travel sports/clubs and fund raisers for kids

[clarkfan1979]

I'm 40 years old and many of my friends have kids in the 5-15 age range. We are in our life stage in which we are getting many requests to give to kids activities in the form of fund raisers. We make around 80K/year gross (before taxes). Our total gifting budget used to be around $150/month or $1,800/year. However, the last couple of years it is probably closer to $2,500-$3,000. My wife is a peace maker and just writes a check.

Anyone care to share their giving budget?

This isn't life changing money, but we do get a large amount of requests and I'm trying to come up with some sort of system to deal with them all.

Right now, we seem to get 2-3 personal requests/month. This month we received two specific requests. One, travel softball for a 7th grader. They do not fly anywhere, but they drive up to 5 hours and stay in hotels. Two, a trip to New York City to perform for school choir for another 7th grader.

I played local sports as a kid. I love the idea of buying equipment for kids who might not have the money. However, I have a completely different attitude for travel sports. If a parent wants to fund their own kid to play travel sports, I think that is great. However, asking other parents to fund their kids hobbies seems weird.

I'm torn on the New York City choir trip. My biggest issue is that her parents make a ton of money combined. The choir student has two sets of parents via divorce. One set makes around 200K to 250K and they sent the email request asking family to give. The other set of parents make 300K to 400K and did not ask for anything. If they want their kid to go to NYC shouldn't they just write a check? Is a fund raiser really necessary? Am I being too judgmental because her parents make 500K to 750K combined? Maybe that shouldn't matter.

None of this includes gofundme pages for adults. That is a completely separate issue for me.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

My kids play club soccer (we have opted to keep them out of travel teams, btw). If the club soccer fees became high enough that we couldn't pay, they would find another activity or pick up a part time job. We would never ask for donations. We do donate to our club's scholarship fee, which helps kids who otherwise wouldn't have a shot (and are deemed very low income) to play.

[scissorbill]

I have kids that do fundraising.  My personal policy is that I don't ask at work and when someone asks me at work I don't give.  I can usually dodge the sale without looking like a cheapskate.  For my kids I just end up paying their way if it's something they want to attend.  Our church does dinner type fundraisers where the kids get credit for hours worked and the proceeds are split between the workers, it's usually very lucrative. 

I'm kind of a sucker for kids knocking at my door and asking though but fortunately that rarely happens.  I also usually don't want their trinket so I'll just offer about half the price in cash towards their goal. 

[clarkfan1979]

My kids play club soccer (we have opted to keep them out of travel teams, btw). If the club soccer fees became high enough that we couldn't pay, they would find another activity or pick up a part time job. We would never ask for donations. We do donate to our club's scholarship fee, which helps kids who otherwise wouldn't have a shot (and are deemed very low income) to play.

Thanks for sharing. Your story seems like common sense to me. I love the idea of parents funding sports for kids. My parents did it for me and I can't wait to do it for my own kid(s). I currently have one son who is almost 3 years old. I also love the idea of donating to a general fund for local sports for low income kids. I will probably start doing that when my son starts playing baseball or soccer in 2 years.

When it comes to travel sports, it is a mixed bag for me. If a parent wants to spend the money and time for travel sports, I think that is great. However, I do not love the idea of parents asking friends and family to donate to their kids travel team so their 9 year old can stay in hotels on the weekends during the summer months.

[Jouer]

I grew up poor. Fundraising (+ a great program where parents could volunteer for reduced fees) is the only way I could have played.

As such, I'm buying if kids are selling. If a kid comes to my door selling chocolate bars, etc, I'm in for 10 bucks worth. If there is a box of bars in the servery at work with a note, I'm in for a single bar. (i.e. I'll buy more if directly from the kid, who is learning a lot of life lessons). If they are selling something I don't want, I'll donate $$ instead.

*I sold everything when I was a kid but I have especially great memories of selling chocolate covered almonds at school. Open a box for myself just before recess when kids were starting to get hungry. If someone asked, they could have one piece. But if they asked again, they had to buy their own box. It was important to sell before they spent their money on lunch. Ethical? Nope. But they were all richer than me so I didn't care.

[erutio]

When I first clicked on your post, I thought it would be for school fundraisers for programs or enrichment activities your kids or their classmates are involved in.  In general, I try to contribute to those, within reason and within budget, because if everyone chips in it helps a group of kids.

However, I read your post, and understand that these are "fundraisers" for individual kids and for single, one-off events? Again, maybe, for the right situation, but for your examples: 

.. asking other parents to fund their kids hobbies seems weird...

No, parents asking funds for travel softball are weird?  That's straight up rude and selfish.  That's a hard no for me.

I'm torn on the New York City choir trip. My biggest issue is that her parents make a ton of money combined. The choir student has two sets of parents via divorce. One set makes around 200K to 250K and they sent the email request asking family to give. The other set of parents make 300K to 400K and did not ask for anything. If they want their kid to go to NYC shouldn't they just write a check? Is a fund raiser really necessary? Am I being too judgmental because her parents make 500K to 750K combined? Maybe that shouldn't matter.

That's a hell no.  They (the parents) can go F themselves.

[ixtap]

I have relatives that have a good deal for this: the local semi pro sports arena has a deal with the local clubs so that parents and teenagers can work the concessions for club credits. I don't understand exactly how they fit it in with all the travel for multiple kids now, but it was working well for them last I heard.

[StacheDash]

My “giving” budget is pretty high for these forums given my income, but buying from kids fundraisers doesn’t come out of that budget.

My general rules are:
1. The kid has to ask me directly, and tell me what they are fundraising for.
2. I buy something cheap, usually less than $20.

I try to give $100 to causes I prioritize if I’m giving to something outside of my normal giving. It can be lower for causes that aren’t priorities.

[erutio]

Wait, is this the kids asking or the parents?  If it's the kids, my earlier response was a bit crass. 

If it's the parents asking, then I stand by my earlier comments.

[ericrugiero]

I generally give for most fund raisers just to keep from making waves.  But, it's typically not for travel teams or anything excessive.  I'll give two examples of things I've said no to in the past:

I work with a lady who is CONSTANTLY selling something for girl scouts.  I don't mind buying a couple boxes of cookies a year but she is asking on more of a monthly basis.  I've made a couple comments and dialed it back from saying yes every time to just a couple times a year. 

One guy at work frequently has raffles for a gun or other item.  My problem with this is he isn't doing it for charity, he is doing it for himself.  That's a hard no.  I'll play in a raffle if it's a cause I would be happy to donate to.  His pocket book isn't one of those causes. 

[J.R. Ewing]

"I'll pay for your kids travel sports, if you help pay for me the the old lady's trip to Cabo.  No?  Okay then"

You're right Clark fan.  It's weird that well off people are asking you contribute to their kids expensive sports.

[Boofinator]

Yeah, no. Travel sports is a luxury. Can't afford it, don't do it. Neighborhood little league is probably worth contributing to.

Personal anecdote: Back in the day, our 8 year old did BMX for about a year. He was a pretty decent athlete, but always got creamed by this one kid. I spoke with the kid's dad one day (nice guy), turns out this kid was ranked #1 nationally for 8 year olds. Which sounds great, but it turns out they were travelling all over the U.S. in order to compete (and they weren't loaded with cash). He didn't ask for money (and I wouldn't have given if asked). One day not too long after, the dad committed suicide. I couldn't help but think that the strain he put himself under to achieve this goal was more than the worth of that #1 ranking.

[Adam Zapple]

I am involved with the board of directors for our city's girls softball program.  Unfortunately, there are groups of parents who believe there is no cost too great when it comes to their little one's sports development.  These parents tend to be the loudest and pushiest and tend to drive up costs for everyone involved.  It is a constant battle. 

Personally, I give to coworkers kids and hope they give in return to my kids.  I don't ask childless coworkers unless we are selling something that I feel they might get some value from (girl scout cookies, coupon books etc).  To the OP, I would suggest finding a way to give that you control, such as a large yearly donation to only one sports program per year and then tell people this when you decline to donate to their fundraiser.  I don't believe in giving to travel sports programs myself unless they are going to a state or national tournament representing our city or state.

[Laura33]

I'm torn on the New York City choir trip. My biggest issue is that her parents make a ton of money combined. The choir student has two sets of parents via divorce. One set makes around 200K to 250K and they sent the email request asking family to give. The other set of parents make 300K to 400K and did not ask for anything. If they want their kid to go to NYC shouldn't they just write a check? Is a fund raiser really necessary? Am I being too judgmental because her parents make 500K to 750K combined? Maybe that shouldn't matter.

So are the parents asking, or is the kid asking?  I think that makes a difference.  If the parents are asking, that's a hard no.  But if the kid's asking, I'm going to consider it.  We are in the fortunate position of being able to afford to send our kids on these kinds of things if we want to.  But I also didn't didn't grow up with that kind of money, so it was important to me that my kids didn't just assume they got all those fancy extras, or that that was "normal" in any way.  So when my DD had the opportunity to go on a summer band trip, I agreed to pay the basic fees, but only if she earned the @$600-700 they required for group lunches and spending money and stuff.  We didn't need the money, but she needed the lesson to work for what you want.*

Personally, I hate those organized fundraisers, because they sell crap and put way more money in the pockets of the fundraising company (if I want to give, I just write a check to the school/club).  But if the parents decided to make their kid "earn" their way onto the trip by selling that crap, then I'm probably going to give some sort of token support.

*I will admit, when my kids start to get a little entitled and mention the money "we" have, I've been known to say "I make a lot of money.  You're broke."  ;-)

[Pigeon]

"No, thanks," is a complete sentence.  I contribute to many charities and youth organizations, but this is something I don't feel obligated to do in the least.

I didn't let my kids do fundraisers and never felt guilty not contributing to other people's.  For my kids, I sent the organization a check.   I thought it was kind of awful that companies that make money off these fundraisers use kids as an unpaid salesforce for their giftwrap, cookie dough, etc.  I also think it's a lot of busywork.  In our case, it was a lot of work trying to get the same amount of money out of the same group of people.  I remember having an argument with one of the pro-fundraiser types, who wanted the parents to supply items for a raffle, when it would be 90% of the same parents buying the raffle tickets.  How about we all just give you the money and save everyone time and effort.

It's surprising how some organizations will push back on this in funny ways.  When my kids were in elementary school, I'd write the PTA a honking big check every year at Back to School Night in lieu of participating in any of this stuff for a year.  I had one PTA person basically try to force me to take a few rolls of $15 wrapping paper and chase after me when I didn't.

[elaine amj]

It's a tough one for me. I have a hard time saying no although I really don't want to be funding other people's kids and their experiences.

Then it comes to my kids. I have occasionally let them sell stuff or ask for donations. But 80% of the time. I just pay. My son just got involved in a competitive breakdancing team and the kids had to sell raffle tickets. We bought it all - something like $200-300 in raffle tickets? Pretty sure there are more costs to come - haven't bought costumes yet though (just bought the $70 Chucks that are required). I imagine then there is hotels, food, activities, etc.

Ugh - just tell me the total cost, let me pay it and then I can forget about it.

DH was a bit horrified - we both thought it was just an after school club thing - didn't realize this was a hyper competitive team that won the championships last year.

Oh well - DS enjoys it overall although not as crazy about the intense time consuming practice. Just as well he learns that being the best means hours and hours and hours of practice. Not something I expect other people to fund though.

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[mm1970]

I don't really have a method, per se.  It really really depends on my mood on any given day.

For example, I don't like to buy crap.  I like wrapping paper, and I'll buy that.  But I'm not going to buy cookies or plastic toys or things.  If they are selling those things, then no.

Occasionally, if it's a raffle ticket, I'll buy it - if it is for something that I want to win.

Jog-a-thons, sure I will throw a few bucks to the people who also donate to my kids.

For the most part, I'm more likely to donate to friends who make less money than I do.  Less likely to families who are at my income or above.

One year, I made the executive decision to make my "giving" for the year be $20 to everyone who asked.  That was easy actually.  (It could be $5.)


The only fundraisers I've taken part in for my kids are the local discount book sales (which everyone likes), jog-a-thon (we always pledge $5 a lap), and raffle tickets (where I just buy them all and put our or our nieces and nephews names on them).

[Car Jack]

We only gave to my own kids' teams when they were in the sport or activity, period.  They're both in college now, so are doing none of that.  Our annual budget for this nonsense is zero.  If the parents down the street want someone to pay for their 6 year old to go to the class E T-ball tournament in Hawaii, they can pay their own way.

[Cassie]

If a kid comes to the door selling something for a fundraiser I will buy if not more than 20. Probably happened once a year. When I worked I only bought if it was something I actually wanted like mint GS cookies. Otherwise the answer is no.

[therethere]

You sound like you've got a grabby bunch of friends. I don't see how this is any different than a gofundme for "random thing someone didn't plan/save for". If parents want the kids to do something that costs money they have to pay for it. The only case I would consider would be if the family was low income and the kid was exceptional in something useful. From your post it sounds like the parents are sending emails to their friends/family soliciting donations for general travel sports competitions. Man, the entitlement is strong these days.... I would not only ignore the request but try to distance myself from the people making them. If they ask once and people give them money, they are going to ask again, and again. It is not going to be a one time deal.

This is not a gift. Or even charity. I'm surprised you're so calm about it actually. It would tick me off to no end.

[Pigeon]

You sound like you've got a grabby bunch of friends. I don't see how this is any different than a gofundme for "random thing someone didn't plan/save for". If parents want the kids to do something that costs money they have to pay for it. The only case I would consider would be if the family was low income and the kid was exceptional in something useful. From your post it sounds like the parents are sending emails to their friends/family soliciting donations for general travel sports competitions. Man, the entitlement is strong these days.... I would not only ignore the request but try to distance myself from the people making them. If they ask once and people give them money, they are going to ask again, and again. It is not going to be a one time deal.

This is not a gift. Or even charity. I'm surprised you're so calm about it actually. It would tick me off to no end.

As I posted above, I have no problem saying no, and didn't let my kids do fundraisers.

However, I disagree with the idea that the friends are entitled jerks.  There's a whole thing mentality around these fundraisers that isn't inherently jerky.  The thinking is that there are going to be kids in the group whose parents can't afford to just shell out for the activity and that the only way to democratize these activities is by fundraising.

I have a kid who was in a competitive youth orchestra that did a ton of fundraising.  We were able to just donate ourselves, but that's not always the way these things are structured.  The youth orchestra itself tended to self select for kids who came from relatively affluent families, because most kids need private lessons in order to be good enough to make it through the auditions.  The non-profit running the orchestra recognized that as kind of elitist, and so sponsored some very good programs to get music into some of the underfunded school systems.  They provided used instruments for some kids.  They also didn't want to just slap a price for participating without also having some scholarship activities for students whose families couldn't afford it.  Hence all the fundraising.

[erutio]

You sound like you've got a grabby bunch of friends. I don't see how this is any different than a gofundme for "random thing someone didn't plan/save for". If parents want the kids to do something that costs money they have to pay for it. The only case I would consider would be if the family was low income and the kid was exceptional in something useful. From your post it sounds like the parents are sending emails to their friends/family soliciting donations for general travel sports competitions. Man, the entitlement is strong these days.... I would not only ignore the request but try to distance myself from the people making them. If they ask once and people give them money, they are going to ask again, and again. It is not going to be a one time deal.

This is not a gift. Or even charity. I'm surprised you're so calm about it actually. It would tick me off to no end.

As I posted above, I have no problem saying no, and didn't let my kids do fundraisers.

However, I disagree with the idea that the friends are entitled jerks.  There's a whole thing mentality around these fundraisers that isn't inherently jerky.  The thinking is that there are going to be kids in the group whose parents can't afford to just shell out for the activity and that the only way to democratize these activities is by fundraising.

I have a kid who was in a competitive youth orchestra that did a ton of fundraising.  We were able to just donate ourselves, but that's not always the way these things are structured.  The youth orchestra itself tended to self select for kids who came from relatively affluent families, because most kids need private lessons in order to be good enough to make it through the auditions.  The non-profit running the orchestra recognized that as kind of elitist, and so sponsored some very good programs to get music into some of the underfunded school systems.  They provided used instruments for some kids.  They also didn't want to just slap a price for participating without also having some scholarship activities for students whose families couldn't afford it.  Hence all the fundraising.

Reread the OP.  It appears these are not parents fundraising for activities or groups.  These are affluent parents asking for money for their own child for one specific activity.
I think that is distasteful.

[elaine amj]

You sound like you've got a grabby bunch of friends. I don't see how this is any different than a gofundme for "random thing someone didn't plan/save for". If parents want the kids to do something that costs money they have to pay for it. The only case I would consider would be if the family was low income and the kid was exceptional in something useful. From your post it sounds like the parents are sending emails to their friends/family soliciting donations for general travel sports competitions. Man, the entitlement is strong these days.... I would not only ignore the request but try to distance myself from the people making them. If they ask once and people give them money, they are going to ask again, and again. It is not going to be a one time deal.

This is not a gift. Or even charity. I'm surprised you're so calm about it actually. It would tick me off to no end.

As I posted above, I have no problem saying no, and didn't let my kids do fundraisers.

However, I disagree with the idea that the friends are entitled jerks.  There's a whole thing mentality around these fundraisers that isn't inherently jerky.  The thinking is that there are going to be kids in the group whose parents can't afford to just shell out for the activity and that the only way to democratize these activities is by fundraising.

I have a kid who was in a competitive youth orchestra that did a ton of fundraising.  We were able to just donate ourselves, but that's not always the way these things are structured.  The youth orchestra itself tended to self select for kids who came from relatively affluent families, because most kids need private lessons in order to be good enough to make it through the auditions.  The non-profit running the orchestra recognized that as kind of elitist, and so sponsored some very good programs to get music into some of the underfunded school systems.  They provided used instruments for some kids.  They also didn't want to just slap a price for participating without also having some scholarship activities for students whose families couldn't afford it.  Hence all the fundraising.

Reread the OP.  It appears these are not parents fundraising for activities or groups.  These are affluent parents asking for money for their own child for one specific activity.
I think that is distasteful.

It just seems to be a thing. I grew up in an affluent family and also handed out sheets for jogathons and school fundraising, etc. My mother says it is just something you do. She handed out cash to kids who asked and their parents handed out cash to me when I asked. Also, most people I know says it teaches kids how to "work" for their money. I guess the idea is the kids learn to ask other ppl for money to do the things they want to do.

All my rich friends fundraise like crazy for their kids too - especially the ones in super expensive competitive sports/dance/etc. None of them feel particularly entitled - they just do it because it is the "thing to do".

I don't really get it but I guess it is a societal norm thing. I have done some fundraising for my kids but by and large I just pay up the money myself or buy all their lottery tickets. I guess I have a hard time helping pay for my friend's Girl Guide daughter to travel to Europe when I have said no to my own kids because I think it's too expensive. 

Still, I do bow to societal pressures in this one and give to kids who ask.

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[MayDay]

I grew up in a situation where I needed to fundraise if I wanted to go. I chose not to try out for one school team because you had to pay for 300$ in uniforms.

I loved how our band handled it for band trips. The band committee found people in town who wanted actual work done, and we had to go do the work. It was things like doing yard work, shoveling snow, helping people take their dock out of the lake, etc. Not selling crap. I would rather mow a lawn for a sure 20$ any day, over going door to door!

I think it was kind of a known thing in town, that older folks could get good labor from band kids, because if we did a crummy job they could call the director and we would be in so much trouble.

[Mrbeardedbigbucks]

In my experience, unfortunately fund raising is not a two way street. I don't have kids of my own but when I was working in my corporate job, I always gave money to the parents trying to raise funds for their kids sporting events & clubs. Even if it was some crappy candle or tub of cookie dough, I just gave a donation and said they can keep the merchandise. I've probably given hundreds of dollars to the same families over the 16 years that I worked there.

The last year that I worked at my corporate job, I ran the Boston Marathon. I didn't qualify for the marathon but I was able to run in one of the charity spots that requires runners to raise $5000. I sent an email around to people at work explaining what I was doing and my fund raising goal. I thought maybe some of the parent that I gave money to over the years might help me out. I wasn't expecting a huge donation, even $10 would have been nice. Well, only ONE of those people gave me a donation. That one person specifically said "you've been so generous with my kids over the years, I'm happy I could give back to you". All of the other parents....goose egg.

I know it's wrong to expect something back when you give a gift or donation of some kind however, in a situation when you're raising funds for something that really isn't that critical, I think people should reciprocate.

It was interesting to see the demographics of who donated. It was completely anonymous but almost everyone left their name and a note of encouragment. The majority of the donations I received were from females and from people who had lower level jobs and made the least amount of money.

[Fishindude]

My kids are raised and out of the house but I sure watched a lot of the young folks at work dig themselves into the poor house chasing kids all over the state in various sports activities.   Tournaments out of town every weekend that required gas to travel, motels, eating out, etc. and they all had to have a nice new SUV or van to travel around in.   Not to mention the costs of uniforms, equipment, membership fees, etc.

 

[LiveLean]

It's reached the point I don't go to grocery stores or big box home improvement stores on weekends since I know the Scouts or some sports team will be soliciting. With sports, it's not kids from club sports soliciting, usually just run-of-the-mill high school sports, where here in Florida they require kids to pay $200 to $400 to play for any high school team. We just stroke the checks for those.

With Scouts -- and we have an Eagle Scout -- it gets annoying to see the same Girl Scout troop selling cookies every single weekend for two months or the same Boy Scout troop hawking hot dogs and drinks most every weekend. The toughest part about an Eagle Scout project is not the planning and construction of the project but the fundraiser, which inevitably becomes another car wash or big box home improvement store solicitation. All so the boy can scrape together the typical $500 or so necessary for the project.

If the lesson is to teach kids to "earn" money, soliciting is not the way to do it. But we're long past the era where kids might actually mow lawns or something similar to get the feel of actually translating their labor into purchasing power.

[ABC123]

I admit, I have always been secretly happy that my kids are not good enough for travel sports.  I have friends with kids on travel teams, and the amount of money and time involved is ridiculous. 

I rarely have people ask me directly to give to their fund raiser.  There are lots of Facebook posts asking people to buy a raffle ticket, or pledge to their lift-a-thon or whatever, and I just scroll right by those.  At work, people will bring in the form and leave it in the break room, and I just ignore those.  And in reverse, I don't ask other people to give to my kids' fund raisers.  Sure, Grandma might buy a thing of cookie dough, but I don't even ask anyone else.  I take the kids to the spring carnival PTO fund raiser, and I give to various things throughout the year.  But on principle, I don't buy the overpriced wrapping paper, or the $20 for a tiny box of chocolate.  They get the kids to sell these things by giving them a crappy toy for hitting a certain level.  And then the top seller in the school gets a free bike, or a tablet, etc.  I hate that.  I have told my kids flat out - you will never be the top seller in the school.  You will never get that prize.  You get lots of other things at other times, so just know that this one thing you will not get.