The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'

[kendallf]

hybrid, a beer would be fine but it would have to be a Dos Equis my friend.

Now it all makes sense....

Perhaps moreso than you realize hybrid.  Here is a thread I started on a travel forum a few years ago.  It describes one of my actual travels when I was just a young pup.  https://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/forums/gap-year-round-the-world-travel/topics/unplanned-travel?page=1#post_19784184
It may give you an indication of why I don't follow the pack.

BlueHouse, re your "Sometimes we have to change with the times too."  My answer to that is the same as to rollerblading.  Go to minute 7.35 on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U18VkI0uDxE

Are you seriously calling yourself the Dos Equis guy?  LOL.

[OldPro]

No kendallf, just suggesting we share some views of life.  Been places, seen things, done things that aren't necessarily typical.

The Dos Equis guy for example 'owned 3 sports cars, crashed 5'.  I have owned 4 sports cars and crashed 1.  He gained his appreciation of Dos Equis beer while a guest in a Guadalajara jail.  I spent my first night on the island of Rhodes in jail and gained an appreciation of Greece as the birthplace of freedom and democracy.  We have both been auctioned off at a 'bachelor auction' for charity. 

And yes, like him, I don't always drink beer.  Stay thirsty my friend.

[lise]

OldPro is among my newest favorite (of many) member of this forum. What a fun read, what great insights. Would love to buy this man a beer.

Really?  I enjoyed his original post, but I've found many of his comments since then to be offensive.  Telling someone the equivalent of "nobody likes you" is just rude. 

Lyssa, if you are German, you just have to learn that when you travel as a tourist, putting your towel on a sunbed by the pool at 5am so you can reserve the sunbed is what makes everyone dislike Germans.  That single cultural norm of Germans has probably done more to make them disliked around the world than any other single thing.  LOL

The world is a much smaller place than when OldPro was coming up and not only do we have to be culturally sensitive when visiting other countries, but we also need to show the same respect to visitors in our countries.  I have lived and worked in cities with very high tourism rates and I am very pleased to help visitors and no, I don't expect them to know all the local customs.  Sometimes we have to change with the times too.

Lighten up! You'll enjoy life a little more if you're not so sensitive. OldPro may not be your cup of tea but I find him refreshing and full of good insights. Maybe if you lived such an exciting life with all those experiences you'd realize that not everyone is is as sensitive or political correct as we tend to be in America but yet we are the most segregated country on the planet with quite a lot of structural barriers in place for many minorities.

I think Old Pro has some useful things to say but I do find his writing style abrasive.  It is rude to say "nobody likes you".  Are you ok with someone telling you to "lighten up" if someone said "nobody likes you" in reply to a post you made?  I get the joke he was trying to make, it was just poorly delivered in my opinion.

[arebelspy]

MOD VOICE ON

OldPro's personality does not need to be discussed.  He has received a PM from mods regarding some of the tones he used, but he is more than welcome to post at this time.

If you see further behavior that bothers you, please do use the "report to moderator" button in the lower right of the offending post.

Until that happens, we can drop it.

And discussing whether or not you like a particular poster does not seem kind or in the spirit of the forum.  :)

Thanks!

[Albert]

Who knows that will happen, but there are quite a few young Greeks living in Switzerland now. Same for Spanish and Portuguese and of course Italians albeit for them that has always been the case. They aren't here because they are in love with the mountains...

I wish though I could live somewhere close to the sea and the mountains at the same time and no real winter. Catalonia would be more my cup of tea than islands of Greece, though.

[lise]

Who knows that will happen, but there are quite a few young Greeks living in Switzerland now. Same for Spanish and Portuguese and of course Italians albeit for them that has always been the case. They aren't here because they are in love with the mountains...

I wish though I could live somewhere close to the sea and the mountains at the same time and no real winter. Catalonia would be more my cup of tea than islands of Greece, though.

New Zealand?

[Albert]

Who knows that will happen, but there are quite a few young Greeks living in Switzerland now. Same for Spanish and Portuguese and of course Italians albeit for them that has always been the case. They aren't here because they are in love with the mountains...

I wish though I could live somewhere close to the sea and the mountains at the same time and no real winter. Catalonia would be more my cup of tea than islands of Greece, though.

New Zealand?

Might fit the bill, but too far from family. My parents and sister couldn't afford to visit me there...

[OldPro]

Huh, I didn't see anything worth a Moderator having to comment on. 

Lise, I didn't say to Lyssa that no one likes HER.  You wrote (as did BlueHouse), " It is rude to say "nobody likes you"."  Where did you read that?  Only BlueHouse wrote that, not me.  I wrote, "is what makes everyone dislike Germans."  That is a simple statement of fact in regards to German tourists and sunbeds.  It is in no way a comment about Lyssa personally.

I pointed out that a cultural norm of Germans (towels on sunbeds before breakfast) is what makes a lot of people dislike them as tourists.  Imposing their cultural norm is hurting them as a whole.  I wasn't joking although the link to the video was meant to make light of it rather than it be a big deal.  It is an actual fact that this goes on everywhere that German package tourists go.  It is also an actual fact that for that reason, they are disliked by many other tourists of various other nationalities.  I was actually giving Lyssa some advice on how not to behave in another country as a tourist.  IF she is a German.

It is simply a classic example of NOT being culturally sensitive as a visitor to other countries.  It is relevant I believe in a discussion about how cultures differ and being sensitive to other cultures rather than imposing our own culture on others.

MOD NOTE: With multiple complaints, posts taking it off topic, etc., it was worth a moderator response.  And the moderator told you, and everyone else, to move on.  Multiple times. To everyone else: Please do not respond to this. /END NOTE

Moving on.  Albert, have you been to Corsica?  The GR20 trail down the spine of the island will give you great mountain hiking and the sea of course is all around.  My favourite town on the island is Bonifaccio.  https://www.google.ca/search?q=bonifacio&biw=1280&bih=687&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=FI9JVcC5DMy1ogSPkIHoCA&ved=0CDkQsAQ

Easy access to Switzerland on Easyjet all season.  The west coast has some of the finest sailing I've ever seen.  It is a surprising mountainous island yet on the coast the climate remains mild in winter. 

Do these pictures look like a Mediterranean island or Switzerland?
https://www.google.ca/search?q=corsica+skiing&biw=1280&bih=687&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=OJFJVcOvBIaSyQS1xoCwCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CBwQsAQ

And in the summer, this:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=corsica+beaches&biw=1280&bih=687&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=gJFJVeqpO4T2yQTxv4GgCg&sqi=2&ved=0CBwQsAQ

Best of both worlds.

[fa]

Corsica is interesting.  I never knew about skiing and beautiful beaches on one island.

Just from the little bit I know about Corsica, there is the occasional bombing and islanders are very hostile to non-islanders.  This seems related to the desire of the island the be independent from France.  Does anyone have personal experience with Corsica and can comment in regards to these issues?

[Thegoblinchief]

Interesting thread. Haven't been able to afford international travel yet, so I have no idea how I'd react. For now I'm just enjoying others' stories :)

[infogoon]

Bookmarking -- I'm really enjoying reading this thread. Thanks, OP.

[OldPro]

Fa, while Corsicans can be quite strong in their views on independence, it does not affect the daily life of most people.  Don't overestimate it.  They are for example against foreign ownership of property but that has recently changed to suit them.  Coincidently, this article is dated today.  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/corsican-terror-group-lays-down-arms-in-battle-for-independence-from-france-9569569.html

I have not lived on Corsica but have spent time there.  I would not hesitate to live there but I would pay attention to how I went about it.  Renting for a couple of years at first is what I always suggest for anywhere and integrating into the local culture rather than keeping to 'expat enclaves' etc. is always a good idea.  When I lived on Rhodes, many locals I knew and who knew me, referred to me as 'Rhodian' in all but birth.  I took it as a compliment of acceptance as it was intended. 

It is people who move to a country and then maintain a separateness that may find themselves being targetted in some way.  That happens in any country.  British enclaves in Spain or France for example are thoroughly disliked by locals and often that dislike takes a more physical form than just words.  Spraying 'Brits go home' on walls or 'keying' the paint on Brit registered cars does happen.  But all those affected do is complain about it and how terrible the local people are while remaining totally oblivious to WHY it is happening.

I drove (as I have mentioned before here I think) a bright 'Flamenco' red MGB convertible on Rhodes for 4 years.  You must re-register (at signifigant cost) it within 6 months by law.  I drove it on the British registration for the entire 4 years and was never stopped once.  How can that be?  you cannot drive a bright red little sports car of which there are only 2 on the entire little island without the police being aware of it.  Many other 'foreigners' had their cars seized, impounded and sold of at auction for not re-registering the vehicle. 

Obviously, how one 'foreigner' is treated is not how every 'foreigner' is treated.  You reap what you sow.

 

[MayDay]

Here is an un-amusing anecdote about why I have no desire to retire in a tropical country. 

My sister works for a non-profit in Guatemala.  She ate an amoeba (she's been living in undeveloped countries for three years and this is the latest in a long string of parasites and stomach infections, despite being as careful as she can possibly be).  She got medication, and it made her extremely ill.  She has been in and out if hospital, getting wildly varying opinions, including completely invalid instructions to stop taking the amoeba medication since they can no longer detect amoebas in her (you have to finish the course of the medication and also do a course of a second medication, apparently).  She is now waiting for a med-evac flight from her international health insurance, and if that is not approved, her Mexican boyfriend (relevant because he is a native Spanish speaker and able to advocate for her in the native language) will get his hands in as many pain meds as they will prescribe, and fly her to Mexico DF on a commercial flight, and take her straight to the Mayo Clinic in DF.

The hospital in Guatemala (in a city, but not Guatemala City) does not use gloves, has no sharps containers, and did not evacuate the building when there was an earthquake.  My sister and her boyfriend evacuated themselves, everyone else stayed inside.   

So, yes, she can live a life of luxury on 1000$ a month.  But that comes wit some serious downsides. 

[NICE!]

Here is an un-amusing anecdote about why I have no desire to retire in a tropical country. 

My sister works for a non-profit in Guatemala.  She ate an amoeba (she's been living in undeveloped countries for three years and this is the latest in a long string of parasites and stomach infections, despite being as careful as she can possibly be).  She got medication, and it made her extremely ill.  She has been in and out if hospital, getting wildly varying opinions, including completely invalid instructions to stop taking the amoeba medication since they can no longer detect amoebas in her (you have to finish the course of the medication and also do a course of a second medication, apparently).  She is now waiting for a med-evac flight from her international health insurance, and if that is not approved, her Mexican boyfriend (relevant because he is a native Spanish speaker and able to advocate for her in the native language) will get his hands in as many pain meds as they will prescribe, and fly her to Mexico DF on a commercial flight, and take her straight to the Mayo Clinic in DF.

The hospital in Guatemala (in a city, but not Guatemala City) does not use gloves, has no sharps containers, and did not evacuate the building when there was an earthquake.  My sister and her boyfriend evacuated themselves, everyone else stayed inside.   

So, yes, she can live a life of luxury on 1000$ a month.  But that comes wit some serious downsides.

This seems like a pretty extreme case. If you're in a major city, even in a seriously underdeveloped country, you can find the hospital that diplomats use. It is generally pretty decent but you may have to leave for more serious issues.

[OldPro]

I'd say your example is realistic if extreme MayDay.  The point is that many things including health care may not be as expected.  There are ways around them usually but they can be time or money consuming.

One example though is NOT enough on which to base a decision to not retire to a tropical country.  It's a one factor, one of many factors.  As you have written it, you are suggesting you would ignore all postive factors and base your decision (assuming you were seriously interested in considering such a move) on ONE negative factor.  I'm sure that's not how you actually make decisions.

[MMMaybe]

Yep, May Day, your sister is probably using a local hospital. Those are usually terribly under-resourced and care is not great. This is not the case for all hospitals though in tropical paradises, as has been mentioned. There is always a lot of wealth co-existing with poverty and those with $$$ don't go to local hospitals.

The private hospitals in many parts of Asia are very good and get a lot of patients coming from more expensive parts of the world for treatment. Some have lobbies that look like 5* hotels...

I would suggest though, that anyone retiring to a developing country is sensible and gets medical insurance so that they can use the private hospitals. That should be a non-negotiable expense.

[russianswinga]

OldPro, thank you for this thread. It hits really close to home, because I want to retire near where you spent your 7 years (Montenegro, just a few hours from Greece) and will likely face similar challenges. See my thread here:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/throw-down-the-gauntlet/retiring-in-montenegro/
I have visited may countries, but have only called two home. Now I want to embark on a journey in a 3rd, without speaking the language. Luckily, I have about 20 years to prepare :)
Initially I thought about buying / investing there long before the move, but having read your thread, I may rent for a year or two first.

[OldPro]

It's always better to rent russianwinga.  It's all about 'sticking'.  Some will and some will not but there is no way to really know until you try.