The Magic Pill

[MasterStache]

Just curious if anyone has watched and would like to share their thoughts on the documentary The Magic Pill. Just watched it last night. It peeked my curiosity because I have taken a more low carb approach to my diet. I've always been in decent shape but always had a bit of a belly as well. Kind of like a skinny fat body type. I've lost a couple pounds as my waist has shrink a little bit. So far so good.

[Bucksandreds]

Just curious if anyone has watched and would like to share their thoughts on the documentary The Magic Pill. Just watched it last night. It peeked my curiosity because I have taken a more low carb approach to my diet. I've always been in decent shape but always had a bit of a belly as well. Kind of like a skinny fat body type. I've lost a couple pounds as my waist has shrink a little bit. So far so good.

Saw it but don’t like that the only real comparisons made were ketogenic diet to typical high processed sugar American diet. Any diet is better than the typical American one. Also, it’s fairly well known that a Keto diet doesn’t stop the growth of the majority of cancers and this movie uses a single example as their ‘proof’ that it does.

[OtherJen]

Just curious if anyone has watched and would like to share their thoughts on the documentary The Magic Pill. Just watched it last night. It peeked my curiosity because I have taken a more low carb approach to my diet. I've always been in decent shape but always had a bit of a belly as well. Kind of like a skinny fat body type. I've lost a couple pounds as my waist has shrink a little bit. So far so good.

Saw it but don’t like that the only real comparisons made were ketogenic diet to typical high processed sugar American diet. Any diet is better than the typical American one. Also, it’s fairly well known that a Keto diet doesn’t stop the growth of the majority of cancers and this movie uses a single example as their ‘proof’ that it does.

This. The doc definitely had an agenda. But I do agree with them that everyone would benefit from a whole food-based diet.

I found the examples of autistic kids to be most compelling. It’s anecdata, but my friend had similarly good results with her autistic daughter, and she tried the dietitian of desperation at the recommendation of still other parents. The implication that at least some ASDs may have a metabolic basis is fascinating.

[Bucksandreds]

Yeah. Not trying to say keto is bad but I would say that there is no real evidence, for the vast majority of people that keto is better or even as healthy as other diets such as Mediterranean.  I would say that logically I would think that humans tend to fair better with all things in moderation and this diet, espouses over 50% of calories from animal fat. I think that reasonable amounts of whole grains, fruits and other carbs should not be abandoned for most people. Just as this documentary shows keto lowering ldl, Oatmeal everyday for breakfast lowered my ldl 15-20%. If all carbs are bad for humans, why would certain whole grains have such positive effects for so many. Again Keto >>>>>>>>> processed sugars.

[marty998]

Just curious if anyone has watched and would like to share their thoughts on the documentary The Magic Pill. Just watched it last night. It peeked my curiosity because I have taken a more low carb approach to my diet. I've always been in decent shape but always had a bit of a belly as well. Kind of like a skinny fat body type. I've lost a couple pounds as my waist has shrink a little bit. So far so good.

Only because I'm such a pedantic pedant:

The word is piqued.

:)

[G-dog]

It was interesting, and I agree with the items others have brought up.  That said, I think we all would rather have a magic pill than do the hard work of changing our behaviors.  The pill pyramid scares me - pill 1 causes adverse effects a and b, so let’s add pills 2 and 3 to treat those (snowball....). 

I find it hard to believe that our ancestors had that much access to fat and protein - the were hunter GATHERERS. The protein and fat were important, but I suspect (no data, no studies) that they had a predominantly plant based diet.

It’s sad to think what the originally good intentions of processed food (shelf stability, food safety) have lead to.

[G-dog]

Just curious if anyone has watched and would like to share their thoughts on the documentary The Magic Pill. Just watched it last night. It peeked my curiosity because I have taken a more low carb approach to my diet. I've always been in decent shape but always had a bit of a belly as well. Kind of like a skinny fat body type. I've lost a couple pounds as my waist has shrink a little bit. So far so good.

Only because I'm such a pedantic pedant:

The word is piqued.

:)

Peek
Peak
Pique

Homonyms are fun!

[ender]

Yeah. Not trying to say keto is bad but I would say that there is no real evidence, for the vast majority of people that keto is better or even as healthy as other diets such as Mediterranean.  I would say that logically I would think that humans tend to fair better with all things in moderation and this diet, espouses over 50% of calories from animal fat. I think that reasonable amounts of whole grains, fruits and other carbs should not be abandoned for most people. Just as this documentary shows keto lowering ldl, Oatmeal everyday for breakfast lowered my ldl 15-20%. If all carbs are bad for humans, why would certain whole grains have such positive effects for so many. Again Keto >>>>>>>>> processed sugars.

It's worth pointing out that overconsumption is worse than any diet. Coincidentally I'm trying keto purely because that diet makes it more straightforward for me to not overeat.

It's simple. Carbs? no. And it also turns out it's very, very difficult to overeat if you avoid carbs entirely.

My problem with weight isn't the variety of food I eat -- it's the quantity. It is very rare that people who eat healthy have the same problem.

It's kind of like budgeting. We don't "budget" strictly because we don't have a problem overspending. But for people who do overspend, advice is always the same - make a plan, stick to it, and save money/pay off debt aggressively. Keto is in effect that for me right now. I will be curious what it looks like over a few months...

There are many people who don't have the same difficulty moderating food intake I do (just like others are worse at managing spending).

[MasterStache]

Just curious if anyone has watched and would like to share their thoughts on the documentary The Magic Pill. Just watched it last night. It peeked my curiosity because I have taken a more low carb approach to my diet. I've always been in decent shape but always had a bit of a belly as well. Kind of like a skinny fat body type. I've lost a couple pounds as my waist has shrink a little bit. So far so good.

Only because I'm such a pedantic pedant:

The word is piqued.

:)

Good catch! ( :

[dbm]

I always laugh when someone contributes their new found body shape purely to diet.  I've had a few conversations like the below:

Friend: I'm feeling so much better due to this keto diet, it's the only diet that works, and I attribute all of my health to this diet
Me: That's great.  Didn't you also start going to the gym too, how's that going?
F: Yup, 4 times a week.
Me: And get up early everyday to walk 5k by the river?
F: Yup, but it's the diet, all the diet.

People who lose weight, get fit, and generally feel better change their whole lifestyle, but a lot of the time attribute it totally to their diet.

That being said, diet is very important.  My choice is just less or no processed foods...

Will watch this.  Although I just looked it up and it's got Pete Evans but even so will still watch it though...

[GuitarStv]

It's simple. Carbs? no. And it also turns out it's very, very difficult to overeat if you avoid carbs entirely.

If you avoid carbs entirely, you're going to be incredibly unhealthy.  Carbs include vegetables, fruit, and are the primary calorie source in most legumes.

[Thegoblinchief]

I eat pretty low carb and it works really well for my body. I don’t intentionally eat anywhere near as much fat as shown in that documentary, though. Some of those meals actively grossed me out just looking at them. Only made it about half an hour in. I don’t track what I eat, but I’m generally more low carb, moderate to high protein, moderate fat.

My reasoning is similar to @ender above. It’s a self-moderating way of eating. It generally helps my depression and anxiety, gives me much more energy for far longer without getting hungry, but mainly it’s a very easy way to avoid overeating. Moderating around grains and sugar is very hard for me, but I don’t really miss them anymore nowadays.

16 months in, at an adult low for total weight and BF%. Still a little ways to go, not sure how much as I’ve never been this thin or had this much lean mass as an adult, so no specific goal weight in mind.

[ender]

It's simple. Carbs? no. And it also turns out it's very, very difficult to overeat if you avoid carbs entirely.

If you avoid carbs entirely, you're going to be incredibly unhealthy.  Carbs include vegetables, fruit, and are the primary calorie source in most legumes.

Incredibly unhealthy?

I can eat vitamins or even low carb vegetables/fruits and get all the nutrients I need even if I actively avoid carbs throughout the rest of my life.

[Hirondelle]

It's simple. Carbs? no. And it also turns out it's very, very difficult to overeat if you avoid carbs entirely.

Is this anecdotal or evidence-based? I've tried the whole "let's go low carb thing" for a few weeks of my life and discovered that for me it's remarkably easy to overeat on nuts and cheese.

Btw; Avoiding fats entirely makes it probably just as easy to stop overeating as most of the worst carb foods (cakes, ice-cream etc.) also contain lots of fat.

I'm not against low-carb eating per se, but I feel like the keto-crowd is just another diet-extreme that isn't considered to be healthy in the long run. Sure it's good for (short term) weight loss; but surprise surprise: ANY calory-restricting diet is if people stick to it. This has been scientifically proven over and over again.

A whole foods-based diet with low/moderate carb intake on the other hand sounds like an excellent healthy diet to me :). But people panicking over eating too many carrots while consuming pounds of bacon at a time, not so much.

(note; not attacking anyone personal on these forums, just using general things I've heard from keto-enthusiasts)

[eljefe-speaks]

anecdata

New favorite word.

[GuitarStv]

It's simple. Carbs? no. And it also turns out it's very, very difficult to overeat if you avoid carbs entirely.

If you avoid carbs entirely, you're going to be incredibly unhealthy.  Carbs include vegetables, fruit, and are the primary calorie source in most legumes.

Incredibly unhealthy?

I can eat vitamins or even low carb vegetables/fruits and get all the nutrients I need even if I actively avoid carbs throughout the rest of my life.

Manufactured vitamins are a (very) poor substitute for following a proper diet.  There are problems with regulation of the whole supplement industry.  There are problems with bio-availability of many of the nutrients in pill form.  There is the lack of the different types of fiber, which study after study have been showing is a vital component to good dietary health.

If you're eating lots of carbs via vegetables and fruits you can totally have a healthy diet.  That's kinda a no-brainer.  You said "Carbs?  no."  and "avoid carbs entirely" though.  That's extremely unhealthy advice, and would involve cutting all vegetables, fruit, and legumes out of your diet.

I think that what you mean to say is "avoid eating empty carbs".  Energy without fiber and nutrients . . . like most white breads, white rice, white pasta, most things with pumped up amounts of sugar (cakes, cookies, crackers, pretzels, etc.).  If you primarily eat fried chicken and beef jerky, cutting protein from your diet for a period of time will improve your health.  That's not because protein is bad for you, it's because you've been eating eating shit protein.  By the same token, there's absolutely nothing wrong with carbs (they're essential to a healthy diet) . . . just don't eat shit carbs.

(I'd actually argue that there's a place for a certain quantity of high glycemic index very digestible carbs in a properly designed dietary plan for an athlete . . . but that's a whole other can of worms.)

[OurTown]

Nothing wrong with vegetables on a lo-carb diet because you subtract out the fiber to get the magic "net carbs."  Fruits are more suspect, but you can generally have a modest amount of berries.

[ender]

I mean @GuitarStv I guess if your goal is 0.00 net carbs, sure. I'm not sure any of the "lowcarb" or even "nocarb" types of diets like Keto say that though.

My lunch today had a bunch of asparagus, pickles, and salad greens.

[GuitarStv]

Nothing wrong with vegetables on a lo-carb diet because you subtract out the fiber to get the magic "net carbs."  Fruits are more suspect, but you can generally have a modest amount of berries.

I've known remarkably few people who became fat by overeating fruit.  :P

[oldmachines]

Having recently watched both I would recommend "In Defense of Food" as a better guideline for a healthy diet.

[coynemoney]

It's simple. Carbs? no. And it also turns out it's very, very difficult to overeat if you avoid carbs entirely.

If you avoid carbs entirely, you're going to be incredibly unhealthy.  Carbs include vegetables, fruit, and are the primary calorie source in most legumes.

Incredibly unhealthy?

I can eat vitamins or even low carb vegetables/fruits and get all the nutrients I need even if I actively avoid carbs throughout the rest of my life.

Manufactured vitamins are a (very) poor substitute for following a proper diet.  There are problems with regulation of the whole supplement industry.  There are problems with bio-availability of many of the nutrients in pill form.  There is the lack of the different types of fiber, which study after study have been showing is a vital component to good dietary health.

If you're eating lots of carbs via vegetables and fruits you can totally have a healthy diet.  That's kinda a no-brainer.  You said "Carbs?  no."  and "avoid carbs entirely" though.  That's extremely unhealthy advice, and would involve cutting all vegetables, fruit, and legumes out of your diet.

I think that what you mean to say is "avoid eating empty carbs".  Energy without fiber and nutrients . . . like most white breads, white rice, white pasta, most things with pumped up amounts of sugar (cakes, cookies, crackers, pretzels, etc.).  If you primarily eat fried chicken and beef jerky, cutting protein from your diet for a period of time will improve your health.  That's not because protein is bad for you, it's because you've been eating eating shit protein.  By the same token, there's absolutely nothing wrong with carbs (they're essential to a healthy diet) . . . just don't eat shit carbs.

(I'd actually argue that there's a place for a certain quantity of high glycemic index very digestible carbs in a properly designed dietary plan for an athlete . . . but that's a whole other can of worms.)

I would be careful with your convictions that carbs are necessary and without them you are "extremely unhealthy". There has been recent somewhat underground push toward zero carb - (in reality <5 g per day) so called "carnivore" diets that seem to be showing that our understanding of what is necessary in terms of micro and macro nutrients is not so crystal clear. Specifically Dr. Shawn Baker has eaten strictly beef and butter for approx. 18  months with nothing but positive effects - check out his website meatheals.com for a bunch of testimonials.

I'm not saying carbs are or are not necessary or important I just found it odd that you seem so sure of what you're saying when from what I've been seeing lately no one is entirely sure what is the ideal human diet.

[SachaFiscal]

I think for obese people who are used to eating a lot of meat and need to kick their sugar and processed food cravings this may be a good option to lose a lot of weight quickly. But I think this diet would be difficult to maintain long term. Also it’s unclear what the long term side effects of eating this way are. We know that the standard American diet (high fat, high sugar, lots of meat and processed foods) can lead to a host of problems but there are arguments on all sides whether its from the fat, the sugar, the meat, or the processed foods.

I think doing this short term to lose weight of you are obese is probably okay but then switching to a more well rounded healthy diet and moderate exercise would be best. A diet high in whole plant foods, moderate meat, and moderate whole grains. Limit processed foods to every once in a while. Also add daily 30 minutes of high intensity exercise or 60 minutes of moderate exercise. I personally do this except I rarely eat meat and only eat dairy once a week at most.

[GuitarStv]

Vitamins and fiber are essential parts of a healthy diet.  The best sources of many vitamins and most fiber is plant based.  Plant based foods all contain carbs.  Ergo, cutting carbs out of your diet entirely is unhealthy (regardless of what a single data point who happens to be trying to sell you diet advice has managed to survive for 18 months.)

I don't believe that everything is known regarding human diets.  There's a lot of research being done in the field, and there's new information all the time.  If you can find me a single credible study that a zero carb diet is as healthy (let alone healthier) than a diet high in fruit and vegetables, I'd be happy to read it . . . and will be forced to change my opinion.  I bet you'll have trouble finding such though.

There's ample and easy to find research supporting the arguments I've been making:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257631/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK218764/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705355/
https://academic.oup.com/cdn/article/2/3/nzy005/4828321
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9804189
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9150856
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18156304

[Hirondelle]

It's simple. Carbs? no. And it also turns out it's very, very difficult to overeat if you avoid carbs entirely.

If you avoid carbs entirely, you're going to be incredibly unhealthy.  Carbs include vegetables, fruit, and are the primary calorie source in most legumes.

Incredibly unhealthy?

I can eat vitamins or even low carb vegetables/fruits and get all the nutrients I need even if I actively avoid carbs throughout the rest of my life.

Manufactured vitamins are a (very) poor substitute for following a proper diet.  There are problems with regulation of the whole supplement industry.  There are problems with bio-availability of many of the nutrients in pill form.  There is the lack of the different types of fiber, which study after study have been showing is a vital component to good dietary health.

If you're eating lots of carbs via vegetables and fruits you can totally have a healthy diet.  That's kinda a no-brainer.  You said "Carbs?  no."  and "avoid carbs entirely" though.  That's extremely unhealthy advice, and would involve cutting all vegetables, fruit, and legumes out of your diet.

I think that what you mean to say is "avoid eating empty carbs".  Energy without fiber and nutrients . . . like most white breads, white rice, white pasta, most things with pumped up amounts of sugar (cakes, cookies, crackers, pretzels, etc.).  If you primarily eat fried chicken and beef jerky, cutting protein from your diet for a period of time will improve your health.  That's not because protein is bad for you, it's because you've been eating eating shit protein.  By the same token, there's absolutely nothing wrong with carbs (they're essential to a healthy diet) . . . just don't eat shit carbs.

(I'd actually argue that there's a place for a certain quantity of high glycemic index very digestible carbs in a properly designed dietary plan for an athlete . . . but that's a whole other can of worms.)

I would be careful with your convictions that carbs are necessary and without them you are "extremely unhealthy". There has been recent somewhat underground push toward zero carb - (in reality <5 g per day) so called "carnivore" diets that seem to be showing that our understanding of what is necessary in terms of micro and macro nutrients is not so crystal clear. Specifically Dr. Shawn Baker has eaten strictly beef and butter for approx. 18  months with nothing but positive effects - check out his website meatheals.com for a bunch of testimonials.

I'm not saying carbs are or are not necessary or important I just found it odd that you seem so sure of what you're saying when from what I've been seeing lately no one is entirely sure what is the ideal human diet.

Maybe look just a little further than his own website: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ6joer3raU

Wouldn't consider the values on this blood test as "nothing but positive".

[sui generis]

It's simple. Carbs? no. And it also turns out it's very, very difficult to overeat if you avoid carbs entirely.

If you avoid carbs entirely, you're going to be incredibly unhealthy.  Carbs include vegetables, fruit, and are the primary calorie source in most legumes.

Incredibly unhealthy?

I can eat vitamins or even low carb vegetables/fruits and get all the nutrients I need even if I actively avoid carbs throughout the rest of my life.

Manufactured vitamins are a (very) poor substitute for following a proper diet.  There are problems with regulation of the whole supplement industry.  There are problems with bio-availability of many of the nutrients in pill form.  There is the lack of the different types of fiber, which study after study have been showing is a vital component to good dietary health.

If you're eating lots of carbs via vegetables and fruits you can totally have a healthy diet.  That's kinda a no-brainer.  You said "Carbs?  no."  and "avoid carbs entirely" though.  That's extremely unhealthy advice, and would involve cutting all vegetables, fruit, and legumes out of your diet.

I think that what you mean to say is "avoid eating empty carbs".  Energy without fiber and nutrients . . . like most white breads, white rice, white pasta, most things with pumped up amounts of sugar (cakes, cookies, crackers, pretzels, etc.).  If you primarily eat fried chicken and beef jerky, cutting protein from your diet for a period of time will improve your health.  That's not because protein is bad for you, it's because you've been eating eating shit protein.  By the same token, there's absolutely nothing wrong with carbs (they're essential to a healthy diet) . . . just don't eat shit carbs.

(I'd actually argue that there's a place for a certain quantity of high glycemic index very digestible carbs in a properly designed dietary plan for an athlete . . . but that's a whole other can of worms.)

I would be careful with your convictions that carbs are necessary and without them you are "extremely unhealthy". There has been recent somewhat underground push toward zero carb - (in reality <5 g per day) so called "carnivore" diets that seem to be showing that our understanding of what is necessary in terms of micro and macro nutrients is not so crystal clear. Specifically Dr. Shawn Baker has eaten strictly beef and butter for approx. 18  months with nothing but positive effects - check out his website meatheals.com for a bunch of testimonials.

I'm not saying carbs are or are not necessary or important I just found it odd that you seem so sure of what you're saying when from what I've been seeing lately no one is entirely sure what is the ideal human diet.

OMG, I love beef and butter (in fact, I pretty much only eat bread as a delivery mechanism for butter), but pretty sure I would hate life if I only ate beef and butter for 18 months.  If the magic pill makes me miserable, not so sure how magic it is.  Not to mention whether it works or not.

At one point, I lost a stubborn 10 pounds on a keto diet, and I loved eating lots of meat and fat, even though I missed wine and chocolate.  Couldn't maintain it (I mean, it's unrealistic that I'm going to drink almost no wine in my life).  The 10 pounds came back, although now I've probably got only about 7+/- of those stubborn 10 pounds which I mostly attribute to my life partner having a tiny appetite.  I (almost) always take the same size serving as him and due to that I eat a decent amount less than I used to.  I guess that's sort of the French "diet" although we are mostly veg, not much beef at all.

[Nicholas Carter]

I found the examples of autistic kids to be most compelling. It’s anecdata, but my friend had similarly good results with her autistic daughter, and she tried the dietitian of desperation at the recommendation of still other parents. The implication that at least some ASDs may have a metabolic basis is fascinating.

By the by: The conventional thinking here is that ASDs don't have a metabolic causal path, but rather that the complications that lead to ASDs also cause digestive disorders, and a lot of the 'problematic' ASD behavior that you can 'treat' with a whole food diet is a stress reaction to their undiagnosed digestive disorder.
That is to say, the behaviors described as "acting autistic" are mostly the behaviors of a person with ASD under stress. If a child is eating something that they are allergic to on a regular basis, the child is under stress on a regular basis.