Author Topic: Traveling Teams  (Read 7669 times)

scwilson

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Traveling Teams
« on: July 29, 2018, 08:17:51 AM »
We have several friends whose children participate in traveling sports.  Starting at the age of 7 or 8, they spend weekends traveling to soccer, basketball, baseball, and hockey games.   It appears they are leveraging the cost now (sports participation fees, money for gas, and hotels) with a potential payoff later (most likely in the form of a college scholarship because we know the odds of "going pro" are low).  We have young children and are wondering what your thoughts are on traveling teams from a financial perspective.

Peter Parker

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2018, 08:36:09 AM »
I have three children.  One out of college and two in college.  All participated in traveling sports teams (but not on the scale of some people).  We never thought of the sports as a vehicle to college.  We always focused on academics as a way to get into college.  Here's my rearview mirror thoughts:

1.  The people who were thinking sports would be a vehicle to pay for college were idiots.  If the people would have put the money they were dumping into traveling teams into an investment account, they would have had plenty of money to pay for college.

2. The chances of your child making it into a D1 (or even D2) under a scholarship is a longshot at best.  My kids play competitive intramural sports at college--the students on these teams are better than most of the high school all stars....To actually make on a D1 team is difficult--and to get a scholarship is even more challenging.

3.  Even if you do get a scholarship to a D1 school, the student/sport life is crazy.  My son's girlfriend plays D1 volleyball.  She is entering her senior year (after starting all previous years).  Coaches ride these kids so hard (because THEIR job depends on it) that the student's academic  experience can suffer.  One of the things she looks forward to is ending her collegiate sports....

4.  Their are a lot of scholarships available for academic (rather than sport) achievement.  My kids all got some sort of academic scholarship money--I was shocked at the amount that was being offered if the college wasn't a top-ranked school.  So if your child is willing to be a big fish in a smaller pond, they may have a better chances at college money for academic achievement rather than sport--PLUS they will be better prepared for the academic rigors of college.

wordnerd

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2018, 08:45:28 AM »
I have a lot of feelings on this. My biased view: it's highly unlikely to result in a scholarship of any meaningful value. It is somewhat likely to burn kids out and leave them with other challenges.

Anecdata from my life: my brother was a competitive gymnast from age 7ish through 14. He was good which meanr it quickly took over our family's life. We were at the gym five nights a week. Weekends were spent at gym meets. At some point, we started eating dinner at 9pm because that's when practice ended. Despite that, he liked it and continued to excel. Around sixth grade, things started falling apart for him. He couldn't do homework and excel at gymnastics. He started failing classes (previously A student) and forging my parents' signatures on forms intended to inform my parents of his grades. He was so unhappy both at school and at the gym (where he was topping out and couldn't keep up with the very elite gymnasts). When he finally quit, he went back to being a 4.0 student in high school, had time for other activities, and went to a top college (would not have been able to get in with the grades he had while competing). A lot of his teammates went through similar struggles.

My husband went through something similar. He was a top swimmer (held state records at one point). Totally burnt out. Threw up from stress. His parents wanted him to get a scholarship. He eventually calculated he could make the same amount by working a job during the hours he would be swimming. And that's what he did.

These examples may sound extreme but I think it's easy for things to spiral past the point of reason once a family is in it. They start falling prey to the sunk cost fallacy and just keep going.

I want my kids to have the experience of team sports but I will do everything I can to avoid high level teams.

Lanthiriel

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2018, 09:04:25 AM »
I had a boss who spent thousands of dollars per month on her teeenage daughter’s dance classes and competitions at the cost of funding her own retirement. I could never wrap my head around it.

boarder42

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2018, 09:17:35 AM »
Spend that time focusing on academics use sports for recreation fun and leadership. It's much easier to get academic scholarships than athletic scholarships. Just go look at a college website if you had x GPA and y act/sat score we will give you z much money. Intelligence is much more important than athletics.

We just had our first child she's 2 weeks old my wife and I both agree. It's local rec leauges.

sixwings

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2018, 09:41:08 AM »
I don't have kids so take this for what it's worth but I think looking at sports as a cost/benefit for your kids as purely financial is missing the actual benefits.

I grew up playing competitive basketball and speed skating. At one point I was top 3 in Canada in my age group and was discussed as a potential Olympian. I then switched my focus to basketball and went to the US for gr. 11 + 12 to a private boarding school that offered me an all expenses paid to go play for them. I ended up not focusing on sports after high school and only play for fun. I graduated college in 2011 and haven't picked up a basketball since then. I haven't skated since I went to the US in 2004. My parents were not rich, my dad was a carpenter and my mom was a SAHM until my dad left and she became a nurse to make ends meet then. I'm sure that the travel, especially for speed skating as I had to travel all over Canada, expensive equipment (my speed skate blades alone were like $500) cost a lot and there was no real financial payoff at the end. My dad is mostly retired (he still does some projects because he likes it), and my mom retired both are around 66-68.

But I think it was well worth the money and I know my parents agree. I learned a lot about leadership playing basketball and being the captain of a state championship winning team. I built great friendships with teammates, some of who I am still great friends with today. One of my old speed skating pals and rivals has won several Olympic medals and we still get together once a year when he's in town. I also learned about athletics and nutrition that has kept me in great shape. I am pretty optimistic about health care tech and I think that for someone of my generation who keeps themselves in good shape and avoids obesity will easily live to be 100-130 with healthy years until 90-100 (that's my personal opinion based on not much more than general optimism) and the focus in sports helps me do that.

I dunno, this conversation about the financial cost/benefits is really missing the real benefits of sports which is the social aspect as well as the fitness, strength and nutrition aspects. Sure the cost might mean that you retire a few years later than you planned, but what could be the payoff for your kid?

Just my $0.02.

Fishindude

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2018, 10:06:58 AM »
It's getting pretty ridiculous.  If you have the spare funds and can afford it, fine if that's what you enjoy doing, but from my observation, most who are doing this probably shouldn't be spending that much money every weekend.  You have fuel expenses, meals, motels and upkeep of a late model car to keep up with the Jones.  Could easily be blowing $300 per weekend  on these activities.

Dicey

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2018, 10:45:52 AM »
Interesting story, sixwings Thanks for sharing. All the things you cite in your closing paragraph can probably be attained much more frugally, which is kind of the point of living a mustachian lifestyle.

What I see locally is these teams foster a bunch of wanna-be pros. There are so many of them that they completely fill the rosters of their HS sports teams. Gone are the days of a kid taking up a sport in middle school or later and playing for their  high school. Nope, sorry, those slots are all taken by kids the coach already knows. Just this person's observation.

mancityfan

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2018, 10:53:33 AM »
Youth Sports in the US is an industry. I am not sure you can say that about youth sports anywhere else in the world? Certainly not to the extent that we see here. The goal is getting high participation rates, not on promoting excellence. There are so many teams and leagues, that the talent pool is diluted. Each league is a money making opportunity for the clubs and coaches. The tournaments, paid camps, personal training options, all add to dollars going into the system. The result is we get parents wasting tons of money, and getting unrealistic expectations of their children's abilities. It is a pretty toxic cocktail IMHO.

mancityfan

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2018, 11:24:41 AM »

[/quote]

  I guess my feeling is that, unless you're totally choosing the wrong sport for your body type, that most kids who put in the time can and should be able to earn an athletic scholarship.

[/quote]

Sorry, this is an example of the unrealistic expectations.

mancityfan

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2018, 11:51:33 AM »
Gotcha Immmattdamon. I would like to see some data also. I may be more sanguine than some, as I have spent several years in youth soccer, as a coach, and as a referee/official. I am also a teacher, so I interact with kids on a daily basis. I love sports, and see the benefits of it, but more and more I am not sure that the kids are actually having fun. They are picked out at a very early age, and placed at a level, and it can be hard to change that. A lot of kids I have worked with have made an active decision to drop out of sports by high school.

Raymond Reddington

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2018, 11:56:25 AM »
For hockey the likelihood of payoff in the form of a scholarship is very low.

The path to professional hockey is very different than most major sports. Typically, it's fairly rare for players to go directly from high school to college. Most high school programs aren't good enough to prepare a kid for an NCAA Division 1 college program. Most D1 schools get a good number of their players from juniors hockey, either in the US or Canada - which means they are recruited to begin their college careers when they are overage for their academic year - commonly by 1 year, sometimes by as much as 3 or 4. These are the players who aren't likely to turn pro. The elite players who want to turn pro typically have to enroll at expensive/far away boarding schools with a strong hockey pedigree (Google Shattuck-St. Mary's or Phillips Exeter), and often end up trying out for the US National Team Development Program, which means a year of that specifically, and a lot of travelling / late start to college also, if they go the college route. Kids that go the juniors route are often tutored while they play, so they end up at an economic disadvantage to their peers.

If the kid is good enough, he's unlikely to finish his college career - he may only play 1-2 seasons, then try and turn pro. So the payoff would be in the form of turning pro, but he'd have to return to finish his education later if his plans don't pan out, and without the scholarship. The lure of pro money is often too good to pass up, though non-star players offered the opportunity to sign and play minor league hockey will typically finish out their college careers because the likelihood of success is lower (which is most).

Basically, you have to ask yourself if this is something your kid wants, or you want. If it's something that's going to make him happy, and be fun, it can be a valuable investment with many good life lessons. Hockey, in my opinion more than any other sport, teaches the values of teamwork, selfless action, perserverance, and humility. It's probably the only major sport where "ME ME ME" is frowned upon in a major way. It generally creates well adjusted adults who may not be the most intelligent people on the planet, but know how to work together and have strong communication skills (which you learn on the ice). However, if you view payoff strictly in the form of what it will save you down the road in college scholarships, know that would be an extremely unlikely outcome, unless your kid is already generally skating circles around the opposition. And if you go that route, it will likely require many more sacrifices from you on the way, such as tuition at an expensive boarding school to access great coaches, etc.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2018, 12:09:04 PM by Raymond Reddington »

boarder42

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2018, 12:04:38 PM »
You can get the discpline team work and leadership from a sport with out joining a traveling team to suggest there is extra real value there in my opinion is absurd.

Raymond Reddington

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2018, 12:08:30 PM »
To add on to some of the replies in this thread:

-The problem with "wanna be pros" is the parents buy into this nonsense that if they want it for their kids bad enough, their kids will get it. Becoming a professional athlete requires the athlete to commit to it, and develop or be born with an exceptional amount of athletic talent, genetics that lead to the creation of a suitable body type for the sport in question, as well as benefit from luck along the way at minimum in the form of avoiding major injuries, at most in the form of beneficial incidences to other players that allow that player to get their shot. If the parents ride the kids too hard, the kid encounters a bad coach (which there are plenty of), the kid will burn out naturally.

-Another problem is all of the adults seem to feel the kids need to play the same way. You see this most often in baseball. The joy of just hitting the ball hard consistently, and that raw feeling (one of the best things after sex, by the way) has been replaced with a bunch of expensive batting cage sessions analyzing exit velo and launch angle. In hockey, the joy of scoring goals has been stifled by defensive systems put in place by coaches that stifle creativity. Players grow up learning how to play within the system. In no sport is this truer than hockey. My favorite players to watch in hockey are the Russians. They move unconventionally on the ice, and this allows them to create scoring chances where North American players cannot. The Russian players go to areas of the ice where they can get open. They fire pucks unexpectedly off the pass from bad angles that can catch a goalie by surprise. The North American players, who have been conditioned in the "one way to play the game" take predictable routes when they don't have the puck, to set up predictable passing lanes, and wait to unload shots until they have a predictable amount of space, and only to do so from a predictable angle. Nowhere is this more apparent than college hockey, where defense dominates.

-Also, the entitlement of athletes comes from parents. One of the things I like about hockey is that if your parents carry your gear, you get made fun of. If you try to say "well I did my job, you all didn't" you get called out as a jerk. It's one of the only sports left where a selfless attitude is generally rewarded, although you have some that are raised in the game as "the next great ____" who become golden boys who think their shit don't stink, and the rest of hockey hates them for it (this is why Sidney Crosby has never been popular, by the way). The ME ME ME types like Sean Avery quickly fade into irrelevance.

Raymond Reddington

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2018, 12:15:45 PM »
You can get the discpline team work and leadership from a sport with out joining a traveling team to suggest there is extra real value there in my opinion is absurd.

The extra value is determined by the kid. The OP said his kids are very young. When they reach the age where a travel team is an option, they will likely beg their parents to join, or they will say "whatever." If the OP truly wants the best for his kids, he'll at least entertain the option if the kids really want it.
-Best case scenario, it opens up the door to a possible professional career.
-Worst case scenario, his kid learns a valuable lesson about other people trying too hard and only does it for a year. It then frees up the kid's faculties to pursue a different avenue in life, he probably works harder in school, and becomes successful in a different way, but still gets the benefit of the lessons of teamwork and leadership AND perserverance because the kid still is made to finish the year on that travel team, so he learns to live with the consequences of his choices.

Besides, there is also a third option:
-Kid wants the team, gets cut from tryouts. Competition for these spots is tight. This either gets the kid to face reality, and hockey returns to just being something "fun" again for him that he continues to play in a house league, OR he quits entirely. OR, it's that important to him that it lights the spark that makes him work extra hard to not get cut the following year. Then he either gets cut again, and it's apparent that the dream is dead...or he makes the team, and is allowed to dream a little bit more, returning to the two bullet points above.

The approach is in the parenting, not in the activity. If the kid comes home and says he wants to quit, then you make the kid finish the year so he learns to live with the consequences of his actions, but you don't force him to keep playing. And you don't force the kid to tryout for the travel team, it's something where the kid has to come to you and ask for it. This is how you avoid being like the other parents.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2018, 12:17:20 PM by Raymond Reddington »

anotherAlias

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2018, 01:13:45 PM »
One thing I haven't seen mentioned are the injury risks.  I don't know about other areas, but around here the kids on the traveling teams are playing the chosen sport year round in one leauge or another from early ages.  This is causing an increase in repetitive stress injuries in much younger kids than had been seen in previous generations.  They don't get enough down time to let their bodies recover because they're doing the same training/activity all year. I swam competitively in high school and would have burnt out on it much easier than I did if I had started year round competing when I was younger.

boarder42

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2018, 01:29:54 PM »
One thing I haven't seen mentioned are the injury risks.  I don't know about other areas, but around here the kids on the traveling teams are playing the chosen sport year round in one leauge or another from early ages.  This is causing an increase in repetitive stress injuries in much younger kids than had been seen in previous generations.  They don't get enough down time to let their bodies recover because they're doing the same training/activity all year. I swam competitively in high school and would have burnt out on it much easier than I did if I had started year round competing when I was younger.

Based on what I've learned about hockey in this thread I assume this doesn't apply to that sport. It is the super sport we should all be putting our kids in.

ROF Expat

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2018, 02:26:25 PM »
I think there's a lot to be said for participation in organized sports.  It teaches self discipline, encourages fitness, and teamwork (in team sports). 

From a financial perspective, I don't think there's anything even remotely sensible about it.  If you add up all the costs of participating in traveling teams, transportation and hotel costs, equipment, etc. over a decade or more, you're likely to come up with a pretty considerable sum, especially if you invested it.  The reality is that most kids participating on traveling teams won't get any scholarship at all, so there's a good chance that financial return on investment is zero.  Of course, some will receive scholarships, but most of those aren't full rides.   I've attached links below that show information on how much money is involved in scholarships (not as much as you might think) and the odds of getting one (not very good).  You might think that a wrestling scholarship would be easier than football, but the 270,000 High School wrestlers in America are competing for only about 1500 scholarships.  With soccer, it is about 417,000 High School students competing for around 6200 scholarships.  Keep in mind that the reality is even harsher, because a lot of athletic scholarships in certain sports (including tennis, ice hockey, and soccer) go to foreign students. 

The average NCAA Division 1 Men's scholarship is only about $14,000.  In Division II, it is only $5500.  And even if your child gets offered a scholarship, accepting it might mean choosing a college/university that might not be a particularly good fit otherwise, and might not be particularly strong in a subject he or she might want to study.  And when they get that scholarship, they will have to dedicate huge amounts of time and effort into their sport, probably taking away from time that would be better spent studying.  Poor performance or an injury can mean losing a scholarship.  At the end of the day, my bet is that investing the money you'd spend on travel teams and encouraging your children to dedicate the hours they'd put into travel team, high school, and University sports into a part-time job would probably give you a higher return on your investment.  In fact, putting all those hours into actually studying might well generate more money in academic scholarships...

All that said, if your kid loves playing a sport and wants to be on a traveling team, and you can afford it, why not?  If it turns into an athletic scholarship, great.  If not, there are benefits that go far beyond the financial.  I just think that trying to justify it as an investment is a mistake. 


http://www.scholarshipstats.com/average-per-athlete.html
http://www.scholarshipstats.com/scholarshipodds.html

boarder42

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2018, 02:31:39 PM »
I feel we're improperly mixing 2 things here. Organized sports and traveling teams. You can play organized sports and get discpline team work leadership etc. Without doing the overly time commitment of a traveling team.

I wanted to be on traveling teams my parents didn't let me I thank them for that. It's dumb all around regardless of if you can afford it. Use your brain teach your kids. Sports are for fun and have blown up way too big period.

englishteacheralex

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2018, 04:03:00 PM »
Posting to follow, as this is a topic that interests me as both a former athlete and a mother of two toddlers. For the record, I am opposed to spending a lot of money and time on sports for my own children, but I've learned not to be too dogmatic about anything involving child-rearing since things change so much when it's your own child looking up at you with big dreams.

We'll cross that bridge when we get to it, I suppose. My idealistic preference is to have my kids play sports as part of more recreational-level athletics. As soon as we're talking a ton of practice time, travel for competition, and expenses for high level gear, I'm out.

Raymond Reddington

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2018, 04:32:53 PM »
I feel we're improperly mixing 2 things here. Organized sports and traveling teams. You can play organized sports and get discpline team work leadership etc. Without doing the overly time commitment of a traveling team.

I wanted to be on traveling teams my parents didn't let me I thank them for that. It's dumb all around regardless of if you can afford it. Use your brain teach your kids. Sports are for fun and have blown up way too big period.

I absolutely agree it's not necessary to join a travel team to gain the lessons of sports, but I also think that's something that depends on the kid and your actual financial resources. Does the kid want to participate? If no, then you certainly don't force the kid to try out for the travel team (as many parents do) and let him continue to play for fun. However, if the kid wants it, the kid could thrive in that environment, or he could hate it. I actually think that's an opportunity to do some very MMM like symbolic gestures to drive home the point of "how important is this to you, son?" like say that he'll have to accept a small cut in his allowance for joining the team, to see if he really wants it. But if he really, REALLY wants it, a parent shouldn't stand in the way. That will engender resentment if his "pro aspirations" don't work out and be a continual source of conflict that can harm a parent-child relationship if not dealt with properly. On the other hand, if the kid decides he hates it, it's a good opportunity to force him to finish the season so he learns the lesson of commitment. Then the following year he can go back to a house league, lesson learned, and the "missed opportunity" narrative doesn't have to dog your relationship with your son.

I just don't see it as cut and dry as "never let your kid try out for a travel team ever"

boarder42

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2018, 05:06:34 PM »
So by this logic if my kid would like a private car service to take him to school daily I should let him do that if I can afford. Bull shit traveling teams period are antimustachian. Regardless of your ability to afford it. Where are we right now.

cats

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2018, 05:14:16 PM »
My kid is only 2 so this isn't really a concern, but I do not plan to encourage high level sports competition (e.g. traveling teams, multiple practices per week for multiple seasons per year, etc).  My main concern would be the potential for injury and the amount of time these kinds of sports take up--it is a LOT (I think) to ask a kid to do multiple practices per week and spend weekends out of town regularly if it isn't something *they* are asking for/initiating.

I did play soccer recreationally and participate in summer swim teams growing up and I think they were great for me--I really enjoyed swimming and in retrospect I do maybe wish my parents had been more interested in letting me try a year-round swim team (I had a passing interest at one point and my mother said no way were we going to be able to make it to 6AM practices, I didn't pursue it further).  So if it turns out our son has a real passion for a certain sport, we'll certainly work to figure out the funding and other logistics, but not with the expectation of a sports scholarship or other payoff. 

Raymond Reddington

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2018, 05:24:19 PM »
So by this logic if my kid would like a private car service to take him to school daily I should let him do that if I can afford. Bull shit traveling teams period are antimustachian. Regardless of your ability to afford it. Where are we right now.

Would you agree or disagree that the people involved in traveling teams are typically higher caliber players?  If you could persuade yourself that there's a meaningful difference there, that the players on the traveling teams are at least slightly better, then it seems reasonable to me that someone practicing against higher caliber players is going to get better than someone playing against less caliber players. 

Around where I live there is something called the Olympic Development program; they were interviewing one of the girls, who said that the best players she ever played against were in practice for the ODP program -- not through her highschool soccer team. 

Thoughts?

Exactly. Also, if a kid is good enough to play professionally or look into college scholarships, some of these travel teams actually have people involved with them who have the sort of connections that can allow these things to happen, if the kid is good enough some day.

The variable is the kid's talent, desire, and demeanor. There's a fundamental difference between spoiling your kid with a private car service to school and allowing him to try out for a team to play a sport against higher competition.

ROF Expat

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2018, 06:09:25 PM »
So for soccer...

6200 scholarships, but 11 positions on a team.  To simplify things, I'm going to assume a soccer player can only get a scholarship in one position.  6,200/11 positions is 563 scholarships per position.  Let's also assume that most will come from the U.S., not internationally.  563/ 50 states is 11... so that tells me that to get a soccer scholarship at your position, you would probably have to be one of the top 11 players in your position, in your state.  I realize this analysis is simplistic for several reasons, but just trying to get  broad sense of what would be required.

Maybe this is my own rosy, newish dad naïveté talking, but with the proper time investment and training, as well as the right attitude and body type, it seems feasible for a kid that puts in the time and the effort to get a soccer scholarship.

Am I wrong? :)   

I think you're making some assumptions that might not be accurate.  First, I'm pretty sure that the 6,152 scholarships figure is total scholarships available for teams, not the # available each year, so that would make about 1540 scholarships available each year.  And given that there are about 28,500 collegiate soccer players, coaches have to recruit about 7100 players each year.  If you're going strictly by the numbers, a kid would have to be among the top 1,540 players nationally in the year he graduates.  Of course, it isn't that simple.  I'd guess there are plenty of high level soccer players who choose not to accept scholarships for various reasons.  On the other hand, foreign students are a reality, and they raise the bar on competition for scholarships. 


Is it fair to say "with the proper time investment and training, as well as the right attitude and body type, it seems feasible for a kid that puts in the time and the effort to get a soccer scholarship"?  Maybe.

"Feasible" seems to be a pretty vague concept.  But I wouldn't call it "likely."  And frankly, I think you're minimizing the genetic component of high level athletics. At the lower levels of sport (maybe through the High School level), kids with little or no athletic ability can succeed because of hard work.  But I'm pretty confident that by the time you're competing for scholarships, pretty much everyone has both athletic ability and works hard. 

boarder42

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2018, 06:34:12 PM »
The delusions of grandeur in this thread are wildly impressive. All of you talking about Olympians and pro athletes and full ride scholarships.

The effort is not worth the end results for a majority of people. I can't help but laugh at this point. 

If my kids playing against the best kids they've got a better chance at being paid for this yeah they do have a better chance but it's marginal at best.

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2018, 08:50:25 PM »


I dunno, this conversation about the financial cost/benefits is really missing the real benefits of sports which is the social aspect as well as the fitness, strength and nutrition aspects. Sure the cost might mean that you retire a few years later than you planned, but what could be the payoff for your kid?

Just my $0.02.

Best post here. Thank you. Everything in life isn’t about money, especially when it comes to things that can be learned that you can’t really place a dollar amount on.

I’m still insanely into exercise now and have been since I was 14 (lifting weights since 14, sports since kindergarten). I’m confident that my exercise/fitness/diet habits have honestly helped me be successful and disciplined that has rolled over into my career. Unsure if a lot is due to sports growing up and creating those habits, but it seems like it.

bacchi

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2018, 09:01:01 PM »


I dunno, this conversation about the financial cost/benefits is really missing the real benefits of sports which is the social aspect as well as the fitness, strength and nutrition aspects. Sure the cost might mean that you retire a few years later than you planned, but what could be the payoff for your kid?

Just my $0.02.

Best post here. Thank you. Everything in life isn’t about money, especially when it comes to things that can be learned that you can’t really place a dollar amount on.

I’m still insanely into exercise now and have been since I was 14 (lifting weights since 14, sports since kindergarten). I’m confident that my exercise/fitness/diet habits have honestly helped me be successful and disciplined that has rolled over into my career. Unsure if a lot is due to sports growing up and creating those habits, but it seems like it.

Again, as boarder42 pointed out, there's a difference between organized sports in a local club league and traveling teams.

Yes, sports can have social as well as fitness aspects. A child doesn't have to travel on the weekends to learn that though.

jeninco

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2018, 09:01:35 PM »
I've got two kids, 17 and 14, who have both participated in serous-ish traveling teams: however, around here that means local-isn, so fall and spring seasons of 8-10 weeks when drives to weekend games rarely exceed 2 hours (and half the games are home games, so no driving). Neither kid made it onto the first team in his age group, although the older one is now one of the captains of his varsity team this year.

I'd say a couple of things:
1. The kid has to be interested, enthusiastic, and engaged in the activity. There was a lovely piece of advice floating someplace around to let you kid sample a whole range of things that might be appealing, and see if one of them is so inspiring TO HIM/HER that s/he wants to spend the time to achieve mastery.
2. There's often pretty decent instruction available for less then the scammy clubs.
3. Youth athletics can be a business. Comparison shop!
4. The most important thing is the coach/instructor. And that person's boss, and the head of the program. Is that person someone you want as a role model for your child? How are practices run? We've chosen some of our activities based mostly on the quality of the coach/teacher, and even if that's not something that the kid was totally fired up about, it generally ends well.
On the other hand, if the club is run by a bunch of coach-bros who are in it to make money, that'd be a good time to start sidling in the opposite direction...

Good luck!

Raymond Reddington

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2018, 09:15:57 PM »
I've got two kids, 17 and 14, who have both participated in serous-ish traveling teams: however, around here that means local-isn, so fall and spring seasons of 8-10 weeks when drives to weekend games rarely exceed 2 hours (and half the games are home games, so no driving). Neither kid made it onto the first team in his age group, although the older one is now one of the captains of his varsity team this year.

I'd say a couple of things:
1. The kid has to be interested, enthusiastic, and engaged in the activity. There was a lovely piece of advice floating someplace around to let you kid sample a whole range of things that might be appealing, and see if one of them is so inspiring TO HIM/HER that s/he wants to spend the time to achieve mastery.
2. There's often pretty decent instruction available for less then the scammy clubs.
3. Youth athletics can be a business. Comparison shop!
4. The most important thing is the coach/instructor. And that person's boss, and the head of the program. Is that person someone you want as a role model for your child? How are practices run? We've chosen some of our activities based mostly on the quality of the coach/teacher, and even if that's not something that the kid was totally fired up about, it generally ends well.
On the other hand, if the club is run by a bunch of coach-bros who are in it to make money, that'd be a good time to start sidling in the opposite direction...

Good luck!

This.

FireHiker

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2018, 10:09:28 AM »
I haven't read all of the replies, but I do have some experience with kids in travel sports, soccer specifically. My oldest (he's now 17) played two years of club soccer, in 7th and 8th grade. He played rec for years, but he was never exceptional enough to try out for club, much to our relief. Then in about 6th grade he started playing as goalkeeper, and he was quite good. He was playing in spring rec one year and a club coach saw him play and got our contact info to ask if our son would be willing to come out to his team (a year up from his own age group) because his team needed a keeper. He did, and played for two years. It actually ended up being a very positive experience for him. It wasn't the "premier" team so we didn't have the level of expense that some of our friends had (to be fair, in that family, they live and breath soccer: dad played pro, parents met playing adult rec, oldest daughter got a full ride scholarship for soccer, I will be shocked if their son, my son's friend, doesn't get the same next year). It was probably about $2000/yr including everything; there was only one overnight tournament a year so it wasn't too bad.

For our son I think it was a good experience; he really matured a lot and learned to manage his time well. We were fortunate to have three other kids in our neighborhood on the same team so we carpooled for practice and each only had to drive one way once a week since they practiced 2x per week.

Now we're faced with #2 really wanting to play club soccer...but he's only 8. We put it off last year, but he's relentlessly been pushing the issue. He's really, really good; we're not sure where his skill came from because neither of us are very athletic! He's playing rec again this fall, but we'll probably let him try out next winter/spring if he is still insistent. He has tried other sports (I think it's important to sample a few early on if there's interest) but he has dropped them all now and only wants to play soccer. The club teams have been recruiting him for two years but we want to make sure he is really serious about it before we concede. There are multiple clubs to choose from in our area so we're trying to decide which would be the best fit for him before we go through with it. Unfortunately, if a kid wants to play soccer in high school here, they have to play club; it's really competitive and even some club players don't make the high school team. My oldest switched to rugby in high school instead.

A co-worker spends 5 figures on his son's travel hockey every year...I'm so glad none of mine have wanted to play hockey. I can stomach paying $2000/yr for the soccer, but 5x that would hurt.

hudsoncat

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2018, 10:56:14 AM »


Maybe I'm more bullish than most.  I guess my feeling is that, unless you're totally choosing the wrong sport for your body type, that most kids who put in the time can and should be able to earn an athletic scholarship.  If you wrestle from the age of five, you're going to have the skill that some school will offer you an athletic scholarship.  It probably won't be D1... but if we're going to trumpet the value of community colleges on this board, it seems silly to be dismissive of the value of D2, D3, etc athletic scholarships. 

 

Most scholarships at the D2 level are partial, nothing like what people think about when they think of a 'full ride' to college. They split the scholarship money between players to make it go farther. D3 doesn't offer athletic scholarships... so you are looking at D1 or more likely partial scholarships for lower divisions/NAIA/NJCAA/etc. My alma mater is a D2  powerhouse in football. Not very many of those guys are getting a full scholarship. Even the ones that won back to back national championships a few years back.

DH played football from the time he was a pee wee up. He was an excellent center. He had some looks to play at the college level (well below D1). But none of the minor scholarships offered could match up to the academic scholarships he was offered for being a good student. No contest. Note: DH was a better wrestler than football player actually (state placements, etc)... wasn't even a sniff of scholarships for him in that direction for him. Granted he did not pursue either too much as he knew the academic side would always be a better deal for him
« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 11:14:59 AM by hudsoncat »

Pigeon

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2018, 11:18:32 AM »
Having observed the dynamics of having friends and relatives involved in the traveling sports teams, we were glad our kids weren't interested.  I know of only one child who ended up getting a scholarship, and I'm not sure the scholarship was in his best interest, as he decided to go to a college that he never in a million years would have otherwise selected and it isn't really a good fit.  Also keep in mind that even if the kid does get a scholarship, if he or she gets injured and can no longer play, the scholarship won't be renewed.

I have a niece who was an excellent soccer and basketball player and her family did the traveling leagues for so many years.  By the time she got to be a senior in high school she was burnt out by all of it and decided not to play anything in college. 

In addition to the money involved with the traveling leagues, the time commitment can be a huge burden on families.  High school is a busy enough time, I can't imaging adding travel sports to the mix.

bognish

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2018, 11:28:30 AM »
My son is going into second grade. All his buddies from the playground just joined a travel soccer club. I don't think any of the parents are doing this for future payoff plans. For our group it is access to coaches and competitive teams. Rec league has volunteer coaches, usually a dad of one of the players. Our friends kids had a coach that did not know anything about soccer and basically just sent the kids out to play. It was fine, but they didn't even know the basic rules of the game.  They are not learning teamwork when half the parents are rewarding their kid for scoring goals and the coach is too.

We are sticking with the rec league. My son's team has a great coach that focus' on core skills and teamwork. I think they had 1 goal scored against them last season. This fall they are playing up a level (so second graders playing against 3&4th) so they have some competition. Should be interesting.

So rec league can end up with a frustrating uneven situation with kids of wildly different skill levels and interest playing together. If you have a good kid on a team of butterfly chasers they can end up hating a sport at an early age.

We might end up in a travel soccer team one of these years, but it won't be with expectations for any financial return on investment. Plus for our family winter is ski season, so that puts a major barrier for year round soccer dreams (probably not a cost saving plan).

By the River

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2018, 11:42:17 AM »
For college baseball, the D1 teams are limited to 11.7 equivalent scholarships.  With 25 players on each team, very, very few would receive a full ride.  Most have 1/3 to 1/2 ride.   There is minor league baseball so some good players skip college altogether and go that route.  Which is very low pay and bus rides everywhere. 

This is an interesting site which gives the number of high school players per sport versus number in college..http://www.scholarshipstats.com/varsityodds.html   For boys, the highest chance is lacrosse and for girls, its ice hockey. 


CCCA

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2018, 11:46:24 AM »
So for soccer...

6200 scholarships, but 11 positions on a team.  To simplify things, I'm going to assume a soccer player can only get a scholarship in one position.  6,200/11 positions is 563 scholarships per position.  Let's also assume that most will come from the U.S., not internationally.  563/ 50 states is 11... so that tells me that to get a soccer scholarship at your position, you would probably have to be one of the top 11 players in your position, in your state.  I realize this analysis is simplistic for several reasons, but just trying to get  broad sense of what would be required.

Maybe this is my own rosy, newish dad naïveté talking, but with the proper time investment and training, as well as the right attitude and body type, it seems feasible for a kid that puts in the time and the effort to get a soccer scholarship.

Am I wrong? :)   

I think you're making some assumptions that might not be accurate.  First, I'm pretty sure that the 6,152 scholarships figure is total scholarships available for teams, not the # available each year, so that would make about 1540 scholarships available each year.  And given that there are about 28,500 collegiate soccer players, coaches have to recruit about 7100 players each year.  If you're going strictly by the numbers, a kid would have to be among the top 1,540 players nationally in the year he graduates.  Of course, it isn't that simple.  I'd guess there are plenty of high level soccer players who choose not to accept scholarships for various reasons.  On the other hand, foreign students are a reality, and they raise the bar on competition for scholarships. 


Is it fair to say "with the proper time investment and training, as well as the right attitude and body type, it seems feasible for a kid that puts in the time and the effort to get a soccer scholarship"?  Maybe. 

"Feasible" seems to be a pretty vague concept.  But I wouldn't call it "likely."  And frankly, I think you're minimizing the genetic component of high level athletics. At the lower levels of sport (maybe through the High School level), kids with little or no athletic ability can succeed because of hard work.  But I'm pretty confident that by the time you're competing for scholarships, pretty much everyone has both athletic ability and works hard.


This is an interesting discussion. 
Based on the number of 1500 soccer scholarships in soccer per year, just to give the right context on how difficult that is.  That is about the same number of students in the freshman class at Harvard or Stanford.  And just like getting admitted to those schools, there's a lot of hard work that goes into it, but also alot of genetics/heredity at play, as well as luck and money.  So I would expect there are enough "gifted" athletes that also work hard enough to beat out most "non-gifted" athletes that work hard.   


But unlike getting into a good college, sports scholarships are sort of binary, either you do or don't and if you don't, your "investment" will have been for naught.  If you don't get into Harvard (but are close, i.e. qualified) then you'll get into another excellent private or state school.


We are having this discussion within our family as our daughter is getting more into soccer.  Currently she's in a rec league but all the better players in the league leave to join more teams in a more competitive leagues (with real (not parent) coaches) so we may follow this path (or not).

SimpleCycle

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2018, 11:59:34 AM »
I can't imagine a world where our family invests the money and most importantly TIME into a traveling sports team.  My kids are 1 and 3 and I never say never, but it just seems really unlikely.  DW played ice hockey at a Div 3 school and I ran in high school but went to a Div 1 school where I was nowhere good enough or committed enough to run for my school.  So we both value recreational sports, but they are not the be all end all of our existence.  And it just seems like it would cut so much into our time as a family.  I'm not sure what I would do if one of my kids was really interested in doing sports (or any activity) at that level.

But it also seems unlikely because we are not doing anything to encourage activities at a young age.  We have a friend whose kid is the same age as my three year old and she's doing gymnastics and dance this fall.  My kid, on the other hand, can't follow directions well enough to make it through a Mommy and Me yoga class, which is the only organized activity we do.

mak1277

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2018, 12:09:27 PM »
And it just seems like it would cut so much into our time as a family.  I'm not sure what I would do if one of my kids was really interested in doing sports (or any activity) at that level.

What, then, would you encourage your kids to do?  You would really discourage the intense pursuit of an activity your child was good at (be it sports, music, or whatever)? 

I don't look at travel sports as cutting into family time...I look at it as family time. 

me1

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2018, 12:19:24 PM »
two words: bassoon scholarship
if your kids are in sports just to be able to get a college scholarship, your chances are WAY better if you just have them learn to play the bassoon.  There are of course other benefits to sports, but there are also other benefits to music. so...

jeninco

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2018, 12:25:55 PM »
And it just seems like it would cut so much into our time as a family.  I'm not sure what I would do if one of my kids was really interested in doing sports (or any activity) at that level.

What, then, would you encourage your kids to do?  You would really discourage the intense pursuit of an activity your child was good at (be it sports, music, or whatever)? 

I don't look at travel sports as cutting into family time...I look at it as family time.

Yeah, as the kids get older they're going to pursue more of their own interests anyhow: driving the carpool (quietly, if you can stand it) is a great way to hear the kids talk among themselves about what they're interested in.

And sometimes you'll get a chance to help them figure out how to advocate for themselves: my then 13-year old's soccer carpool spent a drive figuring out how to ask the coach to deal with some thorny interpersonal issues. I coached them on both "compliment sandwiches" (say something positive, make the ask, say something positive) and how to be succinct in their request. The situation went really, really well, and as the kids become teens there are fewer opportunities to intervene this way.

Also, If you set if up correctly, you'll have a carpool so you drive at most one or two legs per week. Half your games should be home games, and by the time the kids are 11 or 12 they should be OK with carpooling to the away games at least part of the time. This does mean the kid will be away from you sometimes, but ... in the long run, you're helping them to grow up into independent adults. The reason for choosing a club with coaches you trust is because it gives the kids a chance to be more independent while still providing you with some comfort.

It seems like I'm really pro-traveling sports, which is weird -- in general, I believe these things should be genuinely kid-led. We've had very clear conversations with our kids about what their requirements look like in order to get our time and $. The easy example is the younger kid, who really, really wanted private music lessons. We told him he was responsible for practicing at least 5 hours/week, without being reminded or nagged: it has to be his thing. He's been really good about it for almost 4 years, because it's something that gives him joy and that he's excited about.  Same deal happens with team sports: you (the kid) have to commit to doing your part, whether that's practicing juggling a soccer ball, or going to the park and practicing shooting, or doing fitness training/sprints on your days off, or even participating (reasonably) gracefully in family activities on days when you don't have practices or games.

mxt0133

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2018, 12:29:49 PM »
I don't look at travel sports as cutting into family time...I look at it as family time.

My kids do not do travel teams, but at one point we were shuttling the kids to half a dozen activities a week that not all of them participated in.  We did our best to divide and conquer where one parent would take a child to their activity.  However, even that got too much for my wife and I. 

Traveling and then having the child focus on the activity is not something I would exactly call family time especially with the other kids are just dragged along.  Family time would be something everyone in the family all agreed to do and actually spend time together doing it.

What, then, would you encourage your kids to do?  You would really discourage the intense pursuit of an activity your child was good at (be it sports, music, or whatever)? 

I wouldn't discourage it per say but I would just be clear that if their pursuit of said activity is starting to impact other members of the family negatively, i.e. taking away significant time or financial resources from the rest of the family, then we would work with that child to minimize the impact and have them come up with creative solutions to be able to pursue said activity that works with everyone in the family.


Jouer

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2018, 12:35:28 PM »
So for soccer...

6200 scholarships, but 11 positions on a team.  To simplify things, I'm going to assume a soccer player can only get a scholarship in one position.  6,200/11 positions is 563 scholarships per position.  Let's also assume that most will come from the U.S., not internationally.  563/ 50 states is 11... so that tells me that to get a soccer scholarship at your position, you would probably have to be one of the top 11 players in your position, in your state.  I realize this analysis is simplistic for several reasons, but just trying to get  broad sense of what would be required.

Maybe this is my own rosy, newish dad naïveté talking, but with the proper time investment and training, as well as the right attitude and body type, it seems feasible for a kid that puts in the time and the effort to get a soccer scholarship.

Am I wrong? :)   

How many high schools in your state? That's an important piece of your math that you omitted.

Athletic scholarships don't come to those who just work hard and put in the effort. They are for the elite of the elite. Hard work alone ain't cutting it, even with your body type qualifier.

 

Lemonhead

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2018, 12:43:25 PM »
My kids were involved in many sports, dance and music at various levels.  In my area travel sports are very popular and there are so many teams it is essentially pay to play.  No matter the skill level you can find a team that needs more warm bodies.  What I did like about travel sports was they were way better organized than rec level sports.  I didn't like the elitism and the travel.  For the most part though the parents were better in travel sports than rec level.  The rec level parents didn't seem to have much control and were yelling at the refs and even the other players and that was at the elementary level!

Some of the best organized activities were catholic school sports which were from grades 4-8.  Kids usually stayed after school for practice twice a week, you knew all the other kids and parents on the team for ride sharing and although it was essentially a travel sport it was just to other catholic schools within 40 minutes drive. 

My favorite for the kids was summer swim team.  Son and daughter swam on same team and during the meets on a hot night husband and I could watch and cheer them on in the pool staying cool.  My 2 younger kids did high school sports teams, but travel sports for both ended by the end of 9th grade.  Took too much time and they had various other interests by then.  Depending on different school funding, 7-12 grade sports were anywhere from $35 per sport with $70 cap per kid to $500 per sport with no cap.

mak1277

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2018, 12:45:41 PM »
The other aspect of this discussion that people always seem to forget is that puberty has a massive impact on things.  The best kid on the team at age 8, 9, 10 might turn into a completely awkward second stringer once puberty hits.  Or maybe little Johnny is the first of his team to hit puberty, so you think he's amazing, but as soon as everyone else catches up, you realize that it was only timing that allowed him to excel. 

Once you're in 7th-9th grade, you can start getting serious thinking about scholarships, but to be hyper-focused on that with little kids is just an exercise in futility.

SimpleCycle

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2018, 12:48:58 PM »
And it just seems like it would cut so much into our time as a family.  I'm not sure what I would do if one of my kids was really interested in doing sports (or any activity) at that level.

What, then, would you encourage your kids to do?  You would really discourage the intense pursuit of an activity your child was good at (be it sports, music, or whatever)? 

I don't look at travel sports as cutting into family time...I look at it as family time.

Well, as I said, I'm not sure what I would do.  It depends on a lot of things, including how good they are at it, how passionate they are about it, and what level of commitment we're talking about.  I never said I would discourage them from pursuing something they were passionate about, just that it seemed unlikely they would lead me to traveling soccer on their own.

Supporting my kids without pushing them is one of my top parenting goals, and I recognize that at some point their passions may not be in line with mine.  But there is a big difference between supporting them in their passions and deciding when my kids are toddlers that they must do everything at the highest level available to them.  My goal is to raise happy children who become well rounded adults.  I personally think that can be accomplished with recreational sports and community center music lessons, but we'll see where life takes us.

jeninco

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2018, 01:25:27 PM »
And it just seems like it would cut so much into our time as a family.  I'm not sure what I would do if one of my kids was really interested in doing sports (or any activity) at that level.

What, then, would you encourage your kids to do?  You would really discourage the intense pursuit of an activity your child was good at (be it sports, music, or whatever)? 

I don't look at travel sports as cutting into family time...I look at it as family time.

Well, as I said, I'm not sure what I would do.  It depends on a lot of things, including how good they are at it, how passionate they are about it, and what level of commitment we're talking about.  I never said I would discourage them from pursuing something they were passionate about, just that it seemed unlikely they would lead me to traveling soccer on their own.

Supporting my kids without pushing them is one of my top parenting goals, and I recognize that at some point their passions may not be in line with mine.  But there is a big difference between supporting them in their passions and deciding when my kids are toddlers that they must do everything at the highest level available to them.  My goal is to raise happy children who become well rounded adults.  I personally think that can be accomplished with recreational sports and community center music lessons, but we'll see where life takes us.

If you do your best to follow your last paragraph, it'll be fine.  In fact, it's unlikely that they'll be able to do everything "at the highest level available to them", because there are just so many hours in the day. If they're going to do one or two things at the highest level (reasonably) possible, some other stuff's going to slip. And that's OK -- part of growing up is learning to allocate your time, energy, and money. (We're trying to convince our younger kid that it's OK to get a "B" this year, partly to ameliorate his general anxiety. Also, we'd rather he get the feeling for it now...)

So if a kid comes to you and really wants private music lessons, you can counter with "Ok, let's try 8 weeks, and we'll talk with the teacher about how much practicing from you is reasonable to expect." (Note that you may need to try more than one teacher to find a great fit.) If s/he is totally excited about gymnastics, you can investigate the options together. (Around here, many older teens partly offset team costs by helping coach younger kids.) If it's swimming, they can at least get Lifeguard and WSI certifications so they can make some $ in the seasons when they're not crazy busy. Soccer referees get paid really well, and you can start officiating little kid games at .. I forget, maybe age 12?

Mostly, though, I've found that the attitude of "I want them to grow into good adults" and trying to hold the long-term view (which can be really hard!) serves everyone in the household well.

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #46 on: July 30, 2018, 01:39:24 PM »
We have several friends whose children participate in traveling sports.  Starting at the age of 7 or 8, they spend weekends traveling to soccer, basketball, baseball, and hockey games.   It appears they are leveraging the cost now (sports participation fees, money for gas, and hotels) with a potential payoff later (most likely in the form of a college scholarship because we know the odds of "going pro" are low).  We have young children and are wondering what your thoughts are on traveling teams from a financial perspective.
My kids seem to be pretty smart.  As much as you can tell at 12 and 6.  12 yo considered gifted.  Of course, they have smart, UMC, engaged parents.

I am so so so happy that so far, they suck at sports.  I mean, not totally uncoordinated.  But just, not really into sports and not awesome at them.  Big kid played 3 years of baseball.  The awesome thing about starting at 9 is that you are old enough to like it, to listen, to learn to play.  But unless you are a natural athlete or really into it?  You aren't going to be good enough for the traveling/ all star teams.  I was just thrilled when he moved up to being 3rd or 4th from the bottom in the batting order.

We aren't a sports family.  Meaning: we don't watch sports.  We like to play some sports.  Spouse and I play volleyball (or used to, anyway).  He played tennis in HS.  We enjoyed playing catch, frisbee, the batting cages.  Big kid tested out soccer before baseball, and decided now going into JH that he's done.  Right now he's in volleyball camp (because I have an ulterior motive to be able to play again!)

6 yo doesn't have the attention span for sports yet.  One season of twirling around on the soccer field, one season of refusing to do any drills at intro baseball.  We are happy for them to learn and have the skills so they can play with their friends.

mm1970

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2018, 01:48:13 PM »
So for soccer...

6200 scholarships, but 11 positions on a team.  To simplify things, I'm going to assume a soccer player can only get a scholarship in one position.  6,200/11 positions is 563 scholarships per position.  Let's also assume that most will come from the U.S., not internationally.  563/ 50 states is 11... so that tells me that to get a soccer scholarship at your position, you would probably have to be one of the top 11 players in your position, in your state.  I realize this analysis is simplistic for several reasons, but just trying to get  broad sense of what would be required.

Maybe this is my own rosy, newish dad naïveté talking, but with the proper time investment and training, as well as the right attitude and body type, it seems feasible for a kid that puts in the time and the effort to get a soccer scholarship.

Am I wrong? :)   

Both my SIL and her daughter played soccer at a pretty high level.  Neither one ever got a scholarship.

It probably depends a lot on where you live and how many people you are competing with.  My niece maybe could have made the college team (Div II or III, not sure which), but opted to stick with club lacrosse instead, because she didn't like the new soccer coach (the prior coach recruited her, then retired).

My SIL (much older, obv) played Div III in college and has two national championships.  Still no soccer scholarships.

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #48 on: July 30, 2018, 08:23:21 PM »
I've got two kids, 17 and 14, who have both participated in serous-ish traveling teams: however, around here that means local-isn, so fall and spring seasons of 8-10 weeks when drives to weekend games rarely exceed 2 hours (and half the games are home games, so no driving). Neither kid made it onto the first team in his age group, although the older one is now one of the captains of his varsity team this year.

I'd say a couple of things:
1. The kid has to be interested, enthusiastic, and engaged in the activity. There was a lovely piece of advice floating someplace around to let you kid sample a whole range of things that might be appealing, and see if one of them is so inspiring TO HIM/HER that s/he wants to spend the time to achieve mastery.
2. There's often pretty decent instruction available for less then the scammy clubs.
3. Youth athletics can be a business. Comparison shop!
4. The most important thing is the coach/instructor. And that person's boss, and the head of the program. Is that person someone you want as a role model for your child? How are practices run? We've chosen some of our activities based mostly on the quality of the coach/teacher, and even if that's not something that the kid was totally fired up about, it generally ends well.
On the other hand, if the club is run by a bunch of coach-bros who are in it to make money, that'd be a good time to start sidling in the opposite direction...

Good luck!

Definitely this. Our kids are 11 & 12 & have been playing club (note, not travel) sports for a few years. One of the big reason was quality of the coaches, and that the local school teams are too competitive. (Really. So backwards, but their middle school has 1500 kids, 200 turn out for soccer & only 2 6th graders make the team.) I'd far prefer a school team with a short season, but that's not going to happen, at least for one kid. The boys play with their friends, the cost is expensive but not travel level expensive.

Pigeon

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Re: Traveling Teams
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2018, 07:12:47 AM »


What, then, would you encourage your kids to do?  You would really discourage the intense pursuit of an activity your child was good at (be it sports, music, or whatever)? 

I don't look at travel sports as cutting into family time...I look at it as family time.
My personal observation is that the travel sports are far more all consuming for families.

I had kids who were very into music, dance and theatre, among other things.  One of my kids is an accomplished violinist and played in a competitive regional youth orchestra.  It was all much easier and much more family friendly than what my siblings encountered with their kids' travel sports teams.  The sports teams seemed to take the attitude that this stuff should take priority over everything for the entire family, and would routinely schedule practices and events with little regard for holidays, religious holidays or spacing.  The attitudes of the coaches toward the families was not respectful.

The youth orchestra had the occasional out of town concert, but it was far less frequent and transportation was arranged.  It was time intensive for the kids, but didn't suck up every weekend.  We weren't out of town, either dragging our other kids reluctantly with us or one parent off somewhere frequently.  I have one sister who lives in the mountain west and her kids' travel lacrosse involved frequent air travel all over the place.  That, to me, is nuts.

We've spent a small fortune on music and voice lessons and instruments over the years, but it still wasn't as costly as the travel teams.  I'll admit to being very happy that my kids weren't interested in elite sports because team sports bore me out of my mind, so there's that.