Author Topic: Vehicle Manliness  (Read 37814 times)

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2014, 12:38:14 PM »
Everything on the internet is at least somewhat tongue in cheek.  With that said, choosing to buy extra oil does mean choosing to send your hard earned dollars out of the American economy and into Middle Eastern economies which support terrorists.  I always find it funny when rednecks say they only "buy American" when referring to their vehicles, but then proceed to spend more on gas from terrorist states than they spent on the vehicle from Detroit.  American car manufacturers work very hard to maintain that level of cognitive dissonance in their target demographic.

Hmmm...  The US is actively engaged in exporting ever greater volumes of refined products, so I am not sure your suggestion that burning gas and diesel supports terrorist states.  Most of the oil from the gulf seems to be getting hovered up by China, Japan and the like.  I very much doubt more than 5% of the gas I have bought in the last year started out as anything other than US produced crude.

you are correct in that our reliance on foreign oil is decreasing and our exports of refined petroleum products are increasing. the 5% number is still much too small, though. relevant snippets from the EIA website:

  • "The U.S. became a (slight) net exporter (exported more than we imported) of refined petroleum products in 2008. Refined petroleum products produced in the U.S. from both domestic and imported crude oil are exported to other countries. The volume of net exports of refined products in December 2012 was equivalent to about 8.5% of the total volume of U.S. petroleum consumption in December 2012." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=268&t=6
  • "In 2012, about 40% of the petroleum consumed by the United States was imported from foreign countries.1 This was the lowest level since 1991." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=32&t=6
  • "'Petroleum' includes crude oil and refined petroleum products like gasoline, and biofuels like ethanol and biodiesel. In 2012, about 80% of gross petroleum imports were crude oil, and about 57% of all crude oil that was processed in U.S. refineries was imported." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6
  • "The top five source countries of U.S. petroleum imports in 2012 were Canada, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and Russia. Their respective rankings vary based on gross petroleum imports or net petroleum imports (gross imports minus exports).  Net imports from OPEC countries accounted for 55% of U.S. net imports." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6

I take all this to mean that if the gas you purchased last year was representative of overall crude oil consumed in the US, then ~60% was from US crude, ~22% from OPEC countries, and ~18% from other foreign countries (assuming exports to a country cancel out imports from that country). not meaning to nitpick, I just think energy is really interesting and I always like to look stuff up to make sure I'm getting it right :)

and on that note, I should wrap up my lunch break and get back to trying to crack the Next Big Mid-Continent Liquids Play(TM) ;)

AJ

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #51 on: March 31, 2014, 12:39:33 PM »
Not necessarily, unless you're just thinking about gas (plus registration, insurance, &c).  A Tesla Roadster costs more than maybe 99% of trucks, yet uses way less fuel (even using the most favorable electricy-gas conversion formula).

Ha! I can picture the scene now. Me on a date with a guy that drives a big truck:

Me: So...are you in construction?
Him: No, why?
Me: Just wondering why you drive that big truck.
Him: Oh, well I'm an MMM devotee and I'm really into thriftiness.
Me: Er, huh?
Him: Well, it was so much cheaper than a Tesla Roadster.

exranger06

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #52 on: March 31, 2014, 01:03:58 PM »
FWIW, both my fiancee and my ex-girlfriend have said that my truck was one of my umm, selling points? Something to that effect; in other words, they thought it was hot and it made me more attractive. It's not even a huge ridiculous thing either; it's a completely stock Ranger. I'm sure I could've gotten both women without the truck, but it certainly didn't hurt. :) Of course, that's not why I have the truck. I do haul things and utilize the 4wd fairly often.

James

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #53 on: March 31, 2014, 01:23:47 PM »
I live in northern Wisconsin, and most guys I know drive trucks. Most of the ones that don't drive SUVs, and a very small minority drive something else. I do feel a bit awkward pulling up to work in my subaru outback or minivan and parking next to the nice trucks other guys drive. I have no problem with my manhood, I am happy with what I drive, I never get ridiculed and I don't think anyone else notices or would notice whatever the hell I drive as a factor of my manhood. I can't wait to downsize my current vehicles to something even smaller, and will do so whenever it works for me.

I'm not sure what any of that means. I absolutely loved driving a big truck. I bought a big F250 truck when I moved to town just because I wanted to drive a big truck. But now I know better and I don't anymore. I don't feel bad about enjoying driving a big truck and I don't feel bad about driving a small car. Is there a sense of "power" and "manliness" when you sit behind a big-ass vehicle and drive it around? Absolutely. Same with eating big steak, drinking dark beer, having large muscles, etc. Doesn't mean we are controlled by those things, being mustachian is being very much in control and making decisions that make the most sense. But they exist just the same.

So validate your sisters thoughts and agree that you are rejecting one small reason to drive a truck (valid to varying degrees based on your location and many other factors) because you have a bigger reason not to. Lots and lots of big reasons not to.

Elaine

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #54 on: March 31, 2014, 01:28:34 PM »
Here's another question: do you want to date someone who thinks that the kind of vehicle you drive is a reflection of who you are?

I personally would not.

warfreak2

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #55 on: March 31, 2014, 01:43:01 PM »
I ride a bike, and never even had a single driving lesson; I'd say that does reflect (part of) who I am.

greaper007

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #56 on: March 31, 2014, 01:46:20 PM »
If you want to REALLY attract the right woman, buy a vintage roadbike.    Anyone that can spot the sexiness of that vehicle has to be a keeper.

I was driving a 14 year old maxima when I met my wife.   I don't even think she knew the difference between that and a truck.   Do all of you guys hang out on the set of country music videos or perhaps frequent Bob's Country Bunker on weeknights?    Beyond some cheesy 80s movie, I don't think I've ever heard of women being attracted to a car.

Flaneur

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #57 on: March 31, 2014, 01:49:40 PM »
Hybrids are still not cost efficient so a smaller cheaper car that uses more gas is a better choice unless you care more about pollution than money but how much are you willing to pay and how much of an impact is a prius going to make vs a small car?

This isn't true.

A relative of mine chose a Prius after we performed a COA analysis and found that after ~8 years of ownership the hybrids begin to cost a lot less than fuel vehicles, even sooner if you log a lot of miles. Vis a vis the Civic Hybrid costs less to own than the standard Civic. Also, consider that the cost of fuel is going to increase as the developing world begins to demand more while the cost of electric powered and hybrid vehicles will decrease as more competition enters the market. If I didn't need a truck for work I'd insta-buy a Prius or Civic hybrid for the savings -- completely ignoring the environmental impact.

One way to look at it is by purchasing a hybrid you're closing your short position on the price of fuel for your vehicle and going long on energy.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 01:54:00 PM by Flaneur »

TrulyStashin

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #58 on: March 31, 2014, 01:51:29 PM »
I drive a Prius.

Last summer, when my 16 y.o. son started driving, his dad (my ex-husband) told him that it was emasculating for him to drive my Prius.  Seriously?!

It seemed wise to neutralize that situation so I started calling the Prius the "EmasculoMobile."  The taunting stopped.  My son may even be driving the EmasculoMobile to prom next month.  Awesome.


gobius

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #59 on: March 31, 2014, 02:06:36 PM »
In my experience, people who consider trucks "manly" are the same people who consider people in the military the pinnacle of manliness.  I'm not one of them but many people are.

I'd say you're fine.  You have a pension and free healthcare. 

If someone gives you crap for having a car, just tell them, "Yeah, I am paying for this with my military pension.  Now thank me for my service and get the f**k out of my face."

randymarsh

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #60 on: March 31, 2014, 02:18:34 PM »
I drive a Prius.

Last summer, when my 16 y.o. son started driving, his dad (my ex-husband) told him that it was emasculating for him to drive my Prius.  Seriously?!

Haha, I drove my mom's VW Beetle a few times in high school.  I was just happy to have a vehicle to drive while my car was in the shop.

Annamal

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #61 on: March 31, 2014, 02:21:08 PM »
I drive a Prius.

Last summer, when my 16 y.o. son started driving, his dad (my ex-husband) told him that it was emasculating for him to drive my Prius.  Seriously?!

It seemed wise to neutralize that situation so I started calling the Prius the "EmasculoMobile."  The taunting stopped.  My son may even be driving the EmasculoMobile to prom next month.  Awesome.

Very very cool!

Your ex sounds like he lacks confidence in his own gender identity, I'm sorry he feels that way.

greaper007

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #62 on: March 31, 2014, 02:21:45 PM »
I drive a Prius.

Last summer, when my 16 y.o. son started driving, his dad (my ex-husband) told him that it was emasculating for him to drive my Prius.  Seriously?!

It seemed wise to neutralize that situation so I started calling the Prius the "EmasculoMobile."  The taunting stopped.  My son may even be driving the EmasculoMobile to prom next month.  Awesome.

Why, did you glue a box of tampons to the roof?   

greaper007

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #63 on: March 31, 2014, 02:26:09 PM »
Hybrids are still not cost efficient so a smaller cheaper car that uses more gas is a better choice unless you care more about pollution than money but how much are you willing to pay and how much of an impact is a prius going to make vs a small car?

This isn't true.

A relative of mine chose a Prius after we performed a COA analysis and found that after ~8 years of ownership the hybrids begin to cost a lot less than fuel vehicles, even sooner if you log a lot of miles. Vis a vis the Civic Hybrid costs less to own than the standard Civic. Also, consider that the cost of fuel is going to increase as the developing world begins to demand more while the cost of electric powered and hybrid vehicles will decrease as more competition enters the market. If I didn't need a truck for work I'd insta-buy a Prius or Civic hybrid for the savings -- completely ignoring the environmental impact.

One way to look at it is by purchasing a hybrid you're closing your short position on the price of fuel for your vehicle and going long on energy.


Agreed, I think we broke even 3 years after we bought our civic hybrid.    Once you add tax rebates to the equation the purchase price between a hybrid and pure Dino car is minimal.    I think it was 2-3k for us.    Out civic is an 07 and I figure I can get another 10 years out of it without any major expenses beyond a battery pack rebuild.

Jamesqf

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #64 on: March 31, 2014, 03:24:26 PM »
Some of it is hiding from it. Some is just lack of choice or information. Fast food is cheaper than meat and vegetables. Hybrids are still not cost efficient so a smaller cheaper car that uses more gas is a better choice unless you care more about pollution than money...


Not sure which side of the information gap you're choosing to stand on here.  Cooking from scratch IS cheaper than fast food, or it can be (obviously not if you choose to cook organic filet every night :-).  Buying many hybrids IS cost-efficient over an otherwise similar car: comparing the cost of a new Prius vs a 20 year old Civic is NOT apples-apples :-)

I absolutely loved driving a big truck. I bought a big F250 truck when I moved to town just because I wanted to drive a big truck.

There's a personal taste gap here, too.  I effing HATE having to drive big vehicles and/or ones that sit you high up, and always have.  (My past experience includes driving logging trucks and various heavy equipment, so I've had practice - but that was just work: I'd get out of the cab and drive my Austin-Healey or bike home.)  So if I was interested in spending money on automotive status symbols, it'd be the Lotus or Porsche.

But that in turn gets us into asking WHY so many people seem to like big/high vehicles, and the only answer that seems to fit at all is that they must be compensating for some form of insecurity.

brewer12345

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #65 on: March 31, 2014, 05:04:21 PM »
Everything on the internet is at least somewhat tongue in cheek.  With that said, choosing to buy extra oil does mean choosing to send your hard earned dollars out of the American economy and into Middle Eastern economies which support terrorists.  I always find it funny when rednecks say they only "buy American" when referring to their vehicles, but then proceed to spend more on gas from terrorist states than they spent on the vehicle from Detroit.  American car manufacturers work very hard to maintain that level of cognitive dissonance in their target demographic.

Hmmm...  The US is actively engaged in exporting ever greater volumes of refined products, so I am not sure your suggestion that burning gas and diesel supports terrorist states.  Most of the oil from the gulf seems to be getting hovered up by China, Japan and the like.  I very much doubt more than 5% of the gas I have bought in the last year started out as anything other than US produced crude.

you are correct in that our reliance on foreign oil is decreasing and our exports of refined petroleum products are increasing. the 5% number is still much too small, though. relevant snippets from the EIA website:

  • "The U.S. became a (slight) net exporter (exported more than we imported) of refined petroleum products in 2008. Refined petroleum products produced in the U.S. from both domestic and imported crude oil are exported to other countries. The volume of net exports of refined products in December 2012 was equivalent to about 8.5% of the total volume of U.S. petroleum consumption in December 2012." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=268&t=6
  • "In 2012, about 40% of the petroleum consumed by the United States was imported from foreign countries.1 This was the lowest level since 1991." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=32&t=6
  • "'Petroleum' includes crude oil and refined petroleum products like gasoline, and biofuels like ethanol and biodiesel. In 2012, about 80% of gross petroleum imports were crude oil, and about 57% of all crude oil that was processed in U.S. refineries was imported." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6
  • "The top five source countries of U.S. petroleum imports in 2012 were Canada, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and Russia. Their respective rankings vary based on gross petroleum imports or net petroleum imports (gross imports minus exports).  Net imports from OPEC countries accounted for 55% of U.S. net imports." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6

I take all this to mean that if the gas you purchased last year was representative of overall crude oil consumed in the US, then ~60% was from US crude, ~22% from OPEC countries, and ~18% from other foreign countries (assuming exports to a country cancel out imports from that country). not meaning to nitpick, I just think energy is really interesting and I always like to look stuff up to make sure I'm getting it right :)

and on that note, I should wrap up my lunch break and get back to trying to crack the Next Big Mid-Continent Liquids Play(TM) ;)

I live in the middle of the country and am surrounded by oil production regions.  The stuff I buy is not representative of the country as a whole (East Coast would be vastly more dependent on imprted crude and products than where I live).  If more than 5% of the stuff I buy is from outside the US, it is coming from that nefarious terrorist state Canada.

greaper007

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2014, 05:43:36 PM »
Everything on the internet is at least somewhat tongue in cheek.  With that said, choosing to buy extra oil does mean choosing to send your hard earned dollars out of the American economy and into Middle Eastern economies which support terrorists.  I always find it funny when rednecks say they only "buy American" when referring to their vehicles, but then proceed to spend more on gas from terrorist states than they spent on the vehicle from Detroit.  American car manufacturers work very hard to maintain that level of cognitive dissonance in their target demographic.

Hmmm...  The US is actively engaged in exporting ever greater volumes of refined products, so I am not sure your suggestion that burning gas and diesel supports terrorist states.  Most of the oil from the gulf seems to be getting hovered up by China, Japan and the like.  I very much doubt more than 5% of the gas I have bought in the last year started out as anything other than US produced crude.

you are correct in that our reliance on foreign oil is decreasing and our exports of refined petroleum products are increasing. the 5% number is still much too small, though. relevant snippets from the EIA website:

  • "The U.S. became a (slight) net exporter (exported more than we imported) of refined petroleum products in 2008. Refined petroleum products produced in the U.S. from both domestic and imported crude oil are exported to other countries. The volume of net exports of refined products in December 2012 was equivalent to about 8.5% of the total volume of U.S. petroleum consumption in December 2012." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=268&t=6
  • "In 2012, about 40% of the petroleum consumed by the United States was imported from foreign countries.1 This was the lowest level since 1991." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=32&t=6
  • "'Petroleum' includes crude oil and refined petroleum products like gasoline, and biofuels like ethanol and biodiesel. In 2012, about 80% of gross petroleum imports were crude oil, and about 57% of all crude oil that was processed in U.S. refineries was imported." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6
  • "The top five source countries of U.S. petroleum imports in 2012 were Canada, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and Russia. Their respective rankings vary based on gross petroleum imports or net petroleum imports (gross imports minus exports).  Net imports from OPEC countries accounted for 55% of U.S. net imports." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6

I take all this to mean that if the gas you purchased last year was representative of overall crude oil consumed in the US, then ~60% was from US crude, ~22% from OPEC countries, and ~18% from other foreign countries (assuming exports to a country cancel out imports from that country). not meaning to nitpick, I just think energy is really interesting and I always like to look stuff up to make sure I'm getting it right :)

and on that note, I should wrap up my lunch break and get back to trying to crack the Next Big Mid-Continent Liquids Play(TM) ;)

I live in the middle of the country and am surrounded by oil production regions.  The stuff I buy is not representative of the country as a whole (East Coast would be vastly more dependent on imprted crude and products than where I live).  If more than 5% of the stuff I buy is from outside the US, it is coming from that nefarious terrorist state Canada.

And the Canadian oil sand junk is an environmental nightmare.    Anyway you slice it, we all need to burn less.  Especially people that burn 5 mpg to look "manly," not because they have to haul landscaping supplies for their livelihood.

DoubleDown

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #67 on: March 31, 2014, 06:01:19 PM »
We'd all like to believe that we're enlightened and therefore immune from the many subconscious signals that have a tremendous effect on our attractiveness to the opposite sex. We still have incredibly strong, caveman-era sensitivities to biological signals -- scents/pheromones, body chemistry, visual cues, vocal preferences, on and on. There's no doubt that some women find certain cars sexy, and others not so much (OP's sister as one example).

Now, I 100% agree the OP and anyone else should drive (or bike) whatever they want, and not give a flip what others might think about it, to the extent they can. But we can't fool ourselves that it doesn't matter to how others perceive us, or that "I wouldn't want to attract people who are so shallow they're caring about my car." Some perfectly reasonable, non-shallow women could be influenced by things like the kind of car a guy drives without even being aware of it, just like they're not even aware that the tone of a certain man's voice attracts her, or that broad shoulders do too. If a guy is feeling disadvantaged already with the opposite sex, it might not make sense to "pile on" and drive a car that is clearly not seen as desirable where they live.

I generally don't give a damn what others think about what kind of car I drive or anything else, but it makes sense to at least be aware that driving around a Prius in Lubbock, TX might be a disadvantage with the majority of the opposite sex there, just as driving an F250 truck among hipster women in Greenwich Village, NYC might be similarly disadvantaging.

Not to get into slippery slope arguments too much, but you could replace "kind of car I drive" with style of dress, getting fit or lifting weights, combing your hair, shaving your armpits, whitening your teeth, and so on. Lots of people do those things in part to attract members of the opposite sex and fit in. I'd say the kind of car a guy drives is (and should be) low on the list of things that draws female attention, but again, if you're already disadvantaged in that area, it might make sense to not purposely further disadvantage yourself by picking a car you know is going to turn off, say, 80% of the local preferences.

There's a fine line there somewhere. I could say, "Eh, I'm not interested in any woman that is shallow enough to care about my three foot long beard" and that's okay. But that would be done with a conscious awareness that if I live in LA, I'm likely turning off 99% of prospective mates who would never give a second thought to dating someone that looks like that.

But yeah, the confidence to drive whatever you want is likely going to outweigh 100 to 1 the actual car itself in terms of your attractiveness.

Zamboni

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2014, 06:38:36 PM »
Hmmm . . . I can tell you that, in my days of testing the computer dating waters, any man who had a picture of him with his car/truck on his profile got an immediate thumbs down regardless of the vehicle.  These were always nice vehicles, of course.  It was astounding how prevalent this type of photo was.  Second worst was shirtless photos.  I might get a kick out of a guy who has the confidence to post a photo of himself posing with his purple 1976 Gremlin.  Heck, I'd probably email that guy.

All this is to say, stay away from computer dating.  And it doesn't matter what kind of vehicle you drive (unless you really want chicks to dig you, in which case a fire truck is your best bet.)

brewer12345

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #69 on: March 31, 2014, 06:42:12 PM »
Everything on the internet is at least somewhat tongue in cheek.  With that said, choosing to buy extra oil does mean choosing to send your hard earned dollars out of the American economy and into Middle Eastern economies which support terrorists.  I always find it funny when rednecks say they only "buy American" when referring to their vehicles, but then proceed to spend more on gas from terrorist states than they spent on the vehicle from Detroit.  American car manufacturers work very hard to maintain that level of cognitive dissonance in their target demographic.

Hmmm...  The US is actively engaged in exporting ever greater volumes of refined products, so I am not sure your suggestion that burning gas and diesel supports terrorist states.  Most of the oil from the gulf seems to be getting hovered up by China, Japan and the like.  I very much doubt more than 5% of the gas I have bought in the last year started out as anything other than US produced crude.

you are correct in that our reliance on foreign oil is decreasing and our exports of refined petroleum products are increasing. the 5% number is still much too small, though. relevant snippets from the EIA website:

  • "The U.S. became a (slight) net exporter (exported more than we imported) of refined petroleum products in 2008. Refined petroleum products produced in the U.S. from both domestic and imported crude oil are exported to other countries. The volume of net exports of refined products in December 2012 was equivalent to about 8.5% of the total volume of U.S. petroleum consumption in December 2012." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=268&t=6
  • "In 2012, about 40% of the petroleum consumed by the United States was imported from foreign countries.1 This was the lowest level since 1991." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=32&t=6
  • "'Petroleum' includes crude oil and refined petroleum products like gasoline, and biofuels like ethanol and biodiesel. In 2012, about 80% of gross petroleum imports were crude oil, and about 57% of all crude oil that was processed in U.S. refineries was imported." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6
  • "The top five source countries of U.S. petroleum imports in 2012 were Canada, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and Russia. Their respective rankings vary based on gross petroleum imports or net petroleum imports (gross imports minus exports).  Net imports from OPEC countries accounted for 55% of U.S. net imports." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6

I take all this to mean that if the gas you purchased last year was representative of overall crude oil consumed in the US, then ~60% was from US crude, ~22% from OPEC countries, and ~18% from other foreign countries (assuming exports to a country cancel out imports from that country). not meaning to nitpick, I just think energy is really interesting and I always like to look stuff up to make sure I'm getting it right :)

and on that note, I should wrap up my lunch break and get back to trying to crack the Next Big Mid-Continent Liquids Play(TM) ;)

I live in the middle of the country and am surrounded by oil production regions.  The stuff I buy is not representative of the country as a whole (East Coast would be vastly more dependent on imprted crude and products than where I live).  If more than 5% of the stuff I buy is from outside the US, it is coming from that nefarious terrorist state Canada.

And the Canadian oil sand junk is an environmental nightmare.    Anyway you slice it, we all need to burn less.  Especially people that burn 5 mpg to look "manly," not because they have to haul landscaping supplies for their livelihood.

Ah, but we were supporting terrorism via oil purchases.  If you want to talk about environmental consequences likely the choice of vehicle is largely besides the point vs. many other lifestyle choices.

That said, driving a guzzler for no good reason is silly for sure.  I own and drive an F150, but I don't drive a whole lot and I actually do have a use for a pickup that a car or whatever will not satisfy

kkbmustang

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #70 on: March 31, 2014, 06:53:32 PM »
Did I mention he's a black belt? I should probably mention that first.

So am I!  What art?  We could get shitty and have a friendly sparring match, sol The American vs your brother The Terrorist.  I still don't see how this could possible go wrong.


I'm not sure which art, but in his own words he's a "lethal weapon." Fun times.

Ahh, that guy.

Pretty much. I love him to the moon, but we could not be more different if we tried.

iwasjustwondering

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #71 on: March 31, 2014, 06:56:15 PM »

I already have a hard time with dating...would this add another check mark against me??? It would suck to be profiled...I promise I'm pretty manly, I can fix just about anything.

Disclaimer: I'm not really hurt by this, I could care less but thought it would make an interesting topic. Looking fwd to your replies!
 

No no no no no.  IMO, it is not manly to care about a car.  Materialism is gross.  I went on a date with a guy once, and he had a BMW.  So I casually said, "nice car."  He looked deep into my eyes, and said, "But at the end of the day... it's just a car."  I was like, um, yeah.  I know.

My boyfriend drives some kind of an inexpensive hatchback.  I was really thrilled when I saw it.  It told me he had his priorities in order.  He is extremely modest, although he has a lot to be proud of.  He is a "small hat, lots of cattle" type of guy, and he impresses the heck out of me.

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #72 on: March 31, 2014, 07:01:12 PM »
But yeah, the confidence to drive whatever you want is likely going to outweigh 100 to 1 the actual car itself in terms of your attractiveness.

Agree. I think women are attracted to confidence more than anything else. In my experience and watching other guys, confidence, or lack of it, seems to trump everything else. Although guys that are super confident without good reason seem to have trouble keeping a girl around.

Maybe some ladies will weigh in here, although I'm not sure you girls know what you want anyway, hehe. Recently my girlfriend commented that she wasn't able to tell if I was interested in her when we first met. I explained that although I was very into her from the start, I had to play it cool to keep her intrigued. She then admitted that she had always gotten bored when previous guys had crossed that fine line too soon. Oh what fun games; glad that stuff is over with! : )

kkbmustang

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #73 on: March 31, 2014, 07:10:08 PM »
But yeah, the confidence to drive whatever you want is likely going to outweigh 100 to 1 the actual car itself in terms of your attractiveness.

Agree. I think women are attracted to confidence more than anything else. In my experience and watching other guys, confidence, or lack of it, seems to trump everything else. Although guys that are super confident without good reason seem to have trouble keeping a girl around.

Maybe some ladies will weigh in here, although I'm not sure you girls know what you want anyway, hehe. Recently my girlfriend commented that she wasn't able to tell if I was interested in her when we first met. I explained that although I was very into her from the start, I had to play it cool to keep her intrigued. She then admitted that she had always gotten bored when previous guys had crossed that fine line too soon. Oh what fun games; glad that stuff is over with! : )

Um, yeah. No need to patronize the women on this board. That's even more unattractive than a huge pick-up truck.

Edited to add that my husband thought you were just trying to make a joke. So, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. But it wasn't really that funny.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 07:14:16 PM by kkbmustang »

bikebum

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #74 on: March 31, 2014, 07:43:29 PM »
But yeah, the confidence to drive whatever you want is likely going to outweigh 100 to 1 the actual car itself in terms of your attractiveness.

Agree. I think women are attracted to confidence more than anything else. In my experience and watching other guys, confidence, or lack of it, seems to trump everything else. Although guys that are super confident without good reason seem to have trouble keeping a girl around.

Maybe some ladies will weigh in here, although I'm not sure you girls know what you want anyway, hehe. Recently my girlfriend commented that she wasn't able to tell if I was interested in her when we first met. I explained that although I was very into her from the start, I had to play it cool to keep her intrigued. She then admitted that she had always gotten bored when previous guys had crossed that fine line too soon. Oh what fun games; glad that stuff is over with! : )

Um, yeah. No need to patronize the women on this board. That's even more unattractive than a huge pick-up truck.

Edited to add that my husband thought you were just trying to make a joke. So, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. But it wasn't really that funny.

Sorry if I offended you or any other ladies here; I didn't mean to. I don't think men are any better when it comes to "playing games," or anything else.

kkbmustang

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #75 on: March 31, 2014, 08:05:50 PM »
But yeah, the confidence to drive whatever you want is likely going to outweigh 100 to 1 the actual car itself in terms of your attractiveness.

Agree. I think women are attracted to confidence more than anything else. In my experience and watching other guys, confidence, or lack of it, seems to trump everything else. Although guys that are super confident without good reason seem to have trouble keeping a girl around.

Maybe some ladies will weigh in here, although I'm not sure you girls know what you want anyway, hehe. Recently my girlfriend commented that she wasn't able to tell if I was interested in her when we first met. I explained that although I was very into her from the start, I had to play it cool to keep her intrigued. She then admitted that she had always gotten bored when previous guys had crossed that fine line too soon. Oh what fun games; glad that stuff is over with! : )

Um, yeah. No need to patronize the women on this board. That's even more unattractive than a huge pick-up truck.

Edited to add that my husband thought you were just trying to make a joke. So, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. But it wasn't really that funny.

Sorry if I offended you or any other ladies here; I didn't mean to. I don't think men are any better when it comes to "playing games," or anything else.

Yeah, ok. I'm not a big fan of relationship game playing, but I can't ignore the reality that it occurs. I just don't find it funny. My personal bias.

Virtual handshake?

TomTX

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #76 on: March 31, 2014, 08:11:15 PM »
I live in the middle of the country and am surrounded by oil production regions.  The stuff I buy is not representative of the country as a whole (East Coast would be vastly more dependent on imprted crude and products than where I live).  If more than 5% of the stuff I buy is from outside the US, it is coming from that nefarious terrorist state Canada.

Irrelevant to the topic at hand whether that particular barrel came from the Middle East. If you burned less oil, the USA would have to import less oil.

bikebum

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #77 on: March 31, 2014, 08:15:08 PM »
Virtual handshake?

Virtual handshake gladly accepted : )

DollarBill

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #78 on: March 31, 2014, 08:21:24 PM »
Hahaha…I knew this topic would be a winner. I came home from lunch anticipating the replies and I wasn’t let down. I laughed for 30 mins straight and chuckled the rest of the day thinking about it.

So many funny comments: penis jokes, Joe Deertay (Don’t church it up son), what could go wrong, he’s a lethal weapon, rob…6’2” in a smart car and I still laugh every time I see SOL’s picture on his posts (who is that by the way?).
 
It’s interesting when it comes to stereotypes. If you drive a big truck = Small penis. If you drive a Corvette = Midlife crises. If you drive a Prius = Tree hugger. If you drive a BMW = asshole. Mini Van = Family man. Expensive vehicle = Your broke. Beater = Your poor. People judge each other constantly…especially in the Military. Your hair is touching your ears; you look like a duffel bag; man up; Air Force = Chair Force; Army = Not tough enough for Marines and not smart enough for Air Force; Marines = Muscles are required. Follow orders no how dumb they are. Navy = They use the head, have a rear Admiral and have lots of seaman.
I love big trucks and I would rather drive them because they are easier to work on and I don’t have to rely on anybody. If I had my choice I would drive a full size Bronco with a 6 inch lift. I love them and it makes me happy. I don’t have a small penis…I have a good stack of dimes…lol. There is no relation to the size of one man’s penis compared to the size of their truck. I wish you wouldn’t compare the two.

Update: I shook hands and decided to buy the car. $10K for a 2012 car, thing still smells like a new car. Yes, high mileage but I couldn’t find any problems. Funny thing was I didn’t plan on any of it but it will pay for itself in a year or two.

brewer12345

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #79 on: March 31, 2014, 08:24:13 PM »
I live in the middle of the country and am surrounded by oil production regions.  The stuff I buy is not representative of the country as a whole (East Coast would be vastly more dependent on imprted crude and products than where I live).  If more than 5% of the stuff I buy is from outside the US, it is coming from that nefarious terrorist state Canada.

Irrelevant to the topic at hand whether that particular barrel came from the Middle East. If you burned less oil, the USA would have to import less oil.

Thus depriving those nefarious terrorists the Canadians of much needed income.

Meh.  Except for a hellacious 3.5 year period I have always taken public transportation for my commute.  Now I don't commute at all.  I heat the house with domestic natural gas and firewood that otherwise would have ended up in a dumpster.  I like my truck and will continue driving it.

kkbmustang

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #80 on: March 31, 2014, 08:31:17 PM »
Hahaha…I knew this topic would be a winner. I came home from lunch anticipating the replies and I wasn’t let down. I laughed for 30 mins straight and chuckled the rest of the day thinking about it.

So many funny comments: penis jokes, Joe Deertay (Don’t church it up son), what could go wrong, he’s a lethal weapon, rob…6’2” in a smart car and I still laugh every time I see SOL’s picture on his posts (who is that by the way?).
 
It’s interesting when it comes to stereotypes. If you drive a big truck = Small penis. If you drive a Corvette = Midlife crises. If you drive a Prius = Tree hugger. If you drive a BMW = asshole. Mini Van = Family man. Expensive vehicle = Your broke. Beater = Your poor. People judge each other constantly…especially in the Military. Your hair is touching your ears; you look like a duffel bag; man up; Air Force = Chair Force; Army = Not tough enough for Marines and not smart enough for Air Force; Marines = Muscles are required. Follow orders no how dumb they are. Navy = They use the head, have a rear Admiral and have lots of seaman.
I love big trucks and I would rather drive them because they are easier to work on and I don’t have to rely on anybody. If I had my choice I would drive a full size Bronco with a 6 inch lift. I love them and it makes me happy. I don’t have a small penis…I have a good stack of dimes…lol. There is no relation to the size of one man’s penis compared to the size of their truck. I wish you wouldn’t compare the two.

Update: I shook hands and decided to buy the car. $10K for a 2012 car, thing still smells like a new car. Yes, high mileage but I couldn’t find any problems. Funny thing was I didn’t plan on any of it but it will pay for itself in a year or two.

Just wanted to thank you for your service. Sincerely. I lived in the Middle East growing up and know what it means to have your heart ache for home. That feeling of pride in our country was and is heartfelt. And I have immense gratitude for those men and women serving her interests so I can crack jokes and become a financial badass on an Internet forum. So thank you.

Tempe

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #81 on: March 31, 2014, 08:32:32 PM »
I had a favourite science teacher in high school who made a comment on the guys who bought the trucks and tricked them out to make them louder or who revved them in the parking lot. He said unless you guys are looking to attract the looks of other guys at your vehicle, those changes are lost on the ladies.

kendallf

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #82 on: April 01, 2014, 01:59:22 AM »
I had a favourite science teacher in high school who made a comment on the guys who bought the trucks and tricked them out to make them louder or who revved them in the parking lot. He said unless you guys are looking to attract the looks of other guys at your vehicle, those changes are lost on the ladies.

LOL.. I love fast cars, and have had a bunch of them, including several Buick Grand Nationals (boxy mid 80s Buick Regal, for those who aren't car buffs).  People would ask me if women liked my car.  I'd say no, but if I were into 18 year old guys I'd be set!
 

DollarBill

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #83 on: April 01, 2014, 02:14:47 AM »
Quote
Just wanted to thank you for your service. Sincerely. I lived in the Middle East growing up and know what it means to have your heart ache for home. That feeling of pride in our country was and is heartfelt. And I have immense gratitude for those men and women serving her interests so I can crack jokes and become a financial badass on an Internet forum. So thank you.

Thank you!!

DollarBill

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #84 on: April 01, 2014, 02:18:39 AM »
Looking fwd to selling the Explorer. Hopefully I get a fair price to hedge the car deal. I'll keep you posted :).

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #85 on: April 01, 2014, 07:18:20 AM »
I live in the middle of the country and am surrounded by oil production regions.  The stuff I buy is not representative of the country as a whole (East Coast would be vastly more dependent on imprted crude and products than where I live).  If more than 5% of the stuff I buy is from outside the US, it is coming from that nefarious terrorist state Canada.

Irrelevant to the topic at hand whether that particular barrel came from the Middle East. If you burned less oil, the USA would have to import less oil.

exactly!

I live in the middle of the country and am surrounded by oil production regions.  The stuff I buy is not representative of the country as a whole (East Coast would be vastly more dependent on imprted crude and products than where I live).  If more than 5% of the stuff I buy is from outside the US, it is coming from that nefarious terrorist state Canada.

Irrelevant to the topic at hand whether that particular barrel came from the Middle East. If you burned less oil, the USA would have to import less oil.

Thus depriving those nefarious terrorists the Canadians of much needed income.

well, except for the nontrivial % that comes from OPEC (and Russia, and Venezuela, etc), like I said.

anyway, not trying to criticize your personal behaviors, just wanted to point out that saying 95% of the gas you buy in the US comes from US crude is factually incorrect. although I understand that you were talking about the specific tanks of gas you personally purchase in an oil-producing (refining?) region, since gasoline is basically fungible that's kind of irrelevant.

Elaine

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #86 on: April 01, 2014, 07:28:28 AM »
We'd all like to believe that we're enlightened and therefore immune from the many subconscious signals that have a tremendous effect on our attractiveness to the opposite sex. We still have incredibly strong, caveman-era sensitivities to biological signals -- scents/pheromones, body chemistry, visual cues, vocal preferences, on and on. There's no doubt that some women find certain cars sexy, and others not so much (OP's sister as one example).

Now, I 100% agree the OP and anyone else should drive (or bike) whatever they want, and not give a flip what others might think about it, to the extent they can. But we can't fool ourselves that it doesn't matter to how others perceive us, or that "I wouldn't want to attract people who are so shallow they're caring about my car." Some perfectly reasonable, non-shallow women could be influenced by things like the kind of car a guy drives without even being aware of it, just like they're not even aware that the tone of a certain man's voice attracts her, or that broad shoulders do too. If a guy is feeling disadvantaged already with the opposite sex, it might not make sense to "pile on" and drive a car that is clearly not seen as desirable where they live.

I generally don't give a damn what others think about what kind of car I drive or anything else, but it makes sense to at least be aware that driving around a Prius in Lubbock, TX might be a disadvantage with the majority of the opposite sex there, just as driving an F250 truck among hipster women in Greenwich Village, NYC might be similarly disadvantaging.

Not to get into slippery slope arguments too much, but you could replace "kind of car I drive" with style of dress, getting fit or lifting weights, combing your hair, shaving your armpits, whitening your teeth, and so on. Lots of people do those things in part to attract members of the opposite sex and fit in. I'd say the kind of car a guy drives is (and should be) low on the list of things that draws female attention, but again, if you're already disadvantaged in that area, it might make sense to not purposely further disadvantage yourself by picking a car you know is going to turn off, say, 80% of the local preferences.

There's a fine line there somewhere. I could say, "Eh, I'm not interested in any woman that is shallow enough to care about my three foot long beard" and that's okay. But that would be done with a conscious awareness that if I live in LA, I'm likely turning off 99% of prospective mates who would never give a second thought to dating someone that looks like that.

But yeah, the confidence to drive whatever you want is likely going to outweigh 100 to 1 the actual car itself in terms of your attractiveness.

Ok, I see what you are saying here and I agree with a lot of it. I grew up in a rural area in the Midwest where lots of guys did have trucks and it was very tied to "manliness". But, don't you think it's a bit extreme in terms of cost (this is MMM after all)? I mean, I participate in certain "lady" things- I wear some makeup, keep my hair nice, dress fashionably, etc. But the cost difference in buying versus not buying a $2 tube of mascara or a cute $15 top isn't nearly as big as buying a massive gas inefficient truck rather than a good mpg car. I totally agree that we are still influenced by things, but I can't imagine a woman meeting a decently in shape/attractive guy who is nice, smart and funny, and then refusing to date him because he drives a car. That seems equivalent to a guy not wanting to date me because I won't dye and straighten my hair, wear a full face of makeup every single day, and have $300 designer jeans. Seems a bit extreme to me.

frugalnacho

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #87 on: April 01, 2014, 07:44:43 AM »
Everything on the internet is at least somewhat tongue in cheek.  With that said, choosing to buy extra oil does mean choosing to send your hard earned dollars out of the American economy and into Middle Eastern economies which support terrorists.  I always find it funny when rednecks say they only "buy American" when referring to their vehicles, but then proceed to spend more on gas from terrorist states than they spent on the vehicle from Detroit.  American car manufacturers work very hard to maintain that level of cognitive dissonance in their target demographic.

Hmmm...  The US is actively engaged in exporting ever greater volumes of refined products, so I am not sure your suggestion that burning gas and diesel supports terrorist states.  Most of the oil from the gulf seems to be getting hovered up by China, Japan and the like.  I very much doubt more than 5% of the gas I have bought in the last year started out as anything other than US produced crude.

you are correct in that our reliance on foreign oil is decreasing and our exports of refined petroleum products are increasing. the 5% number is still much too small, though. relevant snippets from the EIA website:

  • "The U.S. became a (slight) net exporter (exported more than we imported) of refined petroleum products in 2008. Refined petroleum products produced in the U.S. from both domestic and imported crude oil are exported to other countries. The volume of net exports of refined products in December 2012 was equivalent to about 8.5% of the total volume of U.S. petroleum consumption in December 2012." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=268&t=6
  • "In 2012, about 40% of the petroleum consumed by the United States was imported from foreign countries.1 This was the lowest level since 1991." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=32&t=6
  • "'Petroleum' includes crude oil and refined petroleum products like gasoline, and biofuels like ethanol and biodiesel. In 2012, about 80% of gross petroleum imports were crude oil, and about 57% of all crude oil that was processed in U.S. refineries was imported." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6
  • "The top five source countries of U.S. petroleum imports in 2012 were Canada, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and Russia. Their respective rankings vary based on gross petroleum imports or net petroleum imports (gross imports minus exports).  Net imports from OPEC countries accounted for 55% of U.S. net imports." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6

I take all this to mean that if the gas you purchased last year was representative of overall crude oil consumed in the US, then ~60% was from US crude, ~22% from OPEC countries, and ~18% from other foreign countries (assuming exports to a country cancel out imports from that country). not meaning to nitpick, I just think energy is really interesting and I always like to look stuff up to make sure I'm getting it right :)

and on that note, I should wrap up my lunch break and get back to trying to crack the Next Big Mid-Continent Liquids Play(TM) ;)

I live in the middle of the country and am surrounded by oil production regions.  The stuff I buy is not representative of the country as a whole (East Coast would be vastly more dependent on imprted crude and products than where I live).  If more than 5% of the stuff I buy is from outside the US, it is coming from that nefarious terrorist state Canada.

What difference does it make if you consume an assload of local made US oil, and someone on the east coast the has to import oil from the middle east, or if you consume the oil from the middle east and ship your local made US oil over to the east coast?  Oil consumption is oil consumption and the US is still importing oil. 

brewer12345

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #88 on: April 01, 2014, 08:18:47 AM »
Everything on the internet is at least somewhat tongue in cheek.  With that said, choosing to buy extra oil does mean choosing to send your hard earned dollars out of the American economy and into Middle Eastern economies which support terrorists.  I always find it funny when rednecks say they only "buy American" when referring to their vehicles, but then proceed to spend more on gas from terrorist states than they spent on the vehicle from Detroit.  American car manufacturers work very hard to maintain that level of cognitive dissonance in their target demographic.

Hmmm...  The US is actively engaged in exporting ever greater volumes of refined products, so I am not sure your suggestion that burning gas and diesel supports terrorist states.  Most of the oil from the gulf seems to be getting hovered up by China, Japan and the like.  I very much doubt more than 5% of the gas I have bought in the last year started out as anything other than US produced crude.

you are correct in that our reliance on foreign oil is decreasing and our exports of refined petroleum products are increasing. the 5% number is still much too small, though. relevant snippets from the EIA website:

  • "The U.S. became a (slight) net exporter (exported more than we imported) of refined petroleum products in 2008. Refined petroleum products produced in the U.S. from both domestic and imported crude oil are exported to other countries. The volume of net exports of refined products in December 2012 was equivalent to about 8.5% of the total volume of U.S. petroleum consumption in December 2012." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=268&t=6
  • "In 2012, about 40% of the petroleum consumed by the United States was imported from foreign countries.1 This was the lowest level since 1991." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=32&t=6
  • "'Petroleum' includes crude oil and refined petroleum products like gasoline, and biofuels like ethanol and biodiesel. In 2012, about 80% of gross petroleum imports were crude oil, and about 57% of all crude oil that was processed in U.S. refineries was imported." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6
  • "The top five source countries of U.S. petroleum imports in 2012 were Canada, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and Russia. Their respective rankings vary based on gross petroleum imports or net petroleum imports (gross imports minus exports).  Net imports from OPEC countries accounted for 55% of U.S. net imports." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6

I take all this to mean that if the gas you purchased last year was representative of overall crude oil consumed in the US, then ~60% was from US crude, ~22% from OPEC countries, and ~18% from other foreign countries (assuming exports to a country cancel out imports from that country). not meaning to nitpick, I just think energy is really interesting and I always like to look stuff up to make sure I'm getting it right :)

and on that note, I should wrap up my lunch break and get back to trying to crack the Next Big Mid-Continent Liquids Play(TM) ;)

I live in the middle of the country and am surrounded by oil production regions.  The stuff I buy is not representative of the country as a whole (East Coast would be vastly more dependent on imprted crude and products than where I live).  If more than 5% of the stuff I buy is from outside the US, it is coming from that nefarious terrorist state Canada.

What difference does it make if you consume an assload of local made US oil, and someone on the east coast the has to import oil from the middle east, or if you consume the oil from the middle east and ship your local made US oil over to the east coast?  Oil consumption is oil consumption and the US is still importing oil.

It does not particularly matter to me personally, just to those with "issues" about this sort of thing.  I can't tell the difference between one gallon of gas and another, can you?  And as an investor with an outsized stake in US, on-shore oil and gas producing equities, I would be more than happy to see the US be a significant exporter especially of natural gas.

frugalnacho

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #89 on: April 01, 2014, 08:23:32 AM »
Everything on the internet is at least somewhat tongue in cheek.  With that said, choosing to buy extra oil does mean choosing to send your hard earned dollars out of the American economy and into Middle Eastern economies which support terrorists.  I always find it funny when rednecks say they only "buy American" when referring to their vehicles, but then proceed to spend more on gas from terrorist states than they spent on the vehicle from Detroit.  American car manufacturers work very hard to maintain that level of cognitive dissonance in their target demographic.

Hmmm...  The US is actively engaged in exporting ever greater volumes of refined products, so I am not sure your suggestion that burning gas and diesel supports terrorist states.  Most of the oil from the gulf seems to be getting hovered up by China, Japan and the like.  I very much doubt more than 5% of the gas I have bought in the last year started out as anything other than US produced crude.

you are correct in that our reliance on foreign oil is decreasing and our exports of refined petroleum products are increasing. the 5% number is still much too small, though. relevant snippets from the EIA website:

  • "The U.S. became a (slight) net exporter (exported more than we imported) of refined petroleum products in 2008. Refined petroleum products produced in the U.S. from both domestic and imported crude oil are exported to other countries. The volume of net exports of refined products in December 2012 was equivalent to about 8.5% of the total volume of U.S. petroleum consumption in December 2012." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=268&t=6
  • "In 2012, about 40% of the petroleum consumed by the United States was imported from foreign countries.1 This was the lowest level since 1991." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=32&t=6
  • "'Petroleum' includes crude oil and refined petroleum products like gasoline, and biofuels like ethanol and biodiesel. In 2012, about 80% of gross petroleum imports were crude oil, and about 57% of all crude oil that was processed in U.S. refineries was imported." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6
  • "The top five source countries of U.S. petroleum imports in 2012 were Canada, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and Russia. Their respective rankings vary based on gross petroleum imports or net petroleum imports (gross imports minus exports).  Net imports from OPEC countries accounted for 55% of U.S. net imports." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6

I take all this to mean that if the gas you purchased last year was representative of overall crude oil consumed in the US, then ~60% was from US crude, ~22% from OPEC countries, and ~18% from other foreign countries (assuming exports to a country cancel out imports from that country). not meaning to nitpick, I just think energy is really interesting and I always like to look stuff up to make sure I'm getting it right :)

and on that note, I should wrap up my lunch break and get back to trying to crack the Next Big Mid-Continent Liquids Play(TM) ;)

I live in the middle of the country and am surrounded by oil production regions.  The stuff I buy is not representative of the country as a whole (East Coast would be vastly more dependent on imprted crude and products than where I live).  If more than 5% of the stuff I buy is from outside the US, it is coming from that nefarious terrorist state Canada.

What difference does it make if you consume an assload of local made US oil, and someone on the east coast the has to import oil from the middle east, or if you consume the oil from the middle east and ship your local made US oil over to the east coast?  Oil consumption is oil consumption and the US is still importing oil.

It does not particularly matter to me personally, just to those with "issues" about this sort of thing.  I can't tell the difference between one gallon of gas and another, can you?  And as an investor with an outsized stake in US, on-shore oil and gas producing equities, I would be more than happy to see the US be a significant exporter especially of natural gas.

I'm just questioning your logic that you don't support terrorist states because you buy american made gas.  Every gallon of american gas you consume means one more gallon the US has to import.  I don't need to be able to differentiate between american and middle east gas to understand that.

Heather

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #90 on: April 01, 2014, 08:41:27 AM »
I have noticed that the people with the black man-toy pickup trucks are the most likely to cut me off on the road, or otherwise be road-jerks.  As a result I have developed a terrible prejudice against people who drive them.  A neighbour of ours has one, and he has demonstrated repeatedly that he is a super nice and generous guy, but I still can't shake the tiny grain of mistrust that the vehicle causes.    Run, don't walk, away from buying a show-off pickup truck.

If you want to look manly, train for and run a triathlon. 
Or, build something.  A shed, a house, a cabin.




brewer12345

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #91 on: April 01, 2014, 08:42:12 AM »
Everything on the internet is at least somewhat tongue in cheek.  With that said, choosing to buy extra oil does mean choosing to send your hard earned dollars out of the American economy and into Middle Eastern economies which support terrorists.  I always find it funny when rednecks say they only "buy American" when referring to their vehicles, but then proceed to spend more on gas from terrorist states than they spent on the vehicle from Detroit.  American car manufacturers work very hard to maintain that level of cognitive dissonance in their target demographic.

Hmmm...  The US is actively engaged in exporting ever greater volumes of refined products, so I am not sure your suggestion that burning gas and diesel supports terrorist states.  Most of the oil from the gulf seems to be getting hovered up by China, Japan and the like.  I very much doubt more than 5% of the gas I have bought in the last year started out as anything other than US produced crude.

you are correct in that our reliance on foreign oil is decreasing and our exports of refined petroleum products are increasing. the 5% number is still much too small, though. relevant snippets from the EIA website:

  • "The U.S. became a (slight) net exporter (exported more than we imported) of refined petroleum products in 2008. Refined petroleum products produced in the U.S. from both domestic and imported crude oil are exported to other countries. The volume of net exports of refined products in December 2012 was equivalent to about 8.5% of the total volume of U.S. petroleum consumption in December 2012." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=268&t=6
  • "In 2012, about 40% of the petroleum consumed by the United States was imported from foreign countries.1 This was the lowest level since 1991." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=32&t=6
  • "'Petroleum' includes crude oil and refined petroleum products like gasoline, and biofuels like ethanol and biodiesel. In 2012, about 80% of gross petroleum imports were crude oil, and about 57% of all crude oil that was processed in U.S. refineries was imported." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6
  • "The top five source countries of U.S. petroleum imports in 2012 were Canada, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and Russia. Their respective rankings vary based on gross petroleum imports or net petroleum imports (gross imports minus exports).  Net imports from OPEC countries accounted for 55% of U.S. net imports." http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6

I take all this to mean that if the gas you purchased last year was representative of overall crude oil consumed in the US, then ~60% was from US crude, ~22% from OPEC countries, and ~18% from other foreign countries (assuming exports to a country cancel out imports from that country). not meaning to nitpick, I just think energy is really interesting and I always like to look stuff up to make sure I'm getting it right :)

and on that note, I should wrap up my lunch break and get back to trying to crack the Next Big Mid-Continent Liquids Play(TM) ;)

I live in the middle of the country and am surrounded by oil production regions.  The stuff I buy is not representative of the country as a whole (East Coast would be vastly more dependent on imprted crude and products than where I live).  If more than 5% of the stuff I buy is from outside the US, it is coming from that nefarious terrorist state Canada.

What difference does it make if you consume an assload of local made US oil, and someone on the east coast the has to import oil from the middle east, or if you consume the oil from the middle east and ship your local made US oil over to the east coast?  Oil consumption is oil consumption and the US is still importing oil.

It does not particularly matter to me personally, just to those with "issues" about this sort of thing.  I can't tell the difference between one gallon of gas and another, can you?  And as an investor with an outsized stake in US, on-shore oil and gas producing equities, I would be more than happy to see the US be a significant exporter especially of natural gas.

I'm just questioning your logic that you don't support terrorist states because you buy american made gas.  Every gallon of american gas you consume means one more gallon the US has to import.  I don't need to be able to differentiate between american and middle east gas to understand that.

Well, since you seem to want to split hairs, it is a good deal more complicated than that in the real world.  In the CONUS oil and gas markets are regional and the entire industry is short on pipeline capacity due to increased domestic production and a resulting change in trade flows.  I used to live in NJ, which has lots of refineries and no oil production.  All the oil either was brought from inland in the US or (more commonly) imported from wherever (including lovely places like Venezuela).  I live in CO now which is in and surrounded by oil and gas producing areas and easily placed to pick up some Canadian crude on its way farther south.  There could be some crude from other countries hitting the local refineries, but it would be small amounts since it costs money to move this stuff around (and therefore you would not do so without good reason) and the local producing areas pump out way more stuff than is consumed here.

Again, splitting hairs.  If we allowed the export of crude oil (currently illegal), you would likely see net imports fall.

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #92 on: April 01, 2014, 08:55:20 AM »
Well, since you seem to want to split hairs, it is a good deal more complicated than that in the real world.  In the CONUS oil and gas markets are regional and the entire industry is short on pipeline capacity due to increased domestic production and a resulting change in trade flows.  I used to live in NJ, which has lots of refineries and no oil production.  All the oil either was brought from inland in the US or (more commonly) imported from wherever (including lovely places like Venezuela).  I live in CO now which is in and surrounded by oil and gas producing areas and easily placed to pick up some Canadian crude on its way farther south.  There could be some crude from other countries hitting the local refineries, but it would be small amounts since it costs money to move this stuff around (and therefore you would not do so without good reason) and the local producing areas pump out way more stuff than is consumed here.

Again, splitting hairs.  If we allowed the export of crude oil (currently illegal), you would likely see net imports fall.

wait, what?

if exports increase (from zero)...
and domestic production and consumption stay the same...
wouldn't gross imports have to increase to match the new exports, i.e. net imports would stay the same?

(unless you are implying that allowing crude exports would do something to increase domestic production) (it might, I don't know enough about oil pricing to comment intelligently on that)

brewer12345

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #93 on: April 01, 2014, 09:06:31 AM »
Well, since you seem to want to split hairs, it is a good deal more complicated than that in the real world.  In the CONUS oil and gas markets are regional and the entire industry is short on pipeline capacity due to increased domestic production and a resulting change in trade flows.  I used to live in NJ, which has lots of refineries and no oil production.  All the oil either was brought from inland in the US or (more commonly) imported from wherever (including lovely places like Venezuela).  I live in CO now which is in and surrounded by oil and gas producing areas and easily placed to pick up some Canadian crude on its way farther south.  There could be some crude from other countries hitting the local refineries, but it would be small amounts since it costs money to move this stuff around (and therefore you would not do so without good reason) and the local producing areas pump out way more stuff than is consumed here.

Again, splitting hairs.  If we allowed the export of crude oil (currently illegal), you would likely see net imports fall.

wait, what?

if exports increase (from zero)...
and domestic production and consumption stay the same...
wouldn't gross imports have to increase to match the new exports, i.e. net imports would stay the same?

(unless you are implying that allowing crude exports would do something to increase domestic production) (it might, I don't know enough about oil pricing to comment intelligently on that)

Right now it is illegal to export crude, but legal to export refined products.  The price of Brent crude (widely quoted alternative to US benchmark) is about $10/barrel higher than the benchmark US crude.  The market is saying that it wants US exports, but it is not allowed.  So refiners are madly producing enough to satisfy US demand as well as be able to export.  And a number of refineries are being constructed to make "light oil" which is the least refined thing you are legally allowed to export.  Nobody really wants this stuff, so it will have to be further refined when it gets to its destination, but this is the easiest, simplest to refine stuff you can make so they are ramping up to pump it out.  Stupid, eh?

If the price of US crude rises $10 production will increase without a doubt.  Producers are very able to ramp up production and can and do respond to higher prices with greater production.

warfreak2

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #94 on: April 01, 2014, 09:09:42 AM »
Every gallon of american gas you consume means one more gallon the US has to import.
Not quite true, as US oil production also reacts to demand (c.f. "Drill, baby, drill!", and fracking).

frugalnacho

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #95 on: April 01, 2014, 09:25:08 AM »
It's still a limited resource and offsetting imports to a future date.

brewer12345

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #96 on: April 01, 2014, 09:37:08 AM »
It's still a limited resource and offsetting imports to a future date.

True, more or less, but besides the point of your hair splitting.

warfreak2

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #97 on: April 01, 2014, 09:42:32 AM »
It's still a limited resource and offsetting imports to a future date.
By this logic, all oil will eventually be consumed so it doesn't matter how fast we do it.

MayDay

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #98 on: April 01, 2014, 09:47:52 AM »
Not currently dating, but I will chime in with another lady-opinion.

Trucks- ick. Not going to date you unless you are a construction worker or something and it is your work vehicle. AndiI grew up in small town Midwest! But I am a dirty hippie tree hugger.

I also definitely judge what I perceive to be cheap/unreliable cars, ie dodge neon, etc. That is probably unfair since many domestic cars have hugely improved, but my brain still thinks "ooh, he is driving a honda/Toyota, he must be smart, lets make smart babies together".  Unless it is a honda/Toyota truck or suv, then refer back to my truck opinion!

Is it unfair to judge based on that? Yep. But you gotta narrow the field down somehow, and starting with a person's most expensive possession outside of their house seems like a good place to start.

Upon reflection a suburu might be the best balance of manliness  and hippiness.

frugalnacho

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Re: Vehicle Manliness
« Reply #99 on: April 01, 2014, 09:49:13 AM »
It's still a limited resource and offsetting imports to a future date.
By this logic, all oil will eventually be consumed so it doesn't matter how fast we do it.

Not quite.  The discussion was about where the money flows to.  If everyone in the us stops using oil entirely, there will be no money flowing to non-US oil producing countries from the US - ever.  If that trend continued then all oil in the world would eventually get used up, and money would flow into the US for their oil and oil based products. 

It's not like we are discussing corn here, where I can go plant and produce more corn.  We can drill for more oil, but that just means we are extracting and using our supply faster.  We can't just create more oil just because there is more demand.