Plug-in Hybrids?

[MoneyCat]

Anybody out there have an opinion of plug-in hybrid vehicles?  Now that we are powering our entire house with solar panels (and producing plenty of surplus energy), we have been talking about replacing my wife's dying 15 year old VW Beetle with a plug-in hybrid.  We figure the fuel would be free for almost all of our trips on battery power and it would also give us an extended gasoline/electric hybrid range for longer trips.  Anyone have experience with this?

[Homey The Clown]

Chevy Volt is the way to go without doubt. You can drive around town with no gas (40+ miles range in fall/spring/summer, 50 for the 2016 later this year) or across the country (9 gallon tank, >=35mpg highway, also increasing for 2016 model). No other plug in with a gas engine has the same combo of electric and gas range. They either sacrifice electric range (Ford Energi's, Prius plug in) or the gas range (BMW i3 REX).

We have one and love it. We rarely use gas around town (<1 gallon per month) but drive it out of town when we want. Also, the 2014s and 2015s are going on really good deals now that the updated version has been announced. You can get a loaded one for not much over $30000 and then there's a $7500 tax credit if you pay that much in taxes. I found a loaner 2013 in August for <$28500 out the door, so <$21000 with the tax credit, far cheaper than the most basic Prius.

[ChaseJuggler]

I don't recommend the Plug In Prius. I literally just sold mine today!

Issues:

a) Charge rate of about 7 miles per hour, making public charging stations nearly worthless.
b) Max electric range of about 10 miles. Decent only if you can charge it at least twice a day.
c) Can't heat up the car without the engine on, so in the winter it might as well have no battery.

If it's your only vehicle, go for a used Volt. If it's your second vehicle, get a used Leaf and just use the other car for days that require >70 miles.

The only reason I didn't buy a Volt personally is because the back seats don't go down.

[Homey The Clown]

The only reason I didn't buy a Volt personally is because the back seats don't go down.

What does this mean? I've folded my back seats down several times for bikes and other larger items.

[ChaseJuggler]

The only reason I didn't buy a Volt personally is because the back seats don't go down.

What does this mean? I've folded my back seats down several times for bikes and other larger items.

Just googled it..... I stand corrected!

I must have misread when I was first researching it.

[Sid Hoffman]

Yeah you probably mixed it up with the earlier Civic Hybrids.  Those did not have fold down seats.  I second the advice to give the Chevy Volt a look.  The reliability seems to be quite good but the resale took a DIVE, probably because they say "Chevrolet" on them.  If you're looking at 2012 models, you can either get a Chevy Volt or a Toyota Prius for about the same amount of money, from what I've seen.  The Prius will get better gas mileage when running on gas, but the Volt can take you the first 25-40 miles without using any gas at all.

Either car is something of a lifestyle choice because of how cheap gas is nowadays, but if it gets back up over $4/gallon again next year then they'll look pretty attractive.  I love the idea of a Chevy Volt because I almost never drive more than 40 miles a day.  However... I almost never drive more than 40 miles a day, and there's some weeks where I barely even do 40 miles in a week.  I can't justify an $18k car to only drive 4-5k miles a year.

[Beric01]

Either car is something of a lifestyle choice because of how cheap gas is nowadays, but if it gets back up over $4/gallon again next year then they'll look pretty attractive.  I love the idea of a Chevy Volt because I almost never drive more than 40 miles a day.  However... I almost never drive more than 40 miles a day, and there's some weeks where I barely even do 40 miles in a week.  I can't justify an $18k car to only drive 4-5k miles a year.

This. A bicycle + cheap used car that you don't use much is far better. Organize your life so that you don't need to drive much in the first place (or in my case, not own a car at all).

Plus-in hybrids and electric cars are really just another luxury car at this point. Let the rich buy them and test them out, and let the companies get the cost down. In 10 years from now the technology should be improved and the cars dropped in price, so you can buy a decent one used.

Don't buy new cars. Just don't.

[ColorOfCash]

Don't look at the electricity as "free". If you weren't using it for the car, you either bought more solar panels than needed or could have sold back to the grid.

Compare the numbers of a plug-in hybrid to a non-plug-in of any basic car (eg: $10k in my area gets a 2013 with 20K miles) and see if you will be able to recoup the premium with the plug-in.

Disclaimer: I have a plug in and not buying one in the future. I've enjoyed the ride, but money wise it wasn't wise for me.

[NaturallyHappier]

I also generated more electric than I use each year and that even after switching to electric geothermal heat.

I have looked at plug ins and the only one that seem practical is the Volt.  I have not bought one because, even with the excess electric, it is still hard to justify the high price tag.  Also, I have a Prius that gets 50MPG and has way more space than the Volt, so I can't see giving up the Prius.

[Homey The Clown]

Used Volt prices have taken a dive primarily because of three factors, the tax credit, the price drop on the 2014 models, and the very high percentage of Volts that were leased. These are now coming off lease in droves. It should be possible to get a Volt at not much more than a "basic" car. As I noted, I got a new Volt for less than $21000. Now you can get a 2012 or 13 with less than 50000 miles for under $15000. Prius's are a fair bit more on the used market despite a lower asking price.

I do agree that riding a bike more still makes sense, but we have two small kids and taking them everywhere in anything but a fairly small town pretty much requires a car. Tomorrow we'll be going to gymnastics (city run and cheap) to a free tots on trails program at our local NWR. That will involve 50 or so miles of driving and we'll probably use less than .25 gallons.

As for the cost of electricity, it costs me roughly $1.50 to fill the battery from dead which gets me a year round average of 40 miles. Right now that still makes it bit cheaper than a Prius in town and far cheaper than any basic car.

[MoneyCat]

I should add that my wife would be getting this car for free from her employer, which would probably impact some responders' comments about the price of the car.  She wants a car that's environmentally-friendly, but has a range extender so she can use it for longer business trips when necessary.  Her employer pays her mileage for long car trips.

We do ride our bicycles whenever possible in town, but they aren't practical for her job.  My wife has to carry a fair amount of cargo everyday.  A bicycle ride to her job would also be rather long and they do not offer showers on site.

At this point, my wife is trying to decide between a Chevy Volt and a Ford C-Max Energi.  The Volt has a longer EV range, but the C-Max Energi is more fuel efficient for longer trips that require the use of the hybrid engine.

[Sid Hoffman]

I should add that my wife would be getting this car for free from her employer, which would probably impact some responders' comments about the price of the car.

At this point, my wife is trying to decide between a Chevy Volt and a Ford C-Max Energi.  The Volt has a longer EV range, but the C-Max Energi is more fuel efficient for longer trips that require the use of the hybrid engine.

Is this going to happen in the short term?  The 2016 Volt will be released soon with more traditional styling inside and out, as well as a claimed increase in electric range from 37 miles to 50 miles.  Pictures here: 2016 Chevy Volt

As for the C-Max Energi, I've not seen any positive reviews from owners, but I have seen some fairly mild to negative reviews.  The battery packaging on the Ford is lousy, cramping your trunk/cargo options.  From owners forums I've read the real-world electric range is not as good as claimed.  On the other hand, the styling is more traditional inside and out and that appeals to a lot of people.  Depending on how much the company is covering, the other leading option would be an Accord Plug-In.  It's not a great deal if you're the one paying, but it's probably the nicest of the bunch if somebody else is footing the bill, but it does have a pretty short all-electric range.

[iknowiyam]

Test drive them first! I test drove a Volt, C-max, and (non plug-in) Prius all in the same week last year. Volt was the best, even though I was totally unfamiliar with the layout and feel of an American car, having mostly driven only a Toyota and old Mazda in the in the past.

We ended up buying a 2012 Volt last year and love it still. It handles well and is comfortable. Seats do not fold flat in the back, but they do fold and allow for a pretty good amount of hatchback cargo. It has a kind of clever heating system. When it is REALLY cold, it will fire up the gas engine even if you have a charge. It will run 2-3 minutes, then switch back to electric as you drive. I have only had this happen a few times; I guess it depends on the climate where you live. Also, we have a car port and not a closed garage, which may make a difference.

Hopefully the Volt will eventually be our only car. We have already taken it on 2 road trips with no problems.