Poll

Percent of gross income spent on healthcare

Less than 3%
48 (49.5%)
More than 3%
49 (50.5%)

Total Members Voted: 97

Author Topic: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?  (Read 2930 times)

MrsWolfeRN

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The Medicare portion of FICA tax is 1.45% of gross income (slightly more if you make over $200k). I have heard rumors that it would be cheaper to insure everyone under 65 than everyone over 65. So if we had a national health plan that extended coverage to everyone it would need to cost about 3% of everyone's gross income. (I know that this is an oversimplification and that medicare doesn't cover everything).

  I have a family of four and pretty good insurance from my employer. Last year I spent about 6.4% of my gross income on health insurance, deductibles, and copays. In the first half of this year it was 7%. So I would definitely come out ahead with a "Medicare for all" plan.

What about all of you? Include all insurance premiums, copays, deductibles, etc. Don't include dental, vision, OTC meds, orthodontics, or premiums that are paid by your employer. If you are FIREd, express as a percent of your annual withdrawal. Info on family size and whether the insurance is employer or private would also be helpful.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 01:56:20 PM by MrsWolfeRN »

DreamFIRE

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2018, 02:02:41 PM »
About 0.7% for me.  Family size =1   Employer based coverage, net cost after tax deduction

By the way, Medicare has pretty poor coverage unless you purchase the additional parts and supplementals. Someone in the ACA thread mentioned it was costing about $11,000 per year for Medicare premiums to get adequate healthcare coverage.

Cranky

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2018, 02:29:42 PM »
Are you including the premium your employer pays?

We have insurance through dh's employer, and if you figure in what the employer contribution is (and you should, because it's really part of your compensation) it comes to about 20% of our income. We don't pay much else, most years, because we're pretty healthy. We spend more at the dentist and on glasses than we do at the doctor's, though this year will be different because I'm having a knee replacement.

DreamFIRE

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2018, 02:41:48 PM »
Are you including the premium your employer pays?

OP states:

Quote
Include all insurance premiums, copays, deductibles, etc. Don't include dental, vision, OTC meds, orthodontics, or premiums that are paid by your employer.

Shane

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2018, 02:56:32 PM »
Family of 3. FIREd since mid 2016. Living on ~$40K/year of dividends and capital gains from investments. In 2017 and the first half of 2018 while slow traveling around the world we maintained travel insurance with World Nomads to cover emergencies, which cost ~$150/month. Now that we're back in the US, our health care costs are $0, as we are 100% covered by our state's version of Medicaid.

birdiegirl

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2018, 02:56:52 PM »
Ballpark estimate would be about 5% for DH and I.  We have insurance through my employer with a $6,000 deductible ($3K each).  DH rarely goes to the doctor but I have a couple chronic conditions with medications that add up fast.  I hit my deductible around March this year.  Then I still pay around 20% for office visits, tests, etc. and separate copays on medication. 

Dr Kidstache

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2018, 03:30:41 PM »
I became unexpectedly disabled due to an injury 3 years ago (yes, super healthy people, it can happen to any of us!). Single. Prior to that, was less than 1% of annual spending with employer based coverage.
1st yr of disability: 11% (employer based coverage + COBRA)
2nd yr of disability: 13% (COBRA)
3rd yr of disability: 41% (ACA) --> thank goodness I just got on Medicare recently through SSDI. Ballpark should be 15% with Medicare.

Clever Name

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2018, 03:45:18 PM »
In a typical year, roughly 0%. I am young and healthy and my employer pays 100% of my insurance premiums. Most years I just buy the occasional OTC medications.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2018, 03:58:01 PM »
I only spend about 1% on my health care policy, but with my employer and maxing out my HSA it is 6%.

Steeze

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2018, 04:23:12 PM »
1.6% - DW's employer covers 90% of our $0 deductible plan. If we were on my employer's insurance it would be much much worse; 5.6% with a $5000 deductible (not HSA eligible). I hope she never quits.

maizeman

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2018, 04:28:39 PM »
0.9% of gross income last year not including employer paid portions of healthcare premiums last year.

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2018, 05:57:22 PM »
Now that I'm retired, its about 17% gross.  Much less in the 3 out of 5 years I collected the maximum Obamacare subsidy.  It is substantial if you no longer have employer subsidized healthcare and too young for Medicare.

maizeman

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2018, 06:09:47 PM »
Agreed.

If I had bought an equivalent plan on the ACA exchange, I'd be paying 2.9% of gross pay instead of 0.9%. If I was living on my FIRE budget and paying for an ACA plan it'd be 15% of gross.

G-dog

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2018, 06:16:34 PM »
About 17% - Iím in an HSA for which I get ex-employerís group rate, but no subsidy.  FIREd 3 years. Too young for Medicare.

I would pay a lot more for any ACA plan in my state.

Cranky

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2018, 06:27:04 PM »
Are you including the premium your employer pays?

OP states:

Quote
Include all insurance premiums, copays, deductibles, etc. Don't include dental, vision, OTC meds, orthodontics, or premiums that are paid by your employer.

But the question doesnít make sense that way. (Or maybe I donít understand the question.)

But I have a friend who is German, and what they pay for health insurance as a percentage of salary is not insignificant. Thereís not a magical free button, though there may be a More Rational Plan Button, not that I think weíre going to see it happen.

use2betrix

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2018, 06:35:14 PM »
For just myself, my monthly premium is about .8% of my gross pay for the buy up BCBS PPO plan thatís probably about the best plan money can buy.

What hits me hard is since Iím a contractor and I take time off between jobs. The same plan is like $800/mo for Cobra, and since Iím traveling, the garbage ACA plans that are often HMO only (canít even buy PPO privately in TX) and they donít cover me except life threatening emergencies when Iím on the road, which I do for months at a time.

I always have great cheap care when Iím working, but the group our insurance industry fu*** the most is those that arenít poor and donít get it through an employer. Add someone that wants to travel for a few months and you better hope if you get sick itís life threatening..

DreamFIRE

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2018, 07:05:59 PM »
Add someone that wants to travel for a few months and you better hope if you get sick itís life threatening..

And even emergency care protection out of network won't protect you from balance billing.  You might look into travel insurance as recently brought up in the ACA thread.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-comes-after-the-aca/msg2098134/#msg2098134
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-comes-after-the-aca/msg2098706/#msg2098706

mrcheese

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2018, 11:21:34 PM »
I know you asked for responses from US readers, but I just want to mention that in Australia the Medicare Levy is 2% of your gross income and it is deducted along with your tax. And it covers everyone but not quite everything.

Cassie

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2018, 11:32:28 PM »
When we first retired it was a 4th of our income.   now that I work p. T. It is a 6th before taxes, etc,

CoffeeAndDonuts

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2018, 01:22:25 AM »
About 5% as we carry the full cost of premiums for my wife and kid while employer carries full premium cost for me and makes an excellent HSA contribution.

That said, I AM also the employer so I could also answer 10%.

As an employer, I cannot stand the system. I so wish it weren't expected to be provided by us and think having me making decisions about our employees healthcare coverage is a waste of my time doing something I'm not all that equipped to be doing and which is very much not core to what we do. I resent it. Rant over.

terran

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2018, 06:08:19 AM »
Are you including the premium your employer pays?

OP states:

Quote
Include all insurance premiums, copays, deductibles, etc. Don't include dental, vision, OTC meds, orthodontics, or premiums that are paid by your employer.

But the question doesnít make sense that way. (Or maybe I donít understand the question.)

Agreed.

Also remember that medicare tax is also paid by the employer, so they would have to pay an additional 1.45% and the self employed would be paying an additional 2.9%. Still seems like a good deal for individuals and a screaming great deal for employers except in as much as they lose the shackles of health care to keep people chained to their desk.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 06:11:47 AM by terran »

BTDretire

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2018, 07:27:52 AM »
That brings up the question, "what is income?"

If I use line 22 on my 1040 form,
this would include all my Mustachian dividends and interest.
Then we pay 12%.
 If I include only the earnings from work, (line 12)
Then we pay 17.5%.
 If I use taxable income (line 37),
Then we pay 18.3%
If I use my taxable income, (line 43)
Then we pay 28.3%.
 Family of 4. These numbers just got worse, my daughter
started dental school. The school requires she have a specific health
insurance that is $3,468 a year. That is twice what she cost me on
my policy.

 What 1040 line is your preference?



Sibley

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2018, 07:50:10 AM »
I'm somewhere around 2-3%. It really depends on how bad my asthma gets. Already had one serious flare this year, and I'm expecting the STHTF in September/October (allergies are a major trigger for me). Dental and vision are fairly routine.

tralfamadorian

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2018, 07:50:56 AM »
Add someone that wants to travel for a few months and you better hope if you get sick itís life threatening..

And even emergency care protection out of network won't protect you from balance billing.  You might look into travel insurance as recently brought up in the ACA thread.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-comes-after-the-aca/msg2098134/#msg2098134
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-comes-after-the-aca/msg2098706/#msg2098706

I was just thinking the same thing- that travel insurance may fill in the gap. I don't think DAN was mentioned in either thread and they supposedly have very good results for customers during claims (never have had to make a claim personally).

fuzzy math

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2018, 07:57:58 AM »
About $11k (~8%) these past couple years for a family of 5. Employer based (same rate no matter the # of kids) HSA. Have maxed out of pocket these past 2 yrs. $3k premiums,$6k OOP and $1-2k dental work.




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simonsez

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2018, 08:02:30 AM »
1.45% (Medicare) + $3450 - $600 (HSA minus employer contribution) + $65.50*26 (bi-weekly premiums) = 6.3%

To get under 3% I'd have to slightly more than double my income but then would be subject to the higher Medicare rates (additional 0.9% on anything over 200k).

BicycleB

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2018, 08:19:43 AM »
Between 1.5% and 2.5% based on taxable income of about 14k, and coverage outcomes that vary from year to year. Single 50something FIR(E) using ACA.

Income above is less than "real" income in that some of my practical income is from rent, but that income is not taxed because technically is an expense that offsets my housing cost. Using a fairer income of 19k, healthcare as you define it would be roughly 1% to 2%.

My real spending on healthcare is higher than that because for me, most of the expense is in categories you exclude.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 01:53:55 PM by BicycleB »

maizeman

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2018, 08:31:38 AM »
Between 1.5% and 2.5% based on taxable income of about 14k, and coverage outcomes that vary from year to year. Single 50something FIR(E) using ACA. Subtracting the 12,700 personal deduction from 14k leaves about 1300 AGI; healthcare premiums and copays after subsidy range from roughly 10% to 25% of stated AGI.

Income above is less than "real" income in that some of my practical income is from rent, but that income is not taxed because technically is an expense that offsets my housing cost. Using a fairer income of 19k, healthcare as you define it would be roughly 1% to 2%.

My real spending on healthcare is higher than that because for me, most of the expense is in categories you exclude.

Those are close to ERE numbers! Way to go, Bicycle_B.

wenchsenior

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2018, 08:58:55 AM »
For the past 5 years, about 5-6% for a family of two, covered by the much-envied federal health insurance.  I'm hoping it will drop a bit for the next few years but who knows.  I'm very worried about it rising substantially as we grow older.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 09:02:03 AM by wenchsenior »

partdopy

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2018, 09:00:07 AM »
31 year old male here.  My employer pays 100% of my HDHP premiums, and since my contributions to my HSA are tax deductible, I would say my health care spending is actually negative.

I haven't been to the doctor in probably 3 years though, and still have money in my HSA from my previous employer that matched my HSA contributions.  Overall I'd say my HC spending has been in the negative thousands.

EvenSteven

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2018, 09:22:03 AM »
Yearly premiums for my HDHP through work, plus doctors visits plus over the counter medications total up to about $540 for me. DW is on her own plan at work.

v8rx7guy

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2018, 10:45:06 AM »
Premiums alone are about 2%, we don't have any planned medical expenses throughout the year (no prescriptions, planned visits outside of yearly physicals, etc.).  But as expected stuff happens occasionally that puts us up into the 5% of income toward medical, all the way up to 10% when we had our kids in 2015 & 2017.

If there was a good healthcare covered for all program available, I would say I'd be happy to give up 5% of my income for that.

BicycleB

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2018, 02:05:39 PM »
Between 1.5% and 2.5% based on taxable income of about 14k, and coverage outcomes that vary from year to year. Single 50something FIR(E) using ACA...

Income above is less than "real" income in that some of my practical income is from rent, but that income is not taxed because technically is an expense that offsets my housing cost. Using a fairer income of 19k, healthcare as you define it would be roughly 1% to 2%.

My real spending on healthcare is higher than that because for me, most of the expense is in categories you exclude.

Those are close to ERE numbers! Way to go, Bicycle_B.

Thanks, @maizeman. I don't want to be deceptive, though, so:
- "some of my practical income is from rent" - my cash outlay is about 30k, of which 17k or so is house mortgage, taxes, insurance, repair; rent from roommates is about 15k, mostly classified as expense.
- By covering some portion of outlay through savings drawdown or accepting zero interest debt, in recent years I did not have to show all outlays as income. My taxable income is thus lower than my real long term income, at least slightly. However the question appeared to ask for income as shown in my tax form, so I gave that.
-The housing cost as stated above doesn't count cost of capital - I have a lot of equity. Like MMM himself, my cost would be higher if cost of capital were included.
- The 19k is what I would pay if I rented a room in a house similar to mine. It's also about the net amount based on accounting for cost of capital and living the way I do. (So I break even by owning vs  renting).  So... a little more than ERE, I think, but thanks anyway!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 02:32:03 PM by BicycleB »

inline five

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2018, 02:11:49 PM »
This is kinda a #fakenews comparison.

You can't just magically double the tax and replace employer subsidized insurance, which seems to be the inference from the OP.

As an aside the US spends roughly 16% of our GDP on healthcare which is about double what it was 50 years ago. We spend far above the next highest nation.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2018, 02:39:53 PM »
Including dental insurance about 7%, excluding it about 6%. That's for a family of 7 with excellent health insurance (Tricare Reserve Select through the National Guard) though my wife has a couple of chronic conditions so she has some prescriptions, labs, and occasional trips to a specialist. Everyone else is relatively healthy but I'm sure we had a few urgent care and ER visits in there with five young  kids.

BicycleB

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2018, 02:47:27 PM »
This is kinda a #fakenews comparison.

You can't just magically double the tax and replace employer subsidized insurance, which seems to be the inference from the OP.

As an aside the US spends roughly 16% of our GDP on healthcare which is about double what it was 50 years ago. We spend far above the next highest nation.

Magically, no...but Congress could pass a law that makes it happen. Or at least, a law that causes Medicare for All to replace employer subsidized insurance, with a tax rate approximately double the current 1.45%.

It would have to be determined through experience how close the new rate would be to exactly paying for the costs. Presumably if the variance is large, it would cause problems unless remedied, but that's different from requiring magic.

Fwiw, I assume the 1.45% employer share would also be doubled. So the total amount for expanded Medicare would be 5.8% of pretax wages.  That's much less than 16% of GDP, but wouldn't be expected to cover all costs. It would only replace medical premiums, copays and some deductibles (I think), plus the portion of medical cost currently covered by employer sponsored insurance...will accept correction from those with more detailed knowledge, but a substantial portion of costs was excluded by OP's proposal.

Plus Medicare is sort of efficient, perhaps offering some savings rather than a mere redistribution of costs. Not magic, just efficiency from standardization, eliminating some of the numerous private sector middlemen, and freeing the patient from the need to pay for private sector profits.

So the proposal is plausible, maybe even realistic. Not magic, at least.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 03:12:17 PM by BicycleB »

DreamFIRE

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2018, 03:41:37 PM »
 
Also, Medicare doesn't mean free healthcare as most people seem to think, other than the tax.  By the time you add the various parts/supplementals to get adequate full coverage, it could get very expensive.  As I noted earlier, someone on Medicare stated they were paying about $11,000 /yr.

Your income after you subtract your standard deduction is NOT AGI.

An HSA is not the same as paying for healthcare expenses, that's the saving part.  The spending will come later.

Your current Medicare tax is not the same as paying for your own premiums and healthcare expenses.

If I had Medicare instead of my health insurance through work, my total out of pocket would be much higher.  I prefer to stick to my 0.7% figure posted earlier, until I FIRE.

maizeman

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2018, 03:49:37 PM »
Also, Medicare doesn't mean free healthcare as most people seem to think, other than the tax.  By the time you add the various parts/supplementals to get adequate full coverage, it could get very expensive.  As I noted earlier, someone on Medicare stated they were paying about $11,000 /yr.

I believe this number was for two people, wasn't it? I could be misremembering that bit.

However, I do clearly remember that this example assumed you made significant use of the hospital throughout the year (realistic for someone old enough to qualify for current medicare, probably not for a lot of the younger healthier people who would be covered in an expanded medicare for all), and also included extremely comprehensive supplemental plans for drugs and doctors visits (which again likely make sense for people who expect to hit their deductibles most years but not for younger healthier adults, and would also likely cost less even for the exact same coverage for younger and healthier adults).

I'm not arguing it's not a useful datapoint, but for many folks a medicare for all plan would not require coming up with nearly so much out of pocket in an average year.

DreamFIRE

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2018, 05:03:00 PM »
Also, Medicare doesn't mean free healthcare as most people seem to think, other than the tax.  By the time you add the various parts/supplementals to get adequate full coverage, it could get very expensive.  As I noted earlier, someone on Medicare stated they were paying about $11,000 /yr.

I believe this number was for two people, wasn't it? I could be misremembering that bit.

However, I do clearly remember that this example assumed you made significant use of the hospital throughout the year (realistic for someone old enough to qualify for current medicare, probably not for a lot of the younger healthier people who would be covered in an expanded medicare for all), and also included extremely comprehensive supplemental plans for drugs and doctors visits (which again likely make sense for people who expect to hit their deductibles most years but not for younger healthier adults, and would also likely cost less even for the exact same coverage for younger and healthier adults).

I'm not arguing it's not a useful datapoint, but for many folks a medicare for all plan would not require coming up with nearly so much out of pocket in an average year.

Yes, that was a couple.  There's a cost to part B.  To protect yourself against having to pay 20% of those costs out of pocket, you need a supplemental.  And prescriptions can be very expensive for anyone, and you can't add Part D later without a penalty.  Of course anything could change if Medicare was expanded to all, but the point is that it's not free, it's not paid for only by the tax.

maizeman

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2018, 05:30:27 PM »
Yup, it'd be more than just the payroll deduction, but a lot less than the number you put forward previously.

So let's start with $5,500/year part A deductible, part B supplemental insurance, and part D coverage per year (off by 50%).

-Now most people are not hospitalized in most years, so assuming you'll pay the maximum part A deductible each benefit period seems misleadingly pessimistic for people in their 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s.

-Similarly for parts B and D, bringing in a lot more young and healthy people into medicare would either mean setting a new separate insurance premium for those younger enrollees which would be much lower or alternatively if all enrollees are lumped together would bring down the insurance premium for all medicare enrollees, although less so than in the first option.

Here are some hard numbers on how big the difference in drug insurance costs would be for current medicare enrollees and people currently too young to enroll in medicare:



So americans >=65 years old (essentially those currently on medicare) spend about $800/year on prescription drugs and those 18-65 years old spend ~$300/year on average.

Laserjet3051

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2018, 05:53:01 PM »
The ACA caps my healthcare premiums at 9.5% of income (MAGI). Without the ACa subsidy, premiums would be ~ 20% of my (M)AGI. Thats the floor for my healthcare costs. Add in co-pays, uncovered expenses, meds, etc etc and I'm probably closer to 12%. W/O the subsidy I'd be cracking the 25% threshold. This is for a very healthy family of 4.

Where did you come up with the 3% criterion for voting? I'm so far north of that it aint funny.

DreamFIRE

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2018, 07:00:09 PM »
The ACA caps my healthcare premiums at 9.5% of income (MAGI). Without the ACa subsidy, premiums would be ~ 20% of my (M)AGI. Thats the floor for my healthcare costs. Add in co-pays, uncovered expenses, meds, etc etc and I'm probably closer to 12%. W/O the subsidy I'd be cracking the 25% threshold. This is for a very healthy family of 4.

Where did you come up with the 3% criterion for voting? I'm so far north of that it aint funny.

Medicare costs would be far north of 3% as well to get full coverage.  People think it just means free healthcare - not even close.

jlcnuke

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2018, 06:08:05 AM »
I pay 0.6% of my base pay in medical insurance premiums. If I had to pay my out of pocket maximum plus my insurance premiums each year it would be 3.7% of my base salary.  With my "normal" amount of pay (including base and overtime and other income sources) it would be about 2.5% of my total income in an average year.

In reality, I pay my premium and generally nothing else because I also have VA healthcare for free. So I just keep the work plan as a backup in case I don't want to wait to get in to a VA facility or want something more convenient (like telemedicine for $25 copay through the work plan).

nkt0

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2018, 06:30:22 AM »
I pay nothing but modest ($40) copays so far as a relatively healthy adult because my employer pays 100% of my premiums. But they don't pay anything for my spouse, who is on an individual plan through the only option available in our area (there's no competition for health insurance in Philadelphia). She pays $365/month for a high deductible plan, plus copays. It doesn't cover her mental health costs, either, which are substantial.

That said, i don't believe we will see Medicare for All happen because of the simple fact that the boomers already have Medicare and selfishness will prevent them from voting to raise taxes to support something that doesn't benefit them. Since they vote at such a higher rate than young people, it will be decades before something like this is viable politically. That doesn't even factor in the lobbying by the establishment health industrial complex. I hope the millennials prove me wrong, but i am very pessimistic about universal single-payer in the US.

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2018, 06:59:31 AM »
Income is too wildly variable to base off of but it is generally around 15-20% of our spending.  Family of 5, self-employed, private insurance.  This is our second largest expense (taxes is #1)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 07:02:05 AM by Much Fishing to Do »

simonsez

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2018, 08:37:48 AM »
I pay nothing but modest ($40) copays so far as a relatively healthy adult because my employer pays 100% of my premiums. But they don't pay anything for my spouse, who is on an individual plan through the only option available in our area (there's no competition for health insurance in Philadelphia). She pays $365/month for a high deductible plan, plus copays. It doesn't cover her mental health costs, either, which are substantial.

That said, i don't believe we will see Medicare for All happen because of the simple fact that the boomers already have Medicare and selfishness will prevent them from voting to raise taxes to support something that doesn't benefit them. Since they vote at such a higher rate than young people, it will be decades before something like this is viable politically. That doesn't even factor in the lobbying by the establishment health industrial complex. I hope the millennials prove me wrong, but i am very pessimistic about universal single-payer in the US.
I think we will still have plenty of people 65+ decades from now as well.  ;-)

I take your point though - I believe that incremental changes would have to go into effect to see progress toward expanding Medicare.  e.g. Introduce additional Medicare coverage via taxes to younger people first and let the older people grandfathered with the lower rates die off.

nkt0

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2018, 08:50:32 AM »
I think we will still have plenty of people 65+ decades from now as well.  ;-)

I know you are being snarky, but the reason i say it will be decades (and not never) is because of demographics. The millennial generation is substantially bigger than gen x and will eventually outnumber boomers as they die off. There will be a demographic moment where pre-medicare (youngish) voters outnumber medicare (old) voters and that will be the chance to reform the systemÖif it isn't killed off entirely before then.

Sid Hoffman

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2018, 10:27:31 AM »
The cost of medicare for all has been projected at anywhere from $1.4 trillion to $3.3 trillion per year.  In 2017, the combined payroll tax income for medicare, medicaid, and social security all together was about $1.1 trillion.  Since the employee + employer portion of social security, medicare, and medicaid is 15.3% of gross income, this means to raise $1.4 to $3.3 trillion would require a payroll tax increase of 19.5% to 45.9% in order to cover all costs via payroll tax.

I'm not sure about you guys, but I don't really like the idea of an additional 19.5% payroll tax and I am absolutely not on board with an additional 45.9% payroll tax.

wenchsenior

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2018, 10:44:52 AM »
If you are saying that the payroll tax would increase by ~50% over what it currently is (i.e., from 15.3 to about 23% of wages), I would be 100% ok with that.  And I am self employed, so I pay both ends of that tax.

ETA: In fact, I would be 100% ok with this even if I personally STILL had to also pay the ~6K/year in premiums for private health insurance that I currently do, if it meant that all citizens could receive the same coverage and not have to worry about losing it when they changed jobs.  Also, it would benefit companies who could stop worrying about the costs of covering employees as a changing percentage of their bottom line every year.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 10:52:51 AM by wenchsenior »

PDXTabs

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Re: US mustachians, what percent of your income do you spend on healthcare?
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2018, 11:38:58 AM »
The cost of medicare for all has been projected at anywhere from $1.4 trillion to $3.3 trillion per year.  In 2017, the combined payroll tax income for medicare, medicaid, and social security all together was about $1.1 trillion.  Since the employee + employer portion of social security, medicare, and medicaid is 15.3% of gross income, this means to raise $1.4 to $3.3 trillion would require a payroll tax increase of 19.5% to 45.9% in order to cover all costs via payroll tax.

I'm not sure about you guys, but I don't really like the idea of an additional 19.5% payroll tax and I am absolutely not on board with an additional 45.9% payroll tax.

The UK spends 7.7% of its GDP to make sure that every citizen has a decent level of basic care (source). The US is currently spending 8.5% of its GDP on Medicare+Medicaid+ACA. That isn't counting any of your private contributions, if you add private contributions in the US you get 17.1% of GDP (to the UK's 9.7%). That's insane. If you copied and pasted the UK system into the US we could have Medicare for all for $1.49T per year (in 2017 dollars, that obviously does not count social security). I'm not saying that we should pay for it with a payroll tax, I'm saying that it is insane that the UK pays so much less for health care than the US. This isn't an economic problem*, it is a political one.

* - Except that it is quickly becoming an economic problem for the US economy.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 12:13:21 PM by PDXTabs »