Mustachianism is a Sticky Wicket

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Since this is off Topic, I'll just speak my mind a bit, but I am not necessarily intending an intentional direction.  I'm just putting out my thoughts that fall under this subject at this time.  I have had many thoughts (like when MMM claimed he wasn't ruining my marriage).  Right now, I struggle to enjoy spending money, although I have the means and cash flow.  I finally have a very happy spouse since things have emerged from the Iron Curtain of our early dual income, 70% savings days. We have managed to budget 500/wk for her to spend however she sees fit (or to save, which I eventually hope she does again, at some point).  But she struggles with spending freely and I struggle with if I want to work.  Sometimes I just wish we lived our own private life without having to wonder about these 'internet influenced' things.

[StetsTerhune]

Sometimes I just wish we lived our own private life without having to wonder about these 'internet influenced' things.

I do really appreciate the irony of that sentence in this context. Listening to the complaints though, I don't think you can really blame the internet for any of this. You and your wife seem to have very different life goals, and I don't think you can blame the internet for giving you some of the ideas for those life goals. I don't think that blaming anything for that, instead of working on it, is productive.

On another note. Is "budget 500/wk for her to spend however she sees fit" really not a typo (or maybe it's not USD? 500 MAD? 500 THB?)? Not judging, we all have to make our own choices.... I just don't see how it's possible.

[matchewed]

Take some responsibility and agency for your life. Yes you will have circumstances out of your control. Your finances and your feelings do not fall into that category.

[PizzaSteve]

Thanks for drawing my attention to that wonderful blog post.  Great lesson is there for those willing to listen to all sides and work on compromises to find a happy medium for living.   

On topic, but a side note: I highly recommend Modern Romance by Aziz Anasari and Eric Klinenberg (Aziz is a brilliant comedian, famous for Parks and Rec, but the book is a serious look at modern romantic notions). If anyone else has read it, lets discuss in the context of mustacian relationships.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Sometimes I just wish we lived our own private life without having to wonder about these 'internet influenced' things.

I do really appreciate the irony of that sentence in this context. Listening to the complaints though, I don't think you can really blame the internet for any of this. You and your wife seem to have very different life goals, and I don't think you can blame the internet for giving you some of the ideas for those life goals. I don't think that blaming anything for that, instead of working on it, is productive.

On another note. Is "budget 500/wk for her to spend however she sees fit" really not a typo (or maybe it's not USD? 500 MAD? 500 THB?)? Not judging, we all have to make our own choices.... I just don't see how it's possible.

I'm spending a lot less time online and it really does help.  The only lingering issue is that I feel more 'informed' right after I do a quick check in on things.  I don't know if I'll ever get over that, even though part of me knows 'informed' might not be actionable or even significant to anything.  Other than checking the weather forecast, making sure my identity hasn't been stolen, and I'm not missing some exciting activity, much of my online time is a distraction or possibly nudging my feelings on things I can't influence.

We arrived at 500 USD / wk for her as a good level for us to both be happy.  I think everyone has different dynamics in this regard, but it is well within our FI.  It typically goes up each year which helps also.  On a side note, I got lots of negativity about my wife having an 'allowance' in the past so I don't like to talk about this, except it seems relevant to this discussion. 

Thanks for the book recommendation PS, definitely will check it out.  It has good reviews on Audible.

ETA - The thing I like so far about the book is how surprised Aziz is about how differently the nursing home folks respond when asked about 'finding love' vs. ours and younger generations.  I have a 14 y.o. and 12 y.o. and, although there are some uncomfortable sentences here and there, we are enjoying discussing the ideas as they are presented.

[Laura33]

I guess I see this a little differently.  You seem to view the internet as a source of bad/distracting ideas/influences.  I see those ideas as echoing thoughts that are already inside you.  Think about it: you read thousands of words every day, and most of them just pass directly through, leaving no real impact.  But then you see some idea, and it resonates - it’s like all of these thoughts and feelings that had been swirling around in your head suddenly crystallized.  But the reality is that those words resonate only because you have already had thoughts like that swirling around in your head; the thing you read just let you put words to them.

IOW, the issue here is that you and your DW have fundamentally different views of what your life should be; MMM just gave you a way to explain the what and why and how.  So talk to your wife.  I suggest reading Part 2 of the post linked below for starters, followed by the “how to convert your SO” sticky, if you haven’t already.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

I guess I see this a little differently.  You seem to view the internet as a source of bad/distracting ideas/influences.  I see those ideas as echoing thoughts that are already inside you.  Think about it: you read thousands of words every day, and most of them just pass directly through, leaving no real impact.  But then you see some idea, and it resonates - it’s like all of these thoughts and feelings that had been swirling around in your head suddenly crystallized.  But the reality is that those words resonate only because you have already had thoughts like that swirling around in your head; the thing you read just let you put words to them.

IOW, the issue here is that you and your DW have fundamentally different views of what your life should be; MMM just gave you a way to explain the what and why and how.  So talk to your wife.  I suggest reading Part 2 of the post linked below for starters, followed by the “how to convert your SO” sticky, if you haven’t already.

You probably don't understand me and that is most likely my fault.  When I pick up a newspaper, I can take or leave all of the articles.  The difference with the internet is that I don't just randomly go to an article.  They are typically an accretion of similar things I have been 'interested in' and the message seems to get more and more crystallized, to a painful point.  If you are left or right of that point, you get told just how horrible your life is.

Just to make it clear, I love my wife and would give up my FI to be with her.  I don't think it will come to that (I could probably get to 1k/week or so before I got concerned for both her and I), but I am hoping to have a good discussion about how MMM and internet input ruins things that are perfectly fine.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Since this is off Topic, I'll just speak my mind a bit, but I am not necessarily intending an intentional direction.  I'm just putting out my thoughts that fall under this subject at this time.  I have had many thoughts (like when MMM claimed he wasn't ruining my marriage).  Right now, I struggle to enjoy spending money, although I have the means and cash flow.  I finally have a very happy spouse since things have emerged from the Iron Curtain of our early dual income, 70% savings days. We have managed to budget 500/wk for her to spend however she sees fit (or to save, which I eventually hope she does again, at some point).  But she struggles with spending freely and I struggle with if I want to work.  Sometimes I just wish we lived our own private life without having to wonder about these 'internet influenced' things.

I think I've finally figured out much of what was bothering me so much for so long.  MMM is a computer science superstar that retired at 30 with more marketable skills than most any other 30-yo free agents, in order to pursue more of his physical and time intensive home renovation stuff in manly, outdoor-friendly Colorado.  Not only that, he manages to renovate homes in an earth-friendly manner, be supportive of his wife's Etsy business (although it's pretty much a hobby and maybe Earth un-friendly, shipping small packages of specialty soap to individuals), and stay in peak physical condition while 'drinking beer, smoking weed, and typing shit into a computer every once in a while'. 

Maybe it's a persona, but it's a pretty crazy aspiration for him to think that there will be a whole generation that can follow his example and have similar results.  I guess it's like weight watchers - he provides a plan that worked for himself, then air-brushed the results a bit so that it looks his nirvana as well as a reasonable amount of people are enjoying the good life (making $400k in retirement/side hustle, travelling, running 'experiments' in his free time with powered bikes, real estate, and electric cars).  Basically, you never hear a single real negative from MMM when in reality, we know that people like Warren Buffett have blind spots like corporate jets, although enjoy a simple home and vehicles.  There are always trade-offs, but either MMM is secretly giving away more hundreds of thousands of dollars, or else he is sitting on more and more millions for no apparent reason.

Maybe I'm a little guilty of that second thing, but then again, I'm not selling my lifestyle as virtuous.  I do plan to eventually contribute millions to charitable causes through my trust (DAF), but I'm not a public figure and have no intentions of profiting off of or publicizing my giving.

Once you have achieved FI, other than donating free information to help others (and I may just re-start that up again in a painful but unapologetic format), why run ads and sponsor financial products?  If you really like them (like Vanguard), save the next guy that uses the supplier by not being paid by the supplier to advertise for them. 

Sorry, lots of rants tonight.  Some hopefully coherent.  Honestly, most of my issue is probably just the internet and how it all seems to be advertising and 'fast food' information.

[matchewed]

A) You sound bitter.

B) Whether he makes money or not what does that affect you?

C) Whether he advertises his giving or not isn't the point. He's not planning on contributing, he is contributing (I'd bring up a saying I like about shitting in one hand and planning in the other and which hand gets full first but whatever). He can profit and redistribute that wealth. He's realized an amazing skill of his is making money. He puts that skill to good use. Why shit on that? And why is that "bad"?

None of those things really seem all that connected directly to advertising and "fast food'' information. You apparently don't dig the blog and seem to have a personal take on the MMM crafted personality so why not just avoid the blog. No one makes you read this stuff that enrages you. Furthermore is the point that you choose to be enraged by it. That agency I mentioned rears it's head again. You have a choice in these things.

He admits his "negative" (as you perceive it) all the time. You just seem to ignore it. He calls his lifestyle extravagant and luxurious. He readily admits that his life is crazy amazing.

Why does this matter so much to you anyway?

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Thanks for the feedback Matchewed.  That's why I air out on a forum, to hear other people's informed opinions.  I don't always agree, but I like to hear others perspectives on things that I find bothersome (like posting hunting pictures on the internet.  I just wanted to understand why someone would go to a place like this forum and show gutted deer, but I got banned for saying that I really didn't want to see that.  I actually got a good reply once I was allowed back on the site and got to read it a month later, if I had that hobby and was passionate about it, maybe I would want to share it here also). 

So maybe I am bitter about that experience of being banned in the middle of a good conversation, but I don't think I'm bitter about the things I was posting about.  I think I'm more confused by why MMM did it, promoting crap like Betterment and LendingClub.

It's all still on his blog, along with credit cards, SoFi, PersonalCapital, random ads, etc.

[jimmymango]

I think I'm more confused by why MMM did it, promoting crap like Betterment and LendingClub. It's all still on his blog, along with credit cards, SoFi, PersonalCapital, random ads, etc.

Even if Pete were a paid actor and the real MMM is a shadow figure getting buckets of duckets from the blog and living an anti-mustachian lifestyle, does it really matter? Yes, Pete profits from the blog, but it's not a Volkswagen emissions scandal where the FIRE crowd is being sold a false bill of goods that causes real-world harm. The message is what matters here: financial independence empowers people with self-determination to live a life that is meaningful to them. According to what you say, this blog and FIRE movement have done the same for you as well.

So if you're at the FIRE stage, why waste your time being angry about MMM? You're now in a position to live the life you want, whatever that means. So go do what you want and don't worry about what anyone else says. Frankly, no one cares. Just go do what makes you happy. And if FIRE hasn't been the panacea you hoped it would have been (i.e., you're still having marital problems/money conflicts, or can't seem to figure out a purpose or find happiness) perhaps there's an underlying issue that could be sorted out through counseling of some sort?

[matchewed]

Thanks for the feedback Matchewed.  That's why I air out on a forum, to hear other people's informed opinions.  I don't always agree, but I like to hear others perspectives on things that I find bothersome (like posting hunting pictures on the internet.  I just wanted to understand why someone would go to a place like this forum and show gutted deer, but I got banned for saying that I really didn't want to see that.  I actually got a good reply once I was allowed back on the site and got to read it a month later, if I had that hobby and was passionate about it, maybe I would want to share it here also). 

So maybe I am bitter about that experience of being banned in the middle of a good conversation, but I don't think I'm bitter about the things I was posting about.  I think I'm more confused by why MMM did it, promoting crap like Betterment and LendingClub.

It's all still on his blog, along with credit cards, SoFi, PersonalCapital, random ads, etc.

Sure those things are on his blog but that isn't about Mustachianism now is it?

Also you're bringing up a whole lot of unrelated stuff and throwing them as one big pile hoping they stick and they don't. None of those things are in fact related to each other on the outside. You being banned, Pete's promotion of Betterment, Mustachianism in general, a dead dear...etc.

You seem to take offense at many things. Perhaps actually narrowing your focus or not letting things that don't actually affect you affect you would be a course of action which would bring you more contentment?

[Financial.Velociraptor]

It is surprising to me that someone in your financial position can be bothered to care about other people's issues.  All the people I know who are FI whether early retired or not (and this includes me!), has a give-a-shit-o-meter that is sitting right on the big red "E".  The beauty is this mindset yields an enormous amount of personal satisfaction.

Anyway, I think I am probably sensing more dissatisfaction from you that is present.  It is hard to tell over the internet without body language clues.  You obviously aren't bothered enough by the little annoyances at work to quit.  And you obviously aren't bothered enough by the cult of mustachianism to stop coming here.  Perhaps these are just idle musings?

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Yeah FV, you pretty much nailed it that these are idle musings.  I'm certainly not 'bothered', just really curious.  After blogging for a while and checking out the income side, the income side gets to be a real pain in the butt, yet Pete seems to put a lot of effort in to keeping links updated and the income flowing.  To me, on the outside, it is a jarring contrast to the MMM persona that is footloose and fancy free.  Maybe he has some hired hands doing this for him?  It's impressive, the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes, without most people here realizing or appreciating it.

But yeah, I'm not trying to be a detractor to the site or Pete, just airing my thoughts.  This is probably just a case of too much time on my hands.  That's one of the reasons I keep working, because it at least keeps me distracted for long stretches and channels my energy into productive endeavors, unlike this thread I guess....

[marty998]

Don't have anything relevant to add to the thread other than chiming in to say I'm impressed that you're from Houston and you've heard of the phrase "sticky wicket".

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Good comments Spartana, in my case, especially post-FI, the ER and 25k/yr spending parts of Mustachianism gets hard to justify for a married couple with kids.  I was hovering around 40k spending for a long time and I guess a big part of my personal conflict comes from still having a good income but not really caring.  I projected that on to Pete as to why, especially if he manages to be even half as efficient as he claims (can live on, say 50k) and can easily cover this with his latest net worth (which he doesn't disclose, but has to be over 2M just on appreciation of his 600k, real estate appreciation, small business ventures, and the 400k/yr blog income), then why keep up the blog. 

I hope you're right that he enjoys it and would do it for free in his 'spare time'.  Personally, I think he enjoys the experiments, but those also tend to be the least 'Mustachian' parts of the blog - spending large chunks of money on extra things that may or may not ultimately lower his spending sufficiently in the future.

And yes Marty998, sticky wicket is just a great phrase!  I had to google it to make sure I remembered and used it correctly :)  It should be used way more often in Houston

[koshtra]

Heh. YMMV, eh?

But Pete loves to work. Everyone who's met him remarks on it: he just loves to be up and doing. More power to him: I think that's wonderful. But it's not me. Very few of the things I really like to do are even faintly remunerative :-)

I don't think the point here though is for everyone to be just like him. I think the point is to be aware of the trade-offs, aware of the resources you're plowing through -- to really pay attention to whether your consumption gets you the happiness it promises.

You say you're willing to work forever to support your wife's spending habits, but I'm not sure that you are. And now that MMM has brought you to the point of formulating the situation that way, it's uncomfortable, so you'd like to discredit him somehow. That's perfectly understandable, and I have that impulse too, but I don't think it's a fruitful response. Really the discomfort has been there all along, and it's just been brought into focus. And that's a good thing, because as long as it was vague you couldn't address it.

Marriage is a noble estate and I honor you for valuing it above free time. But every good marriage entails clarifying and renegotiating its terms, sometimes. We go into it pretty rashly and find out, sometimes years later, that our partner has assumed commitments that we don't quite remember making. That always happens, and it's not anyone's fault. You didn't promise to work forever so she could spend a lot of money, and she didn't promise to take up some goddamned frugality cult you found on the net. So you've got some work to do -- you've already done some of it -- to arrive at a place where you're both genuinely comfortable.

Really, Pete's good fortune and authenticity are neither here nor there. Who cares? It's the happiness of you and your wife that's important. To stick with the cricket metaphor -- keep your eye on the ball :-)

[BeanCounter]

Heh. YMMV, eh?

But Pete loves to work. Everyone who's met him remarks on it: he just loves to be up and doing. More power to him: I think that's wonderful. But it's not me. Very few of the things I really like to do are even faintly remunerative :-)

I don't think the point here though is for everyone to be just like him. I think the point is to be aware of the trade-offs, aware of the resources you're plowing through -- to really pay attention to whether your consumption gets you the happiness it promises.

You say you're willing to work forever to support your wife's spending habits, but I'm not sure that you are. And now that MMM has brought you to the point of formulating the situation that way, it's uncomfortable, so you'd like to discredit him somehow. That's perfectly understandable, and I have that impulse too, but I don't think it's a fruitful response. Really the discomfort has been there all along, and it's just been brought into focus. And that's a good thing, because as long as it was vague you couldn't address it.

Marriage is a noble estate and I honor you for valuing it above free time. But every good marriage entails clarifying and renegotiating its terms, sometimes. We go into it pretty rashly and find out, sometimes years later, that our partner has assumed commitments that we don't quite remember making. That always happens, and it's not anyone's fault. You didn't promise to work forever so she could spend a lot of money, and she didn't promise to take up some goddamned frugality cult you found on the net. So you've got some work to do -- you've already done some of it -- to arrive at a place where you're both genuinely comfortable.

Really, Pete's good fortune and authenticity are neither here nor there. Who cares? It's the happiness of you and your wife that's important. To stick with the cricket metaphor -- keep your eye on the ball :-)

Best post I've read in a long time.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Heh. YMMV, eh?

But Pete loves to work. Everyone who's met him remarks on it: he just loves to be up and doing. More power to him: I think that's wonderful. But it's not me. Very few of the things I really like to do are even faintly remunerative :-)

I don't think the point here though is for everyone to be just like him. I think the point is to be aware of the trade-offs, aware of the resources you're plowing through -- to really pay attention to whether your consumption gets you the happiness it promises.

You say you're willing to work forever to support your wife's spending habits, but I'm not sure that you are. And now that MMM has brought you to the point of formulating the situation that way, it's uncomfortable, so you'd like to discredit him somehow. That's perfectly understandable, and I have that impulse too, but I don't think it's a fruitful response. Really the discomfort has been there all along, and it's just been brought into focus. And that's a good thing, because as long as it was vague you couldn't address it.

Marriage is a noble estate and I honor you for valuing it above free time. But every good marriage entails clarifying and renegotiating its terms, sometimes. We go into it pretty rashly and find out, sometimes years later, that our partner has assumed commitments that we don't quite remember making. That always happens, and it's not anyone's fault. You didn't promise to work forever so she could spend a lot of money, and she didn't promise to take up some goddamned frugality cult you found on the net. So you've got some work to do -- you've already done some of it -- to arrive at a place where you're both genuinely comfortable.

Really, Pete's good fortune and authenticity are neither here nor there. Who cares? It's the happiness of you and your wife that's important. To stick with the cricket metaphor -- keep your eye on the ball :-)

Lots in there that got me thinking, some things that are spot on and others that might be misunderstandings.  First, I have never met Pete, so I really don't know much about his IRL personality.  I figured that he really just loved being outdoors, building things, biking, helping out with raising his son (which are all things that I enjoy).  So I figured being in front of a computer was the last thing he really wanted to do once he 'ER'ed' from his job (I find that I am happier when I don't spend too long in front of a screen (YouTubing, MobileGaming, Wiki-reading), and certainly chafe at 'having' to put in free time in front of a screen doing something I don't enjoy). 

Might have been a misunderstanding on my part, but thinking about Pete as a hard worker maybe helps frame that he just can't help himself.  He gets a chance to do different, bigger than life things as a trade-off for giving up some of his personal time.  I still don't think I could do it post luxurious FI.  The thought of being responsible for a business after tasting Full-FI freedom would not work for me because I wouldn't be able to let it go.  Even with my little bit of blogging, I found myself composing posts as I went about my day.... 

One thing I like about my work is that once I head home or on vacation (and delegate my messages to others), I can forget about it completely.  When I'm at work, I do the work, but once I head out, my phone is off (well, technically, usually playing EconTalk or an Audiobook on my drive home, then turned off).  I'm guilty of checking it sometimes, but it's a guilty pleasure / bad habit that I need to break.

I did find myself 'enabling' my wife's consumption more than I would like, especially when I first found MMM, and it bothered me.  But over the years, as we weaned off the 'invisible credit card spending' and use separate bank accounts (a hold over from when she was a teacher) I think we have come to a healthy balance.  It's probably outside the Mustachian guardrails (~24k/yr for groceries, kids, and then anything else she wants), but we are both pretty satisfied.  I could get fired today and we'd have a sustainable lifestyle (~40k/yr excluding mortgage), both maritally and financially (not sure of my net worth since we don't plan to sell the house and I don't track things very closely anymore, but we have over 2M in liquid, income producing assets, excluding the 100k or so in cash to pay off the mortgage or invest in a rental if need or opportunity were to come along).

But even the prospect of buying a rental property, for me, sounds like too much work for income.  I'm pretty satisfied with collecting dividends and interest, and re-balancing to capture capital gains.  I guess I'm just lazier than Pete at the end of the day, but I still love running long distances, trying new hobbies like SCUBA, travel, camping...  so lazy is not exactly the right word either.  But I can't say that I value freedom more, because he's 'retired' and I'm working.  I think that's where I get confused, I don't think that I'm lazy but if Pete is what early retirement looks like, then I don't know if I want that either.  Obviously more for me to think about! 

[Just Joe]

What we know about Pete surely contains a little of social media "greatest hits" i.e. teach about your successes and ignore the rest.

I always figured he likely worked smarter than some folks and have IT helpers that manage the website.

[BeanCounter]

Lots in there that got me thinking, some things that are spot on and others that might be misunderstandings.  First, I have never met Pete, so I really don't know much about his IRL personality.  I figured that he really just loved being outdoors, building things, biking, [/b]helping out with raising his son(which are all things that I enjoy). 

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but when it's your child, you don't "help" raise your child. It's equally your job.
This might be why your wife feels the need to spend so much fucking money.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Lots in there that got me thinking, some things that are spot on and others that might be misunderstandings.  First, I have never met Pete, so I really don't know much about his IRL personality.  I figured that he really just loved being outdoors, building things, biking, [/b]helping out with raising his son[/b](which are all things that I enjoy). 

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but when it's your child, you don't "help" raise your child. It's equally your job.
This might be why your wife feels the need to spend so much fucking money.

I guess I phrased it poorly.  If anything, my wife gets on me for spending more time with our son than she does.  But she struggles feeling like she is with our daughter too much, so I try to do more Daddy / daughter days and give her an opportunity to be one-on-one with our boy, but he's 14 and a difficult nut to crack.  I'm not perfect by any means, but I do think I'm better than average (which is always the case, right?).  Our kids are both in school when I'm at work for the most part, so I don't think me working is too much of a problem. 

I do agree that my wife spends more money than I would like.  I have just learned to ignore it.  She isn't doing anything anti-environment or crazy consumerist that I can tell, but I have no idea where it goes (she typically takes a little more when it's back to school, holidays, and extra activity stuff, but it's less bad then when it was all going on the CC).  She always says, "I'm nowhere near as bad as our neighbors, you should see all the crap they buy, how often they eat out, get their nails done, etc.".  I just remind her that we are not our neighbors, we have a great life, and we are FI while they are still paying on their fancy cars and having their kids take out college loans.  She says how much she appreciates being a SAHP with such a great situation and life goes on... 

I guess my bigger thought is that, if I ER just to be at home more, then we're an unconventional family for no necessary reason.  Is it better to be a Dad who loves his job, leverages the FI to make sure I don't miss anything too important (but, realistically, sometimes I do have an important meeting and I think it's OK because my kids see that way more often with their friends that have two working parents), and shows them my workplace and share my business travel adventures with them (both as an expat family in the past and more recently with just Facetimes and a few trinkets when I'm abroad).

But maybe it would be more impressive to go against the mainstream and show them that there is a great life to be had by working smart and hard early, and being able to live life in any way you choose.  But then I'd probably want to do more family travel and that doesn't work too well with the kids schedule, so then we'd have to figure out homeschooling and make sure health insurance works while we're interstate or abroad, as well as housing and visas...  I dunno, just sounds like a lot of work for what might be little or inconclusive benefit.  Having the company take us overseas as expats was definitely the way to go, but the kids are older so we'd only want to go for weeks or a month at a time now.

[BeanCounter]

[quote author=EscapeVelocity2020 link=topic=87941.msg1919443#msg1919443 date=1520048276
I guess my bigger thought is that, if I ER just to be at home more, then we're an unconventional family for no necessary reason.  Is it better to be a Dad who loves his job, leverages the FI to make sure I don't miss anything too important (but, realistically, sometimes I do have an important meeting and I think it's OK because my kids see that way more often with their friends that have two working parents), and shows them my workplace and share my business travel adventures with them (both as an expat family in the past and more recently with just Facetimes and a few trinkets when I'm abroad).

[/quote]

I think you nailed it right there Escape. It sounds like you are frustrated because you bought into the frugality of MMM. You've become FI, but to RE you would have to say no to some things. Reel your wifes spending back in. Or tell the kids no to a few things or activities. And maybe your gender rolls are at work, making you feel that you should be in the office? Is that what you mean by living unconventionally?
 But at the same time the thought of having more free time is really appealing to you?

[Financial.Velociraptor]

Sticky Wicket

[MasterStache]

What we know about Pete surely contains a little of social media "greatest hits" i.e. teach about your successes and ignore the rest.

I always figured he likely worked smarter than some folks and have IT helpers that manage the website.

+1. I think Pete struggled mightily early on with a business that ultimately lost him money, downturn of the stock market and buying unnecessary things (like a 350K house). These types of things would have probably cleaned out anyone that retired with 600K in investments/savings and a paid for 200K house. But, between his carpentry and wife's work he likely managed to not have to touch any of their savings. The market recovered, they downsized, and his blog has made him a fortune.

Pete is not infallible. None of us are.

[jimmymango]

But maybe it would be more impressive to go against the mainstream and show them that there is a great life to be had by working smart and hard early, and being able to live life in any way you choose.

Why are you so worried about what other people think? For some people, the goal is financial independence. For others it's early retirement. You sound like you've gotten to a place where your family is FI, you're at a level of spending which is comfortable for you, you have a job that is fulfilling and balances with enough time to spend with your children/provides you the opportunity to travel with your family. That's a great situation.

It might not be others' idea of what FIRE is supposed to be, but you decide the end goal. I wouldn't compare myself to MMM or anyone else if I were you. In the words of Tony Horton, "Do your best and forget the rest."

[krustyburger]

Don't have anything relevant to add to the thread other than chiming in to say I'm impressed that you're from Houston and you've heard of the phrase "sticky wicket".

I clicked on this thread expecting something cricket related...