The fun of FU money

[itchyfeet]

Today I found out that mgt is contemplating closing our office.

My reaction was not "oh no I'm gonna lose my job" (as I would have expected), but rather "great, I'm going to take a few months off.... Maybe longer". I was surprised by my instinctive reaction. It made me think that even if I don't lose my job maybe I should resign and take that break that somewhere deep inside my conscious I know will be a great thing.

Throwing away a good job feels a bit reckless, but having someone take my job from me is lifting a great weight from me. No longer do I risk making a really bad decision to resign and travel, but instead it will be someone else's decision to thrust me into a life of freedom.

I can't claim to be FI..... Enough to live, but not live how I dream..... But a few years out of work would cause no financial stress.

FIRED would be perfect, but cashed up with FU money ain't so bad.

For the record my net worth is around 20x annual expenses.

[mpcharles]

Why don't you wait a little bit and see if they will make you redundant. You could leave with some cash. If it almost a sure thing anyway, might as well milk it for all it's worth.


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[Metric Mouse]

Congrats! FU money is such a good feeling.

[torbisen]

When you say 20x annual spending, do you then count in the value of your house? With that iam at around 14x, but too much of it in the house almost 10x, but then again its not been a bad investment because it has gained 2x annual spendings through the last 8years, and the thing with houses, they are often geared much more than stocks. And also if you want to go away for long times they can be rented out.

[itchyfeet]

Mpcharles, I am not resigning just yet. I will see how this plays out. My comment was just to say that even if they decide to keep the office open, maybe my inner self is telling me I'd be happier moving on.

It's kinda like when you can't make a decision, you toss a coin in the air and call heads you do option A, then when it lands heads you assess what your very next emotion is. Are you happy with the outcome?

Even if they do shut the office, I'll be one of the last to go. I'll have a job for the next 6 months at a minimum I would expect. There is a lot to happen to shift all the work overseas.

Torbisen, in fact I have two houses and both are currently rented out as I am working as an expat atm. We are likely to sell one or both in the coming years. When I say 20x it includes a rent estimate, or an equivalent house paid from my NW, amd then no rent in my expenses. So, yes cost of housing is considered.

To call FIRE I have decided I would want 30x so a few more years of work ahead, but no urgency. Hopefully I have a long life ahead of me. But just in case, I am not too worried about delaying FIRE by doing some things that I really want to do, now rather than later. I do this with full knowledge that I am potentially adding many years to my working life. But even then, I won't be working the 25 more years to a normal retirement age...... Maybe 5-7 years, depending on how long I don't work of course. Maybe 4 years, if I don't stop working.

[MrMoogle]

When you say 20x annual spending, do you then count in the value of your house? With that iam at around 14x, but too much of it in the house almost 10x, but then again its not been a bad investment because it has gained 2x annual spendings through the last 8years, and the thing with houses, they are often geared much more than stocks. And also if you want to go away for long times they can be rented out.

If you include the value of your house, you also need to include the (opportunity) cost of keeping money in that house.  I believe either way it should work out nearly the same. 

[redbird]

I worked for the government during 2013 when it shut down for about 2 weeks. So many of my co-workers were worried about being able to pay the bills, wondering if they should file for unemployment, etc. The stress level in the office was extremely high, where it was almost palpable. Even when we went back to work, no one knew when our next paycheck was going to come at first.

I didn't have enough money to RE at that time, but I was FI and had plenty of FU money. It was nice to not have to worry.

[LivlongnProsper]

I worked for the government during 2013 when it shut down for about 2 weeks. So many of my co-workers were worried about being able to pay the bills, wondering if they should file for unemployment, etc. The stress level in the office was extremely high, where it was almost palpable. Even when we went back to work, no one knew when our next paycheck was going to come at first.

That was the week after I started working for the government, talk about whirlwind. I saw the same thing with many people worried about bills. Some in my office did take unemployment then had to pay it back.

[DrF]

https://livingafi.com/2015/08/04/taking-a-gap-year/

doesn't seem to increase time in labor force.

[Zikoris]

Totally - having money is so fun. Two stories come to mind:

My company let go a few people over the last 6 months-ish. My thoughts about the possibility of of being next were "Cool! I'd get a bunch of severance, a mini vacation, and a change of pace!"

My boyfriend started a new job recently, and just found out that they close down for the week between Christmas and New Years. You can either take vacation/personal days during that time, or just have them unpaid. He's already booked his vacation time for an upcoming trip to Asia, so will be taking that week unpaid. His reaction? "That's great! I get a week to chill at home before we leave for Thailand!" Then we realized that a lot of people in that situation would be freaking the hell out.

It's like we live in a different world.

[Metric Mouse]

When you say 20x annual spending, do you then count in the value of your house? With that iam at around 14x, but too much of it in the house almost 10x, but then again its not been a bad investment because it has gained 2x annual spendings through the last 8years, and the thing with houses, they are often geared much more than stocks. And also if you want to go away for long times they can be rented out.

Generally it's invested assests. Since your house is not producing income at 7% above the inflation rate if you are living in it by yourself, it is generally not included in the 25X. 

[ysette9]

I can't claim to be FI..... Enough to live, but not live how I dream..... But a few years out of work would cause no financial stress.

To take this back to the (sort of) original theme, I wanted to tack on that I agree with your overall premise that having FU money reduces stress. My husband and I were talking about this just last night in fact. He shared with me that earlier in his career he approached his career development from the perspective of being afraid of losing his job. Now that we are much more secure, he feels comfortable pursuing jobs for different reasons and with less stress. For me personally I will be making a fairly big move to a different role in a new organization I don't know anything about shortly. It is somewhat intimidating thinking about leaving the comfort and safety of the nest I have spent my career in, but I find myself being lower-key about this than I would have expected. I chalk it up to realizing I am in a position of strength, and our financial position is a big part of that. Yay money in the (figurative) bank!

[torbisen]

When you say 20x annual spending, do you then count in the value of your house? With that iam at around 14x, but too much of it in the house almost 10x, but then again its not been a bad investment because it has gained 2x annual spendings through the last 8years, and the thing with houses, they are often geared much more than stocks. And also if you want to go away for long times they can be rented out.

Generally it's invested assests. Since your house is not producing income at 7% above the inflation rate if you are living in it by yourself, it is generally not included in the 25X.

That was also what i was thinking. So really, i should sell the house, move into an apartment, use less electricity and so on and invest the money in stocks, but as long as i have not quit my job, the house also works as an investment, as long as you sell it later, or will use it for renting later. I am thinking if me and my wife quit our jobs we can, if we travel for a year or two add something like 2-3000$ a month minus taxes when the house is rented out.

[ostornadoe1]

When you say 20x annual spending, do you then count in the value of your house? With that iam at around 14x, but too much of it in the house almost 10x, but then again its not been a bad investment because it has gained 2x annual spendings through the last 8years, and the thing with houses, they are often geared much more than stocks. And also if you want to go away for long times they can be rented out.

Generally it's invested assests. Since your house is not producing income at 7% above the inflation rate if you are living in it by yourself, it is generally not included in the 25X.

That was also what i was thinking. So really, i should sell the house, move into an apartment, use less electricity and so on and invest the money in stocks, but as long as i have not quit my job, the house also works as an investment, as long as you sell it later, or will use it for renting later. I am thinking if me and my wife quit our jobs we can, if we travel for a year or two add something like 2-3000$ a month minus taxes when the house is rented out.

Keep in mind that if you are traveling you will *might* need to pay a management company to take care of the place while you are gone. You can't leave the country (or be out of state) and leave your tenants to fend for themselves if the A/C unit goes out in the summer, a storm crashes a tree on the roof, etc... Of course there is always the possibility of having a handy man that you trust or a friend (need to really trust them and probably compensate them) to take care of landlord duties while you are gone. Just something to keep in mind!

[ostornadoe1]

In regards to FU money: I definitely enjoy having it!

Although I would rather not go without work because it would take longer to FIRE, it allows me to have more fun at my job without worrying so much about politics and other similar aspects of the job that I don't enjoy. Even if you're early on in your FIRE path, it still can give you a lot of peace of mind.

[MMMdude]

Ahhh yea i hear you  man. I'm at about 20X expenses now and there is some stuff at work that doesn't give me warm fuzzies, but i legit don't care.  Package me out and i'm hitting the beach for a couple months!

[Metric Mouse]

When you say 20x annual spending, do you then count in the value of your house? With that iam at around 14x, but too much of it in the house almost 10x, but then again its not been a bad investment because it has gained 2x annual spendings through the last 8years, and the thing with houses, they are often geared much more than stocks. And also if you want to go away for long times they can be rented out.

Generally it's invested assests. Since your house is not producing income at 7% above the inflation rate if you are living in it by yourself, it is generally not included in the 25X.

That was also what i was thinking. So really, i should sell the house, move into an apartment, use less electricity and so on and invest the money in stocks, but as long as i have not quit my job, the house also works as an investment, as long as you sell it later, or will use it for renting later. I am thinking if me and my wife quit our jobs we can, if we travel for a year or two add something like 2-3000$ a month minus taxes when the house is rented out.

In that case, I would take the income produced from the house and subtract that from my annual spending, and then focus on having 25X  that number invested.

Which is why I don't worry so much about my networth number; it's almost meaningless in terms of providing income after FIRE, depending on the assets one has.

[clarkfan1979]

Having more money in your bank account allows you to take more risk, which could ultimately end up with a better job and more money. If you don't have any savings, you have to play it safe and let people make decisions for you.

I have found that when I make a bold move, I get a lot of resistance.

"You are going to grad school to be a professor? No one gets tenure these days. That's risky!"

"You are buying a foreclosed home that has been empty for 2 years? That's risky!"

"You are going to rent your house out to strangers? That's risky!"

"You are moving to Hawaii? That's risky!"

"You live in Hawaii, have a tenure-track job, get 4 months of vacation and two rentals for extra income..... You're lucky!"


 

[Spiffsome]

I'm enjoying my FU money for almost the opposite reason. I was working a well-paying job when I got pushed out sideways (probably illegally) into a very different one, with repercussions that will take a few months to die down. I can either fight the move or develop a completely different skillset within the field quickly enough to keep the new job.

If I didn't have FU money right now, I'd probably be shitting myself with fear.

[Guesl982374]

Having more money in your bank account allows you to take more risk, which could ultimately end up with a better job and more money. If you don't have any savings, you have to play it safe and let people make decisions for you.

I have found that when I make a bold move, I get a lot of resistance.

"You are going to grad school to be a professor? No one gets tenure these days. That's risky!"

"You are buying a foreclosed home that has been empty for 2 years? That's risky!"

"You are going to rent your house out to strangers? That's risky!"

"You are moving to Hawaii? That's risky!"

"You live in Hawaii, have a tenure-track job, get 4 months of vacation and two rentals for extra income..... You're lucky!"

hahaha I love it.