demolished and rebuilt into something else). People lived in office space / bankrupt care home / prison / etc.
Example here in an old clinic:
https://www.global-guardians.co.uk/guardian/property/1158/the-margaret-mcmillan-field-study-centre-wrotham-kent-tn15-7jn
So cool! I would totally do that. And I'd be proud of my creative solution. Good for you!
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Stopped buying deodorant :)
As long as I can't smell you unreasonably, I don't care.
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You only shower once a week? I could see it working in Denver, since the weather is usually cool/cold.
Regarding the thread topic: Ive heard of people who go to hotels in the morning to steal some continental breakfast.
I've found it's not really the cool/cold - it's been consistently in the 90's here the last few weeks - but the lack of humidity that makes it possible. I was inspired by this article, tried it out, and have been on board since. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/08/shower-once-a-week-polluting-environment (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/08/shower-once-a-week-polluting-environment) People close enough to realize my routine (GFs and roommates) have always been pretty shocked that someone could go a week without it being noticeable.
You only shower once a week? That's nasty!
Garret B here to illustrate why I don't share IRL. Thanks Garret.
Yea lack of humidity makes a difference. People in Florida would notice very quickly if you weren't showering daily 😉
They did mention a quick sink bath on the off days. Scrub down the sweaty parts with a soapy cloth, rinse off, and you're good. I try to only shower every 5 or 6 days, and usually the only reason I shower more often is if my hair gets super sweaty under a hat and I have to go to work.
Disclaimer - I also live in Colorado :) I can see where being humid and sticky all the time might make showers feel even more refreshing and desirable.
Yeah, living in Florida or in Michigan during summer is completely different. I can get away with a shower every other day and quick sink wash in between (and deodorant is necessary), but I can’t even stand my unwashed hair after 48 hours, let alone anything else. The high humidity seems to increase sebum production, and that plus sweat is uncomfortable.
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Our cars are 10 and 12 years old. One doesn’t have a remote. People have commented and I say we prefer to travel. They have low miles so will have them for a long time.
My car is ten years old and I don't care about travel. People are allowed to drive old cars. You are nicer than me. If people made comments about my car, I'd tell them to F right off.
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Our cars are 10 and 12 years old. One doesn’t have a remote. People have commented and I say we prefer to travel. They have low miles so will have them for a long time.
My car is ten years old and I don't care about travel. People are allowed to drive old cars. You are nicer than me. If people made comments about my car, I'd tell them to F right off.
We are a family of three adults. Our vehicles are 2002, 2004 and the "new" one is a 2014. They are parrked in the driveway of our paid-for house. I totally agree with slappy.
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Another one - not wearing makeup or doing hair stuff. I avoid it because it just seems stupid and pointless to me to fuck around trying to make myself look different, and I haven't got a clue what I'm doing anyways, but it probably saves me a fortune, at least according to all the people who talk about the unavoidable "pink tax" and how that stuff puts women in the poor house. Good thing it's optional!
When I was a teenager people used to tell me that a) no guy would date a woman who didn't do makeup/hair stuff, and b) no company would ever hire said woman, particularly for customer-facing roles. Turns out to all be bullshit. Tons of guys actually hate makeup altogether and purposely look for women who don't wear it (like, literally everyone I've dated). And I've never had trouble finding work either.
Thank goodness for all types of women - but the no low maintenance outdoorsy types are A+. Difficult to be fancy and do the Mike Rowe type jobs at the same time.
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Our cars are 10 and 12 years old. One doesn’t have a remote. People have commented and I say we prefer to travel. They have low miles so will have them for a long time.
My car is ten years old and I don't care about travel. People are allowed to drive old cars. You are nicer than me. If people made comments about my car, I'd tell them to F right off.
We are a family of three adults. Our vehicles are 2002, 2004 and the "new" one is a 2014. They are parrked in the driveway of our paid-for house. I totally agree with slappy.
My car is a 2007 and it still runs great. I won't replace it until I absolutely have to, and when I do it won't be with a brand new car.
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I've found it's not really the cool/cold - it's been consistently in the 90's here the last few weeks - but the lack of humidity that makes it possible. I was inspired by this article, tried it out, and have been on board since. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/08/shower-once-a-week-polluting-environment (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/08/shower-once-a-week-polluting-environment) People close enough to realize my routine (GFs and roommates) have always been pretty shocked that someone could go a week without it being noticeable.
Its different for different people. My wife can get away with infrequent showers despite the heat and humidity here. I can't though. If I did without a quick daily shower even our family dog would start complaining. ;)
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Basically just doing small things that most of my middle class friends think are beneath them.
Like...
Stopping to pick up a penny.
Picking up bottles and cans on my morning walk for the 5 cent recycling fee.
Doing a housesitting gig in exchange for free meals, not cold, hard cash.
Eating at Del Taco every Tuesday night because 3 tacos are $1.61.
Bringing my own (cheap) iced coffee in glass jars to work, instead of going to Starbucks with the rest of the gang.
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FWIW, I feel like the no shower/infrequent shower thing has been beat to death in these forums.
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Our cars are 10 and 12 years old. One doesn’t have a remote. People have commented and I say we prefer to travel. They have low miles so will have them for a long time.
My car is ten years old and I don't care about travel. People are allowed to drive old cars. You are nicer than me. If people made comments about my car, I'd tell them to F right off.
Eh, my car's an inanimate object, it doesn't need me to white knight for it. I don't think anyone's actually said anything derogatory to it though, mostly just shock that it's still around. Or I just don't interpret their comments as derogatory if they're intended to be, either way, same result.
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Our cars are 10 and 12 years old. One doesn’t have a remote. People have commented and I say we prefer to travel. They have low miles so will have them for a long time.
My car is ten years old and I don't care about travel. People are allowed to drive old cars. You are nicer than me. If people made comments about my car, I'd tell them to F right off.
Eh, my car's an inanimate object, it doesn't need me to white knight for it. I don't think anyone's actually said anything derogatory to it though, mostly just shock that it's still around. Or I just don't interpret their comments as derogatory if they're intended to be, either way, same result.
In my experience, the comment is not really about the car. It's basically an insinuation that you are too cheap to get a new car, and that's the part that is annoying. It's the same old false dichotomy of having to drive an old/"crappy" car in order to save money. Because there is nothing between "crappy beater car" and brand new SUV. /s It drives me crazy.
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It's probably where I live - teeny, tiny little run-down flat that I moved into decades ago when I was a student. The rent hasn't gone up since. I constantly get comments about my 'cave' or 'hovel' and my 'slum landlords'. This from friends who are working jobs they hate, getting paid six figures for it, and who have NOTHING left over after they pay their bills.
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These types of threads always have me scratching my hear. Most of my friends are mainstream, in the sense that they maybe save 10% or in some cases they probably save -5%.
No one ever said anything to be about my 20 year old car. (Fairly recently upgraded to a 4 yo car that we will likely own until it's about that age, hopefully). No one cares that we only own one car. (I've gotten questions about whether it's hard, whether I feel trapped, etc., but they have always seems just curious or maybe slightly confused, not judgemental or condescending.) No one ever said anything about our fairly modest townhouse we lived in, or the fact that I wear make up maybe 1/mo, or anything else. So many people have these stories about people commenting, and I just don't get it because nothing like that has ever happened to me and that's certainly not because I hang out with like-minded people. Yes no one has ever insulted any of these things. I wonder why that is?
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These types of threads always have me scratching my hear. Most of my friends are mainstream, in the sense that they maybe save 10% or in some cases they probably save -5%.
No one ever said anything to be about my 20 year old car. (Fairly recently upgraded to a 4 yo car that we will likely own until it's about that age, hopefully). No one cares that we only own one car. (I've gotten questions about whether it's hard, whether I feel trapped, etc., but they have always seems just curious or maybe slightly confused, not judgemental or condescending.) No one ever said anything about our fairly modest townhouse we lived in, or the fact that I wear make up maybe 1/mo, or anything else. So many people have these stories about people commenting, and I just don't get it because nothing like that has ever happened to me and that's certainly not because I hang out with like-minded people. Yes no one has ever insulted any of these things. I wonder why that is?
I agree with you. Do I just have less judgmental friends/acquaintances, or what?
My own experience has been that, unless you make it a point to harp on about these things, no one cares. About either frugality or lavishness. Both are just "meh" events.
Sometimes I drive a shitbox (my parents' old car), sometimes I drive a fancy car. Besides car enthusiasts no one's ever commented on my car. Sometimes I dress nicely in a suit and tie. Most of the time I go to work in track pants and a sweatshirt, and sometimes I wear the same clothes 3 or 4 days in a row cause I have a lot of pairs of track pants and grey jumpers. No one's ever commented one way or another.
I also feel a bit surprised that there's apparently so much social judgment on either extreme. I suspect for the most part if you're not drawing attention to yourself you can do whatever you like (short of going naked, or wearing royal robes, or driving a Ferrari) and not be judged.
Then again maybe it's just middle class privilege talking. The comfortable middle class like us do get to be invisible and go without judgment, more so than, say, a poor person with bad teeth and bad grammar.
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These types of threads always have me scratching my hear. Most of my friends are mainstream, in the sense that they maybe save 10% or in some cases they probably save -5%.
No one ever said anything to be about my 20 year old car. (Fairly recently upgraded to a 4 yo car that we will likely own until it's about that age, hopefully). No one cares that we only own one car. (I've gotten questions about whether it's hard, whether I feel trapped, etc., but they have always seems just curious or maybe slightly confused, not judgemental or condescending.) No one ever said anything about our fairly modest townhouse we lived in, or the fact that I wear make up maybe 1/mo, or anything else. So many people have these stories about people commenting, and I just don't get it because nothing like that has ever happened to me and that's certainly not because I hang out with like-minded people. Yes no one has ever insulted any of these things. I wonder why that is?
In our case, the judgment comes more from relatives or people we see semi-regularly but don't have "real" relationships with (coworkers, etc). We definitely don't make it a habit to befriend people like that.
Generally speaking:
If we're getting criticized for not having a car, home, or status stuff, it's coming from his parents.
If it's appearance related, probably my mom's side.
If it's restaurant/coffee/alcohol related, probably coworkers.
It's actually kind of funny how it falls neatly into categories like that.
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Choosing to not get married and have kids.
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I have to say I certainly don't feel judged now. I live in a beautiful clown house that has no mortgage. All of our cars are old-ish, but they are in good shape and excellent working order. My wardrobe isn't fancy, but it's appropriate for the stuff I do. On the occasions when we attend fancy dress events (you know, pre-Covid) I either buy dresses at consignment shops or rent them. I always choose things that go with shoes and accessories I already own. DH doesn't dress up much, but he can when he needs to, thanks to my thrift shopping and retail menswear experience. Nobody (but you guys) knows I bought his tuxedo for $35.
In the early days, part of the game for me was NOT to look like I was scrimping and saving my ass off. I think for the most part it worked. I don't remember ever being criticized. I do remember overhearing someone say "I'd hate to pay her Nordstrom bill" at a work conference. I didn't realize right away that they were talking about me. I thought it was hilarious.
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I sold plasma when I was a “poor graduate student “and I always add that I was a poor graduate student when I tell people I sell plasma. Because it is socially awkward. But at my large university there is a plasma collection center because students are good population for that. I actually didn’t need it to pay tuition, it provided my cigarette and beer money.
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Not very exciting, but I refuse to ever pay to get the car washed - and given that I do it myself about once a year, that basically means the car never gets washed.
Normally it isn't much of a problem, but our parking slot is located directly underneath the branches of a large oak tree, so during spring and summer it regularly gets covered in huge amounts of sap and tree gunk, as well as bird droppings.
I freely admit it looks disgusting and the poor thing deserves better, but it's so low on my priority list I will likely never do it. Whenever we go somewhere and park up I take perverse pride that we have usually have by far the dirtiest car in the car park.
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Not very exciting, but I refuse to ever pay to get the car washed - and given that I do it myself about once a year, that basically means the car never gets washed.
Normally it isn't much of a problem, but our parking slot is located directly underneath the branches of a large oak tree, so during spring and summer it regularly gets covered in huge amounts of sap and tree gunk, as well as bird droppings.
I freely admit it looks disgusting and the poor thing deserves better, but it's so low on my priority list I will likely never do it. Whenever we go somewhere and park up I take perverse pride that we have usually have by far the dirtiest car in the car park.
Plus, your car will never be stolen.
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Choosing to not get married and have kids.
Yeah, this is probably a big one for me too.
Though it looks like my sister is going to buy a house with her longtime boyfriend. I will not be surprised to hear she's pregnant in the next year or 2. My mother will get over it, she wants grandkids too much.
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Choosing to not get married and have kids.
Yeah, this is probably a big one for me too.
Though it looks like my sister is going to buy a house with her longtime boyfriend. I will not be surprised to hear she's pregnant in the next year or 2. My mother will get over it, she wants grandkids too much.
That's very interesting.
I'd say that finding a good wife has been the most important step along the way. She nearly doubles the household income, and economies of scale mean that expenses don't double. There's no way that I'd have a 50% savings rate without her.
And sure, kids cost money, but not as much as people seem to make them out to cost (if they're healthy). A creative mustachian can raise a kid on <$3,000/year.
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I carried my lunch most days to my Wall Street job. It caused some raised eyebrows at first, but then I had a few conversations where I pointed out that FI means you can walk if you don’t like your job. After that, people would come in my office to have me double check their retirement calculations, and coworkers would apologize for buying their lunch.
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I carried my lunch most days to my Wall Street job. It caused some raised eyebrows at first, but then I had a few conversations where I pointed out that FI means you can walk if you don’t like your job. After that, people would come in my office to have me double check their retirement calculations, and coworkers would apologize for buying their lunch.
Love this!
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Choosing to not get married and have kids.
Yeah, this is probably a big one for me too.
Though it looks like my sister is going to buy a house with her longtime boyfriend. I will not be surprised to hear she's pregnant in the next year or 2. My mother will get over it, she wants grandkids too much.
That's very interesting.
I'd say that finding a good wife has been the most important step along the way. She nearly doubles the household income, and economies of scale mean that expenses don't double. There's no way that I'd have a 50% savings rate without her.
And sure, kids cost money, but not as much as people seem to make them out to cost (if they're healthy). A creative mustachian can raise a kid on <$3,000/year.
Yeah, I'd have to say the same. My spending as a single is $40k a year. When I was in a r'ship the spending was only marginally more at $50k a year. Add a couple of kids and it'd be, what, $80k a year? Here in Australia school is free, university is deferred (so free upfront), health care is free, children's dental is free...everything's free. Except food and clothes, I guess. And childcare (although that's even subsidised for poor families).
If my partner were to earn $50k a year [the median full-time wage in Australia is $78k and the average full-time wage is $90k, so I don't think $50k a year is asking too much] then that would more than offset the "extra costs" of marriage and children.
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Choosing to not get married and have kids.
Yeah, this is probably a big one for me too.
Though it looks like my sister is going to buy a house with her longtime boyfriend. I will not be surprised to hear she's pregnant in the next year or 2. My mother will get over it, she wants grandkids too much.
That's very interesting.
I'd say that finding a good wife has been the most important step along the way. She nearly doubles the household income, and economies of scale mean that expenses don't double. There's no way that I'd have a 50% savings rate without her.
And sure, kids cost money, but not as much as people seem to make them out to cost (if they're healthy). A creative mustachian can raise a kid on <$3,000/year.
Yeah, I'd have to say the same. My spending as a single is $40k a year. When I was in a r'ship the spending was only marginally more at $50k a year. Add a couple of kids and it'd be, what, $80k a year? Here in Australia school is free, university is deferred (so free upfront), health care is free, children's dental is free...everything's free. Except food and clothes, I guess. And childcare (although that's even subsidised for poor families).
If my partner were to earn $50k a year [the median full-time wage in Australia is $78k and the average full-time wage is $90k, so I don't think $50k a year is asking too much] then that would more than offset the "extra costs" of marriage and children.
Except that not everyone wants kids, or wants to be married. Money isn't everything.
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Not very exciting, but I refuse to ever pay to get the car washed - and given that I do it myself about once a year, that basically means the car never gets washed.
Normally it isn't much of a problem, but our parking slot is located directly underneath the branches of a large oak tree, so during spring and summer it regularly gets covered in huge amounts of sap and tree gunk, as well as bird droppings.
I freely admit it looks disgusting and the poor thing deserves better, but it's so low on my priority list I will likely never do it. Whenever we go somewhere and park up I take perverse pride that we have usually have by far the dirtiest car in the car park.
I had a friend with a similar mentality. His car was white, but "for years, my in-laws thought I drove a gray car."
Unfortunately, I drive almost two miles every day on an unpaved "road" (my shitty driveway) so not washing it at least once a month is a legitimate safety hazard visibility-wise due to all the dust/mud/nonsense that accumulates.
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Not very exciting, but I refuse to ever pay to get the car washed - and given that I do it myself about once a year, that basically means the car never gets washed.
Normally it isn't much of a problem, but our parking slot is located directly underneath the branches of a large oak tree, so during spring and summer it regularly gets covered in huge amounts of sap and tree gunk, as well as bird droppings.
I freely admit it looks disgusting and the poor thing deserves better, but it's so low on my priority list I will likely never do it. Whenever we go somewhere and park up I take perverse pride that we have usually have by far the dirtiest car in the car park.
I had a friend with a similar mentality. His car was white, but "for years, my in-laws thought I drove a gray car."
Unfortunately, I drive almost two miles every day on an unpaved "road" (my shitty driveway) so not washing it at least once a month is a legitimate safety hazard visibility-wise due to all the dust/mud/nonsense that accumulates.
Park it in the rain. ;-)
And I should admit here that my car is a dusty red. Windows and lights are clean, gas stations have wash fluid and squeegees .
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Choosing to not get married and have kids.
Yeah, this is probably a big one for me too.
Though it looks like my sister is going to buy a house with her longtime boyfriend. I will not be surprised to hear she's pregnant in the next year or 2. My mother will get over it, she wants grandkids too much.
That's very interesting.
I'd say that finding a good wife has been the most important step along the way. She nearly doubles the household income, and economies of scale mean that expenses don't double. There's no way that I'd have a 50% savings rate without her.
And sure, kids cost money, but not as much as people seem to make them out to cost (if they're healthy). A creative mustachian can raise a kid on <$3,000/year.
Yeah, I'd have to say the same. My spending as a single is $40k a year. When I was in a r'ship the spending was only marginally more at $50k a year. Add a couple of kids and it'd be, what, $80k a year? Here in Australia school is free, university is deferred (so free upfront), health care is free, children's dental is free...everything's free. Except food and clothes, I guess. And childcare (although that's even subsidised for poor families).
If my partner were to earn $50k a year [the median full-time wage in Australia is $78k and the average full-time wage is $90k, so I don't think $50k a year is asking too much] then that would more than offset the "extra costs" of marriage and children.
Except that not everyone wants kids, or wants to be married. Money isn't everything.
Yeah, I feel like the decision to have kids or not is not generally based on money, unless you truly can't afford it. There are many other factors that go into it. I don't know what they are, because I have three kids, but I know people usually put more thought into than just "I would have so much more money if I didn't have kids."
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Choosing to not get married and have kids.
Yeah, this is probably a big one for me too.
Though it looks like my sister is going to buy a house with her longtime boyfriend. I will not be surprised to hear she's pregnant in the next year or 2. My mother will get over it, she wants grandkids too much.
That's very interesting.
I'd say that finding a good wife has been the most important step along the way. She nearly doubles the household income, and economies of scale mean that expenses don't double. There's no way that I'd have a 50% savings rate without her.
And sure, kids cost money, but not as much as people seem to make them out to cost (if they're healthy). A creative mustachian can raise a kid on <$3,000/year.
Yeah, I'd have to say the same. My spending as a single is $40k a year. When I was in a r'ship the spending was only marginally more at $50k a year. Add a couple of kids and it'd be, what, $80k a year? Here in Australia school is free, university is deferred (so free upfront), health care is free, children's dental is free...everything's free. Except food and clothes, I guess. And childcare (although that's even subsidised for poor families).
If my partner were to earn $50k a year [the median full-time wage in Australia is $78k and the average full-time wage is $90k, so I don't think $50k a year is asking too much] then that would more than offset the "extra costs" of marriage and children.
Except that not everyone wants kids, or wants to be married. Money isn't everything.
Right, but in the context of this thread about what is something you've done to cut expenses...
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When I first moved to Nevada for a job everyone was in their 40’s and single. I had just gotten a divorce and bought a small 2 bedroom older condo. Everyone told me I made a mistake and should have bought a house. They were all house poor and had no money for vacations and other things. My mortgage was less than half of theirs. We buy our cars either new or slightly used and drive them until dead. People have asked when are we replacing them.
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Choosing to not get married and have kids.
Yeah, this is probably a big one for me too.
Though it looks like my sister is going to buy a house with her longtime boyfriend. I will not be surprised to hear she's pregnant in the next year or 2. My mother will get over it, she wants grandkids too much.
That's very interesting.
I'd say that finding a good wife has been the most important step along the way. She nearly doubles the household income, and economies of scale mean that expenses don't double. There's no way that I'd have a 50% savings rate without her.
And sure, kids cost money, but not as much as people seem to make them out to cost (if they're healthy). A creative mustachian can raise a kid on <$3,000/year.
Yeah, I'd have to say the same. My spending as a single is $40k a year. When I was in a r'ship the spending was only marginally more at $50k a year. Add a couple of kids and it'd be, what, $80k a year? Here in Australia school is free, university is deferred (so free upfront), health care is free, children's dental is free...everything's free. Except food and clothes, I guess. And childcare (although that's even subsidised for poor families).
If my partner were to earn $50k a year [the median full-time wage in Australia is $78k and the average full-time wage is $90k, so I don't think $50k a year is asking too much] then that would more than offset the "extra costs" of marriage and children.
Except that not everyone wants kids, or wants to be married. Money isn't everything.
I don’t know anyone with kids who thought it moved them ahead financially. Dowries are pretty uncommon in these parts..
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Not very exciting, but I refuse to ever pay to get the car washed - and given that I do it myself about once a year, that basically means the car never gets washed.
Normally it isn't much of a problem, but our parking slot is located directly underneath the branches of a large oak tree, so during spring and summer it regularly gets covered in huge amounts of sap and tree gunk, as well as bird droppings.
I freely admit it looks disgusting and the poor thing deserves better, but it's so low on my priority list I will likely never do it. Whenever we go somewhere and park up I take perverse pride that we have usually have by far the dirtiest car in the car park.
I don't care a whit if my vehicles are "dirty."
The ONLY thing I care about is their reliability.
The last vehicle I bought was brand new right from the dealer.
I think I've washed it 2X.
I'll drive it till it dies and then buy another new one.
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Not very exciting, but I refuse to ever pay to get the car washed - and given that I do it myself about once a year, that basically means the car never gets washed.
Normally it isn't much of a problem, but our parking slot is located directly underneath the branches of a large oak tree, so during spring and summer it regularly gets covered in huge amounts of sap and tree gunk, as well as bird droppings.
I freely admit it looks disgusting and the poor thing deserves better, but it's so low on my priority list I will likely never do it. Whenever we go somewhere and park up I take perverse pride that we have usually have by far the dirtiest car in the car park.
I don't care a whit if my vehicles are "dirty."
The ONLY thing I care about is their reliability.
The last vehicle I bought was brand new right from the dealer.
I think I've washed it 2X.
I'll drive it till it dies and then buy another new one.
I think I'll go make some popcorn...
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I'm considering buying a cheap house in the middle of nowhere in order to become FI immediately. That would probably be the least socially acceptable thing I've ever done.
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I'm considering buying a cheap house in the middle of nowhere in order to become FI immediately. That would probably be the least socially acceptable thing I've ever done.
I consider this every day!
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I'm not as frugal as you are but for many years we drove an old car and some kids keyed all the cars on our street pretty badly. We never bothered getting it repainted, that would have cost hundreds. That seemed to bother people to no end.
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I'm considering buying a cheap house in the middle of nowhere in order to become FI immediately. That would probably be the least socially acceptable thing I've ever done.
On the plus side, if you are living in the middle of nowhere, there's no one to judge what's socially acceptable ;)
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I'm considering buying a cheap house in the middle of nowhere in order to become FI immediately. That would probably be the least socially acceptable thing I've ever done.
On the plus side, if you are living in the middle of nowhere, there's no one to judge what's socially acceptable ;)
I actually have considered this. I live in a modest home, but most of the other homes in my neighborhood and half a mile up the road are mcmansions. I actually think there would be value in living in an area where there wouldn't be as much worry about keeping up with the joneses. Not that I worry about that very much, but sometimes it creeps in. I'm slightly jealous of my SILs home, but not jealous of her mortgage payment and prop taxes! I'm pretty sure her property taxes are more than my whole mortgage.
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I've gotten the raised eyebrow when out with coworkers or not-so-close friends when I don't drink booze. It was odd seeing that people got weirded out about it. It's not really an expense thing, I just don't care for alcohol. People like to assume I'm a recovering alcoholic or religious fanatic (I've heard the whispers). My actual friends and family either also don't drink or don't care.
The other one is that my Dad and I both used to get a lot of crap from family (including my Mom) because we kept cars for a long time. We're both reasonably capable DIYers and able to keep a vehicle running a long time. Usually rust is the final cause of death when it gets too bad to fix or poses a safety issue. My car MO is to buy them lightly used and be diligent about upkeep so they last as long as possible. At the moment, my cars are 8, 14, 30 years old. The 30 y/o is driveable but a project car that hasn't gotten the attention it deserves lately. The other two are probably not even 1/2 way through their expected life with me.
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I've gotten the raised eyebrow when out with coworkers or not-so-close friends when I don't drink booze. It was odd seeing that people got weirded out about it. It's not really an expense thing, I just don't care for alcohol. People like to assume I'm a recovering alcoholic or religious fanatic (I've heard the whispers). My actual friends and family either also don't drink or don't care.
The alcohol thing is so freaking stupid. I've never drank or had any desire to. If people act weird/pushy about it, I generally assume they're a closet alcoholic trying to make themselves feel better. I might or might not have expressed that opinion to a few people. It's honestly kind of mind-blowing to me that people even notice/care that they're having a glass of wine while I'm having a glass of soda.
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I'm considering buying a cheap house in the middle of nowhere in order to become FI immediately. That would probably be the least socially acceptable thing I've ever done.
On the plus side, if you are living in the middle of nowhere, there's no one to judge what's socially acceptable ;)
I actually have considered this. I live in a modest home, but most of the other homes in my neighborhood and half a mile up the road are mcmansions. I actually think there would be value in living in an area where there wouldn't be as much worry about keeping up with the joneses. Not that I worry about that very much, but sometimes it creeps in. I'm slightly jealous of my SILs home, but not jealous of her mortgage payment and prop taxes! I'm pretty sure her property taxes are more than my whole mortgage.
That's why I like living in a working class neighbourhood. I work and socialize with a lot of very wealthy people, I don't need to live among them as well.
Living where I live is *by far* the least socially acceptable thing about my lifestyle choices. People visibly cringe when I say where I live, but I love it here.
Before, when I started making a big income, I lived in the *most* expensive neighbourhood in the city, and the neighbourly "Joneses" politics drove me fucking batty.
It's very easy to get affected by the "norms" of where you live.
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I've gotten the raised eyebrow when out with coworkers or not-so-close friends when I don't drink booze. It was odd seeing that people got weirded out about it. It's not really an expense thing, I just don't care for alcohol. People like to assume I'm a recovering alcoholic or religious fanatic (I've heard the whispers). My actual friends and family either also don't drink or don't care.
The alcohol thing is so freaking stupid. I've never drank or had any desire to. If people act weird/pushy about it, I generally assume they're a closet alcoholic trying to make themselves feel better. I might or might not have expressed that opinion to a few people. It's honestly kind of mind-blowing to me that people even notice/care that they're having a glass of wine while I'm having a glass of soda.
I was a wine lover, but quit drinking for a drug trial, and people's reactions can be super strange. I mean, I quit beef and sugar for a few years and nobody blinked an eye. I weirdly stopped being able to digest them, out of nowhere, and rarely ever had to explain that to anyone.
I would just say "I don't eat beef or sugar" and almost nobody cared why and assumed it was some kind of new diet because I was losing weight at the time.
Now, when I say I don't drink, I might as well say that I'm choosing to have an eye removed. Most people are like "OMG! WHY??!!!"
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Not very exciting, but I refuse to ever pay to get the car washed - and given that I do it myself about once a year, that basically means the car never gets washed.
Normally it isn't much of a problem, but our parking slot is located directly underneath the branches of a large oak tree, so during spring and summer it regularly gets covered in huge amounts of sap and tree gunk, as well as bird droppings.
I freely admit it looks disgusting and the poor thing deserves better, but it's so low on my priority list I will likely never do it. Whenever we go somewhere and park up I take perverse pride that we have usually have by far the dirtiest car in the car park.
Plus, your car will never be stolen.
Do me a favor - check that all your light bulbs work. I saw a similar car in traffic the other day. I don't think the owner ever gave it two thoughts but none of the brake lights worked except one tiny bulb in the middle brake light. Every decade or so some person will give me a startle when they slow quickly and there are no functional brake lights!
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Not very exciting, but I refuse to ever pay to get the car washed - and given that I do it myself about once a year, that basically means the car never gets washed.
Normally it isn't much of a problem, but our parking slot is located directly underneath the branches of a large oak tree, so during spring and summer it regularly gets covered in huge amounts of sap and tree gunk, as well as bird droppings.
I freely admit it looks disgusting and the poor thing deserves better, but it's so low on my priority list I will likely never do it. Whenever we go somewhere and park up I take perverse pride that we have usually have by far the dirtiest car in the car park.
I've always figured that dirt forms a protective layer over the paint. :P
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Not very exciting, but I refuse to ever pay to get the car washed - and given that I do it myself about once a year, that basically means the car never gets washed.
Normally it isn't much of a problem, but our parking slot is located directly underneath the branches of a large oak tree, so during spring and summer it regularly gets covered in huge amounts of sap and tree gunk, as well as bird droppings.
I freely admit it looks disgusting and the poor thing deserves better, but it's so low on my priority list I will likely never do it. Whenever we go somewhere and park up I take perverse pride that we have usually have by far the dirtiest car in the car park.
Paint isn't just cosmetic. It's there to protect your vehicle from corrosion which can seriously damage the vehicle and sabotage its longevity. Not just body panels but structural elements as well. Its basic maintenance. Especially if you live in an area that uses road salt. Gotta get that shit off of it'll rust out your car in short order.
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Not very exciting, but I refuse to ever pay to get the car washed - and given that I do it myself about once a year, that basically means the car never gets washed.
Normally it isn't much of a problem, but our parking slot is located directly underneath the branches of a large oak tree, so during spring and summer it regularly gets covered in huge amounts of sap and tree gunk, as well as bird droppings.
I freely admit it looks disgusting and the poor thing deserves better, but it's so low on my priority list I will likely never do it. Whenever we go somewhere and park up I take perverse pride that we have usually have by far the dirtiest car in the car park.
Paint isn't just cosmetic. It's there to protect your vehicle from corrosion which can seriously damage the vehicle and sabotage its longevity. Not just body panels but structural elements as well. Its basic maintenance. Especially if you live in an area that uses road salt. Gotta get that shit off of it'll rust out your car in short order.
Yeah, this. In Minnesota, not washing your car forever isn’t frugal, it’s dumb.
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Choosing to not get married and have kids.
Yeah, this is probably a big one for me too.
Though it looks like my sister is going to buy a house with her longtime boyfriend. I will not be surprised to hear she's pregnant in the next year or 2. My mother will get over it, she wants grandkids too much.
That's very interesting.
I'd say that finding a good wife has been the most important step along the way. She nearly doubles the household income, and economies of scale mean that expenses don't double. There's no way that I'd have a 50% savings rate without her.
And sure, kids cost money, but not as much as people seem to make them out to cost (if they're healthy). A creative mustachian can raise a kid on <$3,000/year.
Yeah, I'd have to say the same. My spending as a single is $40k a year. When I was in a r'ship the spending was only marginally more at $50k a year. Add a couple of kids and it'd be, what, $80k a year? Here in Australia school is free, university is deferred (so free upfront), health care is free, children's dental is free...everything's free. Except food and clothes, I guess. And childcare (although that's even subsidised for poor families).
If my partner were to earn $50k a year [the median full-time wage in Australia is $78k and the average full-time wage is $90k, so I don't think $50k a year is asking too much] then that would more than offset the "extra costs" of marriage and children.
Except that not everyone wants kids, or wants to be married. Money isn't everything.
I don’t know anyone with kids who thought it moved them ahead financially. Dowries are pretty uncommon in these parts..
While not having kids is almost always cheaper than having kids in the modern era, the expense of kids is vastly overblown.
* In the USA: $2,000/year off your tax bill for each one, that covers pretty much all the extra food.
* You can hack the EITC in semi-FIRE = get a few thousand more off your taxes (show $30-50k of income as a household a year in the USA with 2-3 kids), you can have a negative tax rate... Uncle Sam pays you! If you make more, you can 'shelter' the income for the purposes of this calculation via 401k contributions or other methods.
* The tax code favors married couples who have a single income earner. Known as the "marriage bonus". It becomes a "marriage penalty" if both spouses work and make roughtly the same (comparing what the total tax bill would have been if everyone filed single. This along with daycare costs HEAVILY incentives one parent to stay at home (and that stay at home spouse can still have $6000/yr contributed to a ROTH-IRA even if they don't make a dime).
* public school Is free of course
* hack the FAFSA to help with college by being retired and own your home outright and all your assets in tax advantaged accounts (spend down your taxable accounts before kids get to be 17). The system will calculate you as being POOR as it doesn't look at your house and retirement account values, only your regular accounts and your incomes for a given year. The poorer the system thinks you are the more grants, work-study, and subsidized student loans you get by pushing way down the "expected parental contribution" calculation.
* live in a state with low "in-state" cost public universities. If kid wants an out of state public school, move there a year (length varies by state) before = in-state tuition.
* depending on your state you could probably hack WIC/Medicaid/EBT, I don't know this one its basically impossible in my state.
* A low post-FIRE income = cheap Obamacare and the price is the same regardless of # of kids for the family plan.
Now, if you go about buying a big SUV, bigger house, FT daycare, private school... yeah they will be expensive AF
NONE of those things are necessary, and I think the "FIRE with kids" is a good way to generate teh outrage at your life choices:
examples:
A neighbor, a road cyclist, commented "are you sure that's safe" seeing my bike the kid around in the bike trailer (if you are not safe on a bike, you are not safe in a car).
Openly admitting to colleagues (in discussing where to live in town) that I don't actually care all that much about school ranking and picking my neighborhood more on my ability to have a very short commute and convenience to daily needs (allowing more time for parenting). Id rather my kid actually go to like a 7/10 school which usually means "there are poor kids here" nothing more.
I'm of the mindset that a successful education is just as much the parents' involvement as the teachers. I think a private school education (around here) would cause more problems because now my kid is going to school with only rich priviledged kids and will grow up in a total bubble (affluenza). I also think raising a kid in a far flung suburb (because muh schools) where they cannot get to anything without relying on mom and dad to drive them there is a TERRIBLE fate for a child. I want them to be able to walk or bike to go do things on their own (including going to school) with friends much like "the good old days" when people let their kids outside to go play and didn't have to play supervisor. (get me going about "where to live in town" and THIS will come out of me as to why I feel so strongly to live where I live, because finding this sort of thing in the USA is hard)
That mindset is pretty damn unpopular, btw.
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Choosing to not get married and have kids.
Yeah, this is probably a big one for me too.
Though it looks like my sister is going to buy a house with her longtime boyfriend. I will not be surprised to hear she's pregnant in the next year or 2. My mother will get over it, she wants grandkids too much.
That's very interesting.
I'd say that finding a good wife has been the most important step along the way. She nearly doubles the household income, and economies of scale mean that expenses don't double. There's no way that I'd have a 50% savings rate without her.
And sure, kids cost money, but not as much as people seem to make them out to cost (if they're healthy). A creative mustachian can raise a kid on <$3,000/year.
I actually found that in some years, my tax savings were more than my spending on my child (because at the time i was poor enough to take the earned income credit.) I found that the big cost with having a child was the amount of time that it took, which meant less time to be able to earn money.
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Not very exciting, but I refuse to ever pay to get the car washed - and given that I do it myself about once a year, that basically means the car never gets washed.
Normally it isn't much of a problem, but our parking slot is located directly underneath the branches of a large oak tree, so during spring and summer it regularly gets covered in huge amounts of sap and tree gunk, as well as bird droppings.
I freely admit it looks disgusting and the poor thing deserves better, but it's so low on my priority list I will likely never do it. Whenever we go somewhere and park up I take perverse pride that we have usually have by far the dirtiest car in the car park.
Plus, your car will never be stolen.
No, because cars are most often stolen for parts. Our car that was stolen was an unwashed Ford Pinto of the most basic sort. I’m still ticked about it 40 years later.
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Really, the only thing that anyone seemed to raise an eyebrow over was not moving to the Good School District - which of course means basically “upper middle class white kids”. It was a good choice for us.
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I am married and don't have kids, by choice. It would never occur to me to list that in this thread (except in response to the thread drift convo) because it's not something I've done TO cut expenses, which is the question asked. It's something I did that did end up cutting expenses, but that wasn't why I did it. They are related causally, but only as a happy consequence, not a motivating factor. I choose not to have kids and cut expenses. I didn't choose not to have kids to cut expenses.
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Really, the only thing that anyone seemed to raise an eyebrow over was not moving to the Good School District - which of course means basically “upper middle class white kids”. It was a good choice for us.
Seems like around here the difference between average schools and “the good schools” is about $100,000 extra home price and an extra 25 mile commute.
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Really, the only thing that anyone seemed to raise an eyebrow over was not moving to the Good School District - which of course means basically “upper middle class white kids”. It was a good choice for us.
Seems like around here the difference between average schools and “the good schools” is about $100,000 extra home price and an extra 25 mile commute.
Here it's $35,000 a year. Imagine what you could buy with that.
I've yet to see any study that shows throwing your kid into a rich school has any lasting effects beyond school. Your child might, by virtue of being spoon-fed and generally well-prepped, get a slightly better high school result, but that doesn't translate to success at university.
And that ignores the fact that if you really care about your kid's education, $35,000 a year buys a lot of private tuition/enrichment activities if you want to go down that path. Or if your kid's that dumb, $35,000 a year can bribe a lot of university officials.
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...women and makeup...
When my wife was in high school she competed in debate at the national level. One time a judge remarked that she should learn how to wear it. The judge said nothing about her actual performance, just that her natural appearance was somehow detrimental. To this day you can count on your fingers the number of times each year she breaks out that makeup kit, and even then it's rarely more than a thin layer of powder. As an adult I don't think I've ever seen or heard of anyone remarking on her lack of makeup.
...furniture dumpster diving...
My entire college town's economy runs on this model. The week immediately after finals and immediately before school starting you could reliably drive up and down the residential streets and "go shopping." The Korean apartment I'm living in has an area near the dumpsters where you can stack discarded furniture and appliances. There's nothing wrong with half of it, or it can be easily repaired. If I was in a position to accumulate more "stuff" or if they had a type of Craiglist here I'd be tempted to scoop it up and flip it. I'd get some odd looks from my fellow American neighbors though.
I don't get any remarks or dirty looks about it, but I'm stingy when it comes to group eating out events or office gift giving for a departing person, especially if I barely know them. At my rank it's "expected" that whenever the donation hat is passed around I'm supposed to chip in every time, and a larger share than anyone else. I don't like eating out, I don't like parties, and I don't like being pressured into spending money. Once I was accused of being Jewish for having this outlook. If there's a potluck I will bring something because eating other people's food without contributing is a shitty thing to do, IMO. Also, everyone looks to me to eat all the leftovers anyways since my metabolism can afford it.
At my current job I ride my bike nearly every day rain or shine. While I've never had anyone sneer at me, I get a lot of "I could never do that" or "you're brave (and possibly insane)." Here in Korea it's acceptable and common enough. The "insane" looks and comments increase substantially when I do it in the US.
I got a few "why aren't you living the American Dream" remarks from a former boss who couldn't understand why I didn't spend my entire paycheck on a giant shiny vehicle or buy a house every time we moved. This pops up every now and then from others, but it's limited to a very small demographic of people I see.
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Really, the only thing that anyone seemed to raise an eyebrow over was not moving to the Good School District - which of course means basically “upper middle class white kids”. It was a good choice for us.
Seems like around here the difference between average schools and “the good schools” is about $100,000 extra home price and an extra 25 mile commute.
Here it's $35,000 a year. Imagine what you could buy with that.
I've yet to see any study that shows throwing your kid into a rich school has any lasting effects beyond school. Your child might, by virtue of being spoon-fed and generally well-prepped, get a slightly better high school result, but that doesn't translate to success at university.
And that ignores the fact that if you really care about your kid's education, $35,000 a year buys a lot of private tuition/enrichment activities if you want to go down that path. Or if your kid's that dumb, $35,000 a year can bribe a lot of university officials.
Really? have you actually tried researching that? ALL the data shows that good schools send a much higher proportion of their students to university and especially to the top universities than average schools.
In the UK it's easy to verify this pattern; I'd assume that with the US system you could do similarly.
This doesn't automatically mean that those schools are doing a better job at educating their students - correlation doesn't equal causation - but if I was hoping for my kids to get ahead academically I'd be joining up the dots and thinking about trying to get them into one of those schools and in so doing making whatever other environmental changes in their lives that are correlated with a more distinguished academic record.
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"Good" schools send more kids to uni partly because they have better students to begin with. They cherrypick smart students and give them scholarships; they otherwise intake high SES students. So obviously they're dealing with a high talent base to begin with.
Then, yes, through spoon-feeding and diligent rorting of the system, they get their students somewhat better marks than shitty public schools. But those better marks achieved by good schools don't correlate with uni performance. There are multiple studies cited in this article:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-14/study-finds-no-academic-edge-for-private-school-students/6390936?nw=0
So if you're paying $180,000 over six years for your child to attend private school, the higher marks won't do anything for them other than getting them into uni. And if all you want for your child is to get into the right uni course, then $180k can, like I said, bribe a lot of uni officials. Or pay for a lot of test-tuition. Or here in Australia you can literally just pay for your slightly dumb kid to get into the course. E.g. my uni course had a cut off of 99.50 for Commonwealth-subsidised places ($7k a year) but if you wanted to pay $25k up-front a year for the "full-fee" course you only needed an ATAR score of 95 haha.
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Just to be the contrarian here (I'm feeling that way today). Our local rural HS was good academically. But it was known for the drugs even though the small town it was in was high income, and so few classes were in French that the benefits of being in French immersion in elementary school would be lost. The local French HS was known for its bad academics. We sent DD to a private French HS and for $3500/year she got great academics, good extracurricular activities, and graduated fluently bilingual. The fluently bilingual meant she never had trouble finding part time jobs during university, and she uses French all the time at her present job. We figure its the best $14000 we ever spent on her.
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Regarding schools, I think there are "bad schools" and there are bad schools. I'm in the UK but I went to a "good school" as a teen and was working in schools at one point a couple of years ago including in a very poorly performing school. The sheer magnitude of behaviour problems in the poorly performing school compared to my own school and even the sort-of-ok schools I worked in was astounding. I'm not convinced any of the children were learning anything in that one school, and I suspect a number of the students there probably found it actively an unsafe environment.
This doesn't mean I think you need to send your kids to a private school or even to move to the good school district. But do visit the school you're thinking about sending your kids to and check for things like kids getting into frequent physical fights, etc.
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I'm considering buying a cheap house in the middle of nowhere in order to become FI immediately. That would probably be the least socially acceptable thing I've ever done.
On the plus side, if you are living in the middle of nowhere, there's no one to judge what's socially acceptable ;)
I actually have considered this. I live in a modest home, but most of the other homes in my neighborhood and half a mile up the road are mcmansions. I actually think there would be value in living in an area where there wouldn't be as much worry about keeping up with the joneses. Not that I worry about that very much, but sometimes it creeps in. I'm slightly jealous of my SILs home, but not jealous of her mortgage payment and prop taxes! I'm pretty sure her property taxes are more than my whole mortgage.
That's why I like living in a working class neighbourhood. I work and socialize with a lot of very wealthy people, I don't need to live among them as well.
Living where I live is *by far* the least socially acceptable thing about my lifestyle choices. People visibly cringe when I say where I live, but I love it here.
Before, when I started making a big income, I lived in the *most* expensive neighbourhood in the city, and the neighbourly "Joneses" politics drove me fucking batty.
It's very easy to get affected by the "norms" of where you live.
Yes, it is. I've also noticed that I have a tendency to get down on myself when I look at all the expensive houses in my area and think about how those folks must have more money/better jobs than me. I would never spend $500k on a house, but I do think it would be nice to have the means to spend $500k on a house. And that's when I start down the road of comparing myself to them and wondering: why don't I have their resources, what I could have done differently, why has my career been so average when I have such a good degree? This type of thinking isn't exactly helpful for the psyche.
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I'm considering buying a cheap house in the middle of nowhere in order to become FI immediately. That would probably be the least socially acceptable thing I've ever done.
On the plus side, if you are living in the middle of nowhere, there's no one to judge what's socially acceptable ;)
I actually have considered this. I live in a modest home, but most of the other homes in my neighborhood and half a mile up the road are mcmansions. I actually think there would be value in living in an area where there wouldn't be as much worry about keeping up with the joneses. Not that I worry about that very much, but sometimes it creeps in. I'm slightly jealous of my SILs home, but not jealous of her mortgage payment and prop taxes! I'm pretty sure her property taxes are more than my whole mortgage.
That's why I like living in a working class neighbourhood. I work and socialize with a lot of very wealthy people, I don't need to live among them as well.
Living where I live is *by far* the least socially acceptable thing about my lifestyle choices. People visibly cringe when I say where I live, but I love it here.
Before, when I started making a big income, I lived in the *most* expensive neighbourhood in the city, and the neighbourly "Joneses" politics drove me fucking batty.
It's very easy to get affected by the "norms" of where you live.
Yes, it is. I've also noticed that I have a tendency to get down on myself when I look at all the expensive houses in my area and think about how those folks must have more money/better jobs than me. I would never spend $500k on a house, but I do think it would be nice to have the means to spend $500k on a house. And that's when I start down the road of comparing myself to them and wondering: why don't I have their resources, what I could have done differently, why has my career been so average when I have such a good degree? This type of thinking isn't exactly helpful for the psyche.
No, no it really isn't.
If there's a bigger underlying issue of dissatisfaction with your life and career, then I would focus more on resolving that than anything else.
I spend a lot of time with people much wealthier than I am and I don't feel envious, but that's because I'm quite happy with my level of accomplishment and our household income. I don't see better lives, I just see very different life paths and choices.
If you aren't happy with what you have, then that's not really solvable by trying to avoid people who have what you see as more.
I prefer not to live in upper middle class communities because I dislike the culture of wealth comparison, not because the comparison makes me feel bad.
If you are feeling self conscious about yourself, then that's a big mental health red flag, and I would be looking at that closely for how to resolve it.
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Really, the only thing that anyone seemed to raise an eyebrow over was not moving to the Good School District - which of course means basically “upper middle class white kids”. It was a good choice for us.
Seems like around here the difference between average schools and “the good schools” is about $100,000 extra home price and an extra 25 mile commute.
Here it's $35,000 a year. Imagine what you could buy with that.
I've yet to see any study that shows throwing your kid into a rich school has any lasting effects beyond school. Your child might, by virtue of being spoon-fed and generally well-prepped, get a slightly better high school result, but that doesn't translate to success at university.
And that ignores the fact that if you really care about your kid's education, $35,000 a year buys a lot of private tuition/enrichment activities if you want to go down that path. Or if your kid's that dumb, $35,000 a year can bribe a lot of university officials.
Really? have you actually tried researching that? ALL the data shows that good schools send a much higher proportion of their students to university and especially to the top universities than average schools.
In the UK it's easy to verify this pattern; I'd assume that with the US system you could do similarly.
This doesn't automatically mean that those schools are doing a better job at educating their students - correlation doesn't equal causation - but if I was hoping for my kids to get ahead academically I'd be joining up the dots and thinking about trying to get them into one of those schools and in so doing making whatever other environmental changes in their lives that are correlated with a more distinguished academic record.
“Good schools” send a lot of kids to college because those kids are largely upper middle class white kids. It’s not the school, it’s the kids, and what they take with them to school.
And in the US, “good schools” are largely defined by test scores.
My kids had all the academic advantages - a bookish academic family. Stability. They went to the “poor school” and got great test scores. They got college degrees. And they learned a lot about what it was like for people who didn’t have those advantages.
I feel like I’ve found the line people aren’t willing to cross. LOL
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When it comes to college/university, I’m genuinely curious what sort of difference it makes for the vast majority of careers to go to a “top” school rather than a state school? How often are asked where you went to school? How often do you ask others where they went to school? For instance I have 43 direct reports at one of my jobs and the full care team is 65. I know where exactly one of them went to school and that’s because we are friends outside of work. At another of my jobs the team is about 50 and I know where none of them went to school.
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When it comes to college/university, I’m genuinely curious what sort of difference it makes for the vast majority of careers to go to a “top” school rather than a state school? How often are asked where you went to school? How often do you ask others where they went to school? For instance I have 43 direct reports at one of my jobs and the full care team is 65. I know where exactly one of them went to school and that’s because we are friends outside of work. At another of my jobs the team is about 50 and I know where none of them went to school.
From my perspective, it mostly matters in terms of networking, not necessarily the education itself.
An ex and a friend were both doing MBAs at the same time, one at an insanely expensive "elite" school and the other online. The difference in education was negligible, but their career trajections were miles apart because the elite school not only directly networked him with the faculty and business partners, but also the other students and their families.
Late night group project work with the son of the guy whose name is on the school will open far more doors than any actual quality of education.
Even at the high school level it can make a difference. I went to an elite highschool with a largely wealthy student population, and growing up knowing those kids' parents has been a huge resource for me, and now most of those kids have grown up into those same types of roles. This means I know hundreds of people in high level positions, just because of where I went to highschool.
DH is angling for a position in a certain company and because of school connections, I happen to know the president.
So if someone is going to prioritize their kid going to "good schools" then they should also prioritize teaching their kid how networking works.
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My husband got his PhD at an Ivy League University. One of his fellow students was the grandchild of a US President. Others had family members whose names were on building on campus. We never met anyone of that social group at our state university where we got our undergrad degrees. I think networking can be an important part of attending Ivies, but probably more in business and not academics, which is what my husband does. Too bad my husband is not a schmoozer and does not participate in that kind of thing. All we got out of knowing those people was a nice friendship.
edited to add: I forgot the subject of this thread and I have one. We are sending our son to community college this fall, even though we get free tuition at the expensive university we work at. The fees at our university are almost $5000 per year. Our son got a scholarship at the community collage, and even if he hadn't, the tuition and fees would still be cheaper than sending him to our university. People look at us in horror when we tell them where son is going to school this year. So instead of the $65,000 a year for the "University Experience" most people pay, our son will live at home, work part time and we will pay a few hundred for his first year of college. Both are online or hybrid this year anyway.
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Not very exciting, but I refuse to ever pay to get the car washed - and given that I do it myself about once a year, that basically means the car never gets washed.
Normally it isn't much of a problem, but our parking slot is located directly underneath the branches of a large oak tree, so during spring and summer it regularly gets covered in huge amounts of sap and tree gunk, as well as bird droppings.
I freely admit it looks disgusting and the poor thing deserves better, but it's so low on my priority list I will likely never do it. Whenever we go somewhere and park up I take perverse pride that we have usually have by far the dirtiest car in the car park.
Plus, your car will never be stolen.
No, because cars are most often stolen for parts. Our car that was stolen was an unwashed Ford Pinto of the most basic sort. I’m still ticked about it 40 years later.
Yep, the most stolen vehicles are those that are very popular but out of warranty. Much, much easier to move stolen parts than an entire vehicle. And cars that are in warranty don't need second hand parts.
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I will concede that I sent my kids to school and college to get an education, not to develop a business network. ;-)
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I will concede that I sent my kids to school and college to get an education, not to develop a business network. ;-)
Which is perfectly fine.
My point is that if someone is contemplating spending a fortune on 'elite' schools, then it's important to understand what value they're actually trying to pay for and assuming that better student outcomes equals superior education.
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Just don't be that person...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghL6NE3UM3A
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Regarding schools, I think there are "bad schools" and there are bad schools. I'm in the UK but I went to a "good school" as a teen and was working in schools at one point a couple of years ago including in a very poorly performing school. The sheer magnitude of behaviour problems in the poorly performing school compared to my own school and even the sort-of-ok schools I worked in was astounding. I'm not convinced any of the children were learning anything in that one school, and I suspect a number of the students there probably found it actively an unsafe environment.
This doesn't mean I think you need to send your kids to a private school or even to move to the good school district. But do visit the school you're thinking about sending your kids to and check for things like kids getting into frequent physical fights, etc.
It was a long time ago now, but I went to a sub-standard comprehensive for the first 5 years of secondary education, and then to a selective school for 6th form, and in my experience the difference is like night and day. In the comprehensive I was pretty much top 2% just on ability and didn't have to work all that hard to stay there. In the selective I was average and had to work my balls off to occassionally poke my head above the average mark.
In the Selective they don't give you a choice - you work hard to a level they are are satisfied with,... or they get your parents in, have a meaningful discussion, and kick you out if you don't shape up pretty fast. In the comprehensive they take on those kicked out of other schools. In the Selective the standards are higher in virtually all aspects - in teaching, governance, in student ability, and in expectations. From my observations those standards carry through to higher education and into adulthood.
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Not very sure if it counts as "socially unacceptable" or not, but...
We have completely stopped eating out since the start of the pandemic. We do takeout once in a while, very infrequently - but that's it!!
We used to eat out a LOT 10 years ago. From there we reduced to 2-3 times a month in 2019, and almost completely stopped eating out since the start of the pandemic.
I don't use facebook, DW does. She posted something like "see we got our first take-out-restaurant food in a month". And someone responded in CAPS "you are the reason all the restaurant workers are losing their jobs".
WTF??!!
I guess not eating out counts as "socially unacceptable" for some people!!
[Context: Some local restaurants have banded together and trying to survive by appealing to anyone local via all possible media. I get their emails. I guess they have some over-enthusiastic bloke who thinks yelling at possible guests is a good policy.]
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Not very sure if it counts as "socially unacceptable" or not, but...
We have completely stopped eating out since the start of the pandemic. We do takeout once in a while, very infrequently - but that's it!!
We used to eat out a LOT 10 years ago. From there we reduced to 2-3 times a month in 2019, and almost completely stopped eating out since the start of the pandemic.
I don't use facebook, DW does. She posted something like "see we got our first take-out-restaurant food in a month". And someone responded in CAPS "you are the reason all the restaurant workers are losing their jobs".
WTF??!!
I guess not eating out counts as "socially unacceptable" for some people!!
[Context: Some local restaurants have banded together and trying to survive by appealing to anyone local via all possible media. I get their emails. I guess they have some over-enthusiastic bloke who thinks yelling at possible guests is a good policy.]
We haven't eaten out since mid-Feb. We'd done takeout maybe 10 times? I know it's unmustachian, but for us, part of moving to the place we lived was walking to amazing restaurants. We ate out probably 2-3 times a week.
But, I'm 45 years old and I commented to my mother the other day that Covid is what finally made me learn to cook. I could follow a recipe, but figuring out what to make was always overwhelming, never mind decided on a side that made sense and dealing with any substitutions required. Covid caused us to start Hello Fresh and over time, I was able to see patterns and realize some basic concepts. It sounds stupid, but something clicked. Oh, I can take most meats (pork or chicken preferred) and mix in some tomato paste, chicken stock, and cream cheese or sour cream and some spices, and I have a sauce I can dump over pasta? I now have a handful of things I can make with whatever I have on hand, and a binder full of recipes I can easily make (and I feel comfortable making substitutions now, too). Hello Fresh isn't cheap or mustachian, but it did the impossible and now I'm finally making good, not-heavily processed meals from home, using up leftovers in appetizing ways, and saving a ton of money.
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Wow, good for you!
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I feel kind of guilty that I can't think of anything I want from "local stores", and we rarely ate out or got takeout in the Before Times, so I can't see starting that now.
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We were getting takeout for the first several weeks but now we just... don’t want anymore takeout
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We were getting takeout for the first several weeks but now we just... don’t want anymore takeout
This is how I feel. I want to support local businesses, but I just don’t feel like ordering out that much. It’s a dilemma.
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Many foods don’t lend themselves to takeout and aren’t good by the time you get home. We did it once and twice a week and now that restaurants are open are going out. So many locally are closing. We are in a tourist town so had lots of restaurants. We are retired and want to support them. We rarely ate out when we were raising kids.
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We were getting takeout for the first several weeks but now we just... don’t want anymore takeout
This is how I feel. I want to support local businesses, but I just don’t feel like ordering out that much. It’s a dilemma.
Same. We generally were on a 1-2x a month pre-COVID. During the first few months, we upped it to weekly, sometimes 2x a week.
It just got really old. Not just deciding what to get, but going out to get it. Plus, it's hard to eat as healthfully. My digestive system is sensitive.
So we are back to once every two weeks. And depends on what restaurant is selected, sometimes I skip it.
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We only ever did take out a few times a year, and that was from places that only do takeout.
I think getting admonished for cooking your own meals is kind of absurd.
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@Malcat i apologize to you. I just noticed I hadn’t thanked you for sharing your perspective on schools above
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@Malcat i apologize to you. I just noticed I hadn’t thanked you for sharing your perspective on schools above
No worries, I forget half of what I post just seconds after I post it. Lol
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@Malcat i apologize to you. I just noticed I hadn’t thanked you for sharing your perspective on schools above
No worries, I forget half of what I post just seconds after I post it. Lol
Are we twins? The same person, maybe?
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1) Avoided the whole "support local business" insanity which really gained traction during the scamdemic. Everyone knows the best way to save money is ordering goods online, and making sure you're getting the best bang for the buck by leveraging cheap labor in other countries.
2) Tipping - Just say no, if you absolutely have to eat at a restaurant, or order overpriced food through an app like UberEats, remind the server/driver that they are lucky to have a job during this record unemployment, and that tips are a disservice to their true goals and ambitions in life.
3) Groceries - self checkout is a great place to accidentally ring up your filet mignon as baking potatoes, enough said.
4) Church - everyone is always putting money into the "take a penny, leave a penny" basket they pass around during mass. Don't be shy about helping yourself to some of your fellow parishioners kindness. That's what it's there for right?
5) Free Entertainment - If you search the internet hard enough you will find that most intellectual property is available to download for $free.99.
6) Just Kidding, or not.