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General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: Askel on January 09, 2019, 09:48:39 AM

Title: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 09, 2019, 09:48:39 AM
I struggle with this. On one hand, skiing is something I enjoy greatly and spending more quality time with my skis is one of the driving forces behind my interest in FIRE. On that other hand, it's a completely ridiculous past time that can eat up every dollar I have, has almost no utility value beyond some outdoor exercise, and is the root cause of some pretty bad transgressions against good 'ol Ma Nature.

Even Mr. MM seems to struggle with it a bit, finding a way to try and integrate his annual "Safety Pirates" trip into his ideals: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/03/04/an-enjoyable-experiment-wasting-1000/

(Take away: Fuck it, let's burn a grand!)

So, bear with me as I engage in a multipart post on the subject. Part rant, part DIY, part accountability, and all snow. 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 09, 2019, 10:24:21 AM
Part 1: The rant. 

Pretty much every culture I've seen that developed in snowy areas devised some method to more efficiently travel over snow.  Some figured out that when you mix gravity with this slippery white stuff, you can have a hell of a lot of fun (see the Altai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aAMrTIzsnU). 

One of these was skiing.  Early European settlers brought it to my neck of the woods. Since they didn't have an English word for it then, they just formed "Snowshoe Clubs". The US Ski Hall of Fame is not far from my home. 

Then, the culture that brought you the F-350 dually for commuting purposes got ahold of skiing.

At this point, skiing has gone completely off the deep end.  It could quite possibly be the least efficient means of transport over snow now.  Take a mountain, rip all the trees of one side, put a bunch of chairlifts in, make snow, then groom it with giant snowcats.  Can't groom it? Drop bombs on it or SHELL IT WITH A HOWITZER!! FUCK YEAH! AMERICA!  Don't forget to then surround this mountain with way overpriced hotels, restaurants, and vacation real estate. 

But wait! There's more: your special little place in this growing disaster!  Buy yourself some skis and gear, at least every 3 years. God forbid you be seen rocking rear entry boots, straight skis, or an unfashionable ski coat. Then get on a plane and fly someplace snowy.  Check into your hotel, eat an expensive meal, then pay nearly a hundred bucks to ride those chairlifts.  Do this a lot? Spend a thousand bucks on a season pass and get yourself a timeshare!  Be sure to go heli-skiing because sure, why the fuck not at this point?  Then just keep hitting that endorphin/adrenaline button over and over again by chasing more and more agressive lines. Continue until you suffer some debilitating injury.   

But I'm a sensitive new age viking! Me and mother nature are best of pals! I'm a cross country skier! 

It's too late, we've ruined that already too.  You can't just put on a pair of skis and shuffle off into the woods! Good god man! You need to MAXIMIZE YOUR PERFORMANCE. First, adopt a skiing technique that requires two lane roads be bulldozed through the forest. Then groom them constantly with the same giant snowcats from the downhill area (god forbid we break trail or set tracks ourselves, we're not animals). Get yourself a quiver full of skis that all look exactly the same with different flex and base grinds.  Sign up for races. Realize you suck. In a vain attempt not to suck, get on a plane and fly someplace snowy for early season training. Engage in all the shenanigans the downhill folks do without the adrenaline. 

Someplace, in all this craziness is a quiet moment in some beautiful winter surroundings, a good hearty physical challenge, maybe a few thrills, and some good times with friends. Maybe we can do this in at least a partially sustainable way. If not for the earth's health, at least for that of our budget. 

Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Arbitrage on January 09, 2019, 10:25:31 AM
I love skiing, grew up skiing frequently, even worked for a season at a major ski resort.  I haven't skied for about 9 years now, basically since having kids.  I would like to get them into skiing at some point, but every time there's an opportunity, I end up balking or just doing nothing while the opportunity passes. 

The prospect of a family skiing trip is so daunting now, with the need to purchase ski clothing that the kids will never use outside of skiing and outgrow quickly (we live in SoCal and don't need that clothing otherwise), travel, lodging, insanely priced lift tickets, lessons, rentals, etc.  My brother just floated the idea of a meetup family ski vacation in a year.  While it sounds great, I can't help but consider that it's probably going to be north of $3k to make it happen for a few days of skiing.  However, I have so many positive skiing memories from my youth that I don't want to deprive my kids of the opportunity. 

I have been considering FIRE in a location with easy access to skiing.  It's much more palatable with a season pass, a short drive during off-peak times, and one's own gear. 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 09, 2019, 10:36:03 AM
I grew up on skis as well, Arbitrage. Some of my best skiing memories are days out with family on cross country trips.  I wouldn't trade them for any big mountain trip I've ever done. Hopefully my coming posts will give you some ideas on how to get out there with your family. 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: TheBeeKeeper on January 09, 2019, 10:41:14 AM
XC skiing!
Much cheaper than downhill, better workout, kids can do it too.
Bonus- most of the clothing can be used for winter biking
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: honeybbq on January 09, 2019, 10:54:38 AM
No help here, I have an Epic Season pass. We'll do Whistler, my spouse will spend a week in CO, and with the acquisition of Steven's Pass, we'll get some weekend skiing in locally as well.

Skiing is fun. It's exercise. It's a good family trip and bonding experience. It makes sitting in an office and earning money worth it.

Having a pass helps keep the costs fixed. When we go for a week of skiing, we usually go with another family and rent a ski in-out condo to help offset the lodging charges. I bring along my instant pot and cook every meal and do meal planning. For 6+ people, usually a week of skiing costs about $50 for food and snacks including booze. This is a huge savings compared to buying lunch on the mountain every day or going into the village for dinner. In the evenings we talk and play games and drink wine. It's an excellent vacation IMO and worth every dime.

Some of the mountains have free passes for kids- Epic pass is one of them. And I think in Colorado, they have a grade (e.g. 4th?) that skiis free every year at their resorts. I usually try to buy their gear second hand or get adjustable bibs that can work for many seasons. I've bought (and sold) skis through the ski swap and also on ebay so each new ski/boot combo really costs about 50% once I factor in my own resale.

Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 09, 2019, 11:01:35 AM
Part II: How to be a Mustachian Skier

(This is by no means comprehensive, just some things I do to escape the craziness and cost usually associated with skiing.)

1. Get some snow.  You're going to need a lot of this, the more the better.  My personal recommendation is to move someplace that has it or at least closer to those places.  Try to avoid making it. First, making snow is an incredibly water and energy intensive process with high environmental and financial costs.  Second, everybody is going to flock there. While a rowdy Friday night at the local hill with lots of people can be a blast, I enjoy skiing best by the opportunity it affords for real solitude. 

2. Learn to ski uphill.  Laugh at the poor suckers paying to be herded up the lifts, forever at the mercy of only being able to go wherever gravity will take them once they got off at the top. We live in a golden age of options for gear that can be pointed uphill now. XC, AT, heck- even snowboards that split in two to make a pair of skis to go uphill are a thing. 

3. Learn to break trail. I won't kid you, this can be really hard, but you're going to need to learn how to do this to escape the tyranny of the groomed.  Laying in a good skintrack is an art. To those whose tracks I follow, I owe you a beer.

4. Learn to ski downhill- in any gear.  This has been incredibly liberating for me. Learning to ski downhill in a lightweight cross country set up opens a world of options. Come across a sweet glade in your 10 mile trip? The world's your oyster!  Plus you can freak out the normals at the resort as you glide past on XC skis while they struggle with hefty plastic boots and stiff metal edged skis.  I also have a personal theory that lightweight gear greatly reduces the risk of injury as it limits your ability to achieve the extreme speeds and forces that usually contribute to such.     

As you can see, the area between traditional "downhill" and "cross country" realms is pretty gray for me.  Hence I just call it all "skiing".

Bonus step: Learn to camp in the snow.  Motorhomes, vans, and other forms of vehicle based camping are a staple of the ski bum lifestyle.  I've splurged on a bit of luxury though. A canvas tent is a wonderful evening respite and allows for multiple day trips far away from roads.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8366/8586251160_c555618eb0_z.jpg)

Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: fell-like-rain on January 09, 2019, 11:21:51 AM
Agree with everything said about how skiing is fundamentally a cheap sport, which has been artificially made into an expensive nightmare. When I lived in a more rural area, I'd literally head out my front door, cross the road, put on my skis, and go. No driving, no skilifts, no BS. If I wanted to go downhill, I'd find a hill that had been cleared for farming and do some telemark turns down it (which IMO feels vastly more graceful than zipping around on knife-edge fixed heel skis). My lodge was my house, and the apres-ski dinner was typically mac and cheese.

Also, there was no such thing as being snowed in. If the roads aren't plowed, that just means you have a beautiful wide-open trail to ski.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: gaja on January 09, 2019, 11:24:08 AM
I have never paid for skiing in my life, except for getting some very cheap, and often second hand, skis for the kids. My own have always been inherited from parents, neighbours, etc. We usually keep to flattish terrain (e.g. the garden), but in the degree I have done any downhill skiing, it has been after struggling to walk up the hill first (fishbones or sideways, depending on the angle of the hill). Have also done a little bit of ski jumping, but only after first building the ski jump.

Take care when following someone elses tracks in the woods. Some of the most fun we had as kids were making trick tracks; tracks that suddenly ended (often at cliff edges), tracks seemingly going through trees, etc.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: AM43 on January 09, 2019, 11:24:14 AM
Not an expert skier here, but I do ski every winter season with my family of 4.
On average we do 4 ski trips per season.
Yes, it can get expensive if you let it.
We do not need to fly to ski, so that helps to keep costs down.
I bought all my skiing gear off Craigslist.
Plenty to choose from, from expert to beginner gear and everything in between.
I do not own any specific clothing that's designed for skiing.
I wear what's comfortable and keeps me warm.
I bring everything with us to slopes, even water.
We do not purchase anything at the mountain.
Its mostly mediocre to plain nasty food and grossly overpriced, but hey I get it, they are in business to make money.
I try to score lift tickets from Craigslist whenever possible as well.
People get comps and sell it all the time, so keep an eye on that.
Costco sells discount lift tickets as well.
Look for deals, coupons or promos on lift tickets.
That's where skiing gets expensive. Lift tickets.
Family of 4 can easily spend $300 and more depending on resort just on that.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: dude on January 09, 2019, 11:24:53 AM
Amen. Uphilling is freedom. I'm a splitboarder. Accessing untouched pow runs is one of life's purest joys. Can't put a price on it.

On the downside, backcountry travel is getting VERY popular, and it's rare these days to have the mountains to yourself. Hell, in the Wasatch, terrain previously accessed only by those willing to work for it is regularly snaked by heli operators who drop their load of clients on the same hill you were patiently ascending for the untouched goods. Makes me wish I had an RPG.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 09, 2019, 11:27:15 AM
Part III: In which I atone for my sins.

I'll update this as the season progresses. As you can see, I do quite a few things that don't necessarily fit squarely in my ideals. 

Costs
Tickets and Passes
$205- Season pass, downhill area. I almost do this out of charity for an awesome little hill about an hour from my house.  One chairlift, one rope tow, and a lodge that keeps the fireplaces cranking all day and doesn't care if you bring in outside food and beers.  Bonus: it's situated on the edge of 60000 acre wilderness area. 
$220- Trail pass, cross country areas.  I primarily do this as it covers my summer mountain bike access as well, but dang it- sometimes I just want to go peg my heart rate with some skate skiing on the groomers. 

Gear
This is going to be rough this year. My heavyweight skis are due for demotion to rock ski status and a new set acquired. My 10 year old middleweight boots are falling apart. My brand new heavyweight boots are falling apart (possible warranty coverage). Oh, and I bent my lightweight boots in a crash last weekend. 
$129- new middleweight boots, seem to be covering the lightweight end of the spectrum for now as well. We'll see if I can unbend the other boots. 
 
Transportation
I probably rack up at least an average of 100 miles of extra driving a week during ski season, solely for ski related purposes. 

Food and other party supplies
I've yet to hit any of my favorite apres ski gut bomb burger joints this season. I'm probably in for about $40 in beers and rye whiskey.  Backside of my favorite downhill area has a warming hut with a stove and stocked with wood. Head down there after last chair, get a fire going, have a few beers, dry out, then ski out under the stars. 

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4749/39055165885_3f7759f753_z.jpg)
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 09, 2019, 11:48:48 AM
Thanks for your tips, resort skiers. 

Although I tend to talk smack about you, I do realize I'm blessed with incredible access to many other options and friends crazy enough to follow me.   Not everybody is so lucky. 

Hopefully others find some value in your advice. 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: GuitarStv on January 09, 2019, 12:03:50 PM
My mom got me some ski boots and skis used for 20 - 30 dollars and I spent a good portion of my childhood cross country skiing where I lived in Northern Ontario.  I'd just ski along the many snowmobile trails in the woods near our house.  It always blew me away the distance you could travel on skis.  We had snow for five or six months of the year up north though, and sadly just don't get enough where I currently live to make it worth while buying skis.

I did downhill skiing once or twice a year as a kid and enjoyed it, but even back then it was a pretty expensive thing to do.  Doesn't seem like prices have gone down any since.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Prairie Moustache on January 09, 2019, 12:14:02 PM
I was lucky that my parents bought me a pair of decent skiis when I was younger and managed not to grow out of the boots. I'm constantly looking for ways to minimize lift ticket costs. This year I'm planning on heading here for my birthday: https://www.skimarmot.com/plan-your-visit/deals-promotions/ (https://www.skimarmot.com/plan-your-visit/deals-promotions/)
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Mtngrl on January 09, 2019, 12:23:02 PM
Love to downhill ski. It's one of the reasons we moved to Colorado. We have a big ski area 45 minutes from our home. Ways we save money: Buy multi-packs of ski tickets pre-season. Yes, it's still expensive, but cheaper than walk-up prices. We park in the free parking garage. Bring our lunch to ski, always have dinner ready in the crock pot for when we get home. (I noticed yesterday that the price of a burger at the base area restaurant is $16! -- yet we are almost always by ourselves in the sack lunch yurt.)  I'd rather have a drink at home, sitting in our hot tub on the back deck, than go out apres-ski anyway. My husband tunes our skis -- he's had the equipment for years. We buy gear maybe every 10 years or more. Lots of used clothing is available in thrift stores here. Tourists buy the stuff for a trip and donate it before they go home.  He got a 'new' pair of skis last year at the local ski swap for $35 -- wanted some wider powder skis and wasn't about to pay top dollar for them. We bought new helmets two years ago after I fell and cracked mine -- end of season, online sale. Got goggles last year -- also end of season clearance. I am going to need boots in a year or two, but am determined to hang onto these as long as possible. So yeah, we spend money on skiing, but much less than a lot of folks, and we budget for it.

For cross country, we have nice Salomen skis and boots that were given to us by neighbors who were moving south. We have two areas with free groomed trails (one is on the golf course in our neighborhood). We also have an extensive network of trails in our neighborhood where we go snowshoeing -- we bought our snowshoes at a discount store 20 years ago.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 09, 2019, 12:40:09 PM
On the downside, backcountry travel is getting VERY popular, and it's rare these days to have the mountains to yourself. Hell, in the Wasatch, terrain previously accessed only by those willing to work for it is regularly snaked by heli operators who drop their load of clients on the same hill you were patiently ascending for the untouched goods. Makes me wish I had an RPG.

Thankfully, the midwest still puts up a good fight against those looking for BC options.  Finding the right combination elevation, angle, and trees open enough to ski through, but dense enough to keep the snowmobiles out takes some searching and often enough, some select hand trimming. 

It usually requires covering some serious ground on the approach as well, so it takes some major dedication to hump it in on a full on AT setup. 

And if you see a helicopter around, somebody probably reported you as lost. :D
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: TrMama on January 09, 2019, 01:42:13 PM
Hello, my name is Trmama and I'm also addicted to skiing.

I hear you on the foolishness. Through bike commuting, I'm down to a single tank of gas/month . . . except the months I drive to the ski resort. It's a 500km round trip. Once there, thanks to global warming the conditions are marginal, at best.

However, it's one of the few activities both I and my kids enjoy. Or at least my oldest enjoyed it until she broke her leg skiing last spring. Cue, purchase of brand new ski boots for her to assuage my guilt. I think her too soft, well used boots may have contributed to the break. Even with the new boots, and lots of pep talks, she now so anxious on the slopes I'm not sure we'll be able to overcome it.

I'd like to be a ski bum when I grow up retire, but I'm not sure where to move to. All the areas that may remain cold enough are also in the summer smoke/fire belt of BC (that's pretty much all of BC). I've lived in the wildfire path before and don't care for a repeat.

As for cost savings, get these boots for your kids, https://shop.roces.com/en/children-adjustable-ski-boots.html. Yes, they really do cover 3 foot sizes. My youngest has a pair bought used for $20.

Our "local" hill has a Rookie Year pass for kids. For a $50 upcharge on the kids seasons pass you get equipment rental and a lesson any day you want. My kids went from non-skiers to nearly black diamond capable in one season. They had almost 20 lessons that year. And I had 20 afternoons alone to ski the fun stuff :-)

My employer has a health and wellness benefit. So they reimburse me for $300 worth of my season's pass.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Lady SA on January 09, 2019, 02:35:21 PM
Guilty! Though I basically 99% XC ski and hardly ever downhill. I like downhill skiing once in a while, but I XC ski for a few hours 4x a week in preparation for the birkebiner and other big and small races.

The biggest costs during a typical year for us each year are race entry fees, annualized equipment costs, and season ski passes to the various trails we go train at--I just did a yearly review and we spent $4500 on sports last year (not just skiing, I also race kayaks in the summer). I did have to get new ski boots this past year because my old ones (10 years old) fell apart. We waited until spring/summer sales to pick up some really sweet Solomons on super sale (~$250). But even with that, the entry fees and passes both surpassed that cost... oof.

For me, skiing (and rowing/kayaking) is a healthy, life-long activity, and incidentally it is incredibly fun. It is a rare full-body aerobic and anaerobic activity and you get to spend time outside with trees and sun and fresh air. I believe I will live longer and have a healthier body for the rest of my life precisely because I ski. I consider the money I spend on the activity as an investment in my future health, which helps me sleep better at night after I add up all my ski bills :D

Like others on this thread, I would like to FIRE precisely to spend MORE time doing these activities and they bring me joy and health (double whammy!), so I'm not willing to cut them much if at all.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: peeps_be_peeping on January 09, 2019, 05:04:27 PM
Skiing is my favorite outdoor activity. I'm totally guilty of overspending on everything skiing. I have at least 20+ pairs of skis of all kinds, xc and downhill and AT and telemark (lost count at this point to be honest), 9 (?) pairs of ski boots, and multiple ski outfits for a variety of weather conditions, activity levels, and hip girths (gaaaah!). I have 7 pairs of my favorite skis because the company discontinued that model so I had to get a few extra for the future. It's kind of a problem. Last year I spent $1,573 on downhill skiing, which in hindsight doesn't seem as bad as it could have been. This includes lift tickets and equipment, but does not include gas, clothing, or a 2-week trip to Switzerland (which was actually pretty cheap at about $2,000). This season I promised myself I would not buy another pair of skis. I also managed to get rid of two old pairs.

I do it all, but these days I am doing more backcountry nordic skiing and less skate skiing, lift serviced downhill skiing, and AT skiing. Skate skiing hurts my hip, downhill skiing is expensive and crowded, and AT skiing is more crowded than I'd like it to be and I am still spooked from experiencing an avalanche two years ago (though nobody was hurt). Backcountry nordic is a fairly mustachian activity because the gear can often be bought used for much less than new and it lasts a while. I ski on 10-year old metal edged touring skis with ~20 year old (don't know, just guessing) full grain welted leather boots. No lift ticket required and you get some exercise too. I figure at this point I have so much downhill skiing under my belt that it will be fun to explore the limits of metal-edged touring and meadow skipping for a while.

Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 09, 2019, 07:31:03 PM
Oh good, now I don't feel really weird about the urge to hoard skis. 

I'm in such a bizzaro niche of the ski market (xcd/heavy xc/light tele/whatever you want to call it) that whenever any manufacturer acknowledges us and makes something new, I HAVE TO TRY IT. If I like it, OMG I NEED TO BUY ALL OF THEM BECAUSE I MIGHT NOT EVER SEE ANYTHING LIKE IT AGAIN.

Current gear tally: 8.5 pairs of skis ( I broke one resulting in a half set), 4 pairs of boots and another 4 pair that have suffered pretty severe damage, but I refuse to give up because they might be salvageable. 

I just have to remind myself that I could probably duct tape 2x4s to my feet and probably still have a good time....
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 09, 2019, 07:49:04 PM
When I lived in a more rural area, I'd literally head out my front door, cross the road, put on my skis, and go.

Thankfully, I have this option too.  I live at the end of a pretty massive watershed.  As such, it tends to be kinda swampy. Winter is really the only time you can venture out in the woods without wading through puddles and getting eaten alive by mosquitoes.  I can literally go all day out my front door.  Head out, build a fire around lunch time, turn around and head back. Once in 15 years of doing this, I crossed paths with my neighbor on his snowmobile.  We were equally as shocked to see each other.

 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: biggrey on January 09, 2019, 08:18:43 PM
Yes skiing.  Fantastic.  By my rough calculation I've spent $150,000 on it over the last 15 years.  I might be lowballing that number.  Ski fees of all types, equipment, perhaps 10 dedicated trips over the years, etc., for me and family of four. 

Yes, I'm lowballing.  It might be closer to $200,000.

That doesn't include the 2nd home. 

Ouch.

Wouldn't have traded a MINUTE of it.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: jeninco on January 09, 2019, 08:33:54 PM
We're tele-dirtbags in Colorado, and we do a bunch of things to keep it reasonable:

I patrol with a Nordic/backcountry patrol, so I can go skate or track-ski at our area for free as long as I'm wearing a jacket and carrying a first aid pack,
Backcountry skiing is 45 minutes from our back door
Used gear for everyone! The kids have area and AT gear (we tried to teach them to tele, but they were having none of it, and it's about being in the backcountry, not about whether your heels are locked down, in the end) Our gear was mostly purchased used, and we take care of it.
Also used clothing, mostly.
Passes/discount coupons to a small(ish) local area. Kid passes are <$150, and the rest of us can get ticket prices capped at $50 or so
Older kid asked for a multi-area pass as his big end-of-year gift, so he goes with friends.
President's Day trip will be to a (different) small area that's in the south of the state and getting hammered with snow. VBRO, we'll do most or all of our cooking, etc.

We also do a hut trip for Christmas each year through the Tenth Mountain Hut system. It's gotten a bit more expensive (I remember when it was $20/night/person), but we ski 5+ miles into a lovely chalet with a fairly full kitchen, wood stoves, bunks, big south-facing windows, and generally fairly agreeable hut-mates.

As was mentioned, it's a thing we do with each other and the kids and a nice way to spend time outdoors, in the mountains, sometimes together. It's a value that we choose to spend on.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: The Guru on January 09, 2019, 08:52:07 PM
Skiing, like most pursuits can be enjoyed in a Mustachian fashion...or not. Certainly XC skiing can be done more cheaply than downhill. And when you live as I do in an area that routinely competes for the Golden Snow Globe Award it's wise to find SOME means to avoid going nuts during the winter months.

I started XCing about 1980. I've owned 4 pairs of skis since then. The first pair I bought JUST fell apart (literally) last winter. I've since adopted my wife's first pair. As far as where to go, we can go in the local state park for nothing, or if I want to skate pony up $20 for a trail pass for a nearby XC ski lodge. Pretty cheap all things considered...

...especially considering the fringe benefits: time spent w/ like-minded friends. A reason to LOOK FORWARD TO a nice accumulation of snow. Afternoons spent in the snowy silence of a wooded trail. The endorphin rush of a great workout, and the full-body exhaustion that follows. Let's not forget that Mustachianism involves appreciation for nature, time spent with others, physical fitness and "muscle over motor", not just seeing how cheaply one can get thru life.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on January 10, 2019, 05:02:17 AM
This is a thread for me. I love unmotorized winter sports.

Cross Country skiing is my great hobby. I love to do it on lightweight narrow skis in prepared trail. But I also like shuffling around on broad skis (with iron sides) outside the trails, following wildlife tracks or just climbing a mountain.

As I was 23 when I stood on skis for the first time, and 24 when I moved to a country with snow, I never learned well to do alpine skiing. I tried once a year for the first few years I lived in Norway. I have even taken a course. But as I never got skilled enough to get out of the children's hill, I have given up on it and just focus on cross country skiing. I have taken a 1 hour course on that a few years ago, with a very good trainer, and that helped enormously to improve my technique. Although I do not always have the breath to ski with proper technique all the time.

We live in the Oslo region. In a good winter, we have lots of trails and I go skiing every day I am free. Sometimes also in the evenings with a headlight, or in moonlight. But in bad winters, it can be depressing to be a skier. This winter, I skied here twice in November/December.

We also own a cabin in a area that is generally very cold and has long winters (Røros region). We spend the days between Christmas and new year there and could ski there every day. This cabin is not in a popular skiing area, as there is no alpine skiing hill there, so it is quite affordable. The make tracks with snow scooters, that are narrower than normal tracks. So a little tricky when going steeply downhill. But there are several tracks in the mountains above the tree border and that is very beautiful. The area is quite remote and you can find lots of animal tracks.
When I go outside the tracks and down hill, I have some trouble going down hill smoothly. I can either ski straight down, or I can break the whole way. I can make very careful turns on flat surfaces. And in worst case, I step down sideways in the steep parts. As you understand, I don't enjoy skiing steep downhill, because of my lack of skills. But I do enjoy circumstances with good snow where I can turn between trees and somehow get down the hill. I hate icy snow.

We also like to make a several day trip on broad skis, of track. Preferably staying in cabins. But we have also winter camped several times, but with only 1 night in the tent per trip. Your stuff get very wet when it is cold and I'm not sure how to solve that on a multiple day trip.
I tend to get blisters when I use those wide, heavy skis. I have me third pair of boots, but they also give blisters. It usually happens when I meet a normal skiing trail and try to ski with normal technique on these heavy skis. Also fishgrating uphill causes blisters. Just shuffling around on them goes best, with lots of tape on my heels to prevent blisters. But also because of this blister issue, I am sceptic of doing very long trips. Several times I have had to shortcut a long trip because of my feet being hurt deeply.

We just got a new layer of snow the other day. I don't work on Fridays anymore and hope to go skiing tomorrow on a prepared trail. In the region where I live the tracks are quite crowded in the weekend. But it was not the case in November/December, when people probably spent there weekends in shopping centers to buy Christmas gifts. I had of course ordered everything online.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Trifele on January 10, 2019, 05:22:45 AM
Posting to follow.  XC skiing is my favorite outdoor activity, period.  It is life.  I moved to Upstate NY in my early 20s, and spent many, many happy days in the Tug Hill region and the Adirondacks on the most beautiful trails in the world (my humble opinion).  Since moving away from there I have been seriously ski deprived.  Now that I am FIREing (hooray!) I hope to become a ski bum and spend lots of time back in NY,or else in other areas yet to be discovered. 

FWIW, I never learned to downhill ski, and have never paid for a XC ski pass . . . It's been all state and federal land.  My gear is pretty basic.  I've had three pair of skis, and probably spent a total of $2500 or so (?) on gear over the past 30 years.   
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on January 10, 2019, 07:06:25 AM
I have a small ski park. My alpine skis and boots are sold some years ago, as they weren't used.

I own a pair of medium broad CC skis with steel sides for off trail maintain skiing, Åsnes Rago. I have BC bindings and boots, I think Alfa Skarvet. The skis have an option to click on short skins, which I like to use at difficult waxing circumstances. I hate using the sticky stuff, that is not wax. What do you call it in English? Norwegian name: klister. Skins are great for uphill.

I have a pair of nice, narrow CC skis for good circumstances in prepared trails. Bought on sale for a 4th of the normal price.
My old similar pair is used during not so good circumstances, with little snow or lots of pine needles in the trail. Also bought on sale at the end of the season.
I have a pair of zero skis, bought cheaply. They have a sort of filt in the waxing zone. Great for around zero or above zero temperatures. I have also used them on marginally circumstances, like in the spring when there is very little snow left and we still go skiing.
At our cabin I keep to have my 20 year old beginner skis, quite heavy and a bit wider than fast skis. But they were eventually so broken and my shoe hurt in the old type of binding, that I ditched them. I bought a replacement pair of the el cheapo kind at the end of the season. Those are also a bit wider than fast skis, but they are not so heavy as the 20 year old ones. I used them under all circumstances at the cabin. They work surprisingly well.

My DH has a similar set of skis. In addition he has: a pair of skating skis, a pair of narrower mountain skis with steel sides and a pair of old, broad mountain skis. And he still has his alpine skis.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 10, 2019, 07:34:02 AM

When I go outside the tracks and down hill, I have some trouble going down hill smoothly. I can either ski straight down, or I can break the whole way. I can make very careful turns on flat surfaces. And in worst case, I step down sideways in the steep parts. As you understand, I don't enjoy skiing steep downhill, because of my lack of skills. But I do enjoy circumstances with good snow where I can turn between trees and somehow get down the hill.

If you ever want to try picking up some new skills for getting down the hill, try and find a copy of Cross-Country Downhill and Other Nordic Mountain Skiing Techniques by Steve Barnett. It's been out of print for a while and achieved something of a cult status, so used prices can sometimes be a little bonkers though.   

As for keeping dry when winter camping? Wood stove.  My cotton tent and steel stove aren't the lightest, but can easily be moved around in a ski pulk.  Plenty of fuel to be found where I ski.  Getting the tent cranked up to near 70 degrees while relaxing on open snow floor is one of my favorite things. 

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8246/8586250360_00b29ac5e1_z.jpg)
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Blackbeard on January 10, 2019, 08:13:56 AM
DH Skiing and Mountain Biking are two of the main reasons we decided to FIRE.  Our entire FIRE plan was based on being able to do these two sports.  Here are our life hacks, the RE Police may not like it. 

We scoured the country for the right ratio of value to ability to ski and ride and bought a condo with a room that can be rented out for profit during the ski season.
The resort we're at is owned by one of the two main resort conglomerates in the US (Either Aspen or Vail).
We converted a van in to an RV to store Skis and Bikes for 20-35 day trips.
We became certifed Ski Instructors and have agreed to work for our resort on the weekends and the major holidays.

Why this is an awesome system for Post FIRE.
Employees get free skiing at any resort owned by the main company.
Employees get discounted employee housing at any resort owned by the company.
Employees get 30-50% of all food at resort owned restuarants.
Employees get pro deals on most equipment.  Most pro deals are 40-60% off of retail.
We so far have averaged $300/weekend each from tips and hourly rate.
My skiing has drastically improved.  First from being on skis almost everyday.  Second from all of the clinics and other instructors working with you on form and technique.
My favorite I'm not the fucking boss.  I do what I'm told and get to enjoy the customers.  Yes there are d-bags every once and awhile but for the most part people are enjoying themselves.

Here is our plan to enjoy the best part of the gig.  We've worked it out with our manager to work Christmas through Feb 3rd, weekends and holidays.  After that we get the next two months off, but we're still on the payroll, so we can go to any of the resorts for free.  So we'll be able to enjoy all of Feb and March skiing just about any geography in the US for free!

So something that we would have paid several thousand per year to do in FIRE we've worked into making $3-4,000 per year.  FIRE gave us the ability to pursue this as a good balance. 

I wake up everyday fucking excited.  We just got 9" of snow.  So I'm about 20 minutes from rope drop.  There is no one out there because it's a Thursday!   
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 10, 2019, 08:28:57 AM
Good deal!

A buddy of mine patrols for a midwestern franchise of one the aforementioned conglomerates and also gets many of the same benefits you do.   
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: BuildingFrugalHabits on January 10, 2019, 08:30:09 AM

When I go outside the tracks and down hill, I have some trouble going down hill smoothly. I can either ski straight down, or I can break the whole way. I can make very careful turns on flat surfaces. And in worst case, I step down sideways in the steep parts. As you understand, I don't enjoy skiing steep downhill, because of my lack of skills. But I do enjoy circumstances with good snow where I can turn between trees and somehow get down the hill.

If you ever want to try picking up some new skills for getting down the hill, try and find a copy of Cross-Country Downhill and Other Nordic Mountain Skiing Techniques by Steve Barnett. It's been out of print for a while and achieved something of a cult status, so used prices can sometimes be a little bonkers though.   

As for keeping dry when winter camping? Wood stove.  My cotton tent and steel stove aren't the lightest, but can easily be moved around in a ski pulk.  Plenty of fuel to be found where I ski.  Getting the tent cranked up to near 70 degrees while relaxing on open snow floor is one of my favorite things. 

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8246/8586250360_00b29ac5e1_z.jpg)

This is really cool.  I love skiing and I've done a few hut trips but never anything like what you're describing.  Are you basically packing everything in on a big sled?  I'm interested in hearing more about your trips and setup/kit if you feel like sharing.  From my perspective, skiing and biking are two things I'm passionate about and give myself permission to spend money on within reason.  Two things about skiing I've always found nuts are the real estate prices in ski towns and the vehicles have for "the lifestyle".  No, I don't think you need a 50k, 15 mpg suv with a $1,000 roof rack+box. A prius with snow tires can work fine.  I've found that reasonably priced food options can be found in town as long as you aren't eating on the slopes.  Also, happy hour specials often make beer cheaper up there vs where I live. Go figure.   

Gear:  I buy good stuff on sale and keep it until it wears out.  I'm still skiing with a north face shell that's almost 20 years old and a pair of arctryx pants purchased in 2005.  Good gear amortized over it's lifecycle isn't too expensive.  Skis can be had very inexpensively, especially when purchased in the off-season. 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: BuildingFrugalHabits on January 10, 2019, 08:35:22 AM
DH Skiing and Mountain Biking are two of the main reasons we decided to FIRE.  Our entire FIRE plan was based on being able to do these two sports.  Here are our life hacks, the RE Police may not like it. 

We scoured the country for the right ratio of value to ability to ski and ride and bought a condo with a room that can be rented out for profit during the ski season.
The resort we're at is owned by one of the two main resort conglomerates in the US (Either Aspen or Vail).
We converted a van in to an RV to store Skis and Bikes for 20-35 day trips.
We became certifed Ski Instructors and have agreed to work for our resort on the weekends and the major holidays.

Why this is an awesome system for Post FIRE.
Employees get free skiing at any resort owned by the main company.
Employees get discounted employee housing at any resort owned by the company.
Employees get 30-50% of all food at resort owned restuarants.
Employees get pro deals on most equipment.  Most pro deals are 40-60% off of retail.
We so far have averaged $300/weekend each from tips and hourly rate.
My skiing has drastically improved.  First from being on skis almost everyday.  Second from all of the clinics and other instructors working with you on form and technique.
My favorite I'm not the fucking boss.  I do what I'm told and get to enjoy the customers.  Yes there are d-bags every once and awhile but for the most part people are enjoying themselves.

Here is our plan to enjoy the best part of the gig.  We've worked it out with our manager to work Christmas through Feb 3rd, weekends and holidays.  After that we get the next two months off, but we're still on the payroll, so we can go to any of the resorts for free.  So we'll be able to enjoy all of Feb and March skiing just about any geography in the US for free!

So something that we would have paid several thousand per year to do in FIRE we've worked into making $3-4,000 per year.  FIRE gave us the ability to pursue this as a good balance. 

I wake up everyday fucking excited.  We just got 9" of snow.  So I'm about 20 minutes from rope drop.  There is no one out there because it's a Thursday!

Yes, this is awesome!!
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: dude on January 10, 2019, 08:40:24 AM
The one thing I will say about backcountry vs. resort is this - if you're an experienced skier/rider (AND have proper avalanche training), backcountry is a great way to go. However, if you're not, then you aren't going to get much better as a skier/rider -- to do that, you need to log in many, many vertical laps, which can really only be done on lift-served terrain.

I have an Epic Pass and consider it a screaming deal (it was like $640). I can use it at a ton of resorts and if I get in enough days, it makes those days pretty damn cheap (20 days = $32/day).  Next year, when I'm retired, I will likely get the Epic Pass and the Ikon Pass, because I'm certain to get in more than enough days to make them worthwhile, in addition to the backcountry days I'll get (not to mention slackcountry time outside the resort gates).

Have an annual backcountry yurt trip coming up in Feb/Mar that I can't wait for!
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: dude on January 10, 2019, 08:42:10 AM
DH Skiing and Mountain Biking are two of the main reasons we decided to FIRE.  Our entire FIRE plan was based on being able to do these two sports.  Here are our life hacks, the RE Police may not like it. 

We scoured the country for the right ratio of value to ability to ski and ride and bought a condo with a room that can be rented out for profit during the ski season.
The resort we're at is owned by one of the two main resort conglomerates in the US (Either Aspen or Vail).
We converted a van in to an RV to store Skis and Bikes for 20-35 day trips.
We became certifed Ski Instructors and have agreed to work for our resort on the weekends and the major holidays.

Why this is an awesome system for Post FIRE.
Employees get free skiing at any resort owned by the main company.
Employees get discounted employee housing at any resort owned by the company.
Employees get 30-50% of all food at resort owned restuarants.
Employees get pro deals on most equipment.  Most pro deals are 40-60% off of retail.
We so far have averaged $300/weekend each from tips and hourly rate.
My skiing has drastically improved.  First from being on skis almost everyday.  Second from all of the clinics and other instructors working with you on form and technique.
My favorite I'm not the fucking boss.  I do what I'm told and get to enjoy the customers.  Yes there are d-bags every once and awhile but for the most part people are enjoying themselves.

Here is our plan to enjoy the best part of the gig.  We've worked it out with our manager to work Christmas through Feb 3rd, weekends and holidays.  After that we get the next two months off, but we're still on the payroll, so we can go to any of the resorts for free.  So we'll be able to enjoy all of Feb and March skiing just about any geography in the US for free!

So something that we would have paid several thousand per year to do in FIRE we've worked into making $3-4,000 per year.  FIRE gave us the ability to pursue this as a good balance. 

I wake up everyday fucking excited.  We just got 9" of snow.  So I'm about 20 minutes from rope drop.  There is no one out there because it's a Thursday!

@Blackbeard, do you have any pics or info on your can conversion? Very interested. Planning to do one myself for a Retirement Road Trip next summer.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Blackbeard on January 10, 2019, 09:29:22 AM
@dude Ill do you one better.  I’m shamelessly stealing the basics from this website.  The garage and bed platform are the same, I’m doing something different in the front.  Most of my inspiration came from them for electrical/water.  www.FarOutRide.com.  When I buy something I check their site first to see if I can throw them some affiliate $$$.



Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 10, 2019, 09:30:24 AM
The one thing I will say about backcountry vs. resort is this - if you're an experienced skier/rider (AND have proper avalanche training), backcountry is a great way to go. However, if you're not, then you aren't going to get much better as a skier/rider -- to do that, you need to log in many, many vertical laps, which can really only be done on lift-served terrain.

That may certainly be true for big mountain skiing out west (and yeah, don't ignore the avalanche training), but in the midwest, I'd venture to guess the opposite might be true.

To be fair, I've certainly logged a fair amount of time in chairlifts in heavy duty full plastic gear learning the basics of technique- but you never really get a chance to learn how to deal with a wide array of conditions at a midwestern resort.  Case in point: I know plenty of long time skiers who just go into an utter rage if more than 2" of fresh snow is not immediately groomed into oblivion. They are unable to deal with anything resembling powder. 

As such, midwestern backcountry skiers often put on this elite air about themselves as if BC skiing (no matter the terrain or conditions) somehow elevates them among the common herd, myself included.

Which is really kind of unfortunate, because you don't need to be an expert in anything to point your skis down a moderate glade in your backyard. 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: ericrugiero on January 10, 2019, 09:32:40 AM
DH Skiing and Mountain Biking are two of the main reasons we decided to FIRE.  Our entire FIRE plan was based on being able to do these two sports.  Here are our life hacks, the RE Police may not like it. 

We scoured the country for the right ratio of value to ability to ski and ride and bought a condo with a room that can be rented out for profit during the ski season.
The resort we're at is owned by one of the two main resort conglomerates in the US (Either Aspen or Vail).
We converted a van in to an RV to store Skis and Bikes for 20-35 day trips.
We became certifed Ski Instructors and have agreed to work for our resort on the weekends and the major holidays.

Why this is an awesome system for Post FIRE.
Employees get free skiing at any resort owned by the main company.
Employees get discounted employee housing at any resort owned by the company.
Employees get 30-50% of all food at resort owned restuarants.
Employees get pro deals on most equipment.  Most pro deals are 40-60% off of retail.
We so far have averaged $300/weekend each from tips and hourly rate.
My skiing has drastically improved.  First from being on skis almost everyday.  Second from all of the clinics and other instructors working with you on form and technique.
My favorite I'm not the fucking boss.  I do what I'm told and get to enjoy the customers.  Yes there are d-bags every once and awhile but for the most part people are enjoying themselves.

Here is our plan to enjoy the best part of the gig.  We've worked it out with our manager to work Christmas through Feb 3rd, weekends and holidays.  After that we get the next two months off, but we're still on the payroll, so we can go to any of the resorts for free.  So we'll be able to enjoy all of Feb and March skiing just about any geography in the US for free!

So something that we would have paid several thousand per year to do in FIRE we've worked into making $3-4,000 per year.  FIRE gave us the ability to pursue this as a good balance. 

I wake up everyday fucking excited.  We just got 9" of snow.  So I'm about 20 minutes from rope drop.  There is no one out there because it's a Thursday!

This sounds great to me.  My wife doesn't ski but I still hope to be in a situation someday where I can be a ski instructor. 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on January 10, 2019, 12:37:07 PM

When I go outside the tracks and down hill, I have some trouble going down hill smoothly. I can either ski straight down, or I can break the whole way. I can make very careful turns on flat surfaces. And in worst case, I step down sideways in the steep parts. As you understand, I don't enjoy skiing steep downhill, because of my lack of skills. But I do enjoy circumstances with good snow where I can turn between trees and somehow get down the hill.

If you ever want to try picking up some new skills for getting down the hill, try and find a copy of Cross-Country Downhill and Other Nordic Mountain Skiing Techniques by Steve Barnett. It's been out of print for a while and achieved something of a cult status, so used prices can sometimes be a little bonkers though.   

As for keeping dry when winter camping? Wood stove.  My cotton tent and steel stove aren't the lightest, but can easily be moved around in a ski pulk.  Plenty of fuel to be found where I ski.  Getting the tent cranked up to near 70 degrees while relaxing on open snow floor is one of my favorite things. 

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8246/8586250360_00b29ac5e1_z.jpg)

Looks very comfortable. We have such pulkas as well, one cheap orange plastic one and one home made. Our tent is a nylon trekking tent, quite large, as Hilleberg Kaitum 3 p, but I wouldn't dare to put a wood stove in it. I think we would need another tent for that purpose.

We do tend to make a campfire outside so that we are watm in good weather. It is very romantic and feels like you are alive if you lay with your spouse on a mattress in the snow on a mountain with very little wind around a campfire the whole evening, nipping something tasty and getting visited by an owl who takes a look at what is going on.

We have made a plate for our petrol stove, which we can now put in the tent. We can warm up our tent with that, as long as one of us stays awake. We often also fill a metal flask with hot water and put it in a sock in the sleeping bag. That helps.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on January 10, 2019, 12:39:59 PM
DH Skiing and Mountain Biking are two of the main reasons we decided to FIRE.  Our entire FIRE plan was based on being able to do these two sports.  Here are our life hacks, the RE Police may not like it. 

We scoured the country for the right ratio of value to ability to ski and ride and bought a condo with a room that can be rented out for profit during the ski season.
The resort we're at is owned by one of the two main resort conglomerates in the US (Either Aspen or Vail).
We converted a van in to an RV to store Skis and Bikes for 20-35 day trips.
We became certifed Ski Instructors and have agreed to work for our resort on the weekends and the major holidays.

Why this is an awesome system for Post FIRE.
Employees get free skiing at any resort owned by the main company.
Employees get discounted employee housing at any resort owned by the company.
Employees get 30-50% of all food at resort owned restuarants.
Employees get pro deals on most equipment.  Most pro deals are 40-60% off of retail.
We so far have averaged $300/weekend each from tips and hourly rate.
My skiing has drastically improved.  First from being on skis almost everyday.  Second from all of the clinics and other instructors working with you on form and technique.
My favorite I'm not the fucking boss.  I do what I'm told and get to enjoy the customers.  Yes there are d-bags every once and awhile but for the most part people are enjoying themselves.

Here is our plan to enjoy the best part of the gig.  We've worked it out with our manager to work Christmas through Feb 3rd, weekends and holidays.  After that we get the next two months off, but we're still on the payroll, so we can go to any of the resorts for free.  So we'll be able to enjoy all of Feb and March skiing just about any geography in the US for free!

So something that we would have paid several thousand per year to do in FIRE we've worked into making $3-4,000 per year.  FIRE gave us the ability to pursue this as a good balance. 

I wake up everyday fucking excited.  We just got 9" of snow.  So I'm about 20 minutes from rope drop.  There is no one out there because it's a Thursday!

That sounds like a very good retirement, no matter that you still do some work on your own conditions.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: wbranch on January 10, 2019, 01:17:03 PM
I only have snowshoes and there endless amounts of public lands to explore within 2 hours drive of where we live. But my job has busy season during the winter so I will probably "only" get out half a dozen times. Some of it may just be hiking at lower elevations. I do get considerable time off from May to Dec is a trade off to have more time for summer and fall activities. Normal winters do have decent snow in Nov and Dec and there are several affordable ski resorts with 2k+ vertical within 2 hours. Debating taking some lessons next winter but that is low on my list of priorities. Currently some Altai style skis are on my wants list, but there are many things above them on the list so who knows if it will happen.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: peeps_be_peeping on January 10, 2019, 01:59:40 PM
Volunteering at an adaptive ski school was how I skied cheaply the winter I was funemployed. For every two 4 hour lessons taught I earned a $10 lift ticket. I got to ski the bunny hill a zillion times with the students. The students were mostly developmentally delayed kids who were always in a good mood, excited to be on a field trip away from school, with their friends, and drinking hot chocolate afterwards. I became a certified alpine ski instructor as well, which improved my own technique as I hadn't had a lesson since about 1993, though I started skiing in 1981. There was a core group of mid week volunteers who were retired (early or not) or who worked for money only in the summer (in tourism or fishing). I would love for volunteer ski instructing to be my early retirement "job."
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: WhiteTrashCash on January 10, 2019, 05:24:34 PM
Growing up, skiing was something only "rich" people could do -- like the elitist children of the local business owners on Hillbilly Mountain who would wear their lift tickets on their jackets to school to prove to everyone that their families could afford to go. Now that I'm "rich" -- by Hillbilly Mountain standards -- I've become interested in going skiing in as much of a Mustachian way as possible. That means taking a sample lesson at a discount to see if we like it and then getting our equipment on Craiglist/secondhand shop, because only chumps buy that stuff new.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Fishindude on January 10, 2019, 06:27:44 PM
Downhill skiing is great fun.  If it's your thing, then go for it.
Find other areas of your life where you can reduce costs and save money so that you can afford to ski without putting yourself in any type of financial burden.
Plenty of good ideas in this thread on how to keep it cheap too.

Life is short, do what you enjoy.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: EnjoyIt on January 10, 2019, 09:17:20 PM
DH Skiing and Mountain Biking are two of the main reasons we decided to FIRE.  Our entire FIRE plan was based on being able to do these two sports.  Here are our life hacks, the RE Police may not like it. 

We scoured the country for the right ratio of value to ability to ski and ride and bought a condo with a room that can be rented out for profit during the ski season.
The resort we're at is owned by one of the two main resort conglomerates in the US (Either Aspen or Vail).
We converted a van in to an RV to store Skis and Bikes for 20-35 day trips.
We became certifed Ski Instructors and have agreed to work for our resort on the weekends and the major holidays.

Why this is an awesome system for Post FIRE.
Employees get free skiing at any resort owned by the main company.
Employees get discounted employee housing at any resort owned by the company.
Employees get 30-50% of all food at resort owned restuarants.
Employees get pro deals on most equipment.  Most pro deals are 40-60% off of retail.
We so far have averaged $300/weekend each from tips and hourly rate.
My skiing has drastically improved.  First from being on skis almost everyday.  Second from all of the clinics and other instructors working with you on form and technique.
My favorite I'm not the fucking boss.  I do what I'm told and get to enjoy the customers.  Yes there are d-bags every once and awhile but for the most part people are enjoying themselves.

Here is our plan to enjoy the best part of the gig.  We've worked it out with our manager to work Christmas through Feb 3rd, weekends and holidays.  After that we get the next two months off, but we're still on the payroll, so we can go to any of the resorts for free.  So we'll be able to enjoy all of Feb and March skiing just about any geography in the US for free!

So something that we would have paid several thousand per year to do in FIRE we've worked into making $3-4,000 per year.  FIRE gave us the ability to pursue this as a good balance. 

I wake up everyday fucking excited.  We just got 9" of snow.  So I'm about 20 minutes from rope drop.  There is no one out there because it's a Thursday!

@Blackbeard,
Thank you so much for your comments.  I am a ski junkie.  I love it soooooo much and can ski for 8 hours a day every day.  Once your kid is old enough to start taking lessons we will be looking to move somewhere close enough to a mountain.  You may have given us something to think about regarding cheap skiing and gear.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: ice_beard on January 10, 2019, 11:13:46 PM
I've got about 20 pairs of skis in my garage.  I have done it all, from skinny ski tours through the snow, skate skiing to ski mountaineering in Alaska.  Backcountry skiing is truly a dirtbag pursuit.  The best BC skiers I knew in Alaska were skiing on what most people would consider antiquated gear, but they got the most turns in the best conditions season after season.  They weren't spending much money on that pursuit because they didn't have much. 

As someone mentioned upthread, backcountry skiing has gotten trendy.  The gear is more user friendly, fat skis, friendly bindings, comfy, lightweight boots....  pretty much anyone can do it now.  So it's more popular.  I live ~3 hrs from skiing now and it seems the usual bc spots are busy.  People skiing on top of you when they shouldn't, more tracks, etc.  These days I enjoy plodding around on lightweight tele gear, aka "meadow skipping", or plain 'ol xc skis making tracks through the woods.  This type of skiing does not cost any money once the gear is in place which can be had for far under retail. 

You can get used gear at thrift stores in/near mountain towns to get nordic gear or even skis.  Get boots that fit, blisters can ruin your skiing adventures quick.  Beginning of the season ski swaps are good.  Independent ski/gear shops many times have a second hand section where deals can be had, but my favorite source for good, used gear are demo/rental fleets.  You can usually get very well maintained gear for a fraction of the cost.  Most stores start selling their demo skis in March.

Season passes are actually a fraction of what they used to cost.  It used to be passes were very expensive and day lift tickets were cheap.  Now a day pass at Vail is $209 (!!!!OMFG!!!!) and a season pass that will get you into many resorts across North America is like $600.  This is the first season I haven't bought a pass in several years.  I'm saving that $$ for our bi-annual ski trip to Japan which we will do next winter. 

Now, a fantastic cultural and phenomenal ski trip to Japan can be had for a relatively reasonable price...  but that's another thread!!! 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on January 10, 2019, 11:56:48 PM
One of my frustrations with downhill skiing used to be the daily elevator pass, which is extremely expensive, especially if you only used the one simple track a few times. Having a seasonal pass is a much better investment, if you go there regularly.

My co-worker made a good deal. Our local alpine hill had seasonal passes for half price, before we know whether it will become a good snow season or not. They will produce snow when it is cold enough. So her son now has a local pass where she can drop him off often.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: skp on January 11, 2019, 12:24:19 AM
We live in the snow belt of Ohio and I love to ski even though after 20 years of skiing I'm not that good at it. I'm not that athletic a person.  If they had LD for gym class I would have been in it.  I'm also risk adverse. But for some reason I like skiing. Maybe it's because I just like being outside in the sunshine, and for someone that's not that athletic, you can ski at your own pace.  I took up skiing in my late 30s when my kids took lessons at a local ski resort.  I live 5 minutes from a Midwest ski slope (tilted corn field), 2-3 hours from  nicer New York resorts, and 11 hours from Smugglers Notch Vermont.  We've been to Vermont a half dozen times over 20 years and drive to New York about 3-4 times a year.  One year we drove out to Salt Lake City and did the rounds of all the ski resorts there.  As I said I am not the most athletic coordinated person and for the level skier I am, I've recently decided that I don't need to go to the "big" resorts.  Last year we got a season pass to the local tilted corn field.    Even though the local resort is not that challenging, it's cheap-  It's $300 for a season- and it's 5 minutes down the road.  We can go for an hour or 2 every single day if we want.  I didn't keep exact tract but last year we used it at least 20 times plus we took the adult children and their families to Vermont for a week for our vacation.

I've cheapened out on ski equipment and am wondering if that is a good idea.  I've  skied on the same equipment for 20 years.  After about 10 they won't check the release on your bindings.  I've disregarded this and just don't get them checked anymore since I'm doing low level skiing but always wondered if I was cheaping out on my safety.  A co worker yesterday asked me the same question.  I told her what I did, but I am wondering if any "experts" here can tell me if that is a good idea. My ski socks are the same ones I bought when I learned (they are only used for skiing) and I bought a good LL Bean gortex ski jacket that I loved and only recently replaced. I know liift tickets aren't cheap. To make things cheaper-  In New York we go mid week, it's such a long drive, we get a 4 hour pass. In Vermont  Smugglers Notch is a good deal compared to Stowe.  On last years family ski trip I bought every one a $100 bash badge and then they spent $25 a day to ski. The bash badge also got my adult children their rental gear at 50% off. We stayed in a VRBO and cooked.  Lunches at ski resorts are outrageous.  I even take my own tea bags.  I think our ski trip cost the same as a week at the beach. I just prefer skiing.

We also snow shoe but that is snow dependent.  There is always snow on the ski slopes- they make it!




Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on January 11, 2019, 01:26:52 AM
@skp I am also not very athletic. But the great thing about cross country skiing is that you can totally do it at your own level. I already enjoyed it when I was an absolute beginner and I still enjoy it. It is all about being outside in a natural place, often in the sun. There isn't that much else you can do in winter outside that gives excercise and enjoyment. Most roads are icy.

For your old downhill skis, it is important that they break if your binding goes loose. Very old skis don't have that. Then you would risk you ski disappearing with high speed downhill. If this is the case, you could connect your ski to your shoe in some improvised way. I saw someone doing that once when ge used backcountry skies is a ski slope.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 11, 2019, 03:35:16 AM
I've cheapened out on ski equipment and am wondering if that is a good idea.  I've  skied on the same equipment for 20 years.  After about 10 they won't check the release on your bindings.  I've disregarded this and just don't get them checked anymore since I'm doing low level skiing but always wondered if I was cheaping out on my safety.  A co worker yesterday asked me the same question.  I told her what I did, but I am wondering if any "experts" here can tell me if that is a good idea.

For what it's worth, I've skied non-releasable bindings for most of my ski career.  They're telemark bindings, so they allow your foot to flex forward and lift your heel, but any other direction- the release mechanism is whichever snaps fist: a steel cable or your ACL.  I'm still walking. :D

I guess it could be something you could check yourself, although I'm not exactly sure what that entails.

Worst case, new bindings shouldn't be terribly expensive- you could just have that part replaced. 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: ice_beard on January 11, 2019, 01:46:24 PM

I've cheapened out on ski equipment and am wondering if that is a good idea.  I've  skied on the same equipment for 20 years.  After about 10 they won't check the release on your bindings.  I've disregarded this and just don't get them checked anymore since I'm doing low level skiing but always wondered if I was cheaping out on my safety. 

I've got a set of modern alpine bindings, un-used I'll send you cheap.  I'm not using them, they are sitting in my garage getting older. 
I don't remember the make/model, but they are a major brand and were bought new at a ski shop end of season in like 2015 or 16.  PM me if interested. 

The "new" shaped skis make skiing so much easier, IMHO, they've probably saved skiing itself as most people new to snow sports were gravitating towards snowboarding over skiing up until those skis came out and made the learning curve much flatter.  I know if I was still skiing the trash heap ski hills of the Midwest (grew up skiing in ski Mecca of Indiana) I would probably be rockin' the most difficult skis I could find in order to make that 250' of elevation a challenge.  Ever thought about telemark skiing?  It's a blast.  I could set you up with a tele setup too!!

 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 11, 2019, 02:43:50 PM
I know if I was still skiing the trash heap ski hills of the Midwest

Hey, you be nice now! I'll have you know that we are now home to the 2nd best ski resort in the country: 

https://www.10best.com/awards/travel/best-ski-resort-2018/

Let that lack of editorial oversight sink in for a few minutes.  ;)   
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: TrMama on January 11, 2019, 02:44:43 PM
@skp  I'm newly very risk adverse wrt equipment (see my post above for the reason) and if those were my skis, I'd replace at least the bindings and boots. However, since newer used gear is so cheap, it's probably easier to just pick up some newer skis that also have newer bindings.

Bindings that don't release when you fall are a big risk to your joints and bones because the ski makes an excellent lever. However, the opposite is also a problem. If the binding releases (or breaks) when it shouldn't, you'll fall unexpectedly. When you're a kid and your joints are still rubbery, this isn't really a problem. It's also not much of a problem if the hill you're skiing is pretty flat. However, if you're on a steep slope, you could fall face first a long ways and if you're "mature" you may not bounce back very quickly.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: skp on January 11, 2019, 03:19:53 PM
I think I will buy new skiis at the end of the season.  They should last me until I retire from skiing.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Daisy on January 12, 2019, 01:58:23 AM
I got the IKON pass this year for $600. I plan to ski around 30 days. That's $20/day. Not bad for a Florida girl!

I make my own breakfast and pack a lunch for the mountain. I usually take sturdy vegetables like celery and carrots and a can of sardines and an apple. It's very easy to eat my homemade lunch at the restaurants/lodges on the mountains. Eat your frugal lunch while everyone else overpays for a burger or salad.

Pro-tip I received from another skier - bring your own powdered cocoa and get some free hot water on the mountain to make your own hot chocolate.

I try to stay at a hostel if alone, or rent a condo with friends. It's always nice to have a kitchen. I try to eat in as much as possible, unless swayed by friends to eat out occasionally. My one splurge would be a beer at apres-ski.

I splurged on custom boots about 10 years ago (no rental boots or off the shelf boots would fit my weird foot/calf ratio). I had the boots inspected last year and they are as good as new! I bought new skis at an end of season sale around 7 years ago so I don't need to rent equipment.

Ski towns usually have free transportation throughout the ski resort area.

Travel hack the flights.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Hula Hoop on January 12, 2019, 03:08:30 AM
Love these posts. My father grew up in rural Scandinavia and used to ski to his village school during the winter, ski to his friend's houses and generally just ski around town.  No one had cars back then and this is just how people got around. 

He immigrated to the US but is still very comfortable on a pair of cross country skis and straps them on whenever it snows.  However, he thinks down hill skiing is completely insane.  Skiing is a mode of transport for him and why on earth would anyone want to hurtle down hill at a million miles per hour, chop down all the trees and build chair lifts.  Not to mention spend $$$ on skis and ski gear (his dad used to make his skis out of wood).  My mother took me down hill skiing as a kid and he was terrified ("remember what happened to Sonny Bono!")


Anyway, thanks for putting this into words for me.  Skiing is indeed a very practical way to get around for people who live in snowy climates but it has unfortunately also become this  snobby and expensive industry that is horrible for the environment.

I went down hill skiing a few times during my non-mustachian days and agree that it is fun.  But the culture and industry that surrounds it is pretty non-mustachian.  Frankly, I'd rather put that money towards FIRE. 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 14, 2019, 08:04:48 PM
Oof. Season startup is always rough. 

Lessee...

$156.13 Not one, but TWO pairs of NNN BC boots. I'm in a panic because all my duckbills are down for the count. I may send one pair back as it overlaps with an existing, but less sexy pair I already own.   

$73 Finally made it over to the shoe repair guy 100 miles away. It was a down payment on getting two pairs of those boots I refuse to give up on back in service.

$299.95 1 pair Madshus Epoch 68 skis.   I miss the days when people couldn't give stuff like this away and it could be found for pennies on the internet.   

The good news is the warranty claim on my heavy ski boots is looking good. The bad news is the boots they replaced are probably going to get fixed. And I just bought new NNN BC boots to replace the replacements anyway.   

I'll leave out the $33 breakfast, $54 bar tab, and $27 of gas to go fatbiking with the wife and friends this weekend. It was a mandatory good time. ;)   

Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: peeps_be_peeping on January 14, 2019, 08:13:49 PM
I spent $0 to ski at my local club-operated town hill on Sunday. There were high winds so they couldn't operate the chairlifts. Only the T-Bar was running so they reduced the non-member lift ticket price and gave $0 lift tickets to club members like me. I did not buy any snacks or drinks. The snow wasn't half bad either.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on January 15, 2019, 12:53:52 AM

$299.95 1 pair Madshus Epoch 68 skis.   I miss the days when people couldn't give stuff like this away and it could be found for pennies on the internet.   

In Oslo the big skiing clubs have a ski market where parents can buy and sell children's skis for low prices. We once found some good quality backcountry skis there, very used. They were donated by a couple who bought new ones and thought the old ones were to good to ditch. Such places usually have some pairs for adults as well, but you won't have the biggest choice.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 15, 2019, 06:45:37 AM
Yeah, we have the same thing here. Unfortunately, that class of ski is kind of a niche here and the people who do buy them tend to ski them until there's nothing left. 

I'd been keeping an eye on the second hand markets for something similar since October but nothing ever came up at the right time. 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Much Fishing to Do on January 15, 2019, 09:11:12 AM
Our (admittedly modest) slopes have a season lift pass for $500.  Sure you can spend a ton off money on buying/replacing ski equipment but thats not necessary, there are ski swap used sales, and if you take care of your equipment it can last a very long time, so I think this can be small.

For someone fired who has the time to go often and loves it it doesn't seem that bad a spending choice to me.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: driftwood on January 15, 2019, 02:02:50 PM
Askel, thanks for the opportunity to throw my opinion on the internet.

TLDR - me blabbing about my skiing setup

I won't ever claim that the backcounty skiing I used to do or the downhill resort skiing I do now is mustachian at all. I've tried to do it mostly cheaply though, but that's not the same thing.

I've been through a few pairs of brand new boots, tried choosing myself, tried having an 'experienced' ski shop person help me choose... all pairs tore up my feet. Then I saw an ad for a ski shop selling old rental boots, bought a pair for $15. Holy shit my feet were in heaven! Those boots have been from the Snowbowl in AZ to Switzerland. I finally wore the bottom off and they couldn't clip into skis. :-( But I used the almighty power of the internet to find the exact same old model on eBay so now I'm on my second iteration of heaven. I am sad that when these die, that old model will probably not exist anywhere and I'll have to find a new pair.

I've also gone through multiple sets of skis... I've done telemark and alpine and then regular downhill setups. My current skis cost $20 from goodwill. They match my skiing ability very well, so I'm happy with them. I also know that no one in their right mind would ever steal those old pieces of shit, so that's nice as well. But then again my ski poles cost $120 I think.

And then there's the cost of lift tickets. I've been through some long dry spells when I didn't live near a place to ski. I finally won the skiing lottery though - got stationed in Colorado springs, I get the Epic Pass for $99, which is UNLIMITED visits to all Vail resorts for the whole season. HOLY FUCK! Yeah it's a big deal to me. I got stuck on a broken chairlift a few weeks ago at Vail for maybe 30ish minutes... I get off the lift and they give us all a pair of vouchers for lift tickets. That's pretty cool, but I was more excited about the hot chocolate voucher they gave us too. Until later, I look up these lift tickets, and they're charging $199 per lift ticket for one day. HOLY FUCKING SHIT THAT'S INSANE! And now I look at the other skiers now and wonder if they're paying that mad price to ski. If I had to pay that I'd quit skiing. So I'm obviously very thankful for the circumstances that are allowing me to ski for relatively cheap.

My clothes setup is all over the price map. Bought goggles new with swappable lenses,  but a $15 garage sale helmet. I wear mountaineering pants (probably cost $150-$200 in 2010), and a $90 hoodie, under a big $50 Walmart jacket. Mittens maybe $15. I definitely go with what works best, and I've gotten a lot better at looking at shiny expensive new gear and then walking away and finding a better option. I've started to really appreciate it when I have the feeling of the 'perfect' gear/clothes setup as opposed to the newest, cutting-edge technology, most baddassest setup.

I'd say the whole experience of backcountry skiing to a yurt or cabin, using an outhouse with a full moonlit-snow-covered view better than the view that many millionaires have was pretty incredible and hard to beat. But on the other hand the amount of downhill time I can get in a day at a groomed place is pretty incredible. Backcountry skiing was a cool way to travel in winter, but spending hours walking uphill and doing snow checks for avalanche danger just to ski down a 10-20 min run wasn't nearly as fun. More peaceful and magical though.

I saw it mentioned how there may be judgement about having old gear, but I've only noticed it when I used to ski with snowblades. Other than that, I think people may notice, but most don't give a shit. They want to ski/snowboard and that's what they're there for.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: draco44 on January 16, 2019, 08:10:09 AM
Casual, 1-3x/year downhill skier here. For me it's about maximizing slope time and minimizing expenses. Others touched on this with comments about bringing in your own food, but my specific strategy is to stuff all of the pockets of my coat with snacks and a PB&J sandwich or two for those precious few days while I am on the slopes. No time or money wasted buying overpriced food in the resort cafeteria or trekking back to the parking lot to your car, you can grab a bite on the chairlift if you want, and if you happen to fall, well, you just have a bit of extra padding.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Dr Kidstache on January 16, 2019, 08:48:17 AM
I am loving this thread. I've just taken up skate skiing this winter (moved somewhere with groomed trails just outside my door plus a couple nordic centers in town) and am taking lessons with a women's group in town. Also bought some snowshoes for tromping around the neighborhood with my dog.
I'm a former snowboarder, currently learning to downhill ski instead due to a disability that's easier to adapt for skiing. I'd love to be able to downhill ski more but it's costly and restricted because I can only go on days that I can participate in the adaptive program. My hope, though, is that I'll be able to mainstream by next winter and be able to get a season pass which will cut costs considerably.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: 2microsNH on January 16, 2019, 04:18:13 PM
I'm so happy to find this thread! I've been obsessed with XC skiing for the past two years... I've lived in New England and snowshoed here for 17 years, and two years ago finally bought a decent pair of metal-edged XC skis and boots, and I'm so obsessed it's distracting... when we have snow, the only thing I can think about is getting out on my skis. I'm also a cyclist and most of my friends have fat bikes for winter, but I'm just not interested in cycling all winter -- I'd rather ski.

I'll ski anywhere; if my skis will glide on it, I'll ski it. Last week I started in 1" of fresh snow that was slush by the time I finished (snow had turned to rain), and it was a blast. I have a pair of battered rock skis for the crappy-snow days and for skiing on roads and gravelly rail trails. I prefer trails and logging roads because I love the quiet and solitude, but I'll pay for a day on groomed trails occasionally if I want a different experience.

I live in southern NH and it's been really sad seeing the winters here change so much.... every winter storm used to bring at least some snow, but the past three years we've gotten a ton of rain and sleet all winter. Even in the monster storm hitting New England this Sunday, my town will start with snow and then likely change over to rain / mix. I anticipate eventually moving north where the snow is still decent.

On a related note, it drives me nuts when people complain about the snow or describe a snowstorm as "bad" weather. I judge people who use that language very harshly.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: skp on January 16, 2019, 04:32:56 PM
[qu  On a related note, it drives me nuts when people complain about the snow or describe a snowstorm as "bad" weather. I judge people who use that language very harshly.
[/quote]

LOL We say that all the time.  If you don't like snow why are you living in the snow belt of Ohio.  But on the other hand I get not liking to drive in the stuff, so my compromise is, let's coexist, I'm OK if it doesn't snow a foot,  as long as  it doesn't rain, and the temp doesn't go above 35.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on January 17, 2019, 07:18:34 AM
I prefer the snow to fall occasionally, but in big quantities. Then we need to clean it sometimes, but not every day.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: dude on January 17, 2019, 07:34:55 AM

Now, a fantastic cultural and phenomenal ski trip to Japan can be had for a relatively reasonable price...  but that's another thread!!!

@ice_beard, I did a Hokkaido ski trip a few years ago for my birthday -- one of the best trips of my life! Everything about that place is magical. The trip included 2 days of cat-assisted (i.e., the 'cat hauled us 45 minutes up the snow covered road to the base of a big cirque/mountains, and we skinned and skied surrounding terrain from there) and staying in a mom-and-pop onsen lodge on the Sea of Japan -- absolutely incredible! Been plotting a return to Japan ever since.  Hopefully next season.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: SEAK on January 17, 2019, 10:32:42 AM
I absolutely love all forms of skiing. Grew up in Alaska cross country and downhill skiing, switched to snowboarding in college, learned to telemark ski while teaching our kids to ski, and now have come full circle and mostly cross country and downhill ski. Best part of my job is when I use cross country skis to access our streamgage sites here in Alaska.

We mostly piece together used ski gear for ourselves and the kids. I haven't found skiing to be terribly expensive. Rates at our local city owned ski area are subsidized by the city and the local cross country trails are maintained by a local non-profit. And there are plenty of areas around to just go explore without trails.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 18, 2019, 02:11:30 PM
Another payday, another hundred bucks.

$57 on tubes and rim strips to undo a tubeless conversion on the used fat bike I bough.  Another $40 on new lowers and baskets for my Black Diamond Traverse poles. 

These poles have actually been a fairly decent investment. I tend to fall on my poles a lot, so they get bent. With these, I can just replace the bent lower every other year and the baskets roughly ever 4.   And I can adjust them from 155cm to 110cm- perfect for long stride XC or getting low and aggressive on the downhill.  About the only thing they don't really work for is skate. 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 18, 2019, 02:12:36 PM
Oh, and the good news is my warranty claim went through and one set of ski boots is back in action!  May be able to stay on 3 pins for the foreseeable future. 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: cookielover on January 20, 2019, 12:15:25 AM
I love downhill skiing.  We live about 2 hour away from a great NW ski resort.  SO and I get season passes every year and go to ski about 15 days a year.  After the initial investment on ski gears, clothes, and vehicle related upgrade (snow tires, ski box, etc), the cost each year is not that bad.  We try to ski cheaply.  We buy season passes with discount before season starts; we bring our snack and lunch, and we ski at least 5 to 6 hours whenever we go up to the mountain.  We usually buy medium to high quality new ski gears, usually at the end of the season. For us skiing is long term investment.  We get to spend quality bonding time together, exercise all day, and enjoy beautiful sceneries.  We plan to keep skiing until we are too old to ski, and hope we ski more after I retire.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on January 20, 2019, 01:51:25 AM
I don't know if it counts as winter sports, but last night we walked through the forest and the snow to the neighbouring village and made dinner on a campfire near a lake, just beyond the houses. That gave a 2 hour excercise and a nice way of having dinner.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on January 21, 2019, 04:35:46 AM
Both on Friday and on Sunday we went CC skiing close to home. On Friday the snow conditions were quite good, because we were in higher terrain. On Sunday there was minimal with snow and it was good that we used our old skies. Stones and other stuff came through the tracks in many places.

On Friday I was still a bit sick and had to stick to a short trip at slow speed. DH got heart rhythm trouble. On Sunday it went much better with both of us.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: bognish on January 25, 2019, 11:15:20 PM
I got laid off 7 days before the ski mountain I have a pass to opened for this season, so now I am a ski at home dad. So far 25 ski days for me this season.  Its been a great snow year for us, and I am really lucky to hit a lot of big storms (88" in the last 8 days!!!). It is amazing how empty the mountain is mid-week.

Skiing is our biggest discretionary spending category, but we find ways to make it affordable. It also makes me motivated to stay in shape and the quality time with kids can be beat. Most ski shops sell their demo skis at the end of the season for relatively low prices. $325 with bindings was the going rate last April. Nice thing with demo skis is the bindings are easy to adjust, so I can fit them to other boots when we get visitors. Local shops sell good kids skis & boots for about $125 total. With 2 kids we will get 3-4 seasons out of that $125 set up and then sell them for probably $50-$75. Keeping them tuned costs a couple beers and $10 wax per year. That's about it for costs for us. All the clothes we would have to buy anyways for other outside winter activities. We live 2 blocks from the ski bus, fare included with season pass. I drive when the kids come, but we are close so its maybe 1/3 gallon of gas. January 1 it was -5F so I sprung for a hot chocolate for my 8 year old. Otherwise we just come home when we are hungry.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Trifele on January 26, 2019, 02:18:06 AM
I got laid off 7 days before the ski mountain I have a pass to opened for this season, so now I am a ski at home dad.

Holy shit @bognish that is a sweet situation -- congratulations!!
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Geographer on January 26, 2019, 11:10:44 AM
I'm a fan of group discount lift tickets. I don't ski often, but occasionally cheap opportunities arise. Just this week went on a work-hosted trip for just $30-- a full day of skiing with charter bus transportation to and from the resort included. Brought my own meals/snacks and my ski gear which I've had for almost 10 years.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on January 28, 2019, 05:08:47 AM
We got a good bunch of snow this weekend. Good for the skiing circumstances close to home.
Unfortunately I will be away from home for the next 2 weekends. But maybe we can ski on some weekday evening. Now that the snow conditions are good, it is tempting to do so.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: The Guru on January 28, 2019, 05:08:33 PM
[qu  On a related note, it drives me nuts when people complain about the snow or describe a snowstorm as "bad" weather. I judge people who use that language very harshly.

LOL We say that all the time. If you don't like snow why are you living in the snow belt of Ohio.  But on the other hand I get not liking to drive in the stuff, so my compromise is, let's coexist, I'm OK if it doesn't snow a foot,  as long as  it doesn't rain, and the temp doesn't go above 35.

[/quote]

I can totally relate to the above comments. My pet peeves are...

....lamenting getting cold rain instead of a nice snowfall, and then hearing some bozo say "well- at least we don't have to shovel it!" Sooooo funny.

....people who complain about the north b/c it's "too cold" to do anything outside for 3 months of the year* ...then expressing their eagerness to move somewhere it's too HOT to do anything outdoors for 3 months out of the year.

*except it's not, thanks to the revolutionary concept of "clothing".
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: AlexMar on January 28, 2019, 06:04:16 PM
We got a good bunch of snow this weekend. Good for the skiing circumstances close to home.
Unfortunately I will be away from home for the next 2 weekends. But maybe we can ski on some weekday evening. Now that the snow conditions are good, it is tempting to do so.

I take it you are in Norway?  We go every year to Hemsedal.  Norwegian kroner is so weak that the costs are a fraction of going to a great spot in the States.  Our Danish family comes up and we get a ski in/out cabin with 4 bedrooms, sauna, etc... it's cheaper than a hotel in Tahoe and we split it 10+ ways.  Ski right out the door.  Plus the kids can play in the snow.  We bring all of our own food, too.  Deals on lift tickets and rentals and we are skiing for barely 20% - 25% of what it costs us to go to Tahoe - and we need to go see family yearly anyways... 2 birds.  Plus the direct flights on Norwegian air is cheaper than domestic flights in the States!  Even the hotel in Oslo we stay at, right in downtown, is incredibly affordable.

So for us, skiing can be very affordable and I'd consider this the mustachian way of doing it... at least for our family.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on January 28, 2019, 10:32:18 PM
We got a good bunch of snow this weekend. Good for the skiing circumstances close to home.
Unfortunately I will be away from home for the next 2 weekends. But maybe we can ski on some weekday evening. Now that the snow conditions are good, it is tempting to do so.

I take it you are in Norway?  We go every year to Hemsedal.  Norwegian kroner is so weak that the costs are a fraction of going to a great spot in the States.  Our Danish family comes up and we get a ski in/out cabin with 4 bedrooms, sauna, etc... it's cheaper than a hotel in Tahoe and we split it 10+ ways.  Ski right out the door.  Plus the kids can play in the snow.  We bring all of our own food, too.  Deals on lift tickets and rentals and we are skiing for barely 20% - 25% of what it costs us to go to Tahoe - and we need to go see family yearly anyways... 2 birds.  Plus the direct flights on Norwegian air is cheaper than domestic flights in the States!  Even the hotel in Oslo we stay at, right in downtown, is incredibly affordable.

So for us, skiing can be very affordable and I'd consider this the mustachian way of doing it... at least for our family.

Good for you. It is not often that Norway is described as a good economic deal.

But you are right. We used to pay 6,5 Norwegian crowns for a dollar for many years and today we pay 8. Euros used to cost 8 crowns and are now around 10.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: AlexMar on January 29, 2019, 05:47:48 AM
We got a good bunch of snow this weekend. Good for the skiing circumstances close to home.
Unfortunately I will be away from home for the next 2 weekends. But maybe we can ski on some weekday evening. Now that the snow conditions are good, it is tempting to do so.

I take it you are in Norway?  We go every year to Hemsedal.  Norwegian kroner is so weak that the costs are a fraction of going to a great spot in the States.  Our Danish family comes up and we get a ski in/out cabin with 4 bedrooms, sauna, etc... it's cheaper than a hotel in Tahoe and we split it 10+ ways.  Ski right out the door.  Plus the kids can play in the snow.  We bring all of our own food, too.  Deals on lift tickets and rentals and we are skiing for barely 20% - 25% of what it costs us to go to Tahoe - and we need to go see family yearly anyways... 2 birds.  Plus the direct flights on Norwegian air is cheaper than domestic flights in the States!  Even the hotel in Oslo we stay at, right in downtown, is incredibly affordable.

So for us, skiing can be very affordable and I'd consider this the mustachian way of doing it... at least for our family.

Good for you. It is not often that Norway is described as a good economic deal.

But you are right. We used to pay 6,5 Norwegian crowns for a dollar for many years and today we pay 8. Euros used to cost 8 crowns and are now around 10.

All my Danish family complains about how expensive Norway is.  That's incredibly expensive.  Stories about how the grocery stores have a knife next to cucumbers so you can cut off just what you need (whether that's true or not I have no idea).  But for us, the conversion makes it very, very inexpensive right now.  I'd have to check, but lift tickets end up being like $30 as opposed to $120 in the States.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on January 29, 2019, 06:16:24 AM
We got a good bunch of snow this weekend. Good for the skiing circumstances close to home.
Unfortunately I will be away from home for the next 2 weekends. But maybe we can ski on some weekday evening. Now that the snow conditions are good, it is tempting to do so.

I take it you are in Norway?  We go every year to Hemsedal.  Norwegian kroner is so weak that the costs are a fraction of going to a great spot in the States.  Our Danish family comes up and we get a ski in/out cabin with 4 bedrooms, sauna, etc... it's cheaper than a hotel in Tahoe and we split it 10+ ways.  Ski right out the door.  Plus the kids can play in the snow.  We bring all of our own food, too.  Deals on lift tickets and rentals and we are skiing for barely 20% - 25% of what it costs us to go to Tahoe - and we need to go see family yearly anyways... 2 birds.  Plus the direct flights on Norwegian air is cheaper than domestic flights in the States!  Even the hotel in Oslo we stay at, right in downtown, is incredibly affordable.

So for us, skiing can be very affordable and I'd consider this the mustachian way of doing it... at least for our family.

Good for you. It is not often that Norway is described as a good economic deal.

But you are right. We used to pay 6,5 Norwegian crowns for a dollar for many years and today we pay 8. Euros used to cost 8 crowns and are now around 10.

All my Danish family complains about how expensive Norway is.  That's incredibly expensive.  Stories about how the grocery stores have a knife next to cucumbers so you can cut off just what you need (whether that's true or not I have no idea).  But for us, the conversion makes it very, very inexpensive right now.  I'd have to check, but lift tickets end up being like $30 as opposed to $120 in the States.

In the past (1970-ies) they used to sell half cucumbers, as I have heard from older relatives. Now grocery stores look like the ones in other countries such as the Netherlands and Germany. Only melons are often still sold in halves. You are not supposed to cut up the vegetables before you buy them.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: flipboard on January 29, 2019, 10:37:32 AM
I'm doing a fair amount of XC skiing... quite cheap actually, comparatively speaking:
- Getting to the trails: free because I already need a public transport pass* to get to work, and on average 1hr to most trails (tons of them).
- Skis: had these for 10 years already, so on average 30 USD equivlalent per year so far, trending down (although I have the permanent temptation of getting skating skis - I'm guessing my current skis will wear out or break eventually at which point that might be justified).
- Pass: approx 140 USD equivalent per year. I guess that's the biggest expense.

* I could avoid paying for this pass by living closer to work, but I like where I live, and housing closer to work gets more expensive. Plus commute time is regularly used as work time for me. And of course, no car needed which is probably the bigger saving.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: ice_beard on January 29, 2019, 10:57:06 AM

- Skis: had these for 10 years already, so on average 30 USD equivlalent per year so far, trending down (although I have the permanent temptation of getting skating skis

Get some skate skis.  It's a game changer for Nordic skiing.  It will take your fitness level to a whole new level and to be quite frank, is way more fun that striding in the set tracks.  It can be difficult at the start and I'd recommend some lessons or at least youtubing/reading about it before you give it a go because it's entirely different than classic.  It can be frustrating too in the beginning because it is so physically demanding, you have to stick with it, but the payoff is immense.  You can ski 20k fast and it's just so much fun.  If you've got consistent, reasonably well groomed snow and can go regularly, I'd absolutely recommend it. 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: 35andFI on January 29, 2019, 11:06:50 AM
I'll join in. I'm going this weekend to a local (1.5 hr drive each way) mountain with a group of friends.

Everyone is going to pack in my car and split gas (no tolls).
Normally I look at all car related expenses but don't want to charge my friends based on this.
Total will come out to less than $5 per person to get to the mountain.

I got a 3 pass in the summer for ~$80 so my lift ticket for this trip is ~$26.67.

I am using a board that was given to me by an old friend back in high school or college, Burton bindings that I got on sale > 10 years ago for cheap, and boots that I got a few years back for somewhere around $130-$160.

The jacket and pants that I am using were given to me as a present years ago as well.
I did lose my goggles and ended up having to buy a pair of Oakleys at the mountain (ouch) for a good chunk of change a few years ago.
Also had to replace my favorite Burton gloves that I lost. Bought a cheap pair from Amazon for $20 that had good reviews. We'll see how those are...

Not including the price that I paid years ago for the gear (wasn't much), my all in cost for the trip (including food that I'll bring) will be less than $40.

Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: mm1970 on January 29, 2019, 11:20:20 AM
This is the thread that makes me glad I don't ski!  My spouse grew up skiing in the northeast, joined the HS ski club.

I went twice with him.  Once in PA in the early 1990s.  Yeah, I fell a lot.  I mean, 1/2 day of lessons, 1/2 day of falling, I'm done.  Once in the late 1990s (Mammoth Mountain, we'd moved to CA by then).  Half day lessons, a single run "Sesame street" - the runs are a lot longer around here!  Then I was done.  We also did a 1/2 day cross country skiing.

So, I'm more of a sledder at heart, which is what I grew up doing in the Northeast. 

We went to Big Bear one weekend - husband went skiing, 4 yo and I did some sledding.  We went to Yosemite one year - I was pregnant, so hubby went skiing, the kid (6 yo) took a 1/2 day lesson then spent a 1/2 day tubing, while I watched and hauled the tube to the top of the run.  We went to June Lake one year (kids 11 and 5), and opted out of skiing even though it wasn't too busy.  Our cabin had sleds you could borrow and sent us off to a public area where we could sled for free.

At this point, we go find snow every couple of years, and hubby maybe skis every 5 years or so.  He always rents gear because his is old as shit (as in the 1980s).

I have great friends who fly all over for skiing.  And some who go at least 1-2x a year.  Family of 5 with rentals, lessons, lift tickets, the drive to Utah or Mammoth or Yosemite.  Ugh it's expensive.

I know folks who can make it cheaper with annual lift tickets - esp if they live close by.  We've got none of that. 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: jeninco on January 29, 2019, 03:01:15 PM

- Skis: had these for 10 years already, so on average 30 USD equivlalent per year so far, trending down (although I have the permanent temptation of getting skating skis

Get some skate skis.  It's a game changer for Nordic skiing.  It will take your fitness level to a whole new level and to be quite frank, is way more fun that striding in the set tracks.  It can be difficult at the start and I'd recommend some lessons or at least youtubing/reading about it before you give it a go because it's entirely different than classic.  It can be frustrating too in the beginning because it is so physically demanding, you have to stick with it, but the payoff is immense.  You can ski 20k fast and it's just so much fun.  If you've got consistent, reasonably well groomed snow and can go regularly, I'd absolutely recommend it.

You can (probably) get used skate gear at used equipment stores in places where people nordic ski (I just picked up a set here in Hippistan), last year's rental fleet at the end of the season at rental places, or ski swaps.

I agree: if you have inexpensive access to groomed trails, whipping through the woods on skate skis is a blast. (Um, take lessons to start, or go with someone who has an idea of what they're doing.)
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on January 30, 2019, 02:09:31 AM

- Skis: had these for 10 years already, so on average 30 USD equivlalent per year so far, trending down (although I have the permanent temptation of getting skating skis

Get some skate skis.  It's a game changer for Nordic skiing.  It will take your fitness level to a whole new level and to be quite frank, is way more fun that striding in the set tracks.  It can be difficult at the start and I'd recommend some lessons or at least youtubing/reading about it before you give it a go because it's entirely different than classic.  It can be frustrating too in the beginning because it is so physically demanding, you have to stick with it, but the payoff is immense.  You can ski 20k fast and it's just so much fun.  If you've got consistent, reasonably well groomed snow and can go regularly, I'd absolutely recommend it.

You can (probably) get used skate gear at used equipment stores in places where people nordic ski (I just picked up a set here in Hippistan), last year's rental fleet at the end of the season at rental places, or ski swaps.

I agree: if you have inexpensive access to groomed trails, whipping through the woods on skate skis is a blast. (Um, take lessons to start, or go with someone who has an idea of what they're doing.)

My husband grew up as a speed skater, on ice. So when we moved to Norway, he quickly picked up skating on skis and he has dedicated skating skis, shoes and poles. But, even though we have a lot of regularly prepared trails where we live, the trails are often not that wide. My DH is very tall and has long skis and he needs a wide trail. So most of the time when he wants to skate, he used his normal skis with combi shoes, waxes only the inner or outer part or his skis and skates whenever he is in a wide trail. To get there he needs to pass narrower trails, where he uses classic ski technique.

Another option to skate is in the mountains in april. When the sun is strong at day time, while the nights are still cold, the top layer of the snow will get crusty and can carry you on narrow skis. If there then falls a thin layer of snow on top of that crust, it is perfect for skating, which DH often demonstrates by skating fast away from me, who cannot skate.

We love to use combi shoes on classical CC skis all the time. They give good support to the ankles, which gives you good control in going downhill.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 30, 2019, 06:39:40 AM


Get some skate skis.  It's a game changer for Nordic skiing.  It will take your fitness level to a whole new level and to be quite frank, is way more fun that striding in the set tracks.  It can be difficult at the start and I'd recommend some lessons or at least youtubing/reading about it before you give it a go because it's entirely different than classic.  It can be frustrating too in the beginning because it is so physically demanding, you have to stick with it, but the payoff is immense.  You can ski 20k fast and it's just so much fun.  If you've got consistent, reasonably well groomed snow and can go regularly, I'd absolutely recommend it.

I still take a pretty defeatist attitude towards skate.  There's only so much you can take of little old ladies absolutely flying past you before you say FINE I GIVE IN. 

I enjoy a quiet shuffle in the woods way more than skate, but you can't deny the fitness benefits of skate. If I have barely an hour to get a quick ski in, skate all the way. 

And yeah, definitely take lessons.  There's a lot of subtleties to the technique in using your body mass to keep momentum and get more glide. It really helps to have somebody to critique your technique. 

But there is one thing that skate absolutely rules for. When we get a solid sun crust in the spring, you can just get absolutely flying on it and ski anywhere. Across the street from my house:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExU4BS834rw
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Daisy on January 30, 2019, 09:37:52 PM
Perhaps someone should start an MMM ski meetup. Perhaps it could be me after I return home from my current ski trip.

I will be skiing in the Salt Lake City area using my IKON pass in late March/early April. Lots of good mountains there on the IKON pass.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on January 31, 2019, 04:17:08 AM
Perhaps someone should start an MMM ski meetup. Perhaps it could be me after I return home from my current ski trip.

I will be skiing in the Salt Lake City area using my IKON pass in late March/early April. Lots of good mountains there on the IKON pass.

I am having a CC ski and winter camping meetup with some new people at and around our cabin this (4-day) weekend. It will be a Mustachian event, although these other people don't call themselves that.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Trifele on January 31, 2019, 04:39:23 AM
Perhaps someone should start an MMM ski meetup. Perhaps it could be me after I return home from my current ski trip.

I will be skiing in the Salt Lake City area using my IKON pass in late March/early April. Lots of good mountains there on the IKON pass.

I am having a CC ski and winter camping meetup with some new people at and around our cabin this (4-day) weekend. It will be a Mustachian event, although these other people don't call themselves that.

That sounds so fun Linda -- have a great time!
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 31, 2019, 06:37:40 AM
I GOT PAID TO SKI!

It seems the new managers at my employer are a little more sensitive to the weather than the previous regime.  Blowing snow, lows around 0F and -30F to -40F windchills are apparently enough to call a day off with pay. 

Nonetheless, the closest online thermometer to m favorite ski hill was reporting 3F at 8AM, I'm going skiing!  Technically, they're closed on weekdays, but I didn't want to sit on a lift anyway. Got a fire going in the warming hut and managed a few laps.   

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4853/39968614753_1bf69d611b_z.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4904/39968611613_bb30ffe210_z.jpg)

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7893/46208318314_9075328d25_z.jpg)

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7838/46932976771_151cca34ae_z.jpg)

Another day off today with bluebird skies, but the thermometer is reporting -8F, hopefully it'll warm up some.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Poundwise on January 31, 2019, 07:15:51 AM
I found this really cool product that lets you groom your own trails.  My in-laws own 15 acres of woods on a slope and if I could get people interested I bet we could put together a nice little trail or two, if we plan ahead in the summer and fall.

https://www.mytrailgroomer.com/
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on January 31, 2019, 07:26:13 AM
My neighbor grooms about 6K on his 40 acres with an old snowmobile he bought for maybe a hundred bucks and a grooming rig he put together out of scrap lumber. 

Those human powered groomers are pretty funny. You must really have to hate breaking trail to put that amount of effort in. 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Poundwise on January 31, 2019, 07:54:45 AM
Those human powered groomers are pretty funny. You must really have to hate breaking trail to put that amount of effort in.

I would do it if it would get the kids off their screens and onto the trail! Think of the children...
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Dr Kidstache on January 31, 2019, 01:11:26 PM
Perhaps someone should start an MMM ski meetup. Perhaps it could be me after I return home from my current ski trip.

I will be skiing in the Salt Lake City area using my IKON pass in late March/early April. Lots of good mountains there on the IKON pass.

Ooooh, yes. This.
There's also great nordic skiing and snowshoeing around the SLC area. Future meetup for all snow lovers?

@Askel  I live in a winter wonderland and yet your posts still make me want to move wherever you are ;-)
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on February 01, 2019, 06:34:15 PM
This is really cool.  I love skiing and I've done a few hut trips but never anything like what you're describing.  Are you basically packing everything in on a big sled?  I'm interested in hearing more about your trips and setup/kit if you feel like sharing.  From my perspective, skiing and biking are two things I'm passionate about and give myself permission to spend money on within reason.  Two things about skiing I've always found nuts are the real estate prices in ski towns and the vehicles have for "the lifestyle".  No, I don't think you need a 50k, 15 mpg suv with a $1,000 roof rack+box. A prius with snow tires can work fine.  I've found that reasonably priced food options can be found in town as long as you aren't eating on the slopes.  Also, happy hour specials often make beer cheaper up there vs where I live. Go figure.   

Gear:  I buy good stuff on sale and keep it until it wears out.  I'm still skiing with a north face shell that's almost 20 years old and a pair of arctryx pants purchased in 2005.  Good gear amortized over it's lifecycle isn't too expensive.  Skis can be had very inexpensively, especially when purchased in the off-season.

Sorry, missed this earlier. Me and my buddies have spent all manner dinking around trying to improvise a winter camping setup on the cheap.  Most of us eventually come around to this: Somebody in northern MN/WI probably makes exactly what you need. It won't be cheap, but it'll be well thought out and do the job. 

Tent is an 8x10 snowtrekker: https://www.snowtrekkertents.com/ Yes, crazy expensive and worth every penny. 
After years of dinking around with cobbled together toboggans, I finally just broke down and bought a setup from https://www.skipulk.com/

The vast majority of my trips to date have all been within a mile of the car, so I can usually get everything in no matter how inefficient my mode of travel.  The weekend after next, I'll be doing a shakedown of a loaded trip in: bringing everything I need to get by for 3 nights in one trip.     

Basically, beyond the tent, I just need a zero degree bag, a couple cheap foam sleeping pads and whatever food/clothes I think I might need. Should all fit in the sled. 

Of course, I'll be camping on the backside of the ski hill, so after I get the pulk up the hill, I'll be able to smuggle the luxuries in on the chairlift. You know- gas lantern, beers, unsmushed hot dog buns.   

If all goes well, I'm hoping to attempt a multiday trip this winter towing the pulk behind my fatbike.   

On the subject of meetups, if there's any pinheads in the midwest that want to join me, my camping trip will be part of a really fun event in northern michigan:  https://www.facebook.com/Midwest-Telefest-187042302644/
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on February 02, 2019, 10:25:52 AM
My neighbor grooms about 6K on his 40 acres with an old snowmobile he bought for maybe a hundred bucks and a grooming rig he put together out of scrap lumber. 

Those human powered groomers are pretty funny. You must really have to hate breaking trail to put that amount of effort in.

Instead of human powered, you should have dog powered, and a dog. Then you send send it ahead of you.
Good idea to make your own trail. We used to have a neighbour with a tractor who hang a trail maker behind the tractor. But he forgot to put weight on it. That trail was very bad, as you fell through all the time.

We have heard that we have gotten 50 cms of snow at home. We are currently not home, but still CC skiing at low temperatures. Next weekend I will spend the weekend inside a university, learning about mushrooms. I will try to go skiing in the afternoon out of work. We have a trail very close to work and the days are growing longer. I think I could ski for an hour in good light.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Poundwise on February 02, 2019, 11:46:03 AM
Wonder if we could rig a combination pulk and trail groomer?  Give a little kid a ride in a sled and groom a trail at the same time!
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on February 05, 2019, 01:03:00 AM
Wonder if we could rig a combination pulk and trail groomer?  Give a little kid a ride in a sled and groom a trail at the same time!

Yes, maybe. THis is a way you can add quite some weight to the pulh. You will still have to add weight to the trail groomer as well. But I am afraid it might swing a lot while you are skiing. More connections mean more options for sledges to swing sideways. But maybe this is solved by putting in enough weight in both.

I learned on Saturday that having a dog pulling a pulk is not as controlled as a person pulling the pulk. Dogs don't take it easy when the pulk is in a difficult part. We collected water in a large water tank in a plastic, slippery pulk.

Yesterday afternoon we drove home from our cabin. We left a bit early, but found out that the weather was too nice to only drive the car. We didn't have skis in the car, but made a trip on snowshoes on a snow scooter trail. We had a really nice view of the good weather, the mountains and the dramatic cloud formations.

When home, we found out that exactly where our house is, there was a lot of snow, about 50cms fresh snow. DH used the snow blower to clear the parking place. I shoveled the path to the front door. A lot of work, but the snow was hard needed for the CC skiing conditions.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Jonno1 on February 05, 2019, 08:56:46 PM
The mustachian way is backcountry skiing.  Here on Mt Shasta once you've got your gear it is essentially free.  It has risk but is incredibly beautiful pastime.  I connect to other skiers through a facebook group and we share space all over the state to keep costs down.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on February 06, 2019, 12:37:17 AM
@Jonno1 I hope you investigate for risk of avalanches and carry searching equipment.

Here in Norway in the North, there is a city called Tromsø, which is very popular for skiing off piste. I heard yesterday that in that area more people die from mountain-related winter accidents than from traffic. Often foreign tourists get caught in avalanches, because they take bigger risks.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Jonno1 on February 06, 2019, 01:22:45 PM
@Linda_Norway Yes, thanks.  Good to mention.  I've been going in the backcountry for a while and am well trained (Avy 1) and very conservative and carry a beacon shovel and probe as do my ski partners.  We have an excellent avalanche forecasting center her in town and with a maritime snowpack it is generally very stable (very rare that you see a persistent weak layer in the snowpack unlike Colorado).  It's really good except potentially during and immediately after storms and during intense warming spells where you can choose safer terrain or just go for a hike instead.   The spring corn skiing is the best with virtually zero avalanche danger in the spring.  10000 people attempt the climb, some ski off the top. So far so good. :)
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on February 06, 2019, 07:34:12 PM
So I'm a midwest skier and have zero real experience with avalanches, but my gut feeling is that skiing in avalanche terrain is sort of like riding a motorcycle. Sure, lots of people die doing it, but there just a few simple things you can do to massively mitigate the risk of such down to near zero. 

Cue that time we had enough interest locally to hold an Avy 1 course and it made the front page of the paper (check out that 4" deep snow pit! :D ):

(https://www.feep.org/gallery/var/resizes/james/random/frontpage_001.jpg?m=1395349879)
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: mountain mustache on February 06, 2019, 08:15:17 PM
another way to save money while still getting to ski as much as you want is to uphill at resorts. In CO where I live, as a poster above mentioned, the snowpack is super unstable and honestly until late Spring I don't really think backcountry skiing is worth the risk. I uphill at our local resort instead during the winter, it's $20 for the season, which is totally worth it to ski in safe terrain. I get 2-3k of climbing in, enjoy skiing freshly groomed, empty runs before the mountain opens, and save about $400 from a regular lift ticket.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Jonno1 on February 06, 2019, 10:14:48 PM
Yes Askel, like that.  You can ski less than 30 degree slopes which are still fun all the time and never see an avalanche.  Lot's of things have risk, but  really great friendships are formed in the mountains.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: jeninco on February 07, 2019, 03:50:35 PM
Yes Askel, like that.  You can ski less than 30 degree slopes which are still fun all the time and never see an avalanche.  Lot's of things have risk, but  really great friendships are formed in the mountains.

We've had a couple of people caught in avalanches in CO this year, who thought they were on 30 degree or less slopes... (Most turned out to be around 35 degrees, which is kind of the "sweet spot" for maximal avalanche danger.)

We had enough snow in hippistan yesterday that the nordic club groomed a track in a local park.  Cheap skiing is taking the skating gear I just bought (used, cheap) over to the local park and racing around in circles for a bit. Too bad it was a balmy zero degrees F, and I couldn't get my hands to stay warm despite being in rather heavy downhill skiing gloves!
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on February 08, 2019, 12:28:37 AM
Yes Askel, like that.  You can ski less than 30 degree slopes which are still fun all the time and never see an avalanche.  Lot's of things have risk, but  really great friendships are formed in the mountains.

We've had a couple of people caught in avalanches in CO this year, who thought they were on 30 degree or less slopes... (Most turned out to be around 35 degrees, which is kind of the "sweet spot" for maximal avalanche danger.)

We had enough snow in hippistan yesterday that the nordic club groomed a track in a local park.  Cheap skiing is taking the skating gear I just bought (used, cheap) over to the local park and racing around in circles for a bit. Too bad it was a balmy zero degrees F, and I couldn't get my hands to stay warm despite being in rather heavy downhill skiing gloves!

We learn that if you take a CC ski pole and keep it straight up, and then take the other pole and hold it to the middle of that pole in a 90 degree angle, and hold this against the snow, you make a 30% angle. If the slope is steeper than that, stay away from it.

https://www.yr.no/artikkel/slik-sjekker-du-skredfaren-1.12215728

We have a cabin in a place where it often snows in really cold temperatures. Sometimes the snow make avalanche-like sounds, those deep thuds. And this can happen on slopes < 30 degrees and even on flat surface. It sounds scary having these noises around you.

DH always assures me that a 30% angle is so steep that I wouldn't dare to ski it down anyway (I am not good at downhill skiing).
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on February 08, 2019, 02:25:05 AM
Today I am in the office, because I changed my normal Friday off for Monday this week. Now the sun has broken through. It is 0 degrees C and there is about 70 cms snow. I brought sports clothes and skis and intend to leave work really early and ski on my way home, while the weather is still good. Tonight it will start to rain :-( and continue to do so the whole weekend. I am going to a symposium both Saturday and Sunday and will be sitting inside both days.

DH cleaned our best CC skis last night, as there is now enough snow to use the good skis. He found there was straw sitting in the sticky wax. We don't remember what we did last year that caused straw to be there...

This is my main motivation to FIRE: not have to spend the day inside an office, if is one of those seldom sunny winter days with perfect snow conditions.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Daisy on February 18, 2019, 09:56:46 PM
Perhaps someone should start an MMM ski meetup. Perhaps it could be me after I return home from my current ski trip.

I will be skiing in the Salt Lake City area using my IKON pass in late March/early April. Lots of good mountains there on the IKON pass.

Ooooh, yes. This.
There's also great nordic skiing and snowshoeing around the SLC area. Future meetup for all snow lovers?

@Askel  I live in a winter wonderland and yet your posts still make me want to move wherever you are ;-)

So Dr Kidstache and I are in for a ski meetup in Salt Lake City at the end of March.

I'd like to ski all of the mountains on the IKON pass: Deer Valley, Solitude, Brighton, Alta/Snowbird.

We could possibly rent a house together to pool costs in the Cottonwood Heights area to share while skiing the Solitude, Brighton, and Alta/Snowbird mountains.

Who's in?
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: big_slacker on February 19, 2019, 06:31:22 AM
Just got back from a trip to CO. Having been a pass holder for years I hadn't bought an actual lift ticket in forever. OMG, Vail is over $200 for a 1 day. :-0

What I did to defray costs:

Points for airline tickets.

Brought my own gear, rentals are $$ and they suck too. :D

Brought our own beer. Pre-ride warm up beers in the parking lot, take a couple in the backpack and enjoy during the day.

Brought lunches/snacks in the pack. Eat breakfast in the parking lot, sandwiches in the backpack.

Night skiing. First day was a warmup at keystone, cheaper tickets and really excellent, well lit, LONG runs.

Buddy tickets! My friend had the Epic pass so the ridiculous ticket price was less. But still ridiculous. At winter park we stood in the main drag and asked passholders to use their buddy tickets. We found someone, paid her $20 and saved a boatload. 

Lodging and food, I stayed with my friend. If you don't have a friend within an hour of a kajillion epic resorts I'd say go with friends and split the cost of an AirBnB. You'd have to run the numbers to see if staying in a village at a resort was cheaper than renting somewhere within driving distance and also renting a car.  Food, cook your own.

It wasn't free, but I'm sure I paid 1/2 or less what a lot of people were spending on similar trips. I had sticker shock at the costs of lift tickets, foods, drinks, etc. It's gotten insane. It was also EPIC riding. Winter park Eagle Wind area especially was magic. Untouched pow in the trees, even after lunch we were finding powder caches.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: jeninco on February 19, 2019, 09:05:06 AM
similar to Big_slacker, we just got back from a long weekend of skiing. Three powder days in a row!

We live on the front range of Colorado, so we drove and took our own gear.

This time, we were hunting for snow (rather than big mountains, necessarily), so we skied at smaller (and much less expensive -- about $70/day/person) areas.  We also did some within-area hiking (it's a bad year for avalanches, and it's February -- I consider it money well spent to have someone else to avalanche control). Did I mention we kept finding powder?

We rented an Air B&B (which was  ... a weird layout, but had a working kitchen and a big enough table, so it was all good) and cooked all but one of our meals. (And the one we didn't cook? Meh. We should've cooked.)

We drive a van with a pop-up table inside, and got to the area early enough to park close in (another advantage of small areas) so we picnicked in the van (or the sun, one day) for lunch. We realized years ago that we could literally bring any food (including caviar, though we haven't yet done that) we wanted to a ski area and come out ahead over buying food there and settled on going to the in-town grocery store the night before and picking up 1-2 lbs of fried chicken tenders and having them for lunch with various other things. So the parents lounged in the van and set up lunch, the kids came in and ate (we also had thermoses of hot tea), and then we packed up and all went back to skiing.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: bognish on February 19, 2019, 09:15:32 AM
Daisy, let me know if you are skiing Alta on a weekday and want to do a few laps with a local. I don't check in here very often anymore since I am either on a chair lift or catching up on chores, but I'm home sick today.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Daisy on February 19, 2019, 09:23:14 AM
Daisy, let me know if you are skiing Alta on a weekday and want to do a few laps with a local. I don't check in here very often anymore since I am either on a chair lift or catching up on chores, but I'm home sick today.

Sure sounds good. I will PM you.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on February 19, 2019, 10:57:10 AM
It looks like our winter is mostly over now. It took a long time before we finally had a thick pack of snow here around Oslo. I have been skiing one day on my newest skis, before that only on my old pair, because of stuff sticking through the snow.. Then it rained for a whole weekend. Last weekend it was quite icy in the trails and not really fun to ski. We only skied for two days, instead of three.. This weekend it will be springtime temperatures. We are considering to visit our cabin which is in one of the colderst areas in the country and has currently good snow.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: roboskier on March 01, 2019, 07:10:37 PM
The two things that have saved me a lot of money are volunteering to coach at a local race team, and usually refusing to pay for any new gear:

-The volunteer gig gets me a significantly reduced seasons pass and free tickets at the mountains we travel to for races. The obvious catch on this, is that I'm working a fair amount of the time (but happen to find this equally enjoyable to ripping around on my own).
-I almost never buy new gear (unless it's through some sort of sponsorship or deal with the team, or heavily discounted in spring). If you haven't been, check out your local ski swaps in the fall. At least where I am, it's not hard to get a solid pair of skis for ~$100 depending on what you're looking for. Yocals buy fancy pants stuff all the time then drop it off a year later when it goes unused.

I also carpool and do all my own tuning. When the race season gets going, I average 3 days a week (1 night, Saturday and Sunday). All in this season, I'm at $800. Certainly not cheap, but not going to break the bank account either... And more and more, I've become a big fan of the mom and pop type areas. Depending on how you buy, you can usually get cheap tickets when deals come up, you don't have to deal with lines, or finding a place to sit in the lodge, or parking or any other nonsense.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on March 02, 2019, 07:40:47 AM
Today there was a freshly prepared cc skiing trail. We drove towards the free parking place we tend to use. Turned out there was a children's ski competition on the other side if the road, which wouldn't have bothered us. But for the occasion, we were charged 10 dollars for parking!

Then we turned around and drove to the other end up the trail where we could park for free. We had really nice weather, quite warm. The trail was partly a bit icy. We used zero skis, which were partly good, partly as hopeless as other skis. But we did some 18 kms anyway.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Dropbear on March 03, 2019, 03:15:10 AM
Here in Australia it's still bloody hot, so I'm envious of those of you who are enjoying winter in the deep north!

Skiing is a big part of my FIRE plans too.

Since I was young I've been a member of a cooperative ski club.  Our club's ski lodge is inside the boundary of a ski resort, and has a popular link ski run running passing about 10m from our back door.  In winter, it's completely snowbound, so it's ski-in/ski-out, or otherwise catch a snowcat.  We usually try and stay with the same families each time, so it's very social, too.

Apparently in Australia we have the most marginal skiing conditions in the world.  You'd think that'd make it cheaper, but no, it's actually super expensive... Like most things are here.  Still, on the right day, the conditions are as good as anywhere!

Do any of you Europeans or North Americans have ski clubs with accommodation to help make for cheaper and more social snow trips?
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on March 03, 2019, 07:49:26 AM
Skiing is a big part of my FIRE plans too.

Do any of you Europeans or North Americans have ski clubs with accommodation to help make for cheaper and more social snow trips?

Nice to hear that Australians also like skiing. But we are half a year apart from each other.

About your question. We typically have cross country ski trails everwhere where people live and where there is snow. So we can sleep at home and drive for 15-30 minutes to a trail. There are also local, small alpine ski hills all over the place, as long as there is a hill available.

If we want to ski somewhere else, we need to book accommodation. Many people, like us, have a mountain cabin, so with guaranteed snow from November to May or so. At home, in the south of the country, we typically have snow from December to the end or March.
Mountain cabins can also be rented for all sorts of prices, depending on the location.

Ski clubs often ski locally. But if they travel somewhere else, they would typically book a large cabin for a good member price. But as said, mst members sleep at home most of the winter.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Dropbear on March 04, 2019, 03:25:45 AM
Skiing is a big part of my FIRE plans too.

Do any of you Europeans or North Americans have ski clubs with accommodation to help make for cheaper and more social snow trips?

Nice to hear that Australians also like skiing. But we are half a year apart from each other.

About your question. We typically have cross country ski trails everwhere where people live and where there is snow. So we can sleep at home and drive for 15-30 minutes to a trail. There are also local, small alpine ski hills all over the place, as long as there is a hill available.

If we want to ski somewhere else, we need to book accommodation. Many people, like us, have a mountain cabin, so with guaranteed snow from November to May or so. At home, in the south of the country, we typically have snow from December to the end or March.
Mountain cabins can also be rented for all sorts of prices, depending on the location.

Ski clubs often ski locally. But if they travel somewhere else, they would typically book a large cabin for a good member price. But as said, most members sleep at home most of the winter.


Men er norske barn virkelig født med ski redan på?

Good point about skiing locally, thanks, I hadn't considered it that way...  In Australia the snow is about 6 hours south of Sydney, or about 5 hours north of Melbourne.  Hence we have lots of ski clubs full of members who live far away from the "Snowy Mountains".

For ski accommodation, there seems to me a distinct affordability difference between what 'insiders' have access to verses the mass tourism market luxury places (both here and around the world).  At our lodge, for example, it's just a biggish house in the snow with comfortable bedrooms, shared bathrooms and living spaces, and our one luxury: a sauna.  We all bring our own sheets and towels, bring our own food to cook for ourselves, and share the cleaning when we move out.  Hotels charge at least double (and often a lot more), although they those guests wouldn't do-it-yourself like we do...
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on March 04, 2019, 04:21:04 AM
Men er norske barn virkelig født med ski redan på?

Nei, det gjort for vondt for moren.

Most children start skiing when they are 2 years old. Until that time, they are dragged along on ski trips in a pulk/children's sledge.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on March 07, 2019, 01:11:04 AM
After a couple of weeks with very warm springtime weather, we now have snow falling down very fast. I think it is slightly above zero Celsius.

I find it a little difficult to switch my mood from beginning springtime to back into winter. But I guess it is the normal way. You can't expect it to be spring permanently in the beginning March.

At Easter, we have the whole week before Easter off. This is the week that we traditionally go skiing at our mountain cabin, in warm, sunny weather. At least, the weather can vary enormously, as Easter can also be a month earlier.

This year Easter is extremely late, at the end of April. If there is enough snow and it is not completely rotten, we will go to our cabin and do a tenting trip on skis in that area for a couple of days (plan A). If there is only snow left in the highest mountains, we will do to a national park that is higher, a little further and do a tenting/ski trip there (plan B). If the snow if completely gone or completely rotten and there is no hope for a good ski trip, we might go on a canoeing trip in Sweden (plan C). We have done that before several time, in May. It is not so far driving (2 hours) and easy to organize for us, as we have our own canoe.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Dropbear on March 07, 2019, 03:20:03 AM
This year, by coincidence, we have the Easter long weekend running immediately before the ANZAC long weekend.  This means we can take 3 days of annual leave and get a total of 10 days away from work.  So I'm planning on making a trip to the mountains.  (Still way too warm for snow here though).

As to mustachian mountain adventures - another way to enjoy cheap skiing and snowboarding is to do it powered by kite.  It's super fun.  In Australia we have great terrain for it (flattish mountain tops), but our winds are often a bit too strong, and access into good kiting areas away from the ski resorts can be tricky.

I've heard Scandinavia is amazing for snow kiting, though.  Big open expanses of great quality snow, decent winds, and easy access from mountain huts or mountain roads...
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on March 07, 2019, 04:39:54 AM
I've heard Scandinavia is amazing for snow kiting, though.  Big open expanses of great quality snow, decent winds, and easy access from mountain huts or mountain roads...

Yes, I often see people snowkiting on Hardangervidda. This is a big mountain plateau with several tourist huts on and around it.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Hardangervidda+kiting&rlz=1C1GCEV_en&oq=Hardangervidda+kiting&aqs=chrome..69i57.5623j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on March 10, 2019, 06:05:51 AM
Nice CC skiing conditions today. Yesterday it snowed the whole day. Today it is sunny, but coldish. The tracks are very good and pink/violet wax did a very good job today. We started a bit late, 10:30 AM, and had to share the tracks with many other skiers. That is to be expected in this type of weather on a Sunday.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: 35andFI on March 10, 2019, 09:01:51 AM
I was racing a friend yesterday and caught a toe edge then flipped onto my stomach and slid into a tree head first.

I have a bump and a little cut on my head and pressure in my ear but I don’t think I got a concussion.

I wasn’t wearing a helmet and got very lucky.

Be careful out there everyone.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: HenryDavid on March 10, 2019, 01:46:05 PM
In “other non motorized winter sports” news:
SNOWSHOES.
Let me say that more quietly.
Snowshoes.
Go where you like,  cross frozen lakes, follow frozen streams. So quiet and beautiful. Even logged-over woods are nice in deep snow.
There’s no adrenalin factor. Also few injuries.
And . . .. .  Cheeeaaaap. Get ‘em used.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on March 11, 2019, 02:00:39 AM
In “other non motorized winter sports” news:
SNOWSHOES.
Let me say that more quietly.
Snowshoes.
Go where you like,  cross frozen lakes, follow frozen streams. So quiet and beautiful. Even logged-over woods are nice in deep snow.
There’s no adrenalin factor. Also few injuries.
And . . .. .  Cheeeaaaap. Get ‘em used.

We use these to walk from the car to our cabin, about 150 meters.

In deep snow, also snowshoes can make you sink away deeply.
We sometimes like to walk around on snowshoes a bit to follow animal trails near our cabin. And last time, the snow and the ski trails were very icy, and outside the snow did not carry. Then we walked on snowshoes up a mountain in a former ski trail.
But if it is flattish and you want to cover some distance, skis go so much faster. Uphill there is hardly any distance.

What snowshoes also can be good for, that is for tramping a flat tent place in the snow. If we go on a winter camping trip, with skis, we often bring snowshoes as well, to use around camp. Skis are long and impractical.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: clarkfan1979 on March 11, 2019, 03:05:40 AM
I buy the Keystone/A-Basin pass for $329 and typically get around 12-15 days/year. I think I spend another $170 in gas/year, so I'm all in for $500/year. It's not free, but I think it's cheaper than many other activities/hobbies. I have 3 snowboards that are 13-15 years old. I'm buying a new pair of boots for next season. They are 15 years old.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on March 11, 2019, 03:41:41 AM
In “other non motorized winter sports” news:
SNOWSHOES.
Let me say that more quietly.
Snowshoes.
Go where you like,  cross frozen lakes, follow frozen streams. So quiet and beautiful. Even logged-over woods are nice in deep snow.
There’s no adrenalin factor. Also few injuries.
And . . .. .  Cheeeaaaap. Get ‘em used.

Snowshoes are such a regular fixture in my life, I barely consider them as specialized outdoor gear anymore.  Heck, I even use them at work several times a year. This year we've had so much snow, it's literally impossible to get around without them. 

That said, firing up the coleman lantern and going for a nighttime snowshoe is one of my favorite things. 

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7880/46147482155_fbb785d418_c.jpg)
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Dropbear on March 11, 2019, 05:17:39 AM
My quiver of snowboards:

1 - A rockboard that cost $50 ex-hire, just to get me on the mountain.

2 - A 15+ year old carve board that I bought new (end of season special), and it provided wonderful service for years, but ended up being too stiff and heavy...

3 - A kite-specific board that was given to me by a very generous kiter.

4 - A 5+ year old super-playful park board that I bought new (end of season special again) and only expected to use for learning freestyle stuff, but turns out to be almost perfect for absolutely everything!  This board carves better than my carve board!

Now I'm wanting to buy a pair of skis - on the condition that they can go everywhere and do everything.

I think I'll get some playful park skis!
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: dude on March 11, 2019, 07:42:09 AM
Just got back last Tues morning from 9 days in Utah, where it snowed all 4 days I was in the backcountry (and we got some great resort days too). It was so good, and they just got another 38" the past 4-5 days (BCC) that I said "fuck it" and bought a last-minute ticket to go back later this week. Can't wait. I'd post the video from the backcountry excursion but it would vitiate my anonymity, so I'll have to withhold it.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: HenryDavid on March 11, 2019, 08:57:52 AM
In “other non motorized winter sports” news:
SNOWSHOES.
Let me say that more quietly:
Snowshoes.
Go where you like,  cross frozen lakes, follow frozen streams. So quiet and beautiful. Even logged-over woods are nice in deep snow.
There’s no adrenalin factor. Also few injuries.
And . . .. .  Cheeeaaaap. Get ‘em used.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: jeninco on March 11, 2019, 01:25:55 PM
Just got back last Tues morning from 9 days in Utah, where it snowed all 4 days I was in the backcountry (and we got some great resort days too). It was so good, and they just got another 38" the past 4-5 days (BCC) that I said "fuck it" and bought a last-minute ticket to go back later this week. Can't wait. I'd post the video from the backcountry excursion but it would vitiate my anonymity, so I'll have to withhold it.

Glad to hear it was fun, and that the snow was great!

We're headed out at the end of the month for the middle of spring break week -- the expensive part is driving out there (about 8 hours): we're renting a VRBO in east SLC where we'll do most of our own cooking. And lift tickets to Snowbird were surprisingly cheap (ish, @$74/day) We have friends along the way, so we may stop and ski with them either on the way our or on the way back. I wish we could go for longer, but it's soccer season, so the kids have games the weekend before and the weekend after.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: dude on March 12, 2019, 07:46:13 AM
Just got back last Tues morning from 9 days in Utah, where it snowed all 4 days I was in the backcountry (and we got some great resort days too). It was so good, and they just got another 38" the past 4-5 days (BCC) that I said "fuck it" and bought a last-minute ticket to go back later this week. Can't wait. I'd post the video from the backcountry excursion but it would vitiate my anonymity, so I'll have to withhold it.

Glad to hear it was fun, and that the snow was great!

We're headed out at the end of the month for the middle of spring break week -- the expensive part is driving out there (about 8 hours): we're renting a VRBO in east SLC where we'll do most of our own cooking. And lift tickets to Snowbird were surprisingly cheap (ish, @$74/day) We have friends along the way, so we may stop and ski with them either on the way our or on the way back. I wish we could go for longer, but it's soccer season, so the kids have games the weekend before and the weekend after.

jeninco (assuming you're in CO as your name implies), I'll be headed out to CO in early April for a week. Annual trip to a friend's place at Breck. I have an Epic Pass, so no need to purchase lift tix for Breck, Vail, Keystone, A-Basin. Enjoy Utahhhhhhhh!
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: dude on March 12, 2019, 07:47:51 AM
P.S. -- check out Liftopia deals for Sundance. Usually around $45. And I love that place. Very cool, with probably my favorite après-ski bar anywhere (the Owl Bar).
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: jeninco on March 12, 2019, 04:47:04 PM
Just got back last Tues morning from 9 days in Utah, where it snowed all 4 days I was in the backcountry (and we got some great resort days too). It was so good, and they just got another 38" the past 4-5 days (BCC) that I said "fuck it" and bought a last-minute ticket to go back later this week. Can't wait. I'd post the video from the backcountry excursion but it would vitiate my anonymity, so I'll have to withhold it.

Glad to hear it was fun, and that the snow was great!

We're headed out at the end of the month for the middle of spring break week -- the expensive part is driving out there (about 8 hours): we're renting a VRBO in east SLC where we'll do most of our own cooking. And lift tickets to Snowbird were surprisingly cheap (ish, @$74/day) We have friends along the way, so we may stop and ski with them either on the way our or on the way back. I wish we could go for longer, but it's soccer season, so the kids have games the weekend before and the weekend after.

jeninco (assuming you're in CO as your name implies), I'll be headed out to CO in early April for a week. Annual trip to a friend's place at Breck. I have an Epic Pass, so no need to purchase lift tix for Breck, Vail, Keystone, A-Basin. Enjoy Utahhhhhhhh!

Cool! The snow at A-Basin and Breck should still be lovely: Breck had to close down the upper mountain last week for reasons of too much snow (I heard they had an in-bounds avalanche).  I also recommend Loveland, but if you have an Epic Pass, they're not on it. (Spring skiing is about $50/day or less there.)
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: dude on March 13, 2019, 06:07:46 AM
I *heart* Loveland!
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Daisy on March 13, 2019, 11:11:40 AM
Just got back last Tues morning from 9 days in Utah, where it snowed all 4 days I was in the backcountry (and we got some great resort days too). It was so good, and they just got another 38" the past 4-5 days (BCC) that I said "fuck it" and bought a last-minute ticket to go back later this week. Can't wait. I'd post the video from the backcountry excursion but it would vitiate my anonymity, so I'll have to withhold it.

Glad to hear it was fun, and that the snow was great!

We're headed out at the end of the month for the middle of spring break week -- the expensive part is driving out there (about 8 hours): we're renting a VRBO in east SLC where we'll do most of our own cooking. And lift tickets to Snowbird were surprisingly cheap (ish, @$74/day) We have friends along the way, so we may stop and ski with them either on the way our or on the way back. I wish we could go for longer, but it's soccer season, so the kids have games the weekend before and the weekend after.

I'll be heading to Utah soon myself. Good to hear the snow is good.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: dude on March 13, 2019, 11:14:05 AM
16-24" more today through tonight.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: bognish on March 13, 2019, 05:32:24 PM
12" at our house in the last 12 hours. Hoping I am not too sore tomorrow cause its going to be good up the street at Alta. Day 44 for me this season and counting. Right now the family season pass is costing us about $31 per person per day. Should be under $25 by the end of the season.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: waltworks on March 13, 2019, 06:11:26 PM
We're at something like 330" for the season here in Park City.

Skiing can be pretty cheap, really. I probably have 60 pairs of skis in the basement and I'm positive I haven't made it to $1000 in total spending. People dump perfectly good stuff with a bad binding, or just because they want this year's gear, and you can pretty much have it for free.

If you know how to tune and wax skis (ah, my wasted youth) it gets even easier. Lots of people ditch skis (literally) when they get dried out and slow and all they really need is a tune and wax.

At this point in my life I much prefer (and so does the rest of the family) nordic skiing so as the kids (6 and 4) get bigger I will have to spend some more money on decent skate and skin-classic skis (because no F'ing way am I maintaining a fleet of waxed classic skis for them) so it won't be quite as cheap, but that's ok. It's still going to be <$500 a season all in.

-W
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: sixwings on March 13, 2019, 07:08:32 PM
It snowed here a few weeks ago and I waxed up my old cross country skiis and did some laps around the local golf course. Had a hoot!

Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: jeninco on March 14, 2019, 01:29:20 PM
We're at something like 330" for the season here in Park City.

Skiing can be pretty cheap, really. I probably have 60 pairs of skis in the basement and I'm positive I haven't made it to $1000 in total spending. People dump perfectly good stuff with a bad binding, or just because they want this year's gear, and you can pretty much have it for free.

If you know how to tune and wax skis (ah, my wasted youth) it gets even easier. Lots of people ditch skis (literally) when they get dried out and slow and all they really need is a tune and wax.

At this point in my life I much prefer (and so does the rest of the family) nordic skiing so as the kids (6 and 4) get bigger I will have to spend some more money on decent skate and skin-classic skis (because no F'ing way am I maintaining a fleet of waxed classic skis for them) so it won't be quite as cheap, but that's ok. It's still going to be <$500 a season all in.

-W

You so do not want me to say this, but your kids may enjoy hanging out in the basement with you waxing skis.  (Says the person who nordic patrols on barely-waxed equipment, because I dislike screwing around with it... Mostly I skate, and we just iron on glide wax.)

Ironically, skins are around $100/pair, used, in places with a reasonable Craigslist market. (You can get away with narrower older ones for a bit while the kids are on smaller skis.) For backcountry skiing, over here in CO we get away with Extra Blue (applied at the trailhead) for 80% of winter skiing...
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: waltworks on March 14, 2019, 02:19:26 PM
Even the 4 year old knows how to wax skis. In fact she burned her knuckle on the iron helping me the other day and I thought I was going to get in trouble at her preschool when she told them what happened.

I have a picky wife and want the kids to enjoy themselves, so while I ski on dried-up p-tex all the time, I tend to just maintain 2 or 3 pairs of skis for each of them for different conditions. Kids are easy on wax, though, so it's not that big of a deal to keep up.

FWIW, if you're going to do a lot of waxing in the basement, spend the $40 it costs to get a decent half-face respirator.

-W
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: M5 on March 15, 2019, 11:48:56 AM
If you are active (I am!) or retired military, Vail Resorts (Epic pass) did a $99 pass this year for all Vail owned resorts and no blackout dates. Next year they upped the price to $129 but still a killer deal.

So far this Winter I've skied 17 days on my Epic pass which comes out to $5.82/day. I'd say that's about as mustachian as you can do resort skiing!
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on March 16, 2019, 01:56:14 AM
Today might be the last day with good snow conditions in my local area. Tomorrow it will rain a lot and after that, we will have a period of second springtime. (We had some weeks of springtime earlier this year).
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Askel on March 16, 2019, 05:12:48 AM
Winding down here too.  Still plenty of snow on the ground, but it's going to start getting sloppy/crusty as we go through the early spring temperature swings.  I'm looking forward to getting the fatbike out on the crusty days and the road bike out when it warms enough to clear the roads. 

Skiing specific expenditures this year:
New skis: $300
New boots: $135
Downhill pass: $205
XC pass:  $225

Total:$830
Plus a good bit of gas driving around to all these places. 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Prairie Moustache on March 22, 2019, 10:54:15 AM
I had a XC trip planned for this weekend up to a nice boreal forest area, but the snow disappeared here so quickly over a week that it probably won't be feasible anymore. :(

Recently returned from a trip to Marmot Basin in Jasper, AB and took advantage of their ski for free on your birthday deal.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on March 22, 2019, 01:16:43 PM
DH has gotten a familiar ski injury. He got it from skiing too much with his normal XC ski shoes. His foot now hurts when he walks on it. We are a bit worried about his ability to go skiing in the Easter week, which is our longest week off in skking season. The last trips, he skied of his skating shoes, which are more stiff. But this weekend he is not skiing at all, to heal preventively.

Tomorrow I will go alone, just in the local forest. I will go one of these these routes that DH usually doesn't like to do. It is above zero, so I'll use my zero ski. Looking forewards to do that trail for the first time this winter. i will do it no matter whether it is freshly prepared or not. Probably not...

I wasn't motivated to do that. Instead, I went for a walk in the forest. Someone, more than 1 person, had walked there before me, so there was a solid path. Nuce to be out there again. I tried out my new spike soles.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: anni on August 26, 2020, 12:01:10 PM
Hopefully this isn't too much of a necro? I'm planning to move to Steamboat Springs CO this year and finally get my own gear after renting while learning for the last two winters! I really don't know how to start picking things up. Should I just wait til I get there and shop secondhand?
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: waltworks on August 26, 2020, 12:16:23 PM
Hopefully this isn't too much of a necro? I'm planning to move to Steamboat Springs CO this year and finally get my own gear after renting while learning for the last two winters! I really don't know how to start picking things up. Should I just wait til I get there and shop secondhand?

Don't buy anything until you actually move.

Spend some $ on good boots that are custom fitted to your feet. There will be at least a couple of shops in town that do this. Secondhand boots are cheap as dirt/free but if your feet aren't happy, you won't have any fun.

Good skis are basically free in any ski town. Stop by any local thrift store (or, during the ski season, dumpster). This assumes you vaguely know what kind of ski you want/need.

In Steamboat, your biggest issue is clothing, really. It gets VERY cold, much colder than most other ski towns (which is why I don't live there!) so you'll want to spend some money on really good ski clothes that fit right and will let you actually have fun when you have to sit on the lift and it's -20C.

Also, register your car in CO right away. If Steamboat is anything like here (Park City) people are REAL sick of out of towners moving in right now.

-W
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: YttriumNitrate on August 26, 2020, 12:25:21 PM
Spend some $ on good boots that are custom fitted to your feet. There will be at least a couple of shops in town that do this. Secondhand boots are cheap as dirt/free but if your feet aren't happy, you won't have any fun.

I'll second this. When it comes to ski boots, don't skim on these and find the ones that are the most comfortable regardless of price.

I'd also suggest getting good goggles.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: anni on August 26, 2020, 12:25:55 PM
Hopefully this isn't too much of a necro? I'm planning to move to Steamboat Springs CO this year and finally get my own gear after renting while learning for the last two winters! I really don't know how to start picking things up. Should I just wait til I get there and shop secondhand?

Don't buy anything until you actually move.

Spend some $ on good boots that are custom fitted to your feet. There will be at least a couple of shops in town that do this. Secondhand boots are cheap as dirt/free but if your feet aren't happy, you won't have any fun.

Good skis are basically free in any ski town. Stop by any local thrift store (or, during the ski season, dumpster). This assumes you vaguely know what kind of ski you want/need.

In Steamboat, your biggest issue is clothing, really. It gets VERY cold, much colder than most other ski towns (which is why I don't live there!) so you'll want to spend some money on really good ski clothes that fit right and will let you actually have fun when you have to sit on the lift and it's -20C.

Also, get a block heater for your car!

-W

Thanks Walt! This was what I needed to hear to stop myself from shopping labor day gear sales.

I guess I was spoiled on my original trip to Steamboat in February... It was beautiful at the base and too warm to keep my coat zipped at the top of the mountain. I see now that their average lows are near zero F.

Will definitely have to do some research on the cold weather car maintenance. I have some friends who already live there so I'll ask what they do, too. I would think externally powered tools might be tricky living in a condo. I've never lived somewhere so cold. Guess I might have to finally upgrade from my LL Bean youth boys' bib, too... Lol
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: YttriumNitrate on August 26, 2020, 12:30:20 PM
Thanks Walt! This was what I needed to hear to stop myself from shopping labor day gear sales.

Is Ski Chalet having their Dilly in Chantilly sale this year? Two decades ago, that's where I picked up my ski boots (that I  still use). It took two days of trying on boots to find the right ones.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: anni on August 26, 2020, 12:35:31 PM
Thanks Walt! This was what I needed to hear to stop myself from shopping labor day gear sales.

Is Ski Chalet having their Dilly in Chantilly sale this year? Two decades ago, that's where I picked up my ski boots (that I  still use). It took two days of trying on boots to find the right ones.

Hmm, looks like it might be called Sun & Ski now? It's a bit out of the way but if I'm over there I'll check it out, thanks!


Also, register your car in CO right away. If Steamboat is anything like here (Park City) people are REAL sick of out of towners moving in right now.

Oof... Understandable, though. I'd be mad too.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: waltworks on August 26, 2020, 01:05:30 PM
You're young enough that it's probably ok. Here we suddenly have an extra 800 kids in the school system (that only has about 5000 to begin with) all of a sudden and people with NY and CA license plates cursing and honking at us because we're in the way of their Jaguars on our bikes.

If you're not a jerk and/or Jaguar/Porsche Cayenne/BMW driver, you'll be fine. Northern VA is high on the list of places people despise in ski towns right now, though.

Steamboat has great nordic skiing too at Howelson/base of Emerald and out at the golf course, check that out, especially on cold days (it's easy to stay warm!)

Springtime sucks (even moreso than most ski towns, Steamboat has a long mud season and is super isolated), make friends with someone who has a place in Moab or else you'll be bored out of your skull for 2 months.

-W
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Jack0Life on August 26, 2020, 05:06:25 PM
Hopefully this isn't too much of a necro? I'm planning to move to Steamboat Springs CO this year and finally get my own gear after renting while learning for the last two winters! I really don't know how to start picking things up. Should I just wait til I get there and shop secondhand?

Wait till after the ski season is over. Get gears at big discounts.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Jack0Life on August 26, 2020, 05:09:28 PM
We have an early ski trip this winter. Dec 18th to Keystone.
Mostly free. Southwest pts and 4 nights in the Keystone Hyatt Place, also on pts.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: mountain mustache on August 26, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
@anni one thing I learned on my journey to buy ski stuff for the first time a few years ago is that not all used skis will work with the boots I have. Not just bindings-wise (That is super important) but also...if skis are really old, and/or bindings have been moved around a lot on them (so they have lots of holes) sometimes they aren't able to drill holes in the right spots for your specific size boots to fit. I had a close call with some skis I purchased that they were just barely able to make work. I would definitely shop for the perfect boots first, make sure you love those, and then try to find some used skis from someone with a really similar boot size if you can.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: anni on August 27, 2020, 10:40:34 AM
@anni one thing I learned on my journey to buy ski stuff for the first time a few years ago is that not all used skis will work with the boots I have. Not just bindings-wise (That is super important) but also...if skis are really old, and/or bindings have been moved around a lot on them (so they have lots of holes) sometimes they aren't able to drill holes in the right spots for your specific size boots to fit. I had a close call with some skis I purchased that they were just barely able to make work. I would definitely shop for the perfect boots first, make sure you love those, and then try to find some used skis from someone with a really similar boot size if you can.

Never would have thought of this, having only used rentals before. Thanks! I think I might just get to the mountain first, rent + borrow for a couple of days to make sure I really want to ski bum as much as I think I do. Then start with boots.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: TrMama on August 27, 2020, 12:01:19 PM
This sounds like the most fun plan ever. Trying not to be jealous.

Ditto the advice to get new boots that are very comfy for you. One of the big reasons used/rental boots are so uncomfortable is because the foam in them compresses with use. After enough days of being strapped to someone's feet that foam doesn't fully rebound and starts to feel like concrete. If you become a long term ski bum, budget for new boots every few years.

As for cold weather, your car really only needs winter tires, cold weather windshield cleaner and possibly a block heater. -20C isn't quite cold enough to make a block heater a necessity, but it will make it happier to start and should extend the life of your battery. If it drops to -30 or below for more than a few days per year, get the block heater. I also always carry a blanket or sleeping bag, some granola bars and a shovel in the trunk.

Skiing on the coldest days can be the best because more people will stay home so the lift lines will disappear :-) Key items are good wool socks (I like ski socks with the thicker shins), heavy mitts (not gloves) plus separate liners and a really nice ski mask. A flimsy buff doesn't cut it, get something more like this https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5061-017/Combo-Clava-Balaclava. A balaclava with breathing holes will keep it from getting wet and making your nose, mouth and chin really cold.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: anni on August 27, 2020, 02:49:59 PM
Lol @TrMama I was just joking with my roommate that I couldn't remember ever seeing someone but a movie bank robber in a real ski mask... turns out they are more practical than expected I guess! Thanks for the car tips. I'll get her tuned up before I drive out and pick up the rest there.

Also @waltworks that stinks about the newcomers... I don't know how fast I can get my plates changed, but at least I'll be cruising into town in my '09 Civic with my bike in the back... honking horns are one of the myriad reasons I'm skipping town :)
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Buffaloski Boris on August 27, 2020, 03:12:33 PM
Hopefully this isn't too much of a necro? I'm planning to move to Steamboat Springs CO this year and finally get my own gear after renting while learning for the last two winters! I really don't know how to start picking things up. Should I just wait til I get there and shop secondhand?

I like necro posts so no necro is too old!  And I'm jealous as hell of you getting to move to Steamboat.  Dang.  I really gotta get out of Virginia. 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: anni on August 28, 2020, 07:30:44 PM
Hopefully this isn't too much of a necro? I'm planning to move to Steamboat Springs CO this year and finally get my own gear after renting while learning for the last two winters! I really don't know how to start picking things up. Should I just wait til I get there and shop secondhand?

I like necro posts so no necro is too old!  And I'm jealous as hell of you getting to move to Steamboat.  Dang.  I really gotta get out of Virginia.

Definitely feeling lucky! I'm only leasing through June, but fingers crossed that remote work catches on and I can stick around for a second winter.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: waltworks on August 28, 2020, 10:13:04 PM
Having an actual decent job and going skiing is not technically "ski-bumming", for what it's worth.

You have to have a job that sucks. Bumping chairs, scooping ice cream for tourists, pumping gas, etc. Patrolling is allowed, but you're quite a ways out from being able to do that, and they mostly recruit from Baskin-Robbins anyway.

Faker! :P

-W
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: anni on August 28, 2020, 10:21:38 PM
Having an actual decent job and going skiing is not technically "ski-bumming", for what it's worth.

You have to have a job that sucks. Bumping chairs, scooping ice cream for tourists, pumping gas, etc. Patrolling is allowed, but you're quite a ways out from being able to do that, and they mostly recruit from Baskin-Robbins anyway.

Faker! :P

-W

Oh, who knows, I might skip out on the FI dream and go back to my hospitality roots... it would free up mornings, anyway. ;)
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: cookielover on August 30, 2020, 10:56:13 PM
Who knows what the ski season this year will look like. 

Last season we did not ski much as it cut short due to COVID-19.    As a last year ski season pass holder we are getting $100 discount toward this year pass.  But we may not want to go ski this year if COVID is not under control by the ski season.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: waltworks on August 31, 2020, 07:30:26 AM
Meh, they're loading 2 people at a time on quads unless you're related/already together. And it's outside, and everyone will be masked (which is basically normal when skiing anyway).

Bring a sack lunch, apres at your own place, and enjoy much less crowded terrain (at least in places that usually draw a lot of overseas tourists).

Your risk in the scenario that Vail is implementing is IMO about zero unless you deliberately endanger yourself.

-W
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Daisy on August 31, 2020, 01:14:48 PM
Who knows what the ski season this year will look like. 

Last season we did not ski much as it cut short due to COVID-19.    As a last year ski season pass holder we are getting $100 discount toward this year pass.  But we may not want to go ski this year if COVID is not under control by the ski season.

It sounds like you have the IKON pass like I do.

Unfortunately, I had already purchased the 20/21 pass in early March before the COVID closures. I only got to ski one week with my 19/20 ski pass, so I was ski-bummed. IKON did not give any discounts on the 19/20 passes even though most of the season was cancelled. So for 20/21 they are offering a free deferral to 21/22.

I have a mustachian idea to take advantage of the generous deferral offer IKON has on the 20/21 pass. Now, I know with the 21/22 season pass at times and in some locations you can ski in spring 2021. So, I am thinking of taking the deferral and then using it for two ski seasons! 2021 (spring and then later winter) and 2022 winter and spring.

I was trying to find on their website where and when I could spring ski in the previous year's late spring season with the 21/22 ski pass but can't seem to find the information. Does anyone know this information?
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Daisy on August 31, 2020, 01:21:32 PM
I am thinking of finally learning how to cross country ski for the 20/21 season. I have never tried it, and being from Florida I always end up downhill skiing when I have a chance to go to the mountains in the winter.

Cross country skiing seems more social-distance friendly and less likely to be banned with the virus rules.

And I'm worried the downhill ski resorts will not open fully for the 20/21 ski season...hence my attempt to hack the IKON pass rules in my previous post.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Daisy on August 31, 2020, 01:30:36 PM
I found some info on the spring access. Hopefully it will be the same for 2021.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200227005646/en/Ikon-Pass-Unlocks-Winter-2021-March-5

Quote
Spring Access
New 20/21 Ikon Pass and Ikon Base Pass holders will have immediate access to unlimited spring skiing at Big Bear Mountain Resort, Crystal Mountain, Snowshoe, Stratton and Blue Mountain, valid day of purchase. Starting April 13, 2020, new pass holders will have unlimited spring access at Mammoth Mountain, Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows, Solitude Mountain Resort, Sugarbush Resort, and Winter Park.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Linea_Norway on September 03, 2020, 01:46:22 PM
I am thinking of finally learning how to cross country ski for the 20/21 season. I have never tried it, and being from Florida I always end up downhill skiing when I have a chance to go to the mountains in the winter.

Cross country skiing seems more social-distance friendly and less likely to be banned with the virus rules.

And I'm worried the downhill ski resorts will not open fully for the 20/21 ski season...hence my attempt to hack the IKON pass rules in my previous post.

It should indeed be social distance friendly. But it is also a very different activity/sport. If you ski at leasure pace, it is like walking/hiking through the snow in a besutiful winterland, something you couldn't have done on you shoes with a lot of snow. If you want more sports, you just go faster and it becomes a nice way to excercise in the same landscape, covering more distance.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Dr Kidstache on September 05, 2020, 09:57:50 AM
It started feeling like fall virtually overnight here in the mountains. Fall is my favorite season but I get so excited thinking that snow will be here soon and I can ski again! The local Vail resort has announced their opening plans and we'll see how it goes. I don't go inside the restaurants/shops anyway so I consider skiing a low-risk activity with the precautions announced for lift lines and reservations. I love to skate ski and that shouldn't be affected by the pandemic. It was a real solace last March/April to still be able to Nordic ski after the resorts closed down.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Daisy on September 10, 2020, 11:37:50 AM
It started feeling like fall virtually overnight here in the mountains. Fall is my favorite season but I get so excited thinking that snow will be here soon and I can ski again! The local Vail resort has announced their opening plans and we'll see how it goes. I don't go inside the restaurants/shops anyway so I consider skiing a low-risk activity with the precautions announced for lift lines and reservations. I love to skate ski and that shouldn't be affected by the pandemic. It was a real solace last March/April to still be able to Nordic ski after the resorts closed down.

You are right. It is a low risk activity. Not living close to the mountains, I just can't take the risk to maintain my ski pass for 20/21. Living by the mountains like you do makes it easier to keep a ski pass and be able to ski on many days. I can't risk making travel plans and then having to go through all of the cancellations.

I will be content in 20/21 to continue enjoying Florida during winter. It is actually our best weather season!

I hope to try out cross country skiing too. Now I need to research good frugal places to cross country ski. I will probably stay on the east coast.

I hope you are doing well @Dr Kidstache .
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: clarkfan1979 on September 10, 2020, 01:57:08 PM
I live 2 hours and 15 minutes from Breckenridge, CO. I am going to buy the EPIC local pass for $729. When I drive by myself, it costs me about $15-$20 in gas round trip (depending on the price of gas). I will probably go 30 times. I will ride with a friend 5-10 times. I will probably spend $400 in gas during the entire season. This habit is $200/month for 6 months or $1200/year.

My summer habit is golf which is about the same price. I buy a season pass for $550 and then each round is $15. If I play 30 rounds, it should cost me around $1,000 and 40 rounds is around $1,200.

I plan to spend $2400/year on 30 days of snowboarding and 40 rounds of golf. It's not cheap, but I think it's reasonable.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: waltworks on September 10, 2020, 02:09:25 PM
Driving on I70 is not worth it even if the pass was free.

-W
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: anni on September 10, 2020, 02:47:00 PM
Going to order my Ikon pass as soon as my new early-spend-bonus credit card gets in. Ikon is going to let me select the resort I'll now be living at as my home base, so if it closes early at least I'll get prorated credit toward next year. I think it'll pay for itself even if I only get to ski at the resort for a month. Feeling super lucky in any case.

Next order of business is tires... I just had to get new all-weathers put on, which is a bit of a bummer to my wallet since I'll be driving them to Colorado just in time to swap them out for snow tires. Will have to store them under my bed or something until summer... They do have 3PMSF on them and there are some convincing snow reviews (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO0zyQh2l3M) out there, but I'm worried still.

My roommate has a 4WD SUV with snow tires we can take for any trips into the mountains. I'm wondering if just some chains in the trunk will suffice since I'll be staying within the same 5-mile radius all winter?

If not, tips on sourcing affordable/temporary snow tires would be super helpful.

Also, I hope everyone is safe during this apocalypse now thing going on.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: waltworks on September 10, 2020, 03:01:07 PM
Steamboat bus system is pretty decent for what it is. If you're going to be in town/at the resort/going to the grocery store, you probably don't need to drive at all. If you're near the CORE trail, it's groomed in winter, too. Grab a fatbike or some snowshoes or some skate skis and you can commute lots of places that way.

Honestly, the biggest issue in resort towns isn't going to be *your* tires or car, it's the other people. I don't drive on bad days no matter how confident I am in my own car, because people slide around like morons all over who just flew in from TX.

-W
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Longwaytogo on September 10, 2020, 03:11:59 PM
Meh, they're loading 2 people at a time on quads unless you're related/already together. And it's outside, and everyone will be masked (which is basically normal when skiing anyway).

Bring a sack lunch, apres at your own place, and enjoy much less crowded terrain (at least in places that usually draw a lot of overseas tourists).

Your risk in the scenario that Vail is implementing is IMO about zero unless you deliberately endanger yourself.

-W

I'm starting to feel more confidently about it myself. Though in our case it often involves a hotel/condo as well which is another non zero additional risk.

SKI PA just announced today they are not doing their "4th and 5th graders ski free" program because of Covid. What the price of the kids ticket has to do with covid I don't quite understand. But in my families case it would require us to buy 4 season passes instead of 3.

With all the unknowns of this season we have decided not to get season passes this year. We still hope to get 5-10 ski days in but probably not 10+ where the pass really makes you money. So may as well pay as we go this year and open up the option to explore different resorts.

Jealous of all you folks out West in the real mountains. Our winters have been really mild lately and the hills are small!!!
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: anni on September 10, 2020, 03:17:24 PM
Steamboat bus system is pretty decent for what it is. If you're going to be in town/at the resort/going to the grocery store, you probably don't need to drive at all. If you're near the CORE trail, it's groomed in winter, too. Grab a fatbike or some snowshoes or some skate skis and you can commute lots of places that way.

Honestly, the biggest issue in resort towns isn't going to be *your* tires or car, it's the other people. I don't drive on bad days no matter how confident I am in my own car, because people slide around like morons all over who just flew in from TX.

-W

Thanks, I was starting to think the same thing. I saw that trail, it looks niiiiice. I have a decently beefy bike I'm bringing with me but lugging skis+boots is more of the issue there. Maybe I can find some storage solutions near the mountain. Hopefully the bus runs like usual, but it'll still add about 30 minutes to the journey (over driving). Since I'm not truly ski bumming it I prioritized price over proximity haha.

We are going to get snowplowed in anyways so I had planned to keep driving to a minimum somewhat against my will... I guess I'll get there first and see how it goes.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: waltworks on September 10, 2020, 03:20:55 PM
Are you in Steamboat 2, or Hayden, or something? There's nothing 30 minutes away from anything in Steamboat unless you're walking.

-W
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: anni on September 10, 2020, 03:47:32 PM
Are you in Steamboat 2, or Hayden, or something? There's nothing 30 minutes away from anything in Steamboat unless you're walking.

-W

I meant - Maps says 45 minutes by bus from my house to the resort. 10 minutes driving. 20 minutes biking.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: waltworks on September 10, 2020, 04:36:17 PM
My guess is that once you're in town you can figure out an easy way to use the bus system. The automated trip planner things are usually garbage, especially for multi-mode (ie drive or ride or walk a few minutes to the right bus line). Then again, you might just be in a bad spot for the bus, in which case, you'll know better next year when your lease is up. First year in any town you always figure out a lot about where you really want to be and what amenities you really use.

-W
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Arbitrage on September 10, 2020, 04:42:22 PM
Driving on I70 is not worth it even if the pass was free.

-W

Looks like he's from Pueblo, so not taking I-70.  Of course, his estimate is subject to the typical (of Americans, not mustachians who usually know better) error of estimating the cost of driving to be gas only. 
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: waltworks on September 10, 2020, 06:33:34 PM
285 ain't much better these days. And good god, I would not commute from Pueblo to Breck to go ski... jeesus.

-W
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: mountain mustache on September 10, 2020, 10:07:05 PM
285 ain't much better these days. And good god, I would not commute from Pueblo to Breck to go ski... jeesus.

-W

This! Why not Monarch? Yeah, it doesn’t have the hour long lift lines, but it’s still pretty fun skiing!
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: mountain mustache on September 10, 2020, 10:15:17 PM

Next order of business is tires... I just had to get new all-weathers put on, which is a bit of a bummer to my wallet since I'll be driving them to Colorado just in time to swap them out for snow tires. Will have to store them under my bed or something until summer... They do have 3PMSF on them and there are some convincing snow reviews (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO0zyQh2l3M) out there, but I'm worried still.

My roommate has a 4WD SUV with snow tires we can take for any trips into the mountains. I'm wondering if just some chains in the trunk will suffice since I'll be staying within the same 5-mile radius all winter?

If not, tips on sourcing affordable/temporary snow tires would be super helpful.

Also, I hope everyone is safe during this apocalypse now thing going on.

FWIW re: snow tires, I lived in a mountain town for 3 years in CO with just regular AT tires, and AWD (Although, my town definitely got less snow than Steamboat) It really was fine, partially because I rode my bike/walked a lot, but also because I just took it slow, and really only drove in the Winter to get groceries, or to friends houses, and I was in no hurry. If you drive the speed that the conditions dictate, you will generally be fine. Of course you can’t control the other people around you, though!

I did end up getting legitimate snow tires when I started skiing because I would drive up to the pass at 5am to skin, and the plows wouldn’t have driven through yet so it was dicey driving sometimes. . I also started driving an hour to another town to ski a different mountain, and really appreciated the confidence on the highway after/in a storm. I think my set was like $450 installed, which I thought was a pretty good deal for the difference they made in traction and confidence.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: Dr Kidstache on September 11, 2020, 10:06:31 PM
285 ain't much better these days. And good god, I would not commute from Pueblo to Breck to go ski... jeesus.

-W

This! Why not Monarch? Yeah, it doesn’t have the hour long lift lines, but it’s still pretty fun skiing!

This! Why not Wolf Creek? (I'm just piling on at this point)
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: jeninco on September 13, 2020, 05:30:24 PM
285 ain't much better these days. And good god, I would not commute from Pueblo to Breck to go ski... jeesus.

-W

This! Why not Monarch? Yeah, it doesn’t have the hour long lift lines, but it’s still pretty fun skiing!

This! Why not Wolf Creek? (I'm just piling on at this point)

To be fair, both areas are awesome-sauce when they have fresh snow, and can be icy, ass-chappingly cold, and full of ... shall we say, "not the strongest skiers from neighboring states".  I've skied at Wolf Creek (in powder, off the ridge, duh) when the snow was so cold that my kid's skiis didn't really slide on it, and I had to tow him to the base.

Mirkwood ("Smirkwood", when the snow's great) can be FANTASTIC if you don't mind a bit of walking.
Title: Re: The mustachian skiing (and other non motorized winter sports) thread.
Post by: mountain mustache on September 14, 2020, 06:37:11 PM
285 ain't much better these days. And good god, I would not commute from Pueblo to Breck to go ski... jeesus.

-W

This! Why not Monarch? Yeah, it doesn’t have the hour long lift lines, but it’s still pretty fun skiing!

This! Why not Wolf Creek? (I'm just piling on at this point)

To be fair, both areas are awesome-sauce when they have fresh snow, and can be icy, ass-chappingly cold, and full of ... shall we say, "not the strongest skiers from neighboring states".  I've skied at Wolf Creek (in powder, off the ridge, duh) when the snow was so cold that my kid's skiis didn't really slide on it, and I had to tow him to the base.

Mirkwood ("Smirkwood", when the snow's great) can be FANTASTIC if you don't mind a bit of walking.

Yes, Monarch can be SO cold and windy some days, although I think the weather is pretty great most days. I have skinned up at Monarch in -10 with a windchill of god knows what at 5am, and I remember taking my skins off at the top, starting to go downhill and then being like...wait, did I take my skins off? I'm not moving! Haha.

Interestingly I have experienced the worst skiers (and also the most rude/inconsiderate skiers) at the big resorts like Breckenridge vs. the little places. I think it's just the sheer volume, you are bound to have some narrow misses with people who just aren't paying attention. Monarch is 1/2 empty most of the time, so it's easier to avoid people (IMO).