This quarantine shit’s getting real

[Freedomin5]

We gave our best shot at it for 2 months, and at some point we had to begin manufacturing, seeing, doing business, trading, building treating and whatever else was on pause.

I'm sorry that was your 'best shot'. 

Quite a few countries around the world seem to have done considerably better by a long shot.  And their supposed 'shutdowns' weren't as extensive as China's.

This is a shitshow for so very many nations and people, but for the 'leader of the free world' (country, not Pres) there are other/ additional things that could have been done (and still could be), and done better, and throwing up your hands / proclaiming 'gave it our best shot' is just risible (in a tragic, non-funny way).

Agree.

Also, please don’t make statements about how it’s like in China unless you are actually in China experiencing all of this. Wherever you are getting your information about what is going on in China is extremely biased. I’m actually in China now and have been in China for nine years, and what you described in your post is not accurate. It may be happening here and there, but I can promise you that the gates of my complex have not been welded shut, and that the majority of the people here have freedom to move about and go about their daily life.

[SisterX]

That was quite the strawman you guys set up there. Really quickly too, well done.

I never said we should have a "total lockdown". Of course we need people to keep water running and all of that. And there were plans in place for how to keep things running in such a situation! We had them! There was a whole fuckin' playbook left by the Obama administration! For what? To what end?

And seriously, that was our best shot at a lockdown? A half-assed, poorly planned, state-by-state response? It wasn't long enough. Non-essential travel wasn't restricted. Rules weren't enforced. We were given SHIT advice by the administration, which still changes pretty much daily and constantly contradicts what actual epidemiologists and doctors are telling us to do. This was a terrible response. My DOG could have done a better job at coordinating a lockdown.* If you think that was a good response to this...well. There's no argument because you're just going to think what you want to think rather than looking at the clear evidence of what other countries did that worked.

Who said it should have been done in January? YES. At the very least we should have a) restricted travel faster and harder than we did (more countries) and b) had someone who's not an incompetent nincompoop in the WH, ignoring his own fucking intelligence agencies and the CDC who were saying this was a big deal. Those two items alone would have helped enormously.

But don't worry--they're shutting down more testing sites so now we'll know even less about how bad things are really getting in the U.S. Can't wait! Apparently when the orange phlegm wad said he wanted less testing it turns out he wasn't joking, as many of his defenders claimed.

*But seriously, he has anxiety and doesn't like to be far from home. More people should be like him right now.

[PDXTabs]

Quite a few countries around the world seem to have done considerably better by a long shot. 

Quite a few countries had real world experience with SARs and already had testing, tracing, and PPE on day one. That could have been us if George W Bush, Obama, or Trump had prepared us.

[chemistk]

That was quite the strawman you guys set up there. Really quickly too, well done.

I didn't mean to lambaste you for a particular line of thought - my earlier post (about the unrealistic expectations around shutting down the whole country completely) was addressed toward anyone who could be reading (or is otherwise curious) about how unfathomable it would be to do so in our current climate. I do not assume you hold these views or are naive to the realities that we face in our country's inflexibility.

In general, I also agree with you in that we could have done a heck of a better job. I think much of this particular flavor of the discussion has been carried out in the earlier sections of the Covid threads, so I won't elaborate further.

[Kris]

Quite a few countries around the world seem to have done considerably better by a long shot. 

Quite a few countries had real world experience with SARs and already had testing, tracing, and PPE on day one. That could have been us if George W Bush, Obama, or Trump had prepared us.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/default/files/microsites/ostp/NSTC/towards_epidemic_prediction-federal_efforts_and_opportunities.pdf

[GuitarStv]

Quite a few countries around the world seem to have done considerably better by a long shot. 

Quite a few countries had real world experience with SARs and already had testing, tracing, and PPE on day one. That could have been us if George W Bush, Obama, or Trump had prepared us.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/default/files/microsites/ostp/NSTC/towards_epidemic_prediction-federal_efforts_and_opportunities.pdf

Yeah, I call bullshit on the blaming previous presidents.  The US had preparations in place.  The stupid man currently leading the US dismantled them and ignored his experts.

Thanks Obama!

[Zamboni]

I'm at a loss at this point. Cases and deaths where I live are now surging. The curve is quite steeply going up. . .

Oh, and college football is ramping back up! Yay? Boots on the ground say Clemson football has now tested it's players 3 times each. First round revealed three positives. Two weeks later they are up to 23 players positive and 5 coaches (that was the report to the media), but the player we know there said there are already more cases than that. Bama reportedly has 40 players who are now positive. Roll Tide!

In the most Alabama press conference ever, Gov. MeeMaw talked about saving the football and then quoted a bible verse.  And no one listened.  Maybe if Saban came out and told everyone to wear masks then they would listen.  The mayor of Tuscaloosa came out recently and said that the city absolutely can't survive the loss of a football season.

Lol Gov. MeeMaw! She totally is that! You are right that Saban is the only person who could scold Bama fans into behaving properly and get them to listen. Fortunately for the fans, pretty much all of the  COVID-positive players are asymptomatic from what I am hearing. Doesn't mean they will stay that way or that no damage is being done to their insides, but money machine of big time football will likely carry on in any case.

[bigblock440]

Quite a few countries around the world seem to have done considerably better by a long shot. 

Quite a few countries had real world experience with SARs and already had testing, tracing, and PPE on day one. That could have been us if George W Bush, Obama, or Trump had prepared us.

W did, or at least started to.  It was the other two that didn't replenish the stockpile or really care that much about pandemics.

[talltexan]

disclosing: I am a consistent Trump opponent, but I really try my best to set aside my biases. It feels like this problem has exposed Trump's flaws pretty badly.

• Trump consistently projects an attitude of not wanting to test people because the numbers might make him look bad
• Trump put Mike Pence in charge of the Corona Virus task force instead of, you know, someone with infectious disease expertise
• Trump did implement that Travel ban, but it was only for non-US citizens, and Trump's bans look an awful lot like immigration policy he's wanted all along
• Trump has consistently disinvested in resources and personnel that would have been useful during this pandemic
• Trump shows poor discipline in his messaging, promoting Hydroxychloroquine, the bleach thing, etc.
• Trump's disregard for the safety of people who wish to appear at his own political events, including the Tulsa rally and the RNC
• I've made an exhaustive search, and I cannot find any evidence of Trump expressing empathy for the 120,000 dead from this illness. How could a person not feel this, not be moved by this catastrophe.

It's possible to believe Trump will be better for the economy, or on law/judges than Biden. The stock market will probably not go up as fast if Biden wins in November, and it's hard to see how he can because the q3 rebound will make economic data look fantastic.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

...
It's possible to believe Trump will be better for the economy, or on law/judges than Biden. The stock market will probably not go up as fast if Biden wins in November, and it's hard to see how he can because the q3 rebound will make economic data look fantastic.

It's far from being a foregone conclusion that Q3 will look fantastic.  Texas is teetering on the brink of shutting back down, and either way, the coronavirus is headed back up in over half the US states.  Hardly a backdrop for a massive rebound or anything that will look impressive YoY.

[dougules]

...
It's possible to believe Trump will be better for the economy, or on law/judges than Biden. The stock market will probably not go up as fast if Biden wins in November, and it's hard to see how he can because the q3 rebound will make economic data look fantastic.

It's far from being a foregone conclusion that Q3 will look fantastic.  Texas is teetering on the brink of shutting back down, and either way, the coronavirus is headed back up in over half the US states.  Hardly a backdrop for a massive rebound or anything that will look impressive YoY.

On top of that, the pandemic is directly changing voter demographics.  The pandemic has already killed 3000 people in Florida alone.  How would that have affected the 2000 election of this had happened then?  The chances of this election also being really close is pretty good.

[talltexan]

The only reasonable answer about Florida in 2000 is that everything affects it. Every single thing. it was a perfect example of a close election in which our abilities to produce an accurate count were not up to the task.

Of course, saying that the vote count was essentially a tie is not the same thing as saying that the election should have been: Had the Supreme Court not intervened, the Florida legislature would most likely have, and awarded the electoral votes to Bush anyway.

You may suspect from my username that I was living in Texas at the time, and this is true. However, I recently listened to an excellent podcast called "Fiasco" by Leon Neyfakh about this Florida issue, and it was enlightening.

[PDXTabs]

Quite a few countries around the world seem to have done considerably better by a long shot. 

Quite a few countries had real world experience with SARs and already had testing, tracing, and PPE on day one. That could have been us if George W Bush, Obama, or Trump had prepared us.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/default/files/microsites/ostp/NSTC/towards_epidemic_prediction-federal_efforts_and_opportunities.pdf

Quite a few countries around the world seem to have done considerably better by a long shot. 

Quite a few countries had real world experience with SARs and already had testing, tracing, and PPE on day one. That could have been us if George W Bush, Obama, or Trump had prepared us.

W did, or at least started to.  It was the other two that didn't replenish the stockpile or really care that much about pandemics.

Both of these efforts pale in comparison to what Hong Kong, Singapore, and South Korea accomplished. Of course it helps that they all have functional federal bureaucracies and health care systems.

[SisterX]

It's hard to see how Q3 will be amazing when we're still getting nearly 1.5 million new jobless claims each week in the midst of reopening everything. Pardon me if I don't think that seems like it's setting up a V-shaped or even U-shaped recovery.

Just because the stock market is still flying high doesn't mean the economy is doing well. Isn't the stock market a lagging indicator in the economy?

[MudPuppy]

A friend of mine likes to call it the "rich people feelings graph"

[Wrenchturner]

My mother wants to go on a roadtrip with my grandmother to visit some family members who might not even appreciate the visit.  She thinks it's okay because the retirement home is now permitting departures up to 24 hours.  As if a virus wears a stopwatch...

And she wants me to come along.  To sit in a car for eight hours, and combine three households in a single car.  No, I don't think so.  Not fun, not worth it, not safe.

[economista]

My mom is coming to visit for 5 days at the end of July. I’ve lived in my current state for 11 years and she has never visited before, but this time around she is actually coming, when there is a pandemic going on. She doesn’t social distance or believe in masks and we have toyed with the idea of asking her to quarantine herself for 2 weeks prior to her visit, but I know she won’t do it and bringing it up will just piss her off.

Then yesterday SIL called and said since her vacation got cancelled she and her husband will be taking a road trip from IN to ND, SD, MT, and they want to swing through CO to stay with us for a few days. They would arrive the day my mom leaves and stay 2-3 days before heading home.

We love our family and we really miss them, but we cancelled our summer plans to visit them for a reason. It isn’t safe to travel right now. We have a baby with complex medical issues and I’m pregnant again. But the others don’t see the problem. Luckily neither of them are from counties that have had huge case loads, but they could pick it up in the airport / on the road trip and then bring it into our house :(

[OtherJen]

My mom is coming to visit for 5 days at the end of July. I’ve lived in my current state for 11 years and she has never visited before, but this time around she is actually coming, when there is a pandemic going on. She doesn’t social distance or believe in masks and we have toyed with the idea of asking her to quarantine herself for 2 weeks prior to her visit, but I know she won’t do it and bringing it up will just piss her off.

Then yesterday SIL called and said since her vacation got cancelled she and her husband will be taking a road trip from IN to ND, SD, MT, and they want to swing through CO to stay with us for a few days. They would arrive the day my mom leaves and stay 2-3 days before heading home.

We love our family and we really miss them, but we cancelled our summer plans to visit them for a reason. It isn’t safe to travel right now. We have a baby with complex medical issues and I’m pregnant again. But the others don’t see the problem. Luckily neither of them are from counties that have had huge case loads, but they could pick it up in the airport / on the road trip and then bring it into our house :(

If it were me, I would only visit them while outdoors, at a distance of a few feet (no contact). They can stay in a hotel, especially as that's probably what your SIL would have done on her vacation anyway. That's entirely their choice; if they could be trusted to respect you and your children and self-isolate for 14 days beforehand, it would be a different story.

[Kris]

My mom is coming to visit for 5 days at the end of July. I’ve lived in my current state for 11 years and she has never visited before, but this time around she is actually coming, when there is a pandemic going on. She doesn’t social distance or believe in masks and we have toyed with the idea of asking her to quarantine herself for 2 weeks prior to her visit, but I know she won’t do it and bringing it up will just piss her off.

Then yesterday SIL called and said since her vacation got cancelled she and her husband will be taking a road trip from IN to ND, SD, MT, and they want to swing through CO to stay with us for a few days. They would arrive the day my mom leaves and stay 2-3 days before heading home.

We love our family and we really miss them, but we cancelled our summer plans to visit them for a reason. It isn’t safe to travel right now. We have a baby with complex medical issues and I’m pregnant again. But the others don’t see the problem. Luckily neither of them are from counties that have had huge case loads, but they could pick it up in the airport / on the road trip and then bring it into our house :(

If it were me, I would only visit them while outdoors, at a distance of a few feet (no contact). They can stay in a hotel, especially as that's probably what your SIL would have done on her vacation anyway. That's entirely their choice; if they could be trusted to respect you and your children and self-isolate for 14 days beforehand, it would be a different story.

Agree with this. You need to protect yourselves. So: that means that you need to CLEARLY DEFINE the parameters by which you will see them if they CHOOSE to come. That is their choice. Your choice will be to have them stay elsewhere, only see them outdoors, socially distanced.

You are not saying they can't come. You're saying what your limits are.

It's always good to remember at these moments: NO is a complete sentence.

[soily]

My mom is coming to visit for 5 days at the end of July. I’ve lived in my current state for 11 years and she has never visited before, but this time around she is actually coming, when there is a pandemic going on. She doesn’t social distance or believe in masks and we have toyed with the idea of asking her to quarantine herself for 2 weeks prior to her visit, but I know she won’t do it and bringing it up will just piss her off.

Then yesterday SIL called and said since her vacation got cancelled she and her husband will be taking a road trip from IN to ND, SD, MT, and they want to swing through CO to stay with us for a few days. They would arrive the day my mom leaves and stay 2-3 days before heading home.

We love our family and we really miss them, but we cancelled our summer plans to visit them for a reason. It isn’t safe to travel right now. We have a baby with complex medical issues and I’m pregnant again. But the others don’t see the problem. Luckily neither of them are from counties that have had huge case loads, but they could pick it up in the airport / on the road trip and then bring it into our house :(

If it were me, I would only visit them while outdoors, at a distance of a few feet (no contact). They can stay in a hotel, especially as that's probably what your SIL would have done on her vacation anyway. That's entirely their choice; if they could be trusted to respect you and your children and self-isolate for 14 days beforehand, it would be a different story.

Agree with this. You need to protect yourselves. So: that means that you need to CLEARLY DEFINE the parameters by which you will see them if they CHOOSE to come. That is their choice. Your choice will be to have them stay elsewhere, only see them outdoors, socially distanced.

You are not saying they can't come. You're saying what your limits are.

It's always good to remember at these moments: NO is a complete sentence.

This. I would feel very emotionally invalidated and consequently in a sour mood if my family violated my boundaries like this.

[SachaFiscal]

My mom is coming to visit for 5 days at the end of July. I’ve lived in my current state for 11 years and she has never visited before, but this time around she is actually coming, when there is a pandemic going on. She doesn’t social distance or believe in masks and we have toyed with the idea of asking her to quarantine herself for 2 weeks prior to her visit, but I know she won’t do it and bringing it up will just piss her off.

Then yesterday SIL called and said since her vacation got cancelled she and her husband will be taking a road trip from IN to ND, SD, MT, and they want to swing through CO to stay with us for a few days. They would arrive the day my mom leaves and stay 2-3 days before heading home.

We love our family and we really miss them, but we cancelled our summer plans to visit them for a reason. It isn’t safe to travel right now. We have a baby with complex medical issues and I’m pregnant again. But the others don’t see the problem. Luckily neither of them are from counties that have had huge case loads, but they could pick it up in the airport / on the road trip and then bring it into our house :(

If I were you I would just say no they can't come stay with you.  They'll get over it. They are family and they will forgive you.  Maybe you can say "Normally I would love for you to visit but in the current circumstances we are socially isolating and not accommodating guests. After this whole thing is over and we're vaccinated we should all plan a family reunion". Or you could say your child's doctor recommends you to isolate for her/his safety.

[SisterX]

My mom is coming to visit for 5 days at the end of July. I’ve lived in my current state for 11 years and she has never visited before, but this time around she is actually coming, when there is a pandemic going on. She doesn’t social distance or believe in masks and we have toyed with the idea of asking her to quarantine herself for 2 weeks prior to her visit, but I know she won’t do it and bringing it up will just piss her off.

Then yesterday SIL called and said since her vacation got cancelled she and her husband will be taking a road trip from IN to ND, SD, MT, and they want to swing through CO to stay with us for a few days. They would arrive the day my mom leaves and stay 2-3 days before heading home.

We love our family and we really miss them, but we cancelled our summer plans to visit them for a reason. It isn’t safe to travel right now. We have a baby with complex medical issues and I’m pregnant again. But the others don’t see the problem. Luckily neither of them are from counties that have had huge case loads, but they could pick it up in the airport / on the road trip and then bring it into our house :(

If I were you I would just say no they can't come stay with you.  They'll get over it. They are family and they will forgive you.  Maybe you can say "Normally I would love for you to visit but in the current circumstances we are socially isolating and not accommodating guests. After this whole thing is over and we're vaccinated we should all plan a family reunion". Or you could say your child's doctor recommends you to isolate for her/his safety.

That last one--if your family is going to get bent out of shape by you wanting to set up guidelines and rules I would shamelessly use your child's ill health, since that is actually a big part of why you're setting up those rules. Remind them that you're trying to keep a child alive and out of the hospital. No one wants your kid to have to go to the hospital, right?

And if you need further bolstering, there are added risks to you as well. There have been abnormalities in the placentas of pregnant women who contracted COVID, though thankfully I haven't heard of any babies who've been harmed by it.

Good luck. It's so difficult navigating all of these issues, and especially hard when the people you love won't take basic commonsense harm reduction strategies seriously.

[economista]

Thank you all. You provided validation to what I was already thinking and good points that I can use when talking to them. You guys are the best!

[MudPuppy]

Not to try and scare you, but a cousin of mine in her 30s and otherwise healthy co reacted COVID and ended up on a vent. She did survive and is home now, but the stress on her body caused her to lose a very wanted 2nd tri pregnancy.

[turketron]

There's not going to be a second wave in the States, or UK, or Australia. That ship has sailed.

This aged well. Although UK and Aus appear to be doing ok, so... partial credit?

[dougules]

There's not going to be a second wave in the States, or UK, or Australia. That ship has sailed.

This aged well. Although UK and Aus appear to be doing ok, so... partial credit?

We could have a whole thread about how well predictions in the older threads aged. 

[kanga1622]

There's not going to be a second wave in the States, or UK, or Australia. That ship has sailed.

This aged well. Although UK and Aus appear to be doing ok, so... partial credit?

I may have an unpopular opinion but I still see the US on the first wave. It feels like it just moved from one location to others but not that it ever truly went down significantly/left. Perhaps that is how we say we won't have a second wave - just have an insanely long first wave until there is a vaccine or we have some other form of immunity. My area is just starting to get cases increasing but the numbers still are low as we are a rural area. I expect our numbers to start jumping once schools/colleges are back in session.

[Bloop Bloop]

There's not going to be a second wave in the States, or UK, or Australia. That ship has sailed.

This aged well. Although UK and Aus appear to be doing ok, so... partial credit?

2/3 ain't bad. Pobody's perfect.

[SisterX]

There's not going to be a second wave in the States, or UK, or Australia. That ship has sailed.

This aged well. Although UK and Aus appear to be doing ok, so... partial credit?

2/3 ain't bad. Pobody's perfect.

It may be 1/3 soon with England acting like this.

Are we counting the entire UK, though? Because in Scotland they're apparently crushing it. And probably wishing, between this and Brexit, that they had voted to leave the UK a few years ago after all.

[bigblock440]

There's not going to be a second wave in the States, or UK, or Australia. That ship has sailed.

This aged well. Although UK and Aus appear to be doing ok, so... partial credit?

We don't have a second wave.

[Reader]

There's not going to be a second wave in the States, or UK, or Australia. That ship has sailed.

This aged well. Although UK and Aus appear to be doing ok, so... partial credit?

2/3 ain't bad. Pobody's perfect.

The second wave seems to be starting in australia in Melbourne.

[deborah]

There's not going to be a second wave in the States, or UK, or Australia. That ship has sailed.

This aged well. Although UK and Aus appear to be doing ok, so... partial credit?

2/3 ain't bad. Pobody's perfect.

The second wave seems to be starting in australia in Melbourne.

No, Melbourne is still getting rid of the first wave.

[Mr. Green]

There's not going to be a second wave in the States, or UK, or Australia. That ship has sailed.

This aged well. Although UK and Aus appear to be doing ok, so... partial credit?

2/3 ain't bad. Pobody's perfect.

I can't help but think of the movie "Mars Attacks!" where Jack Nicholson is talking to the American people after Martians killed all the Congressmen saying, "We still have two out of three branches of the Federal government and that ain't bad!"

[bmjohnson35]

I recently read about two studies that indicated that after getting over covid-19, antibodies appear to drop off considerably within 3-4 months.  It varied depending on the patient's response (severity of symptoms), but this early study indicated that people may be able to get the virus again within 3-4 months.  I don't know if this will impact the duration of a vaccine's ability protect from future infections, but it's concerning.

I have travelled enough and read enough that I know Americans are not always seen in the best light. Watching how both our elected officials and a lot of our general public has and is handling this epidemic doesn't exactly make me proud as an American.

I agree with the general notion that continued economic shutdown is unrealistic, but I also think we could do a much better job of mitigating our risk of spreading the virus.  Even if you don't believe masks are very effective, I don't understand why people can't or won't wear them in public.  Even worse, here in Florida, they often won't even respect the 6 ft social distancing and when you call them out, they get offended.  The arrogant/ignorant North American stereotype personified.  We are over 120,000 deaths in the US, even if this number is inflated by less than accurate reporting, what number will it take to get people to take this more seriously?

[wenchsenior]

I recently read about two studies that indicated that after getting over covid-19, antibodies appear to drop off considerably within 3-4 months.  It varied depending on the patient's response (severity of symptoms), but this early study indicated that people may be able to get the virus again within 3-4 months.  I don't know if this will impact the duration of a vaccine's ability protect from future infections, but it's concerning.

I have travelled enough and read enough that I know Americans are not always seen in the best light. Watching how both our elected officials and a lot of our general public has and is handling this epidemic doesn't exactly make me proud as an American.

I agree with the general notion that continued economic shutdown is unrealistic, but I also think we could do a much better job of mitigating our risk of spreading the virus.  Even if you don't believe masks are very effective, I don't understand why people can't or won't wear them in public.  Even worse, here in Florida, they often won't even respect the 6 ft social distancing and when you call them out, they get offended.  The arrogant/ignorant North American stereotype personified.  We are over 120,000 deaths in the US, even if this number is inflated by less than accurate reporting, what number will it take to get people to take this more seriously?

I actually think the bigger the number gets, the more abstract and unreal and unthreatening it is going to seem to many people, psychologically, until such time as a critical mass of people actually know someone personally affected. ETA, and maybe not even then, if the people they know were asymptomatic young people.

 

[RetiredAt63]

I recently read about two studies that indicated that after getting over covid-19, antibodies appear to drop off considerably within 3-4 months.  It varied depending on the patient's response (severity of symptoms), but this early study indicated that people may be able to get the virus again within 3-4 months.  I don't know if this will impact the duration of a vaccine's ability protect from future infections, but it's concerning.

One study I saw had that result for asymptomatic people.  People who got sick had antibodies for longer.  But really, at this point there are so many variables that the only certain thing to say is that we need more studies, from a bunch of countries, over a longer period of time. 

[Poundwise]

Interesting review of the aftermath of coronavirus... I'd heard of diabetes as a risk factor, but diabetes also seems to be showing up for the first time after covid infection.

https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-what-doctors-know-so-far-about-the-lingering-symptoms-of-coronavirus

[OtherJen]

Interesting review of the aftermath of coronavirus... I'd heard of diabetes as a risk factor, but diabetes also seems to be showing up for the first time after covid infection.

https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-what-doctors-know-so-far-about-the-lingering-symptoms-of-coronavirus

Happened to a friend's mother. She wasn't diabetic before COVID-19.

[geekette]

Interesting review of the aftermath of coronavirus... I'd heard of diabetes as a risk factor, but diabetes also seems to be showing up for the first time after covid infection.

https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-what-doctors-know-so-far-about-the-lingering-symptoms-of-coronavirus

Happened to a friend's mother. She wasn't diabetic before COVID-19.

Curious - type 1 or 2?  Type 1 is autoimmune, and type 2 is genetics, plus age/diet/stress, and steroids can really mess things up (hopefully temporarily).

[TheContinentalOp]

Isn't it still to early to declare some countries "winners" or "losers"?  Sure NZ or Vietnam look good now, but what if we're only in the top of the 2nd inning. By this time next year, maybe .5%-1% of every country's population may have died from it.

[wenchsenior]

Interesting review of the aftermath of coronavirus... I'd heard of diabetes as a risk factor, but diabetes also seems to be showing up for the first time after covid infection.

https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-what-doctors-know-so-far-about-the-lingering-symptoms-of-coronavirus

Happened to a friend's mother. She wasn't diabetic before COVID-19.

Curious - type 1 or 2?  Type 1 is autoimmune, and type 2 is genetics, plus age/diet/stress, and steroids can really mess things up (hopefully temporarily).

I am also VERY curious about this.  I would not be surprised to see a huge surge in autoimmune disease as an after-effect of this pandemic. 

[OtherJen]

Interesting review of the aftermath of coronavirus... I'd heard of diabetes as a risk factor, but diabetes also seems to be showing up for the first time after covid infection.

https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-what-doctors-know-so-far-about-the-lingering-symptoms-of-coronavirus

Happened to a friend's mother. She wasn't diabetic before COVID-19.

Curious - type 1 or 2?  Type 1 is autoimmune, and type 2 is genetics, plus age/diet/stress, and steroids can really mess things up (hopefully temporarily).

I am also VERY curious about this.  I would not be surprised to see a huge surge in autoimmune disease as an after-effect of this pandemic.

I don't know. I don't know if the family knows yet. The inflammation from a major infection can certainly trigger autoimmune disease in someone who is susceptible (disclaimer: I have a doctorate in immunology and received some training from a rheumatoid arthritis expert). For example, I developed active celiac disease after having H1N1 flu.

[Mr. Green]

Interesting review of the aftermath of coronavirus... I'd heard of diabetes as a risk factor, but diabetes also seems to be showing up for the first time after covid infection.

https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-what-doctors-know-so-far-about-the-lingering-symptoms-of-coronavirus

Happened to a friend's mother. She wasn't diabetic before COVID-19.

Curious - type 1 or 2?  Type 1 is autoimmune, and type 2 is genetics, plus age/diet/stress, and steroids can really mess things up (hopefully temporarily).

I am also VERY curious about this.  I would not be surprised to see a huge surge in autoimmune disease as an after-effect of this pandemic.

I don't know. I don't know if the family knows yet. The inflammation from a major infection can certainly trigger autoimmune disease in someone who is susceptible (disclaimer: I have a doctorate in immunology and received some training from a rheumatoid arthritis expert). For example, I developed active celiac disease after having H1N1 flu.

Type 1 is what doctors are running into. COVID is going after beta cells in the body, which are responsible for producing insulin.

[kanga1622]

Interesting review of the aftermath of coronavirus... I'd heard of diabetes as a risk factor, but diabetes also seems to be showing up for the first time after covid infection.

https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-what-doctors-know-so-far-about-the-lingering-symptoms-of-coronavirus

Happened to a friend's mother. She wasn't diabetic before COVID-19.

Curious - type 1 or 2?  Type 1 is autoimmune, and type 2 is genetics, plus age/diet/stress, and steroids can really mess things up (hopefully temporarily).

I am also VERY curious about this.  I would not be surprised to see a huge surge in autoimmune disease as an after-effect of this pandemic.

This scares me tremendously. I already have an autoimmune disease and had some odd side effects from my very mild case of the flu this spring. And once you have one autoimmune disease, my endo said it is common to cross into another. With having family history of additional autoimmune diseases and diabetes, I’d be one of the “lucky” ones to add a really fun consequence if I get COVID.

My coworker has a much scarier autoimmune disorder than I do. She had mild symptoms for years (when she looks back) but after she had sepsis, her symptoms were off the charts and caused significant issues in her ability to maintain the job she had. She’s now changed fields completely and still struggles with painful flares that effect her daily life and limit what she can do.

[wenchsenior]

Interesting review of the aftermath of coronavirus... I'd heard of diabetes as a risk factor, but diabetes also seems to be showing up for the first time after covid infection.

https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-what-doctors-know-so-far-about-the-lingering-symptoms-of-coronavirus

Happened to a friend's mother. She wasn't diabetic before COVID-19.

Curious - type 1 or 2?  Type 1 is autoimmune, and type 2 is genetics, plus age/diet/stress, and steroids can really mess things up (hopefully temporarily).

I am also VERY curious about this.  I would not be surprised to see a huge surge in autoimmune disease as an after-effect of this pandemic.

This scares me tremendously. I already have an autoimmune disease and had some odd side effects from my very mild case of the flu this spring. And once you have one autoimmune disease, my endo said it is common to cross into another. With having family history of additional autoimmune diseases and diabetes, I’d be one of the “lucky” ones to add a really fun consequence if I get COVID.

My coworker has a much scarier autoimmune disorder than I do. She had mild symptoms for years (when she looks back) but after she had sepsis, her symptoms were off the charts and caused significant issues in her ability to maintain the job she had. She’s now changed fields completely and still struggles with painful flares that effect her daily life and limit what she can do.

Yes, I also have two confirmed autoimmune disorders (both mild, thankfully) and also experienced a truly scary period of crazy symptoms several years ago that have never been explained nor diagnosed, though testing (mostly) ruled out a bunch of the really bad stuff, including MS, RA, lupus, polymyositis, guillain-barre, and myasthenia gravis.  I had multiple symptoms that fit all those possibilities.  I suspect that a slight chest cold I had that barely bothered me at the time, just happened to set things off a couple weeks later.

It took almost 6 months for the symptoms to subside completely and I was partially disabled for a couple months. I still have no concrete answers as to what happened to me, and I worry about it happening again.  I want NO part of Covid19.

[E.T.]

Half of the people I live next to / with have pretty much given up on being careful, it's stressful. I don't know how to keep safe anymore but hopefully if I keep wearing masks in public and washing my hands I can at least protect someone else out there if I do end up getting covid and don't realize it.

[SisterX]

Two of my sibs also have multiple autoimmune disorders. (Thankfully mild, as these things go.) The fact that having one autoimmune disorder puts you at risk for others is something that both of their doctors have talked to them about.

A friend of mine actually got Guillain-Barre Syndrome after having either the chicken pox or scarlet fever as a kid. Has one major lifelong affliction (an anaphelactic allergy to a common food) and IBS-like issues due to that. She's terrified of what might happen if she got COVID.

For my part, I just have a history of blood clotting issues, a family history of autoimmune diseases, and type A blood. What could go wrong? /s

All of us appear like healthy young people. We exercise. We eat well. We're at healthy weights. But we're still at risk. I wish more people understood that the "vulnerable" population is far greater than they think it is. So many people still operate under the idea that it's "just grandma" we'd be sacrificing. (Apparently they also don't care about their grandmothers.) So they don't wear masks, and they don't distance, and they get annoyed that someone else could call them out for it because, c'mon, you don't look like I could kill you by coughing on you!

[talltexan]

My mom is coming to visit for 5 days at the end of July. I’ve lived in my current state for 11 years and she has never visited before, but this time around she is actually coming, when there is a pandemic going on. She doesn’t social distance or believe in masks and we have toyed with the idea of asking her to quarantine herself for 2 weeks prior to her visit, but I know she won’t do it and bringing it up will just piss her off.

Then yesterday SIL called and said since her vacation got cancelled she and her husband will be taking a road trip from IN to ND, SD, MT, and they want to swing through CO to stay with us for a few days. They would arrive the day my mom leaves and stay 2-3 days before heading home.

We love our family and we really miss them, but we cancelled our summer plans to visit them for a reason. It isn’t safe to travel right now. We have a baby with complex medical issues and I’m pregnant again. But the others don’t see the problem. Luckily neither of them are from counties that have had huge case loads, but they could pick it up in the airport / on the road trip and then bring it into our house :(

If I were you I would just say no they can't come stay with you.  They'll get over it. They are family and they will forgive you.  Maybe you can say "Normally I would love for you to visit but in the current circumstances we are socially isolating and not accommodating guests. After this whole thing is over and we're vaccinated we should all plan a family reunion". Or you could say your child's doctor recommends you to isolate for her/his safety.

On my wife's side of the family, we are going through this right now. We'd decided to pull the plug on a three-household trip in August. The three households are visiting now. It's pretty clear to us that one of the other two--who live in a low-density area of Missouri--just aren't taking this virus seriously. Where they live, it may be more reasonable to do so, but the vacation we're cancelling would have taken place in Florida, a state that currently seems determined to ignore this virus and focus on opening their economy, and I'm grateful to not have to manage the virus there with these naifs.

[Captain Cactus]

There are people out there (my brother and sister in law, for example...the ones who both work in nursing homes) who simply ignore the realities and proceed with their vacation plans, share close quarters with extended family members (who don't normally share a living space) and think it's safe "because we're family". 

Their kids are getting in the car and going places with their friends and their parents are driving them...closed spaces...inside cars...and then go on vacation with extended family sharing close quarters and thing it's ok "because we're family" (see paragraph above).

It is maddening.  Absolutely maddening.  There is NO shortage of public service announcements regarding COVID-19 on the radio, on television, on the news, so on and so forth... they say they're concerned and taking it seriously but their actions show they are seriously "cavalier"... that is the word that seems to be best describe their actions..."cavalier"... they feel invincible and I personally think it's because they make a lot of money and can normally buy solutions to whatever twinge of inconvenience they normally feel.  Money can't protect them when they run around acting cavalier. 

But like I said before, they'll probably come out of this unscathed after completely flouting the guidelines for the duration... whereas I'll probably get it the one time I go to the grocery store and I'll be f***ed because I have an autoimmune disease!

Cavalier!     

[talltexan]

Indeed that's what is so fascinating about the risk dimension. I tried to personalize it by describing it as dealing with a homeowner's insurance amount of risk. My FiL is mortgage-free, but he still buys homeowner's insurance (I recognize that MMM is in another place on this spectrum even). But I'm trying to get someone to care about a 1/400 chance of dying, and I don't know how else to describe these odds.