US citizens planning on retiring in Europe?

[Paul der Krake]

There's no such thing as an underpowered car. If it's street-legal in a first-world country, it has plenty of power.

My grandmother drives a 1.2L Citroen. It's 20 years old. It lacks power steering. It climbs the mountains around her village just fine. It goes on the highway at 130 kmph just fine. It's just fine.

[Playing with Fire UK]

+1 Paul.

If you can't use the correct gears and plan overtakes in advance you need to upgrade your skills, not the car.

I didn't drive 25 years ago so this could have changed. There were definitely some tiny car-looking things that were not legally cars years ago that I wouldn't have taken on the motorway.

[Villanelle]

We lived in Germany for 3 years and drove a lot around the country, and ventured into some other countries as well.  We owned a Toyota Echo (precursor to the Yaris, if you aren't familiar)  and a PT Cruiser. (The Echo was American spec and the Cruiser German/European.)  Obviously, neither are powerhouses, but both were just fine for every place we went, while also being small enough that we never had to worry about parking garage clearance (a real concern for plenty of our American friends driving their American cars.  We also weren't especially traumatized by the tiny roads we came across and neither was so nice that a case of angry pole disease on the side would have been especially upsetting. 

[BGordon]

There's no such thing as an underpowered car. If it's street-legal in a first-world country, it has plenty of power.

My grandmother drives a 1.2L Citroen. It's 20 years old. It lacks power steering. It climbs the mountains around her village just fine. It goes on the highway at 130 kmph just fine. It's just fine.

+1 Paul.

If you can't use the correct gears and plan overtakes in advance you need to upgrade your skills, not the car.

I didn't drive 25 years ago so this could have changed. There were definitely some tiny car-looking things that were not legally cars years ago that I wouldn't have taken on the motorway.

You can drill a hole with a 12v drill or a 20v drill but if you have a lot of holes to drill and the wood is dense, you will wish you had the 20v drill.  Its called having the right tool for the job!

[Paul der Krake]

Sure, but if you find yourself drilling a lot of holes all the time, you should question why you're drilling so many damn holes.

[Playing with Fire UK]

The speed limit on European roads is around 70mph or 130 kph. You only need the 20v drill if you are breaking the law.

If you want to drive on a track, yes, you absolutely will do better with a more appropriate drill.

[Rightflyer]

Agreeing with the previous posters regarding the need for more driving skill - less power.

My anecdotal evidence...

a) Rented an Opel Vectra in the early '90s for 3 weeks driving around Germany. With 75 hp we travelled at 160 kph (100 mph) everywhere on the Autobahn.

b) Fiat 500 (old model) over the mountains in Italy a number of times.

No problem keeping up with traffic anywhere. You do need to learn how to drive though.


 

[BGordon]

Sure, but if you find yourself drilling a lot of holes all the time, you should question why you're drilling so many damn holes.

I didn't say anything about drilling holes all of the time, I was talking about one trip across several countries in Europe.

For the city or backroads I think the small cars are fine, probably much better.  And if you want, you are welcome to drive a small engine car across a couple of countries on a major highway, but I've had that experience and don't care to do it again.   

[BGordon]

The speed limit on European roads is around 70mph or 130 kph. You only need the 20v drill if you are breaking the law.

If you want to drive on a track, yes, you absolutely will do better with a more appropriate drill.

That might be the law, but there weren't too many people traveling in the left lane that were obeying that law.  I spent most of my time in the middle lane and even when passing I don't think I exceeded 120kph.  It wasn't a question of how fast the vehicle would go, it was a question of how quickly it could do it.

[Paul der Krake]

Sure, but if you find yourself drilling a lot of holes all the time, you should question why you're drilling so many damn holes.

I didn't say anything about drilling holes all of the time, I was talking about one trip across several countries in Europe.

For the city or backroads I think the small cars are fine, probably much better.  And if you want, you are welcome to drive a small engine car across a couple of countries on a major highway, but I've had that experience and don't care to do it again.   

Ha, I get it now. Yeah, if the main purpose of your trip is to drive around, it makes sense to rent something a little more comfortable.

For everyone else who doesn't or shouldn't drive long stretches regularly, econoboxes are fine. And yes, I have driven many hundreds of miles on the highway in western Europe in tiny cars built in the 90s. I admit the lack of cruise control is a minor annoyance.

[BGordon]

Sure, but if you find yourself drilling a lot of holes all the time, you should question why you're drilling so many damn holes.

I didn't say anything about drilling holes all of the time, I was talking about one trip across several countries in Europe.

For the city or backroads I think the small cars are fine, probably much better.  And if you want, you are welcome to drive a small engine car across a couple of countries on a major highway, but I've had that experience and don't care to do it again.   

Ha, I get it now. Yeah, if the main purpose of your trip is to drive around, it makes sense to rent something a little more comfortable.

For everyone else who doesn't or shouldn't drive long stretches regularly, econoboxes are fine. And yes, I have driven many hundreds of miles on the highway in western Europe in tiny cars built in the 90s. I admit the lack of cruise control is a minor annoyance.

That is all I was saying. 

I'm not saying you can't drive across county in a small engine car (I did it), and I'm not saying that you need to purchase a large engine car for the occasional long trip.  I'm saying that the little Fiat was not the best car for that trip and if I were doing it again, I would have rented a larger car, that had more power and more room for our luggage.  It would have been a lot more convenient.

[aspiringnomad]

I also have experience driving econoboxes all over Europe, NZ, and even Mexico and they do the job just fine. Obviously a nicer car would be a more comfortable ride, but it is absolutely not necessary if you drive stick well and understand the limitations of the car. So upgrading to a mid range car is just a luxury and often a very costly one.

[BGordon]

I don't have a problem with small cars.  In fact, I think those Twizys would be great for everyday use in a city.

https://www.renault.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/twizy.html

[BGordon]

I also have experience driving econoboxes all over Europe, NZ, and even Mexico and they do the job just fine. Obviously a nicer car would be a more comfortable ride, but it is absolutely not necessary if you drive stick well and understand the limitations of the car. So upgrading to a mid range car is just a luxury and often a very costly one.

Part of the problem (which I mentioned in the original post) was that the car was an automatic.  My wife rented an automatic because she had planned to do some of the driving.

[iamlindoro]

I bought and drove a Renault Clio (https://www.renault.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/new-clio.html) to a few dozen countries over the course of the year that I lived in France-- as far west as Portugal, and as far east as Macedonia. It was the perfect car for that kind of drive, but also worked great as a city car-- great trim package, felt roomy inside, but also economical enough to not be too painful on my freshly-graduated-from-college budget. I still miss that car. The closest car (built on the same platform) in the US is the Nissan Versa.

[Playing with Fire UK]

I also have experience driving econoboxes all over Europe, NZ, and even Mexico and they do the job just fine. Obviously a nicer car would be a more comfortable ride, but it is absolutely not necessary if you drive stick well and understand the limitations of the car. So upgrading to a mid range car is just a luxury and often a very costly one.

Part of the problem (which I mentioned in the original post) was that the car was an automatic.  My wife rented an automatic because she had planned to do some of the driving.

Automatics are heavier. Kicking down to lower gears helps with this but a lot of drivers don't know how.

[Eric]

I also have experience driving econoboxes all over Europe, NZ, and even Mexico and they do the job just fine. Obviously a nicer car would be a more comfortable ride, but it is absolutely not necessary if you drive stick well and understand the limitations of the car. So upgrading to a mid range car is just a luxury and often a very costly one.

Part of the problem (which I mentioned in the original post) was that the car was an automatic.  My wife rented an automatic because she had planned to do some of the driving.

You should teach her to drive a stick.  What better car to learn on than a rental?  ;)

[Rightflyer]

I also have experience driving econoboxes all over Europe, NZ, and even Mexico and they do the job just fine. Obviously a nicer car would be a more comfortable ride, but it is absolutely not necessary if you drive stick well and understand the limitations of the car. So upgrading to a mid range car is just a luxury and often a very costly one.

Part of the problem (which I mentioned in the original post) was that the car was an automatic.  My wife rented an automatic because she had planned to do some of the driving.

Automatics are heavier. Kicking down to lower gears helps with this but a lot of drivers don't know how.

Oh heck. I missed the automatic part.

Yeah. You can't compare an automatic to a manual. Leave the automatic behind...

[Rightflyer]

I also have experience driving econoboxes all over Europe, NZ, and even Mexico and they do the job just fine. Obviously a nicer car would be a more comfortable ride, but it is absolutely not necessary if you drive stick well and understand the limitations of the car. So upgrading to a mid range car is just a luxury and often a very costly one.

Part of the problem (which I mentioned in the original post) was that the car was an automatic.  My wife rented an automatic because she had planned to do some of the driving.

You should teach her to drive a stick.  What better car to learn on than a rental?  ;)

Nothing out-corners and out-accelerates a rental!

[BGordon]

I also have experience driving econoboxes all over Europe, NZ, and even Mexico and they do the job just fine. Obviously a nicer car would be a more comfortable ride, but it is absolutely not necessary if you drive stick well and understand the limitations of the car. So upgrading to a mid range car is just a luxury and often a very costly one.

Part of the problem (which I mentioned in the original post) was that the car was an automatic.  My wife rented an automatic because she had planned to do some of the driving.

Automatics are heavier. Kicking down to lower gears helps with this but a lot of drivers don't know how.

Agreed.  You could do it on this car, but it took a little getting used to.  It required some thought, whereas I down shift without thinking when using a stick.  Even then, there seemed to be a time delay.

[BGordon]

I also have experience driving econoboxes all over Europe, NZ, and even Mexico and they do the job just fine. Obviously a nicer car would be a more comfortable ride, but it is absolutely not necessary if you drive stick well and understand the limitations of the car. So upgrading to a mid range car is just a luxury and often a very costly one.

Part of the problem (which I mentioned in the original post) was that the car was an automatic.  My wife rented an automatic because she had planned to do some of the driving.

You should teach her to drive a stick.  What better car to learn on than a rental?  ;)

She can drive a stick, she just didn't want to.  She's lazy - LOL

[BGordon]

I also have experience driving econoboxes all over Europe, NZ, and even Mexico and they do the job just fine. Obviously a nicer car would be a more comfortable ride, but it is absolutely not necessary if you drive stick well and understand the limitations of the car. So upgrading to a mid range car is just a luxury and often a very costly one.

Part of the problem (which I mentioned in the original post) was that the car was an automatic.  My wife rented an automatic because she had planned to do some of the driving.

You should teach her to drive a stick.  What better car to learn on than a rental?  ;)

Nothing out-corners and out-accelerates a rental!

LOL!  Yes, I had a lot of fun with the other Fiat on the first trip (standard).  All those winding roads in Tuscany.  That was entertainment!

[Playing with Fire UK]

All those winding roads in Tuscany.  That was entertainment!

Hell yes! There are some roads that you get to the end of and would happily turn around and drive again. That is definitely entertainment rather than transport!

[BGordon]

All those winding roads in Tuscany.  That was entertainment!

Hell yes! There are some roads that you get to the end of and would happily turn around and drive again. That is definitely entertainment rather than transport!

The roads that lead up to the hill top villages were especially fun.  The roads fold back on themselves in almost a 180 degree turn.  I was much more aggressive on the way up than the way down. 

[Playing with Fire UK]

Next time: motorbike!

[BGordon]

Next time: motorbike!

I imagine that would be really fun.

[gaja]

Convoluted driving patterns and high fines is just normal parts of driving in Europe. The extreme example is Finland, where your speeding ticket is based on your income: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-home-of-the-103000-speeding-ticket/387484/ Restricted and expensive parking is also the norm, and city cars is an old concept here. The new development is that cities are moving towards intentionally making it difficult owning and driving a car. Oslo har already increased their toll road fees, removed parking places, and banned diesel fuelled cars during the days with highest air pollution. They are planning to have near to no cars in the city center in a few years: https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2017/04/oslo-is-on-track-for-a-car-free-future/522882/

This is a city phenomenon, the rural areas will still be more or less car friendly. But large cars are not necessarily the best for these either. This is my favorite mountain road: https://no.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g190503-d3502304-Reviews-Aursjovegen_Road-More_og_Romsdal_Western_Norway.html The tunnels are very narrow; you can't get through with a caravan or larger car, and if you meet someone, one of you have to reverse back through the dark. In one of them, you turn 180 degrees inside the mountain. In my opinion, electric cars are the best option for travelling Europe. Very few fossil fuelled cars offer as good acelleration, especially in the small/city car segment, many countries offer incentives like free charging, free parking, reduced tariffs for toll roads, and access to larger parts of towns.

Regarding driving licenses, some countries have stricter rules than others. To get a Norwegian driving licence, you have to pass to additional tests compared to most other countries: driving in the dark, and driving on ice.

[Linea_Norway]

Regarding driving licenses, some countries have stricter rules than others. To get a Norwegian driving licence, you have to pass to additional tests compared to most other countries: driving in the dark, and driving on ice.

But when you have a driving license that can be transferred into Norwegian, like a Dutch license, then you get the Norwegian license without doing these extra tests.

[Chairman]

Perhaps this thread should be titled "Driving in Europe".