Author Topic: Using falconry to pay for falconry  (Read 7721 times)

Turnbull

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Using falconry to pay for falconry
« on: September 07, 2016, 08:27:59 PM »
As I mentioned on another thread this summer, I'm getting my falconry license and will be trapping and hunting with a red tail hawk soon. There are a lot of start up costs getting into the falconry world - construction of your mews (hawk house), permit fees, scales, and a neverending list of equipment and supplies. I will be an apprentice to a master falconer for two years before I can get my general license.

Luckily for me, my sponsor has an abatement business (removal of problem birds) and needs help sometimes in his jobs. Due to my mustachian tendencies and therefore flexible schedule, I've been helping him and have managed to make about $3000 this year basically learning about the raptors and having fun watching them hunt. This is more than enough to fund my start up costs of getting my license and my own bird. Best side hustle ever.

Mustachian living has enabled me to pursue something I've always been interested in. I have a lot of downtime in the winter which will allow me to hunt with my hawk almost every day.

MicroRN

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2016, 05:54:39 PM »
That's great!  I have a huge fascination for falconry.  I doubt I'll ever actually get into it myself because I have too many other interests and critters, but I love hearing about it.

Fireball

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2016, 06:54:19 PM »
That's really cool. I've been interested ever since I read My Side of the Mountain as a kid. I plan to look into it a bit more once the kids leave the nest.  (see what I did there, eh?)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 09:38:11 AM by Fireball »

shanghaiMMM

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2016, 10:25:20 PM »
I recently read the book 'The Goshawk', which is a very interesting tale about trying to do falconry with (you guessed it), a Goshawk. It was pretty fascinating and very well written, even if it doesn't sound it!

wenchsenior

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2016, 09:04:39 AM »
You guys might be interested in reading H is for Hawk, which hit every top ten list for nonfiction in the known universe in 2015. Also about training a gos.

https://www.amazon.com/H-Hawk-Helen-Macdonald/dp/0802123414

Capsu78

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2016, 12:32:06 PM »
I saw a falconry demonstration in Dubai and it was very cool...even for Dubai!
Lets see, they had photographers for pictures with the falcon so that has some potential revenue.

Guses

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2016, 02:44:37 PM »
Sweet gig! I wish my hobby was able to pay for itself :)

Why is the permitting process so long and convoluted? Aren't you guys able to just walk into a store and buy a gun, why is getting a bird so much more controlled? Just curious.

Northwestie

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2016, 02:49:41 PM »
Hawks are protected under Migratory Bird Act - and there are very specific exceptions for keeping raptors for sporting use.  Prior to the regulations you could just go out and pluck one from a nest and have at it.  Many birds these days are captive bred  - especially the rarer ones, such as falcons.

Also, to ensure you learn the craft and caring of birds, there is a required mentorship program where you need to serve under a registered falconer.  Makes sense.

No one ever said regulations of sporting birds vs recreational weapons makes sense.

wenchsenior

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2016, 05:40:21 PM »
Hawks are protected under Migratory Bird Act - and there are very specific exceptions for keeping raptors for sporting use.  Prior to the regulations you could just go out and pluck one from a nest and have at it.  Many birds these days are captive bred  - especially the rarer ones, such as falcons.

Also, to ensure you learn the craft and caring of birds, there is a required mentorship program where you need to serve under a registered falconer.  Makes sense.

No one ever said regulations of sporting birds vs recreational weapons makes sense.

Yes, and while some species are doing well, population-wise, others are rare (usually due to habitat loss or restricted range) and the 'take' of wild birds is heavily restricted. There are federal restrictions on some species that override state preferences. So, for example, there is no allowable take of the highly desirable aplomado falcon (too endangered), which must be purchased from captive breeders.  In regard to peregrine falcons, the feds set overall take numbers, and then allocate a specific number of permits for each state within the falcons' range, depending on the state status of the species.  Still other species are not restricted federally, but states restrict take depending on the health of the state's population. So white-tailed hawks, black hawks, gray hawks, etc., cannot be taken for falconry in TX, but lots of other species can be as long as you have the proper permits, ranging from very common species (e.g. red tailed hawks, Cooper's hawks), to slightly less common (e.g Harris' hawks, ferruginous hawks), etc.

But the short answer as to why it is so heavily regulated is the historical mass persecution of raptors (which is still going on illegally, though nowhere near at the historical level) and also I suspect it has to do with the fact that it is much harder to keep and train and successfully hunt with an heretofore wild animal than just picking up a gun, aiming, and pulling the trigger.

ETA: not that I understand why anyone would bother flying black hawks or gray hawks or broad winged or red shouldered any of the other fish/frog/lizard/small mammal specialists, but inevitably some crazy falconer will try it just for the novelty LOL.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 05:44:34 PM by wenchsenior »

MoneyCat

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2016, 09:32:45 PM »
Is the falcon 16 years old? I want to know if it's a millennium falcon. *ba dum tish!* I'm here all week. Try the veal.

fishnfool

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2016, 10:40:56 PM »
I wish our local landfill would invest in this. The Seagulls are out of control!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3_ZVtuwIRw

shanghaiMMM

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2016, 01:16:51 AM »
You guys might be interested in reading H is for Hawk, which hit every top ten list for nonfiction in the known universe in 2015. Also about training a gos.

https://www.amazon.com/H-Hawk-Helen-Macdonald/dp/0802123414

Ha, Damn. That's the book I mentioned above, except I used completely the wrong title. Thanks for the fix!

wenchsenior

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2016, 11:54:29 AM »
You guys might be interested in reading H is for Hawk, which hit every top ten list for nonfiction in the known universe in 2015. Also about training a gos.

https://www.amazon.com/H-Hawk-Helen-Macdonald/dp/0802123414

Ha, Damn. That's the book I mentioned above, except I used completely the wrong title. Thanks for the fix!

Oh, how accidentally helpful of me LOL. I thought you were originally referring to a classic by TH White "The Goshawk"...

Turnbull

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2016, 05:04:28 PM »
I wish our local landfill would invest in this. The Seagulls are out of control!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3_ZVtuwIRw

That's kind of like what we do in downtown Nashville. We use Harris hawks to scare the starlings off the roosts. They come in to roost by the tens of thousands this time of year and make a horrible mess down there. We also use Aplomado falcons in Lowe's stores to remove birds that get inside and nest in the store. My sponsor uses the Aplomado and kestrels to remove birds from the airport in Nashville.

It's a crazy job. You should see some of the looks we get as bachelorette parties stumble out of the honky tonks and we're standing there on the sidewalk in our falconry gear looking up in a tree. As you can imagine we attract quite a crowd.

Turnbull

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2016, 05:12:20 PM »
Wenchsenior and her husband have forgotten more about raptors than I'll ever know. She can answer plenty of questions about falconry.

When I (hopefully) catch my redtail in October I'll try to get some pics on here.

wenchsenior

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2016, 05:45:35 PM »
Wenchsenior and her husband have forgotten more about raptors than I'll ever know. She can answer plenty of questions about falconry.

When I (hopefully) catch my redtail in October I'll try to get some pics on here.

Your anticipation is very familiar.

We were running errands today, drove by an empty field (still greened up, unusual for this late in the year), and DH says mock-dramatically, "oh for a Harris' hawk with which to go hunt the bunnies in that field"...so he's obviously feeling the itch, as well, even though he SAYS he won't have time to fly a bird this year.  The problem is he's been out trapping-and-releasing Swainson's hawks (though not highly successfully, since most of them are cropped up on abundant wild prey right now) with his grad students the past few weekends, to give them some handling and techniques practice.  I'm waiting for the day he comes home with a red tail or Harris' that they just happened to trap...


Turnbull

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2016, 04:10:13 PM »


Your anticipation is very familiar.

We were running errands today, drove by an empty field (still greened up, unusual for this late in the year), and DH says mock-dramatically, "oh for a Harris' hawk with which to go hunt the bunnies in that field"...so he's obviously feeling the itch, as well, even though he SAYS he won't have time to fly a bird this year.  The problem is he's been out trapping-and-releasing Swainson's hawks (though not highly successfully, since most of them are cropped up on abundant wild prey right now) with his grad students the past few weekends, to give them some handling and techniques practice.  I'm waiting for the day he comes home with a red tail or Harris' that they just happened to trap...

Oh yeah, he's coming home with a big female red tail soon. Lock up your squirrels and rabbits!

Slow&Steady

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2016, 07:37:59 AM »
I recently brought a falconer to our facility as an alternative for our starling issues.  It was pretty cool but the company decide that buying and registering a laser like the one that he used (in addition to the birds) was more economical than paying him to come back.  We will see what happens come winter when the starlings come back.

Turnbull

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2016, 07:46:56 AM »
I recently brought a falconer to our facility as an alternative for our starling issues.  It was pretty cool but the company decide that buying and registering a laser like the one that he used (in addition to the birds) was more economical than paying him to come back.  We will see what happens come winter when the starlings come back.

I'll be interested in hearing what happens. We also have lasers and have seen the starlings come back to the tree after their use. The most effective thing has been when a hawk actually catches a starling in a tree. Other starlings hear it screaming and have NOT been coming back to that specific tree. Please let me know how it goes.

Slow&Steady

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2016, 12:10:28 PM »
I recently brought a falconer to our facility as an alternative for our starling issues.  It was pretty cool but the company decide that buying and registering a laser like the one that he used (in addition to the birds) was more economical than paying him to come back.  We will see what happens come winter when the starlings come back.

I'll be interested in hearing what happens. We also have lasers and have seen the starlings come back to the tree after their use. The most effective thing has been when a hawk actually catches a starling in a tree. Other starlings hear it screaming and have NOT been coming back to that specific tree. Please let me know how it goes.

We only have a problem in the winter an mostly at night (evenings & early morning included), we produce a lot of heat, they come here to roost at night. The falconer was not able to fly the predator birds at night, I am not sure if this is standard or was just one of his rules/practices as I do not pretend to know that much about the birds.  So the predator birds were only used until sundown and at sunrise, the lasers were used continuously overnight to keep the starlings from roosting.  After about a week the starlings had pretty much all found a new place to roost.  Now that it is warm we produce too much heat for them to want to roost here so the test will come when it starts to get colder again.

wenchsenior

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2016, 04:24:43 PM »
I recently brought a falconer to our facility as an alternative for our starling issues.  It was pretty cool but the company decide that buying and registering a laser like the one that he used (in addition to the birds) was more economical than paying him to come back.  We will see what happens come winter when the starlings come back.

I'll be interested in hearing what happens. We also have lasers and have seen the starlings come back to the tree after their use. The most effective thing has been when a hawk actually catches a starling in a tree. Other starlings hear it screaming and have NOT been coming back to that specific tree. Please let me know how it goes.

We only have a problem in the winter an mostly at night (evenings & early morning included), we produce a lot of heat, they come here to roost at night. The falconer was not able to fly the predator birds at night, I am not sure if this is standard or was just one of his rules/practices as I do not pretend to know that much about the birds.  So the predator birds were only used until sundown and at sunrise, the lasers were used continuously overnight to keep the starlings from roosting.  After about a week the starlings had pretty much all found a new place to roost.  Now that it is warm we produce too much heat for them to want to roost here so the test will come when it starts to get colder again.

Yes, falconers typically fly diurnal birds of prey, which don't function that well in the dark...they are biologically wired to go into 'time to roost in a safe place, shut-down, and sleep' mode as the sun goes down. Technically, you can  (attempt) to train owls for falconry, but it usually difficult and not as fun, so most don't. 

The Fake Cheap

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2016, 05:41:45 PM »
As I mentioned on another thread this summer, I'm getting my falconry license and will be trapping and hunting with a red tail hawk soon. There are a lot of start up costs getting into the falconry world - construction of your mews (hawk house), permit fees, scales, and a neverending list of equipment and supplies. I will be an apprentice to a master falconer for two years before I can get my general license.

Luckily for me, my sponsor has an abatement business (removal of problem birds) and needs help sometimes in his jobs. Due to my mustachian tendencies and therefore flexible schedule, I've been helping him and have managed to make about $3000 this year basically learning about the raptors and having fun watching them hunt. This is more than enough to fund my start up costs of getting my license and my own bird. Best side hustle ever.

Mustachian living has enabled me to pursue something I've always been interested in. I have a lot of downtime in the winter which will allow me to hunt with my hawk almost every day.

Very cool.  This sounds like something I would enjoy.  I've enjoyed birding for a while and especially enjoy hawk watching.   I assume you must be in a rural area to do this?

Turnbull

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2016, 06:28:31 PM »
I recently brought a falconer to our facility as an alternative for our starling issues.  It was pretty cool but the company decide that buying and registering a laser like the one that he used (in addition to the birds) was more economical than paying him to come back.  We will see what happens come winter when the starlings come back.

I'll be interested in hearing what happens. We also have lasers and have seen the starlings come back to the tree after their use. The most effective thing has been when a hawk actually catches a starling in a tree. Other starlings hear it screaming and have NOT been coming back to that specific tree. Please let me know how it goes.

We only have a problem in the winter an mostly at night (evenings & early morning included), we produce a lot of heat, they come here to roost at night. The falconer was not able to fly the predator birds at night, I am not sure if this is standard or was just one of his rules/practices as I do not pretend to know that much about the birds.  So the predator birds were only used until sundown and at sunrise, the lasers were used continuously overnight to keep the starlings from roosting.  After about a week the starlings had pretty much all found a new place to roost.  Now that it is warm we produce too much heat for them to want to roost here so the test will come when it starts to get colder again.

Yes, falconers typically fly diurnal birds of prey, which don't function that well in the dark...they are biologically wired to go into 'time to roost in a safe place, shut-down, and sleep' mode as the sun goes down. Technically, you can  (attempt) to train owls for falconry, but it usually difficult and not as fun, so most don't.

The Harris hawks we fly in downtown Nashville do well after dark but maybe it's because there are enough street lights to help them out.

Turnbull

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Re: Using falconry to pay for falconry
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2016, 06:30:42 PM »
As I mentioned on another thread this summer, I'm getting my falconry license and will be trapping and hunting with a red tail hawk soon. There are a lot of start up costs getting into the falconry world - construction of your mews (hawk house), permit fees, scales, and a neverending list of equipment and supplies. I will be an apprentice to a master falconer for two years before I can get my general license.

Luckily for me, my sponsor has an abatement business (removal of problem birds) and needs help sometimes in his jobs. Due to my mustachian tendencies and therefore flexible schedule, I've been helping him and have managed to make about $3000 this year basically learning about the raptors and having fun watching them hunt. This is more than enough to fund my start up costs of getting my license and my own bird. Best side hustle ever.

Mustachian living has enabled me to pursue something I've always been interested in. I have a lot of downtime in the winter which will allow me to hunt with my hawk almost every day.

Very cool.  This sounds like something I would enjoy.  I've enjoyed birding for a while and especially enjoy hawk watching.   I assume you must be in a rural area to do this?

Not necessarily. I live in a very rural area but there are plenty of falconers who don't. The advantage of me being out here is that I can walk out the door to fly my hawk while someone in a higher population density area would have to drive to the woods or fields.