What's going on with Hudson Valley utilities? $2k month for "energy"?

[roomtempmayo]

Yesterday the WSJ ran a story under the headline, The American Dream Feels Out of Reach for Most (paywall): https://www.wsj.com/economy/consumers/american-dream-poll-us-economy-e5ddf640?mod=hp_lead_pos7

The article is a mix of genuine problems (dropping out of college without a degree results in debt without increased earning potential; housing affordability is in a bad way), tragedy (successful people from poor families often fail to get ahead because they're financially drained helping family and friends), and shame/comedy (moving to a big house you can't really afford and then losing your job because you're embezzling).

But what really caught my attention was a family claiming they're paying $2k/mo for "energy" in Mount Vernon, NY.

A home of one’s own

Richard Thomas and Cherish Celetti were sure they had pulled off their own version of the American dream when they bought a five-bedroom split-level in Mount Vernon, N.Y., for $612,000 in 2017.

“It was like everything was going in the right direction,” says Celetti, a 42-year-old lawyer who grew up poor among nine siblings.   

Buying her first house not only meant the couple’s children, now 8 and 11, could have their own bedrooms—a luxury both Thomas and Celetti used to pine for—but also that they had space to take in Celetti’s mom, Diane Thompson, and 20-year-old sister.

The couple’s $5,400 mortgage, including $689 in private mortgage insurance, was tight but doable, between Celetti’s salary and her husband’s as mayor of the town at the time. But seemingly overnight, their energy costs doubled to more than $2,000 a month, and grocery prices, insurance and other bills for the family of now six surged.

$2k per month for "energy"?  Is this real?  What's going on?

This sounds like a story from the oil embargo in the late 70s.  Someone get these folks a wood stove and a solar array, pronto!

[Ron Scott]

Not believing $2k

[Paper Chaser]

"Energy" might include gas prices too. 4 adults plus 2 kids sharing electricity, natural gas/propane, heating oil, and fueling a small fleet of vehicles can consume a lot of energy if the house and/or vehicles aren't efficient.

[Morning Glory]

They may have been on some sort of estimated billing program that was undercharging them, then gotten a large one time bill when someone read the meter. I can see that happening especially if the extra relatives moved in just a few months prior and the meter is only read a couple times per year. Otherwise they might be on propane or oil heat; the price can occasionlly spike that high in the winter if you don't pre contract.

We also don't know what they were counting as "energy ". Does this include gas for 4 vehicles? Non-energy utilities like cable and cell phones? Does grandma keep her room 90 degrees?

[bacchi]

It's a 5 bedroom house and, looking at the housing stock there, is probably over 100 years old. No insulation, old furnace/boiler, and expensive oil means high bills. $2000 though? Are they running a crypto server farm?

[Cranky]

I had friends who bought a beautiful old house in terrible shape. They were slowly rehabbing it and then surprise! They had two tiny people join them. That house had zero insulation and cost an absolute fortune to heat.

So they ran the furnace just enough to keep the pipes from freezing and just lived in the third floor bedroom all winter and then they moved to Texas.

Anyway, a 2k “energy” bill isn’t unbelievable but I’d be interested in a breakdown.

[Just Joe]

Multiple ~30 minute showers per day?

I remember hearing friends here tell us they were spending multiples more to heat/cool their ~5 year old house than we were.

DW and I couldn't decide if the house wasn't efficient or they heated and cooled it to a greater amount.

[bacchi]

Multiple ~30 minute showers per day?

I remember hearing friends here tell us they were spending multiples more to heat/cool their ~5 year old house than we were.

DW and I couldn't decide if the house wasn't efficient or they heated and cooled it to a greater amount.

During the various heat and cold waves, an inevitable thread starts on nextdoor where people complain about their utility bills. They're mystified by how high their bill is ($900 for a 1800 ft2 ranch was the highest), rant at the electric company, and then the truth comes out: they're heating or cooling to some crazy number. We're talking 85 degrees in the winter and 66 in the summer. It's like there's a disconnect between the thermostat and the electric/gas bill.

[Fomerly known as something]

As someone mentioned.  It’s likely oil heat with no contact.

[MommyCake]

I couldn't read the article without a subscription it seems.  But I live in the same county as Mt. Vernon, NY.

For comparison, our con edison gas/electric bill is 300-400 a month for a family of 4 in a 3 bed/2 bath home. 

[roomtempmayo]

For comparison, our con edison gas/electric bill is 300-400 a month for a family of 4 in a 3 bed/2 bath home.

Yeah, I used to live about two hours north of the city where it's much colder, and I don't think I ever had a month over $400.  That was one of the reasons I was shocked by the $2k figure, which would be a budget buster for many people.

Some of the alternate explanations people have proposed (average billing reset, including gasoline) would explain some of it, but even $1k in January would be steep.  At that point, any sort of alternative energy would likely have a quick payback.

[Just Joe]

As someone mentioned.  It’s likely oil heat with no contact.

Or my great foe: Suburban Propane even with a contract...

[dandarc]

My wife's friend recently had upstairs neighbor accuse them of having crossed the wires for their condo's AC / the neighbor's because "electric bill has never been this high!". People don't seem to grasp cause and effect, and there may be some odd scam of some sort going on. Reality seems to be "unit not maintained well + very hot summer" - actually it turns out for both units.

And without getting too far into details, also a lesson in not owning real-estate that isn't close to where you live (someone - please buy dandarc's house in Tallahassee!) or when you're just not in a very financially strong position.

[tooqk4u22]

Yeah, they probably had to buy oil/propane for the winter or something like that - so really a lump cost that covers several months. My father would bitch about the cost of refilling the tank every year but not in-between.  Or it could be the peak heat or cooling months but they ignore the low months - people are not logical with point in time vs. averages.

Might be a little click baity as well, bought house in 2017 and had a $5400 payment - even with $700 for mortgage insurance and assuming $1,000 for taxes that seems not right - that would mean a 7% interest rate with a 5% down payment even at time of purchase.  Nevermind that that interest rates plummeted to nothing and could have been refinanced AND values probably increased that would have reduced or terminated the mortgage insurance. 

There is probably a new payment for a Tahoe or Telsa or both that is adding to the squeeze.

[ChickenStash]

Not sure what bulk propane goes for these days but back when I was a teen in the late 90s I remember my folks saying a fill-up for the 500gal tank was around $500. That would only be a 3x a year or so, mostly during winter. This was in the upper midwest where it was pretty cold in winter but mild summers so we spent a lot propane for heat a few months a year but very little for electric the rest of the time (maybe a week of AC usage, if that).

I suppose if they have a large tank and big, inefficient house they might get a few bills that high but it wouldn't be all year long. Maybe a contract/lease renewal fee, too?

That kind of lumpy cost really shouldn't be a surprise for anyone living out in the sticks.

[Just Joe]

Our tank rental the last year was only $150. However the cost of propane started at about $2 per gallon the first year and closer to $5 per gallon the last year as I recall.

We still have nat gas heat and a generator but the goal when this HVAC wears out is switch to a heat pump perhaps with gas heat hybrid backup. And we'll keep the gas logs and home generator b/c it doesn't run often lately as the local grid is more reliable than five years ago.