Author Topic: Tips for the Naive Among Us  (Read 12070 times)

OUJAU

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Tips for the Naive Among Us
« on: November 23, 2018, 01:45:40 PM »
I've been following along with the FIRE methodologies discussed on this forum for quite a few years. Over that span of time, there are many things in general which I now realize I was being naive about or that I didn't understand as well as I thought I did at the time (relationships, goals, how the world works in general, etc.). At this point, I'm also wise enough to realize that I'm probably making at least as many mistakes and hold as many misconceptions now as I did then. All this is really just a round about way to set up the question I'm really interested in here:

What are some of the misconceptions or naive beliefs you held when you were younger that you realized weren't quite right only after years of experience?


[This question was sparked by my realization that all but one of my coworkers are well beyond the age at which I expect to be able to FIRE. In order for me to not be able to retire by their age, I'd have to spend tens of thousands of dollars more per year. There must be something I'm missing because if I were to spend enough for my projected net worth to be equal to what theirs is now, I'd basically have to be living like a baller... and I'm pretty sure they're not buying Porsches or even nice clothes for that matter. I must be missing something haha ]

big_slacker

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2018, 04:37:49 PM »
Wow, great topic! Here are a few from me:

1. That hard work was the key to success. Without strategy/planning, timing and relationships it's a motor not attached to a car.
2. That 'rich' people were stuck up, morally corrupt and soft. Knowing many such people now they tend to be thoughtful, generous and disciplined.
3. That all the world was as savage and hard as the time/place that I grew up. The sierras and it's wonderful people taught me that in no way was true.
4. That lots of money would make me happy. It's still surreal to see my paychecks now, but I'm truly no happier than when I was a snowboard bum. Money doesn't make you unhappy though if you defend your true self while you're making it. ;)
« Last Edit: November 23, 2018, 04:41:44 PM by big_slacker »

Freedomin5

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2018, 05:24:22 PM »
Things I’ve learned since starting on the path to FIRE:

1.  You don’t need to climb the corporate ladder with corresponding incremental pay raises in order to be successful and have a good life/retire early.

2. Working in a STEM field is not the only fastest/surest way to FIRE.

3. Picking a career field that has a higher chance of employment or job stability is not more important than working in a field you love, even if it’s traditionally a “would you like fries with that” degree. If you’re smart enough and dedicated enough and creative enough to go against the crowd and choose to pursue FIRE, you’re probably smart/dedicated/creative/hardworking enough to find a way to monetize even such “useless” degrees as underwater basket weaving. (Can you tell I’m an underwater basket weaver?) :D

4. Happiness comes from inside yourself, not by amassing more things like a bigger house or nicer car. And ironically, if you focus on simplifying your life and spending money on what truly feeds your soul, people tend to overlook what you don’t have and admire or think that you have a lot, simply because of how at peace and content with your life you seem to be, and the freedom you have.

5. Freedom to do what you want, when you want, is more gratifying than accolades or achievements.


pecunia

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2018, 05:31:45 PM »
You don't have to do it right the first time you try it.  If you don't do it right, don't give up.

Dicey

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2018, 08:55:59 PM »
I learned that pre-paying an affordable, fixed-rate, US based mortgage before stuffing full all other retirement savings options was not necessarily the best idea, or even a smart idea.

I learned about the magic of compound interest.

I learned the earlier you stash away dollars, the fewer actual dollars you need to stash to hit FI.

FI is everything it's cracked up to be. It does not disappoint.

Travis

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2018, 10:08:09 AM »
1. The stock market isn't scary. In fact, nothing is scary or impossible if you just spend a few minutes to learn about it.

2. Figure out what makes you happy. The Jones might have more stuff, but they could also be miserable.

3. Take care of yourself. Success is going to require working smarter and having achievable plans, but the larger the organization the less likely they are to care if you burn yourself even if they benefit.

4. These are all wild bright ideas unless the rest of your family is on board.

HBFIRE

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2018, 11:08:31 AM »
1) Don't be afraid to pursue studies in the liberal arts despite the bad rap they receive.  It turns out learning how to articulate at a high level and think critically will turn you into a super human.  These are skills few possess and are invaluable.  It also turns out these skills are more highly sought after today by companies than technical skills, but this is just a side benefit.  The value of such an education increases over time and will demonstrate itself in all aspects of your life.  The purpose of a quality education is not just to be trained for a job.  I consider this to easily be the best choice I've made in my life. 

2) Go slowly with relationships.  It takes a long time to figure out what you want in a companion.  Postpone marriage and having children until your 30's.

3) Master your finances early, but don't expect it to solve all your problems.  Money is a tool that makes everything easier, but your health, relationships, and general purpose are more important.

Tuskalusa

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2018, 11:20:09 AM »
If you simply start by just aiming to keep monthly expenses below monthly income, the world opens up and things get easier.

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2018, 12:58:39 PM »
The "risk" in the stock market isn't the stock market, it's us (buying single stocks vs super diverse funds, agreeing to high fees, selling in a drop, etc). We can mitigate us.

zeli2033

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2018, 04:53:46 PM »
1. Debt is not a normal, non-negotiable fact of life.

2. You do not need to carry a balance on a credit card to build credit.

3. With determination and intentional actions, a financial 180 is completely possible.

4. Frugality does not equal deprivation.

CanuckExpat

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2018, 08:31:10 PM »
When in doubt, ride a bike

okits

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2018, 08:42:42 PM »
1. That hard work was the key to success. Without strategy/planning, timing and relationships it's a motor not attached to a car.

Mine is similar to this; you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.

Steeze

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2018, 08:54:11 PM »
Things I wish I knew 10 years ago...

100k in student loans doesn't take that long to pay off

Its feasible to save $1MM in 10 years.

The 4% rule is a thing

Picking stocks is stupid, so is day trading

How to buy a mutual fund

Buy some freaking stock or real estate with your student loans you idiot, it's 2008!!!

Damn why didn't I buy stock or real estate in 2008....

Being 100% sober isn't that boring

Wear a helmet more often

Watch out for Lyme disease

Protect your knees.

Learn Chinese now, so when you meet your wife in a few years it will be easier to impress her father.


LPG

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2018, 08:54:56 PM »
People will walk all over you if you don't stand up for yourself. Sometimes this is because they're disrespectful people. Other times it's because they're great people who don't realize they're walking all over you because you haven't told them.

Related to that, the people you want in your life are the people who are happy to discuss what's bothering you in relationships. This means they value their relationship with you enough that they'd rather experience a bit of discomfort than risk losing you.

booyah

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2018, 09:11:03 PM »
The things that were the most uncomfortable for me are the ones that developed me most as a person. Moving when I didn’t want to, deployments, new positions at work....all outside my comfort zone but taught me so much about myself.


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BlueMR2

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2018, 04:44:26 PM »
As a youngster I used to believe that adults knew what they were doing and in the economy of scale.  Turns out that most adults I've met are barely smart enough to remember to breathe most times with few being capable of being trusted with anything more complicated than a stick.  Economy of scale turns out to be a lie as the benefits of scaling are overwhelmed by the communication overhead and management layers.

Brother Esau

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2018, 05:46:48 PM »
I now understand and appreciate how important every single green soldier is. Every single one.

MoustacheDArgent

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2018, 11:35:40 PM »
We all have different situations, but here are some of things I've learned over the years.

Hard work isn't always rewarded if you are an employee.  Your manager and others may see your hard work as a threat and try to hold you down.  This is real and something none of my college professors or any career books ever mentioned and I was totally unprepared for.

There's a lot of truth to the expression "You'll never get rich working for someone else."

There's nothing to be ashamed of if you aren't high income.  No one cares about how much money you make.

When you are going through difficulties is the time to reach out to friends and family, not withdraw from them.

Don't lie to yourself or others to try and impress them.  Be honest about all your faults and fears.

After quitting my job to become self employed and live off of investments a year ago I became so angry when I realized how much of my life in the last 20 years was devoted to my "career" and trying to climb a ladder to make a decent wage.  It almost seems like I was in a daze.    It's my fault but I regret not focusing more of that time on friends and family.  I had too much of my self-worth tied up with my income and net worth.




AlexMar

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2018, 06:25:16 AM »
As a youngster I used to believe that adults knew what they were doing and in the economy of scale.  Turns out that most adults I've met are barely smart enough to remember to breathe most times with few being capable of being trusted with anything more complicated than a stick. 

This was probably my biggest realization when I got older, too.  And I think it's an important one.  Once you realize others really aren't that smart or capable, it provides a big boost of confidence in yourself.

mak1277

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2018, 06:54:21 AM »
It's naive to think you've got it all figured out.  When I was 25, I thought I knew exactly what I wanted out of life and had things totally wired.  Then things change...and at 35 I felt like I knew exactly what I wanted out of life and had things totally wired.  THen things change.

I have hobbies now that I'm totally immersed in that I thought were "stupid" ten years ago. 

Don't expect not to change.

KBCB

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2018, 08:07:32 AM »
That "perfection" is what to strive for. I am still learning this lesson myself, but it is OK not to be "perfect" and to try your best at what you do.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2018, 08:11:40 AM »
Things that you take for granted don't necessarily last. Everything that you consider to be certain, can suddenly change radically. Don't take anything for granted.

Working too hard is not good for your health and totally not worth it financially.

A house can be too big.

Don't trust the nice person who is selling the house. Keep some of the money behind until everything that was promised has been delivered. This will motivate the seller to deliver.

DS

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2018, 08:20:44 AM »
It's naive to think you've got it all figured out.  When I was 25, I thought I knew exactly what I wanted out of life and had things totally wired.  Then things change...and at 35 I felt like I knew exactly what I wanted out of life and had things totally wired.  THen things change.

I have hobbies now that I'm totally immersed in that I thought were "stupid" ten years ago. 

Don't expect not to change.

The only constant is change.

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2018, 08:22:10 AM »
That if we knuckle down and learn from our mentors (school teachers, physicians, authors, gurus, etc) we will soon know more than they do about how the topic applies in our case. For maximum outcomes, we then need to trust our gained knowledge and act on it.

Monocle Money Mouth

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2018, 02:51:12 PM »
As a youngster I used to believe that adults knew what they were doing and in the economy of scale.  Turns out that most adults I've met are barely smart enough to remember to breathe most times with few being capable of being trusted with anything more complicated than a stick. 

So true.

When I was younger, I used to think the adults around me were rational and mature. After many years of adulthood, I've come to realize the vast majority of them are not. They are still intellectually and emotionally immature. They don't plan ahead. They are ruled by fear and laziness. They would rather buy a gadget or pill than make an actual behavior change. They pin all there hopes and dreams on a politician fixing everything for them. This is true for co-workers, family, and some people you consider friends.

AM43

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2018, 08:28:49 AM »
As a youngster I used to believe that adults knew what they were doing and in the economy of scale.  Turns out that most adults I've met are barely smart enough to remember to breathe most times with few being capable of being trusted with anything more complicated than a stick. 

So true.

When I was younger, I used to think the adults around me were rational and mature. After many years of adulthood, I've come to realize the vast majority of them are not. They are still intellectually and emotionally immature. They don't plan ahead. They are ruled by fear and laziness. They would rather buy a gadget or pill than make an actual behavior change. They pin all there hopes and dreams on a politician fixing everything for them. This is true for co-workers, family, and some people you consider friends.

This ^^
Could not agree more.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2018, 11:22:54 AM »
What an interesting question. Mine would be:

The stock market isn’t as complicated or scary as you thought and it’s not just for rich people.

Life outside the US can be as good, if not a lot better, than life within the US.

All the things you hate about your looks, there are many people in the world who will love them.

But the biggest is hard for me to make pithy. I never thought I would live past 30 for various reasons so I never focused on saving money, what was the point? I had a carpe diem mentality. I honestly wish I had learned the concept early about FI and believed it was achievable early. Now I can only see opportunities that I let by, although I’ve had a great life and I’m in a great position to still have almost everything I want. Almost.

mathlete

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2018, 11:56:58 AM »
Smart/geeky kids do not automatically grow up to "rule the world". Being personable, likable, and ruthless are also important if you want to seek power.

Being self-made is mostly mythology from self-congratulatory people. Everyone needs help, and the most successful people get a lot of it. So seek help.

Reading is good, but not all reading is created equal. Try to read people who know what they're talking about.

Everyone is going through something that you don't know about, so try to be nice.


By the River

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2018, 12:11:13 PM »
As a youngster I used to believe that adults knew what they were doing and in the economy of scale.  Turns out that most adults I've met are barely smart enough to remember to breathe most times with few being capable of being trusted with anything more complicated than a stick. 

So true.

When I was younger, I used to think the adults around me were rational and mature. After many years of adulthood, I've come to realize the vast majority of them are not. They are still intellectually and emotionally immature. They don't plan ahead. They are ruled by fear and laziness. They would rather buy a gadget or pill than make an actual behavior change. They pin all there hopes and dreams on a politician fixing everything for them. This is true for co-workers, family, and some people you consider friends.

Talking to a coworker yesterday, he said his cholesterol readings were high but not extreme and doctor told him to watch his diet.  Coworker said, "I want to take a pill rather than having to watch my diet" 

Samuel

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2018, 12:16:43 PM »
1. That hard work was the key to success. Without strategy/planning, timing and relationships it's a motor not attached to a car.

Mine is similar to this; you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.

The phrasing that unlocked it for me: You're not paid based on how hard you work, you're paid on how difficult it is to replace you.



Monocle Money Mouth

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2018, 12:20:45 PM »
As a youngster I used to believe that adults knew what they were doing and in the economy of scale.  Turns out that most adults I've met are barely smart enough to remember to breathe most times with few being capable of being trusted with anything more complicated than a stick. 

So true.

When I was younger, I used to think the adults around me were rational and mature. After many years of adulthood, I've come to realize the vast majority of them are not. They are still intellectually and emotionally immature. They don't plan ahead. They are ruled by fear and laziness. They would rather buy a gadget or pill than make an actual behavior change. They pin all there hopes and dreams on a politician fixing everything for them. This is true for co-workers, family, and some people you consider friends.

Talking to a coworker yesterday, he said his cholesterol readings were high but not extreme and doctor told him to watch his diet.  Coworker said, "I want to take a pill rather than having to watch my diet"

That sounds about right :D

mathlete

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2018, 12:21:28 PM »
Talking to a coworker yesterday, he said his cholesterol readings were high but not extreme and doctor told him to watch his diet.  Coworker said, "I want to take a pill rather than having to watch my diet"

Don't we all? I eat salad and oatmeal because it makes me feel and look good, but if I could take a pill that keeps everything in check on a diet of pizza, I'd be game.

That doesn't exist of course, but modern medicine enables us to some extent. Statins come to mind.

Kitsunegari

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2018, 12:41:57 PM »
When in doubt, go without.

o2bfree

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2018, 01:55:44 PM »
Take good care of your teeth and see a dentist regularly. These tiny investments in time and money can save you 10s of 1000s of dollars later.

Tyson

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2018, 02:12:09 PM »
Don't get married, unless you are willing to see half your net worth disappear in an instant if/when they decide to leave (or vice versa).

slow hand slow plan

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2018, 02:26:46 PM »
Don't get married, unless you are willing to see half your net worth disappear in an instant if/when they decide to leave (or vice versa).

You are on the anti-marriage train pretty hard....

Tyson

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2018, 03:23:51 PM »
Don't get married, unless you are willing to see half your net worth disappear in an instant if/when they decide to leave (or vice versa).

You are on the anti-marriage train pretty hard....

Divorce was finalized last week, FIRE plans are destroyed. 

AlexMar

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2018, 06:41:59 PM »
Don't get married, unless you are willing to see half your net worth disappear in an instant if/when they decide to leave (or vice versa).

You are on the anti-marriage train pretty hard....

Depending on the State, there is often no reason at all to sign a financial contract with the State in regards to your bedroom partner.

Marriage (legal) is a terrible idea.  Go have a ceremony, trade rings, get "married" and skip the contract.

aceyou

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2018, 07:38:11 PM »
Naïve me: It’s not ok to not be ok.  Toughen up buttercup!!!!

Wiser me:  Yes it is.  Talk often with those you love and ask for help when you need it.



Naive me: I will wake up and work like a maniac all day long!!! 

Wiser me:  Sometimes you really should bust ass, but as a rule, working yourself into the ground isn’t what life is about.



Naïve me: I’m more successful than others because I’m a hard worker and intelligent!

Wiser me: My intense work ethic made it look like I hit a home run.  In reality, I was born on third base.   Hell, even much of my hard work ethic can directly traced to the privilege I was born to.  Don't judge others for what they don't have or can't do; be grateful for what you do have and can do.



o2bfree

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2018, 09:12:37 PM »
DH and I were together 21 years before getting married. We finally signed the contract for two reasons: to get him cheap health insurance through my employer after he retired, and to ensure that I'd get his pension if he died before me. Being married also makes other asset transfers more certain in the case of death. As I understand it, it's easier for relatives to contest a will if you're not married and your partner dies. We both have relatives that might pull something like that.

Hirondelle

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2018, 10:33:13 PM »
It's naive to think you've got it all figured out.  When I was 25, I thought I knew exactly what I wanted out of life and had things totally wired.  Then things change...and at 35 I felt like I knew exactly what I wanted out of life and had things totally wired.  THen things change.

I have hobbies now that I'm totally immersed in that I thought were "stupid" ten years ago. 

Don't expect not to change.

So much this!! I really love how you wrote that out. I'm only 25 and often surprised at how my peers seem to be so sure of 'what they want in life'. Then there's the typical career questions of "where to you see yourself in 5-10 years?" and I'm always just blank. If you'd have told me 5 years ago about the things I'd do between then and now I'd have laughed at you SO HARD and still I'm SO GLAD I did all of them. I expect to do the same in another 5 years.

clifp

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2018, 12:05:06 AM »
A couple years before retiring. I came across this T-Shirt in my 2nd trip to Hawaii
Kimo's Hawaiian Rules.




These four are very FIRE, and the rest very Hawaiian

The best things in life aren't things.
Goals are deceptive-the unaimed arrow never misses.
He who dies with the most toys-still dies.
There are 2 ways to be rich-make more, or desire less

The other important I learned is that for most people, with careers not jobs, your best most rewarding months will be while working.  It is hard to beat the sense of purpose, being part of something larger than yourself if you work for a good company in a job you generally enjoy and find challenging.   However, your worst months being retired are almost certain to be better than your worst months while working.   I didn't miss at all, the stress, the feeling of not having control of my life or my time,  having to fire people, the frustration of endless meetings or doing things you knew were dumb because a top executive demanded they get done.

In my experience people, who failed at retirement and went back to work because they felt unsatisfied, were more concerned with having the highs associated with work than avoiding the lows.  Becoming FI is always a worthwhile goal, but the psychological preparation for the RE part is every bit as important as the numbers.

Even after 20 years of retirement, I'm not 100% sure I made the right choice.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2018, 06:18:44 AM »
Marriage protects children (mostly).  If you really don't want to be married, check out the status of living together turning you into a common-law couple in your jurisdiction.  You may end up being viewed as married by the state even if you never went through the paperwork. In that case, get a cohabitation contract (this is common with older couples in my region who come into the relationship with assets and children).

People used to planning their work lives do very well at retirement - teachers retire very well.

Change happens - I could never have predicted 10 years ago what my life has been like these last 10 years.  So what will my life be like in another 10?  I have no clue.

MDfive21

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2018, 08:57:58 AM »
don't expect your SO to suddenly grow up and change his/her behavior in regards to money or other habits just because s/he's older, wiser, married, has kids etc.  if your SO is a dumbass now, s/he'll probably stay that way. 

if you break up once, don't go back, ever.

when you get out of a long term relationship, go out, have fun and have sex with someone else asap.  pining over the ex is bad in too many ways to list.

learn how your childhood affects the way you see the world as an adult.

learn the common logical fallacies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

and if you're considering getting married, read this and plan accordingly:  http://www.realworlddivorce.com/Introduction
"When young people ask me about the law as a career," said one [divorce] litigator, "I tell them that in this country whom they choose to have sex with and where they have sex will have a bigger effect on their income than whether they attend college and what they choose as a career."
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 09:05:07 AM by MDfive21 »

CanuckExpat

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2018, 09:01:47 PM »
“...it’s all made up, and by people no smarter than you”

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2018, 10:14:40 PM »
It really isn't about what you earn - it's about what you do with it.

My income is up to me, not an employer. I can move to another job at anytime, and I can also use side hustles to expand my income.

People with a lot of financial terminology can be really frickin stupid.

There is no one right way to success. Read everything and take the bits that suit you.

Don't listen to other people, even very good friends and relations.

Dicey

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2018, 01:17:39 AM »
Don't get married, unless you are willing to see half your net worth disappear in an instant if/when they decide to leave (or vice versa).

You are on the anti-marriage train pretty hard....

Divorce was finalized last week, FIRE plans are destroyed.
Oh, come on. FIRE plans delayed, not destroyed. You can do this. Batsignalling @UnleashHell and @MissNancyPryor, two of my favorite scrappy divorce survivors.

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2018, 06:46:02 AM »
It really isn't about what you earn - it's about what you do with it.

My income is up to me, not an employer. I can move to another job at anytime, and I can also use side hustles to expand my income.

People with a lot of financial terminology can be really frickin stupid.

There is no one right way to success. Read everything and take the bits that suit you.

Don't listen to other people, even very good friends and relations.

Did you really mean that last part?  Two heads are better than one.  Should we not listen to all these tips being offered, even yours?

BicycleB

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2018, 11:26:10 AM »
Naive belief - whether I should invest in stock depends on whether stocks are too high. And they're almost always too high!

Tips (almost all of these are the same tip)
1. Invest based on your own life circumstance. For example, see 2.
2. If you live below your means, invest the savings (not saying "never have cash" here, just saying have a good chunk of your savings out working rather than slowly melting in the bank).
3. During the investment phase, daily stock fluctuations mean nothing. The price isn't final until I sell, far in the future. 
4. The price of the stock market doesn't matter in FIRE, except for the tiny slice of the pie that gets sold this year to top off the year's spending. A down market might mean that tiny slice is 3% of stash instead of 1%, but in a few years, it'll change again.
5. Same tip as 3, phrased differently. Based on the 4% rule, a 25% change in market prices only means at most a 1% change in the portion of my portfolio that I sell to cover my living expenses this year in FIRE.

TL;DR tip - Unless you're making a major life decision, such as whether today is the day to retire, the price of the stock market really, really, really doesn't matter. Really.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 11:33:15 AM by BicycleB »

Tyson

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Re: Tips for the Naive Among Us
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2018, 06:06:45 PM »
Don't get married, unless you are willing to see half your net worth disappear in an instant if/when they decide to leave (or vice versa).

You are on the anti-marriage train pretty hard....

Divorce was finalized last week, FIRE plans are destroyed.
Oh, come on. FIRE plans delayed, not destroyed. You can do this. Batsignalling @UnleashHell and @MissNancyPryor, two of my favorite scrappy divorce survivors.

No, not destroyed.  But for a while it will feel like it.  Lick your wounds as long as you need to and then figure out what is next.

Payments to an ex can jack you up for sure but you also have 100% control over the rest of your expenses.  Be as cheap as you want when you want.  Spend when you like to on things you want.   

Figure out what your new date will be and strive forward without getting a lot of blow back bullshit from an unsupportive or whiny ex.  You don't have to sell anyone on your idea and you can succeed despite the shit that has been tipped onto you.   

Don't be afraid to find a new partner who can share that dream with you.  Don't let someone else make you their financial future and choose someone who doesn't want any rescuing.  If you want a partner at all, choose a competent one.

Thanks, that helps.