We have decided that my husband will leave his job in November...

[coppertop]

Last year, his employer pronounced that all employees must have a flu shot.  He did not want the flu shot, but took it to save his job.  Shortly after that, he broke out in a rash all over his body.  Nobody can prove that the rash was caused by the flu shot, but he never had anything like that rash before in his life.  He will not have that shot again, so he must leave his job voluntarily or be fired if he will not take it. 

He will be 56 in the fall.  Our house is paid off, and we do not have any debt.  I am four years older, but I make more money. We have an older home, built in 1950, which needs a lot of work, and he is very handy, so the plan is for him to do the house renovations while I keep working until the work is all paid for.  This will mostly be for materials, and he can squeeze a penny until Lincoln cries, so materials will be as cheap as possible.  I already max out my 401(k) contributions ($24,000) and contribute the max to an HSA.  My only concern is what it will cost us to buy him health insurance.  That part is a bit scary.

He said he is feeling guilty, sending me out to work while he "stays home."  I am trying to get him to see that there are more ways to support a household than by bringing in money.  I was a SAHM mom for 17 years in my first marriage, so I know of what I speak.  I never felt guilty for a minute for staying home to take care of my kids.  I tell him that if we can't live on my salary, we need to have our heads examined. 

[DrF]

I'm pretty sure MMM wrote an article where he talked specifically about the value of doing your own home renovations (can't find it now, so if anyone knows the post please link it). If done to the right house $15-20k in materials could net a $70-100k increase in home value. Examples, add another bathroom, redo a kitchen, finish a basement etc.

He's got to start thinking that his home improvement skills are worth X dollars per hour, that should make him happy.

Good luck!

[Retired To Win]

... We have an older home, built in 1950, which needs a lot of work, and he is very handy, so the plan is for him to do the house renovations while I keep working until the work is all paid for...  My only concern is what it will cost us to buy him health insurance.  That part is a bit scary...

He said he is feeling guilty, sending me out to work while he "stays home..."

This sounds very similar to my first earlier retirement year.  My wife kept working at her job.  I worked a regular daily 4-hour home repair and improvement shift 6 days a week, doing a very large array of projects to get our house ready for sale. I knew that the work I was doing was saving us $50 an hour in labor costs ($1200 a week!!).  So no way did I feel guilty, nor my wife resent me staying home.  So let your husband know that his handyman efforts will make it possible for you guys to pile more money faster into your FI stash.

Good luck!

P.S. --  I was able to get added to my wife's employer-provided health insurance policy.  Any chance of that for you?

[CommonCents]

Last year, his employer pronounced that all employees must have a flu shot.  He did not want the flu shot, but took it to save his job.  Shortly after that, he broke out in a rash all over his body.  Nobody can prove that the rash was caused by the flu shot, but he never had anything like that rash before in his life.  He will not have that shot again, so he must leave his job voluntarily or be fired if he will not take it. 

Absent this issue, would he want to go?  If not, then it may be worthwhile to fight on this point, particularly bringing in his doctors records or statements.  Also, now might be a good time, in advance of the shot, to raise the issue with the manager and request an exception to the policy or a change in the policy, particularly as it's new.  And are you sure they'll actually fire him, if it's a new policy?  If no one has actually been fired over it, it may be a threat without a lot of substance.

[Michread]

Life is short - you're workin' it!!  Congratulations!  Let us know how it goes.

[mitlaura]

You may have more options than you think. My job (hospital) has a mandatory flu vaccine, but I got an exemption.
My state doesn't allow exemptions on philosophical grounds, but does allow medical (don't really have a reason there) and religious. So "my body is my temple..."
For the record I am an atheist. All it took is a written statement that it conflicts with my religious beliefs. And for the record I religiously believe that the flu vaccine will not help me.

Perhaps this helps you:
http://www.vaclib.org/exemption.htm

He should retire cause he chooses to, not cause he's forced or running away from something.

[Gin1984]

You may have more options than you think. My job (hospital) has a mandatory flu vaccine, but I got an exemption.
My state doesn't allow exemptions on philosophical grounds, but does allow medical (don't really have a reason there) and religious. So "my body is my temple..."
For the record I am an atheist. All it took is a written statement that it conflicts with my religious beliefs. And for the record I religiously believe that the flu vaccine will not help me.

Perhaps this helps you:
http://www.vaclib.org/exemption.htm

He should retire cause he chooses to, not cause he's forced or running away from something.

And I seriously hope your employer finds out and fires you for lying. 

[Vilgan]

Employers will frequently become suddenly very flexible on things when the alternative is losing a decent or good employee. I assume their goal is to reduce the odds of someone getting sick which would have been preventable, but an exception should be very daoble especially if the alternative is losing someone permanently. He should quit if it makes sense for your goals as a couple and you don't need his income, but quitting over a shot that he can probably get an exception for seems a bit extreme.

[Cathy]

The average person seems to think that flus are a lot less serious than they actually are. I sometimes see people talk about flus as if they were basically the same as the common cold, or otherwise a minor annoyance.

I had a flu once and I lost the ability to speak for four weeks (as in, I physically could not speak), nor could I chew solid food during that month and I was restricted to drinking fluids. I was also too exhausted to do anything useful. It was during a summer so I didn't have classes, but I was working during the summer, and I couldn't work with the flu. My employer at the time did not offer sick leave so I was not paid anything for that period.

Despite the severity of flus, I strongly oppose any attempt by the state to mandate vaccinations for it. That would be an oppressive interference with personal liberty. However, a private employer mandating same is quite different and falls under freedom of contract. If you disagree with the terms of employment, you can always negotiate them with the employer or find another job on the free market, or start your own business where you can make the rules.

[Guses]

You may have more options than you think. My job (hospital) has a mandatory flu vaccine, but I got an exemption.
My state doesn't allow exemptions on philosophical grounds, but does allow medical (don't really have a reason there) and religious. So "my body is my temple..."
For the record I am an atheist. All it took is a written statement that it conflicts with my religious beliefs. And for the record I religiously believe that the flu vaccine will not help me.

Perhaps this helps you:
http://www.vaclib.org/exemption.htm

He should retire cause he chooses to, not cause he's forced or running away from something.

And I seriously hope your employer finds out and fires you for lying.

How is this lying?

It is her belief that the flu will damage her body. Belief is the foundation of all religions. So there you go.

[Axecleaver]

The vaccine typically comes with a one page handout that explains you shouldn't take it if you're allergic to eggs. The vaccine is grown in chicken eggs. Is your husband allergic to eggs? It sounds very much like an allergic reaction.  Not to derail your plans, but maybe there are more options available than taking the shot or resigning?

[Gin1984]

You may have more options than you think. My job (hospital) has a mandatory flu vaccine, but I got an exemption.
My state doesn't allow exemptions on philosophical grounds, but does allow medical (don't really have a reason there) and religious. So "my body is my temple..."
For the record I am an atheist. All it took is a written statement that it conflicts with my religious beliefs. And for the record I religiously believe that the flu vaccine will not help me.

Perhaps this helps you:
http://www.vaclib.org/exemption.htm

He should retire cause he chooses to, not cause he's forced or running away from something.

And I seriously hope your employer finds out and fires you for lying.

How is this lying?

It is her belief that the flu will damage her body. Belief is the foundation of all religions. So there you go.

Most states require having a sincere religious conflict with vaccination.
An agonist does not have a religious conflict.  Granted, most people taking religious exemptions are lying too because majority of religious don't have an issue with vaccines, but it is still lying and just like lying on a resume can get you fired so can this, in most states.  And frankly, someone who works in a hospital who thinks this is ok to do, I'd be happy for her employe to fire her.

[Numbers Man]

I would have a problem with my employer telling me what to put into my body. What is the likelihood of a positive outcome for a flu vaccine? You're just giving up one more freedom of choice.

[Guses]

Most states require having a sincere religious conflict with vaccination.
An agonist does not have a religious conflict.

Her belief is sincere, who are you to say that she is not part of a religious movement where vaccines are the root of all evil? The point of religion is that it can't be demonstrated.


Do you mean atheist or agnostism in the second sentence? If so, they are also religious belief.

[Schaefer Light]

I would have a problem with my employer telling me what to put into my body. What is the likelihood of a positive outcome for a flu vaccine? You're just giving up one more freedom of choice.

Damn straight.  I'd be pissed if my employer told me I had to get a friggin shot.  I would push back pretty hard on this.

[coppertop]

Last year, his employer pronounced that all employees must have a flu shot.  He did not want the flu shot, but took it to save his job.  Shortly after that, he broke out in a rash all over his body.  Nobody can prove that the rash was caused by the flu shot, but he never had anything like that rash before in his life.  He will not have that shot again, so he must leave his job voluntarily or be fired if he will not take it. 

Absent this issue, would he want to go?  If not, then it may be worthwhile to fight on this point, particularly bringing in his doctors records or statements.  Also, now might be a good time, in advance of the shot, to raise the issue with the manager and request an exception to the policy or a change in the policy, particularly as it's new.  And are you sure they'll actually fire him, if it's a new policy?  If no one has actually been fired over it, it may be a threat without a lot of substance.

He tried to talk to the employee health nurse about it and ended up being called into HR for "intimidating" her.  He had brought information with him to show her about why he did not want the shot, and she refused to look at it.  Dissension in the ranks is not appreciated nor permitted in that work place.  He loves his job - it is in healthcare - but he hates the administrative bull. 

[Smokeydave]

Would he be eligible for unemployment if he was fired?

[coppertop]

Whether or not he could collect unemployment would depend, I think, on how his employer filled out the forms that the Unemployment Compensation office would send.  This is a large hospital group - one that doesn't care much about the individual employee.  I doubt they would allow him to collect, since it would cost them money in terms of having to replace the funds in their account.  This is an employer, for example, that sends employees home early if they have had to work late on another day because a patient needed them.  They try their hardest not to have to pay overtime.  Really, I think the time is right for him to leave this place.  They will replace him in a heartbeat.  His field now has a glut on the market of licensed techs who want jobs. 

[CommonCents]

Whether or not he could collect unemployment would depend, I think, on how his employer filled out the forms that the Unemployment Compensation office would send.  This is a large hospital group - one that doesn't care much about the individual employee.  I doubt they would allow him to collect, since it would cost them money in terms of having to replace the funds in their account.  This is an employer, for example, that sends employees home early if they have had to work late on another day because a patient needed them.  They try their hardest not to have to pay overtime.  Really, I think the time is right for him to leave this place.  They will replace him in a heartbeat.  His field now has a glut on the market of licensed techs who want jobs.

It's not their choice as to whether he collects or not.  If they fill out the paperwork wrong, he could always appeal. 

[Cathy]

Would he be eligible for unemployment if he was fired?

As CommonCents says, it depends on the law (which varies by jurisdiction) and not on how the forms are filled out, but this case may not be straightforward. The hospital's policy is arguably reasonable insofar as it reduces the spread of disease in the treatment environment at the hospital. Noncompliance with reasonable policies is usually adequate to establish a for-cause termination, which prevents the employee from collecting unemployment compensation. The general counterargument would be that the failure to allow any exceptions renders the policy unreasonable.

You may want to look into retaining counsel who would represent you on the basis of only charging a fee if you win the case.

[Ftao93]

I'm not sure the flu shot is worth leaving over (or that they have a legal right to fire him otherwise).

However, I say go for it!  He can fix up the house, and when you both retire, it'll all be basically done.  Sounds pretty awesome.

[southern granny]

I would still make them fire me instead of quitting.  I think there is a good chance he could draw unemployment.  Of course he would actually have to look for work while he is drawing it. 

[coppertop]

He is thinking of looking for something pt anyhow.  He's worked steadily since he was 15 years old and finds the prospect of not earning strangely unsettling. 

My son is an employment attorney.  I will have to ask him what he thinks.