Venting at work - the Mustachian way

[Sydneystache]

Had to vent at another colleague today. Nothing personal but probably more symptomatic of my frustration and misgivings at continuing to work at a big bureaucracy that fosters less and less trust in its employees and creates a culture of paperwork (don't tell me it's compliance, it's just pettiness of wanting to know what we get up to every single day; I believe in the former but not the latter - just don't treat us like dumb self-interested shits that will blow company money given any slack - having7 finance people overseeing 10,000 employees+ now that's where the problem lies).

What is ironic is that the higher-ups have their personal expenses, all and sundry, approved, no questions asked. I'm not yet at the "business credit card" level. They also get paid 5x more so there's no problem for them (unless they really have a massive spendypants mindset). However, us lower-downs have to go through the rigmarole when asking if this or that expense can be justified - e.g. is this a business expense that promotes you and the big entity you represent to the wider world? Of course my answer is yes. That's why I have requested it be treated as such. But noooo...it's not seen that way.

Now, before MMM I would have gotten het up and think "it's the principle of the thing" that MY business expense HAS TO BE approved. So I would have spent tons of energy (emotional, physical, mental) writing the tangible and intangible value of said business expense and ask Finance: "PLEASE APPROVE IT OR ELSE".

But today, I told my colleague (who is overseeing such things), "It's not worth my time."

In the past 6 months, I've given up asking for reimbursement for work travel (nearly $1K) and today, my business expense (which is my money pot - i.e. work has already given me the money but I need to spend it within their parameters) of around $5K. That's $6K or $1K a month since the start of the year. Am I crazy? The old me would have said yes. The new me says "Meh."

I'm being paid above average wages in an HCOL. I have better things to do than appease big bad bureaucracy coming down on me. My RE plan is there.

So you know what, $6K is a paltry amount to pay for my sanity and mental health! :-)

[RobFIRE]

What is ironic is that the higher-ups have their personal expenses, all and sundry, approved, no questions asked.

Yes, reminds me of a few years ago when my (relatively small) company announced that due to poor financial results no bonuses would be paid and salary increases would be minimal. Not that the company had made no profit or lost money. On the contrary, the company had made something like a 20% profit, but the directors thought something like 35% was appropriate as those levels had been reached in some previous years. In that same year all the management board went on a week long all expenses paid "management strategy retreat" in a ski resort, so somehow there was still budget to pay for that...

So you know what, $6K is a paltry amount to pay for my sanity and mental health! :-)

$6k sounds like a fair amount to me, and perhaps would to most people. But it's all relative, and if what that really means is that it's less than 10% of your take home pay and benefits in that period, then yes I agree that extra stress and hassle for 10% of salary is generally not worth it.

My RE plan is there.

Good for you!

[Sydneystache]

In that same year all the management board went on a week long all expenses paid "management strategy retreat" in a ski resort, so somehow there was still budget to pay for that...

Just atrocious and disconnection! How many management strategies did they come up with? Any implemented?

We had a gee up Christmas party at a 5 star hotel shortly before management sacked a whole lot of people. Merry Christmas. Budget for the party but not for people.

$6k sounds like a fair amount to me, and perhaps would to most people. But it's all relative, and if what that really means is that it's less than 10% of your take home pay and benefits in that period, then yes I agree that extra stress and hassle for 10% of salary is generally not worth it.

I didn't mean to sound flippant over $6K. $6K is the base price of a Tour de France bike, people's entire grocery budgets or rent for the year. What I meant was the MMM mindset has allowed me to realise that $6K is not worth it for one's sanity. And no matter how principled I can be about my work, a job is still a job.

[rothwem]

In the past 6 months, I've given up asking for reimbursement for work travel (nearly $1K) and today, my business expense (which is my money pot - i.e. work has already given me the money but I need to spend it within their parameters) of around $5K. That's $6K or $1K a month since the start of the year. Am I crazy? The old me would have said yes. The new me says "Meh."

I'm sorry, but this is monumentally dumb.  File your damn expense report and get your money.  I can't honestly believe that it takes you that long to take a snap of your receipts and upload them to the system. 

Just FYI, I had a business credit card at my last job.  I still had to file an expense report, I just couldn't get any credit card rewards for spending money.  It was the worst of both worlds, your bosses just don't complain about it like you are. 

[Livingthedream55]

In the past 6 months, I've given up asking for reimbursement for work travel (nearly $1K) and today, my business expense (which is my money pot - i.e. work has already given me the money but I need to spend it within their parameters) of around $5K. That's $6K or $1K a month since the start of the year. Am I crazy? The old me would have said yes. The new me says "Meh."

I'm sorry, but this is monumentally dumb.  File your damn expense report and get your money.  I can't honestly believe that it takes you that long to take a snap of your receipts and upload them to the system. 

Just FYI, I had a business credit card at my last job.  I still had to file an expense report, I just couldn't get any credit card rewards for spending money.  It was the worst of both worlds, your bosses just don't complain about it like you are.

+1  Hire a virtual AA to do it for you but don't leave the money on the table!

[Sydneystache]

In the past 6 months, I've given up asking for reimbursement for work travel (nearly $1K) and today, my business expense (which is my money pot - i.e. work has already given me the money but I need to spend it within their parameters) of around $5K. That's $6K or $1K a month since the start of the year. Am I crazy? The old me would have said yes. The new me says "Meh."

I'm sorry, but this is monumentally dumb.  File your damn expense report and get your money.  I can't honestly believe that it takes you that long to take a snap of your receipts and upload them to the system. 

Just FYI, I had a business credit card at my last job.  I still had to file an expense report, I just couldn't get any credit card rewards for spending money.  It was the worst of both worlds, your bosses just don't complain about it like you are.

I did with my travel and the administrative lackey questioned 50% of my expenses. Sorry, but arguing over $500 isn't worth my time or the power trip lackey was getting. "Oh you mean you used 'fuel' for that part of your journey - sure it wasn't a side trip?' *groans* you mean I saved thousands of dollars for the company but hey the $30 fuel is still on the table? It is absolute corporate bullshit.

Today was the $5K which I passed by my colleague and he said I would be creating a 'precedent' if I asked for it to be reimbursed. Sure, if I were a hetereosexual male employee and blew it on entertainment expenses on hookers and blow I would get a free ride...but I am not. :-/

I know the figures are a lot but before MMM I'd have had a brain aneurysm arguing for my expenses but I am willing to walk away from this type of political expense games now.

In one accounting session, one of the lackeys said, "Pity the execs using corporate credit cards don't have to itemise their expenses cos there'd be a scandal if they had to." Yup. Perhaps buying tickets to the next football game entertaining clients would be more acceptable. :-/ but yeah, I am saying goodbye/hasta la vista/auf wiedersehen to my Tour de France bike. Come to think of it, one of the bigger bosses just gave up on his credit card. Made sense. He is also on some awful car leasing arrangement which ended up costing him $15k/pa instead of paying $10K for a used car.

Did I also mention some TedX bullshit my company sponsored? Hahaha, money down the drain....ok I will stop now.

[UKMustache]

I'm very confused.

You are 'sticking it to the man' by NOT claiming $6k worth of expenses you've paid out of pocket?

I cannot see a mustache, I can't even see any stubble, not a single whisker.  This strikes me as the opposite, I might be asked some questions so I'm not going to bother completing the paperwork.  It's complainypants at best.

[Sydneystache]

I will claim the expenses through my income tax return for work-related expenses. I have the receipts and car logs and all that. I am just not claiming it through the company and their shenanigans anymore. The back story to this is the admin side ("cost centres") has been cut to bare minimum short of going offshore. My side ("profit centres") is bearing the cost cutting to said admin side.

I thought my "vent" was less complainypants :-P

[WildJager]

It sounds like it's the back and forth that frustrates you.  I would just file an initial expense report, and whatever they balk at just agree and call it a day.  Then at least you're getting some money back without the fight. 

But, to each his own.  I don't mind doing expense reports for a trip.  It's just part of doing business, even if the execs have it easier.

[ysette9]

I don't understand this situation at all, but then I have a corporate credit card that I have to bill all work travel expenses on, then file for reimbursement. There are very clear policies of what is reimbursable and what is not, so we know in advance where the lines are drawn. They are not generous lines, but they are clear.

If I were you, I would buy nothing and do no work travel from here on out unless it was very clear to me in advance that I would definitely be reimbursed for it. If they can't provide that guarantee in writing and then live up to it, no travel/spending for me. I make a very healthy salary and no way would I leave $6k on the table.

[jlcnuke]

I will claim the expenses through my income tax return for work-related expenses. I have the receipts and car logs and all that. I am just not claiming it through the company and their shenanigans anymore. The back story to this is the admin side ("cost centres") has been cut to bare minimum short of going offshore. My side ("profit centres") is bearing the cost cutting to said admin side.

I thought my "vent" was less complainypants :-P

You're still losing money. You lose everything below 2% (can't be claimed as a deduction) and business expenses are a deduction, not a credit, so you only get a fraction of what you do get to claim back in the first place (assuming you aren't subject to AMT which prevents the deduction entirely iirc). You're throwing away money by not dealing with "their shenanigans"...

[inline five]

You're doing exactly what they want. They want to make it so difficult people just give up.

I sent hundreds of faxes (free) over the course of a year to file for around $30 in insurance payout that they kept denying because the name listed was Susie not Susannah (not joking). They refused to fix the name so I just kept faxing. Every day. It was easy, via HelloFax on Google. Every fax I sent they had to send a denial in the mail, running up around $0.50 in mailing plus all the work on their end. It was a fun year :).

[dandarc]

You're still losing money. You lose everything below 2% (can't be claimed as a deduction) and business expenses are a deduction, not a credit, so you only get a fraction of what you do get to claim back in the first place (assuming you aren't subject to AMT which prevents the deduction entirely iirc). You're throwing away money by not dealing with "their shenanigans"...

1) A fraction is better than 0.
2) I think OP is in Australia.  Probably very different tax situation there.

[Dave1442397]

You're doing exactly what they want. They want to make it so difficult people just give up.

I sent hundreds of faxes (free) over the course of a year to file for around $30 in insurance payout that they kept denying because the name listed was Susie not Susannah (not joking). They refused to fix the name so I just kept faxing. Every day. It was easy, via HelloFax on Google. Every fax I sent they had to send a denial in the mail, running up around $0.50 in mailing plus all the work on their end. It was a fun year :).

I love fax attacks! Back in the '90s I had a phone dispute with MCI to the tune of around $800, and they were trying to ignore me. I compiled all the correspondence, fed it into the fax machine, then taped the ends of the 10-12 pages together to form an endless loop and hit send. I let that run for a few hours, then gave them a call the next day. I got my money back.

[jlcnuke]

You're still losing money. You lose everything below 2% (can't be claimed as a deduction) and business expenses are a deduction, not a credit, so you only get a fraction of what you do get to claim back in the first place (assuming you aren't subject to AMT which prevents the deduction entirely iirc). You're throwing away money by not dealing with "their shenanigans"...

1) A fraction is better than 0.
2) I think OP is in Australia.  Probably very different tax situation there.

1. 100% is better than less than 100% too.

2. I didn't notice the Australia thing... could be significantly different in that case.

[CowboyAndIndian]

I love fax attacks! Back in the '90s I had a phone dispute with MCI to the tune of around $800, and they were trying to ignore me. I compiled all the correspondence, fed it into the fax machine, then taped the ends of the 10-12 pages together to form an endless loop and hit send. I let that run for a few hours, then gave them a call the next day. I got my money back.

You are my hero!!!!

[Guesl982374]

In the past 6 months, I've given up asking for reimbursement for work travel (nearly $1K) and today, my business expense (which is my money pot - i.e. work has already given me the money but I need to spend it within their parameters) of around $5K. That's $6K or $1K a month since the start of the year. Am I crazy? The old me would have said yes. The new me says "Meh."

I'm sorry, but this is monumentally dumb.  File your damn expense report and get your money.  I can't honestly believe that it takes you that long to take a snap of your receipts and upload them to the system. 

Just FYI, I had a business credit card at my last job.  I still had to file an expense report, I just couldn't get any credit card rewards for spending money.  It was the worst of both worlds, your bosses just don't complain about it like you are.

+1  Hire a virtual AA to do it for you but don't leave the money on the table!

+2 - This seems lazy and dumb. Go get your money.

[PoutineLover]

Must be nice to not care about 6k. I'm one of the people who had to deal with processing expense reports and yes, it's hassle, and yes they require stupid levels of detail, but if you read the instructions and fill it out correctly you will almost certainly get all eligible costs reimbursed, and I can't imagine it would take more than a couple hours so unless you're making an incredibly high hourly wage it's probably worth it.

[moof]

I've let too many reimbursements go by the wayside due to hatred of paperwork.  The worst was a place where it was all hand filled out and my boss was a really stickler for his version of the right way to categorize things, no matter that the sum came out identically.  I started finding ways to not be available for travel, and soon left the place.

Current shop has an app so you can just take pictures of receipts and it is relatively not much worse than necessary.  I still sit on them till near the deadline, including about $1k in receipts sitting in my desk now.  I still hate travel in large part due to the hassles of reimbursement.

I still don't understand why I have to stick company travel on my personal credit card and justify reimbursement.  It should be the other way.  I should get a company card, and it should be up to accounting to argue against anything I charge.

end rant.

[inline five]

I wish my wife could use a personal card. Count yourself lucky you can get points for free.

[RyanAtTanagra]

This needs moved to the anti-mustachian wall of shame.  How is this venting the mustachian way?  This is the exact type of stuff we make fun of non-mustachians for - not filing expense reports because it's too much work.

[SwordGuy]

Sit down at your desk and spend the day doing the expense report.  Two days if that's what it takes.   And get paid for those days. :)

[RyanAtTanagra]

Also, if you want to make this a mustachian story, get your current expenses reimbursed, then tell your boss you're not traveling for work/spending work money any more, as it's too much of a bureaucratic hassle to get reimbursed.  Then you can post it over in the FU Money stories thread.

[golden1]

I'm sorry, but this is monumentally dumb.  File your damn expense report and get your money.

Seriously.  I don’t care how difficult they make it.  I would have no “sanity” if I let my workplace take advantage of me like that.  In fact, my self esteem would take an enormous hit for being such a pushover and so wasteful.

[Zamboni]

In the past 6 months, I've given up asking for reimbursement for work travel (nearly $1K) and today, my business expense (which is my money pot - i.e. work has already given me the money but I need to spend it within their parameters) of around $5K. That's $6K or $1K a month since the start of the year. Am I crazy?

Okay, I somewhat get your pain, but you are crazy for not filing that amount.

I'm sympathetic. I deal with an idiotic penny pincher in the administrative pipeline as well. She is not the boss but she reviews all expenses by my department. She also likes to hide behind "compliance" and other bullshit as a way to justify just being a pain in the ass. To give an example, she once questioned my use of a small amount colored paper instead of plain white paper for a batch of copies (it was for a business presentation to a group of customers, and I did have to explain to her that using the different colored pages ensures that everyone in the room can quickly locate and look at the same thing at the same time. I tried to do so in the most condescending tone possible, as if I was explaining it to a 3 year old, although it seemed to have no effect on her.) A co-worker had to write a check back for something like $4.12 for coffee he got at the airport on a business trip because it was after the security gate but before the flight . . . apparently that is against "the rules." I swear, it's like she's the first grade queen bee, but in reality she has no authority over me.

My solution is now to get the nearest admin assistant to file it all for me. She knows how to do it better than I do, and she doesn't seem to mind doing it. If I go overseas, she figures out all of the currency conversions and everything. She is not "my" admin assistant, but I asked her if she would do it and she said yes. Before she moved into my general office area, someone in the main office did it for me. Again, she was slightly bored and seemed quite happy to have something to do. When I get back from a trip, I just hand her an envelope full of my receipts. Easy peasy. By the way, both of the ladies ABSOLUTELY LOATHE the idiotic penny pincher because she lords over them. So, they do everything they can to file my expenses in a way that is most likely to get around her and her ridiculous ideas about the rules.

PS Just in case you think I am being sexist, for the record: I am female.