Author Topic: Time Thieves  (Read 8603 times)

Linea_Norway

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Time Thieves
« on: March 21, 2019, 01:46:19 AM »
Yesterday I watched a documentary on TV with the name "Time Thieves". It was a very European documentary, every interviewed person speaking their own language (Dutch, French, English, Spanish, Italian, German and probably a few more). It resonated very well with me and showed why FI is so important.

But the subject was Time Thieves and it discussed the following subjects:
- We started to use time when we started travelling by trains over longer distances. Before that, we weren't so tied to the clock.
- Self checkout and self booking is a way to let your customers work for your company for free, without the hassle of employment benefits. Ikea is also such an example, by selling furniture that you need to assemble yourself.
- Companies have misused time tracking systems to track how much time employees could use at the bathroom, minimizing that time.
- Social welfare systems generally don't support that parents can take paid time off to be with their dying child during the last months of the child's life.
- In Spain people start working pretty late, have a long coffee break in the morning, a very long lunch break and work until very late in the evening. People have no time at all for a private life after work. This has consequences for society (volunteering, democracy etc).

There were probably some other subjects that I don't recall at the moment.

I do indeed often feel rushed because of time schedules. That might be one of the reasons I am often so much more relaxed during vacations. I had also not given it a thought that self checkout, self booking and self assembling is also a time thief. But indeed, if the self booking system is complicated (like filling out a healthcare.gov application that I read about in another thread), then we spend a lot of our time doing something that formerly an employee would have done for us. Now we need to do it ourselves. In some cases it is very convenient, but if not easy enough, it can be a PITA. I do think however that we Mustachians would rather buy flat-packed Ikea furniture for a low price than fully assembled furniture for a nigh price.
When it comes to employees and their measured toilet times, I was really shocked that that exists. I am so happy that I have always worked at places where that hasn't been an issue.
What all my employers do is giving people a free phone with cell phone plan in the expectation that people read and answer emails in the evenings and weekends. That is a time thieve. I have never accepted such a phone.

The documentary certainly reminded me on why FIRE, and in particular the FI part, is so important. Then at least we can decide on our own time. It also made me feel right about our decision to start working part time, even though that is a bit inconvenient to our employers.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 02:08:09 AM by Linea_Norway »

Loren Ver

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2019, 04:48:11 AM »
Ohh those are some very good points and thoughts. 

The healthcare.gov one really resonates with me :).

I never though about some of the do-it-yourself as a time thief, but it really can be.  I really like self checkout, as I am fast and efficient in packing my own groceries, but my groceries didn't cost less because I did my own packing, therefore I did the work for free.  Interesting.

I really hate the timed bathroom and related breaks.  I have never worked at a place that did that, but know people that have.  Sometimes you need to treat people like adults and let them act like adults.   

NorthernMonkey

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2019, 05:13:00 AM »
Contact centres have tracked agents time for many years. I look after a phone system where people have to be available to answer calls, or make themselves unavailable Personal (because youre having a toilet break, getting a coffee etc) or unavailable Work (meetings etc).

If youre not available to take calls for 6 hours a day, your manager will want to know why.

we collect thousands of datapoints on agent availability and performance every day.


ender

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2019, 05:27:53 AM »
This has definitely happened in the office world too. Many administrative tasks that in years past would have been done by a secretary are now the responsibility of an employee.

I'd question some of the initial premise, though - there is value to me in several of those examples (self checkout, ikea furniture, etc).

Linea_Norway

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2019, 05:30:07 AM »
Ohh those are some very good points and thoughts. 

The healthcare.gov one really resonates with me :).

I never thought about some of the do-it-yourself as a time thief, but it really can be.  I really like self checkout, as I am fast and efficient in packing my own groceries, but my groceries didn't cost less because I did my own packing, therefore I did the work for free.  Interesting.

I got that healthcare.gov from your post. :-)

Yes, we who do self-checkout should get a bit of a lower price. I have used it often. But last time, I wanted to buy a vegetable that I couldn't weigh on the scales. I tried for almost 10 minutes and there was no one to ask. Eventually I just left it. But in total it would have been faster if I would have been in the normal checkout queue.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2019, 06:12:42 AM »
Ohh those are some very good points and thoughts. 

The healthcare.gov one really resonates with me :).

I never thought about some of the do-it-yourself as a time thief, but it really can be.  I really like self checkout, as I am fast and efficient in packing my own groceries, but my groceries didn't cost less because I did my own packing, therefore I did the work for free.  Interesting.

I got that healthcare.gov from your post. :-)

Yes, we who do self-checkout should get a bit of a lower price. I have used it often. But last time, I wanted to buy a vegetable that I couldn't weigh on the scales. I tried for almost 10 minutes and there was no one to ask. Eventually I just left it. But in total it would have been faster if I would have been in the normal checkout queue.

Yeah, I only use self-checkout when I don't anticipate problems. Produce is one of the prime offenders, but staples like bananas, apples, onions, potatoes, etc. usually ring up fine. For me, the self-checkout is almost always a time-saver, because the cashier lanes always have lines, and the self-checkout almost never does.

My solution to the IKEA furniture assembly problem is to find cheap (often free), already-assembled furniture on Craiglist or Facebook. Amazing what people will give away once they decide it no longer suits their style :)

Zamboni

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2019, 06:33:28 AM »
^Used furniture for the win.

I think right now, for me, Twitter is the biggest time thief of them all.

I agree that commuting is a time thief. By car is worse than by train because at least on the train you can usually read. Waiting in carpool line at the school is a time thief.

Some stores around here seem to be tinkering with the "all check out is self check out" idea either intentionally, or with poor management. When I have a very large cart of groceries, which is a pain to do in the little spaces they provide, I have simply refused and have asked customer service get a full service line open.

Another time thief is long wait times on the phone for customer service. When my internet goes out, it is at least a 30 minute phone ordeal, for example. I prefer the call back number method . . . although earlier this week I went for that and they never called back.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2019, 06:54:31 AM »
Some stores around here seem to be tinkering with the "all check out is self check out" idea either intentionally, or with poor management. When I have a very large cart of groceries, which is a pain to do in the little spaces they provide, I have simply refused and have asked customer service get a full service line open.

Oh, I haven't seen that around here. We do a big grocery run every two weeks, and the self-checkout lanes are way too small for that much stuff. We always use the cashier lanes when we have a full cart.

Cool Friend

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2019, 07:57:39 AM »
The self-checkout lines drive me crazy and I refuse to use them no matter how crowded the store is.

Automated phone menus are another way to pass labor off on the consumer.  Who among us hasn't waded through a labyrinth of menu options only to find that the issue can not be solved automatically, and then spent another another half hour on hold because the company doesn't employ enough human beings to help their customers?


Linea_Norway

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2019, 08:02:58 AM »
The self-checkout lines drive me crazy and I refuse to use them no matter how crowded the store is.

Automated phone menus are another way to pass labor off on the consumer.  Who among us hasn't waded through a labyrinth of menu options only to find that the issue can not be solved automatically, and then spent another another half hour on hold because the company doesn't employ enough human beings to help their customers?

I have seen this on websites when looking for customer service. It can cost a lot of time and often I still need to contact an employee because my problem isn't listed in the frequently asked questions.

DadJokes

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2019, 08:05:21 AM »

Yes, we who do self-checkout should get a bit of a lower price.

We wanted to go watch a movie in the theater a few months ago, and we were going to buy the tickets online ahead of time. They added a fee so that it was more expensive to buy the tickets online than to go stand in line and buy them from some minimum wage kid at the counter. What is with that backward-ass thinking?

Linea_Norway

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2019, 08:06:46 AM »
Another very common one is airlines that don't have self check-in, but only have 1 counter open. This happens often on typical south european vacation destinations, like Crete. The waiting row is just enormous. We waste so much time there.

About commuting... At my work we have cook who work in the cafeteria. They provide meals for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I have heard one of the cooks saying he was going home. He would be back later for his evening shift. If you need to commute twice on one working day, you double your commute. Not good for the employee.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2019, 08:08:50 AM »

Yes, we who do self-checkout should get a bit of a lower price.

We wanted to go watch a movie in the theater a few months ago, and we were going to buy the tickets online ahead of time. They added a fee so that it was more expensive to buy the tickets online than to go stand in line and buy them from some minimum wage kid at the counter. What is with that backward-ass thinking?

When you buy an online ticket at Ryan Air, you need to print it out yourself at home. Last time we traveled with them, we didn't have a working printer. I had to drive to work on a Sunday evening to print there. Other airlines let you download your ticket on your phone and you can print it from the machine, but not Ryan Air. Yes, they can print it for you at some ridiculous fee.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2019, 08:26:29 AM »
The self-checkout lines drive me crazy and I refuse to use them no matter how crowded the store is.

Automated phone menus are another way to pass labor off on the consumer.  Who among us hasn't waded through a labyrinth of menu options only to find that the issue can not be solved automatically, and then spent another another half hour on hold because the company doesn't employ enough human beings to help their customers?

Self checkout lines help me avoid making small talk with cashiers, which is a big plus for me.

I hate automated menus, though. My Dad once made me order three pizzas online for a discount of like $1/pizza. It literally took me 30 minutes to work my way through the byzantine menu options to actually get the damn things ordered. I he asks me to do it again, I'm just going to hand him 3 bucks and call the bastards to order.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2019, 08:47:07 AM »
The self-checkout lines drive me crazy and I refuse to use them no matter how crowded the store is.

Automated phone menus are another way to pass labor off on the consumer.  Who among us hasn't waded through a labyrinth of menu options only to find that the issue can not be solved automatically, and then spent another another half hour on hold because the company doesn't employ enough human beings to help their customers?

Self checkout lines help me avoid making small talk with cashiers, which is a big plus for me.

I hate automated menus, though. My Dad once made me order three pizzas online for a discount of like $1/pizza. It literally took me 30 minutes to work my way through the byzantine menu options to actually get the damn things ordered. I he asks me to do it again, I'm just going to hand him 3 bucks and call the bastards to order.




There just was an article, a gross one on that , that a study was done on all the self order boards at Mc Donalds and Not one single board didnt test for some fecal matter. That is disgusting and those are a total time waste as people just cant seem to figure them out.

DadJokes

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2019, 08:54:28 AM »
The self-checkout lines drive me crazy and I refuse to use them no matter how crowded the store is.

Automated phone menus are another way to pass labor off on the consumer.  Who among us hasn't waded through a labyrinth of menu options only to find that the issue can not be solved automatically, and then spent another another half hour on hold because the company doesn't employ enough human beings to help their customers?

Self checkout lines help me avoid making small talk with cashiers, which is a big plus for me.

I hate automated menus, though. My Dad once made me order three pizzas online for a discount of like $1/pizza. It literally took me 30 minutes to work my way through the byzantine menu options to actually get the damn things ordered. I he asks me to do it again, I'm just going to hand him 3 bucks and call the bastards to order.




There just was an article, a gross one on that , that a study was done on all the self order boards at Mc Donalds and Not one single board didnt test for some fecal matter. That is disgusting and those are a total time waste as people just cant seem to figure them out.

One of my favorite fast food places is Wendy's but I had to stop going there because they use the freestyle coke machine, which has a touch screen to select your beverage. That screen was never clean, and I hated touching it.

Maybe we should all carry styli. Or is it styluses? Spellcheck says both are correct apparently.

Cool Friend

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2019, 08:58:45 AM »
The self-checkout lines drive me crazy and I refuse to use them no matter how crowded the store is.

Automated phone menus are another way to pass labor off on the consumer.  Who among us hasn't waded through a labyrinth of menu options only to find that the issue can not be solved automatically, and then spent another another half hour on hold because the company doesn't employ enough human beings to help their customers?

Self checkout lines help me avoid making small talk with cashiers, which is a big plus for me.


Heh, if it helps, I worked as a cashier for 2 years and most of us hated making small talk with the customers, too.  Imagine saying "Hi, how are you today?" every five minutes for 7 hours.


Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2019, 09:08:19 AM »
The self-checkout lines drive me crazy and I refuse to use them no matter how crowded the store is.

Automated phone menus are another way to pass labor off on the consumer.  Who among us hasn't waded through a labyrinth of menu options only to find that the issue can not be solved automatically, and then spent another another half hour on hold because the company doesn't employ enough human beings to help their customers?

Self checkout lines help me avoid making small talk with cashiers, which is a big plus for me.


Heh, if it helps, I worked as a cashier for 2 years and most of us hated making small talk with the customers, too.  Imagine saying "Hi, how are you today?" every five minutes for 7 hours.

I worked as a cashier for a year during college. That's another reason I use the self-checkout :)

brandon1827

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2019, 09:25:01 AM »
Some stores here have adopted a hybrid approach. They have a few cashier lanes, a few self-check lanes with a conveyor belt for larger carts, and the smaller self-check stations for basket sized amounts. It seems to be doing okay, but I prefer the cashier lanes unless I have just a few items

Zamboni

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2019, 09:36:50 AM »

Yes, we who do self-checkout should get a bit of a lower price.

We wanted to go watch a movie in the theater a few months ago, and we were going to buy the tickets online ahead of time. They added a fee so that it was more expensive to buy the tickets online than to go stand in line and buy them from some minimum wage kid at the counter. What is with that backward-ass thinking?

I agree that it sucks, but they have to pay the website developers and maintainers. Those folks usually make more than the lady in the actual theater ticket booth.

techwiz

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2019, 09:44:14 AM »
Quote
What all my employers do is giving people a free phone with cell phone plan in the expectation that people read and answer emails in the evenings and weekends. That is a time thieve. I have never accepted such a phone.

You are really smart to not fall for that one. Just thinking about the amount time stolen from me for my office cellphone is depressing. On one hand I never had to pay for a cellphone or data plan ,but really it turn out not to be a great deal considering the amount of free work they get from me. Better to have paid for my own phone and plan, leaving the work phone at work. 

fattest_foot

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2019, 11:03:26 AM »
I never though about some of the do-it-yourself as a time thief, but it really can be.  I really like self checkout, as I am fast and efficient in packing my own groceries, but my groceries didn't cost less because I did my own packing, therefore I did the work for free.  Interesting.

Aldi's is basically built on this principle. They offer cheaper groceries because they have fewer employees to stock shelves, bag groceries, or put carts away.

And it's just about the only example I can think of where I actually get a price break due to the lower overhead costs for the company.

If every grocery store with self checkout offered a 2-3% discount off the top, I bet you'd see a lot more people using self checkout. Until they do so, however, there's no reason to use it.

rantk81

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2019, 11:10:39 AM »
Some things I absolutely prefer to do myself.  Self checkout?  Absolutely! I can keep a keen eye out to make sure everything is scanned correctly and is bagged properly.  I prefer the self control of ensuring the job is done right, to my satisfaction.

FIRE Artist

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2019, 11:14:43 AM »
In the work environment, the elimination of secretarial positions is an example of this.  My father used to complain about it, he was an engineer who started his management career with admin support but ended it with a PC and email.

I never had an admin so don’t know the difference. 

Clever Name

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2019, 12:44:18 PM »
Some of that makes sense, but a lot I completely disagree with. For example, self-checkout is usually an enormous time saver. So is self-booking. Plus they have the advantage of not needing to talk to anyone.

Also, if IKEA's furniture was pre-assembled I wouldn't be able to take it home without renting/borrowing a truck or something. Or paying to have it delivered and having to wait longer to receive it than it would take to assemble.

undercover

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2019, 01:27:19 PM »
I have a love/hate relationship with self-checkout but have decided it's ultimately a good thing.

Anything that will get rid of menial jobs and eventually lead us to a profit-sharing society is A-ok in my book. It does suck in the meantime though.

Some of that makes sense, but a lot I completely disagree with. For example, self-checkout is usually an enormous time saver. So is self-booking. Plus they have the advantage of not needing to talk to anyone.

The part that pisses me off is that it IS faster nowadays but only deceptively so since they just don't hire as many cashiers as they should.

If you live in an area with plenty of grocery delivery options (AKA competition), there is honestly no reason to not just get your groceries delivered. The small difference you will pay more than offsets the time lost.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 01:39:53 PM by undercover »

LearnTo

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2019, 01:35:57 PM »
Some stores here have adopted a hybrid approach. They have a few cashier lanes, a few self-check lanes with a conveyor belt for larger carts, and the smaller self-check stations for basket sized amounts. It seems to be doing okay, but I prefer the cashier lanes unless I have just a few items

One of our local grocery stores did away with the self-checkout, I believe on the theory that they could handle all the customers face to face just as well.  However, the result is if you go at off hours when there is only one lane open, they won't open another if I only have 2 items and get behind somebody with 20 or 30.  Infuriating!

gerardc

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2019, 02:46:03 PM »
So much this in the world of insurance.

You're responsible to sign up, give all your info, make your claims with all the documents, police reports, etc. Then they send you a check and try to find everything wrong in your claim. If anything is wrong it is "fraud". They claim to cover you, be there for you, but the only thing they do is pay and try to avoid paying.

Same phenomenon when using an attorney to file immigration forms, or an accountant to file your tax return. You're still responsible to bring all documents, receipts and in many cases enter your cost basis in the proper spreadsheet format, with the proper translations, etc. Then they copy what you gave them in the right format and spot check for errors, that's it. They do the same forms all day every day so they end up knowing what to look for. Such a ridiculous profession. Can't wait for AI to automate out all of those parasites.

Then, some corporate genius comes up with an idea to offload even more of the work to the consumer (DYI) and is lauded for saving the company money, because on paper that is the same final product. And since inflation measures don't take this additional work into account, we all think our money goes further but there's more and more red tape to follow, so the value we get is actually decreasing.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 02:47:42 PM by gerardc »

Clever Name

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2019, 03:18:15 PM »
If you live in an area with plenty of grocery delivery options (AKA competition), there is honestly no reason to not just get your groceries delivered. The small difference you will pay more than offsets the time lost.

I don't do delivery because I do not trust them to check expiration dates, make sure fruits are at just the right level of ripeness, select an appropriate replacement if a particular item is out of stock, etc.

Retireatee1

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2019, 03:34:25 PM »
Self-checkout at Walmart is a drag if you have beer.  Nobody ever shows up to check your ID.

rantk81

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2019, 03:45:11 PM »
If you live in an area with plenty of grocery delivery options (AKA competition), there is honestly no reason to not just get your groceries delivered. The small difference you will pay more than offsets the time lost.

I don't do delivery because I do not trust them to check expiration dates, make sure fruits are at just the right level of ripeness, select an appropriate replacement if a particular item is out of stock, etc.

+1.

In my area, even with the lowest cost option (Instacart + Aldi), it's not worth the extra cost.  With the per-item mark-up, plus the "service charge" plus the "delivery charge" plus the "tip" (which I really feel obligated to pay, since the workers don't make much), it's easily 50% or more pricier.... Plus, yeah, in my experience, it is very hit or miss if they are selective about the quality, OR if they just decide not to get all the quantity of the items you want because they are "heavy".  (E.g. I've ordered quantity of 6 of stuff that I know the store ALWAYS has in excess quantity available... only to receive 2 items.  Happened more than enough times to just be a coincidence.)  From here on out, I do my own shopping. 

profnot

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2019, 07:41:22 PM »
What makes me boiling mad is the use of online forms for people to get social benefits.

Half the US population is under 100 IQ.  Many of them are incapable of completing those forms.  Even if they can get to a library for an internet connection in their off-work hours and get a librarian to help them, the forms are frequently still too complicated.

To get help from a government agent, poor people usually have to travel to an office in the county seat.  In a city in which they cannot afford to live.  Those offices are open Monday - Friday 9 - 5.  Times very hard for minimum wage employees to get off work.  And since they are not ill, they usually have to forfeit pay for most of the day.

Grrrrrr




MilesTeg

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2019, 10:58:44 PM »
You can pry planning things like self booking out if my cold, dead hands. Hhaving to deal with some other human to do those types of tasks is tedious and inefficient.

Self check out.. that's the exact opposite. Having to wait for untrained customers to try to use the machines is a nightmare. Checkers are 10x faster.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 01:10:06 PM by MilesTeg »

undercover

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2019, 11:19:36 PM »
If you live in an area with plenty of grocery delivery options (AKA competition), there is honestly no reason to not just get your groceries delivered. The small difference you will pay more than offsets the time lost.

I don't do delivery because I do not trust them to check expiration dates, make sure fruits are at just the right level of ripeness, select an appropriate replacement if a particular item is out of stock, etc.

+1.

In my area, even with the lowest cost option (Instacart + Aldi), it's not worth the extra cost.  With the per-item mark-up, plus the "service charge" plus the "delivery charge" plus the "tip" (which I really feel obligated to pay, since the workers don't make much), it's easily 50% or more pricier.... Plus, yeah, in my experience, it is very hit or miss if they are selective about the quality, OR if they just decide not to get all the quantity of the items you want because they are "heavy".  (E.g. I've ordered quantity of 6 of stuff that I know the store ALWAYS has in excess quantity available... only to receive 2 items.  Happened more than enough times to just be a coincidence.)  From here on out, I do my own shopping.

I would shop around. Walmart has a pickup service and the pricing is no different than in store. I've never had a problem with poor produce or things expiring too soon...they usually do a good job. Also many regional grocers do their own delivery/pickup services with same/very similar in store pricing and small delivery fees. I never tip these services. At most I pay maybe 10-15% over what I'd pay going straight to the store. But I eat cheap enough that I honestly would rather have the shit delivered than having to deal with going to the store. I still go of course since I don't want to be at home 24/7 ;)

They know if anyone's going to use their service then they have do the best job possible on hiring competent people to grocery shop like they were doing it for their mom. Of course it's also not an all or nothing thing - it's just a great option to have.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2019, 09:00:06 AM »
If you live in an area with plenty of grocery delivery options (AKA competition), there is honestly no reason to not just get your groceries delivered. The small difference you will pay more than offsets the time lost.

I don't do delivery because I do not trust them to check expiration dates, make sure fruits are at just the right level of ripeness, select an appropriate replacement if a particular item is out of stock, etc.

+1.


Same here. My wife did the "Click List" at Kroger a few times so I could pick it up on the way home from work. Last time I went, I waited a whole friggin' hour (no exaggeration) to get them to bring me six bags of groceries. And my wife had meticulously planned the grocery list around items that offered coupon discounts. Somehow, all of the coupon items were out of stock and had to be replaced with similar items at no discount. It's a scam and I refuse to use it again.

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2019, 09:16:36 AM »

Same here. My wife did the "Click List" at Kroger a few times so I could pick it up on the way home from work. Last time I went, I waited a whole friggin' hour (no exaggeration) to get them to bring me six bags of groceries. And my wife had meticulously planned the grocery list around items that offered coupon discounts. Somehow, all of the coupon items were out of stock and had to be replaced with similar items at no discount. It's a scam and I refuse to use it again.

That's the first negative review I've seen for Click List, or any curbside grocery delivery. I never intended to use it, because I forget to put stuff on the grocery list all the time and don't realize it until I see it in the store.

Still, I feel like I wouldn't pay for the alternatives that cost more. Can you not refuse the items that didn't meet the exact specifications?

ender

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2019, 09:19:21 AM »
I had a similar experience at Walmart the time I did the order online and pick up in store option.

Would have been faster for me to just go do it myself.

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2019, 10:03:01 AM »
Self-checkout at Walmart is a drag if you have beer.  Nobody ever shows up to check your ID.
That's for damn sure.  It's one of the main reasons I stopped going to the local Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market grocery store back when I was still drinking.  If you run into a problem with the self checkout there, then good luck finding someone to help.  The better grocery stores keep an attendant stationed to watch out for problems in the self checkout lines at all times.

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2019, 10:10:40 AM »
What makes me boiling mad is the use of online forms for people to get social benefits.

Half the US population is under 100 IQ.  Many of them are incapable of completing those forms.
On a similar note, I wonder how some people are able to navigate the health care system.  I have an engineering degree and I get a headache trying to figure out who's responsible for what percentage of the cost of a medical procedure.  I'll call the healthcare facility and the insurance company and neither one of them can tell me ahead of time what my out of pocket cost will be.  There are so many wasted resources in health care.

ender

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2019, 10:12:51 AM »
What makes me boiling mad is the use of online forms for people to get social benefits.

Half the US population is under 100 IQ.  Many of them are incapable of completing those forms.
On a similar note, I wonder how some people are able to navigate the health care system.  I have an engineering degree and I get a headache trying to figure out who's responsible for what percentage of the cost of a medical procedure.  I'll call the healthcare facility and the insurance company and neither one of them can tell me ahead of time what my out of pocket cost will be.  There are so many wasted resources in health care.

This is 100% what drives me nuts about healthcare right now.

I'm well above average intelligence and it's nearly impossible for me to understand anything healthcare/billing related. It's infuriating to me how this system works - as someone who cares I still can't figure anything out. What chance does someone who doesn't have my initiative/background stand at figuring anything out?

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2019, 12:18:55 PM »

Same here. My wife did the "Click List" at Kroger a few times so I could pick it up on the way home from work. Last time I went, I waited a whole friggin' hour (no exaggeration) to get them to bring me six bags of groceries. And my wife had meticulously planned the grocery list around items that offered coupon discounts. Somehow, all of the coupon items were out of stock and had to be replaced with similar items at no discount. It's a scam and I refuse to use it again.

That's the first negative review I've seen for Click List, or any curbside grocery delivery. I never intended to use it, because I forget to put stuff on the grocery list all the time and don't realize it until I see it in the store.

Still, I feel like I wouldn't pay for the alternatives that cost more. Can you not refuse the items that didn't meet the exact specifications?

Yeah, so technically you can, but then they have to go digging through the bags to find the right items to take back, you have to trust that they're actually going to refund your card for the items they take back, and we actually needed bread and cheese so it's easier to just accept the changes. After waiting an hour, I was in no mood to dicker with the girl who brought the bags out.

My other problem with Click List is the one you brought up - I don't remember everything I need until I walk past it in the aisle. Honestly, grocery shopping is not an unenjoyable task for me as long as I'm not there on a Friday afternoon or a weekend. I don't have a problem that Click List is capable of solving.

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2019, 12:47:30 PM »

Same here. My wife did the "Click List" at Kroger a few times so I could pick it up on the way home from work. Last time I went, I waited a whole friggin' hour (no exaggeration) to get them to bring me six bags of groceries. And my wife had meticulously planned the grocery list around items that offered coupon discounts. Somehow, all of the coupon items were out of stock and had to be replaced with similar items at no discount. It's a scam and I refuse to use it again.

That's the first negative review I've seen for Click List, or any curbside grocery delivery. I never intended to use it, because I forget to put stuff on the grocery list all the time and don't realize it until I see it in the store.

Still, I feel like I wouldn't pay for the alternatives that cost more. Can you not refuse the items that didn't meet the exact specifications?

Yeah, so technically you can, but then they have to go digging through the bags to find the right items to take back, you have to trust that they're actually going to refund your card for the items they take back, and we actually needed bread and cheese so it's easier to just accept the changes. After waiting an hour, I was in no mood to dicker with the girl who brought the bags out.

My other problem with Click List is the one you brought up - I don't remember everything I need until I walk past it in the aisle. Honestly, grocery shopping is not an unenjoyable task for me as long as I'm not there on a Friday afternoon or a weekend. I don't have a problem that Click List is capable of solving.

We are at Aldi the moment it opens on Sunday mornings. It's quite an enjoyable experience to shop when there's no crowd, even with a baby in tow.

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2019, 12:20:00 PM »
Off-hours like Sun morn is the only time to shop. I don't mind shopping, dislike waiting for check out or weaving down the aisles to avoid the crowd and unhappy children.

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2019, 03:34:18 PM »
If you live in an area with plenty of grocery delivery options (AKA competition), there is honestly no reason to not just get your groceries delivered. The small difference you will pay more than offsets the time lost.

I don't do delivery because I do not trust them to check expiration dates, make sure fruits are at just the right level of ripeness, select an appropriate replacement if a particular item is out of stock, etc.

Have you actually ever used any of these services? I use Instacart and Shipt regularly. They are very good with getting you good quality produce and getting exactly what you want. They are in contact with you so you can approve any replacements. If they miss something, get the wrong item, etc, the customer service is very good and they refund your money within a day or two after you report it.

brandon1827

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2019, 08:30:28 AM »
Just checking in to report that Walmart seems to be oblivious to it's members' needs. Our local walmarts do okay most of the time at having the self-check be open and available when they are short staffed or during "low traffic" times. We traveled to another city this past weekend and had to visit the walmart there to look for some swim trunks for my son. We picked out the ones we wanted and went to the front to check out. There were lines that started at the two manned checkouts and went all the way down the front of the store. There were at least 30 people waiting to be checked out. Every single one of the self-check stations was closed. It made no sense whatsoever.

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2019, 09:47:42 AM »
Interesting points, OP.  With regards to self-checkout at the grocery store, I actually overall love ringing up my own stuff.  The lines are almost non-existent, and once you get past the learning curve you're just as fast as the paid baggers. 

Also gone are the days when you have only a few items but the old lady in line in front of you with a cart full of shit takes three minutes to dig out her fucking checkbook only AFTER the cashier has rung up the total after she is done arguing about coupons.  Then takes another two minutes to write the damn check.  Now THAT person is a time thief lol.

I'm scanned, bagged and paid in under a minute usually with self-checkout.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 09:49:40 AM by dignam »

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2019, 10:28:26 AM »
Does no one else here have shops that let you self-scan during the shopping trip? That's the ultimate in time-saving: not only does everything get scanned as you walk around, you also get to pack while shopping. That only leaves a few seconds at the exit to pay. (Once a year I get a random check where a shop employee goes through my purchase to verify that I actually scanned everything.)

But even without that, I've rarely experienced a normal checkout to be faster than self checkouts.

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2019, 10:48:32 AM »
Does no one else here have shops that let you self-scan during the shopping trip? That's the ultimate in time-saving: not only does everything get scanned as you walk around, you also get to pack while shopping. That only leaves a few seconds at the exit to pay. (Once a year I get a random check where a shop employee goes through my purchase to verify that I actually scanned everything.)

But even without that, I've rarely experienced a normal checkout to be faster than self checkouts.

I saw it once, in abroadistan. But I couldn't understand it quickly enough. It seems efficient, until you have an article that won't scan and you look around for an employee to help you with the technical problem. That employee is not always easy to find, also occasionally in the self checkout.

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2019, 04:10:42 PM »

What all my employers do is giving people a free phone with cell phone plan in the expectation that people read and answer emails in the evenings and weekends. That is a time thieve. I have never accepted such a phone.



Futurist Alvin Toffler predicted that advanced technology  would lead to increased leisure time.

Was he correct?

I would say yes and no.

  "The expectation that [employees]  read and answer emails in the evenings and weekends" is among the reasons that weigh in favor of no.











« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 04:13:57 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Time Thieves
« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2019, 04:49:23 PM »
Ohh those are some very good points and thoughts. 

The healthcare.gov one really resonates with me :).

I never thought about some of the do-it-yourself as a time thief, but it really can be.  I really like self checkout, as I am fast and efficient in packing my own groceries, but my groceries didn't cost less because I did my own packing, therefore I did the work for free.  Interesting.

I got that healthcare.gov from your post. :-)

Yes, we who do self-checkout should get a bit of a lower price. I have used it often. But last time, I wanted to buy a vegetable that I couldn't weigh on the scales. I tried for almost 10 minutes and there was no one to ask. Eventually I just left it. But in total it would have been faster if I would have been in the normal checkout queue.

If the  cashier-checkout queues are long I use self-checkout at my local grocery store. I never use self-checkout at stores I shop at infrequently.

If the self-checkout scale doesn't  weigh produce correctly one of the   baggers promptly keys it in, which fulfills the shopper-convenience purpose of self-checkout.

There is no discount for items checked out through  self-checkout.





« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 04:55:46 PM by John Galt incarnate! »