Travel: the most difficult expense to trim while working...

[DryIceZ33]

In many ways, my wife and I have this mustachian lifestyle drilled...
-I changed jobs 6 months ago to a job I can walk to... cutting our gasoline consumption by >90%
-Sold my truck last week, now down to a single, paid-off vehicle that my wife and I share driving <1000 miles/mo
-Utility expenses <$100/mo
-groceries <$400/mo (ok, so we could improve a bit here, but we started at >$700)
-no debt other than 15 yr mortgage (3% interest)
-maxing both 401k's to the federal limit
-15% after-tax savings rate, split between mortgage/investments

However, we both really like to travel - and find that with both of us working, travel is a difficult expense category to optimize as limited number of vacation days usually means (expensive) air travel!  Our families are located on opposite sides of the country - and we like to visit each 2-3 times per year. We've also kept in touch with many friends from college that also live all over the country...   We also have a pretty long travel wish list, and rationalize that we need to travel as much as possible before having children, as starting a family will probably complicate things and limit our flexibility.

Are there any other travel addicts out there?  I'm curious how other people manage frequent travel with a limited vacation allotment.  We do try to minimize hotel costs by staying with family/friends or have them covered via frequent flyer miles/hotel points/other perks related to my wife's job in consulting, but even still, our travel expenses are usually as much as our mortgage payment every month.

[bacchi]

Can you travel closer, at least some of the time? Cut family visits to once/year each instead of 2-3/year?

In any case, start by getting some travel credit cards. You can easily get 100k miles each on the US Air ++ AA cards. Then get the Barclay's Arrival Plus card for $440, and then the Sapphire Preferred card for another $400. It sounds like your wife can easily hit the minimum spending required with her business travel.

Actually, if you can fly with Southwest on your family/friend visits, get the Southwest card and then get a companion pass.

[mbl]

Good suggestions above with regard to travel rewards on CCs.
I wouldn't worry too much regarding the amount you spend on travel to see family, friends and explore the world while you're young.
You seem to have a good handle on your finances.

Keep in mind that balance is important in life.
You're not guaranteed to have opportunities later that you might have now.

Weigh your travel choices based on what is most important to you and your wife.

It doesn't have to be an all or nothing approach.

You're doing great.

[choppingwood]

I'd go through every travel expense individually and see what you could do differently. For example:

Friends of mine have a deal with the neighbours on their block to drive each other to and from the airport. (They also watch each other's houses.) So no one on the block pays for airport parking or taxis.

Skip the options you pay for on your flight. My last trip the airline sent me an e-mail saying that I needed to bring my own viewing device to watch or listen to the entertainment, or they might be able to rent me an IPAD for $10 each way. I brought a book from my second-hand book supply stream.

Take public transit or cheap shuttles to get to and from the airport where you are going.

Look at B&Bs. They are often in beautiful homes in really nice areas, there are interesting people, and fabulous breakfasts. They are always cheaper than hotels.

Look at house or apt rentals. (VRBO or airbnb) Then make your own breakfast and some of your other meals. I find I get a better sense of where I am travelling to than when I am shut away in a hotel. I look for places with gardens when the season or climate warrants it.

Take public transit to travel around once you are there.

The single biggest thing I've done to reduce travel expenses is to cut out most short trips. I continued to see close family while they were alive, though that doesn't have to be that often. (A good phone bundle kept me in touch.) I continue to make occasional visits to good friends (as long as they visit me too or have a really good reason for not doing so). I also go camping. But I stopped the trips that had me fly to interesting places for a few days. I used airline points for the airfare, but there would be an awful lot of other spending happen that was triggered by being there. I put most of my travel money into a major trips every three years. It sounds like not much travel, but over the years you would be amazed at how many places you get to. But do the active travelling early.

[Bob W]

Can you travel closer, at least some of the time? Cut family visits to once/year each instead of 2-3/year?

In any case, start by getting some travel credit cards. You can easily get 100k miles each on the US Air ++ AA cards. Then get the Barclay's Arrival Plus card for $440, and then the Sapphire Preferred card for another $400. It sounds like your wife can easily hit the minimum spending required with her business travel.

Actually, if you can fly with Southwest on your family/friend visits, get the Southwest card and then get a companion pass.

This --- I just finished the travel hacking course with Bran and Alexi.  Awesome!   You can find them at richmondsavers.com or milesdividendmd.com. 

[Retired To Win]

... I wouldn't worry too much regarding the amount you spend on travel to see family, friends and explore the world while you're young... Keep in mind that balance is important in life...It doesn't have to be an all or nothing approach...

While all of the above is technically true, it also needs to be put in the context of the OP's FIRE goals and plan.  How many more years before he and his wife can FIRE, when they factor in their present travel expenses?  How many fewer years to get there without the travel?  With half the travel?

To really come to peace with the travel expenses, the OP also has to come to peace with his projected wait to reach FIRE.  And that is where achieving a balance is most important (IMHO).

[GizmoTX]

Be careful that you are not trading a lot of your time for trying to save money, since your vacation days & holidays are limited. For example, we always shop for a nonstop flight unless there is no other way to get where we're going; not only does ground time between stops add a lot of time, you could end up stuck someplace due to weather or mechanical problems. Try to always take carry-on rather than checking to save still more time, not to mention checked bag fees. If your carry-on must go overhead, try to be an early boarder according to what the airline does so your bag won't have to be gate checked. Spirit is an economical airline if its limited nonstop schedule works for you; we avoid all its extra fees by each taking one carry-on piece that fits under the seat (measure it -- Spirit dimensions are weird), not choosing a seat (we don't care where for a few hours but Spirit has always put us together), & printing the boarding pass before getting to the airport.

Waiting to travel until after FIRE is a mistake if you then can't do it for health reasons or if the people you wanted to see have died. There are experiences that are appropriate for each age in our lives -- we can't go back in time.   

[MLKnits]

Be careful that you are not trading a lot of your time for trying to save money, since your vacation days & holidays are limited. For example, we always shop for a nonstop flight unless there is no other way to get where we're going; not only does ground time between stops add a lot of time, you could end up stuck someplace due to weather or mechanical problems. Try to always take carry-on rather than checking to save still more time, not to mention checked bag fees. If your carry-on must go overhead, try to be an early boarder according to what the airline does so your bag won't have to be gate checked. Spirit is an economical airline if its limited nonstop schedule works for you; we avoid all its extra fees by each taking one carry-on piece that fits under the seat (measure it -- Spirit dimensions are weird), not choosing a seat (we don't care where for a few hours but Spirit has always put us together), & printing the boarding pass before getting to the airport.

Waiting to travel until after FIRE is a mistake if you then can't do it for health reasons or if the people you wanted to see have died. There are experiences that are appropriate for each age in our lives -- we can't go back in time.

These are all of my suggestions in nice easy typed-up-by-someone-else form! ;) Except I'm always thrilled to gate-check--I pack so that my carry-on can safely be tossed around, smushed, contains nothing valuable, etc, which means all I have to navigate is my purse and coat. Much nicer that way, and no fees! I've rarely waited more than a few minutes to retrieve a gate-checked bag, though I wouldn't gate-check to a tight connection just in case.

Travel to see people can't be put off; people don't, sadly, last forever, and I don't even just mean that they die eventually. Relationships change. We all have fond and treasured memories of people who later drifted out of our lives. If you put off those experiences, you'll get the drift and none of the memories.

I just spent a weekend with a bunch of friends, and it wasn't the most mustachian (though not the worst--shared hotel room, bought some groceries rather than eating every meal out, one bottle of liquor vs. hitting the bar), but I'm going to treasure those memories to my deathbed, just like the last two weekends I spent with them.

That said, many places DO last and will be largely unchanged in ten or thirty years, so if you want to postpone some travel or cut some corners, I'd say postpone the tourism and explore your own city/state.

[I'm a red panda]

I disagree that it is the most difficult expense to trim.  I mean, you could just not travel. Trimmed, done.

It's just that YOU personally value travel. So if you valued eating out, then you could be just as likely to say it is difficult to trim eating out.

Me, personally, I have no interest in trimming travel. I'd rather travel now than retire sooner.  But I often select destinations based on price, or go somewhere else because flights are more expensive.  I also travel in the off-seasons to get better deals. I don't mind staying in less fancy accommodations so that I can go more places. 

[GizmoTX]

We always put essential or valuable items like a tablet and/or laptop, medications, noise-cancelling headset, reading material, & comfort items for the flight in either a small bag that goes under the seat or a travel vest. They're handy, & then it doesn't matter if the carryon that must go overhead gets gate checked.

[Eric]

I disagree that it is the most difficult expense to trim.  I mean, you could just not travel. Trimmed, done.

Ha!  Yes, it really is that simple.  However, it appears that you value travel (me too) and therefore shouldn't feel bad spending money to accomplish it.  I think the real answer is to travel the same amount but work on the CC bonuses that are easily attainable to offset some of the cost.

[mskyle]

I agree that travel for travel's sake is pretty much the most flexible thing in my budget... I can spend a week's vacation a few hours drive from home or thousands of miles away. I often choose to spend a lot more than the minimum, because I love going to new places. But I can have a pretty great vacation just backpacking in the woods a few hours from my home, and that's almost free once you've got the gear.

If you have a lot of places you want to visit and can be somewhat flexible about when you go, keep an eye out for mistake fares. I bought (one-way, admittedly) tickets from New York to Vietnam for $250 last year. We ended up getting off at the first layover (in Rome) and flying home by taking RyanAir to Dublin and then using frequent flyer miles from my British Airways Visa card (almost all from a signup bonus). It was still pricey, but we had a lot of flexibility in how much we spent.

[mm1970]

In many ways, my wife and I have this mustachian lifestyle drilled...
-I changed jobs 6 months ago to a job I can walk to... cutting our gasoline consumption by >90%
-Sold my truck last week, now down to a single, paid-off vehicle that my wife and I share driving <1000 miles/mo
-Utility expenses <$100/mo
-groceries <$400/mo (ok, so we could improve a bit here, but we started at >$700)
-no debt other than 15 yr mortgage (3% interest)
-maxing both 401k's to the federal limit
-15% after-tax savings rate, split between mortgage/investments

However, we both really like to travel - and find that with both of us working, travel is a difficult expense category to optimize as limited number of vacation days usually means (expensive) air travel!  Our families are located on opposite sides of the country - and we like to visit each 2-3 times per year. We've also kept in touch with many friends from college that also live all over the country...   We also have a pretty long travel wish list, and rationalize that we need to travel as much as possible before having children, as starting a family will probably complicate things and limit our flexibility.

Are there any other travel addicts out there?  I'm curious how other people manage frequent travel with a limited vacation allotment.  We do try to minimize hotel costs by staying with family/friends or have them covered via frequent flyer miles/hotel points/other perks related to my wife's job in consulting, but even still, our travel expenses are usually as much as our mortgage payment every month.

have kids (only partially kidding)
traveling with infants and toddlers sucks!! 

Really, pre-kid, we visited our families on opposite coast 1x a year each (so two separate flights/ trips), and usually went on a vacation besides (fly or long driving trip).

Post-kid, and now on the school schedule, it's way different.  I recently met someone locally who travels to visit family on the opposite coast 2x a year EACH (so 4 trips).  They couldn't BELIEVE that we go once every 2 years.  And now we see both, which means fly into the Burgh, drive to my family, stay 5-7 days, rent a car and drive 8 hours, stay with his family 5-7 days, fly home from the nearest airport.

But when it comes to family, planes go both ways.  When my mom was alive, I flew her out annually (one ticket, mid-week, any schedule/ non holidays = cheap.  3-4 tickets on school holidays?  not cheap).  We still pay to fly out my MIL (well, we buy her a southwest gift card every couple of years).  NONE of my siblings have visited me (and I've offered to buy a ticket for my favorite sister - her son came to visit me!!), and my spouse's sister and her family come out about every 4 years.

I used to love traveling, but again, with kids, it's painful.  So now we do "staycations", or camping trips, or driving trips.  Because really, when you are traveling with a toddler it's a "trip", not a vacation.

I'm not saying to stop traveling at all - but you can probably find ways to make it cheaper.  Our travel costs this year will be pretty small:
Spring break:
2 nights camping $50
Gas: $70
2 nights in a nice resort (I'm over motel 6!): $380 (pool, water slides, this is a "villa" with a full kitchen)
Food: one meal each way: $40
Entertainment: zoo: $50
Total: $590

Summer trip home:
4 plane tickets (used miles, some fees): $200
one-way rental car: $60
parking: $90
full-week rental car: $130
Total: $540

Probably the cheapest year yet.  But we may do something over Thanksgiving.  Too soon to plan that.

So, I'd say - get good at travel points, use those.  I know you love your family, but I'd probably start cutting back on those trips (2-3 each?  Maybe 1-2 each?) But that's because I'd rather use my vacation to go to new places.  Pre-kid we also enjoyed visiting friends - weddings in NY and CO, friends in NM, friends in the Bay Area, wedding in NC, a family vacation in Myrtle Beach (we live in So Cal).  A couple of trips to Denmark to visit family/ friends.

My biggest tip is the expensive trips - you know, Europe, Africa, Australia, whatever - price them out and go during off season.  Take it from someone on the school schedule - prices literally double, or more, during Thanksgiving, Christmas, Spring Break, and Summer vacation.  If you can go in February, May, September, October?  You can do WAY more for WAY less.

Trust me, after the kids come, you'll probably want to cut back (although for us it really happened more after the second kid.  Our kid #1 flew 5 times before he was 1.5.)  But for now, travel hacks!!

[SilveradoBojangles]

Without a doubt our biggest non-housing expense is travel (we budget $500/month). We have more flexibility than you do regarding time (as we can work from home frequently), but here are some things we've done to reduce our travel expenses. On our budget this year we have spent/will be spending 4 days in palm springs, 5 days in seattle, 9 days camping/visting fam in the Pacific North West, 1 month in Europe, and a week camping/attending a wedding in Colorado.

• Use airline miles, both via credit cards and being loyal to a single airline (which is easier with work travel). We went to Vietnam 2 years ago using miles, spent 2 weeks there, and spent around $600 for the whole trip. If travel is important to you, do the research to figure out how to both acquire and use your miles, especially if you can only travel at peak times.
• Couple fun travel with work travel. When my partner or I travels for work, we usually extend the trip a bit, and go with. You get a vacation for half the airfare cost.
• I second what others have said about airbnb. We look for places with kitchen access, which allows us to cook while away rather than having to go out.
• Use google flights to find the best airfares, and track itineraries using a combination of google flights and the google now app.
• Investigate flexibility from your work. Any chance you can work a day or two "from home"? This may allow you to fly home on a Tuesday rather than be wedded to the peak Friday/Sunday travel times, especially when staying with friends/family who don't mind if you stay an extra day or two and work.
• Enlist friends to travel with you and split rental house/car costs.
• Always travel carry-on (we do it even for a month of travel), and make food to take with you on the plane.

I spend a considerable amount of time searching for and tracking flights, finding good but affordable airbnbs, researching public transpo options, thinking up meals we can cook with limited supplies in a rental kitchen, etc. It takes time, but it's worth it if you love to travel.

[SK Joyous]

Good suggestions above with regard to travel rewards on CCs.
I wouldn't worry too much regarding the amount you spend on travel to see family, friends and explore the world while you're young.
You seem to have a good handle on your finances.

Keep in mind that balance is important in life.
You're not guaranteed to have opportunities later that you might have now.

Weigh your travel choices based on what is most important to you and your wife.

It doesn't have to be an all or nothing approach.

You're doing great.

+1

[kpd905]

We've gotten about $6000/year in redemptions from rewards credit cards.  This should be enough for you to cover most of your travel needs if not all.

I'd say $2000 per person per year in flights, hotel stays and statement credits would be very easy, with $3000 per person requiring a bit more work and research.

[milesdividendmd]

As Bob W kindly mentioned above Brad Barret and I have designed a month long free online travel hacking course for Mustachians.

This is a course that should give you all of the skills necessary to  almost completely erase your travel bills and to travel more.

Based on your question you are pretty much the target demographic for our course.

As an example of the power of this approach I am flying my family of 5 to Japan this summer on JAL business class for 400 bucks.

It's a free course so not much to lose. If you're interested you can enroll here.

http://www.travelmiles101.com/travel-rewards-course-registration

If you have any further questions feel free to PM me.

[LiveLean]

Since you don't have kids, I wouldn't cut your travel budget at all. In fact, I'd spend more -- enjoy some of that MMM savings you've compiled. Take the bucket-list, out-of-the-country trips now. They're not going to happen when you have kids. I used to travel 50-60 percent of the time for work (pre-kids) and racked up a ton of airline and Marriott miles for free travel, later used for Australia, Europe, Hawaii, etc. Admittedly, it's much harder to use those miles/points now.

Sounds like your bigger issue is time. A little off topic, but one thing my wife did when she decided to go back to work when our kids were 7 and 5 (in large part to expedite FIRE) was to choose a new career -- teaching profession -- where she'd be off when the kids are off. Thus we're able to travel much of the summer. (I can work anywhere). Something to think of for your long-term planning.

[Cougar]

I disagree that it is the most difficult expense to trim.  I mean, you could just not travel. Trimmed, done.

It's just that YOU personally value travel. So if you valued eating out, then you could be just as likely to say it is difficult to trim eating out.

Me, personally, I have no interest in trimming travel. I'd rather travel now than retire sooner.  But I often select destinations based on price, or go somewhere else because flights are more expensive.  I also travel in the off-seasons to get better deals. I don't mind staying in less fancy accommodations so that I can go more places.

second that.

i liked to travel for a while but found i could do other things much much cheaper and have my savings accrue at a much greater rate.

now my pile of money just gets bigger and bigger and my gas tank doesnt go to empty 1/2 as much as it used to.

[Retire-Canada]

Are there any other travel addicts out there?  I'm curious how other people manage frequent travel with a limited vacation allotment.  We do try to minimize hotel costs by staying with family/friends or have them covered via frequent flyer miles/hotel points/other perks related to my wife's job in consulting, but even still, our travel expenses are usually as much as our mortgage payment every month.

Travel and sports equipment is 25% of my budget. Mortgage is 25%.

I love to travel and do my sports - often we travel for sports. That's what my life is about and don't regret spending $$ on those items for one second.

As I take more and more time off I'll travel for longer each year, but it's easier [as you note] to reduce costs with the luxury of time. I don't expect my travel costs to go up.

-- Vik

[Mrs. Frugalwoods]

I disagree that it is the most difficult expense to trim.  I mean, you could just not travel. Trimmed, done.

Ha!  Yes, it really is that simple.  However, it appears that you value travel (me too) and therefore shouldn't feel bad spending money to accomplish it.  I think the real answer is to travel the same amount but work on the CC bonuses that are easily attainable to offset some of the cost.

+1. We love to travel too and we prioritize it in our spending. No reason to avoid it if you enjoy it!

Rewards cards are a great idea. Also, we travel at unusual times (never at holidays). For example, we flew from Boston (where we live) to San Diego (where my family lives) in January for $216 per person round-trip. Ridiculously cheap as compared with the $800+ flights the week of Christmas.

[milesdividendmd]

Travel is smart. For many, including me, it is happiness inducing and eye opening.

Free travel is even smarter (if you like to travel). You get all of the benefits of travel without the nasty downside of leveraging your future.

[DryIceZ33]

Thanks to all for the feedback!  First of all, this quote by mm1970 is hilarious, but likely true!  My wife and I realize that our air travel will likely face a drastic cutback once we decide to start a family... just different priorities once kids enter the equation.

have kids (only partially kidding)
traveling with infants and toddlers sucks!! 

And to iowajes's point, below, this is true.  I could just not travel, however it's my highest spending priority bringing the most happiness per dollar spent for me aside from the obvious basic necessities.   So it's more that it's the most difficult to trim given my personal values right now...  I've accepted the fact that I'll have to work full-time longer in order to have life experiences now that I may not have the opportunity to take later, but I'd like to do it in the most optimal way possible. 

I disagree that it is the most difficult expense to trim.  I mean, you could just not travel. Trimmed, done.

It's just that YOU personally value travel. So if you valued eating out, then you could be just as likely to say it is difficult to trim eating out.

And as far as the most optimal way possible, it looks like I'm going to have to check out travel rewards.  I've traditionally just used a straight cash-back card that pays 1.75% on everything and 5.25% on rotating categories (it's the not-very-well advertised Bank of America Privileges card which requires you to have at least 100k in assets with BOA/Merrill).  I had thought this was pretty good, but it looks like since I have a near perfect credit rating and no need to use it, then taking advantage of travel reward credit card sign-up bonuses may be the way to go.  I'm reading up on the cards and signed-up for the Travel Miles 101 course, so thanks for the info there.

Also, I haven't previously considered the savings possibilities of scheduling travel on non-peak days of the week- my wife and I both have some work-from-home flexibility, so I'm going to look into this some more as we book future trips.  Overall, lots of good tips here.  I'll have to keep re-reading this thread as a book future travel!

[spokey doke]

I know, and am glad that, not everyone digs this, but our main 'travel'/recreation saves us money and adds to our health quite a bit - backpacking. 

Living in the Rockies, we drive a few hours to one of the many, many amazing wilderness areas or national parks, park the car and go see incredible lands, unplug, and get great exercise, while spending no money while we are out on the trail.  Trail food is cheap and gear typically lasts quite a while.

When that becomes less fun, then I'll take the travel hacking course...

[milesdividendmd]

Spokey doke, your approach sounds perfect.   I dig it!

Our course will be there for you if and when airline travel becomes a goal worth pursuing.

[arebelspy]

As an example of the power of this approach I am flying my family of 5 to Japan this summer on JAL business class for 400 bucks.

How many miles?

My sister-in-law emailed Brad about his free coaching and I guess it was going to take 140k miles for two of them to Japan this summer (from the West Coast), but then he didn't reply again for a week or two so she still hasn't booked so I'm not sure if that was the final conclusion.

So are you spending like 350k miles for that?

[milesdividendmd]

ARS, Try 500K for the 5 of us!

As you probably know my general philosophy is to "churn, earn, and burn" lots of miles.

So I spent this impressive amount on business class for my whole Family simply because I could do so without jeopardizing my ability to buy my next trip with miles.

Not exactly Mustachian, I know.

Brad is a real genius when it comes to extracting the most value out of each mile, so I am sure he can help your sister-in-law get the most out of her miles better than I ever can!

AZ

[arebelspy]

ARS, Try 500K for the 5 of us!

Wow!  You earn them even faster than I thought. Impressive!

[milesdividendmd]

Loyalty currency is as inflationary as it gets.

Though I am very cautious with real world spending, I am truly a spendthrift when it comes to miles!

Kind of a Jekyll and Hyde scenario, but it works for me.

[Retired To Win]

I agree that travel for travel's sake is pretty much the most flexible thing in my budget... I can spend a week's vacation a few hours drive from home or thousands of miles away. I often choose to spend a lot more than the minimum, because I love going to new places. But I can have a pretty great vacation just backpacking in the woods a few hours from my home, and that's almost free once you've got the gear...

That's a great point.  It's not just the travel.  It's where you travel to and how you do the travel that really determines how much financial impact the travel actually has on your more longterm financial plans (like getting to FIRE).

I do travel, but I too choose to do it as frugally as possible.  And hiking, national and state parks, museums and natural attractions all play a big part in where I choose to go.  As does how far -- and by what transport means -- I would have to go.

[Melody]

Sign up to all the airline mailing lists and pounce when your destinations are on sale. I have found staying with family/friends to be very affordable. I planned my last trip to sydney really well and spent less than $180 excluding flights for the whole four days ($65 of this was trains and taxis to and from the airport, and the reaminder was dining out and food which i would spend close to this on a typical weekend  anyway).

[Retired To Win]

What about Expedia and the other discount travel websites?

In my limited experience with booking motels, they have not been very helpful.

Comments?