Thryve gut health—anyone done this?

[4tify]

I’ve been reading more about gut health, especially as it relates to happiness. Thinking about having a test run.

Has anyone gone down this rabbit hole? If so have you seen measurable results?

[Metalcat]

Here's a decent overview/review of the service.

https://www.wellnessverge.com/thryve-gut-health-review

In the end though, anything to do with gut health is going to be trial and error, so if the treatment is to try different probiotics, then you could just do that and see if anything makes you feel better. I really dislike that they don't disclose the probiotics that they actually send you, and that there's no actual protocol for retesting. It all seems very hand wavy.

I would personally much prefer to be empirical about it, do a proper elimination diet and food/symptom journal, and introduce probiotic supplements systematically.

[ixtap]

I second Malcat.

Gut health science is in its infancy and there is a LOT of woo disguising itself as scientific drivel. Often we have identified methods that work, but not the reasoning. Elimination diets are a good example. Many people have food triggers (not necessarily the fad ones, either: mine is spinach). It doesn't necessarily mean that they have leaky gut syndrome (permeability of the intestines), which itself probably has little to do with the description you will find alongside many elimination diet guidelines. The methodology of a good elimination diet can be a good health tool, anyway.

[Metalcat]

I second Malcat.

Gut health science is in its infancy and there is a LOT of woo disguising itself as scientific drivel. Often we have identified methods that work, but not the reasoning. Elimination diets are a good example. Many people have food triggers (not necessarily the fad ones, either: mine is spinach). It doesn't necessarily mean that they have leaky gut syndrome (permeability of the intestines), which itself probably has little to do with the description you will find alongside many elimination diet guidelines. The methodology of a good elimination diet can be a good health tool, anyway.

Exactly, I don't see this as any different than practitioners who order IGG tests for "food sensitivities" and then end up putting people on elimination diets.

We have things we can test, sure, but we don't have advanced enough science to actually know how to interpret them in a meaningful or actionable way.

So just because a lab can measure bacteria in shit or immune reactions in blood doesn't mean that anyone has a clue what that actually means for an individual's health.

As a former scientist, I really hate scientism, and this seems like classic scientism.

It can't really hurt though, and high quality probiotics are great, so I see nothing wrong with trying it. I just advise being realistic about what the test interpretations actually mean.

[Luke Warm]

the whole gut-brain thing is pretty fascinating. do i feel like shit because my stomach hurts or does my stomach hurt because i feel like shit?

[joe189man]

I have done the Viome tests a couple times to test gut health. its a interesting service they send you a kit to collect a sample, you collect, and mail back in then wait a few weeks. they have a website and an app to share your results. they provide food recommendations like foods to avoid and super foods,  based upon your gut bacteria, viruses, and fungal situation, and provide lots of other things like stress respons, immune health, etc.

i like it as you can see where your gut bacteria is at good or bad, implement some of the recommendations and re test to see if you have any improvements or changes.

the food recommendations are great especially the what to avoid, i saw benefits from that.

i would recommend it and may do it again soon

[jrhampt]

I have IBS and swung between constipation and diarrhea for a lot of my twenties and thirties.  I got some allergy tests done and don't have any notable food allergies or lactose intolerance, so I started taking a daily probiotic (digestive advantage) and occasionally peppermint pills (Heather's tummy tamers) on the advice of the gastroenterologist if I eat too much garlic or something that makes my stomach unhappy.  I also take magnesium glycinate at night for sleep and regularity in the morning :-) .  Red wine for prebiotics, nuts and avocado for fiber, and plenty of exercise also helps (getting into some fringe stuff, I swear by twenty minutes in front of my red light panels to make me poop in the morning if my morning run doesn't do the job).  Sticking to this routine, my stomach is the best it's ever been and I go through very long stretches when I don't even think about it.  I don't think I'd bother with this Thryve program specifically because I wanted to be happy or to fix a digestive issue unless I'd tried other stuff first. Like a gastroenterologist for digestive problems and sunshine+exercise for happiness.  Test results could be interesting though.

[Captain Cactus]

I've found probiotics to be interesting... one would think that introducing billions of good bacteria per day in capsule form would have a long lasting impact on your gut.  But they don't last...they just seem to pass on through.  Is there any way to make the good bacteria from probiotics actually remain in the gut long term and make long-term, positive changes to the microbiome? 

[Rusted Rose]

I've found probiotics to be interesting... one would think that introducing billions of good bacteria per day in capsule form would have a long lasting impact on your gut.  But they don't last...they just seem to pass on through.  Is there any way to make the good bacteria from probiotics actually remain in the gut long term and make long-term, positive changes to the microbiome?

I am no expert, but wouldn't they stay for the diet they prefer if it's there consistently? In other words, we'll get good bacteria if we eat what they want. If we put them there but don't serve their favorites, I can imagine that they'll walk out of the restaurant. ;)

[4tify]

Well I ordered it for “half off” just to see. Mostly curiosity as I agree with @Malcat this is new territory.

I looked at their list of all the wonderful critters and they can all be had consuming regular old food. Go figure. Red wine apparently rules in this area, which is kind of a drag since I’m trying to cut back.

[maizefolk]

I've found probiotics to be interesting... one would think that introducing billions of good bacteria per day in capsule form would have a long lasting impact on your gut.  But they don't last...they just seem to pass on through.  Is there any way to make the good bacteria from probiotics actually remain in the gut long term and make long-term, positive changes to the microbiome?

A colleague once explaining taking most probiotics as "trying to permanently change a ecosystem by releasing a truckload of bunnies into the amazon rainforest."

Generally, a person's current gut bacteria are actually really well adapted to living in their particular gut, metabolizing the types of things that person tends to eat. Bacteria used in probiotic supplements are specifically selected against ones which will be effective invaders that can displace the native bacterial taxa (e.g. pathogens).

If you want a big and long term change in the ecology of your gut, the most effective strategies I've seen are to combine probiotic supplementation with a big change in diet and/or a long term commitment to supplementing with prebiotic fibers. If a person changes what types of material are coming through their gut on a day to day basis, they're going to create a bunch of new ecological niches that bacteria in a probiotic supplement may be able to move into long term.

[Rusted Rose]

all the wonderful critters and they can all be had consuming regular old food.

That's what I was hinting at above, yes. And maizefolk as well.

I myself wouldn't bother with most supplements anyway...they often sound like they make sense but turn out not to be very effectual for a variety of reasons, and sometimes they aim at solving problems that we don't actually have. There can be exceptions here and there, of course, and everyone's mileage may vary.

[jrhampt]

all the wonderful critters and they can all be had consuming regular old food.

That's what I was hinting at above, yes. And maizefolk as well.

I myself wouldn't bother with most supplements anyway...they often sound like they make sense but turn out not to be very effectual for a variety of reasons, and sometimes they aim at solving problems that we don't actually have. There can be exceptions here and there, of course, and everyone's mileage may vary.

Idk, but I had really excellent results with my daily probiotic and I swear by it.  It was a desperate measure on my part when I was having constant horrible stomach issues one vacation that got really bad; it really calmed my stomach down.  But I had also gone through a couple courses of antibiotics for some UTIs and rosacea so it's possible that I just needed to jumpstart getting it back into balance, who knows.

[9patch]

Is this a great excuse to keep on drinking red wine? I like it.

Let us know how it goes.

I've read a bit about gut health, and now focus on prebiotics. I do notice that my energy and happiness do fluctuate a lot depending on my diet.

[Rusted Rose]

all the wonderful critters and they can all be had consuming regular old food.

That's what I was hinting at above, yes. And maizefolk as well.

I myself wouldn't bother with most supplements anyway...they often sound like they make sense but turn out not to be very effectual for a variety of reasons, and sometimes they aim at solving problems that we don't actually have. There can be exceptions here and there, of course, and everyone's mileage may vary.

Idk, but I had really excellent results with my daily probiotic and I swear by it.  It was a desperate measure on my part when I was having constant horrible stomach issues one vacation that got really bad; it really calmed my stomach down.  But I had also gone through a couple courses of antibiotics for some UTIs and rosacea so it's possible that I just needed to jumpstart getting it back into balance, who knows.

Cause and effect with some dietary interventions is notoriously hard to sort out, yes. And though we now know that antibiotics have a serious effect on the gut biome, that's a fairly recent realization. In any case, good to know you are ticking along well.

[DirtDiva]

N=1

I had horrendous wind for months after undergoing chemo, radiation to the pelvis, and 3 surgeries with their attendant prophylactic antibiotics.  Killed the critters?

It completely resolved after a month of taking a daily probiotic.    I dunno, I’m just glad the prehistoric sounds coming from my anus went away.

[partgypsy]

So, I used to study this a little, in particular how cancer treatment can mess with taste, smell, entire digestive system. So yes there are things that can happen (chemo, radiation, antibiotics, certain illnesses) that can affect your biome. And yes even if you take probiotics, but don't have a diet that "feeds" the bacteria it won't last. A fecal transplant does last longer (currently only done for c. Diff infections, but I wouldn't be surprised if its prescribed for crohns disease in the future) So if your biome is wiped out or otherwise impoverished (cesarean section, being bottle-fed, not being allowed to play in the dirt. Western diet) sure take the probiotics but Also basically eating a lot more foods that are essentially high in fiber (vegetables of all kinds, mushrooms, fruit with peels, legumes and seeds etc, fermented foods). I'm really glad to hear about the red wine. I love red wine. Anyways while you shouldn't eat things you are allergic to or give you problems, in general the digestive system works as a use it or lose it system. If you stop eating meat, after awhile it will be harder to digest meat. Same with dairy. Same with going from low fiber to high fiber diet. But in general the digestive system can adapt.