Author Topic: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?  (Read 1930 times)

Unionville

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Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« on: February 12, 2024, 09:56:31 AM »
I don't like that I have to pick a party before I have the right to vote.  I think all ballots should be the same with ranked choice voting, but since they aren't: What will I lose by not registering for a major party?  I know that in presidential primaries I won't be able to vote for major Dem or Rep candidates, but what else do I lose?  Aren't all the ballots the same in November?  I live in CA in case that matters.

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2024, 10:04:00 AM »
In TX you don't declare a party.  In states where you declare it only matters with respect to primary voting.  TX has "open" primaries and you can vote in either but not both. I tend to vote in GOP primary as there are more candidates on ballot and usually only one per race on DEM primary.  Then vote for DEM in general having chosen as my second choice the lesser of evils.

Oh, I suppose it matters if you want to be involved in party politics or run for an office where parties are declared.  Many times, local races like water board and school board are non partisan.

FINate

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2024, 10:13:19 AM »
Here's a good summary of the rules in CA: https://calmatters.org/politics/elections/2024/02/california-primary-election-voter-questions/

The Republican Party runs a close presidential primary, which means only registered Republicans can participate in their process. The fear, valid or not, is lots of Democrats (because they are such a large majority) mucking around with the Republican primary to either shift the vote to someone unelectable, or perhaps a RINO.

seattlecyclone

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2024, 10:15:57 AM »
This depends on your state of residence. Some states ask you to declare a party preference on the registration forms, others don't. All the ballots are the same in November, yes. States will often give different ballots for all partisan primaries, not just the presidential ones.

FINate

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2024, 10:22:29 AM »
I should add: Presidential primaries are really a way to engage the internal process of a political party, very different from a vote for public office. The rules for how primary votes translate to delegates, and the way these delegates vote (along with super-delegates) are a function of party rules. https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/us-presidential-nominating-process

Unionville

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2024, 10:42:01 AM »
The Republican Party runs a close presidential primary, which means only registered Republicans can participate in their process. The fear, valid or not, is lots of Democrats (because they are such a large majority) mucking around with the Republican primary to either shift the vote to someone unelectable.

Curious - then what stops a democrat from registering as a republican just to 'muck around' with GOP primary?

FINate

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2024, 10:47:11 AM »
The Republican Party runs a close presidential primary, which means only registered Republicans can participate in their process. The fear, valid or not, is lots of Democrats (because they are such a large majority) mucking around with the Republican primary to either shift the vote to someone unelectable.

Curious - then what stops a democrat from registering as a republican just to 'muck around' with GOP primary?

Some do. But this requires filling out some paperwork N days before the primary, and then being okay with being a registered Republican. Not worth it for most people.

jim555

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2024, 10:54:13 AM »
NY Feb 14th deadline to register in a party to be able to vote in the primary for that party.

Log

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2024, 10:56:30 AM »
The parties are private institutions, and unless the state proactively regulates how they run their primaries, they can run them how they want.

Primaries are arguably the most consequential elections since they determine what ideological direction the parties move in, so if you’re unhappy with the parties, the best thing you can do is register with one and get involved in supporting primary candidates you find less objectionable.

nereo

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2024, 11:09:46 AM »
I don't like that I have to pick a party before I have the right to vote.
understandable, but there are reasons behind the restrictions.  Unlike in the general election the process of selecting a party's nominee is an internal affair.  To limit a "hostile takeover" (people who are not "true" members of the party selecting a weaker candidate) many states restrict voting in primaries to only the people who declare themselves to be a part of the party.  It's a pretty low bar - and easily changed.

I think all ballots should be the same with ranked choice voting
I live in a state with ranked-choice voting. It's wonderful! I strongly support all states switching to ranked choice.

What will I lose by not registering for a major party?  I know that in presidential primaries I won't be able to vote for major Dem or Rep candidates, but what else do I lose? 
From a practical standpoint and being from CA you will loose basically nothing (at least this election cycle). The Dems and GOP have all but locked in their nominee with all the credible challengers gone from the race (assuming Haley drops out, which I imagine will be the case in the next two weeks).  Sorry, but them's the rules.  In some future election (2028 perhaps?) there might be a competitive primary and your vote might matter for one or the other party.


Aren't all the ballots the same in November? 
They are similar, but not the same.  States have a good deal of control over how federal elections are administered, including the layout of the ballot, use of absentee ballots, and vote tally equipment. Each state can set thresholds for being included on the ballot, and many so-called "third party Candidates" do not appear on every State's ballot.  Each district will only have the congressional candidates for that district

Glenstache

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2024, 11:11:06 AM »
The parties are private institutions, and unless the state proactively regulates how they run their primaries, they can run them how they want.

Primaries are arguably the most consequential elections since they determine what ideological direction the parties move in, so if you’re unhappy with the parties, the best thing you can do is register with one and get involved in supporting primary candidates you find less objectionable.
If voters are forced to be a part of a party to vote in the primary, then the general public should not be funding the mechanations of a private enterprise. A requirement for public funding of elections should include a provision that you are not siloed into a single party IMHO. What if you prefer the R candidate for dog catcher, but the D candidate for coroner, and the I candidate for trash commissioner?

PKFFW

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2024, 02:15:54 PM »
If voters are forced to be a part of a party to vote in the primary, then the general public should not be funding the mechanations of a private enterprise. A requirement for public funding of elections should include a provision that you are not siloed into a single party IMHO. What if you prefer the R candidate for dog catcher, but the D candidate for coroner, and the I candidate for trash commissioner?
I find it bizarre that such positions are elected rather than having a selection panel interview candidates and select the most qualified/experienced/"best person" for the position. Different strokes for different folks as they say.

Chris Pascale

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2024, 02:26:07 PM »
This is a grievance of mine with being a New Yorker. If you want to vote in a primary you need to be in that party.

In North Carolina, the primary day was for all parties, and any voter could vote for any candidate. In 2008 my wife walked into the ballot box all set to vote for Hillary Clinton, and when she came out she had this bewildered look on her face.

"What's wrong?" I asked.

"I voted for Ron Paul," she said.

We had a good laugh over it.

ETA: I'm currently a registered Dem from running as a Yang delegate in 2020. Had there been any hope of a Repub primary coming to NY, I'd have re-registered. Honestly, it's pretty annoying.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2024, 02:28:18 PM by Chris Pascale »

RetiredAt63

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2024, 04:10:59 PM »
The parties are private institutions, and unless the state proactively regulates how they run their primaries, they can run them how they want.

Primaries are arguably the most consequential elections since they determine what ideological direction the parties move in, so if you’re unhappy with the parties, the best thing you can do is register with one and get involved in supporting primary candidates you find less objectionable.
If voters are forced to be a part of a party to vote in the primary, then the general public should not be funding the mechanations of a private enterprise.

This is what struck me as so odd in the discussion.  Why are the parties not doing this on their own?  Seriously.  Why are people OK with their tax money going for this?  It has to have some cost.  And, doesn't that violate the secrecy/privacy of the ballot? 

Here the Parliamentary system makes it mostly irrelevant to join a party unless you really want to.  And then it is a private joining.  I did that once, provincially, when  I was really concerned about who was going to be the Liberal candidate in my riding.  Lots of people were concerned, we joined, we voted, got the candidate we wanted, who went on to win the riding in the election.  I am sure most of us let our memberships lapse after that.

But nowhere in that was the provincial government involved.



 

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2024, 05:40:19 PM »
My preferred mechanism would be ranked choice voting in the primary with no party affiliation required. Choose your top 3 and let the cards fall where they may. It is worth noting that this would have prevented Trump in 2016 R primaries. Trump was successful because the "reasonable voter" votes were spread thin amongst all of the other candidates. Trump was winning primaries with like 12% of ballots for him. It also would have prevented spoiler effects in prior elections such as with Ross Perot and Ralph Nader. People who liked the third party candidate but had to make a strategic decision to one of the major party candidates would have had the option to cast a vote for them, and had the major party candidate as #2. When the long shot didn't get enough votes, their support would have been noted and then their vote cast as the #2 option. (A Nader voter could have had their ultimate vote go to Gore, or a Perot voter go to Bush). This allows for a more organic growth of new parties as the electorate changes, and prevent spoilers from third parties leading to results that leave a majority unhappy with the result. The processing power to implement that wasn't practical in 1790, but is easily implementable now (and has been shown to work in some portions of the US, just ask Lisa Murkowski).

Unionville

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2024, 06:54:37 PM »
My preferred mechanism would be ranked choice voting in the primary with no party affiliation required. Choose your top 3 and let the cards fall where they may. It is worth noting that this would have prevented Trump in 2016 R primaries. Trump was successful because the "reasonable voter" votes were spread thin amongst all of the other candidates. Trump was winning primaries with like 12% of ballots for him. It also would have prevented spoiler effects in prior elections such as with Ross Perot and Ralph Nader. People who liked the third party candidate but had to make a strategic decision to one of the major party candidates would have had the option to cast a vote for them, and had the major party candidate as #2. When the long shot didn't get enough votes, their support would have been noted and then their vote cast as the #2 option. (A Nader voter could have had their ultimate vote go to Gore, or a Perot voter go to Bush). This allows for a more organic growth of new parties as the electorate changes, and prevent spoilers from third parties leading to results that leave a majority unhappy with the result. The processing power to implement that wasn't practical in 1790, but is easily implementable now (and has been shown to work in some portions of the US, just ask Lisa Murkowski).

This model is a great one.  I completely feel this is the fairest and it doesn't force people into polarizing situations.  If only we could get the leading parties to agree to it - ha. That would be really hard. Mainly because they don't want to play fair.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2024, 09:41:49 PM »
I think all ballots should be the same with ranked choice voting
I live in a state with ranked-choice voting. It's wonderful! I strongly support all states switching to ranked choice.
It looks like two states have switched to using it in Presidential Elections, while five states have banned all use of ranked-choice voting.  I think it needs to be tried out in ever-larger states before it gets considered nationally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked-choice_voting_in_the_United_States

BlueHouse

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2024, 12:55:21 PM »
As others have said, elections and the regulations around them are left up to the state.  States can choose to have open or closed primaries. 

When I first moved to DC, I had been a registered Independent.  I got to my first primary and there was no ballot for me.  The only ballot was for registered democrats.  So I changed my party affiliation on the spot so that I could have a voice.  DC is overwhelmingly blue, so it's not embarrassing at all.  when I help my mom vote, I'm surprised that they ask you at the door if you want a paper version to study before going into the booth and the republican one is red and the democrat one is blue.  I can't imagine it would be easy to vote your conscience in an all-red area. 

And if you want to see how much impact the local election officials have on elections, just look at the effed up ballot from Florida in 2000, which basically handed the election to Bush instead of Gore. 
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/19/bad-ballot-design-2020-democracy-america

 

Raenia

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2024, 08:39:02 AM »
As others have said, elections and the regulations around them are left up to the state.  States can choose to have open or closed primaries. 

When I first moved to DC, I had been a registered Independent.  I got to my first primary and there was no ballot for me.  The only ballot was for registered democrats.  So I changed my party affiliation on the spot so that I could have a voice.  DC is overwhelmingly blue, so it's not embarrassing at all.  when I help my mom vote, I'm surprised that they ask you at the door if you want a paper version to study before going into the booth and the republican one is red and the democrat one is blue.  I can't imagine it would be easy to vote your conscience in an all-red area. 

And if you want to see how much impact the local election officials have on elections, just look at the effed up ballot from Florida in 2000, which basically handed the election to Bush instead of Gore. 
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/19/bad-ballot-design-2020-democracy-america

Where I am both parties are usually outside the polling place handing out fliers showing the party's "preferred" slate. I used to decline both, having written down my choices earlier after using Ballotpedia to review the ballot ahead of time. Before that was available, I used to accept both fliers, which also keeps your preferences a secret.

Of course all that was before I switched to mail-in voting. Thanks PA!

iris lily

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2024, 09:10:28 AM »
I went to our Republican caucus last Saturday and signed a—what amounted to—loyalty oath to the Republican Party (its ideals and etc.) as part of the entry process.

In my state you do not have  to declare party allegiance when registering to vote but you MAY declare it if you wish. Our county clerk was there. She said out of 10,000 registered voters only about 50 have declared a party preference.

I took a perverse satisfaction in thinking about Democrats who crossed party lines on Saturday to caucus for Nikki Haley.
They had to sign that loyalty oath.Would have been hard for them.

Just Joe

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2024, 09:23:15 AM »
The GOP doesn't take their oaths to the nation seriously, why should I take an oath to them seriously? It is just words.

It probably also signs you up for all the GOP fundraising mailing lists too.

We will be at our state's primaries voting for Haley and then at the election voting for Biden.

iris lily

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2024, 09:36:19 AM »
The GOP doesn't take their oaths to the nation seriously, why should I take an oath to them seriously? It is just words.

It probably also signs you up for all the GOP fundraising mailing lists too.

We will be at our state's primaries voting for Haley and then at the election voting for Biden.

Ah well there are many discussions out there on the ethics of crossing party lines in primaries and caucuses.We all have to make our own rationalizations for our behavior. I don’t think this issue is black and white.

The Democrats in my state are not allowing anyone who is a registered Republican to vote in their primary. That is not many people, tho. One could interpret this as the Republicans are more welcoming to those in my county in determining candidates and issues.  :)

I have probably voted for DJ Trump as often as you have. I caucused for Nikki
Haley on Saturday. We non-Trumpies were a small group.


Just Joe

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2024, 10:18:21 AM »
I live in a very red state. Nothing DW and I do is changing diddley.

If this was a blue state we'd likely have a mountain of reasons to vote against the Dems. Parties seem to get too entrenched and quit doing the good work.

In my state the Repubs are focused on eliminating people's safety nets and pushing culture wars stuff. So many other things that need work here.

nereo

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2024, 11:10:02 AM »
I live in a state that has ranked choice voting for all federal elections. It is state law passed by the voters and upheld in in the courts. The upcoming primaries will have a ranked choice ballot.

So imagine my surprise when I learned that the state GOP publicly stated that they will ignore the ranked choice selections entirely and only consider a persons top-selection as their vote.

Dicey

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2024, 11:17:33 AM »
I live in a state that has ranked choice voting for all federal elections. It is state law passed by the voters and upheld in in the courts. The upcoming primaries will have a ranked choice ballot.

So imagine my surprise when I learned that the state GOP publicly stated that they will ignore the ranked choice selections entirely and only consider a persons top-selection as their vote.
Of course they did.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2024, 01:09:07 PM »
I live in a state that has ranked choice voting for all federal elections. It is state law passed by the voters and upheld in in the courts. The upcoming primaries will have a ranked choice ballot.

So imagine my surprise when I learned that the state GOP publicly stated that they will ignore the ranked choice selections entirely and only consider a persons top-selection as their vote.
Of course they did.

That is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

iris lily

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2024, 01:21:15 PM »
I live in a state that has ranked choice voting for all federal elections. It is state law passed by the voters and upheld in in the courts. The upcoming primaries will have a ranked choice ballot.

So imagine my surprise when I learned that the state GOP publicly stated that they will ignore the ranked choice selections entirely and only consider a persons top-selection as their vote.
Of course they did.

That is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

For this Federal election, wouldn’t the result be one and the same anyway? I mean the ranked choice candidate and the top vote getter are the same? I’m having a hard time figuring out how this would play out.

i’m generally in favor of ranked choice voting, since it seems to be a way out of the stronghold of the parties. Andrew Yang is gug ho about it. But I haven’t thought about all the scenarios where it would take place.

Psychstache

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2024, 01:34:06 PM »
I live in a state that has ranked choice voting for all federal elections. It is state law passed by the voters and upheld in in the courts. The upcoming primaries will have a ranked choice ballot.

So imagine my surprise when I learned that the state GOP publicly stated that they will ignore the ranked choice selections entirely and only consider a persons top-selection as their vote.
Of course they did.

That is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

For this Federal election, wouldn’t the result be one and the same anyway? I mean the ranked choice candidate and the top vote getter are the same? I’m having a hard time figuring out how this would play out.

i’m generally in favor of ranked choice voting, since it seems to be a way out of the stronghold of the parties. Andrew Yang is gug ho about it. But I haven’t thought about all the scenarios where it would take place.

Assuming one candidate gets >50% of the vote, there will not be a difference. Otherwise, it would look like this:

RCV: last place would be eliminated and any voters that ranked them as #1 would have their vote moved to their #2 choice. Repeat until there is a majority vote holding candidate.

Traditional: Either the candidate with a plurality is declared the winner, or they schedule a runoff election involving the top X candidates.

So the rules say for people to vote as the former, whereas the party is saying they will treat it like the latter.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2024, 01:36:46 PM by Psychstache »

nereo

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2024, 01:43:27 PM »
I live in a state that has ranked choice voting for all federal elections. It is state law passed by the voters and upheld in in the courts. The upcoming primaries will have a ranked choice ballot.

So imagine my surprise when I learned that the state GOP publicly stated that they will ignore the ranked choice selections entirely and only consider a persons top-selection as their vote.
Of course they did.

That is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

For this Federal election, wouldn’t the result be one and the same anyway? I mean the ranked choice candidate and the top vote getter are the same? I’m having a hard time figuring out how this would play out.

i’m generally in favor of ranked choice voting, since it seems to be a way out of the stronghold of the parties. Andrew Yang is gug ho about it. But I haven’t thought about all the scenarios where it would take place.

This is a relatively new development, but the legal opinions I've heard all seem to question how successful a lawsuit may be in this particular primary because the group filing the lawsuit must show that some harm was caused (i.e. the result would have been different had ranked-choice been followed).  That's going to be a tough case to make as almost everyone agrees that both Biden and Trump will overwhelmingly win their respective primaries.

From a more strategic standpoint, ranked choice voting has already resulted in one election outcome which would have been different had the "traditional" method been in place - the race for Maine's 2nd US congressional district.  No candidate had over 50% of the vote during the first round, and Bruce Poliquin (R) held a very, very  slight edge over Jared Golden (D) - both candidates had about 46% of the total votes cast.  However, that shifted after the candidates with the least votes were removed and ranked choice was taken into account.  Golden won the election and now represents Maine's 2nd district, as he was listed as the 2nd choice of roughly 2/3rds of the ballots that were cast for a 3rd party candidate.

In this particular primary, the most recent poll has Trump at ~77% to Haley's 19%.   

bacchi

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2024, 02:08:52 PM »
From a more strategic standpoint, ranked choice voting has already resulted in one election outcome which would have been different had the "traditional" method been in place - the race for Maine's 2nd US congressional district.

It also affected the 2022 Senate election in Alaska. Palin (R) received the plurality of the first round votes but, after dropping the laggards, Peltola (D) came out on top.

Psychstache

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2024, 02:24:20 PM »
From a more strategic standpoint, ranked choice voting has already resulted in one election outcome which would have been different had the "traditional" method been in place - the race for Maine's 2nd US congressional district.

It also affected the 2022 Senate election in Alaska. Palin (R) received the plurality of the first round votes but, after dropping the laggards, Peltola (D) came out on top.

Not according to Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Alaska%27s_at-large_congressional_district_special_election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_House_of_Representatives_election_in_Alaska

The totals on these pages show Peltola leading the vote in every round of the special election and the general election back in 22.

Edited to Add clarification: Sarah Palin was the top vote getter in the Special Election Blanket Primary, where the top 4 vote getters proceeded to the actual special election. The top 4 were, in order: Palin (27%), Nick Begich (R) (19%), Al Gross (I) (12%), and Peltola (10%). So Peltola did go from just making the cutoff in the primary to winning the election, but she did not trail in the Instant Runoff voting portion of either race (she also was the top vote getter in the blanket primary for the Nov 22 regular election).
« Last Edit: March 04, 2024, 02:33:58 PM by Psychstache »

bacchi

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2024, 09:19:14 AM »
From a more strategic standpoint, ranked choice voting has already resulted in one election outcome which would have been different had the "traditional" method been in place - the race for Maine's 2nd US congressional district.

It also affected the 2022 Senate election in Alaska. Palin (R) received the plurality of the first round votes but, after dropping the laggards, Peltola (D) came out on top.

Not according to Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Alaska%27s_at-large_congressional_district_special_election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_House_of_Representatives_election_in_Alaska

The totals on these pages show Peltola leading the vote in every round of the special election and the general election back in 22.

Edited to Add clarification: Sarah Palin was the top vote getter in the Special Election Blanket Primary, where the top 4 vote getters proceeded to the actual special election. The top 4 were, in order: Palin (27%), Nick Begich (R) (19%), Al Gross (I) (12%), and Peltola (10%). So Peltola did go from just making the cutoff in the primary to winning the election, but she did not trail in the Instant Runoff voting portion of either race (she also was the top vote getter in the blanket primary for the Nov 22 regular election).

Oops, that's what I get for trusting a secondary source that wasn't specific enough. My bad and thanks for the correction.

Just Joe

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2024, 10:09:52 AM »
I live in a state that has ranked choice voting for all federal elections. It is state law passed by the voters and upheld in in the courts. The upcoming primaries will have a ranked choice ballot.

So imagine my surprise when I learned that the state GOP publicly stated that they will ignore the ranked choice selections entirely and only consider a persons top-selection as their vote.
Of course they did.
Our state passed a law forbidding ranked choice voting in any election. Naturally this is a very red state. Always enjoyed living here, less enthusiastic lately due to the politics.

The GOP will do anything and everything to prevent voters from having real choices and their voices heard.

nereo

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2024, 10:18:54 AM »
I live in a state that has ranked choice voting for all federal elections. It is state law passed by the voters and upheld in in the courts. The upcoming primaries will have a ranked choice ballot.

So imagine my surprise when I learned that the state GOP publicly stated that they will ignore the ranked choice selections entirely and only consider a persons top-selection as their vote.
Of course they did.
Our state passed a law forbidding ranked choice voting in any election. Naturally this is a very red state. Always enjoyed living here, less enthusiastic lately due to the politics.

The GOP will do anything and everything to prevent voters from having real choices and their voices heard.

Laws to ban ranked choice voting seem very near-sighted to me. It's not hard to envision scenarios where a populist 3rd-party candidate would skew an otherwise cake-walk of an election from the GOP to a Dem. It's even more useful to keep out firebrands that might have the support of 20-30% in an open primary but are disdained by the majority.

The bottom line is that ranked choice voting:
  • changes nothing whenever there's a candidate who garners >50% of the vote
  • selects the candidate the majority can agree upon when there are 3+ candidates


Just Joe

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2024, 07:31:18 PM »
The GOP doesn't take their oaths to the nation seriously, why should I take an oath to them seriously? It is just words.

It probably also signs you up for all the GOP fundraising mailing lists too.

We will be at our state's primaries voting for Haley and then at the election voting for Biden.

Ultimately did vote Republican in the primaries. Voted for Nikki Haley. Will vote for Biden in the election. To me this is DIY ranked choice voting. 

N.H. is probably the least outrageous of the the Republican candidates in my mind that even comes close to having a chance. And the GOP would benefit from having a woman as President for a term or two. Hell, our nation as a whole would benefit from having a woman as President IMHO.

Less enthusiastic about the possible Republican baggage (personnel) that could follow her into office as part of the team but far less worried about her team than Donald's. 

Edited for wording.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2024, 07:33:39 PM by Just Joe »

iris lily

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2024, 01:02:20 PM »
As others have said, elections and the regulations around them are left up to the state.  States can choose to have open or closed primaries. 

When I first moved to DC, I had been a registered Independent.  I got to my first primary and there was no ballot for me.  The only ballot was for registered democrats.  So I changed my party affiliation on the spot so that I could have a voice.  DC is overwhelmingly blue, so it's not embarrassing at all.  when I help my mom vote, I'm surprised that they ask you at the door if you want a paper version to study before going into the booth and the republican one is red and the democrat one is blue.  I can't imagine it would be easy to vote your conscience in an all-red area. 

And if you want to see how much impact the local election officials have on elections, just look at the effed up ballot from Florida in 2000, which basically handed the election to Bush instead of Gore. 
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/19/bad-ballot-design-2020-democracy-america

I wouldn’t characterize the Bush-Gore election as Florida handing it to Bush.. I remember days and days of a cliff hanger counting hanging chads. It was not an easy win for GW.

MoseyingAlong

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2024, 11:06:53 PM »
..... when I help my mom vote, I'm surprised that they ask you at the door if you want a paper version to study before going into the booth and the republican one is red and the democrat one is blue.  I can't imagine it would be easy to vote your conscience in an all-red area. 
.......

This feeling isn't exclusive to all-red areas. Living in a deep blue area 20 years ago, even hinting that you were thinking of voting for a reddish candidate or proposition resulted in being treated as a pariah. And heaven forbid, anyone see the blizzard of mailers that showed up in your mailbox. Better hope nothing was misdelivered to your neighbor. But to your point, at least you weren't labelled with a scarlet R at the voting booth.

I much prefer where I live now. We may have loony-tunes on both sides but sometimes we can actually have real discussions about opposing views. It's been a relief.

sonofsven

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2024, 05:23:23 AM »
As others have said, elections and the regulations around them are left up to the state.  States can choose to have open or closed primaries. 

When I first moved to DC, I had been a registered Independent.  I got to my first primary and there was no ballot for me.  The only ballot was for registered democrats.  So I changed my party affiliation on the spot so that I could have a voice.  DC is overwhelmingly blue, so it's not embarrassing at all.  when I help my mom vote, I'm surprised that they ask you at the door if you want a paper version to study before going into the booth and the republican one is red and the democrat one is blue.  I can't imagine it would be easy to vote your conscience in an all-red area. 

And if you want to see how much impact the local election officials have on elections, just look at the effed up ballot from Florida in 2000, which basically handed the election to Bush instead of Gore. 
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/19/bad-ballot-design-2020-democracy-america

I wouldn’t characterize the Bush-Gore election as Florida handing it to Bush.. I remember days and days of a cliff hanger counting hanging chads. It was not an easy win for GW.
What? The SC handed the election to Bush.  They stopped any attempts at a recount and declared GWB the winner. His brother was the Governor of the state. RW activists staged a fake "riot" to get their way. Since they all wore suits they weren't arrested.

BlueHouse

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2024, 01:11:33 PM »
As others have said, elections and the regulations around them are left up to the state.  States can choose to have open or closed primaries. 

When I first moved to DC, I had been a registered Independent.  I got to my first primary and there was no ballot for me.  The only ballot was for registered democrats.  So I changed my party affiliation on the spot so that I could have a voice.  DC is overwhelmingly blue, so it's not embarrassing at all.  when I help my mom vote, I'm surprised that they ask you at the door if you want a paper version to study before going into the booth and the republican one is red and the democrat one is blue.  I can't imagine it would be easy to vote your conscience in an all-red area. 

And if you want to see how much impact the local election officials have on elections, just look at the effed up ballot from Florida in 2000, which basically handed the election to Bush instead of Gore. 
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/19/bad-ballot-design-2020-democracy-america

Where I am both parties are usually outside the polling place handing out fliers showing the party's "preferred" slate. I used to decline both, having written down my choices earlier after using Ballotpedia to review the ballot ahead of time. Before that was available, I used to accept both fliers, which also keeps your preferences a secret.

Of course all that was before I switched to mail-in voting. Thanks PA!
I should have done that and will do it in the future when helping my mom.  Thanks!

iris lily

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2024, 04:04:45 PM »
..... when I help my mom vote, I'm surprised that they ask you at the door if you want a paper version to study before going into the booth and the republican one is red and the democrat one is blue.  I can't imagine it would be easy to vote your conscience in an all-red area. 
.......

This feeling isn't exclusive to all-red areas. Living in a deep blue area 20 years ago, even hinting that you were thinking of voting for a reddish candidate or proposition resulted in being treated as a pariah. And heaven forbid, anyone see the blizzard of mailers that showed up in your mailbox. Better hope nothing was misdelivered to your neighbor. But to your point, at least you weren't labelled with a scarlet R at the voting booth.

I much prefer where I live now. We may have loony-tunes on both sides but sometimes we can actually have real discussions about opposing views. It's been a relief.

DH was an election judge in the deep blue inner city for decades. Even though the little old ladies who worked with him at elections had been trained otherwise, they still, all too often, handed everyone who came to vote a Democratic primary ballot rather than asking which ballot the voter wanted.

Steering much?

« Last Edit: March 23, 2024, 04:09:00 PM by iris lily »

sonofsven

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2024, 06:32:35 PM »
..... when I help my mom vote, I'm surprised that they ask you at the door if you want a paper version to study before going into the booth and the republican one is red and the democrat one is blue.  I can't imagine it would be easy to vote your conscience in an all-red area. 
.......

This feeling isn't exclusive to all-red areas. Living in a deep blue area 20 years ago, even hinting that you were thinking of voting for a reddish candidate or proposition resulted in being treated as a pariah. And heaven forbid, anyone see the blizzard of mailers that showed up in your mailbox. Better hope nothing was misdelivered to your neighbor. But to your point, at least you weren't labelled with a scarlet R at the voting booth.

I much prefer where I live now. We may have loony-tunes on both sides but sometimes we can actually have real discussions about opposing views. It's been a relief.

DH was an election judge in the deep blue inner city for decades. Even though the little old ladies who worked with him at elections had been trained otherwise, they still, all too often, handed everyone who came to vote a Democratic primary ballot rather than asking which ballot the voter wanted.

Steering much?

Just another reason to have full mail in voting for all.

iris lily

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2024, 07:02:35 PM »
..... when I help my mom vote, I'm surprised that they ask you at the door if you want a paper version to study before going into the booth and the republican one is red and the democrat one is blue.  I can't imagine it would be easy to vote your conscience in an all-red area. 
.......

This feeling isn't exclusive to all-red areas. Living in a deep blue area 20 years ago, even hinting that you were thinking of voting for a reddish candidate or proposition resulted in being treated as a pariah. And heaven forbid, anyone see the blizzard of mailers that showed up in your mailbox. Better hope nothing was misdelivered to your neighbor. But to your point, at least you weren't labelled with a scarlet R at the voting booth.

I much prefer where I live now. We may have loony-tunes on both sides but sometimes we can actually have real discussions about opposing views. It's been a relief.

DH was an election judge in the deep blue inner city for decades. Even though the little old ladies who worked with him at elections had been trained otherwise, they still, all too often, handed everyone who came to vote a Democratic primary ballot rather than asking which ballot the voter wanted.

Steering much?

Just another reason to have full mail in voting for all.

Since the Democratic machine of St. Louis is adept at thwarting honest elections with mail ballots, I am sure they would love that.

They threw an entire election with invalid absentee ballots. A judge called it for what it was and ordered a new election to take place.

BlueHouse

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2024, 02:47:14 PM »
..... when I help my mom vote, I'm surprised that they ask you at the door if you want a paper version to study before going into the booth and the republican one is red and the democrat one is blue.  I can't imagine it would be easy to vote your conscience in an all-red area. 
.......

This feeling isn't exclusive to all-red areas. Living in a deep blue area 20 years ago, even hinting that you were thinking of voting for a reddish candidate or proposition resulted in being treated as a pariah. And heaven forbid, anyone see the blizzard of mailers that showed up in your mailbox. Better hope nothing was misdelivered to your neighbor. But to your point, at least you weren't labelled with a scarlet R at the voting booth.

I much prefer where I live now. We may have loony-tunes on both sides but sometimes we can actually have real discussions about opposing views. It's been a relief.

DH was an election judge in the deep blue inner city for decades. Even though the little old ladies who worked with him at elections had been trained otherwise, they still, all too often, handed everyone who came to vote a Democratic primary ballot rather than asking which ballot the voter wanted.

Steering much?
Well, if they're just getting a primary ballot, then it wouldn't matter much right?  It's not like they're steering anyone away from Rep candidates if this actually happened.

iris lily

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2024, 04:02:51 PM »
..... when I help my mom vote, I'm surprised that they ask you at the door if you want a paper version to study before going into the booth and the republican one is red and the democrat one is blue.  I can't imagine it would be easy to vote your conscience in an all-red area. 
.......

This feeling isn't exclusive to all-red areas. Living in a deep blue area 20 years ago, even hinting that you were thinking of voting for a reddish candidate or proposition resulted in being treated as a pariah. And heaven forbid, anyone see the blizzard of mailers that showed up in your mailbox. Better hope nothing was misdelivered to your neighbor. But to your point, at least you weren't labelled with a scarlet R at the voting booth.

I much prefer where I live now. We may have loony-tunes on both sides but sometimes we can actually have real discussions about opposing views. It's been a relief.

DH was an election judge in the deep blue inner city for decades. Even though the little old ladies who worked with him at elections had been trained otherwise, they still, all too often, handed everyone who came to vote a Democratic primary ballot rather than asking which ballot the voter wanted.

Steering much?
Well, if they're just getting a primary ballot, then it wouldn't matter much right?  It's not like they're steering anyone away from Rep candidates if this actually happened.

No, not “right.” Why wouldn’t it matter that someone cheated another candidate from the win? Gosh. Unless you mean one Democrat is all Democrats and that could not be further from the truth.

So that you understand, in my city the winner of the Democratic primary is the defacto  winner of the election. Moderate candidates (they would be “Republicans” in other jurisdictions) run on the Democratic ticket.

To be fair in explaining this  specific race, it was one lying manipulative long term Democratic politician against a lying nutjob Democratic politician and as painful as it was for me, I had to vote for the nutjob in the re-do election to punish the election thief.

He won but not do well and took himself out of the office before his term in the statehouse ended.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2024, 07:22:52 AM by iris lily »

BlueHouse

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2024, 03:19:49 PM »
..... when I help my mom vote, I'm surprised that they ask you at the door if you want a paper version to study before going into the booth and the republican one is red and the democrat one is blue.  I can't imagine it would be easy to vote your conscience in an all-red area. 
.......

This feeling isn't exclusive to all-red areas. Living in a deep blue area 20 years ago, even hinting that you were thinking of voting for a reddish candidate or proposition resulted in being treated as a pariah. And heaven forbid, anyone see the blizzard of mailers that showed up in your mailbox. Better hope nothing was misdelivered to your neighbor. But to your point, at least you weren't labelled with a scarlet R at the voting booth.

I much prefer where I live now. We may have loony-tunes on both sides but sometimes we can actually have real discussions about opposing views. It's been a relief.

DH was an election judge in the deep blue inner city for decades. Even though the little old ladies who worked with him at elections had been trained otherwise, they still, all too often, handed everyone who came to vote a Democratic primary ballot rather than asking which ballot the voter wanted.

Steering much?
Well, if they're just getting a primary ballot, then it wouldn't matter much right?  It's not like they're steering anyone away from Rep candidates if this actually happened.

No, not “right.” Why wouldn’t it matter that someone cheated another candidate from the win? Gosh. Unless you mean one Democrat is all Democrats and that could not be further from the truth.

So that you understand, in my city the winner of the Democratic primary is the defacto  winner of the election. Moderate candidates (they would be “Republicans” in other jurisdictions) run on the Democratic ticket.

To be fair in explaining this  specific race, it was one lying manipulative long term Democratic politician against a lying nutjob Democratic politician and as painful as it was for me, I had to vote for the nutjob in the re-do election to punish the election thief.

He won but not do well and took himself out of the office before his term in the statehouse ended.

I"m sorry, I didn't mean to upset you so much!  But I still don't understand the situation, although I do agree in general that errors are wrong and there is no excuse for errors or especially on purpose steering of voting.  I live in a city with similar voting profiles, and I guess I just don't understand what the point would be to try to steer someone to a different party in a primary vote.  First off, I'd notice immediately.  Second, even if I didn't, I'd only be voting out of a slate of candidates that I didn't want.  I'm not in any way condoning any shenanigans, but I don't see the point.  What would the benefit be?

iris lily

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Re: Why do I have to register for a Party in order to vote?
« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2024, 11:04:50 AM »
..... when I help my mom vote, I'm surprised that they ask you at the door if you want a paper version to study before going into the booth and the republican one is red and the democrat one is blue.  I can't imagine it would be easy to vote your conscience in an all-red area. 
.......

This feeling isn't exclusive to all-red areas. Living in a deep blue area 20 years ago, even hinting that you were thinking of voting for a reddish candidate or proposition resulted in being treated as a pariah. And heaven forbid, anyone see the blizzard of mailers that showed up in your mailbox. Better hope nothing was misdelivered to your neighbor. But to your point, at least you weren't labelled with a scarlet R at the voting booth.

I much prefer where I live now. We may have loony-tunes on both sides but sometimes we can actually have real discussions about opposing views. It's been a relief.

DH was an election judge in the deep blue inner city for decades. Even though the little old ladies who worked with him at elections had been trained otherwise, they still, all too often, handed everyone who came to vote a Democratic primary ballot rather than asking which ballot the voter wanted.

Steering much?
Well, if they're just getting a primary ballot, then it wouldn't matter much right?  It's not like they're steering anyone away from Rep candidates if this actually happened.

No, not “right.” Why wouldn’t it matter that someone cheated another candidate from the win? Gosh. Unless you mean one Democrat is all Democrats and that could not be further from the truth.

So that you understand, in my city the winner of the Democratic primary is the defacto  winner of the election. Moderate candidates (they would be “Republicans” in other jurisdictions) run on the Democratic ticket.

To be fair in explaining this  specific race, it was one lying manipulative long term Democratic politician against a lying nutjob Democratic politician and as painful as it was for me, I had to vote for the nutjob in the re-do election to punish the election thief.

He won but not do well and took himself out of the office before his term in the statehouse ended.

I"m sorry, I didn't mean to upset you so much!  But I still don't understand the situation, although I do agree in general that errors are wrong and there is no excuse for errors or especially on purpose steering of voting.  I live in a city with similar voting profiles, and I guess I just don't understand what the point would be to try to steer someone to a different party in a primary vote.  First off, I'd notice immediately.  Second, even if I didn't, I'd only be voting out of a slate of candidates that I didn't want.  I'm not in any way condoning any shenanigans, but I don't see the point.  What would the benefit be?

Sorry, I was reacting more to your comment thinking you were responding to the stolen election I wrote about. That was outright malicious thievery.

I don’t think the little old ladies steering voters to a Democratic ballot are doing it purposely.  I try not to mistake incompetence for malice.

Nor do I think the steering had an effect on outcome of the election, far from it. It’s one of many tiny things that go wrong in our democratic process of voting.

Keeping in mind, as you do, that every vote counts and it should be accurately recorded, newbie voters or voters without experience and conviction can easily be intimidated by the people in charge at the voting booth. Or, they may not even notice they were given a ballot without their preferred choices until settling in to mark it..

When someone comes in to vote Libertarian party and they’re handed a Democrat party ballot, and that voter is unsure about challenging the ballot given to them, Libertarians  lose a vote.  Those Libertarian ballots are counted and reported. In my state votes for one party are a  determining factor in getting on the ballot in future elections (tho to  be honest, I think it is general election votes that count.)





« Last Edit: April 09, 2024, 09:16:41 AM by iris lily »

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!