The art of not working at work

[MandalayVA]

The amount of time many of us (myself included) spend participating in this forum during working hours is good evidence of this phenomenon.

This. I work in a clerical job that can be mind-numbingly boring and often I don't have enough work to even remotely fill the day.  MMM, Fark.com and my own writing projects save my sanity.  With the latter, it actually gives the appearance that I'm working.

[someday]

I learned this game very early on, and the rules and the levels at which you play this game may vary by your employer and your group that you work in, but for the most part, this game exists for nearly all office environment professions.

I remember when I was right out of college, working as a consultant for a prestigious firm.  My job was at 5pm to take the dinner order, pick up the dinner by 6:30, and make sure that the orders were all taken care of correctly.  After dinner, since the group was really only waiting on the boss to call it a day, we all played the game of fake busy.  In order to succeed at this game, you learn early on some of the tricks to the trade.  For example, when working in a conference room, you should always try and claim the seat facing the door.  If you claim the seat facing away from the door, you will have to try harder to play the game of fake busy since everyone coming into the conference room can see your laptop screen.

If push came to shove, I could always turn on the afterburners and power through to make a deadline.  The consulting environment is very cognizant of this "feast or famine" idea.  Some folks would blatantly play the game a little bit beyond the ethical boundaries, while others seemed clueless to the game (or maybe they were just THAT good?).

Point is - it's everywhere, it's dumb, and highly inefficient.  However, we are somewhat conditioned to "fit in" and being the guy always asking for work and outperforming colleagues hand over fist can either lead to some quick promotions, or losing the game of office politics. 

[goodlife]

I learned this game very early on, and the rules and the levels at which you play this game may vary by your employer and your group that you work in, but for the most part, this game exists for nearly all office environment professions.

I remember when I was right out of college, working as a consultant for a prestigious firm.  My job was at 5pm to take the dinner order, pick up the dinner by 6:30, and make sure that the orders were all taken care of correctly.  After dinner, since the group was really only waiting on the boss to call it a day, we all played the game of fake busy.  In order to succeed at this game, you learn early on some of the tricks to the trade.  For example, when working in a conference room, you should always try and claim the seat facing the door.  If you claim the seat facing away from the door, you will have to try harder to play the game of fake busy since everyone coming into the conference room can see your laptop screen.

If push came to shove, I could always turn on the afterburners and power through to make a deadline.  The consulting environment is very cognizant of this "feast or famine" idea.  Some folks would blatantly play the game a little bit beyond the ethical boundaries, while others seemed clueless to the game (or maybe they were just THAT good?).

Point is - it's everywhere, it's dumb, and highly inefficient.  However, we are somewhat conditioned to "fit in" and being the guy always asking for work and outperforming colleagues hand over fist can either lead to some quick promotions, or losing the game of office politics.

This basically describes investment banking to the T...minus the conference rooms. Everyone just goofs off at their own computer...6pm to midnight is the worst...everyone sitting there and either watching youtube or reading random crap on the internet. Finally the boss leaves...everyone leaves...nobody has been doing anything for how many hours...such a great use of time.

[goodlife]

I am laughing so hard at this post because it is so true. I worked making processes of a business more efficient. Tried to automate work. Turns out most people do not work very much in an office and the most successful people are the ones that can pretend to work the best.

I tried to enlighten my group with a way of saving a lot of time related to emailing around millions of versions of the same document and in the end losing all sight of it. Even though it was very easy to fix this problem...turns out nobody was interested in it. I guess they really like sending out those emails and appearing busy...and cc'ing the big boss...who I am pretty sure has an auto-delete function for those email. Oh well...here I am...it's almost 10am my time and I am posting on MMM already.

[lielec11]

I knew this was something some cube monkeys took part in, but I guess I never really thought of the extent. As an ever efficient cube monkey I am in the same boat as the 2 hrs work / 6 hours act like you're working. If someone comes over and asks for my help I gladly oblige, but I certainly don't go searching for mundane tasks. Management may see this as me being a "go getter", but more than likely they are thinking one of two things. 1) im coming for their job 2) this guy can't be that efficient, so he MUST be making mistakes and ill be sure to find one. No thanks...

I'll gladly stick to educating myself here like others have already mentioned and keep looking busy. The game goes on...  I don't know why but this thread made me think of this gem www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYu_bGbZiiQ

[goodlife]

I knew this was something some cube monkeys took part in, but I guess I never really thought of the extent. As an ever efficient cube monkey I am in the same boat as the 2 hrs work / 6 hours act like you're working. If someone comes over and asks for my help I gladly oblige, but I certainly don't go searching for mundane tasks. Management may see this as me being a "go getter", but more than likely they are thinking one of two things. 1) im coming for their job 2) this guy can't be that efficient, so he MUST be making mistakes and ill be sure to find one. No thanks...

I'll gladly stick to educating myself here like others have already mentioned and keep looking busy. The game goes on...  I don't know why but this thread made me think of this gem www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYu_bGbZiiQ

Hahahaha.....too funny....and I was watching it while simulatneously on a conference call...which was basically a replica of the video...

[golden1]

This basically describes investment banking to the T...minus the conference rooms. Everyone just goofs off at their own computer...6pm to midnight is the worst...everyone sitting there and either watching youtube or reading random crap on the internet. Finally the boss leaves...everyone leaves...nobody has been doing anything for how many hours...such a great use of time.

This cracks me up...it is like a giant game of chicken. 

[AgileTurtle]

I am laughing so hard at this post because it is so true. I worked making processes of a business more efficient. Tried to automate work. Turns out most people do not work very much in an office and the most successful people are the ones that can pretend to work the best.

I used to work in business improvement too. I remember one workplace we were trying to help, where there was so much push back on trying to improve the workflow because the boss actually liked being the last one in the office every evening. She liked being seen to be working late every night and being out after the big boss. I just shook my head and walked away from that job. I cannot understand failing to optimise your workflow and working unnecessary hours as a result.

I discoved one team was creating databases that housed data they got from another office. They "did stuff" with the data and sent it back over a FTP site. Turns out the other office was just delating the stuff they got back because they had no need for it. No one knew why they were manipulating the data and sending it back. When I pointed out to their managers that 4 people work 40 hours each on a process that goes no where they were irate. Not because of wasted years but "well what are they going to do now?" the had them keep doing the process until they found something new. Worst part was one of the guys knew what was going on and didnt care. He was ok doing 100% nonsense for 40 hours a week and acting stressed out like he cant handle anymore workload.

[GuitarStv]

In Hong Kong the 'pretend to work' culture is even more firmly entrenched.  Basically, nobody in a building can leave before the head boss guy because it looks bad . . . so 11 or 12 hour days are the norm.  3/4 of the office will be quietly playing solitaire waiting for the boss to go home (who is likely in his office playing games on his cellphone).  When we send people to work over there they go in, do their job, and leave after eight hours causing scandal.

[lielec11]

In Hong Kong the 'pretend to work' culture is even more firmly entrenched.  Basically, nobody in a building can leave before the head boss guy because it looks bad . . . so 11 or 12 hour days are the norm.  3/4 of the office will be quietly playing solitaire waiting for the boss to go home (who is likely in his office playing games on his cellphone).  When we send people to work over there they go in, do their job, and leave after eight hours causing scandal.

And I just thought they were attempting to side step the insane rush our subway commute https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4Ewf09o0t4

[Davids]

I have this same problem as well. I consider myself very efficient at my job and get things done quickly while others take longer. It also sucks because my cube is in a high traffic area so it is not as easy to simply surf the web. Many times I have to wait to get a response back from someone before I can continue along and that causes more idle time. I usually keep a "spreadsheet" on so to make it appear I am working so no one thinks I am lazy when in reality I am just very efficient. I am always happy to help others and always seeking out projects but there is a good chunk of idle time. Sometimes I also just go to the bathroom and sit on the toilet for awhile and play on my phone.

[YTProphet]

I've been thinking about this whole idea a lot lately given that I'm in a bit of a quandary. I currently make around $120K/yr and do, on the high end, about 2 hours of work a day. I ask for more work, but no one gives it to me. Moreover, my supervisor pushed for my position to be added, and he's the only one who would really know how much work I do, so I don't want to address it with anyone else in the company.

I've been approached for a new position with a company that's 3 minutes from my house (as opposed to my current position which is 40 minutes away). The salary will probably be the same or slightly higher and there will be a bigger workload with more interesting work, but I may end up working 10-11/hr days again which I'd rather not do. My current job is 9-5, $120k/yr, and five weeks vacation. Not sure that I want to give that up for something unknown even though I'm a bit bored.

Thoughts?

[Pooperman]

I've been thinking about this whole idea a lot lately given that I'm in a bit of a quandary. I currently make around $120K/yr and do, on the high end, about 2 hours of work a day. I ask for more work, but no one gives it to me. Moreover, my supervisor pushed for my position to be added, and he's the only one who would really know how much work I do, so I don't want to address it with anyone else in the company.

I've been approached for a new position with a company that's 3 minutes from my house (as opposed to my current position which is 40 minutes away). The salary will probably be the same or slightly higher and there will be a bigger workload with more interesting work, but I may end up working 10-11/hr days again which I'd rather not do. My current job is 9-5, $120k/yr, and five weeks vacation. Not sure that I want to give that up for something unknown even though I'm a bit bored.

Thoughts?

Learn new skills, do consulting/side work at work (It'll look like you're working too!)

[golden1]

My current job is 9-5, $120k/yr, and five weeks vacation.

It really depends on your personality, but I would keep that job and work on side projects whenever you can, especially with the 5 weeks vacation.  I would seriously kill for that much. 

[YTProphet]

I've been thinking about this whole idea a lot lately given that I'm in a bit of a quandary. I currently make around $120K/yr and do, on the high end, about 2 hours of work a day. I ask for more work, but no one gives it to me. Moreover, my supervisor pushed for my position to be added, and he's the only one who would really know how much work I do, so I don't want to address it with anyone else in the company.

I've been approached for a new position with a company that's 3 minutes from my house (as opposed to my current position which is 40 minutes away). The salary will probably be the same or slightly higher and there will be a bigger workload with more interesting work, but I may end up working 10-11/hr days again which I'd rather not do. My current job is 9-5, $120k/yr, and five weeks vacation. Not sure that I want to give that up for something unknown even though I'm a bit bored.

Thoughts?

Learn new skills, do consulting/side work at work (It'll look like you're working too!)

The nature of my professional expertise prohibits me from doing it for anyone else on the side. I have started a side business that's unrelated to my profession, though. It's not up and running yet, but it will be soon. :)

Also, probably worth noting that my boss is happy with my work, as are my co-workers, but my boss would be the only one in the company who knows how little I have to do. Again, though, he's the one who hired me and pushed for the position to be added, so he'd never get rid of me (1) because he likes me and (2) because it'd make him look bad.

[MillenialMustache]

Alas, this is such a problem. Part of the year I am very busy and needed, and part of the year there is literally nothing for me to do. Sigh. I have invented things to do and gotten accolades for them, but still not enough to fill the day. I have started to fill my day with other paid activities, such as teaching online.

[jba302]

I've been thinking about this whole idea a lot lately given that I'm in a bit of a quandary. I currently make around $120K/yr and do, on the high end, about 2 hours of work a day. I ask for more work, but no one gives it to me. Moreover, my supervisor pushed for my position to be added, and he's the only one who would really know how much work I do, so I don't want to address it with anyone else in the company.

I've been approached for a new position with a company that's 3 minutes from my house (as opposed to my current position which is 40 minutes away). The salary will probably be the same or slightly higher and there will be a bigger workload with more interesting work, but I may end up working 10-11/hr days again which I'd rather not do. My current job is 9-5, $120k/yr, and five weeks vacation. Not sure that I want to give that up for something unknown even though I'm a bit bored.

Thoughts?

Learn new skills, do consulting/side work at work (It'll look like you're working too!)

The nature of my professional expertise prohibits me from doing it for anyone else on the side. I have started a side business that's unrelated to my profession, though. It's not up and running yet, but it will be soon. :)

Also, probably worth noting that my boss is happy with my work, as are my co-workers, but my boss would be the only one in the company who knows how little I have to do. Again, though, he's the one who hired me and pushed for the position to be added, so he'd never get rid of me (1) because he likes me and (2) because it'd make him look bad.

In a fairly impressive display of efficiency (perhaps company time theft in retrospect), I requested work from home days in a prior job in a situation kind of like this. Then I just had a laptop VM'ed in so I would be actively available but not really working, just doing house hobby stuff. I was in a team of 12 other people that were "barely able to handle the stress" so I didn't think it would be wise to say anything.  Now my current boss doesn't give 2 bits about how my minute-to-minute productivity goes as long as the job ends up being done in time, which has been a godsend.

[Schaefer Light]

Working from home would solve just about every problem that's been discussed on this thread (from the employee's perspective, at least).

[Jomar]

The amount of time many of us (myself included) spend participating in this forum during working hours is good evidence of this phenomenon.

As I'm doing right now. Bang on.

[dd564]

A saying I like to go by is:

"Done is better than perfect."

I tried to share that with an employee of mine who spent a lot of time reviewing work before completing it.

[Pooperman]

For me, a 'super' hour (being totally focussed) is worth 2 - 3 'normal' hours. I know that a '12 hour day' is not something I will have unless technology fucks me over (it'll happen a couple times a year). I can finish 12 hours of normal work in my normal schedule. I'll just not be very happy when I go home that night. I know how to be efficient when I need to be. Thankfully my desk is in a super awesome place (back against the wall, no one behind me, no one next to me except maybe 1x per week). I will say I've learned how to run a household and work at the same time. I've got about 2-3 'super' hours of work to do each day right now. I try to cut it off at about 5 'super' hours of work (I.e. 10 normal hours). Gives me enough time to do my job while still fucking around enough to not stress too much. I know a couple people at work who are always perfectionists. They always work 10 hour days and have 'so much' to do.

Just remember the forum you're on. Most of us here are INTJ people who live efficiency. Personally I'm either focused and working or I'm not focused and not working, so i only work in 'super' hours and procrastinate the rest of the time.

[Bateaux]

Wish I had to fake work.  I run a batch process unit in a chemical plant using an Emerson DCS.  I monitor 16 screens for a 12 hour shift.  The system is poorly programed and the instrumentation has constant problems.  At times I get 100 or more alarms an hour.  My company is filled with people who do almost nothing for their pay.  My labor and the efforts of other producers pay their salary.  A few years back the Bobs showed up to do an efficiency study.  The crazy thing is, they only looked at production jobs.  They had spread sheets and stop watches.  They found very little nwed for change since our jobs are very busy.  We all were amazed that office workers were not audited in the same manner.

[Ozstache]

Wish I had to fake work.  I run a batch process unit in a chemical plant using an Emerson DCS.  I monitor 16 screens for a 12 hour shift.  The system is poorly programed and the instrumentation has constant problems.  At times I get 100 or more alarms an hour. 

That would drive me nuts. I'd either rewrite the monitoring program myself, convince management to fund the rewriting of that program if beyond my capacity/capability, or find a new job.

[firewalker]

Somehow I can't help but forsee that, despite the waste, the $100k "look busy" people will be just fine as the economy worsens while the working class will end up on the B ark.

[retired?]

Ha!  Glad to not be alone.....well, it'd be better if none had this problem.

When I was in a team that did "research", I used up free time by taking walks around the area.  I later found out that this was not unusual.

It became better when I joined a more social team.  In that case, the free time was filled with joking about, but also a lot of discussions about the market and the deals under consideration.....not grinding it out work, but valuable conversations.  It also served to create stronger connections with the immediate team and others.

Point - work (or valuable activity while in the office) does not always seem like work.  A good thing!  Can take some getting used to, but it's better than a 9-5 role where your activity is entirely prescribed and this is no leeway for creativity.

[retired?]

follow-up.  I had one mgr who religiously left at 6pm.  It was clear that he was staying to 6 rather than forcing himself to leave.

However, more recently, I had a co-worker to stayed 8-5pm.  He didn't participate in as much banter and rarely went out to lunch.  However, he always pulled his weight, got his work done, and stayed late on the rare instance that required it.

Most might be afraid to take this approach, but he never suffered, people never spoke poorly of him and in fact liked him a lot.  POINT - one can become respected by not bowing to the idea of appearing to be a super hard worker.  People were jealous that he was comfortable keeping reasonable hours.  Mgt didn't "punish" him.

A lot could be learned from him.  Takes a certain amount of confidence, maturity.....and, perhaps a little FI.

[MDM]

Wish I had to fake work.  I run a batch process unit in a chemical plant using an Emerson DCS.  I monitor 16 screens for a 12 hour shift.  The system is poorly programed and the instrumentation has constant problems.  At times I get 100 or more alarms an hour. 

That would drive me nuts. I'd either rewrite the monitoring program myself, convince management to fund the rewriting of that program if beyond my capacity/capability, or find a new job.

Call in secondcor521 & team! (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/the-art-of-not-working-at-work/msg467847/#msg467847)

Seriously, the skills to do for Bateauxdriver's system what Ozstache suggests are in short supply, particularly at the compensation level management in that industry typically assigns.  It's not easy to do it well.

[Goldielocks]

Wish I had to fake work.  I run a batch process unit in a chemical plant using an Emerson DCS.  I monitor 16 screens for a 12 hour shift.  The system is poorly programed and the instrumentation has constant problems.  At times I get 100 or more alarms an hour.  My company is filled with people who do almost nothing for their pay.  My labor and the efforts of other producers pay their salary.  A few years back the Bobs showed up to do an efficiency study.  The crazy thing is, they only looked at production jobs.  They had spread sheets and stop watches.  They found very little nwed for change since our jobs are very busy.  We all were amazed that office workers were not audited in the same manner.

Hey!  I am an acting Bob for a project right now - an electrical utility.

Just try to point out that they have 8 non-operatiosl "desk" employees (engineers, managers, for example) for every foreman and "production" employee on the operations / logistics site. (this is not even head office)  It does not go over very well!  Hits dead ears.


The good news is that healthcare tends to be a bit more receptive about this -- most healthcare employees that I talk to would rather spend 60% of their time with direct patient care, rather than 90% of time in paperwork, and even if the comments do not get acted upon quickly, you can tell that the idea mills around and eventually gets implemented in a watered down way, two years later.

Instead what for-profit businesses tend to do is a 10% "across the board" office layoff, where every team needs to cut 10%+ of people every 5-8 years, or whatever % headcount creep had occurred since the last cycle.  Some do this through attrition "freezes".   Trying to avoid this is the root cause of so many government contracts.

[Zoot Allures]

I discoved one team was creating databases that housed data they got from another office. They "did stuff" with the data and sent it back over a FTP site. Turns out the other office was just delating the stuff they got back because they had no need for it. No one knew why they were manipulating the data and sending it back. When I pointed out to their managers that 4 people work 40 hours each on a process that goes no where they were irate. Not because of wasted years but "well what are they going to do now?" the had them keep doing the process until they found something new. Worst part was one of the guys knew what was going on and didnt care. He was ok doing 100% nonsense for 40 hours a week and acting stressed out like he cant handle anymore workload.

That is some Dilbert-esque, Kafka-esque shit right there.

I've had four different positions during the seven years I've been with my organization, and each time I made a change, my motivation was the same: I wanted to feel more useful at work. This year I got a promotion and would now describe myself as uncomfortably busy most of the time, which I prefer to how I've felt in the past. I'm not a workaholic by any means, but my mood is better when I'm productive at work. In my previous positions, I invariably got bored and developed a shitty attitude as a result. Also--and this is the most dangerous thing about boredom in my opinion--I feel that my IQ drops with each hour at work I spend doing nothing. I've tried working on personal creative projects during my down time, but I can't seem to activate that part of my brain when I'm at the office.

I don't love what I do for work, nor do I personally identify with it. But I at least want to end my day feeling like I used my skills. The danger of being excessively idle at work is that your brain might get used to it.

[Spondulix]

I just had a flashback to a job I had years ago - I worked for a company who's owner who was highly ADD. He would hire me to come in extra hours, because having me around "helped him focus." I didn't do much but sit in the room with him, listen to him talk, and ask him questions when he'd get off task. So I wonder if it's a matter of perspective, sometimes... they earned a lot more money as a result of the owner finishing tasks vs what they were paying me!

[MsRichLife]

I just had a flashback to a job I had years ago - I worked for a company who's owner who was highly ADD. He would hire me to come in extra hours, because having me around "helped him focus." I didn't do much but sit in the room with him, listen to him talk, and ask him questions when he'd get off task. So I wonder if it's a matter of perspective, sometimes... they earned a lot more money as a result of the owner finishing tasks vs what they were paying me!

I had a boss like that. Extreme extrovert that need to be talking to do any thinking. He'd often buy me coffee and then we'd spend the hour or so with him talking and me asking him questions here and there. Even though we've both moved on to other jobs he'll still call me up every few months and buy me a coffee so he can work through a problem he's struggling with. I wish I could make this a full-time gig. I love listening to people talk about their problems and just ask the really obvious (to me) questions and see the lightbulb go on.

[goodlife]

I have this same problem as well. I consider myself very efficient at my job and get things done quickly while others take longer. It also sucks because my cube is in a high traffic area so it is not as easy to simply surf the web. Many times I have to wait to get a response back from someone before I can continue along and that causes more idle time. I usually keep a "spreadsheet" on so to make it appear I am working so no one thinks I am lazy when in reality I am just very efficient. I am always happy to help others and always seeking out projects but there is a good chunk of idle time. Sometimes I also just go to the bathroom and sit on the toilet for awhile and play on my phone.

This made me laugh. I had this colleague at my previous job who was always super stressed out and constantly frazzled....while really not doing anything. She sat right next to me and I noticed that whenever she went to the toilet, she would come back like 30min or 45min later. It's not possible to exit the building or go anywhere else from the toilet....she would have had to pass our section of the floor again. So I actually started to worry if she is ill or something is seriously wrong with her. So once when she went to the toilet and didn't come back, I went to the toilet as well...in the stall next to her...and I heard the i-phone clicking and game noises....so yah...she would spend like 2h a day in the toilet playing i-phone games, lol!

[Spondulix]

I wish I could make this a full-time gig. I love listening to people talk about their problems and just ask the really obvious (to me) questions and see the lightbulb go on.

Me too!

[goodlife]

Just remember the forum you're on. Most of us here are INTJ people who live efficiency.

Interesting, I never realized a lot of people here are INTJ, I guess there is something to it. I have taken that test so many times and it always comes out as either INTJ or ENTJ.

[goodlife]

I've been thinking about this whole idea a lot lately given that I'm in a bit of a quandary. I currently make around $120K/yr and do, on the high end, about 2 hours of work a day. I ask for more work, but no one gives it to me. Moreover, my supervisor pushed for my position to be added, and he's the only one who would really know how much work I do, so I don't want to address it with anyone else in the company.

I've been approached for a new position with a company that's 3 minutes from my house (as opposed to my current position which is 40 minutes away). The salary will probably be the same or slightly higher and there will be a bigger workload with more interesting work, but I may end up working 10-11/hr days again which I'd rather not do. My current job is 9-5, $120k/yr, and five weeks vacation. Not sure that I want to give that up for something unknown even though I'm a bit bored.

Thoughts?

I had a very similar problem...actually my job paid even more than $120k...but I quit. Boredom was just so untolerable to me. Yes, I am still bored in my new job too...but not as bad as the old job, that one was seriously killing me slowly. They had hired me for a newly created position, but after about 2 months I realized that there is just not enough work to go around, I was trying to get work from other people on the team, but nobody wanted to give me much. Then after another 6 months or so they announced that they just got headcount approved for yet another person and we were starting to interview people. That was the nail in the coffin so to speak, I resigned 2 months later.

Of course I found an equally paying job with much better other perks subsequently....but if you really think your current job is as good as it gets and you can tolerate it, then I guess it's fine. 5 weeks vacation is not bad too, but that's probably also negotiable...I have 32 days vacation now plus 10 public holidays. And I will take every single one of them, haha!

[AgileTurtle]

Somehow I can't help but forsee that, despite the waste, the $100k "look busy" people will be just fine as the economy worsens while the working class will end up on the B ark.

From personal experience I think you are right. When I was a process reviewer and submitted my findings I would have VP tell me that if someone is making that much they must be doing something right and their skills can be quantified. (This may be true in some cases). They would lay off the $10/hr people and try to automate their job or higher someone for $8/hr and try to make them work harder. The super funny thing was some of the really high paid people were the $10/hr people who managed to get multiple promotions because of turnover. They didnt learn any new skills and provided less value then they did when they were cheap workers. Some just sat in their office and looked stressed all day and did next to zero work. Big corporations are the funniest places ever.

[FarmerPete]

At my last job, I had enough work for 3 people easily.  My boss didn't like me, because I never made the progress he was looking for on the tasks he wanted.  I had employees constantly coming to me, because they were too incompetent to fix their own problems.  I couldn't turn them away.  When I suggested getting another person, my boss laughed.  Funny thing is, when I quit, they immediately filled the position with two employees, and have since hired several more!!!  I still think my boss was just bitter because before he was a manager, I got him in trouble when I turned in a USB flash drive I found in the parking lot with his Domain Administrator password in plain text on it to my boss.  At my job, I was real busy.  I'd goof off for maybe an hour a day, but worked the other 7 solid.  Even my goofing off would often be while I waited for things to load/compile.

So two years ago, I took a server administrator job for state government.  Worse, job, ever.  I went from making 44k to now making 66k in just two years.  I'll cap out at $81k in 27 more months.  Then it'll be annual 1-2% raises after that, assuming I don't apply for a higher level job.  If I had stayed with my old company, I would have never gotten more than the 1-2% raises again.  Over my last 3 years working there, I had gotten an $0.08 raise after I calculated CPI.  My new job has a great 401k/457 plan.  I get 17 vacation days a year and 13 sick days.  My insurance is better and costs me $1.5k less a year.  The jobs are equal distance from my house.  So what's the problem?  There is NO WORK TO DO.  We have a team of 4 people to do the work that 1 person could be bored to death doing.

Just to put this in perspective...at my last company, there were 5 network administrators who did 100% of the support for the entire companies server infrastructure.  They managed 500 servers.  They did all the backups, email, active directory, vmware, etc.  At my new job, we have a team of 5 people to support 200 servers.  BUT, every possible task that can be consolidated has been.  So there is a backup team to deal with the backups.  There is a SAN team to deal with the storage.  There is a VMWare team to handle the hosts.  There is a Symantec team to handle the antivirus.  So what do we do?  We grant temporary admin rights to the servers, occasionally reboot them, restart services, patch the servers quarterly, install a certificate here and there, and "monitor" the servers.  To put a number on it, we get on average, maybe 2 requests a day for 5 people.  All of the monitoring is automated.  I AM BORED OUT OF MY SKULL!

The problem with my current job though, is that it's comfortable, easy, and secure.  The boredom was REALLY bad when I first started.  It's less of an issue now.  You just kind of get used to it.  There are 4-5 other teams just like mine here.  They are all similarly staffed.  They all like to complain about being busy, but if you walk down the cube hall, you'll see a mix of Facebook, YouTube, forums, book reading, candy crush, etc.  When I first started, I was paranoid about people seeing my computer screen, but really, no one cares.  Even if they did, they couldn't fire you for it.  It's virtually impossible to get fired from this place.  I had a coworker showing up intoxicated and he repeatedly no-call/no-showed for months.  He then took 3 months of forced FMLA to get "cleaned up".  He missed deadlines for paperwork and whatnot.  He was eventually in jail for a month after getting his 3rd DUI.  Guess what, he's still in his cube now playing Candy Crush.  I'd say that 90% of the terminations that do happen here end up in wrongful termination suites where the fired wins.  That's why they don't try to fire anyone.

I've thought about leaving, but really, in my area, it would be hard to find a similar job making +80k.  Also, every day that I'm here, I feel like i'm getting -Experience.  It's like the desire to learn and excel is being sucked out of me.  I'm seriously a little frightened about it.

[SporeSpawn]

As a supervisor, the way I look at work is this: I pay you to fulfill a set of tasks and responsibilities. If you do so by physically staying motion every second of the eight hours you are assigned to perform that set in, then I am satisfied. If you do so by taking a coffee break at 12:30 and playing Angry Birds on your phone from 2:30 to 3:15, I am satisfied.

The very bottom line is: are you accomplishing that which you are paid to do? If you are paid to serve clients, are your clients leaving satisfied and likely to return? If you are paid to make a part, is that part finished, properly constructed, and ready to be shipped? If you are paid to make me a hamburger, is that hamburger ready to go in my hands, safe and enjoyable to eat?

I'm not worried about my employees checking their email, going for a walk, or even napping during slow hours provided that they fulfill their end of the unspoken contract (of course, that's what break rooms are for, not the floor itself). Because the contract does not stipulate "You should LOOK like you are doing the work specified to you." It says "You should DO the work that is specified to you." It's my job to ensure you have work to do. If you do that work, you have fulfilled the contract. If you do not, then you can look, act, and say you are a good worker all you want, but you are dragging my organization down. You are not working. 

[202009]

Like many of you I am in a very similar position.

I am in a mid to senior Finance role leading a team of 6 professionals in a large company.  I make ~$125k/year and the total amount of *actual* work I do is less than 2 hours a day.  There are times during the year where I work longer hours, but if I had to add up the total days where I’ve worked a full day it’s probably less than 4 weeks out of the year. 

The really strange part is that this is a repeat pattern from job to job and it has been worrying me.  I am not lazy, all my work is done on time despite being a procrastinator in some cases (especially when bored).  I meet my deadlines, I motivate my team to the best of my ability, and I get good reviews from all of my employers, which is what has allowed me to get to where I am in 6 years post undergrad.

I still struggle with understanding what is it that other people do to be so stressed or to have such a hard time keeping up, or am I not doing enough?  I don’t think I am smarter than them, I know I manage my time fairly well and am very resourceful in general, but I still don’t understand how my work is done in 20% of the time and better compared to the people I replaced.  When applying for this job I knew I was replacing someone who had worked 12-14 hour days and he burnt out and was eventually fired.  Not a job most would be willing to take, but the risk/reward for me was there especially while in my late 20’s.  The first 6 months were very tough, not because the work in itself was challenging, but because the senior management was extremely demanding and would lead with an iron fist.  After proving my abilities over time and pushing back on unreasonable deadlines and trying to shield my team from the b.s. and unnecessarily long hours I learned how to manage them and since then it has been a breeze.  So to conclude, while we can all do more at our jobs, be it process improvement, or whatever I think it comes down to how we handle stress and how well we can cope under pressure.  Those of us who work well under pressure are probably the ones that also have a ton of free time in our days.

[lielec11]

Hey!  I am an acting Bob for a project right now - an electrical utility.

Just try to point out that they have 8 non-operatiosl "desk" employees (engineers, managers, for example) for every foreman and "production" employee on the operations / logistics site. (this is not even head office)  It does not go over very well!  Hits dead ears.

As an electrical engineer I have to deal with the local utilities on occasion and it is always a nightmare. For example, in order to do a proper short circuit study I need basic information from the utility as a starting point. This is information they already have calculated and is readily available. In order to get this information, I need to first email the right person in management (phone calls never get picked up). If it's the wrong person, no one bothers to give you the courtesy of simply clicking "forward". After the right person receives the email, they then have to go to "engineering" to get the information. Again, this is readily available, but they make it a point to tell you it will take 4-6 weeks.  After engineering finally gets the info, it has to be reviewed by management and then the regional director. All for one line of text information!

[P1]

I'm pretty much Office Spacing it up at work. I have a 30k a year desk job for a small company where my future is $1 an hour raises once a year if I'm lucky. It doesn't really matter how hard I work, that's what I'm getting, and if I don't like it he can find someone that will take the same pay if not a little less and do the same thing. Probably my fault for not having more marketable skills, but at the same time it doesn't motivate me to work a ton harder. Posting this reply at work...

[umterp1999]

I feel sorry for folks in that situation, either in reality or due to their own mindset.

Never had the feeling that there was nothing to do.  Quite the opposite: there was always more doable than time to do it.  Had the good fortune to work with and for very good people for the vast majority of my career.

Getting to FI did coincide with running into a few bad apples that were spoiling things at work and made it that much easier to go from FI to FIRE.

I think some of this may have to do with how people perform their jobs.

Some people are very focused and efficient.  They grab a task and bear down on it, killing it quickly.  They tend to need far less than the "normal" amount of time to perform a task, and hence often find themselves with a lot free time on the job.  Since most employers in a traditional setting expect their employees to be sitting in the office for "x" hours per day, these folks need to find fillers (surfing the net, BSing, etc).

Others, doing the same job, looked frazzled for 12-hours per day.  Always busy, busy, busy.  Never a free moment to relax, it's just go go go.  They work long hours.  Get in early, leave late.  Yet they often get no more done than Mr. "Net Surf."  I think it's because these folks are typically NOT well focused- they are easily distracted by other "work" related items (emails, phone calls, meetings, cake parties, whatever).  They might be the type to over analyze everything and take forever to make a decision.  That can be something as simple as taking an hour to send out a simple 2-paragraph email.   They have to use just the right words- they write the email, erase it, think about it, rewrite it, edit it, then finally send it out.  In the end, that email is no better than if they had just banged it out in 5 minutes like Mr. "Net Surf."  You can imagine how inefficient these kind of folks can be preparing reports or conducing any other long term project.

The "busy busy busy" person could spend hours executing the master plan to acquire just the right donuts for the weekly staff meeting.  She'd check with everyone personally and find out what kind of donut they want and what brand they prefer.  She'd make a list and check it thrice.  It would take her 2-hours, and she'd look busy, busy, busy the entire time.  Mr. Net surf, given the same task, would call Dunkin Donuts and ask for 24-assorted donuts.  Total time: 2-minutes- leaving him plenty of time to surf the net or play.

Two different folks given the same task, with similar final results, but one is done in an instant, and the other turns the simple task into a major production.

It has nothing to do with education or intelligence.  My wife is very well educated, high experienced, and very intelligent, but she's one of those "busy busy busy" types- she just makes a mountain out of every molehill.  Frets over every minor detail.  Can't understand how "net surf" folks like myself can get so much work done and never have to work late.

So which employee is the "good" employee and which is the "bad?"  I figure if both are getting the job done for roughly the same salary, there is no "good" or "bad," just different.

This is me and my members of my department.  I tend to bang out tasks quickly.  I am efficient with emails, and phone calls.  I get right to the point.  If there is a problem, I focus on solutions.  I make decisions.  My colleagues waste time writing long emails, writing two paragraphs when two sentences suffice, using the reply all button, having to run every little thing by supervisors, and wanting to have a meeting to address every little thing.  The sheer volume of meetings they hold is mind boggling. Most of them are filled with total bullshit such as planning for meetings or discussing other meetings that they have attended. We seriously have meetings to plan meetings.  Last year I kept track of the number of hours of meetings I attended from September to the end of January, and my total was over 40 hours. A whole week's worth. Oh yea I was out 3.5 weeks on paternity leave.  When I pointed this out to my colleagues, I became labeled a malcontent in their eyes. 

Oh yea I also show up to work everyday on time, and rarely take leave.  My colleagues struggle to make it through a whole week without taking a few hours, here there.  They sign up for every single training or meeting outside of the building, then complain they can never get anything done.  And then they make snide comments to me that I leave at three every day (which is when we are allowed to go) as if I am slacking because I dont stay until 5 or 6.

Funny thing is, I have recieved several different awards,  I have nothing but outstanding reviews and all the supervisors have shared with me how much they appreciate me, and I have even been encouraged to move into management (though I have little interest because it would mean many more hours at work).

[goodlife]

It's like the desire to learn and excel is being sucked out of me.  I'm seriously a little frightened about it.

This is exactly how I feel as well. It's as if all this boredom is slowly messing up my mind or something. I used to be very interested in learning new things and being proactive, but somehow this boredom is really sucking that out of me like you said. I am not naturally lazy at all, quite the opposite, but these types of jobs I feel are really not good for one's well-being long term. It frightens me too.

[RootofGood]

I worked at the Department of Transportation. Welcome to the world of not working.  I would walk through entire floors filled with cube farms full of people.  For fun, I would count who is working.  1-2 people usually.  The others were shopping, reading, on cell phones, asleep, chatting, talking, facebook, youtube, soap opera forums, etc. 

Then there are the walkers.  I live near another DOT facility, and routinely see employees walking through my neighborhood from the DOT office.  Probably a 30+ minute loop.  They do it almost every day as I see them out walking while I'm out getting some exercise too.  They even have walking trails explicitly for this purpose at one facility.  I had to ask "what's with the stream of people heading off into the woods?".  Oh, they are walking. 

I'm as guilty as my coworkers I'll admit.  Just not much pressure to get stuff done or get it done correctly, and if you do try hard, you get push back from those saying you're working too hard and making the slackers look bad.

I recall hearing from a senior manager in another group: "Wow, I've never had anyone so detail oriented like this.  You actually follow up on to do items, create meeting minutes, set up follow ups, and push for progress each month."  This guy had been at the DOT for 30 years and I was the first guy that had done anything apparently.  I believe it.  The issue still wasn't resolved when I got fired. :)  Not my problem any more.

[Spondulix]

I still struggle with understanding what is it that other people do to be so stressed or to have such a hard time keeping up, or am I not doing enough?  I don’t think I am smarter than them, I know I manage my time fairly well and am very resourceful in general, but I still don’t understand how my work is done in 20% of the time and better compared to the people I replaced.  When applying for this job I knew I was replacing someone who had worked 12-14 hour days and he burnt out and was eventually fired.  Not a job most would be willing to take, but the risk/reward for me was there especially while in my late 20’s.  The first 6 months were very tough, not because the work in itself was challenging, but because the senior management was extremely demanding and would lead with an iron fist.

My company regularly hires temp employees to do the same job that I do. I'm very lucky to get to see how other people work (through training), and it really shocked me that the majority just don't get it! It comes so easily to me and I just assumed it was easy for other people in my field (or, some people understood it, but couldn't handle the tasks fast enough). So, I think it's like what SporeSpawn said - if you're getting the job done and don't take away management's time/attention, then they are happy. Now I just accept that I was the right fit for the job!

[Nickyd£g]

Yep, I estimate I probably do around two hours a day of actual work, but I deal with any task quickly and accurately and really don't mind net surfing, writing meal plans and budgets the rest of the time!  I remind myself being in the office means I don't spend money on heating, electricity and get access to a laptop. 

The strange thing is, people regularly tell me I get through a lot of work and in the 4 years I have been here have been promoted 4 times...

I do now get to work from home regularly and to be honest, as long as I'm logged on, I spend the day doing household chores (I put the Christmas tree up yesterday, and previously spray painted a coffee table!), watching DVDs or reading. 

I am essentially pretty lazy so when I do have work I get it done fast - but well - so I can go back to doing nothing.  And that is the reason why I wat to be FIREd.

[shelivesthedream]

I feel sorry for folks in that situation, either in reality or due to their own mindset.

Never had the feeling that there was nothing to do.  Quite the opposite: there was always more doable than time to do it.  Had the good fortune to work with and for very good people for the vast majority of my career.

Getting to FI did coincide with running into a few bad apples that were spoiling things at work and made it that much easier to go from FI to FIRE.

The "busy busy busy" person could spend hours executing the master plan to acquire just the right donuts for the weekly staff meeting.  She'd check with everyone personally and find out what kind of donut they want and what brand they prefer.  She'd make a list and check it thrice.  It would take her 2-hours, and she'd look busy, busy, busy the entire time.  Mr. Net surf, given the same task, would call Dunkin Donuts and ask for 24-assorted donuts.  Total time: 2-minutes- leaving him plenty of time to surf the net or play.

Two different folks given the same task, with similar final results, but one is done in an instant, and the other turns the simple task into a major production.

So which employee is the "good" employee and which is the "bad?"  I figure if both are getting the job done for roughly the same salary, there is no "good" or "bad," just different.

Edit: finger slipped early onto 'post'... Because I am doing this on my phone at work!

THIS. I am Mr Net-Surf but I have worked with SO many people who make a mountain out of a molehill and I DO think it makes then worse employees. They create work for everyone else by being slow and needing to check stuff all the time. They create a stressful atmosphere because they are always stressed because they create work for themselves. They also create this expectation that things take five times as long as they actually do which makes people question my results because they are fast - although I am invariably 99% right in half the time - is the extra time really worth it? It also drives me nuts to watch them be so inefficient/spend so much time chatting to coworkers when if we all buckled down and did what was necessary fast, we could go home at lunchtime. Unfortunately efficiency is not rewarded.

[Schaefer Light]

This is me and my members of my department.  I tend to bang out tasks quickly.  I am efficient with emails, and phone calls.  I get right to the point.  If there is a problem, I focus on solutions.  I make decisions.  My colleagues waste time writing long emails, writing two paragraphs when two sentences suffice, using the reply all button, having to run every little thing by supervisors, and wanting to have a meeting to address every little thing.  The sheer volume of meetings they hold is mind boggling. Most of them are filled with total bullshit such as planning for meetings or discussing other meetings that they have attended. We seriously have meetings to plan meetings.  Last year I kept track of the number of hours of meetings I attended from September to the end of January, and my total was over 40 hours. A whole week's worth. Oh yea I was out 3.5 weeks on paternity leave.  When I pointed this out to my colleagues, I became labeled a malcontent in their eyes. 

So you had 40 hours of meetings in roughly 4 months of time at your workplace.  That would be a light meeting schedule at my workplace.  I've already got 8.5 hours worth of meetings on my calendar for next week, and I'm sure it will be more like 10 or 12 when it's all said and done.  And my calendar is pretty light compared to a lot of people's.  What that tells me is those people don't have much real work to do.  If they did, they wouldn't have time for all those meetings.

[Pooperman]

In my industry, meetings are necessary (like 1 hour per week kind of thing per client). Other than that, most other meetings are pointless. We don't do pointless meetings here. It's either for client questions (i.e. THEY make more work for us which they pay for) or for project hand-off (person A is going onto another project so person B needs to get up to speed). There's always a weekly departmental meeting for managers and that kind of thing, but meetings are very rare unless you are a manager on a lot of projects (1 hour a week x 8 projects = 1 day a week). We are required to log 40 hours a week, so during the more idle times (Nov -Jan), we get lots of time to "learn" things and surf the web/post of MMM :).

[cpa cat]

I once worked at a firm where the burnout was intense. People routinely fell asleep in bathroom stalls because they were run so ragged. More than once, I walked in and found someone crying in there due to stress. I wanted to find something lower key.

But at my current job, it's the complete opposite environment. Efficiency is downright unwelcome. There's a perverse system of disincentives to work. I'm glad that I don't sit in the bathroom just to escape my desk anymore - but I could probably sit in the bathroom all day and no one would notice.

I've decided to make plans for self-employment - before my work ethic is completely destroyed and I'm sucked into a black hole of mediocrity.