Author Topic: Unethical ways to save money  (Read 44165 times)

destron

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #100 on: January 25, 2013, 03:28:17 PM »
Ok, here's one I'm questionable about the ethics on.

Signing up for Netflix or eMusic or some similar service that offers a month free to begin with before initiating recurring payments.  I've been known to take the free month and cancel at the end of it.  ...And then use a different credit card next time I want a free month.

I figure, if they wanted to crack down they could since I use the same billing address for my credit card.  They probably get so much money from people that only intend on using a month and then never cancel.  I even forget to cancel sometimes and they get some $$ out of me.

You are committing fraud (admittedly at a very low level) by doing this. You are using a trick to misrepresent yourself as multiple new customers to avoid the lawful charges after the first month. This falls into unethical for sure.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/502.7.html

turtlefield76

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #101 on: January 25, 2013, 06:22:15 PM »
re: tipping

i can be very frugal but this is one area where i will always tip the full amount regardless of the service.  i got a job in high school being a bus boy at a local diner style restaurant and that experience sealed the deal for me.  two two waitresses that i worked with were both stressed out women one younger and one older who had some tough breaks and relied on tips to support families.  they were often surly and generally stressed out but they always gave me share of their tips and from that point on i always tip the full amount.  it's a stressful job and dealing with pubic 24/7 is a pain and people who wait tables for a living often rely on tips to make end meet.  you never know what people are going through so while i will cheap out of almost everything else this is one area where i will not. 

travelbug

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #102 on: January 27, 2013, 03:53:07 PM »

1)  "borrowing" things/money from people and then conveniently "forget" about it

Off topic, but one of my finance professors liked giving life lessons to his classes. One of his lessons was that letting people borrow $20 is an easy way to see who's trustworthy and who's not - particularly useful in business.

That is a "cheap" cool way to confirm our feeling about someone. I think I may steal that one!

That said, there is a difference between cheap and frugal. I think that if you put money before all else in your life you will end up very lonely, bitter and pessimistic. I just cannot believe people would actually contemplate most things in this thread. the Costco return policy has blown me away! How can people live with themselves?

I think being FI with your ethics and morals in place is far more rewarding than ripping other people, including the system, off.

Khao

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #103 on: January 29, 2013, 08:10:19 AM »
I just remembered a really dirty trick to save money on used cars. I think I read this once on /r/frugal over reddit and it still blows my mind when I think about it.

Look in the obituaries and call the families of those person asking them about their car. Yep. Ask for dead people's cars. You can say "Mr. X had an ad in a newspaper about his car. Hoo, he's deceased? I'm so sorry. blah blah blah" and invent stories since the families have no way of knowing if what you're saying is true. The original poster on reddit said he used to do this as a broke college student to get a really cheap car since the families didn't care for the price in times like these. Mostly, they'd try to sell it really quickly to get some money to pay for the funeral and stuff.

Not illegal, not really unethical but damnit it takes a lot of nerve to call dead people's families asking for their car and is borderline mean.

kolorado

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #104 on: January 29, 2013, 08:31:47 AM »
I just remembered a really dirty trick to save money on used cars. I think I read this once on /r/frugal over reddit and it still blows my mind when I think about it.

Look in the obituaries and call the families of those person asking them about their car. Yep. Ask for dead people's cars. You can say "Mr. X had an ad in a newspaper about his car. Hoo, he's deceased? I'm so sorry. blah blah blah" and invent stories since the families have no way of knowing if what you're saying is true. The original poster on reddit said he used to do this as a broke college student to get a really cheap car since the families didn't care for the price in times like these. Mostly, they'd try to sell it really quickly to get some money to pay for the funeral and stuff.

Not illegal, not really unethical but damnit it takes a lot of nerve to call dead people's families asking for their car and is borderline mean.

That is so wrong it's actually funny! What some people have the nerve to do just makes me shake my head.

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #105 on: January 29, 2013, 09:50:31 AM »
We had someone try to prey on our emotions when my Mom died suddenly 5 years ago.  She owned some business assets that a competitor was trying to buy from her.  Two days after she died, (she died the night before a holiday, and so I'm not even sure how they heard about her death, since the obit hadn't even gone out yet) they called my Dad's house, and asked him if he wanted to sell.  He told them to call the lawyers.

It still makes me mad, to think about them calling him then.

sheepstache

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #106 on: January 31, 2013, 12:10:09 PM »
I just remembered a really dirty trick to save money on used cars. I think I read this once on /r/frugal over reddit and it still blows my mind when I think about it.

Look in the obituaries and call the families of those person asking them about their car. Yep. Ask for dead people's cars. You can say "Mr. X had an ad in a newspaper about his car. Hoo, he's deceased? I'm so sorry. blah blah blah" and invent stories since the families have no way of knowing if what you're saying is true. The original poster on reddit said he used to do this as a broke college student to get a really cheap car since the families didn't care for the price in times like these. Mostly, they'd try to sell it really quickly to get some money to pay for the funeral and stuff.

Not illegal, not really unethical but damnit it takes a lot of nerve to call dead people's families asking for their car and is borderline mean.

There's a brilliant Roald Dahl story about immoral bookshop owners who send invoices to recently bereaved prominent families.  It's always an invoice for some horribly pornographic stuff, like underage or racist erotica,  so that the family will be so embarassed about the fear of publicity that they pay up no questions asked.  Of course it leaves a horrible stain on the memory of the loved one.

They finally get their comeuppance when they try the trick on the family of a blind man :)

Khao

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #107 on: January 31, 2013, 12:24:22 PM »
There's a brilliant Roald Dahl story about immoral bookshop owners who send invoices to recently bereaved prominent families.  It's always an invoice for some horribly pornographic stuff, like underage or racist erotica,  so that the family will be so embarassed about the fear of publicity that they pay up no questions asked.  Of course it leaves a horrible stain on the memory of the loved one.

They finally get their comeuppance when they try the trick on the family of a blind man :)

One of the best trolling I've ever heard of!

DoubleDown

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #108 on: January 31, 2013, 12:28:56 PM »
For some reason, it is customary to take advantage of the "house" when you're gambling in a casino. Sometimes they will overpay you on a win, or make another mistake in your favor (such as incorrectly paying you when you really have lost). NEVER do you tell the dealer, "Wait a minute, you made a mistake -- you should not have paid me." Instead you quietly and quickly rake in the money, because once you've taken it the casino is no longer allowed to correct their mistake. This is the customary and expected behavior, and I've never felt any qualms about taking advantage of these situations when they happen. I just don't know why this is the case in casino gambling, other than it is obviously set up from the onset as a "you vs. them" situation. Any other business I would (and do) point out any mistake that is in my favor, as I would in a friendly poker game.

arebelspy

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #109 on: January 31, 2013, 04:15:00 PM »
For some reason, it is customary to take advantage of the "house" when you're gambling in a casino. Sometimes they will overpay you on a win, or make another mistake in your favor (such as incorrectly paying you when you really have lost). NEVER do you tell the dealer, "Wait a minute, you made a mistake -- you should not have paid me." Instead you quietly and quickly rake in the money, because once you've taken it the casino is no longer allowed to correct their mistake. This is the customary and expected behavior, and I've never felt any qualms about taking advantage of these situations when they happen. I just don't know why this is the case in casino gambling, other than it is obviously set up from the onset as a "you vs. them" situation. Any other business I would (and do) point out any mistake that is in my favor, as I would in a friendly poker game.

Just to comment on the absolutes in your post (such as the giant "never"): I've corrected them and told them they overpaid me and given it back before.

But it does fit in with the theme of this topic in general.
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Roadrunner53

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #110 on: May 03, 2019, 09:59:21 AM »
What about people who have small businesses where they get paid cash and conveniently don't claim it as income? Lots of people like barbers, beauticians, housecleaners, small stores, food carts, vending machines, laundromats, pet sitting, flea market sales and many other things.

dragoncar

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #111 on: May 03, 2019, 12:50:42 PM »
Murder

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #112 on: May 03, 2019, 01:10:36 PM »
If you own a business, here is a common unethical trick -- buy several computers as a biz expense (i.e. Costco), then return them and collect the cash.  That would be tax fraud, so it goes beyond ethics, but this type of stuff is commonly done.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 01:12:47 PM by HBFIRE »

stoaX

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #113 on: May 03, 2019, 01:47:56 PM »
I would add disability to this, which is probably a far greater issue and easier to pull off "OHHHH my BACK"
 

I remember sitting on the bench at pickup hockey asking the guy next to me what he did for a living.  He said he was out on disability with a back problem...and then jumped over the boards for his turn...

Roadrunner53

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #114 on: May 03, 2019, 02:17:01 PM »
My spouse used to work for the school system in their maintenance department. He observed his co workers and teachers bringing bags of garbage every day to throw in the school dumpsters! I also have a neighbor who I have never seen them put out garbage cans for pick up in about 25 years. They both have jobs that they have access to dumpsters. I always wonder if they take their garbage to work.

One day I was downtown at an attorney's parking lot. While I sat in my car I saw a car pull in off the street to the adjoining property that had a dumpster in their parking lot. The guy opened his trunk, pulled out a bag of garbage, chucked it into the dumpster and drove off! I am sure this happens a lot when people can throw stuff in public trash cans, gas stations, public ball fields, businesses with trash cans out side the front door.

yyc-phil

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #115 on: May 03, 2019, 02:47:46 PM »
Using public roads without paying the tax on gas that pays for those roads (either electric vehicle or bike).

You seem to be a little misinformed on how road funding actually works. Here, read this

This is indeed a very common and baseless "fact" that can be debunked easily as your link demonstrates. But those making that kind of statement about the evil cyclists usually don't bother with facts.

mathlete

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #116 on: May 03, 2019, 03:28:12 PM »
My spouse used to work for the school system in their maintenance department. He observed his co workers and teachers bringing bags of garbage every day to throw in the school dumpsters! I also have a neighbor who I have never seen them put out garbage cans for pick up in about 25 years. They both have jobs that they have access to dumpsters. I always wonder if they take their garbage to work.

One day I was downtown at an attorney's parking lot. While I sat in my car I saw a car pull in off the street to the adjoining property that had a dumpster in their parking lot. The guy opened his trunk, pulled out a bag of garbage, chucked it into the dumpster and drove off! I am sure this happens a lot when people can throw stuff in public trash cans, gas stations, public ball fields, businesses with trash cans out side the front door.

Why is this unethical? It just seems kind of inconvenient for the person doing it.

I must be missing something.

Fish Sweet

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #117 on: May 03, 2019, 03:36:28 PM »
Combining the best of shitty tippers & mooching off of friends, someone I know saves money knowing that all her friends are generous tippers (many having been in the service industry themselves) and so leaves barely any tip at all for her portion of the tip, knowing that it'll still even out to about 15% or so even without her contribution.  :)  To be honest, it really burns my bagels knowing that she's """saving money""" and even when I tip 25%+ the server still isn't going to see a high tip because she's such a cheapskate, but calling her out on it would be more trouble than it would be worth and I'm not about to stiff a server out of spite so.... oh well.

Another unethical of saving money is when you need multiples of an item, ordering one and then when you receive it, contacting the seller to say that it never arrived and you need another one shipped out.   I've seen this... from the seller's side, fun enough.

ducky19

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #118 on: May 03, 2019, 03:50:45 PM »
I love it when old threads get resurrected! Keep 'em coming!

My spouse used to work for the school system in their maintenance department. He observed his co workers and teachers bringing bags of garbage every day to throw in the school dumpsters! I also have a neighbor who I have never seen them put out garbage cans for pick up in about 25 years. They both have jobs that they have access to dumpsters. I always wonder if they take their garbage to work.

One day I was downtown at an attorney's parking lot. While I sat in my car I saw a car pull in off the street to the adjoining property that had a dumpster in their parking lot. The guy opened his trunk, pulled out a bag of garbage, chucked it into the dumpster and drove off! I am sure this happens a lot when people can throw stuff in public trash cans, gas stations, public ball fields, businesses with trash cans out side the front door.

Why is this unethical? It just seems kind of inconvenient for the person doing it.

I must be missing something.

My neighbor has access to a dumpster at work and uses it for his own waste, but not because he wants to. Our local waste management company (small, rural town) "cut him off" because he had some drywall scraps in one of his cans one time. The waste management company is extremely difficult impossible to get in touch with (we once tried to get a dumpster from them - after 5 unanswered phone calls and no returned calls from the messages we left, we gave up). As a result, he uses his work's dumpster. Does he feel guilty about it? A little... but it's not like he didn't try to make amends and do the right thing.

dragoncar

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #119 on: May 03, 2019, 04:32:28 PM »
My spouse used to work for the school system in their maintenance department. He observed his co workers and teachers bringing bags of garbage every day to throw in the school dumpsters! I also have a neighbor who I have never seen them put out garbage cans for pick up in about 25 years. They both have jobs that they have access to dumpsters. I always wonder if they take their garbage to work.

One day I was downtown at an attorney's parking lot. While I sat in my car I saw a car pull in off the street to the adjoining property that had a dumpster in their parking lot. The guy opened his trunk, pulled out a bag of garbage, chucked it into the dumpster and drove off! I am sure this happens a lot when people can throw stuff in public trash cans, gas stations, public ball fields, businesses with trash cans out side the front door.

Why is this unethical? It just seems kind of inconvenient for the person doing it.

I must be missing something.

To the extent that there is extra space when the dumpster is picked up, itís fine.  But dumpsters cost money and bigger ones are more expensive.  So if the school or business ever has to upgrade their service, or selects a service level based on inflated fullness from moochers, thatís unethical no?

HBFIRE

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #120 on: May 03, 2019, 04:40:55 PM »
My spouse used to work for the school system in their maintenance department. He observed his co workers and teachers bringing bags of garbage every day to throw in the school dumpsters! I also have a neighbor who I have never seen them put out garbage cans for pick up in about 25 years. They both have jobs that they have access to dumpsters. I always wonder if they take their garbage to work.

One day I was downtown at an attorney's parking lot. While I sat in my car I saw a car pull in off the street to the adjoining property that had a dumpster in their parking lot. The guy opened his trunk, pulled out a bag of garbage, chucked it into the dumpster and drove off! I am sure this happens a lot when people can throw stuff in public trash cans, gas stations, public ball fields, businesses with trash cans out side the front door.

I mean, I guess I don't see much of a problem here.  People who are littering bother me.  People using dumpsters to dump their stuff?  Meh, there are a lot of other things that shock me.

SKL-HOU

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #121 on: May 03, 2019, 07:22:29 PM »
For some reason, it is customary to take advantage of the "house" when you're gambling in a casino. Sometimes they will overpay you on a win, or make another mistake in your favor (such as incorrectly paying you when you really have lost). NEVER do you tell the dealer, "Wait a minute, you made a mistake -- you should not have paid me." Instead you quietly and quickly rake in the money, because once you've taken it the casino is no longer allowed to correct their mistake. This is the customary and expected behavior, and I've never felt any qualms about taking advantage of these situations when they happen. I just don't know why this is the case in casino gambling, other than it is obviously set up from the onset as a "you vs. them" situation. Any other business I would (and do) point out any mistake that is in my favor, as I would in a friendly poker game.

It is not customary for honest people. I worked as a dealer and have never heard that it is expected behavior. I also play and i always point it out if a mistake is made. Just because the casino makes a ton of money doesnít make it okay to be dishonest.

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #122 on: May 03, 2019, 07:55:37 PM »
My spouse used to work for the school system in their maintenance department. He observed his co workers and teachers bringing bags of garbage every day to throw in the school dumpsters! I also have a neighbor who I have never seen them put out garbage cans for pick up in about 25 years. They both have jobs that they have access to dumpsters. I always wonder if they take their garbage to work.

One day I was downtown at an attorney's parking lot. While I sat in my car I saw a car pull in off the street to the adjoining property that had a dumpster in their parking lot. The guy opened his trunk, pulled out a bag of garbage, chucked it into the dumpster and drove off! I am sure this happens a lot when people can throw stuff in public trash cans, gas stations, public ball fields, businesses with trash cans out side the front door.

Why is this unethical? It just seems kind of inconvenient for the person doing it.

I must be missing something.

To the extent that there is extra space when the dumpster is picked up, itís fine.  But dumpsters cost money and bigger ones are more expensive.  So if the school or business ever has to upgrade their service, or selects a service level based on inflated fullness from moochers, thatís unethical no?

Some bins don't get dumped until they're full. In that case every bag would have a cost.

For rental roll off dumpsters I believe there's also a fee based on weight. Not sure if this is common for dumpsters used by a business.

dragoncar

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #123 on: May 04, 2019, 01:20:49 AM »
My spouse used to work for the school system in their maintenance department. He observed his co workers and teachers bringing bags of garbage every day to throw in the school dumpsters! I also have a neighbor who I have never seen them put out garbage cans for pick up in about 25 years. They both have jobs that they have access to dumpsters. I always wonder if they take their garbage to work.

One day I was downtown at an attorney's parking lot. While I sat in my car I saw a car pull in off the street to the adjoining property that had a dumpster in their parking lot. The guy opened his trunk, pulled out a bag of garbage, chucked it into the dumpster and drove off! I am sure this happens a lot when people can throw stuff in public trash cans, gas stations, public ball fields, businesses with trash cans out side the front door.

Why is this unethical? It just seems kind of inconvenient for the person doing it.

I must be missing something.

To the extent that there is extra space when the dumpster is picked up, itís fine.  But dumpsters cost money and bigger ones are more expensive.  So if the school or business ever has to upgrade their service, or selects a service level based on inflated fullness from moochers, thatís unethical no?

Some bins don't get dumped until they're full. In that case every bag would have a cost.

For rental roll off dumpsters I believe there's also a fee based on weight. Not sure if this is common for dumpsters used by a business.

GOOD point

Roadrunner53

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #124 on: May 04, 2019, 04:58:36 AM »
My spouse used to work for the school system in their maintenance department. He observed his co workers and teachers bringing bags of garbage every day to throw in the school dumpsters! I also have a neighbor who I have never seen them put out garbage cans for pick up in about 25 years. They both have jobs that they have access to dumpsters. I always wonder if they take their garbage to work.

One day I was downtown at an attorney's parking lot. While I sat in my car I saw a car pull in off the street to the adjoining property that had a dumpster in their parking lot. The guy opened his trunk, pulled out a bag of garbage, chucked it into the dumpster and drove off! I am sure this happens a lot when people can throw stuff in public trash cans, gas stations, public ball fields, businesses with trash cans out side the front door.

Why is this unethical? It just seems kind of inconvenient for the person doing it.

I must be missing something.

Yes, unethical. First of all we the tax payers are paying for garbage removal from these schools. School garbage, not personal garbage from every worker in the school system. It is not a perk in anyone's contract. I pay over $450 a year for my garbage to be removed. If every household were to bring their garbage to the schools and dump their garbage they would have to bring hundreds of dumpsters per day to the schools.

Case

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #125 on: May 04, 2019, 06:34:28 AM »
2) Free drinks - A friend of mine will ask the person in the drive through (after paying for food) if he can have a free softdrink.  I've been with him several times for this and he has never been turned down.


This is not unethical - if you and they give its ok, if he went in and said he ordered and paid for it but didn't get it, then that would be unethical.

yes, it is.  In some situations You are pressuring a low wage worker to risk their job.  Not only is it unethical (once you realize it), it is more unethical than the guyís friend realizes

4) Abusing Costco's return policy - If you dont think this happens, go to costco the day after the super bowl and see how many TV's and grills are being returned.. it's crazy

I am mixed on this one - on one hand I agree but on the other if it is their policy then not so sure - but would defenitely fall into the cheap ass d-bag category. 

5) Working the system for unemployment or welfare (when i say working the system I mean trying to get fired in a way that allows you to collect, not legitimately collecting when laid-off)

I would add disability to this, which is probably a far greater issue and easier to pull off "OHHHH my BACK"


Any other examples you can think of?

One of the biggest financially is those people that stop paying their mortgage and taxes yet continue to live in the house for many many months - this should be illegal.

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #126 on: May 04, 2019, 10:17:49 AM »
I'm not sure if this counts as an unethical way since I didn't do it intentionally but when I was attending grad school in California at a state school, I wasn't considered an in-state student.  I thought I was gonna be a TA the first semester and had told the registrar that and ended up being charged in-state tuition that first semester.  Then later my department told me that I wasn't gonna be a TA (this was purely a miscommunication) and then in further conversations with the Registrar, this was brought up and they charged me the out of state tuition the next semester (which was about 2 times the in-state tuition.)  However, I was able to petition to pay in-state tuition after my first year there (2-3 semesters later.)

My school never asked me to make up for erroneously paying in-state tuition the first semester there, and I had already graduated over a decade ago.

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #127 on: May 04, 2019, 10:18:45 AM »
THis is interesting.  I guess I see so many levels of "ethical" or at least the ways its being used here, that its hard for me to even apply that term straight forward (except for the extremes that are so obviously unethical). 

The free drink one I just think of as being cheap and not cool, and just barely so, just a gut feeling and not sure why (I'm the first to ask to get a good taste of a beer or three at a bar I haven't had before before ordering one so I really don't know why...)

The using a public dumpster one I think of as knowing you're doing something wrong but one where there the harm is small and usually so much so to have zero effect...which I admit are interesting to compare to those actions where your intent is not there but there is a chance of much greater harm.

When I owned a business and had a project that was so incredibly profitable I would reward my employees (or at least the ones who excelled on it) with unexpected large bonuses.  I do realize it was good business (and the fact that over 10 years not a single person ever quit I think it was effective) but for the projects that were incredibly successful I would have felt it "wrong" to not give a bonus.

To have a meal with average food and average service and not tip I would feel horrible doing..I wouldn't call it unethical

I had some business expenses that my accountant brought up once that seemed a stretch to me, so I didn't take them but if I did I'm not sure I'd think of that as "unethical", I guess maybe I see that as a very strong term.

But its hard to figure out where to apply "ethical" labels.

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #128 on: May 04, 2019, 10:46:52 AM »
The dumpster situation is all about weight and volume being taken by someone who's not paying for it. I owned a trash service for a while and I always kept a vigilant eye out for unpaying neighbors trying to put their trash with their neighbors who were paying for my service. Every pound of trash cost me money to dump at the landfill and extra room taken up in my packer truck cost me extra in fuel and time.

LG89

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #129 on: May 04, 2019, 02:33:49 PM »
How about shopping at places that you know treat their workers unfairly? Or buying items that were made with sweat shop labour? If you wouldn't work for some place that would do that to you, would you take advantage when it is done to someone else? Is that unethical, strictly speaking, or is that morality?

One of my beefs about this community (really my only beef) is that many of us enjoy a mustachian lifestyle on the backs of others and then pat our own backs for doing the right thing (by being anti-consumerist). I sense a contradiction. 

You might find that controversial. Have at it.

Agreed 100%.

pudding

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #130 on: May 05, 2019, 01:05:56 PM »
When I was bricklayer back in England in the 1980's we got paid per thousand bricks we laid, piece work or price work as it was known.

3 occasions I can think of where people got money for nothing.

1. The guy who measured up how many bricks we'd laid at the end of the week on a big jobsite (quantity surveyor)  asked my work partner to build his mom a garden wall at her house, in return he said he'd add/fake that my work partner had laid several more thousand bricks than he really had on the big jobsite. Thereby having the company pay for the construction of his mom's wall.

2. The same work partner of mine, he was about 55 when I was about 27. We were working on a big hospital job and the regular quantity surveyor was off on holidays. So a younger guy was sent to measure up the bricks we'd laid.

So my work partner walked him around the job site making small talk and showing him this wall and that wall that we'd built. At one point he even had his arm over the young guys shoulder and telling him stories of old.... when he'd got the guy a bit confused he walked him up the building site, then walked him down a corridor to measure the backside of a big wall that the surveyor had already measured the other side of!  Thereby measuring it twice!! $$ and we got away with it.

3. Me and the same work partner working on a new school in a posh area of Leeds. The truck that delivered mortar wasn't allowed to enter until 9am due to people at a private school nearby complaining. But we were all on the job at 8am and couldn't lay bricks until the truck arrived.
We complained but didn't seem much we could do except get ready for when the truck arrived.
But I found out after I left there that the bricklaying contractor who we worked for had been getting paid for that hour x 5 days a week x around 20 men, but he'd pocketed the money for himself.
The bricklaying contractor had been in jail not that long ago and his son had run the business while he was inside. Hid son was the 'dope dealer' on site and a hardman, but he got beat up by another guy that was harder than him.

A funny side note is that when we left the job that my partner had been paid to build the surveyors mums garden wall.  My partner didn't want to tell the surveyor who he knew well, that we were leaving for a more lucrative contract, so he insisted that we tell this story... The story went that my partners wife had breast cancer and my partner needed to take time off to be with her, and I was to say that I was going to work closer to home (about 40 miles away) on my own and say goodbye to my partner. (these kind of loose 2 man partnerships being common for bricklayers)

But in reality we met up on the new jobsite on the Monday following that Friday.  But when I received my last cheque in the mail from the 'bent' surveyor who we'd just left and lied to, I'd been ripped off!  So I asked my partner if he had been ripped off to?  No, he hadn't !!!

So the surveyor wouldn't pay me right and had no idea that me and partner were still working together due to his wife being in perfect health... so I went to see him on the job in the office hut, a small argument broke out between me and him in front of his colleagues, and of course he had no idea that me and partner were still working together and that i knew just what partner had been paid.

So I just looked at the surveyor and said loudly "Garden Walls"   the look on his face was priceless!!!   and I left... my cheque for the correct amount followed within a few days.

That was just in about a 12 month period.

All I wanted to do was go to work and get paid for what I'd done really, but ended up in this sort of 'lock stock and 2 smoking barrels' film.

BTDretire

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #131 on: May 05, 2019, 03:07:40 PM »
2) Free drinks - A friend of mine will ask the person in the drive through (after paying for food) if he can have a free softdrink.  I've been with him several times for this and he has never been turned down.
This is not unethical - if you and they give its ok, if he went in and said he ordered and paid for it but didn't get it, then that would be unethical.

 Ya, there is a problem here, the employee is giving away the owners stock.
With out giving too much detail, when I saw the shrimp boats come in, it was not unusual for the crew to sell some of the catch, before the owner was there to see it happen. Also, I watched deck hands unloading several thousands of pounds of fish from the boat to the dock, a few would slip over the edge into the water, and after everyone left the deckhand would take a dive and pull up a couple hundred dollars of fish that he dropped overboard.
 My boat was docked near the unloading dock. I saw a lot.

dragoncar

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #132 on: May 05, 2019, 04:33:27 PM »
2) Free drinks - A friend of mine will ask the person in the drive through (after paying for food) if he can have a free softdrink.  I've been with him several times for this and he has never been turned down.
This is not unethical - if you and they give its ok, if he went in and said he ordered and paid for it but didn't get it, then that would be unethical.

 Ya, there is a problem here, the employee is giving away the owners stock.
With out giving too much detail, when I saw the shrimp boats come in, it was not unusual for the crew to sell some of the catch, before the owner was there to see it happen. Also, I watched deck hands unloading several thousands of pounds of fish from the boat to the dock, a few would slip over the edge into the water, and after everyone left the deckhand would take a dive and pull up a couple hundred dollars of fish that he dropped overboard.
 My boat was docked near the unloading dock. I saw a lot.

But eww, who would want fish that had fallen in the sea?  Gross

Barbaebigode

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #133 on: May 06, 2019, 08:10:01 AM »
Once I took a low interest loan from a federal state bank and bought higher interest federal bonds with it. Not my proudest moment.

flipboard

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #134 on: May 06, 2019, 10:39:14 AM »
    3.  Getting all your printing needs and random office supplies from work.
    4.  Getting stuff done for your personal life at work.  As an hourly?  As salary?  While still getting your requirements done?  While not?
Given that many employees (at least in some industries) will end up sometimes using their home internet and home electricity for work purposes, and given that many people end up doing small bits of work during their evenings and/or weekends, I have a hard time seeing those as unethical. (Different for hourly workers if you actually get to bill all the hours worked - but even then there should be some allowances for breaks etc.)

dragoncar

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #135 on: May 06, 2019, 11:13:44 AM »
    3.  Getting all your printing needs and random office supplies from work.
    4.  Getting stuff done for your personal life at work.  As an hourly?  As salary?  While still getting your requirements done?  While not?
Given that many employees (at least in some industries) will end up sometimes using their home internet and home electricity for work purposes, and given that many people end up doing small bits of work during their evenings and/or weekends, I have a hard time seeing those as unethical. (Different for hourly workers if you actually get to bill all the hours worked - but even then there should be some allowances for breaks etc.)

Interesting question on the ethics of work.  Is it unethical not to put in 100% effort all the time at work? 

GuitarStv

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #136 on: May 06, 2019, 11:23:11 AM »
    3.  Getting all your printing needs and random office supplies from work.
    4.  Getting stuff done for your personal life at work.  As an hourly?  As salary?  While still getting your requirements done?  While not?
Given that many employees (at least in some industries) will end up sometimes using their home internet and home electricity for work purposes, and given that many people end up doing small bits of work during their evenings and/or weekends, I have a hard time seeing those as unethical. (Different for hourly workers if you actually get to bill all the hours worked - but even then there should be some allowances for breaks etc.)

Interesting question on the ethics of work.  Is it unethical not to put in 100% effort all the time at work?

Yes.  But only as unethical as paying an employee less than 100% of what they're worth to the company . . . so I think it's a wash.

dragoncar

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #137 on: May 06, 2019, 11:33:42 AM »
    3.  Getting all your printing needs and random office supplies from work.
    4.  Getting stuff done for your personal life at work.  As an hourly?  As salary?  While still getting your requirements done?  While not?
Given that many employees (at least in some industries) will end up sometimes using their home internet and home electricity for work purposes, and given that many people end up doing small bits of work during their evenings and/or weekends, I have a hard time seeing those as unethical. (Different for hourly workers if you actually get to bill all the hours worked - but even then there should be some allowances for breaks etc.)

Interesting question on the ethics of work.  Is it unethical not to put in 100% effort all the time at work?

Yes.  But only as unethical as paying an employee less than 100% of what they're worth to the company . . . so I think it's a wash.

So really, no.  IMO both are subject to the terms of the employment agreement and I donít know of any agreements that require a level of performance as a percentage of the employees potential.  Maybe like in the old days of typists they would test your typing speed and then require that you consistently meet 90% of that.  Going the other way, there are potential employment contracts where you get a percent of the earnings. 

ericrugiero

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #138 on: May 06, 2019, 12:14:39 PM »
My guilt comes from books. I've got a Kindle. So I can pirate e-books. My logic is that I'd pretty much never pay for a book anyway. Between libraries and used book stores(which the author's and publishing companies see no money from) I don't feel like my breaking copyright law in this case hurts anyone very much. It's obviously still illegal and a moral grey area, but I'm ok with it. People speed every day and that hurts people more in my opinion.

Easy fix for that-get a library card. Most libraries have e-books available now! Sure, there's a waitlist for the more popular titles, but I get nearly all my Kindle books from the library. Once you download it, turn off the wifi and you get to enjoy the book for as long as it takes you to read it. It doesn't prevent the next person who wants to check it out on their Kindle, either.

I had no idea you could get ebooks from a library!
How does that work?Can the library only lend X number of copies? Do I have to physically go into the library or do they usually do it through their website or something?
This is pretty cool. Thanks for the heads up.

@unitsinc

You are allowed to join libraries in most cases as long as you live in the same state.  I joined the Cleveland library even though I live 3-4 hours away and have never visited the library.  They have a much better selection of ebooks than my local small town library.  The Libby app is very nice.  You can check out library books and read them on your phone or send them to a kindle.  It also supports books on tape which is nice when driving.  Download at home and listen as you drive. 

Note:  Checking out ebooks from a library is not unethical but if you read on a kindle they stay there even after they expire if you put it in airplane mode.  Once they expire and you connect your kindle they will be gone.  Reading after they are "returned" might be unethical....
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 12:18:12 PM by ericrugiero »

MilesTeg

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #139 on: May 06, 2019, 01:19:21 PM »
Jail breaking your phone is not at all unethical. Manufacturers trying to prevent you from having full access to your purchased device is the unethical action (and should be illegal).

Imagine cars sold that could not leave approved roadways without being first 'jailbroken'.

mathlete

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #140 on: May 06, 2019, 01:26:16 PM »
Thanks everyone for the explanation on the dumpster thing.

In my city, you pay for trash pickup whether your use it or not so I couldn't really wrap my head around it.

mathlete

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #141 on: May 06, 2019, 01:27:45 PM »
Jail breaking your phone is not at all unethical. Manufacturers trying to prevent you from having full access to your purchased device is the unethical action (and should be illegal).

Sure. As long as you're not jailbreaking to steal apps I guess.

GuitarStv

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #142 on: May 06, 2019, 01:45:52 PM »
Jail breaking your phone is not at all unethical. Manufacturers trying to prevent you from having full access to your purchased device is the unethical action (and should be illegal).

Sure. As long as you're not jailbreaking to steal apps I guess.

The jailbreaking would still be perfectly ethical.  It's the piracy that would be the problem in that case.

mathlete

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #143 on: May 06, 2019, 02:11:27 PM »
The jailbreaking would still be perfectly ethical.  It's the piracy that would be the problem in that case.

Sure. I guess I was making a logical leap because I'm not sure how jailbreaking saves you money otherwise.

GuitarStv

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #144 on: May 06, 2019, 02:17:24 PM »
The jailbreaking would still be perfectly ethical.  It's the piracy that would be the problem in that case.

Sure. I guess I was making a logical leap because I'm not sure how jailbreaking saves you money otherwise.

It used to be pretty common for phone carriers to sell phones that wouldn't work on other carrier networks without jailbreaking.  Is that not the case any more?

Roadrunner53

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #145 on: May 06, 2019, 02:19:40 PM »
Thanks everyone for the explanation on the dumpster thing.

In my city, you pay for trash pickup whether your use it or not so I couldn't really wrap my head around it.


I am not sure how our school system works their garbage contract but I have rented dumpsters in the past to clear out junk from my home. When you rent it they allow a specific weight like 2 tons. If you manage to get more into the dumpster they weigh it when they bring it back to the facility and charge you per pound what you have exceeded on your contract. So if the school system should have that type of contract, then the town would have to pay extra money to pay for excess weight.

bluebelle

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #146 on: May 06, 2019, 03:25:00 PM »
I don't think this is unethical, so if  you think it is, explain it to me.....
I ordered 2 pairs of pants for DH a month ago when they were 15% off (they're an 'every day item', so they usually don't go on sale for any less - at least I didn't remember them ever being cheaper).
They were on sale this weekend for even less, so I ordered two more pair, with the intent of returning them using the first, higher priced receipt (I have 90 days to return).
Seconds after hitting checkout.....I realize they've sent me a promo code for an additional 15% off that I forgot to add.   They have a very stupid on-line system that won't let you cancel an order once submitted, so I order a third set of two pair.  Nor will they do a price adjustment for an on-line purchase.
I'm returning 4 pairs of pants, and it will save me an additional 30% off the original sale price, or more that $28 of after tax dollars.  In my tax bracket, that's certainly worth a 30 minute effort to return them.

BTDretire

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #147 on: May 06, 2019, 05:20:14 PM »
Let me light this place up,
 A financially independent person taking a healthcare subsidy from hardworking taxpayers.

BTDretire

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #148 on: May 07, 2019, 06:54:11 AM »
2) Free drinks - A friend of mine will ask the person in the drive through (after paying for food) if he can have a free softdrink.  I've been with him several times for this and he has never been turned down.
This is not unethical - if you and they give its ok, if he went in and said he ordered and paid for it but didn't get it, then that would be unethical.

 Ya, there is a problem here, the employee is giving away the owners stock.
With out giving too much detail, when I saw the shrimp boats come in, it was not unusual for the crew to sell some of the catch, before the owner was there to see it happen. Also, I watched deck hands unloading several thousands of pounds of fish from the boat to the dock, a few would slip over the edge into the water, and after everyone left the deckhand would take a dive and pull up a couple hundred dollars of fish that he dropped overboard.
 My boat was docked near the unloading dock. I saw a lot.

But eww, who would want fish that had fallen in the sea?  Gross

 Was the lack of any emoji, smiley face, /s/,  because what you said is what you meant?
How about this.
 Would you want a fish that was caught, spent a week on ice in the boat, picked up, weighed  and trucked to the
the warehouse, deiced and weighed again, a couple days later it is put on another truck, driven 2 days to New York, unloaded at another warehouse, deiced and weighed again, put on another truck and distributed to a store where is sets in the display for 2 more days before being bought.
  The fish has been on ice for two weeks before you even get it. You can only hope the low level employees have done a good job of keeping
it on ice.

ketchup

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Re: Unethical ways to save money
« Reply #149 on: May 07, 2019, 09:18:17 AM »
Let me light this place up,
 A financially independent person taking a healthcare subsidy from hardworking taxpayers.
Do you pay more in taxes than legally required?