Author Topic: Time Off For Baby  (Read 7372 times)

FrugalEsq.

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Time Off For Baby
« on: September 09, 2013, 03:31:35 PM »
My husband and I recently had our one and only baby in May, 2013.  After my four months of state maternity benefits were up, I expected to go back to work.  Unfortunately, my law firm downsized while I was out and I am now unemployed. 

Has anyone had any experience with taking a year or two off to raise a baby?  I am considering taking some time off, but I am concerned about getting back into the job market if I am out for too long.  I would be giving up $100k income, give or take, for every year that I am out, which did account for 60% of our household income.  If I don't work, we will be lucky to stash $500-$1000 per month.

Is it better to look for a part time/contract job so that I don't have a significant gap in employment?  My husband works from home and we have some flexibility with day care and hours if I work part time. 

Carrie

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2013, 03:50:29 PM »
If you can get part time or contract work, I really do think this is the perfect solution.  I work contract hours from home (I will start to go into the office 2-3 days/week once the youngest kid starts full time preschool).  It's enough work to keep my foot in the door, and to boost our savings rate.  I get enough hours to make it worth keeping my license valid and to stay current in my field.
For now I am averaging 8-10 hours per week to bill, but I'm only paying $115/mo for a morning program 2x per week.  I will increase my hours to 20-25 in another year or so, and then probably top out at 30 hours per week when both kids are in full time school.

I took two years off with my first baby, and then started getting word out that I was available for contract work.  By the time my oldest was in 5 day/week preschool, I had three clients and was filling all of my available time.  I scaled back when I got pregnant with my second and only kept one client; then took a little over a year off completely.  Now with an 18 month old, I'm back to 10 hours per week and will add hours when he gets into preschool. 

I would be very hesitant to take any more time off than I already have (1-2 years off per infant); and I am very hesitant to increase my hours beyond 25-30, as I'd like to be home every afternoon when the kids get home from school and I don't want our home life to be stressful.  To me that's part of being financially secure is to have this flexibility right now not to have to work 40-60 hour work weeks.

I hope you find the perfect balance for you!  I really feel like we've found our perfect balance.

Jen

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2013, 03:51:06 PM »
What is the demand like for your practice area?  (I'm assuming you are an attorney based on your name, the fact that you work at a law firm and your salary.)  How long have you been practicing?  In my practice area, with sufficient experience, I think I could get away with taking a couple of years back and finding another good job; however, I think it would be preferable to find contract or part-time work for another 5 years or so and get to the point where you truly didn't need a second income (assuming you do now).  If you've only been practicing for a year or two or if there's not as much demand for your practice area, I would be even more hesitant of stepping away.  That said, I'm sure you could find something after a couple of years - you just might not get full credit for the years you have put in up to this point. 


FrugalEsq.

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2013, 04:55:21 PM »
Carrie, thanks.  It sounds like you have a great setup.

Jen, yes, I am an attorney.  I have 9 years of experience, but in a highly specialized field that is struggling (construction defect).  Most likely, I will try personal injury or something else for the next round.
Unfortunately, I didn't have MMM's blog to read when I first entered the working world.  My husband and I just started saving money about three years ago, when we got married.  I still have a student loan. (We could pay it off with savings, but the interest rate is only 2.14%.  Our retirement plan is to buy rental properties and live off the rent, so we just started stockpiling cash until we find our next place).  So I will need to work at least 5-10 more years before one of us will have the option of staying home.

imustachemystash

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2013, 10:15:59 PM »
Hi.  I took 6 months off after having my first baby.  After that I went back to work 3 days a week.  Then I had my second baby and took 5 months off.  I went back to work 2 days a week for about 4 months but found it was hard to squeeze all my duties into 2 days.  Now I am back to working 3 days a week.  I'm a speech-language pathologist.  Financially we can afford for me to stay home full time, but I want to maintain my skills.  I also like doing something to challenge my mind.  Try to look for something part time if you can afford to because then you will still be there for your baby and there won't be any big gaps in your resume.
 

Daleth

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2013, 11:35:52 AM »
Congratulations on the baby!

I would be giving up $100k income, give or take, for every year that I am out, which did account for 60% of our household income.  If I don't work, we will be lucky to stash $500-$1000 per month.
 

You wouldn't be giving up $100k income (BTW is that before or after taxes?). You'd be giving up $100k (or much less if that's the pre-tax figure) minus the cost of the childcare you would need to permit you to work full-time (easily $12k-$15k), and also minus the incidental costs of working (new work clothes as needed; commuting/parking, plus other costs if you need an additional car; buying lunch, unless you pack it every day). My SIL worked from home when her first baby was young and it was not possible for her to get much of anything done unless she had someone there watching the child for her while she worked. They hired a nanny. I mention this in case you were thinking that having your husband work from home would save you the cost of hiring childcare.

Is it better to look for a part time/contract job so that I don't have a significant gap in employment?  My husband works from home and we have some flexibility with day care and hours if I work part time.

That sounds like it could be a good idea, depending on your circumstances (hassle factor, cost of childcare/commute/incidentals, etc.).
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 11:38:55 AM by Daleth »

cynthia1848

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2013, 01:49:30 PM »
Just a thought - did your old firm just lay you off, or did they replace you with someone else?  If the latter, have you looked into suing them or did you sign a settlement/severance agreement?

I agree that if you get out of the workforce, it could take a while to get back in.  You could also hang out a shingle while simultaneously looking for another job, so that there is no employment gap.

Jen

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2013, 03:17:32 PM »
With 9 years of experience, I would think you would be very marketable, even in a more challenging practice area.  Are you an experienced litigator?  Either way, I think you could work with your network and hopefully find some great part-time or contract work.  I think that would be preferable to stepping away for a couple of years entirely - keep your skills fresh, etc.  You might even be able to team up with a solo practitioner closer to retirement age who is looking to phase his/her practice down. 

Congratulations on the baby, and best of luck.  I'm sure it will all work out well!

sleepyguy

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2013, 10:42:17 PM »
Damn, not much to add but US is pretty cut-throat!  Canada is much much better in this regard... we're allowed 1yr parental leave (but on EI, which kinda sucks) and have to be gauranteed a job with same salary upon return.  Some companies 'top-up' so the employee gets a year of full pay (very far and few between).

As mentioned hopefully you land something soon... child care can be quite expensive.  Also enjoy and congrats on the newborn!  We just had our 2nd kid not too long ago.

FrugalEsq.

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2013, 07:38:11 PM »
Just a thought - did your old firm just lay you off, or did they replace you with someone else?  If the latter, have you looked into suing them or did you sign a settlement/severance agreement?

It was a layoff.  The firm went from 6 associates to 1 while I was out.  Others saw the writing on the wall and bailed before getting laid off.  To my knowledge, they have not hired anyone new.  I am keeping an eye out for that, though.  I didn't sign off on anything on my way out the door.

FrugalEsq.

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2013, 07:43:11 PM »
With 9 years of experience, I would think you would be very marketable, even in a more challenging practice area.  Are you an experienced litigator?  You might even be able to team up with a solo practitioner closer to retirement age who is looking to phase his/her practice down. 

I only needed to go to trial a few times, I am a good negotiator and most of my cases settled.  :)  I have considered doing my own thing as well.  Marketing is expensive, and cases are expert-driven.  I do have experts lined up and willing to give me a line of credit.

Daleth

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2013, 10:25:26 AM »
Why would you need experts to give you a line of credit? Shouldn't their fees be covered by the client? Or do you mean credit to tide you over for the month or two lag between when the expert bills you and when the client pays you?

Rebecca Stapler

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2013, 11:02:37 AM »
I agree that you're very marketable with 9 years of experience, and although the substantive experience may be construction defects, your skills are very transferrable -- even though you didn't go to trial often, you are probably well-versed in pre-trial motions, negotiation skills, case development, bringing in business, working with experts, etc.

In addition to losing $100k/year in salary (minus expenses of working), you are also losing out on your future salary, and whatever premium you would be making if you had more years on the job. Sheryl Sandburg discusses this in Lean In -- a great book that might help you think about this decision from a different perspective.

That said, as a mom to a 3 year old, my ideal work situation (if I could afford it) would be to work part-time. Being home with baby is challenging! It's nice to go to work, be able to use the bathroom whenever you want, and use the non-mom part of your brain. If you are looking to make a substantive change in your legal career, finding a practice that will take a chance on you as a part-time associate is a great way to learn, although I wouldn't expect that a 0.5 FTE salary would be half of what you made at the firm. Although, if you're collecting unemployment it's hard to justify going to work part time to make the same amount you're making in unemployment. I would let that run out before going back to work ;)

FrugalEsq.

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2013, 09:08:44 PM »
Why would you need experts to give you a line of credit? Shouldn't their fees be covered by the client? Or do you mean credit to tide you over for the month or two lag between when the expert bills you and when the client pays you?

Firms advance all costs until a case resolves, then the costs are deducted from the settlement or judgment.  Most cases are on a 1 - 2 year resolution track, but can take up to 3 or 4 years to complete if there are major problems.  Most cases have multiple owners suing a mass builder, so expert fees can easily run up to $25,000 for a small case or six figures for a bigger one.

FrugalEsq.

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2013, 09:13:06 PM »

That said, as a mom to a 3 year old, my ideal work situation (if I could afford it) would be to work part-time. Being home with baby is challenging! It's nice to go to work, be able to use the bathroom whenever you want, and use the non-mom part of your brain. If you are looking to make a substantive change in your legal career, finding a practice that will take a chance on you as a part-time associate is a great way to learn, although I wouldn't expect that a 0.5 FTE salary would be half of what you made at the firm. Although, if you're collecting unemployment it's hard to justify going to work part time to make the same amount you're making in unemployment. I would let that run out before going back to work ;)
[/quote]

I will look for a copy of the book you suggested, thank you for the recommendation. 

I totally agree that being a full time care giver is challenging.  I have a whole new appreciation for stay at home parents.  :)

Daleth

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2013, 09:12:45 AM »
Firms advance all costs until a case resolves, then the costs are deducted from the settlement or judgment.  Most cases are on a 1 - 2 year resolution track, but can take up to 3 or 4 years to complete if there are major problems.  Most cases have multiple owners suing a mass builder, so expert fees can easily run up to $25,000 for a small case or six figures for a bigger one.

Yikes. I'm 99% certain that my firm never does it that way, for the obvious reason that if don't settle and then you lose the case, there won't be any judgment or settlement to deduct expert fees from. And in that case, clients would prefer to have paid over time (as the expert did the work, or in installments) rather than being whacked with a giant bill at the end. Why do you do it that way? I can understand that approach in the personal injury context, where most of the time you're dealing with clients whose income is average or even low and you absolutely require a medical opinion; I've seen PI firms advertise that they charge the clients nothing (presumably including expert fees) unless they win, so obviously they must use the same approach you're describing when it comes to experts. But if you're representing either "multiple owners" or the builder, couldn't they pay some costs as they're incurred?

FrugalEsq.

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2013, 06:07:55 PM »
Yikes. I'm 99% certain that my firm never does it that way, for the obvious reason that if don't settle and then you lose the case, there won't be any judgment or settlement to deduct expert fees from. And in that case, clients would prefer to have paid over time (as the expert did the work, or in installments) rather than being whacked with a giant bill at the end. Why do you do it that way? I can understand that approach in the personal injury context, where most of the time you're dealing with clients whose income is average or even low and you absolutely require a medical opinion; I've seen PI firms advertise that they charge the clients nothing (presumably including expert fees) unless they win, so obviously they must use the same approach you're describing when it comes to experts. But if you're representing either "multiple owners" or the builder, couldn't they pay some costs as they're incurred?
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Various plaintiff attorneys in the industry had discussed going to a retainer agreement for legal services, but I haven't seen any firm actually make the switch for the mass action cases.  I think everyone worries to much whether homeowners would bother to sue if they had to front costs.  Our cases are similar to accident cases in that the expert opinion is required to identify the extent of defects and a cost of repair to resolve the problems.  Good attorneys can evaluate the cases up front and have a pretty good idea whether "recoverable" problems exist. 
Some owners of expensive homes are willing to pay as they go, especially those who drop hundreds of thousands for remodeling jobs.  Middle class homeowners though seem to prefer the attorney firm take the risk and to handle the details of which experts to hire, etc.

Daleth

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2013, 06:21:33 PM »
I hear you. That makes sense. I guess it also makes sense to continue in the line of work you're so experienced in, but I do wonder if there's some way for you to apply your legal knowledge and skills that doesn't require so much capital (or debt) on your end?

happy

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2013, 07:02:57 AM »
I took 6 months off with each of my babies then went back part-time. 18 years later I'm still part-time. But I'm a physician, not a lawyer.  I suspect though that "staying out" too long is problematic in most fields.  In my country now we have "recency of practice" requirements that make staying out of the medical workforce for extended periods of time difficult.

Totoro might come by here and offer her experience :): she is a self employed lawyer who works part-time.

totoro

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2013, 08:04:00 PM »
I don't know what is right for you, but, it is quite likely you will not regret taking time off to be with your child.  The goal is not just FI, but happiness all through life.  I often think of this: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-five-regrets-of-the-dying when I'm making changes.

I worked FT for only four years before leaving my firm and going PT.  It was because I wanted to have more autonomy and spend time with my children and it just wasn't possible to do this while working for a firm.  I make way more money now for way less work.  I am quite business minded though, and an out of the box kind of thinker.  Many lawyers are not like this and would feel quite anxious without a stable work environment and support system.  You need to know yourself. 

Take the Meyer's Briggs if you haven't already.  I'm INTJ/INFJ - mostly a mastermind.  The colours test is good too:  http://www.truecolorscareer.com/quiz.asp  If you are highest in gold on this test you might be happier not working for yourself.  Lots of lawyers are gold first.

Anyway, I figured a way to create a virtual practice in 2007, which meant my overhead was almost zero.  A virtual practice does not suit every type of law, but owning a small office yourself might work out just fine.  The key for me to an easier path was having niche expertise delivered in a cost-effective manner.  For you, having a business plan will be key if you continue in the same type of practice.

I think you should do a vision board to understand what you want your life to be like with work and children.  Research what other working women are doing in law in your practice area to manage the work/life balance.  Seek out connections with the ones that seem to be happy.

My vision board showed that I wanted close relationships, to be able to attend my children's school and sports events, a good income, not too much stress and the idea that my work was helping in some way.  All the things I wrote on my vision board are true today.  There is quite a bit of power in writing from your heart and using your lawyer analytical skill set to get to your goals.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 08:14:34 PM by totoro »

RootofGood

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Re: Time Off For Baby
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2013, 02:36:20 PM »
FrugalEsq,

I just posted a blog article at my rootofgood.com blog that gives some good pointers to answer your questions in your first post. 

http://rootofgood.com/sabbatical-mid-career-break-retired/

I won't rewrite the article, but there is advice to get you set short term as you leave employment, and longer term to prepare you to re-enter a career.  For you, since you'll be taking care of the kids if you take time off for a few years, you'll have an easy explanation to interviewers, and obviously don't need to put anything about "stay at home mom" on your resume.