Author Topic: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)  (Read 8976 times)

okits

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 13017
  • Location: Canada
Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« on: October 09, 2012, 10:09:08 PM »
From the comments of Oct 8's How to Go from Middle-Class to Kickass:
 
Quote
Jamesqf
MMM does include dog expenses (I think) under Miscellaneous – “voluntary ownership of multiple large animals”. The easy way to cut expenses here is to adopt rather than buy purebreds (or “designer breeds” like labradoodles, which are just mutts with a price tag). I’ve never had a critter that I had to pay money to get. Most were of the “can you keep him just for a week or two, otherwise he’ll have to go to the (sniff, snif) pound” variety.

I have a dog, and like Jacob at ERE I consider him "so offensively cute" and lovable as to be more than worth the expense.  :) 

That being said, I do wonder if I could be doing better on his costs.

I paid a breeder $1500 for him about eight years ago.  My rationale was that a responsible fancier would screen out hereditary health issues, thus saving me future vet bills.  So far he's made it to his golden years without any big (or genetic) health problems, for which I am very grateful.  But I have no idea if my earlier reasoning was remotely right.  Has anyone else tried to make the tradeoff between purchase price vs. vet bills later?  (I did look into getting a shelter dog, but as a first-time owner was a bit wary of not knowing a dog's health history...  A co-worker had sunk $500 into tests for a mystery ailment his new rescue dog had, ran out of money, still had no idea what was wrong, and had to put him down.  I would be heart-sick in that scenario and went for the known quantity, back then.)

I feed him decent-quality, store-brand food (bought in bulk to save an extra 10-15%).  Biscuits and treats, though not too many.  In his older years he doesn't wear out his toys anymore, so those don't need replacing.  Have his original leash and collar (sturdy, so I expect they will last, too.)

Grooming: I brush his teeth, trim his nails, clean his ears, brush and bathe him at home.  So no vet/groomer costs for this (minimal outlay for nail clippers, toothbrush and doggie toothpaste, brush, shampoo, tissues and cotton swabs.)

Heartworm and flea prevention, vaccinations: already on most economical option for these without compromising quality.   

Annual city license: he's micro-chipped and neutered so it's the lowest rate of $25/year; the only dogs that don't pay some kind of fee are service dogs.

Dog-walking: 100% in-sourced, cost is $0.  :)

All told I estimate doggie costs to be $125-150/month.  I wonder how that stacks up with others who voluntarily own (multiple) large animal(s), and are there ways I could pare this down a bit?  I do hear the "feed him better/more expensive food to keep him healthy" guilt trip from dog food advertisers, periodically, so sometimes I wonder if I'm being penny-wise, pound-foolish on that or other aspects.

JJ

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 117
  • Location: On the road, Australia
    • A Philosopher and A Businessman
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2012, 12:22:42 AM »
Raw meaty bones ($2/week) + plenty of exercise (free) = cheap way to general good health for dogs.
We would spend about $10/week on dog biscuits.  Kitchen scraps (broccoli "bones", carrot tops, apple cores etc - all raw) plus a slop of flax seed oil and a couple of eggs a couple of times a week (maybe $2/week) round out the diet.
So, food = $14/week.

We have a "bitsa" (bits of this, bits of that) breed from the pound so no genetic issues.  Annual "grease and oil change" (vaccinations, general health check), another $150.

$20/year registration with local council.

Allowance for periodic mishaps - $200/year (e.g. wearing through paws on asphalt tennis court, chopping out strange growth on leg, redoing stitches 3 times after chopping out strange growth on leg).

Allowance for beds, collar replacement etc = $50/year.  I did make a rather cool replacement for the canvas on his bed from some spare shade cloth.  It's indestructible compared with the ones it originally shipped with and won't need replacing in his lifetime.

Kennels for 2 weeks per year if we can't convince friends of his good looks = $280 [working on swap arrangements as this adds up quite quickly now that I see it in black and white].

Total, around $1400 pa.

Big hidden cost:
"Hmmm, the yard is a bit small for the dog.  That house won't work.  We'd better spend another $100k and get a house with a bigger yard."

MsSindy

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 531
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Philly Burbs
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2012, 06:45:56 AM »
We don't have children, so we've always had a dog (and some cats, too).  Both dogs were rescues.  Because of so many 'unwanted' dogs that are put down each year, I'm a big supporter of adopting rather than buying, but I'll save you the lecture.  :)

Regular maintentance of a dog is not too costly (we spend about what you have here), it's when they get the mysterious illness or get mischievious that it costs more money than it should.  We just assume that 'something' is going to come up within the year and budget for it.  Dogs are not cheap, but as long as you're not buying them tons of toys and costumes (annoying), then I think they provide excellent value for the money spent!

My personal thoughts are if you're not in a position to financially care for a dog (meaning you still have lots of debt, no emergency savings), you probably should put off being their caretaker.  Instead volunteer to pet-sit for people or volunteer at the local shelter, etc.

starbuck

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 400
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Small Town Connecticut
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2012, 06:52:47 AM »
Hmm I've never actually sat down and figured out pet ownership costs. We have a 12 year old mutt, and a recent addition of a stray kitten (who is turning out to be much more expensive than I anticipated.)

Food/litter:
$100/month according to Mint. The dog developed an allergy to a common additive to dog food, and we finally (FINALLY) found one she isn't allergic to. Upside: nice shiny coat, regained weight, no more dry skin, no need for any coat supplements. Downside: Limited ingredient organ meat kibble is priced like the filet mignon of dog food. Luckily she's small and regulates her own food intake, so it takes her about 2 months to eat the whole bag. She also goes bonkers for raw brussel sprouts/cauliflower scraps, so we never buy acutal dog treats.

Kittens eat A LOT of food, and this one decided he really only wanted to eat wet food. I've found the giant cans of kitten food now (the size of a dog food can), so this recently became much cheaper.

Dog vet/heartworm/frontline: $400/year. She's had zero health issues, no aches and pains, so we've been really lucky that she just needs an annual checkup.

Cat vet/meds: Just got neutered at the low cost clinic, and needs one more vax in a couple weeks, then he'll be good for a while. The last two months we've dropped $600 on his health for all that kitten checkup crap, but probably will be $300/year going forward?

Toys/beds/leashes/grooming: $0 Beyond a litter box, a couple of stuffed mice, and a scratch pad this is a nice zero going forward. The old dog doesn't really play or chew anything and trim her nails ourselves, we trim the cat's nails with normal nail clippers, and chuck wine corks for him to chase. Cat sleeps wherever he wants cause he's a cat.

Pet sitting: $0. We swap dog sitting pretty regularly with my sister in law and mother in law who both own dogs and also travel frequently. Our friend also cat sits for us. We typically take the dog with us if we're camping/visiting dog-friendly households overnight.

Grand total: roughly $2,000 per year. Ouch! Ah the truth hurts.

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2188
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2012, 07:55:14 AM »
We have a labradoodle!  She was $1200.  She is 5.5 years old now and has had no health issues and my son is not allergic to her and she does not shed - both of these things were requirements.  When we were looking for a dog, we looked at the pound first.  Allergies meant the dog needed to be non-shed and with loads of kids around we wanted a friendly breed. We did not find a suitable adoptable dog within the timeframe - these types go quickly where we live. We've been happy with our choice.

We do four things which save some money:
1.  We make all her food.  I use a crockpot and mix the recommended portions of whatever cheap meats are available with sweet potatoes and brown rice and some rosemary.  We add some fish oil or egg or ground eggshell to her food sometimes.  She gets one raw marrow bone a day.  She is extremely healthy and the vet was impressed with her teeth and her weight.
2.  We dog share.  Our dog is with us one week and with another family the next.  I travel for work and we frequently go places as a family that are not pet friendly.  As a result of this relationship, our dog has never been kennelled - we have always traded off vacation coverage.  The other family makes her food too.  They are a childless couple who hike so our dog loves that.  Someone is home during the day with her at both places.
3. We walk her ourselves - always.
4. We have a dog bed with a washable cover - we haven't had to buy a new one.

PJ

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2012, 08:39:27 AM »
Oh dear, this might be my most unmustachian area of life.  I love love love animals, and I seem to attract them (plus I am a multiple time foster failure).  I'm not an animal hoarder, but I am at the legal limit for where I live.  I have 4 cats (1 straight up adopted from the shelter, 1 former foster, and 2 that I found as kittens and was unable to find a new home for - I try to avoid that park during kitten season now!).  I have 2 dogs, an older pit bull and a young presumed Boxer/Fila Brasiliero mix.  They are both big dogs (about 60 pounds so not huge but med-large). 
 
I believe in good quality food to prevent more costly and distressing health problems down the road, a lesson learned through painful experience.  People go various ways on this - either cooking their own, or buying the more expensive organic/holistic/grain free types at the pet store, or going with a vet quality food.  I take the latter route - I love and trust my vet.  Recently, my older dogs specialty diet shot through the roof pricewise.  We'd put him on it because of major skin problems when I first adopted him, but they priced themselves out of my range.  We've successfully transitioned him to a good quality maintenance diet with no recurrence of the earlier problems, thank goodness.  Because I trust my vet, I will say that my vet actually cringes when people talk about buying pet food at the grocery store.  If it's available there, it's probably not very good quality.  When we've talked about brands available at the pet store/pet food store, his reaction varies, so he's not all about buying from their practice only.  If you trust your vet, I'd encourage talking through the options and getting their advice of which one of the reasonably priced options to choose.   

One of my cats unfortunately has to stay on a specialty food, and the vet wanted me to go with canned to increase his fluid intake as well.  Canned is more expensive, so as a compromise he gets mostly dry, and I mix extra water in with the canned so he gets the same amount (or more!) of fluid as if he ate fully canned.  Buying canned food in a larger can is great (not an option with this specialty food), but only if your pet can use it up within a reasonable period of time.  Standard advice is 3 days.  (Although I've never hesitated to go 4 or even 5, but wouldn't stretch it longer.) 
 
One thing to consider if you are thinking of voluntarily taking ownership of multiple large animals is that size does matter when it comes to the financial implications.  Any kind of medication - anesthesia for a spay/neuter surgery, flea and tick control meds, antibiotics, and anything required to treat any medical condition - will be more expensive for a larger dog than a smaller one.  Dosage depends on weight, naturally.  So all else being equal, choose the smaller dog!  Another lesson I've learned the hard way. 
 
Would that I had followed my own advice!  Without debt, having this many pets would be a lifestyle choice, a luxury that I could laugh at myself about.  But with my consumer debt, it's a crazy situation to be in.  Consider me the poster child for what not to do.  And punch me in the face as much as you'd like, just don't hurt my pets :-) 

zinnie

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 710
  • Location: Boston
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2012, 09:09:49 AM »
From the comments of Oct 8's How to Go from Middle-Class to Kickass:
 
Quote
Jamesqf
MMM does include dog expenses (I think) under Miscellaneous – “voluntary ownership of multiple large animals”. The easy way to cut expenses here is to adopt rather than buy purebreds (or “designer breeds” like labradoodles, which are just mutts with a price tag). I’ve never had a critter that I had to pay money to get. Most were of the “can you keep him just for a week or two, otherwise he’ll have to go to the (sniff, snif) pound” variety.

I have a dog, and like Jacob at ERE I consider him "so offensively cute" and lovable as to be more than worth the expense.  :) 

That being said, I do wonder if I could be doing better on his costs.

I paid a breeder $1500 for him about eight years ago.  My rationale was that a responsible fancier would screen out hereditary health issues, thus saving me future vet bills.  So far he's made it to his golden years without any big (or genetic) health problems, for which I am very grateful.  But I have no idea if my earlier reasoning was remotely right.  Has anyone else tried to make the tradeoff between purchase price vs. vet bills later?  (I did look into getting a shelter dog, but as a first-time owner was a bit wary of not knowing a dog's health history...  A co-worker had sunk $500 into tests for a mystery ailment his new rescue dog had, ran out of money, still had no idea what was wrong, and had to put him down.  I would be heart-sick in that scenario and went for the known quantity, back then.)

I feed him decent-quality, store-brand food (bought in bulk to save an extra 10-15%).  Biscuits and treats, though not too many.  In his older years he doesn't wear out his toys anymore, so those don't need replacing.  Have his original leash and collar (sturdy, so I expect they will last, too.)

Grooming: I brush his teeth, trim his nails, clean his ears, brush and bathe him at home.  So no vet/groomer costs for this (minimal outlay for nail clippers, toothbrush and doggie toothpaste, brush, shampoo, tissues and cotton swabs.)

Heartworm and flea prevention, vaccinations: already on most economical option for these without compromising quality.   

Annual city license: he's micro-chipped and neutered so it's the lowest rate of $25/year; the only dogs that don't pay some kind of fee are service dogs.

Dog-walking: 100% in-sourced, cost is $0.  :)

All told I estimate doggie costs to be $125-150/month.  I wonder how that stacks up with others who voluntarily own (multiple) large animal(s), and are there ways I could pare this down a bit?  I do hear the "feed him better/more expensive food to keep him healthy" guilt trip from dog food advertisers, periodically, so sometimes I wonder if I'm being penny-wise, pound-foolish on that or other aspects.

I'm sure it depends on the breed but in general the research I've read seems to indicate that mixed breeds have less health problems than purebreds. When you select specific characteristics from generation to generation you narrow the gene pool and specific health problems often come along with those characteristics. Mixed breeds have more genetic diversity so the impact of health problems is dispersed.

A good rescue with do a full physical of the dog as well as a behavioral evaluation before deciding whether or not they are adoptable. I know case studies are not statistics but for every story about a problem pound dog there are plenty of happy and healthy cases. I have two mixed breed rescue dogs that are in perfect health and temperament, though I was very selective when getting them and knew how to test them/ what to look for.

My dogs are small so they don't cost much. The kennel when we can't find a friend to watch them is the biggest expense. But the costs are so minimal, and they improve the quality of my life so greatly (see studies on the impact of pets on stress, or the impact of pets on depression), that I would never consider removing pets as a reasonable way to cut costs.

tooqk4u22

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2833
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2012, 09:11:10 AM »
I paid a breeder $1500 for him about eight years ago.  My rationale was that a responsible fancier would screen out hereditary health issues, thus saving me future vet bills.  So far he's made it to his golden years without any big (or genetic) health problems, for which I am very grateful.  But I have no idea if my earlier reasoning was remotely right. 

Actually, this assumption is almost 100% wrong - its true that good breeders will try to screen out donors with hereditiary issues, but in reality it is impossible many of these traits and genes can be recessive and also issues show up more as the dogs get older.  Purebreeds are essentially inbred and not only to the genetic anomolies not get filtered out, they get magnified. Some breeds are far worse for this than others. 

Mutts on the hand tend to be healthy because the good genes combine - think survival of the fittest.


Quote
One thing to consider if you are thinking of voluntarily taking ownership of multiple large animals is that size does matter when it comes to the financial implications.  ............So all else being equal, choose the smaller dog!  Another lesson I've learned the hard way. 

Not only do small dogs cost less they also live 1.5-2x longer than large dogs. 


sheepstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2417
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2012, 09:48:28 AM »
For another insight into the general question of purebred vs. pound dog, there is a middle way.  There are breed-specific rescues.  If you have your heart set on a particular breed (and temperament is somewhat predictable according to breed), there are volunteer rescues that are committed to rescuing that breed from shelters and placing them in homes. 

These are great because generally the volunteers are very committed to making sure you get a dog that works for you (or as they would think of it, the dog gets people that work for it).  They may straight up tell you that you or your lifestyle are not a good fit for that breed.  Or for any dog.

Sometimes they have puppies available but then again sometimes first-time dog owners assume a puppy will be easier but there is a lot to be said for a dog already having a bit of a personality so you know what you're getting, and volunteers who may be looking for a particularly laid-back dog (without problem issues from an abusive home, etc.) because they know you're new.   They will also be upfront about any health issues the dog has.  To be fair, shelters try to do this too but often they don't have the resources to have a person spend much time with the animal.

Finally, the volunteer organization is really committed to making things work so they will often provide continuing support if health or behavioral issues come up and some even specify that if you have to give the dog up, it must be given back to the rescue, not a shelter.  To be fair, sometimes breeders will do this too.

Oh, also there are rescues for specific cat breeds, not just dogs. 

zinnie

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 710
  • Location: Boston
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2012, 10:00:02 AM »
For another insight into the general question of purebred vs. pound dog, there is a middle way.  There are breed-specific rescues.  If you have your heart set on a particular breed (and temperament is somewhat predictable according to breed), there are volunteer rescues that are committed to rescuing that breed from shelters and placing them in homes. 

These are great because generally the volunteers are very committed to making sure you get a dog that works for you (or as they would think of it, the dog gets people that work for it).  They may straight up tell you that you or your lifestyle are not a good fit for that breed.  Or for any dog.

Sometimes they have puppies available but then again sometimes first-time dog owners assume a puppy will be easier but there is a lot to be said for a dog already having a bit of a personality so you know what you're getting, and volunteers who may be looking for a particularly laid-back dog (without problem issues from an abusive home, etc.) because they know you're new.   They will also be upfront about any health issues the dog has.  To be fair, shelters try to do this too but often they don't have the resources to have a person spend much time with the animal.

Finally, the volunteer organization is really committed to making things work so they will often provide continuing support if health or behavioral issues come up and some even specify that if you have to give the dog up, it must be given back to the rescue, not a shelter.  To be fair, sometimes breeders will do this too.

Oh, also there are rescues for specific cat breeds, not just dogs.

This has been my experience with private rescues as well. They thoroughly make sure that you and the dog are a good fit, and they offer to take the dog back at any point in time, no questions asked (in fact they make you sign that you won't take the dog back to a shelter). I got my dogs from a rescue that wasn't breed-specific but went around to the local shelters and chose dogs that were close to being euthanized. They put them in foster homes for a few weeks before adopting them out, so we had the opportunity to talk to the woman who had the dog in her home for weeks about what it was like with other dogs, around food, around different kinds of people, etc. When our second rescue dog got kennel cough a few weeks after we adopted him the owner of the rescue personally delivered medication to our house and called to check on him every few days.

AJ

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 906
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Oregon
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2012, 10:48:43 AM »
I've bought from a breeder, from a large shelter, and from a private shelter. Besides the purebred vs. mutt health problems noted by others, I trust breeders the least of the three. Breeders (even good ones) are for profit, and have a strong incentive to move their merchandise.

The best experience I had was with the local, large, low-kill shelter. They have a strong incentive to ensure your pup is a good match for you because they will likely be the ones receiving the dog again if it doesn't work out. They do a full vet screen, give them all their shots, microchip, and spay/neuter. They also put down dogs with bad health or behavioral issues (which a no-kill shelter wouldn't do).

If you worry about a dog's history, shelters do get puppies. You'll pay more for them, but still way less than from a breeder, plus they will already be altered and micro-chipped.

The only legitimately good reason I can think of to buy from a breeder is if you want to show the dog. You may find purebreds and puppies in shelters, but I have never seen a show-quality pup there. But if you're buying for show, your needs are different than someone buying a pet.

We're in the market for a dog at the moment, so this is all at the front on my mind anyway :)

Heather

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 79
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2012, 11:17:33 AM »
If you want a really healthy dog, you could consider a retired or rescue mixed breed sled dog, or some other non-show breed.  Dogs bred for real performance are usually rock-solid physically.   There are working breeds that are not shown,  and there are lots of pure breeds are split into show and working lines.   
 
Our dogs were bred for performance not looks, and we've never had an allergy or an inherited defect. They have however cost us a lot of vet money, because they are active and vigorous, so tend to do things like get scraped up, eat inappropriate objects or get porcupined. 
I wouldn't want to attempt to keep them in a place where they couldn't get lots of exercise.
Even our 15 year old geezer can still break into a run.

My sister had a mutt who was a cross between two pure breeds which tend towards hip dysplasia. 
He had it too, as well as something like Inflammatory Bowel Disease.  He was a very loving dog who was a health disaster and died very young. 

To save on vet money:  Study the Purina chart "Understanding your Dog's Body Condition". Look very carefully at the "Ideal" picture.   Then look at pictures of field trial champion pointers, world championship sled dogs  and racing greyhounds.  Look at  these healthy dogs so much that when you walk around your neighborhood 90% of the dogs you see look fat.  Then you're correctly calibrated.

Jamesqf

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4038
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2012, 12:41:36 PM »
I paid a breeder $1500 for him about eight years ago.  My rationale was that a responsible fancier would screen out hereditary health issues, thus saving me future vet bills.

This is usually wrong, especially if you buy from a breeder who's into showing, because a lot of those health issues are caused by breeders trying to attain the "breed standard".  The poster pup for this is probably the bulldog: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/27/magazine/can-the-bulldog-be-saved.html?pagewanted=all  Unfortunately, many if not most of those "fanciers" care more about whatever they get from winning dog shows than about the dogs.

IMHO, the only breeders you should consider are those who concentrate on working dogs - sled dogs, hunting dogs, or herding breeds - and who compete in working trials rather than shows.

I also agree with what others have said about weight and exercise.  If you are walking/running with your healthy, non-miniature dog and think you are getting plenty of exercise, the dog is loafing. 


grantmeaname

  • CM*MW 2023 Attendees
  • Walrus Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 5961
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Middle West
  • Cast me away from yesterday's things
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2012, 05:12:52 PM »
This is usually wrong, especially if you buy from a breeder who's into showing, because a lot of those health issues are caused by breeders trying to attain the "breed standard".
You can look on your breeder's site to make sure the purebreds are certified in good general health by something like the Orthopedic Foundation For Animals , as well as that they're individually tested for known breed problems (in my favored breed, CERF certified (eye problems) and parathyroidism testing are the big ones). This mitigates the problem somewhat. But yes, on the whole, expect purebred dogs to be more prone to health problems than mutts.

thurston howell iv

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 425
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2012, 07:05:05 AM »
I recently had 3 mutts- all relatively large (70-90) lbs and "vicious breeds" at that... One got very ill and had to be put down. I though that this would keep up as two but the pervasive sadness around the house prompted another family member addition so we rescued what turned out to be a purebreed. Honestly we don't really care as long as the dogs are well behaved.

We try and buy decent dog food - you know, the kind where meat is the first ingredient. We also add in raw chicken hearts and livers, raw meat of other sources, and the occasional eggs - I think they eat better than me!   It's still relatively cheap - besides the rawhide chewies they love.

The expense is worth it the quality of life they bring to us and the one we hope we bring to them.  As an aside, we can't do kennels as they get traumatized so we don't take vacations (goal is to retire early and build a cool Winnebago or somesuch monstrosity and travel the country with the pooches)

One of my favorite quotes " I want to be the man my dog thinks I am"


PJ

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2012, 08:40:46 PM »
Sadly, Thurston, depending on which of the so-called "vicious" breeds you're fond of, you may find it hard to travel around the country with the pooches.  At the very least you will likely have to carefully plot out your route to avoid each of the cities, counties, states, or provinces that ban your breed.  I'm a proud pit bull owner active in the fight to get the Ontario breed specific legislation repealed.  Depending on the area, pits, rotties, shepherds and several other breeds may be banned.  BSL is nothing to fool around with, and I'd want to be very careful about even driving through an area where my dog is banned.  Way too many good dogs have been seized and killed as a result of this legislation, in Ontario and elsewhere. 

c

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 300
  • Location: NYC
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2012, 08:02:19 PM »
Our animals are a good chunk of money each month. If it's not one thing, it's another, but we love them and they bring us such happiness  that we can't imagine life without them.

People are always saying "x is Mustachian, y is Mustachian", but to me watching your money and being frugal is about having the things that are important to you. Do I want have to work an extra 3 years to pay for cable TV? No. Do I want to have work an extra 3 years to have cats in my life? Yes.

I would like to try making their food. We tried in the past, but it wasn't a hit. Since then I've found many more recipes. I think it would probably be a hit with the kitten. Not sure about the other two.

We have three cats. The third was an accident (don't ask) but she's been a breath of fresh air.

We had a dog that we adopted from a rescue place*. It was a nightmare experience and we ended up having to re-home him, it was really sad. While there are many great rescue organizations, there are many who are just interested in getting rid of the animals, regardless of the fit. There's no way we can have any more animals, but I'd be super wary of adopting again and would lean towards a reputable breeder.

* Edited to add, this was before the three cats.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 08:07:41 PM by c »

TomTX

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5345
  • Location: Texas
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2012, 08:29:26 PM »
I paid a breeder $1500 for him about eight years ago.  My rationale was that a responsible fancier would screen out hereditary health issues, thus saving me future vet bills.  So far he's made it to his golden years without any big (or genetic) health problems, for which I am very grateful.  But I have no idea if my earlier reasoning was remotely right. 

Well, my two random cats (one a stray, one a shelter rescue, obviously not purebred anything) have had zero health issues since we stopped taking them for vet checkups. One of them would be sick for 2-3 days every time after all the injections.

They're indoor cats, they never have contact with other animals - no reason to keep getting rabies, etc boosters.

We've had these cats for 16+ years now.

c

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 300
  • Location: NYC
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2012, 09:02:55 PM »
TomTX, when our two cats were indoor-only our vet recommend against most vaccines due to risk of illness vs risk/cost of vaccines. She also recommend against treating the cancer one of our cats had. I got a few other opinions and they all recommended aggressive treatment. Once I researched I found out the treatments only offered the *chance* of a few more months at the cost of the comfort of our cat.

Like anything, you need to be able to trust your provider. We moved to another neighborhood and started going to a new vet. We now take our older cat back to our old vet as it's clear that her priority is the animal. Going forward we'll take the other cats there too.

TomTX

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5345
  • Location: Texas
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2012, 06:20:01 AM »
I can't blame the vet too much for the vaccines - there was a city ordinance in that city requiring registration, which required the vaccines....

thurston howell iv

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 425
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2012, 07:12:38 AM »
The solution for over priced vet vaccines is surprisingly simple. I only discovered this a few years ago having moved to a rural area.   I happened to be in a store called Tractor Supply- they sell clothes, feed for large animals and have lots of farm related stuff. Anyway, I stumbled across a fridge that had medicines.. After looking carefully, I discovered that they sold vaccine cocktails with a syringe (based upon size of dog) and it was like $25 per package. The "cocktail" basically included all of the recommended vaccines vets usually give with the exception of Rabies.  I purchased a few packs and administered the shots myself. Very easy and way cheaper too.

Another Reader

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5327
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2012, 07:32:11 AM »
You can order many of the standard vaccines on-line from various companies, Revival Animal Health being one of the better known.  Get together with a few other people to make it more cost-effective.  Review the vaccine protocols to make sure your dog or cat gets them at the correct intervals.

Here in the SF Bay area there are mobile shot clinics and vets that hold shot clinics that are cheaper than your Tractor Supply.

Do NOT vaccinate for rabies yourself without checking your state and local laws.  In many states, the rabies vaccine must be administered by a vet to get a rabies certificate.  That certificate may save your dog's life if the dog accidently nicks someone.  Depending on where you are, a bite of any kind may require a rabies certificate or the animal is euthanized to test the brain for the rabies virus.

cats

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1232
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2012, 02:15:19 PM »
I love animals and I'm totally planning to get a dog at some point and I don't really care if it is "un-Mustachian".  That said, in a lot of ways having a dog (or cat) is like having a kid, and I do think it's worth considering whether or not you can *really* take on with a pet before you bring one into your life.  For myself, my biggest reason for putting it off is that I still rent, and it can be MUCH harder to find an apartment that will take a dog (even if you aren't concerned about them having a yard to run around in).  I live in a very urban and expensive part of the country, so getting an apartment or house that would be able to accomodate a dog would probably mean another $100-$200/month in rent (plus that extra pet deposit).  Then there is food, vet visits, the occasional pet sitter, etc.  I figure a dog would cost me several thousand extra dollars per year and an untold level of headache any time I have to move.  So, I'm putting it off until after I buy my own place, and in the meantime I dogsit and dogwalk for friends (which helps them out), and I get my pet fix in that way.

jpo

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 518
  • Age: 37
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2012, 02:21:48 PM »
I love animals and I'm totally planning to get a dog at some point
But your name is cats!


PJ

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2012, 04:51:11 PM »
I love animals and I'm totally planning to get a dog at some point and I don't really care if it is "un-Mustachian".  That said, in a lot of ways having a dog (or cat) is like having a kid, and I do think it's worth considering whether or not you can *really* take on with a pet before you bring one into your life. 
 
 
I always used to say that having pets was a bit like having a car.  Not a need, but a want.  Generally a moderate expense, but every once in a while you'd get hit with a repair bill that would knock your socks off ...

Self-employed-swami

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1090
  • Location: Canada
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2012, 05:03:28 PM »
We have 2 cats.

They were both adopted, and so cost us $0.  We seem to need a new litter box about once a year ($35).  They have special food (keeps them from forming urine crystals, and that got expensive) so their food is $85/bag, but a bag lasts about 2 months.  Litter is $8/tub from costco, and we go through about 2/month.  They don't go to the vet unless something is needed (nothing since we switched foods 2 years ago, but I spent $350 treating the urine crystals and another $100 for antibiotics when the kitten scratched the older one's eye).  Neutering was ~$250 each cat, but we aren't trying to start a crazy cat house, so it was required.

So, the average yearly cost of out cats are as follows:
Vet ~$237.50 year
Food: $510
Litter box: $35
Litter: $192

Total: $974.50.

Worth every penny for me!


herisff

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 111
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2012, 08:28:24 AM »
I used to have large dogs (60 to 80 lbs), but then moved into a smaller place where there is a weight limit. I then got 2 small (about 10 lbs each) dogs. I must say that the small dogs have proven to be more expensive than the large dogs. It's not the vet visits or the food - it's the teeth. Smaller dogs have more teeth issues, which means more cleaning/teeth extractions etc. I didn't know this going in and was unpleasantly surprised by the need for teeth cleaning under anesthesia (almost $1k including extractions). One of my dogs has a mouth structure that necessitates tooth brushing as his kibble can't scrape his teeth when he chews. This reminds me that I must be more diligent about brushing his teeth routinely, now that the chaos of moving house again is basically over....

yomimono

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Location: Madison, WI
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2012, 10:44:55 AM »
I share space with two wonderful cats.  I budget $100/month for their expenses, which are usually just food and litter.  On normal months there is a fairly large surplus, but occasionally they do need vet checkups and vaccinations, so it about evens out.  When the e-fund is depleted I throw the surplus in there; otherwise, I just add it to my 'stash.

(My cats, like most, are perfectly happy to play with cardboard boxes and random objects intended for human use, particularly pens and boxes with screws in them.  They have a few special cat toys that friends have bought for them.)

Occasionally I have to tap the emergency fund for their medical expenses.  Recently one of them needed to have several teeth removed, which cost around $600 for the surgery and an additional $60 in car use/cab fees.

I also have to pay an extra $20/month per cat in rent, which is not insignificant.  When negotiating my lease, I agreed to take the trash out for the whole building and clean the stairs weekly in exchange for a $40/month credit, so it evens out, but I'd still be paying $480/year less in living costs if I didn't have adorable little creatures.

I had no up-front costs for these cats, as they belonged to an old housemate.  In fact, I got to enjoy their affection and free entertainment for two and a half years without having to pay a cent!

PJ

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2012, 12:12:47 PM »
For a pretty good illustration (although the specifics may differ) of our relationships with our dogs: 

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/dog_paradox 
 
This post dedicated to Taz.  May he live a thousand years.

fruplicity

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 69
Re: Voluntary Ownership of (Multiple) Large Animal(s) (i.e. a dog)
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2012, 06:26:20 PM »
Thank you PJ for that comic, I laughed and cried and hugged my dog.

She's a mutt (lab/basset mix) and cost$15 up front but later hit us with $3000 in one year to diagnose a heart condition (now completely manageable) and treat bladder stones, including one giant one that had to be surgically removed.

And I don't care. She is just about the only thing that I will blindly throw money down a drain for. Of course I try not to, and after her year of medical issues we've averaged about $140/mo or $1680 a year (including prescription meds for her heart and prescription diet).

I also feel guilty about not making her own food and relying on the store-bought food and it would be a good goal to try to make a batch of homemade food for her at least once a month to supplement. But she seems to have done well on the diet for about 4 years now and has stayed at a healthy weight - people always think she's a puppy because of her energy, shiny soft coat, and overall cuteness.

I also will never buy from a breeder despite our medical surprise with her - I figure either way you really never know and there are many more dogs in shelters who need homes.