Author Topic: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck  (Read 42098 times)

Luap595

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The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« on: November 22, 2019, 02:40:33 PM »
I want to love Tesla. I really wanted to be excited about Cybertruck. And I definitely thought it was cool, even after watching the whacky presentation Musk gave.

While jogging this morning I even day dreamed about how I might rationalize buying one.

Then, as jogged past a parking lot teeming with ridiculously huge trucks, I imagined what it might be like getting hit by a mass of bulletproof steel that does 0-60 in 4.5 seconds. A truck that charges forward with a touch of the accelerator, and has no give whatsoever.

It will be the sledgehammer, and we’ll be like watermelons. They’ll be cleaning joggers and cyclists up with mops squeegees.

I meditated on this horror for a few minutes, my mind eventually wandering to what might happen once a homicidal maniac gets a hold of one.

But after a bit, I started to imagine a different Cybertruck.

What if Tesla had set out to build the most affordable truck ever, that was also electric?

Imagine a smaller, light-weight truck that got 1,000 miles to the charge and cost less than $15,000.

It wouldn’t have massive tires, a 17-inch display, radical design, adjustable suspension, or a fancy bed with all kinds of gizmos. It wouldn’t race a Porsche. It wouldn’t be bulletproof. It might even give a little on impact.

Just your basic truck for getting shit done, no frills, no forking over your entire paycheck to drive it. Reliable, not dependent on fossil fuels, and safer for everyone.

We don’t live in the world that builds this Cybertruck yet, but the community of people that would want one seems to be growing. Maybe someday we’ll get the real truck of the future.

achvfi

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2019, 02:50:33 PM »
Imagine a smaller, light-weight truck that got 1,000 miles to the charge and cost less than $15,000.

It wouldn’t have massive tires, a 17-inch display, radical design, adjustable suspension, or a fancy bed with all kinds of gizmos. It wouldn’t race a Porsche. It wouldn’t be bulletproof. It might even give a little on impact.

Just your basic truck for getting shit done, no frills, no forking over your entire paycheck to drive it. Reliable, not dependent on fossil fuels, and safer for everyone.

We don’t live in the world that builds this Cybertruck yet, but the community of people that would want one seems to be growing. Maybe someday we’ll get the real truck of the future.

In my opinion, that is where we are going towards. This is just a start and I bet we will be there faster than we think.

Its step in right direction.

GodlessCommie

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2019, 02:53:03 PM »
You can't hide the cost of a battery in an economy car or truck yet. Has to be a model with a high margin: luxury, SUV, or truck.

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2019, 03:58:35 PM »
Instead of having an open bed Musk's new creation looks like it has a trunk with a lid that can be used as a loading ramp. If so, both features appeal to me.

Cranky

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2019, 04:01:00 PM »
They used to make little trucks. My parents had one - it was one of the Japanese brands. And pickups used to be cheaper than passenger cars.

That’s not what American consumers want, and there’s not much profit in them for manufacturers, so don’t hold your breath.

FIRE47

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2019, 06:30:09 PM »
The smaller trucks have been tried and they no longer sold - the last real small truck died with the Ford Ranger in 2012.

Americans want a 6000 lb monstrosity with a vestigial 5.5 ft box to park terribly, use 1-2 times a year for the box in any application that couldn't have been done with any other vehicle (see useless 5.5 foot boxes) and splatter pedestrians and cyclists with.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 06:31:53 PM by FIRE47 »

the_fixer

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2019, 06:44:42 PM »
Stayed up to watch it last night and have almost clicked the link to put down my deposit a few times.

If it is a success it will force the big manufacturer's to change and adapt and I do not think that would happen if they came out with a little truck or something with lower specs.

I have always wanted to see someone release a front wheel drive truck like the rabbit truck in diesel or electric but I do not think that is the right move here for Tesla.

Part of our FIRE plan is to spend a few years on the road in our camper exploring, biking and hiking. I have been hoping someone come out with an electric powered truck that we could tow our camper with.


Things that I find interesting

The size, it is not as wide as typical trucks like the f150 ram ETC. I have a single car garage and the standard pickups are a tight fit and every year they get larger

The bed is huge compared to other trucks of the same length they really made good use of not having a big old ICE motor up front

Payload is huge, most trucks run out of payload long before they run out of towing capacity

Despite the exterior size the inside looks huge and comfortable

I dig the cover over the bed it would be great for keeping stuff dry without a topper

Like the air suspension, nice for leveling loads and dropping down for city / highways

Ground clearance is pretty amazing

----

Not a fan of how it looks from the rear

I could care less about being bullet proof guessing that is just a side benefit of the material / design

If they are planning to sell it in the EU it will have to meet pedestrian crash standards that are pretty strick so I suspect some design changes

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Roland of Gilead

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2019, 06:54:18 AM »
At first I was a bit shocked and rather expected Elon to hit the truck with a sledgehammer and make the sides fall off, revealing some sleek Model S looking truck underneath.

After thinking about it more, I just think he is taking us to the future a bit faster than we are used to going.   Some of the features in this truck (the built in inverter for tools/equipment, air suspension for lowering/raising truck for loading and fuel efficiency, built in loading ramp, 3mm steel skin which negates ever needing body panel repairs from door dings) should have already been in modern vehicles.

I think this post from wallstreetbets 69SassyPoptarts sums it up:

"dude’s a fucking genius and I short TSLA all the time. You ever see Star Wars and shit? They’re not driving the kind of vehicles we’re driving today, they’re driving shit like this. Elon’s just skipping 2,000 years of car evolution and bringing us to 4020 let the man live"

Jon Bon

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2019, 07:48:52 AM »
A few observations

1. That's not the truck
 It lacks, mirrors, wipers, and lights. So it will change a fair amount. It probably needs substantial changes to be certified for crash/pedestrian safety.
2. It is a stunt
Elon has always been a bit of a showman. This is a stunt to keep interest in the company and keep that VC money coming in. Elon does not realize that Tesla is no longer a start up and real company. Make what you can sell, not what brings in excited angel investors.
3. Price
Probably about right, average price of full sized trucks is ~50k these days. As for the 'affordable small truck' they exist, but they dont sell, thus why no one makes them anymore. Sure the Ranger came back, but even those 'small' trucks are hideously expensive. No manufacture in their right mind is going to make a 15k truck that takes away sales from a 50k truck.
4. Gizmo's
Elon likes making gizmos. He likes falcon doors, hazmat defense mode, ludicrous speed, and other frivolous things. I get it if you want/need to stand out. But an EV truck is already goign to stand out. Most truck brands have an established 'look' so as long as it does not look exactly like that the truck is going to be plenty unique on its own. It does not need bullet proof glass, an atv, or any other needless complexity to make it stand out.








Kevin_T87

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2019, 07:50:44 AM »
Cybertruck might be designed to have the performance of a sports car combined with the utility of a truck, but it still looks downright ridiculous.

HPstache

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2019, 09:49:54 AM »
I feel like the Cybertruck design and unveiling is yet another piece of evidence that Musk is losing / has lost his mind.  The armor glass demonstration is one of the funniest things I have seen in the car world in quite a while.

Focus_on_the_fire

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2019, 09:55:22 AM »
The smaller trucks have been tried and they no longer sold - the last real small truck died with the Ford Ranger in 2012.

Americans want a 6000 lb monstrosity with a vestigial 5.5 ft box to park terribly, use 1-2 times a year for the box in any application that couldn't have been done with any other vehicle (see useless 5.5 foot boxes) and splatter pedestrians and cyclists with.

My husband has that Ford Ranger. It's a clean, low mile, standard cab, two wheel drive, automatic-nothing pickup. He's like a rockstar in it. Every two weeks or so he runs into someone wanting to buy it.

I suspect the industry doesn't want to make small trucks because the profit isn't there. (We paid $6,000 for the truck new.) But, that doesn't mean the demand for a small truck doesn't exist.

 

the_fixer

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2019, 10:08:23 AM »
Frontier is currently the only one in the US being sold that fits the old school smaller truck and they have been outselling the new ranger and GM smallish trucks.

We compared them all and went with a 2 year old used frontier as our only vehicle and have been happy with it. At the end of the day the newer trucks were larger and 2x the cost and would have more gadgets to break over time.

As little as we drive the frontier it should last us a long time maybe we will be able to get a cool self driving EV to tow with by then.




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HPstache

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2019, 10:09:57 AM »
The smaller trucks have been tried and they no longer sold - the last real small truck died with the Ford Ranger in 2012.

Americans want a 6000 lb monstrosity with a vestigial 5.5 ft box to park terribly, use 1-2 times a year for the box in any application that couldn't have been done with any other vehicle (see useless 5.5 foot boxes) and splatter pedestrians and cyclists with.

My husband has that Ford Ranger. It's a clean, low mile, standard cab, two wheel drive, automatic-nothing pickup. He's like a rockstar in it. Every two weeks or so he runs into someone wanting to buy it.

I suspect the industry doesn't want to make small trucks because the profit isn't there. (We paid $6,000 for the truck new.) But, that doesn't mean the demand for a small truck doesn't exist.

$6,000 brand new??

Roland of Gilead

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2019, 10:24:39 AM »
That might be about right.  We bought a stripped down Toyota Tacoma in 2011 for $14,000 brand new right off the lot and the Ranger is a lot older.  The Tacoma didn't even have power windows (had the old fart handle crank )

HPstache

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2019, 12:28:47 PM »
That might be about right.  We bought a stripped down Toyota Tacoma in 2011 for $14,000 brand new right off the lot and the Ranger is a lot older.  The Tacoma didn't even have power windows (had the old fart handle crank )

That's still quite a bit more than $6k though... lol

FIRE47

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2019, 02:17:39 PM »
The smaller trucks have been tried and they no longer sold - the last real small truck died with the Ford Ranger in 2012.

Americans want a 6000 lb monstrosity with a vestigial 5.5 ft box to park terribly, use 1-2 times a year for the box in any application that couldn't have been done with any other vehicle (see useless 5.5 foot boxes) and splatter pedestrians and cyclists with.

My husband has that Ford Ranger. It's a clean, low mile, standard cab, two wheel drive, automatic-nothing pickup. He's like a rockstar in it. Every two weeks or so he runs into someone wanting to buy it.

I suspect the industry doesn't want to make small trucks because the profit isn't there. (We paid $6,000 for the truck new.) But, that doesn't mean the demand for a small truck doesn't exist.

I had one but my wife tells me you can’t put a car seat on the jump seats. Every so often I see one and regret getting rid of it but it wasn’t a family vehicle and I couldn’t justify an extra car - it held its value incredibly well and never had a single issue with it.

FINate

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2019, 02:20:43 PM »
RE the Cybertruck: Love the range and adaptive air suspension, and the fact that it's an EV, but that's about it. The body design is terrible, not because it's ugly (which it is) but because it's so non-standard that it severely limits the utility. No campers, no camper shells, no lumber racks, no bed extender. Where the hell does one attach a winch on this thing? How does one haul a canoe? This may appeal to urbanites wanting to feel bad ass with a cyberpunk bug out vehicle and a matching quad special built to fit in the back. But this is not your average truck owner, not even close. Squandered opportunity indeed.

TomTX

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2019, 03:02:26 PM »
I feel like the Cybertruck design and unveiling is yet another piece of evidence that Musk is losing / has lost his mind.  The armor glass demonstration is one of the funniest things I have seen in the car world in quite a while.

There's video of Franz doing the same thing before the reveal with the steel ball bouncing off the window. Apparently it does have limits.

Some of y'all may not like it - but it appears there were somewhere around 200k deposits placed in the first 24 hours.

Oh, and apparently there will be a popup tent/camping option.

https://www.curbed.com/2019/11/22/20978006/tesla-cybertruck-electric-truck-camper

CowboyAndIndian

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2019, 04:22:11 PM »
I remember the first Ford Taurus I saw (1987??). All cars in those days were sharp corners, land-boats. That jelly bean look was so weird. Also, remember those rocket fin cars? Tastes have changed drastically since then, those sharp-cornered land-boats and rocket fins have thankfully gone extinct.

I felt that Elon had screwed up when I saw the Model-3's minimalist dashboard with just that iPad-like screen. I hated it.  But after owning it for 11 months and 11k miles, I love it and wonder why others don't do something like this. Non-mustachian buy, I know, but I am FIRE'ed and have the money.

I saw a comment on Matt Inman (The Oatmeal) post on facebook which I have attached at the end.

Also, on https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/e0hv7j/my_favorite_so_far/f8f61f6/ where a funny meme about how the Cybertruck was designed had a lot of positive comments.
Quote
I hated it..then weirded out by it..then it was just ok..now i wont mind one

My feeling is that the looks will grow on people. Tastes might change and this might even be the new normal in a few years.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2019, 04:35:00 PM by CowboyAndIndian »

iris lily

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2019, 04:28:55 PM »
The smaller trucks have been tried and they no longer sold - the last real small truck died with the Ford Ranger in 2012.

Americans want a 6000 lb monstrosity with a vestigial 5.5 ft box to park terribly, use 1-2 times a year for the box in any application that couldn't have been done with any other vehicle (see useless 5.5 foot boxes) and splatter pedestrians and cyclists with.

My husband has that Ford Ranger. It's a clean, low mile, standard cab, two wheel drive, automatic-nothing pickup. He's like a rockstar in it. Every two weeks or so he runs into someone wanting to buy it.

I suspect the industry doesn't want to make small trucks because the profit isn't there. (We paid $6,000 for the truck new.) But, that doesn't mean the demand for a small truck doesn't exist.

We also have an old Ford Ranger and when someone hit DH and “ totaled”  it we still had it repaired because we knew they weren’t making that model anymore. Our banker wanted to buy it, it is low miles.

They have fired up the assembly line and are making something they call a Ford ranger again which seems to be a bit bigger than the original Ford Ranger.

Raeon

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2019, 04:52:01 PM »
I was glad to see the shortened front end compared to other new E-trucks in the works. It's not necessary to have a frunk. I'd like to see the front squashed even more for the sake of a longer bed or improved turning radius. That may increase drag too much though.

I tow a 24' 10k cargo trailer for work every day so my #1 priority is towing performance.  It seems it would be good for what I do and would certainly be cheaper to run. When they've been out for a year I'll be doing a cost benefit analysis to see if it's worth keeping my current truck or switching over. I imagine fuel savings alone would pay for the purchase price. 

Another towing thought.  I use a traditional bumper pull weight distribution hitch so this wouldn't affect me but what about bed-mounted hitches?  Gooseneck hitches might still work but I'm not sure a fifth wheel hitch would work with the cybertruck.  That could be a lost opportunity.  Nearly 95000 fifth wheel RVs sell each year.  That's a big chunk of potential buyers to ignore.  I mostly like the look of the cybertruck right now but how silly would it look with big towing mirrors sticking out 12-15 inches on each side?

Also, I think I might be in the minority but I'm not a big fan of the stripped interior look.   I would like to see the screens look more embedded into the dash. In the model 3 and truck they look like they were mounted as an afterthought. I like the Model S interior much more.

I'm cautiously optimistic but realize there are still many changes that will be made before this thing hits the general public. 

CowboyAndIndian

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2019, 04:58:33 PM »
Looks like 146k people have ordered it till now.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1198344195317985280

Wrenchturner

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2019, 05:09:40 PM »
That's neat, but will it roll coal?

FINate

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2019, 05:16:07 PM »
I feel like the Cybertruck design and unveiling is yet another piece of evidence that Musk is losing / has lost his mind.  The armor glass demonstration is one of the funniest things I have seen in the car world in quite a while.

There's video of Franz doing the same thing before the reveal with the steel ball bouncing off the window. Apparently it does have limits.

Some of y'all may not like it - but it appears there were somewhere around 200k deposits placed in the first 24 hours.

Oh, and apparently there will be a popup tent/camping option.

https://www.curbed.com/2019/11/22/20978006/tesla-cybertruck-electric-truck-camper

200k in pre-orders is not as impressive as it may seem. Whereas the Model 3 required a $1000 deposit, the Cybertruck deposit is a refundable $100. It's such a small amount that I'm not convinced that it will translate to vehicles delivered.

I do think a decent number of people will want the Cybertruck, but if they are gunning for the F150 it needs mass appeal (over 1M F150s sold in 2018). That was the genius of the Roadster, S, X and 3 - high performance electric cars that are sexy rather than weird looking. It's a delicate balance to push style into the realm of edgy and forward looking, while at the same time not being too far out there. IMO the Cybertruck misses the mark on this and has the feel of high-fashion, more like a concept car.

The tent camping option isn't that interesting to me. Just not into expensive things that require dedicated add-ons by the manufacturer. Feels very much like an Apple-esque walled-garden. And a hard camper shell is way more desirable to me. But to each their own. I suppose I will be waiting for the F150 electric or some other competitor.

Raeon

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2019, 05:23:16 PM »
Even if cybertruck nets 0 sales it will have helped push the Big 3 to bring their versions to market a couple years sooner than initially projected. That's a win in my book regardless.

CowboyAndIndian

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2019, 05:27:33 PM »
Even if cybertruck nets 0 sales it will have helped push the Big 3 to bring their versions to market a couple years sooner than initially projected. That's a win in my book regardless.

+1

If not for Tesla, we would not have seen a production electric car till 2025. The big three have actively tried to kill the EV.

HPstache

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2019, 05:48:33 PM »
I feel like the Cybertruck design and unveiling is yet another piece of evidence that Musk is losing / has lost his mind.  The armor glass demonstration is one of the funniest things I have seen in the car world in quite a while.

There's video of Franz doing the same thing before the reveal with the steel ball bouncing off the window. Apparently it does have limits.

Some of y'all may not like it - but it appears there were somewhere around 200k deposits placed in the first 24 hours.

Oh, and apparently there will be a popup tent/camping option.

https://www.curbed.com/2019/11/22/20978006/tesla-cybertruck-electric-truck-camper

Tesla fanboys/ fangirls worship Musks every move and throw their money at him and every new amazeballs thing he thinks he revolutionizing.  Not all that dissimilar Apple... ooh 3 cameras... take my $1000!!!  Not impressed at all by this truck, and the direction of the stock after the unveiling is a much better indicator than the number of $100 refundable deposits.

HPstache

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2019, 05:51:51 PM »
The smaller trucks have been tried and they no longer sold - the last real small truck died with the Ford Ranger in 2012.

Americans want a 6000 lb monstrosity with a vestigial 5.5 ft box to park terribly, use 1-2 times a year for the box in any application that couldn't have been done with any other vehicle (see useless 5.5 foot boxes) and splatter pedestrians and cyclists with.

My husband has that Ford Ranger. It's a clean, low mile, standard cab, two wheel drive, automatic-nothing pickup. He's like a rockstar in it. Every two weeks or so he runs into someone wanting to buy it.

I suspect the industry doesn't want to make small trucks because the profit isn't there. (We paid $6,000 for the truck new.) But, that doesn't mean the demand for a small truck doesn't exist.

I had one but my wife tells me you can’t put a car seat on the jump seats. Every so often I see one and regret getting rid of it but it wasn’t a family vehicle and I couldn’t justify an extra car - it held its value incredibly well and never had a single issue with it.

Speaking of the ranger (big fan, have had multiple) Ford had a production EV Ranger from 1998-2002.

Focus_on_the_fire

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2019, 06:57:47 PM »
The smaller trucks have been tried and they no longer sold - the last real small truck died with the Ford Ranger in 2012.

Americans want a 6000 lb monstrosity with a vestigial 5.5 ft box to park terribly, use 1-2 times a year for the box in any application that couldn't have been done with any other vehicle (see useless 5.5 foot boxes) and splatter pedestrians and cyclists with.

My husband has that Ford Ranger. It's a clean, low mile, standard cab, two wheel drive, automatic-nothing pickup. He's like a rockstar in it. Every two weeks or so he runs into someone wanting to buy it.

I suspect the industry doesn't want to make small trucks because the profit isn't there. (We paid $6,000 for the truck new.) But, that doesn't mean the demand for a small truck doesn't exist.

$6,000 brand new??

Yep. It was a “special” designed to lure you in so they could up sell you. The DH was The Man that day.

HPstache

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2019, 07:13:46 PM »
The smaller trucks have been tried and they no longer sold - the last real small truck died with the Ford Ranger in 2012.

Americans want a 6000 lb monstrosity with a vestigial 5.5 ft box to park terribly, use 1-2 times a year for the box in any application that couldn't have been done with any other vehicle (see useless 5.5 foot boxes) and splatter pedestrians and cyclists with.

My husband has that Ford Ranger. It's a clean, low mile, standard cab, two wheel drive, automatic-nothing pickup. He's like a rockstar in it. Every two weeks or so he runs into someone wanting to buy it.

I suspect the industry doesn't want to make small trucks because the profit isn't there. (We paid $6,000 for the truck new.) But, that doesn't mean the demand for a small truck doesn't exist.

$6,000 brand new??

Yep. It was a “special” designed to lure you in so they could up sell you. The DH was The Man that day.

Crazy.  2011 was not all that long ago...  $6k is insane for a new vehicle.

Focus_on_the_fire

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2019, 10:43:24 PM »
The smaller trucks have been tried and they no longer sold - the last real small truck died with the Ford Ranger in 2012.

Americans want a 6000 lb monstrosity with a vestigial 5.5 ft box to park terribly, use 1-2 times a year for the box in any application that couldn't have been done with any other vehicle (see useless 5.5 foot boxes) and splatter pedestrians and cyclists with.

My husband has that Ford Ranger. It's a clean, low mile, standard cab, two wheel drive, automatic-nothing pickup. He's like a rockstar in it. Every two weeks or so he runs into someone wanting to buy it.

I suspect the industry doesn't want to make small trucks because the profit isn't there. (We paid $6,000 for the truck new.) But, that doesn't mean the demand for a small truck doesn't exist.

$6,000 brand new??

Yep. It was a “special” designed to lure you in so they could up sell you. The DH was The Man that day.

Crazy.  2011 was not all that long ago...  $6k is insane for a new vehicle.

Agreed. It’s bare bones and absolutely perfect for Home Depot runs. Hahaha

Bernard

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2019, 08:06:13 AM »
Love that Cybertruck!
Would want mine with a Cummins Turbodiesel though . . .

FrugalSaver

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2019, 09:28:48 AM »
What about The impact To Natural resources to build the batteries and produce the electricity that electric cars require?


CowboyAndIndian

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2019, 09:50:40 AM »
What about The impact To Natural resources to build the batteries and produce the electricity that electric cars require?

EV batteries can be recycled. When they are no longer suitable for an EV (below 75% charge capacity), it can be used for energy storage for the grid. When they are no longer suitable for any purpose, they can be recycled and the metals separated out for reuse. https://auto.howstuffworks.com/can-electric-car-batteries-be-recycled.htm.

If home solar is used, electricity used in your EV is fully green.

Even if you use the grid for charging your battery, the electricity produced in large plants uses fuels far more efficiently than your ICE car does. I live in New Jersey and in my neck of the woods, electricity is 49% from natural gas, 44% from Nuclear, approx 5% from Solar and a negligible amount from coal (maybe 1% or so) https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/24/climate/how-electricity-generation-changed-in-your-state.html. All of these sources produce far less impact than the fuel burned by ICE.

mozar

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2019, 10:22:37 AM »
Check out truckla from simone giertz. She literally cut off the back of a tesla and welded a pick up truck bed to it.

CowboyAndIndian

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2019, 10:40:56 AM »
Check out truckla from simone giertz. She literally cut off the back of a tesla and welded a pick up truck bed to it.

Really cool. This is what I was expecting at the Cybertruck reveal.

See the "commercial" she made about it https://youtu.be/R35gWBtLCYg

Here is the actual build https://youtu.be/jKv_N0IDS2A


TomTX

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2019, 11:06:28 AM »
What about The impact To Natural resources to build the batteries and produce the electricity that electric cars require?

Far lower than equivalent fossil vehicles.

aspiringnomad

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2019, 04:12:11 PM »
200k in pre-orders is not as impressive as it may seem. Whereas the Model 3 required a $1000 deposit, the Cybertruck deposit is a refundable $100. It's such a small amount that I'm not convinced that it will translate to vehicles delivered.

I do think a decent number of people will want the Cybertruck, but if they are gunning for the F150 it needs mass appeal (over 1M F150s sold in 2018). That was the genius of the Roadster, S, X and 3 - high performance electric cars that are sexy rather than weird looking. It's a delicate balance to push style into the realm of edgy and forward looking, while at the same time not being too far out there. IMO the Cybertruck misses the mark on this and has the feel of high-fashion, more like a concept car.

Elon specifically said that if people don't like it, then they'll make a "normal" truck. As I understand it, the Cybertruck's shape supports the exoskeleton frame which in turn supports the cost-effectivness of the vehicle. I think it'll sell very well and appreciate Tesla pushing the envelope. If any car company is in a position to put this out there and have it succeed, it's Tesla.

aspiringnomad

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2019, 04:14:10 PM »
Check out truckla from simone giertz. She literally cut off the back of a tesla and welded a pick up truck bed to it.

Really cool. This is what I was expecting at the Cybertruck reveal.

See the "commercial" she made about it https://youtu.be/R35gWBtLCYg

Here is the actual build https://youtu.be/jKv_N0IDS2A

If that's what you were expecting, then you weren't paying attention. Which is fine - I suspect most people weren't. But for better or worse, they are now.

FINate

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2019, 05:47:33 PM »
Elon specifically said that if people don't like it, then they'll make a "normal" truck. As I understand it, the Cybertruck's shape supports the exoskeleton frame which in turn supports the cost-effectivness of the vehicle. I think it'll sell very well and appreciate Tesla pushing the envelope. If any car company is in a position to put this out there and have it succeed, it's Tesla.

Clearly, some people love it and some hate it. As far as I can tell the people that love it are not normal truck owners. In my informal and completely unscientific polling, truck owners I know have responded with a hearty laugh when asked if they plan to trade in for a Cybertruck. This is completely unsurprising given that Musk dislikes existing truck designs and finds them boring. However, this segment of the automotive market is fiercely traditional, so IMO the entire design philosophy is wrong. A much safer bet would be to push the limits of sports cars since it's desirable to stand out in this segment. This is basic marketing 101 stuff. In other words, Cybertruck will sell, but will likely induce new demand rather than steal market share from the big three. And Tesla may cannibalize it's own market share, with those who were considering an X or Y deciding instead to hold off for Cybertruck. With Ford planning a BEV F150, and others like Rivian coming out with much more sensible products, Tesla may not have the opportunity to break into the traditional pickup truck market.

I get the whole exoskeleton design idea, not convinced it's a good idea for a truck. What happens when it gets smashed by something much more substantial than a sledgehammer and the exoskeleton is damaged? Does this compromise the structural integrity of the vehicle thereby resulting in a total loss?  I actually don't know, but wonder about the long term feasibility and repairability of the design.

It will be interesting to see what Ford comes up with. If they can control costs and provide decent range and performance while keeping the overall body design this would retain compatibility with the vast third-party add-on market. This could be a winning strategy for them. Even an oversized frunk, considered vestigial by many, would open up promising new possibilities. Imaging a frunk with a modular tool box/organizer, or something like a kitchenette one often finds at the rear of teardrop trailers. And with a traditional bed in the back (vs. the vault) overlanders could still install a camper shell which can accommodate roof racks for a rooftop tent, all while having plenty of storage for gear in the bed. The pickup segment is not just about putting heavy/dirty things in the back and towing heavy loads. These things are important, but trucks are also a platform people customize and build upon...a big part of the "utility" is the flexibility to adapt it to a very wide array of possibilities.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 05:49:08 PM by FINate »

aspiringnomad

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2019, 06:27:59 PM »
Elon specifically said that if people don't like it, then they'll make a "normal" truck. As I understand it, the Cybertruck's shape supports the exoskeleton frame which in turn supports the cost-effectivness of the vehicle. I think it'll sell very well and appreciate Tesla pushing the envelope. If any car company is in a position to put this out there and have it succeed, it's Tesla.

Clearly, some people love it and some hate it. As far as I can tell the people that love it are not normal truck owners. In my informal and completely unscientific polling, truck owners I know have responded with a hearty laugh when asked if they plan to trade in for a Cybertruck. This is completely unsurprising given that Musk dislikes existing truck designs and finds them boring. However, this segment of the automotive market is fiercely traditional, so IMO the entire design philosophy is wrong. A much safer bet would be to push the limits of sports cars since it's desirable to stand out in this segment. This is basic marketing 101 stuff. In other words, Cybertruck will sell, but will likely induce new demand rather than steal market share from the big three. And Tesla may cannibalize it's own market share, with those who were considering an X or Y deciding instead to hold off for Cybertruck. With Ford planning a BEV F150, and others like Rivian coming out with much more sensible products, Tesla may not have the opportunity to break into the traditional pickup truck market.

I get the whole exoskeleton design idea, not convinced it's a good idea for a truck. What happens when it gets smashed by something much more substantial than a sledgehammer and the exoskeleton is damaged? Does this compromise the structural integrity of the vehicle thereby resulting in a total loss?  I actually don't know, but wonder about the long term feasibility and repairability of the design.

It will be interesting to see what Ford comes up with. If they can control costs and provide decent range and performance while keeping the overall body design this would retain compatibility with the vast third-party add-on market. This could be a winning strategy for them. Even an oversized frunk, considered vestigial by many, would open up promising new possibilities. Imaging a frunk with a modular tool box/organizer, or something like a kitchenette one often finds at the rear of teardrop trailers. And with a traditional bed in the back (vs. the vault) overlanders could still install a camper shell which can accommodate roof racks for a rooftop tent, all while having plenty of storage for gear in the bed. The pickup segment is not just about putting heavy/dirty things in the back and towing heavy loads. These things are important, but trucks are also a platform people customize and build upon...a big part of the "utility" is the flexibility to adapt it to a very wide array of possibilities.

Yep, those are all fair criticisms. As far as demand from traditional truck guys, I think that was always going to be a tough nut for Tesla to crack regardless of what it looks like. But for those who don't care about looks, the truck's specs are nearly impossible to beat at that price point. Will be interesting to see what the exoskeleton means for repairability and crash-testing.

FINate

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2019, 06:42:05 PM »
Yep, those are all fair criticisms. As far as demand from traditional truck guys, I think that was always going to be a tough nut for Tesla to crack regardless of what it looks like. But for those who don't care about looks, the truck's specs are nearly impossible to beat at that price point. Will be interesting to see what the exoskeleton means for repairability and crash-testing.

Agree, it was always going to be an uphill battle, which makes it all the more puzzling...why make it that much more challenging? In any case, Ford has had recent success pushing the ball forward on the F150 with both turbocharging and an aluminum body. There was initial resistance from the traditionalists ('merican steel, big block V8 enthusiasts) but these are now doing very well for Ford as people see the practical benefits: increased power, better MPG, greater durability. I also agree that the Cybertruck specs are impressive so similarly, maybe this will win the day in the end.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 06:47:53 PM by FINate »

TomTX

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2019, 05:53:45 AM »
If "looks" are the primary motivator them in a truck selection: Then those "traditional truck guys" can keep buying their pretty painted princess wagons ;)

Electric pickup with 250+ miles of range, seats 6, nearly 2 tons of cargo capacity and nearly 4 tons of towing capacity, above average bed size for a modern full-size pickup, integrated bed ramp and tonneau cover standard, plenty* of extra enclosed cargo lockers... all for $40k. I don't think you can get a conventional fossil powered pickup with comparable stats for that price, even leaving off the integrated 120+240V power taps, compressor, 16" ground clearance, etc.

*Under bed, frunk, under back seat, inside the "wings" are the ones I'm aware of.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2019, 06:00:01 AM »

I get the whole exoskeleton design idea, not convinced it's a good idea for a truck. What happens when it gets smashed by something much more substantial than a sledgehammer and the exoskeleton is damaged? Does this compromise the structural integrity of the vehicle thereby resulting in a total loss?  I actually don't know, but wonder about the long term feasibility and repairability of the design.


Anything that is able to crunch a 3mm thick hardened steel exoskeleton would also total a conventional body on frame truck to the point it is a total insurance write off.

dignam

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2019, 08:02:38 AM »
Gosh, what I wouldn't do for a no-frills small pickup truck.  Even the new Colorados/Canyons/Rangers are way too big. 

FINate

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #46 on: November 25, 2019, 08:04:51 AM »

I get the whole exoskeleton design idea, not convinced it's a good idea for a truck. What happens when it gets smashed by something much more substantial than a sledgehammer and the exoskeleton is damaged? Does this compromise the structural integrity of the vehicle thereby resulting in a total loss?  I actually don't know, but wonder about the long term feasibility and repairability of the design.


Anything that is able to crunch a 3mm thick hardened steel exoskeleton would also total a conventional body on frame truck to the point it is a total insurance write off.

Interested in the technical details of this if you have them. Crunching a body panel isn't usually a total loss as long as the chassis is undamaged. Just replace the panel. If the  exoskeleton is as tough as you say then there are likely safety concerns due to lack of crumple zones.

BTDretire

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #47 on: November 25, 2019, 08:17:34 AM »
The smaller trucks have been tried and they no longer sold - the last real small truck died with the Ford Ranger in 2012.

Americans want a 6000 lb monstrosity with a vestigial 5.5 ft box to park terribly, use 1-2 times a year for the box in any application that couldn't have been done with any other vehicle (see useless 5.5 foot boxes) and splatter pedestrians and cyclists with.

My husband has that Ford Ranger. It's a clean, low mile, standard cab, two wheel drive, automatic-nothing pickup. He's like a rockstar in it. Every two weeks or so he runs into someone wanting to buy it.

I suspect the industry doesn't want to make small trucks because the profit isn't there. (We paid $6,000 for the truck new.) But, that doesn't mean the demand for a small truck doesn't exist.

$6,000 brand new??

Yep. It was a “special” designed to lure you in so they could up sell you. The DH was The Man that day.

Crazy.  2011 was not all that long ago...  $6k is insane for a new vehicle.

Ya, seems to low, I bought a 1997 Toyota T-100 in 2000, I paid $11,000 and thought we got a deal. We did, I'm still driving it daily. Last year the insurance company totaled it after very minor hurricane damage, a 6 inch crease behind the extended cab window and two small dimples in the hood. I got $2,975 and bought it back for $734. I didn't do any repair and everything is fine.

FINate

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #48 on: November 25, 2019, 08:40:19 AM »
If "looks" are the primary motivator them in a truck selection: Then those "traditional truck guys" can keep buying their pretty painted princess wagons ;)

*cringe* no need for misogyny. Regardless of gender, people aren't eager to pay $50k and up for a vehicle they regard as ugly.

Focus_on_the_fire

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Re: The Squandered Opportunity of the Cybertruck
« Reply #49 on: November 25, 2019, 08:42:14 AM »
Whoops! My bad, mustachians. I misspoke. We bought the Ranger new 2004 for $6850 with tax and licensing. I'm at the age when 2004 doesn't feel that long ago! HAHAHA