Vacation policy changed after I was hired

[elaine amj]

I'm wondering how I should handle this situation. When I was hired, I was offered 3 weeks vacation. Our HR policy at that time stated that every 5 years, we would get an extra week of vacation up to a certain limit. After I had been there 3 years, they did a huge update of the HR policy and new hires were started at 2 weeks vacation (with an extra week added after 5 years and so on). Since all other revisions apply to me, my understanding is that this one does too and I'm expected to be grateful that I continued to get 3 weeks vacation.

Now I have been here 5 years. I am having my annual performance evaluation next week and want to bring this up. I really want my extra week of vacation (my vacation days are gold to me lol). Unfortunately, I have a feeling they will say "no". I was really stupid in that I didn't say a single word when they announced the revision of the HR policy 2 years ago. I should have protested, and didn't. I do have a problem with not being assertive enough in demanding my rights. I had no raises (or evaluations lol) for my first 3 years because our finances were a mess and our leadership was in constant transition.

How hard should I push about this? A couple of years back I asked about getting an extra week's vacation in lieu of a raise (would have been cheaper for them!) but was denied "because it would look bad to the other co-workers". My boss does like to keep an appearance of fairness across the board. They do treat us pretty well and are overall fairly generous. However, they don't really like to do things out of the norm. I had to leave for a month unexpectedly at the beginning of this year when my stepfather passed away and I had to fly to be with my mother. They gave me a 2 days bereavement leave, 2 weeks emergency leave and 1.5 weeks paid vacation. All of which I was entitled to so while they had no hesitation letting me stack them (if they hadn't, I would have quit LOL), they didn't go above and beyond either. I had asked for an extra month's unpaid leave of absence (offering to still do all essential work unpaid remotely) but that was denied.

I really like my job. It's mostly stagnant and not a whole lot of room for advancement. But the work is interesting (mostly), the pay is reasonable, the environment is fun, my bosses are decent, and the work-life balance is good. I'm expecting to stay here until I FIRE (possibly up to 10 years more).

[tallen]

It can't hurt to ask, even if you don't get it you can use it to try to negotiate a pay increase instead of the vacation time.

[Cromacster]

It probably depends on the company, but things like vacation policies are going to change.  Where I work you follow the policy that you were hired under, unless you were explicitly told differently.

Either way it sounds like you haven't clarified how the policy change affects you.  Before you go in for your performance review I would discuss it with HR to determine where you stand.

[plainjane]

It probably depends on the company, but things like vacation policies are going to change.  Where I work you follow the policy that you were hired under, unless you were explicitly told differently.

Either way it sounds like you haven't clarified how the policy change affects you.  Before you go in for your performance review I would discuss it with HR to determine where you stand.

And go in with the assumption that they'll be giving you that extra week.  "I just realized that the new policy is x, but I've been assuming that I'll receiving an extra week this year as we'd agreed when I was hired.  Am I correct in my assumption, or do we need to discuss further?"

[clarkfan1979]

I was hired in March for a job and signed a contract for salary. I was told of the benefits when interviewing. Salary was low, but the company paid 10.42% of your salary into 401K. When I started in August, I learned that they were reducing the 401K contribution to 8.42% for me and then to 5.14% the following year. I emailed my supervisor and asked for a 3% raise. She never emailed me back, but I felt better voicing my displeasure.

I ultimately left that job. I couldn't put up with that type of stuff long term.

[thd7t]

Was there a contract or employee manual?  If they've changed this, it might impact your entire agreement.  At the very least, they should have reported this as a reduction of your benefits if it impacts you. 

[El Marinero]

And go in with the assumption that they'll be giving you that extra week.  "I just realized that the new policy is x, but I've been assuming that I'll receiving an extra week this year as we'd agreed when I was hired.  Am I correct in my assumption, or do we need to discuss further?"

That sounds like a good opening position to me.

[elaine amj]

Thanks everyone. I was debating whether I should email him before my evaluation (which will likely happen next week) or just bring it up during our meeting.

As for contract - unfortunately, there wasn't one when I was hired (leadership at that time wasn't good at paperwork). And yes, this is the HR policy manual that they heavily revised about 2 years ago right before/when new hires were coming in. Out of the "old guard", only 3 of us are left. The CEO and VP came in 3 years ago and then made sweeping changes (mostly for the better).

[Bajadoc]

As long as you work for someone else and accept their money you have to follow their rules. Do it until you reach financial independence then you can set your own rules.

[AZDude]

I'm wondering how I should handle this situation. When I was hired, I was offered 3 weeks vacation. Our HR policy at that time stated that every 5 years, we would get an extra week of vacation up to a certain limit. After I had been there 3 years, they did a huge update of the HR policy and new hires were started at 2 weeks vacation (with an extra week added after 5 years and so on). Since all other revisions apply to me, my understanding is that this one does too and I'm expected to be grateful that I continued to get 3 weeks vacation.

Now I have been here 5 years. I am having my annual performance evaluation next week and want to bring this up. I really want my extra week of vacation (my vacation days are gold to me lol). Unfortunately, I have a feeling they will say "no". I was really stupid in that I didn't say a single word when they announced the revision of the HR policy 2 years ago. I should have protested, and didn't. I do have a problem with not being assertive enough in demanding my rights. I had no raises (or evaluations lol) for my first 3 years because our finances were a mess and our leadership was in constant transition.

How hard should I push about this? A couple of years back I asked about getting an extra week's vacation in lieu of a raise (would have been cheaper for them!) but was denied "because it would look bad to the other co-workers". My boss does like to keep an appearance of fairness across the board. They do treat us pretty well and are overall fairly generous. However, they don't really like to do things out of the norm. I had to leave for a month unexpectedly at the beginning of this year when my stepfather passed away and I had to fly to be with my mother. They gave me a 2 days bereavement leave, 2 weeks emergency leave and 1.5 weeks paid vacation. All of which I was entitled to so while they had no hesitation letting me stack them (if they hadn't, I would have quit LOL), they didn't go above and beyond either. I had asked for an extra month's unpaid leave of absence (offering to still do all essential work unpaid remotely) but that was denied.

I really like my job. It's mostly stagnant and not a whole lot of room for advancement. But the work is interesting (mostly), the pay is reasonable, the environment is fun, my bosses are decent, and the work-life balance is good. I'm expecting to stay here until I FIRE (possibly up to 10 years more).

A couple things here. First, your company is not generous. Your vacation policy really sucks compared to most I have seen(been with six different employers in last ten years). They also denied reasonable requests from you like unpaid leave and vacation time increase in lieu of extra pay. Second, your boss lies when he says he cannot give you extra vacation time because it would look bad. He *can* do that, he just does not want to. Third, you say you have gotten a raise in only two of the five years you have been there. That is bad. I expect at least a small raise, or bonus, each year.

Finally, FMLA law might guarantee you six weeks after your stepfather passed away(not sure on that), so its possible they even violated the law by "making" you come back to work. Remember, this is a business arrangement. You agree to provide a service for compensation, including paid time off. Everything is negotiable.

[elaine amj]

The lack of raises was due to previous leadership. Thankfully, current leadership did take measures to start giving annual raises.

I'm in Canada, so not under FMLA. I did take a little time look up our laws here and looks like they provided me what is required - up to 10 days unpaid personal emergency leave. I did not qualify for Family Caregiver leave (which gives up to 8 weeks) as my mother did not have a serious medical condition. I do agree that I am a little frustrated that they refuse to deviate from the norm for what I consider to be reasonable requests.

Thank you for the encouragement to push harder for what I want. Everything is negotiable and I do need to negotiate harder (I have a hard time saying "no").

[Megma]

I think planejane had a great approach. I would add that you should look a t the new polices and see there was any info on grandfathering of employees hired under past, more generous arrangements. We had a similar shake up this year and there was a grandfathering policy for the long term employees.

[Josiecat]

You should be under the policy that was in place on the date you were hired.  If they try to pull any crap, I'd make a stink about it. I would also leave. 

[JoJo]

Something similar happened to me.  I had about 8 years experience in my profession so when I was hired, they gave me a schedule that said years 1-5 3 weeks, years 6-10, 4 weeks, etc.  Later, they completely changed the system to PTO so the number of weeks just didn't make sense anymore.  So, I spoke with my boss & HR and I got something in writing that said I would use the new scale, but my point in the scale would be based on actual number of years of work + 5 years.  (so basically got 5 years credit for my 8 years at previous employer)

[elaine amj]

Something similar happened to me.  I had about 8 years experience in my profession so when I was hired, they gave me a schedule that said years 1-5 3 weeks, years 6-10, 4 weeks, etc.  Later, they completely changed the system to PTO so the number of weeks just didn't make sense anymore.  So, I spoke with my boss & HR and I got something in writing that said I would use the new scale, but my point in the scale would be based on actual number of years of work + 5 years.  (so basically got 5 years credit for my 8 years at previous employer)

Thanks for sharing your experiences - I appreciate it a lot. I will suggest this as an option. I'm going to meet with my boss on Monday. He was actually hired at the same time I was and likely is in the same boat. Hopefully this will push him to go to bat for both of us with the big boss.

[bigstack]

people need to stop going the extra mile for employers that don't give raises or reduce benefits.
They are effectively giving you pay cuts....and you are giving them output for free.

start looking at your job as an hourly rate.
assume that you were hired to work 40 hours for x.
every year they don't give a raise you factor in your inflation/cola raise and reduce your hours by that maintain your inflation adjusted hourly rate....make sure to compound.

do your job. but just barely do it.
I work 10 hours a week.
My company tells people "hey no raises this year" via company wide email....cola or otherwise.... they kill the morale...but hey i make a 6 figure income and barely work...boss calls and "oh ya really busy this week all my hours are filled with meetings"...lolololol all 10 of them.

[El Marinero]

You should be under the policy that was in place on the date you were hired.  If they try to pull any crap, I'd make a stink about it. I would also leave.

That was my approach, when something similar happened to me (401K match and bonuses were reduced).  But I had some good skills and lived in a hot job market.

I can completely understand if someone doesn't feel that they can just walk away.  In that case, don't make an ultimatum that you aren't prepared to follow through on.

[use2betrix]

Why not just take your two weeks, then schedule a third. If anyone says anything point out your contract from when you were hired. Make it awkward for them to tell you no. Tell them that the policy was for new hires and you understood they would honor your contract, or tell you otherwise.

P.s. Don't make any major plans that 3rd week in case it doesn't work lol.

I'm amazed how people can go this long without bringing it up. I'd be in my bosses office verifying my status the same day I heard about the change. Two things you don't mess with, vacation and pay.

[Bearded Man]

Tagged.

[elaine amj]

Why not just take your two weeks, then schedule a third. If anyone says anything point out your contract from when you were hired. Make it awkward for them to tell you no. Tell them that the policy was for new hires and you understood they would honor your contract, or tell you otherwise.

P.s. Don't make any major plans that 3rd week in case it doesn't work lol.

I'm amazed how people can go this long without bringing it up. I'd be in my bosses office verifying my status the same day I heard about the change. Two things you don't mess with, vacation and pay.

Hmmm...That's an interesting tactic. I'll have to think about that one, especially since it is near the end of the year. My DH is travelling for his job in early Dec and I'd love to go with him, but don't have the 3 days vacation available I would need.

And yes, it was very stupid of me not to kick up a fuss 2 years ago. I haven't been very good at standing up for myself at my job. More like the pushover who says "yes" to everything *sigh* Most stuff I really don't care about one way or the other. They have shifted me to different departments twice now (all lateral moves). I like many aspects out of all 3 jobs so had no objections to any of the moves. My last move, my previous boss asked me very seriously to tell her which one I preferred. I though about it for a while, and honestly told her I liked both positions about the same. Now that I have been in my current position for a year, I do like it better than my old position (less hassles) so it was overall a good move for me.

My current boss has been calling in sick for the last 2 days so my evaluation keeps getting postponed. (good for this procrastinator who hates any type of confrontation, even this super mild one lol). Not sure if my eval will end up getting postponed to next week - depends on the workload when he gets back.

Now I just have to decide how to handle it.

Ask about it, basically saying something like "I just remembered this is my 5th year and I now qualify for an extra week's vacation and it should apply this year. When I took a closer look at HR policy, I realized that the new policy is x. However, I understand I'll be receiving the extra week as was agreed when I was hired" as per plainjane's suggestion:

And go in with the assumption that they'll be giving you that extra week.  "I just realized that the new policy is x, but I've been assuming that I'll receiving an extra week this year as we'd agreed when I was hired.  Am I correct in my assumption, or do we need to discuss further?"

or put in a vacation request as per Trixr606's suggestion:

Why not just take your two weeks, then schedule a third. If anyone says anything point out your contract from when you were hired. Make it awkward for them to tell you no. Tell them that the policy was for new hires and you understood they would honor your contract, or tell you otherwise.

P.s. Don't make any major plans that 3rd week in case it doesn't work lol.

[Szilveszter Hansen]

Is it not true that the stipulations of your employment were detailed in your original contract? If so, you should be able to press the issue.

Did anyone else commence employment at approx. the same time frame as yourself? If so, they might be considering the same issue. Band together and become stronger!

In haste,
Szilveszter

[elaine amj]

Just to update everyone. I just had my review with my boss. I brought up the topic as a vacation request as suggested. I just handed it in asking for a few extra days off, mentioning that since it had been 5 years, I was due an extra week. He proceeded to explain he had already looked into it (since he is at his 5 years too). Apparently we were only supposed to get 2 weeks when we were hired and we had both negotiated upwards to 3 weeks (it was offered to me without asking). So, it's a no. Glad I asked though.

I also used the opportunity to discuss my raise this year, making sure to clarify my pay scale (since I'm sure that info is lost in the mist of time). He told me he has been having the same discussions as he hit the top of his pay scale a while back. Apparently, they are talking about revising pay scales next year, maybe shifting them upwards? He does doubt that any of us will see much of a raise this year as our organization didn't get the budget increase we had hoped for. 

[RyanAtTanagra]

Sorry, but that sounds like boilerplate corporate bullshit all around.  I'd be looking around for a company willing to give you what you want.

[bigstack]

Just to update everyone. I just had my review with my boss. I brought up the topic as a vacation request as suggested. I just handed it in asking for a few extra days off, mentioning that since it had been 5 years, I was due an extra week. He proceeded to explain he had already looked into it (since he is at his 5 years too). Apparently we were only supposed to get 2 weeks when we were hired and we had both negotiated upwards to 3 weeks (it was offered to me without asking). So, it's a no. Glad I asked though.

I also used the opportunity to discuss my raise this year, making sure to clarify my pay scale (since I'm sure that info is lost in the mist of time). He told me he has been having the same discussions as he hit the top of his pay scale a while back. Apparently, they are talking about revising pay scales next year, maybe shifting them upwards? He does doubt that any of us will see much of a raise this year as our organization didn't get the budget increase we had hoped for.

have you ever gotten a raise there ? even a cost of living raise?
start looking for another job. stop working hard for this company.

the reality is that if you company is turning a profit/growing, they have money to give raises.
the problem may actually be your boss. not saying he is "evil" etc... just that I have seen where the manager is afraid to go ask for more money for his employees out of fear that it will either make him look bad or that he knows that it will take effort to ask and have to justify. I had a boss like this and I sent him a message stating I was preparing to walk out the door and why, I copied his boss on the email... he had promised me raises/promotion for a couple years... suddenly things got done and the response that I got from my bosses boss gave subtle hints that this was the first he heard of it.... basically my manager was afraid to put his neck on the line for any of his employees. it happens ... people like the path of least resistance.

I have a friend whose boss did something similar and he just stopped working completely... did nothing... found another job and started working there... never told his current employer,he worked from home part time and office the other part, but stopped going into the office at all. would barely respond to emails etc. boss started saying "hey you seem to have lost your motivation" and my friend told him "well that happens when you don't get the raise/promotion that you have been promised time and time again, I would be a fool to continue to work hard for a company that has told me that I will not be rewarded." The guy got paid for 6 more months before he had to quit due to conflicting company traveling assignments. he puts in notice and huh all of a sudden the manager is talking once again about "well we were gonna get you this raise at the next review time, why don't you stay?"

your best negotiating tactic is finding another job.(and in reality you should never or rarely accept a counter offer.)

(before you fire off a I am quitting email you have to be ready to actually leave. a few months pay to live off of before you find another job etc, it is always preferable to already have another job offer.)

[Dee]

This makes no logical sense to me: "Apparently we were only supposed to get 2 weeks when we were hired and we had both negotiated upwards to 3 weeks (it was offered to me without asking). So, it's a no."

That should end in "so it's a yes!"

If they meant to give you 2, but actually gave you 3, then you have 3 - that's what was agreed to in your case regardless of what was usually done.

[MidWestLove]

I am not in Canada (US) , and we are for under "at will" employment (no contracts) but I will say I am confused by thinking here - asking or not asking manager, when to ask ,etc. Why does it matter?

There is a policy in force that governs it, it also controls what happened to 'grandfathered' cases ,etc.  You also have payroll system that is set according to the policy , in that system you are assigned certain amount of vacation accumulation per period (or per time period). You may like/dislike/agree/disagree with it but there is a number that system currently tracks you at (because among other things earned paid vacation is a liability of the company to you).

So , do you know what that number is? Not what you think it is, not what you think it should be, etc - all of that is irrelevant. If  you do not know , HR/payroll would be able to tell you pretty quickly.

Emailing/not emailing your manager does not do anything as this is not something she/he has any immediate control over. so is bringing it up in conversations/reviews.  Once you know the policy and that vacation accumulation number you can then react (ask for something, etc).

[RyanAtTanagra]

I am not in Canada (US) , and we are for under "at will" employment (no contracts) but I will say I am confused by thinking here - asking or not asking manager, when to ask ,etc. Why does it matter?

Because vacation policies and pay scales are more like guidelines than actual rules.  Everything is negotiable.  And any manager that says otherwise is full of shit, imo.  You'll find someone at every company that has something outside the 'rules', because they asked for it and were deemed worth it.  In a last resort, things can be given off the record.  A year after starting my current job I told my boss I wanted 4 weeks pto instead of the standard 2.  3 was the max allowable by payroll, so he gave me a floating week that he would just never report.

[bigstack]

I think many of you are confused... there is a greater than 90% chance she is an at-will employee.
effectively the company can fire her for any reason, change her pay up or down and eliminate all of her vacation if they wanted. The only say she has in the matter is that she can leave.

an offer letter stating what they were graciously giving her does not constitute a contract that can't be changed.

they can change it at anytime they want. the only repercussion is people deciding they want to leave the company.... and them gettign a bad reputation for screwing over employees which leads to them having to pay employees more to get them in the first place.

[cpa cat]

I'm not sure I'd buy that line of BS. "We both negotiated upward so we're stuck at 3 weeks." Uhh... no... You did not "negotiate" to stay at 3 forever. If you supposedly negotiated 3, then now you get four.

That said, I was willing quit my old firm based on similar BS. I had glowing reviews and got a 1.5% raise. I told them I was disappointed and pointed out all of the things I'd done since the previous year that went above and beyond. They said "Sorry, there just isn't any money." Except that the budget was widely available and there was clearly money.

So I set the wheels turning to quit. When I left, my supervising partner asked me if there was anything they could do to make me stay and I said "You could pay me more." She just stared at me. Was she expecting the answer to be "More hugs"? I don't know.

I sure wouldn't stick around for no raise AND getting jerked around on vacation.

[mm1970]

I'm not sure I'd buy that line of BS. "We both negotiated upward so we're stuck at 3 weeks." Uhh... no... You did not "negotiate" to stay at 3 forever. If you supposedly negotiated 3, then now you get four.

That said, I was willing quit my old firm based on similar BS. I had glowing reviews and got a 1.5% raise. I told them I was disappointed and pointed out all of the things I'd done since the previous year that went above and beyond. They said "Sorry, there just isn't any money." Except that the budget was widely available and there was clearly money.

So I set the wheels turning to quit. When I left, my supervising partner asked me if there was anything they could do to make me stay and I said "You could pay me more." She just stared at me. Was she expecting the answer to be "More hugs"? I don't know.

I sure wouldn't stick around for no raise AND getting jerked around on vacation.

this made me chuckle "more hugs!"

[Josiecat]

OP - Do you have anything in writing like an offer letter that says three weeks?  If so, then you get three weeks.  Case closed.

[bigstack]

OP - Do you have anything in writing like an offer letter that says three weeks?  If so, then you get three weeks.  Case closed.

not true.

[iamlindoro]

OP - Do you have anything in writing like an offer letter that says three weeks?  If so, then you get three weeks.  Case closed.

not true.

It's neither "not true" nor uniformly true, because vacation is treated differently from state to state.  In some states, vacation time must be paid out as it is considered compensation.  In some states, "use it or lose it" policies are illegal.  Only an employment attorney in the state where the OP lives could really say whether he or she has a case to force the company to deliver on promised vacation, and whether it should be paid out if he or she leaves.

[Kaikou]

 i don't know, I feel like your boss just blew past you with he has asked too routine.

I like the situation upthread to start a new job and just work less and less. lol

[bigstack]

OP - Do you have anything in writing like an offer letter that says three weeks?  If so, then you get three weeks.  Case closed.

not true.

It's neither "not true" nor uniformly true, because vacation is treated differently from state to state.  In some states, vacation time must be paid out as it is considered compensation.  In some states, "use it or lose it" policies are illegal.  Only an employment attorney in the state where the OP lives could really say whether he or she has a case to force the company to deliver on promised vacation, and whether it should be paid out if he or she leaves.

this has nothing to do with paying out vacation... she isn't being terminated or trying to roll over vacation days to the next year.
her employer changed their vacation policy and reduced the amount of vacation that she is awarded. they could cut her pay as well if they wanted.

is this a crappy thing to do ? yes ... but companies do this stuff. it doesn't make them look good in the public eye and if word gets out then of course they have a harder time recruiting.

[iamlindoro]

OP - Do you have anything in writing like an offer letter that says three weeks?  If so, then you get three weeks.  Case closed.

not true.

It's neither "not true" nor uniformly true, because vacation is treated differently from state to state.  In some states, vacation time must be paid out as it is considered compensation.  In some states, "use it or lose it" policies are illegal.  Only an employment attorney in the state where the OP lives could really say whether he or she has a case to force the company to deliver on promised vacation, and whether it should be paid out if he or she leaves.

this has nothing to do with paying out vacation... she isn't being terminated or trying to roll over vacation days to the next year.
her employer changed their vacation policy and reduced the amount of vacation that she is awarded. they could cut her pay as well if they wanted.

The point of mentioning "use it or lose it" policies and laws regarding vacation as compensation were to highlight the fact that each state treats it differently.

If the amount of vacation offered to her was a negotiated, higher, value, if that value is documented, and no notice was given that it would be reduced, then depending on locale, the OP may have a basis for forcing the company to honor their offer.

[bigstack]

OP - Do you have anything in writing like an offer letter that says three weeks?  If so, then you get three weeks.  Case closed.

not true.

It's neither "not true" nor uniformly true, because vacation is treated differently from state to state.  In some states, vacation time must be paid out as it is considered compensation.  In some states, "use it or lose it" policies are illegal.  Only an employment attorney in the state where the OP lives could really say whether he or she has a case to force the company to deliver on promised vacation, and whether it should be paid out if he or she leaves.

this has nothing to do with paying out vacation... she isn't being terminated or trying to roll over vacation days to the next year.
her employer changed their vacation policy and reduced the amount of vacation that she is awarded. they could cut her pay as well if they wanted.

The point of mentioning "use it or lose it" policies and laws regarding vacation as compensation were to highlight the fact that each state treats it differently.

If the amount of vacation offered to her was a negotiated, higher, value, if that value is documented, and no notice was given that it would be reduced, then depending on locale, the OP may have a basis for forcing the company to honor their offer.

you are stretching.... spin spin....

and it is a moot point in 0 states are companies required to give vacation time.

and anyway she plainly said that she was notified/aware of policy change and that she was going to see if she could still get the 3 weeks. it is not like they have to hand write her a notice and physically put it in her hand during working hours. they post it on their company website and send out a mass email saying "hey everyone look at the new company policies , we made changes in an effort to make this company a better place to work and enjoy. we know that like 1% of you will actually read enough to see how we are no longer giving you a reach around while we pound it out. these great new policies go into effect September 22nd 2014. This company is a wonderful place to work because of great employees like you!" (or they could send some mailer out as well.. ."update to your wonderful benefits"... that almost no one reads.)

notice given.

her choice is now does she still want to work there? "at-will"

[elaine amj]

And that's basically what it boils down to - my work has some rules and policies but isn't a massive bureaucracy. Anyway, I was stupid and didn't get anything in writing. What is in writing is that employees start with 2 weeks to which a week is added every 5 years. I was verbally told because I started at 3 weeks, this would be upped to 4 weeks. Nothing is in writing and that CEO is long gone. The new CEO changed things up and is not as generous as the old one.  I don't know if my boss talked to the CEO about my questions - but the responses are pretty much what I would expect from the CEO.

They can fire me tomorrow (they've done that to other staff). Sure they are worried about following procedures, etc and not getting sued - but ultimately, if they want to get rid of someone, there are many ways to do it and they are completely capable of doing it.

I can also leave anytime. Not too interested in that yet but it all depends on what opportunities are available to me. I am paid decently well for my qualifications and now that I have been here 5 years, my job is fairly relaxed with minimal stress. I will say I am more open to keeping an eye out for new opportunities than I was a week ago.

[thd7t]

I think many of you are confused... there is a greater than 90% chance she is an at-will employee.
effectively the company can fire her for any reason, change her pay up or down and eliminate all of her vacation if they wanted. The only say she has in the matter is that she can leave.

an offer letter stating what they were graciously giving her does not constitute a contract that can't be changed.

they can change it at anytime they want. the only repercussion is people deciding they want to leave the company.... and them gettign a bad reputation for screwing over employees which leads to them having to pay employees more to get them in the first place.

Bigstack, even in the case of at-will employment, the company has to inform you prior to reducing any salary or benefits.  This would qualify as a retroactive change and not be allowed.

[bigstack]

I think many of you are confused... there is a greater than 90% chance she is an at-will employee.
effectively the company can fire her for any reason, change her pay up or down and eliminate all of her vacation if they wanted. The only say she has in the matter is that she can leave.

an offer letter stating what they were graciously giving her does not constitute a contract that can't be changed.

they can change it at anytime they want. the only repercussion is people deciding they want to leave the company.... and them gettign a bad reputation for screwing over employees which leads to them having to pay employees more to get them in the first place.

Bigstack, even in the case of at-will employment, the company has to inform you prior to reducing any salary or benefits.  This would qualify as a retroactive change and not be allowed.

ummm they did notify/inform her. that is already discussed.

[thd7t]

I think many of you are confused... there is a greater than 90% chance she is an at-will employee.
effectively the company can fire her for any reason, change her pay up or down and eliminate all of her vacation if they wanted. The only say she has in the matter is that she can leave.

an offer letter stating what they were graciously giving her does not constitute a contract that can't be changed.

they can change it at anytime they want. the only repercussion is people deciding they want to leave the company.... and them gettign a bad reputation for screwing over employees which leads to them having to pay employees more to get them in the first place.

Bigstack, even in the case of at-will employment, the company has to inform you prior to reducing any salary or benefits.  This would qualify as a retroactive change and not be allowed.

ummm they did notify/inform her. that is already discussed.

Right, I had misread your second to last post.  However, OP's first post said that they had changed policy for new hires.  Later, this information changed, but it was never totally clear in her posts.

[use2betrix]

I would start getting feelers for every work. I left a company in June who I was with for 2 years for similar reasoning. No raises, no more vacation, shot down on some other things I asked for. Since I travel for work I had been asking for them to pay for a trip home each month and reduce hours a bit since I was salary (50 hr weeks were regular)

Finally I got fed up. I was a top performer in my department and contributed more than any coworkers to advance my department since I started. I pushed for some key changes that were made.

After I left I found out within about a month they started giving salaried employees three day weekends every other weekend and a monthly trip home allowance lol. Obviously they got the point. Oh well though, I left and got a 50% pay increase, trip home allowance, free insurance, and an immediately vested way higher matching 401k.

[Josiecat]

You can do what you want, but this is really a shitty thing for your employer to do.  I'd be out of there ASAP. 

[tallen]

I'd be rather unmotivated to put in much effort and at the same time keeping my eyes open for other opportunities. Probably start reading "the art of not working at work" thread for pointers ;)