Tips/pitfalls to avoid when buying land for your Mustachian homestead

[GreenSheep]

There was recently a thread on rural Mustachian life. I'm in the process of evaluating a new community (Port Angeles, Washington and surrounding areas) for a potential move. BF and I have vacationed here before. I just arrived yesterday for a month-long stay, and BF will be arriving in a few days to join me for 9 days. We're just trying to get a feel for the place and are not looking to buy land during this visit, but we want to start learning about the process and looking around the area with that in mind as we go about our daily business. We've each bought a house in the past, and I still own some land that I'm trying to unload. (Half acre with a gorgeous view on St. Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands, anyone? Serious.) So we have a little experience, but we've never done exactly this before.

I'd love to hear from others who have bought a piece of land and built a small house on it. (My former financial advisor warned me against building a house, as his took 7 years. Turns out his is a tens-of-thousands-of-square-feet monstrosity in southern California.) Anything in particular that you looked for when evaluating potential properties? Anything you made sure to steer clear of? Obviously this will vary depending on personal preferences (views, etc.), but I suspect there are some common things that we should all consider. Thanks!

[Parizade]

Find out if there are any covenants on the land that will limit what kind of home you can build.
Check out local building codes (city, county, and state) especially if you are planning to build something nonstandard or off grid, to make sure there are no conflicts
Make sure you have access to the land from a public road. You don't want to have to cross someone else's land to go back and forth to yours.
Try to get an estimate of what it would take to prepare the building site, especially if it's not already level.
Find out if the land is on a flood plain
Determine what your water source would be. If you are planning to drill a well make sure there is water underneath the land.

[Eric]

Have you read the Frugalwoods blog?  They have a series of posts on how they're evaluating future land for their homestead.

http://www.frugalwoods.com/category/frugal-homestead-series/

[Northwestie]

One heads up for land in WA - make sure you check out the City or County's Critical Areas Map/Ordinance and their Shoreline Management Program/Map.    In simple terms - if you are 200 ft from a shoreline of the state (large lake, annual flow of 20cfs stream, or marine waters) or near a wetland, stream, aquifer recharge area, or steepslope/landslide area -- there may be restrictions on what you can build on the land or at least you'll need to apply for a variance and possibly complete some appropriate scale restoration.  Someone else also mentioned floodplain - I don't specifically know the codes out there by likely this is in their building code which takes in the IBC standards.

Lastly, check out the tsunami inundation maps.

Just a heads up -- Pt. Townsend is a cool place.  Love their woodworking school.

[Poeirenta]

I HIGHLY recommend getting a copy of Finding and Buying your Place in the Country by the Scher's (he's a real estate lawyer and i think she was a real estate broker iirc). It will walk you through the many details and potential pitfalls like ccrs, access, codes, etc.  It was our bible for buying the ranch. Though i do chuckle remembering all the things we put into the initial offer (had to be surveyed, well tested, etc by seller), which the seller crossed out and wrote "no"; basically everything but the offer price. Uh, sorry dude, if you won't do any of that, then the offer price is coming down big time! @@

You can also stop by the local conservation district and ask for a soil map on potential parcels- this will help you to know if you are likely to get a good perc test for septic. They can also fill you in on any particular issues related to farming, forestry, wetlands, etc. Buffers on fish bearing streams and protections for wetlands are a couple of things you could be dealing with in that area.

It took us two years to build our house- shell done by contractor and the rest by us, while working full time. 925 sq. ft.

PM me about the St. Croix land. I love me some Cruzan, and if the snorkeling is anywhere near as good as St. John, well, I might have to take a peek!

[Gevans17]

make sure none of it is considered to be wetlands

[Northwestie]

Just one note - you would be better off contacting the planning office of either Jefferson County or the City of Pt Townsend rather than the Conservation District.   The planning offices are the ones who enforce the codes, are very familiar with them, and you can just walk in and ask for help at the counter,   

[Poeirenta]

I admit to being biased, Northwestie, since I work for a conservation district. :-). This is a good example of where "and" is a better choice than "rather than" because both the planning dept. and the CD have their areas of expertise and going to just one doesn't always paint the whole picture.

I will mention that CDs are non-regulatory, so they are a good place to ask land use questions without worrying about raising any regulatory antennae, so to speak.

[GreenSheep]

Thank you all for such great advice!

Eric, I do follow the Frugalwoods blog, and I did see their helpful advice. I probably should have mentioned that! I was just looking for things to add to it, especially from people who have already bought their land and have started living on it and building on it. They're still in the looking/planning stages.

Dusty Dog Ranch, I will PM you. :-)

[fishnfool]

Op, Google the "Really Big One", article in New Yorker. Ya might want to keep that half acre.

[Roland of Gilead]

Whatever you do, don't buy raw land in King County.

We bought 20 acres in remote King County with the intention of building a small 1000 sq foot cabin.   After $10,000 of initial studies, during which the lovely county charged us even for the driving time from Renton to Skykomish of the agent, we finally gave up.   We didn't even get one clump of dirt turned over or foundation placed, just tossed $10k down the drain.

[NoraLenderbee]

This may be obvious, but make sure the land is actually suitable for your purposes (whatever they are) before you buy it. I know a couple who bought their land in the Sierra foothills, planning to raise much of their food on it. Only after the purchase did they discover that the land is about an inch of soil on top of bedrock. They had to bring in soil for raised beds. You probably aren't this dumb, though.

[GreenSheep]

Op, Google the "Really Big One", article in New Yorker. Ya might want to keep that half acre.

Eep. Well, uh, eastern Washington is nice, and land is cheaper, anyway....

[Cathy]

Make sure you have access to the land from a public road. You don't want to have to cross someone else's land to go back and forth to yours.

This is indeed important. I previously posted about a case that serves as a cautionary tale in this regard, and I think the case is interesting enough that I'll quote my previous post in full here:

It's possible for them to block our driveway, but they won't....

This possibility reminds me of one case I read a few years ago that I found pretty humourous.

In Vesuna, infra, the plaintiff purchased a property a BC after visiting it one day. During his visit, he accessed the property by driving along a road. The road turned out to be a private road, not a public road, and after the plaintiff bought the property, the owners of the road blocked access to it. Meanwhile, all other possible routes to access the plaintiff's property were also blocked by various obstacles (a stream in one case). Basically, he had purchased a property that was impossible to access! He filed a lawsuit alleging various legal theories against the neighbours and various levels of government (arguing that the governments were negligent in allowing this totally enclosed property to exist). Unfortunately for him, the courts found that none of his theories had any merit, and his case was totally dismissed. Vesuna v. British Columbia (Transportation), 2011 BCSC 941, aff'd 2013 BCCA 10, leave denied 2013 CanLII 53403 (SCC). I take this as a lesson to make sure it's possible to access property before purchasing it.

(Emphasis added.)

[GreenSheep]

Yes. Access is a huge thing. I am unaware of any Mustachian helicopters. What a nightmare!

[Clever Name]

I agree that access is a very important issue. But on the other hand, don't dismiss a property just because there is no apparent access. At least in the US, you often actually can gain legal access through the court system after purchasing a property. If you're interested in a landlocked property I would recommend discussing that particular situation with a knowledgeable local real estate attorney.

[MishMash]

Haven't seen this one thrown out yet, and it's something I made a ton of money on years ago consulting with law firms on...it has pretty much terrified me from that point on. 

Make sure you do due diligence on toxic materials on,or near the land.  Once you buy it, in most states if you find it, it's yours to pay for to clean.  That includes removal of the toxic material, AND removal of all the surrounding soil, along with proper disposal.  I've seen them on the low end, leaking oil tanks, to the high end, buying property that was adjacent to an undocumented (at the time, chemicals were from WWI era) superfund site that had pretty much rendered the purchased property uninhabitable, there wasn't a soil or water test that didn't come back loaded with all sorts of nasties from PCBs, TCE's, Benzene, etc.  That lawsuit was in the courts for 9 years and didn't have the most stellar of outcomes for the property purchaser.

The state should have a listing of all current superfund sites and extensive cleanup sites.  If you are looking at old farm land and plan on putting in a well, please please please have the groundwater tested prior to purchase.  Depending on soil and rock types it is possible for the old pesticides etc to leach into the ground water reservoir.  It's not super cheap to do so but can save you many, many issues down the line if it turns out your groundwater supply is tainted.

[Mtngrl]

Everyone has already brought up some really great things to think about. I would throw out a few more: Make the drive between the place you intend to buy and the nearest town (where you would go for groceries, library, etc) in a variety of conditions/weather. We looked at one place that was a nightmare to get to in winter, and another where the road turned to a mud bog in the spring. We lived for eight years on a rural place with a very poor road leading to it. After eight years of driving that road several times a week I couldn't wait to leave.

I have no idea what the weather is like where you plan to buy, but if it snows, a driveway that is not too steep and gets a lot of sun (to melt snow quickly) is a plus.

Subscribe to the local newspaper. You'll get a good idea of politics, potential zoning issues, etc.

If you want to keep animals, check deed restrictions. For instance, we can't have chickens where we live now. (We don't want them, but if we did, we would be out of luck.) Even rural places can have restrictions like that.

Good luck finding your dream place!

[Rightflyer]

In addition to most of the good advice above I would add the following actions; once you have some good candidate properties.

-Make sure you have lots of good water (spring, drilled well, dug well, town water etc)
-Figure out how you will get rid of that water (septic system, town sewer etc)
-Dig several deep holes. Get to know the land beneath your feet. See how quickly they fill with water.
-take topsoil samples and get it tested for PH/NPK
-note how many mature trees you see...you won't live long enough to grow them yourself.

Once you have a single candidate:

-Go camp there...for a week.

[Gone Fishing]

As already touched on, building comes with a lot of risks.  Before you decide to build, at least take a look at the market to see what is out there.  After talking to a few folks that built their own, we decided to go for existing house.  It's not perfect, but it sure was a lot simpler.  I'm sure you want a super efficient home which can be difficult to find or expensive to bring an older home up to standards, so also a consideration. 

Not sure what the leaf cover is like in your area, but we made a point to look at property in the winter when the leaves were off the trees.  Lets you get a better look at the land and at the neighbors.  Use GIS and Google earth to get aerial photos.

+1 on hills.  We have a fairly minor hill that one wouldn't think would be that big of a deal but it separates our home and road access from the rest of our property.  We've managed around it (a brick path and avoiding it when wet), but it'd be a lot easier if it wasn't there at all. 

[Northwestie]

I admit to being biased, Northwestie, since I work for a conservation district. :-). This is a good example of where "and" is a better choice than "rather than" because both the planning dept. and the CD have their areas of expertise and going to just one doesn't always paint the whole picture.

I will mention that CDs are non-regulatory, so they are a good place to ask land use questions without worrying about raising any regulatory antennae, so to speak.

Oh interesting!  I would definitely defer to the CD for soils information - they can give you a quick idea of the perk-test capabilities - though soil inclusions make it impossible for a desktop analysis.

But - for the land use regulations I would stick to the City or the County-believe me, they will be very happy to help walk you through any limitations on the land.  You will be the smart ones that came to their office BEFORE you purchased land.   Years ago I was asked to look at a 40 acre parcel here in WA and had to tell the guy who just signed a $500k purchase agreement that almost every square inch of it was a regulatory wetland -- Stupid, stupid, stupid.

If there are minor issues such as stream buffers or setbacks - and the land is really enticing, I'd suggest hiring a single shingle environmental/land use consultant to walk you thru the options so you don't have any hidden land mines.  $400 for peace of mind.  Good luck!

[Cadman]

Lots of good advice above, some worth repeating here....

- If there's an abstract for the land, review it to learn about its history which may or may not raise red flags.

- If off the road or difficult to access, will construction vehicles be able to reach you? Propane delivery if you need it? Septic pumping truck? Especially during inclimate seasons/weather.

-We built our own place in a rural area outside of town and knew the risks of having a very long lane (3/4+mile). Maintenance, gravel replenishment, too soft in the spring, keeping it clear of snow in the winter, etc. For us it's worth it for the privacy but can add some complexity, including what kind of vehicle you drive and type of equipment you end up buying.

-Utilities - Besides water, will the area support a septic and leech field? For power, will the utilities bring in lines? If near a road, probably not that big of a deal, otherwise you'll have to get them to agree, and you'll need to foot the bill. In our area they will only go underground so the expense was significantly more than a few overhead poles.

- To discourage urban sprawl, this area requires a minimum number of acres to be sold as a unit to allow home building. And verify property line setbacks if there's a location you envision the house.

- Easements and Right-of-ways. Even if there are no visible overhead lines or underground utilities, there may still be active easements. If you build a house...or shed...or plant trees that fall on that easement, you may not have recourse for any damage when company X comes along and buys out some long dormant right of way to put up their new high tension lines in your backyard.

- In this state it's illegal to prevent access to a land-locked parcel, and if there's an easement for that owner to use your property to get to his, make sure you've got a damn good lawyer. An annual renewal clause is a must because their property can change hands and the nice old man that stopped out once a month might pass on and leave the land to an unscrupulous family member that uses it as a superhighway.

[NV Teacher]

I agree that access is a very important issue. But on the other hand, don't dismiss a property just because there is no apparent access. At least in the US, you often actually can gain legal access through the court system after purchasing a property. If you're interested in a landlocked property I would recommend discussing that particular situation with a knowledgeable local real estate attorney.

This will really make your neighbors love you.  (snort)

We've been through this and it cost us over $30,000 in lawyer fees.

[Blindsquirrel]

   Buy a house that needs fixed up or expanded rather than raw land. Fixing darn near anything is cheaper than custom building.

[Curbside Prophet]

Haven't seen this one thrown out yet, and it's something I made a ton of money on years ago consulting with law firms on...it has pretty much terrified me from that point on. 

Make sure you do due diligence on toxic materials on,or near the land.  Once you buy it, in most states if you find it, it's yours to pay for to clean.  That includes removal of the toxic material, AND removal of all the surrounding soil, along with proper disposal.  I've seen them on the low end, leaking oil tanks, to the high end, buying property that was adjacent to an undocumented (at the time, chemicals were from WWI era) superfund site that had pretty much rendered the purchased property uninhabitable, there wasn't a soil or water test that didn't come back loaded with all sorts of nasties from PCBs, TCE's, Benzene, etc.  That lawsuit was in the courts for 9 years and didn't have the most stellar of outcomes for the property purchaser.

The state should have a listing of all current superfund sites and extensive cleanup sites.  If you are looking at old farm land and plan on putting in a well, please please please have the groundwater tested prior to purchase.  Depending on soil and rock types it is possible for the old pesticides etc to leach into the ground water reservoir.  It's not super cheap to do so but can save you many, many issues down the line if it turns out your groundwater supply is tainted.

Yes, this is very important as once you are on chain of title, it is your responsibility.  All tests need to be done BEFORE you buy your home.  I know for commercial real estate, you would typically order a Phase I environmental site assessment.  If the report finds any RECs (recognized environmental conditions) then you may need to conduct a Phase II (soil sampling) and so on.  I'm sure the residential equivalent is very similar if not the same.  A phase I isn't all that costly and it will save you from big liability down the road.

[GreenSheep]

   Buy a house that needs fixed up or expanded rather than raw land. Fixing darn near anything is cheaper than custom building.

This is actually something I've mentally wrestled with. I like the idea of building a small, efficient, off-grid place, but I also know that it's not easy. I don't want to inherit someone else's mistakes or poor taste, but sometimes I do think it might be cheaper/easier. Anyone else want to weigh in on this? I guess we know what MMM himself thinks!

[GreenSheep]

Thank you all for bringing up some really great points that I hadn't considered. I'll be saving this for when the time comes to make some real decisions.

[Rightflyer]

   Buy a house that needs fixed up or expanded rather than raw land. Fixing darn near anything is cheaper than custom building.

Well, that, as they say, depends...

We've done both. The "Reno" was by far the most expensive project we did. The house build was cheaper AND easier.

[The_path_less_taken]

   Buy a house that needs fixed up or expanded rather than raw land. Fixing darn near anything is cheaper than custom building.

This is actually something I've mentally wrestled with. I like the idea of building a small, efficient, off-grid place, but I also know that it's not easy. I don't want to inherit someone else's mistakes or poor taste, but sometimes I do think it might be cheaper/easier. Anyone else want to weigh in on this? I guess we know what MMM himself thinks!

Bought this place as "land only" as the house was truly inhabitable. Did a studs up remodel....took forever. Very expensive since was working and couldn't do much on it myself. Still needs lots done.

If you remodel, NEVER BUY PEACHTREE WINDOWS (mine suck and were way too expensive and truly horrible customer service/warranty).

I think that it would have been a lot cheaper to build from scratch, but it would possibly take longer. There are alternatives such as SIP and other building techniques, etc.

There are also....options for building small or creatively that don't intersect with planning departments/higher taxation. Example: 4 small 'sheds' of say ten feet by ten feet that clustered around a greenhouse that was put on a pier wall versus foundation (so by definition not a permanent structure) would not violate the "any structure larger than 100ft needs a permit" rule. Or six 'adjacent' sheds placed around an interior garden also wouldn't violate that rule.

Just saying.

Make SURE that your property was professionally surveyed....fence disputes aren't pretty. My best advice is to know everything you can about your neighbors....do they have a rooster (or 3)? Do they own a donkey?

Do they work all day and have a few nonstop barking dogs? Sound carries. Always look at the property at different times of the day, days of the week, and on holidays: maybe the local Hells Angel chapter as a BBQ next door every holiday.

I like motorcycles. But don't want them revving near my fenceline.

[Rural]

 If it's possible, find out about mineral rights. This is not possible in every state,  but if it is, it can keep you from a very unpleasant surprise somewhere down the road when some company moves and starts mining your backyard. Or drilling.


Check on utilities – is it possible to get them if they're not already present?  And even if it's possible to get them to the property, can you get them to the homesite? That's often an entirely different question. It's not possible for us to get cable, for example, and gas is out of the question for most rural properties unless you want to put in a propane tank. Here, it would not be possible to fill a propane tank because of the slope of the driveway – the refill truck could not get here.  If the house had been another hundred feet from the roadway, we would have had no choice but to go off grid for electricity as well.