the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations

[jba302]

$1/drink was my standard when I would throw away money at bars.

I thought $1 per drink was standard in a cattle-call bar. Unless I'm supposed to believe standing ass to nuts with 1000 people in a room designed to accommodate 100 is some sort of privilege that I'm unaware of.

[clarkfan1979]

I typically tip $1 per drink up to about $8 per drink. Once drinks are $8 each then I typically up it to $2 per drink. Don't burn any bridges with friends of friends. However, if a random bartender gives you a hard time about a $20% tip, then tell the to go f$*k themselves!

I bought 2 drinks at a sushi place and the total was $18.25. The bartender told me that he didn't have any change so he only gave me $1 back. I told him. "No problem. If you don't have any change, then I guess that is your tip." If he would have given me correct change I would have given him a $4 tip, instead he got .75 cents.   

[bluecheeze]

$1/drink was my standard when I would throw away money at bars.

I thought $1 per drink was standard in a cattle-call bar. Unless I'm supposed to believe standing ass to nuts with 1000 people in a room designed to accommodate 100 is some sort of privilege that I'm unaware of.

Got a good chuckle out of that.

[Goldielocks]

I think the reason why the person could have been "offended" is that they went out of their way to "hook it up" and while you appreciated it, it was not reallllly reciprocated. To be fair if it was your friend's bf I would have thought similar to the OP.

This is an interesting thought and one I'll admit I hadn't thought of.  However, here's where my morality alert starts ringing.  If I'm given a discount on service and then I'm expected to pay the person who gave me said discount even more than i otherwise would have, it's rewarding him at the expense of the business.  Another poster labeled it "quid-pro-quo", but even that's inaccurate, since that's latin for "something for something", and the bartender didn't actually give up something in the first place. IF this were the case he'd be looking for a monetary gain without giving up anything himself.

What's baffling is that the entire conversation centered around what a 'normal' tip should be for a guy off the street, not for what a house-priced special should be.
But then the whole thing just gets absurd from here - if there's a 50% happy-hour special, you're then supposed to tip double (40%), because the staff does the same amount of work as they would were the drinks full price.  And if a patron orders a $7 whisky vs a $21 whisky, his/her tip to the bartender triples even though the effort is exactly the same?  I realize this is just devolving into an argument against the practice of tipping in general, but seriously, where's the logic?

He gave up the trust of his employer that he would not cheat, and the trust of all patrons that mini tables ate assigned fairly.  Something (job in peril for cheating) for something ( money).

Even if discounting is encouraged, the quid pro quo element means he would try to attract more friends to the bar, so he can get more money.  He being a non specific bartender..

[frugalnacho]

I tried to read the thread and this happened:

[frugalnacho]

I also think this is relevant (Mr. Pink from resevoir dogs):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4sbYy0WdGQ

[MgoSam]

Yeah I normally wouldn't tip more than 20%, the exception being that my baseline is around 20% of full price (so if I get a Groupon type thing...). That said, I used to go out for drinks at a club with my cousin back when I was in college. He knew one of the bartenders who would take money for drinks and so of course he was compensated for his service. Overall it screwed the club, but the bartender made money, and we were given a cheaper rate for drinks (and he would always serve us even if we were waiting in line).

That said, it was then that I realized how much of a waste it was. Even at this rate, going out still added up to a pretty penny, and it was so dark and loud that I didn't find it all that much.

[snafuing1]

I bought 2 drinks at a sushi place and the total was $18.25. The bartender told me that he didn't have any change so he only gave me $1 back. I told him. "No problem. If you don't have any change, then I guess that is your tip." If he would have given me correct change I would have given him a $4 tip, instead he got .75 cents.

This doesn't make any sense to me. It's not the bartender's fault that he didn't have any change - that's management's poor planning to blame there. And he can't give you $2 back or the register will be short at the end of the night, which could cost him his job. If you were going to tip more than 75 cents anyway, why do you care what form you give it to him in? What would you have done in this situation?

On topic:

If someone hooks you up with a discount, it is polite but not really socially mandatory to tip back more than you usually would. It is good incentive to your friend to keep giving you that hookup though! ;) And also just kind of .... being nice to your friend who was nice to you.

It's my opinion that if you can't afford the socially customary tip, you shouldn't purchase the service. It's part of the social contract. If you don't know what the social contract is, I suggest asking the person providing you with the service.

[FarmerPete]

The reason we tip in the USA is because waiters/waitresses/bartenders couldn't make anywhere near the pay they make if they got paid by the hour.  First, their income would be taxed.  This alone would cut out a good chunk of the money they take in.  Second, if a bartender is getting $20 for 10 minutes of work, and he can work 20 hours a week, that's $124k a year in income of TIPS.  Ok, lets assume he isn't working half the time...That's STILL $62k a year!  No one should make 62k a year serving drinks PERIOD.  I promise you that if a bar owner had to pay those rates, the bartender would be lucky to make 30-40k total a year.  Same with waiters.  A friend of mine averages $13 an hour working as a waiter at a cheap diner.  I promise you that if it was up to the free market on how much he should be paid, he'd be lucky to make $10 an hour.  I love my friend, but anyone who can stand up all day, understand English, and can balance a few plates can do it.  THe idea of tipping for exceptional service is something I personally think should remain.  But as Mr. Pink said it, this automatic tipping is for the birds.

I've also never understood why the waiter gets a bigger tip if I order a steak instead of chicken.  Is it more work to carry the steak from the kitchen to my table?  Is there a complexity that I'm unaware of?  Or if I order a free water, how does my 20% tip pay for that service?  JUST CHARGE ME WHAT THE SERVICE COSTS!!!!  GAAAHHH!!!

[gimp]

I bought 2 drinks at a sushi place and the total was $18.25. The bartender told me that he didn't have any change so he only gave me $1 back. I told him. "No problem. If you don't have any change, then I guess that is your tip." If he would have given me correct change I would have given him a $4 tip, instead he got .75 cents.

This doesn't make any sense to me. It's not the bartender's fault that he didn't have any change - that's management's poor planning to blame there.

It's a pretty common maneuver to pretend not to have the right change. Like, you pay $10 for a $4.50 whatever, they give you back a 5-dollar bill and say "sorry, we don't have any singles." The hope is that you feel uncomfortable and leave your $5 as tip.

If you're getting fucked, there's often no way to blame management - crowded bar, they don't give a fuck. But if enough people piss off the bartender, the bartender makes management care. Nobody's blameless.

[snafuing1]

It's a pretty common maneuver to pretend not to have the right change. Like, you pay $10 for a $4.50 whatever, they give you back a 5-dollar bill and say "sorry, we don't have any singles." The hope is that you feel uncomfortable and leave your $5 as tip.

If you're getting fucked, there's often no way to blame management - crowded bar, they don't give a fuck. But if enough people piss off the bartender, the bartender makes management care. Nobody's blameless.

I worked in restaurants for years and never saw anyone do this intentionally - it was always "oh fuck I don't have change, and I've asked the whole waitstaff and no one will give change to me, I hope the customer doesn't get mad but I'm not going to ignore my other tables anymore looking for singles or I won't be getting any tips from anyone!"

Also lol if you think restaurant management gives a shit about the woes of their dime a dozen, high turnover tipped workers. Maybe at very high end restaurants or tiny family owned and run places, maybe.

I don't get why people who hate the tipping system go to restaurants where tipping is the standard. Quit being a complainy-pants, and either vote with your feet or play ball. I wouldn't go to a Brazilian steakhouse and get pissed that there was no vegetarian option!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[2lazy2retire]

Well, look at this way, if you'd normally tip $5 and they gave you part of your meal free to be nice, should you in addition, cut their tip?  For an example, look at groupon, they flat out tell you to tip on the pre-discount. 
Also, from someone who was in the industry the managers know we are giving things for free, that will boost our tips.  They allow it because it also gives a nice impression of the restaurant.  For example, an extra bit of avacado was $1 but if they asked nicely for it, I'd often give it to them.  The manager would see the food before it left the window with the ticket.

ok... but if I'm tipping on the full, non-discounted amount and that's somehow "cheap" - the expectation is that I should tip beyond the normal amount? 
Does the same thought apply to GroupOn discounts (serious question!) - if I get a $50 meal for $29 from a Groupon, am I supposed to leave MORE tip than what I would have paid had I not gotten the discount to 'boost tips'?  Instead of a $10 tip, do I leave one for $20?

The point he was making was that you tipped what you would have tipped anyway, despite the fact the guy just saved you $77. He could have charged you $102 and you still would have tipped him $20. He hooked you up as a friend and in his eyes you showed zero appreciation. Almost negative appreciation :P

So if my friend who works in a clothing store "hooks me up" with a new jacket which he stole from the store - should I tip him and how much?

[frugalnacho]

I believe it's customary to tip 15% of retail price for stolen merchandise. 

[2lazy2retire]

I believe it's customary to tip 15% of retail price for stolen merchandise.

But if the item retails for a $100 then I have saved $100 and should tip 50% - no?

[Bob W]

$20 is more than my entire beverage budget for an entire year.   

[frugalnacho]

I believe it's customary to tip 15% of retail price for stolen merchandise.

But if the item retails for a $100 then I have saved $100 and should tip 50% - no?

Stop sub contracting your shop lifting.  Your "friend" is just a middle man looking to profit at your expense.  Steal directly and save.

[2lazy2retire]

I believe it's customary to tip 15% of retail price for stolen merchandise.

But if the item retails for a $100 then I have saved $100 and should tip 50% - no?

Stop sub contracting your shop lifting.  Your "friend" is just a middle man looking to profit at your expense.  Steal directly and save.

Need to start a new thread - Is it ok to steal shit if it helps to be FIREd

[clarkfan1979]

I'm glad that more than a few of you think of this as stealing. This isn't anything new. However, if this person feels as though they are entitled to a larger tip because they stole from their employer that is a little different and a little off center. 

[Villanelle]

Several people in this thread have pointed out that often, this practice is sanctioned by management.  I know it's fun to accuse people of theft and indulge in sanctimony, but facts suggest there may have been nothing illegal or even frowned up on many of these cases. 

[OSUBearCub]

(From a former bartender)

If it's they type of bar where I'm popping bottles and making single liquor cocktails, I know my pay is based on hustle and quick wit. A buck a drink is absolutely fine. 

If the bar I'm behind focuses on craft cocktails with premium ingredients and more than three steps per drink, 20% is expected.  I don't have to tip-out anyone at the end of the night and get a pretty nice kickback from the servers for making all their drinks - this more than makes up for the lack of volume sales. 

If I suggested an outstanding bottle of wine that absolutely set your life twinkling and elevated your meal, get generous - there were probably only 3 bottles left in the cellar and I was smart enough to clue you in. ;-)

[r3dt4rget]

I don't tip, anywhere. I don't drink or go to bars because they are frankly pointless and nothing good comes out of that kind of activity, but I refuse to take part in some kind of secret society code which requires me to pay 10-50% extra to select service workers who are simply doing their job. The expectation of getting tips is insulting. The industry guilts you by saying, "Waiters only earn a few bucks an hour, so they need the tips to survive". In reality, waiters are required to make the equivalent of the federal minimum wage in combined wages and tips. So if they received no tips at years end, the employer has to make up the difference. So what you have is customers paying wages. It's not necessary, and it's self-serving to the business.

I like the little tip jars at coffee shops. If I feel like someone went above and beyond, I have the option to tip. But the expectation of a tip for simply doing your job is ridiculous. Why not just add 20% to the prices on the menu so at least everything is transparent?

[OSUBearCub]

I don't tip, anywhere. I don't drink or go to bars because they are frankly pointless and nothing good comes out of that kind of activity, but I refuse to take part in some kind of secret society code which requires me to pay 10-50% extra to select service workers who are simply doing their job. The expectation of getting tips is insulting. The industry guilts you by saying, "Waiters only earn a few bucks an hour, so they need the tips to survive". In reality, waiters are required to make the equivalent of the federal minimum wage in combined wages and tips. So if they received no tips at years end, the employer has to make up the difference. So what you have is customers paying wages. It's not necessary, and it's self-serving to the business.

I like the little tip jars at coffee shops. If I feel like someone went above and beyond, I have the option to tip. But the expectation of a tip for simply doing your job is ridiculous. Why not just add 20% to the prices on the menu so at least everything is transparent?

The transparency suggestion is a great one, however, you're asking an entire industry to change a fundamental policy and society to change an adopted cultural value.

If it's of value to you to be served by a restaurant instead of making the food or beverages yourself, you have every right to tip your conscience.  A zero tip is just poor taste - you had the option to not request and enjoy the service industry workers' services by staying home.  I'm not at all judging - if tipping bugs you, stay home and make yourself a great meal just the way you like it.  It's the more mustachian thing to do all around. 

Tipping is a social norm if you live in North America.  There are dozens of threads on this forum alone that give tips and suggestions around finding yourself in a bar or restaurant due to peer pressure or lack of pre-planning.  When you walk in the door of a bar or restaurant (or salon, taxi cab, bellhop desk, etc) and sit down, you've accepted that social contract and will be expected to leave a token of appreciation above and beyond the total of the check.

Back to OP's concern:
Gratis beverages are a policy that is set by the bar in order to foster regular customers.  That bartender and his girlfriend were definitely in the wrong for a couple reasons.  1. He chose to use the discount price on the entire order to impress you - the gratis program was most likely not set up to be utilized on entire checks and/or for the bartenders personal entourage.  2. Working the system to get you to kick back half of what he discounted is on the wrong side of the ethical grey area - the bar didn't set up the gratis discount to pad the bartender's pockets, it was set up as a once-in-a-while bonus for customers who regularly come in and patronize the bar.  3. Doing his job well and judiciously granting this gratis benefit is the correct long-range plan for increasing his salary - the more regulars he keeps happy, within the rules, the more he makes in a year.  4. I would suspect that if the bar found him doing this regularly, they would can him for dishonesty/stealing. 

Your tip was generous in that you tipped on the original total before discount.  Only sleazy bartenders lacking professionalism would have any fault with your generous tip.

[Prepube]

I have an honest, serious question, from one who has always lived and travelled in non-tipping cultures (i.e. not the US).

What happens if you don't? Like for example if somebody completely clueless like me drank at a bar like this, and paid their bill (and only their bill) and walked out. What exactly would happen?

Some places will put the required tip on the bill and you can be arrested for theft in some states.  But that would only be if you have a charged gratuity.

In what states would I be arrested for not leaving a tip?  Tips are gifts based on quality of service.  It's up to me, not the state.

[Gin1984]

I have an honest, serious question, from one who has always lived and travelled in non-tipping cultures (i.e. not the US).

What happens if you don't? Like for example if somebody completely clueless like me drank at a bar like this, and paid their bill (and only their bill) and walked out. What exactly would happen?

Some places will put the required tip on the bill and you can be arrested for theft in some states.  But that would only be if you have a charged gratuity.

In what states would I be arrested for not leaving a tip?  Tips are gifts based on quality of service.  It's up to me, not the state.

If it is on the menu something like you will have 18% service charge and you don't pay the 18%, in many states it is theft. 

[SingleMomDebt]

Later on my friend came up to me and in a nice-but-informative tone she said "just so that you know, if you leave that kind of tip it's borderline offensive to the bartender.  my boyfriend understands because we know you don't know any better, but the expectation is for a larger tip"

I can't imagine leaving a bigger tip than 20%. But I have more of a concern with this statement ^^^. Your friends statement sounds a bit offensive. But a few comments behind seems to convey the same feeling I have about the whole situation.

[Prepube]

I have an honest, serious question, from one who has always lived and travelled in non-tipping cultures (i.e. not the US).

What happens if you don't? Like for example if somebody completely clueless like me drank at a bar like this, and paid their bill (and only their bill) and walked out. What exactly would happen?

Some places will put the required tip on the bill and you can be arrested for theft in some states.  But that would only be if you have a charged gratuity.

In what states would I be arrested for not leaving a tip?  Tips are gifts based on quality of service.  It's up to me, not the state.

If it is on the menu something like you will have 18% service charge and you don't pay the 18%, in many states it is theft.

What states?

[Gin1984]

I have an honest, serious question, from one who has always lived and travelled in non-tipping cultures (i.e. not the US).

What happens if you don't? Like for example if somebody completely clueless like me drank at a bar like this, and paid their bill (and only their bill) and walked out. What exactly would happen?

Some places will put the required tip on the bill and you can be arrested for theft in some states.  But that would only be if you have a charged gratuity.

In what states would I be arrested for not leaving a tip?  Tips are gifts based on quality of service.  It's up to me, not the state.

If it is on the menu something like you will have 18% service charge and you don't pay the 18%, in many states it is theft.

What states?

I don't know all of them but here is an example:
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Time-In-Prison--70426052.html

[NumberJohnny5]

I have an honest, serious question, from one who has always lived and travelled in non-tipping cultures (i.e. not the US).

What happens if you don't? Like for example if somebody completely clueless like me drank at a bar like this, and paid their bill (and only their bill) and walked out. What exactly would happen?

Some places will put the required tip on the bill and you can be arrested for theft in some states.  But that would only be if you have a charged gratuity.

In what states would I be arrested for not leaving a tip?  Tips are gifts based on quality of service.  It's up to me, not the state.

Tips are not always tips. Big surprise, huh?

There are many levels of tips. There's the "true" tips, the ones where there was no contract, social or otherwise, to tip. I can't think of a good example off the top of my head, because there's already a social contract in place to tip. Then there are the tips where there's a strong social contract in place. I.e., if you don't want to tip your waiter, don't go to a restaurant with waiters. Next are the semi-mandatory tips. These are the ones that are automatically added to your bill, but you can have removed. Tips on cruise lines have transitioned to this type. The last type of tip is completely mandatory. At restaurants, you'll often see something along the lines of "Groups of six or more will be charged an 18% gratuity." Now, it irks me that a tip/gratuity can ever be mandatory. So, in those cases, I reword it internally and substitute "service charge" for "tip." Using that reasoning, if you skip out and refuse to pay a mandatory service charge, I understand how it could be considered theft.

[Jags4186]

I hate when I get the "hookup" from the bartender. Wonderful, I'm getting $8 beers for $2. Bullshit. They expect you to pay THEM the amount your saving by way of tip.  Why can't we just pay these people a fair wage and get charged a fair price.  It's not right that they make $2/hr base but it's definitely not right for them to be ripping off their employer.

Here's my question--if the minimum wage ever gets raised to a "living wage" (say $15/hr) will you still be expected to tip?  I sure as fuck won't. No kid working at Applebee's is going to be making more than me. Hah

[bb11]

I know this is an old topic, but as someone who has spent some time in the service industry, I wanted to partially rationalize the "quarters" issue. While I never begrudged someone leaving extra quarters that they'd have otherwise kept, I had to keep all my tips in my pockets. So if I end up with 30-40 quarters at the end of the night, it's pretty uncomfortable. While throwing coins back at customers is of course completely out of line, I did find tipping in just quarters to be inconsiderate.

[frugalnacho]

I know this is an old topic, but as someone who has spent some time in the service industry, I wanted to partially rationalize the "quarters" issue. While I never begrudged someone leaving extra quarters that they'd have otherwise kept, I had to keep all my tips in my pockets. So if I end up with 30-40 quarters at the end of the night, it's pretty uncomfortable. While throwing coins back at customers is of course completely out of line, I did find tipping in just quarters to be inconsiderate.

You didn't have a cash register where you could exchange quarters for bills? 

[mm1970]

And, let me add this. Would you consider tipping a waiter 50%? Probably not, under most circumstances.  I am here to tell you that waiters work a whole lot harder than bartenders. A whole heckuva lot. No matter what kind of cocktails are being made.

Ha, I tipped a waitress 50% for breakfast once, when I was eating with my dad.  He yelled at me for spending too much money - and went on about how I must feel bad about myself.

It was breakfast at the local joint.  The waitress was my sister's husband's ex-wife.  And the tip was something like $2.50, because breakfast for two was $5.00 (I think my dad just had coffee).

[nereo]

I know this is an old topic, but as someone who has spent some time in the service industry, I wanted to partially rationalize the "quarters" issue. While I never begrudged someone leaving extra quarters that they'd have otherwise kept, I had to keep all my tips in my pockets. So if I end up with 30-40 quarters at the end of the night, it's pretty uncomfortable. While throwing coins back at customers is of course completely out of line, I did find tipping in just quarters to be inconsiderate.

Funny how threads come back to the surface.
In addition to Frugalnacho's question about exchanging coins for bills, my gripe about "change being rude" is that it forces you to round up or down to the nearest dollar.  If I get a $4 domestic beer I "have" to tip $1 (25%) or not at all, when all the server did was pop the top.
I totally get that after an 8 hour shift serving hundreds of drinks there's some serious weight bringing home all those coins.  But the alternative to a customer isn't much better.

[Chris22]

Funny how threads come back to the surface.
In addition to Frugalnacho's question about exchanging coins for bills, my gripe about "change being rude" is that it forces you to round up or down to the nearest dollar.  If I get a $4 domestic beer I "have" to tip $1 (25%) or not at all, when all the server did was pop the top.

And thus the bit about change being rude.  If you're concerned about the fact that $1 on a $4 beer is 25%, and you'd prefer to tip 20% ($.80), drink at home.  Two dimes aren't going to impact you, and if they are, you can't afford that beer anyways. 

The rule I've always heard is not that change is rude, it's change that "touched your hand" is rude.  In other words, digging out $.80 to tip exactly 20%, instead of just giving a dollar.  OTOH, it's customary if you're sitting in a bar to let a small pile of change (bills and coins) accumulate in front of you as the bartender charges for your drinks, and perfectly fine to leave it (the coins) when you go as part of the tip (usually on top of the tip, not figured in as part of it.)

So you have a $2.50 beer, you give the bartender a $20 bill.  You get $17.50 back.  Then you have 2-3 more.  Now you've got a pile of bills and coins in front of you, leave the coins and tip your $1 a beer, and walk away.  Everyone is happy.

My personal rule of thumb is $1/beer, $2/simple mixed drink (rum and coke, etc) and maybe $3 if I order something high end (a glass of nice bourbon, a $12-15 drink).  If I'm drinking a long time, that will morph to 20-25% of the overall bill instead of paying per drink.  Really though, no matter where I go to eat or drink, unless I literally only order 1-2 bottles of beer, I figure my minimum tip should be $5, whether that's 20% or 80% of my overall bill.  It may be a very generous tip on a percentage basis, but on a pure dollar basis, it seems kinda rude to me to occupy someone's service for much less than that.

[otter]

The scenario that the OP described sounds wackadoodle. I really like good beer (with a strong tendency towards Belgian) and good cocktails, so I go to certain beer and cocktail bars regularly. I've always tipped $1/beer and usually $1/cocktail, though if I pay for both at once I'll often tip $3, or $4 for three (I seldom have that many.) This has never seemed unusual, as pretty much everyone else I know tips at the same level and I do not have cheap friends. Beer prices tend to be $5-8 and cocktail prices $8-11 (I live in Chicago.) I get treated well at places that I go to regularly.

[nereo]

Funny how threads come back to the surface.
In addition to Frugalnacho's question about exchanging coins for bills, my gripe about "change being rude" is that it forces you to round up or down to the nearest dollar.  If I get a $4 domestic beer I "have" to tip $1 (25%) or not at all, when all the server did was pop the top.

And thus the bit about change being rude.  If you're concerned about the fact that $1 on a $4 beer is 25%, and you'd prefer to tip 20% ($.80), drink at home.  Two dimes aren't going to impact you, and if they are, you can't afford that beer anyways. 

The rule I've always heard is not that change is rude, it's change that "touched your hand" is rude.  In other words, digging out $.80 to tip exactly 20%, instead of just giving a dollar.  OTOH, it's customary if you're sitting in a bar to let a small pile of change (bills and coins) accumulate in front of you as the bartender charges for your drinks, and perfectly fine to leave it (the coins) when you go as part of the tip (usually on top of the tip, not figured in as part of it.)

My personal rule of thumb is $1/beer, $2/simple mixed drink (rum and coke, etc) and maybe $3 if I order something high end (a glass of nice bourbon, a $12-15 drink).  If I'm drinking a long time, that will morph to 20-25% of the overall bill instead of paying per drink.  Really though, no matter where I go to eat or drink, unless I literally only order 1-2 bottles of beer, I figure my minimum tip should be $5, whether that's 20% or 80% of my overall bill.  It may be a very generous tip on a percentage basis, but on a pure dollar basis, it seems kinda rude to me to occupy someone's service for much less than that.

(shakes head in utter confusion and disbelief)
Well - you have your system and that's probably that.  I've re-read your response 3 times but I cannot accept the logic behind it being ok to leave change that's piled up in addition to your tip, but that it isn't ok to use change as a tip. About the only thing I can agree upon here is that it's uncomfortable to walk home from a shift with 2-4lbs of change in your pocket or bag.

20-25% of the total bill for drinking a long time also seems absurdly high to me, but some woudl consider me a cheap-ass-bastard for wanting to tip 15%.
That your 'minimum tip should be $5' also blew my mind.  I suspect we drink vastly different amounts, but when I go out I frequently have 1 beer or buy the pitcher to split among friends.  I'd simply never leave $10 for a $4-5 beer (since I can't include change, per your "touched-your-hand" rule). 

So you have a $2.50 beer, you give the bartender a $20 bill.  You get $17.50 back.  Then you have 2-3 more.  ....  Everyone is happy.

... and drunk.  Which might explain why everyone is happy.  Especially the staff.  Because you've just given $3 tip on $10 worth of beer and took about 60 seconds of serving-effort.

[frugalnacho]

Funny how threads come back to the surface.
In addition to Frugalnacho's question about exchanging coins for bills, my gripe about "change being rude" is that it forces you to round up or down to the nearest dollar.  If I get a $4 domestic beer I "have" to tip $1 (25%) or not at all, when all the server did was pop the top.

And thus the bit about change being rude.  If you're concerned about the fact that $1 on a $4 beer is 25%, and you'd prefer to tip 20% ($.80), drink at home.  Two dimes aren't going to impact you, and if they are, you can't afford that beer anyways. 

The rule I've always heard is not that change is rude, it's change that "touched your hand" is rude.  In other words, digging out $.80 to tip exactly 20%, instead of just giving a dollar.  OTOH, it's customary if you're sitting in a bar to let a small pile of change (bills and coins) accumulate in front of you as the bartender charges for your drinks, and perfectly fine to leave it (the coins) when you go as part of the tip (usually on top of the tip, not figured in as part of it.)

So you have a $2.50 beer, you give the bartender a $20 bill.  You get $17.50 back.  Then you have 2-3 more.  Now you've got a pile of bills and coins in front of you, leave the coins and tip your $1 a beer, and walk away.  Everyone is happy.

My personal rule of thumb is $1/beer, $2/simple mixed drink (rum and coke, etc) and maybe $3 if I order something high end (a glass of nice bourbon, a $12-15 drink).  If I'm drinking a long time, that will morph to 20-25% of the overall bill instead of paying per drink.  Really though, no matter where I go to eat or drink, unless I literally only order 1-2 bottles of beer, I figure my minimum tip should be $5, whether that's 20% or 80% of my overall bill.  It may be a very generous tip on a percentage basis, but on a pure dollar basis, it seems kinda rude to me to occupy someone's service for much less than that.

Exactly.  If you don't want to conform to every idiotic part of the status quo of our society, then STAY HOME ASSHOLE. 

[Kris]

Not too long ago I was visiting an old friend who lives in a large city.  She lives the "high income, high spending" lifestyle so common among young urban working professionals.  He live-in boyfriend is the head bartender at a place specializing in 'craft-cocktails', and during my visit we went to his bar.  It's the kind of place hipsters frequent and the drinks go for $15-18 each.  Thankfully, since my friend was dating the bartender we paid the house price of $5 each, and my friend picked up the tab.  Wanting to be generous, I insisted on covering the tip.  Had we paid full price, the drinks would have cost $102, and I left a $20 bill - a tip of 19.6%.  I thought that seemed decent.

Later on my friend came up to me and in a nice-but-informative tone she said "just so that you know, if you leave that kind of tip it's borderline offensive to the bartender.  my boyfriend understands because we know you don't know any better, but the expectation is for a larger tip"
whaaa....  I essentially tipped 20% on what the full-price would have been.  No good, I'm told.  20% should be considered the absolute bare minimum, and what you'd give for pouring a beer, not for making a 'craft cocktail' that takes so much time (about 2-3 minutes, from my observations).  So I started googling it, and there's a whole bunch of articles from lifestyle magazines that back up this crazy idea.  I keep hearing that if you want to be considered a good tipper on a craft cocktail you should leave up to 50% (!)  If you order several drinks (like for a table of 4, like our group) you should tip more because it demands more time.  These articles quote "cocktail artists" who state that they will look down on customers who leave tips of 20% or less (and don't leave loose change, i keep reading - somehow a $5 bill plus four quarters is poor manners).

The rationalization given is that 'craft-cocktails' take so much more time compared with pouring a beer or shot, and a instead of 50-70 beers/hour a bartender can only make about 15-20 craft cocktails.  But here's my problem: the coctails already cost 2-3x as much as a beer, and custom dictates you tip based on price.  Frankly, I don't care that it takes more 'skill' and training - if a bartender is averaging $3-4 per cocktail, he's pocketing over $50/hour and most likely not paying tax on it. Ironically, a line-cook preparing twice as many $30/plate meals won't earn 1/3rd of that.

Needless to say, I'm not likely to ever frequent such places.  But it's made my head spin that a large group of people have genuinely accepted this.  I should have been a bartender.

Holy crap, really?!?!?!  That is freaking unbelievable!

[Jersey Brett]

The whole tipping thing ESPECIALLY with "craft cocktails" is mind-boggling. It makes normal unexamined vast consumerism seem frugal. I used to go to these bars more than I would like to admit and owe some of my current cc debt to it. Moving out of the city and out of walking distance from fancy bars was critical to my current path.

On the plus side I met my best friends there so in lifestyle points a total win.

[Chris22]

(shakes head in utter confusion and disbelief)
Well - you have your system and that's probably that.  I've re-read your response 3 times but I cannot accept the logic behind it being ok to leave change that's piled up in addition to your tip, but that it isn't ok to use change as a tip.

Well, let's set aside the guy who tipped a dollar in quarters, that to me is a fair, if slightly odd, way to tip, because you're tipping a dollar.  The point about not using change is because it is crass to figure out a tip all the way to the penny instead of just rounding to the dollar.  So if your bill is $22.25, are you really going to tip someone $4.45, or can you spare the extra $.55 and round up to $5, ya cheap bastard?  OTOH, in that same scenario, if I've been accumulating bills and change in front of me, as is common, and I leave $5 and whatever changes happens to be there, it's not as though I've tried to whittle it down to the absolute minimum society expects me to pay, I'm saying "here's your tip, and keep whatever is left over."

That your 'minimum tip should be $5' also blew my mind.  I suspect we drink vastly different amounts, but when I go out I frequently have 1 beer or buy the pitcher to split among friends.  I'd simply never leave $10 for a $4-5 beer (since I can't include change, per your "touched-your-hand" rule).

I actually very rarely drink in bars anymore, having a kid will do that to you.  But I specifically made allowances for the "Saddle up and have the 1 beer" situation where a buck is fine, I'm talking in general I'm rarely going to tip less than $5 if I'm, say, at a diner and having a $10 meal.  Serving me alone doesn't take significantly less time than the next over with a party of 4 ordering 4x as much food.  So I consider it rude to tip only a couple bucks, I'll just leave $5 or so as a minimum because it doesn't seem fair to the wait staff.  Don't get consumed with percentages, and realize we're usually talking about an extra dollar or two here or there. 

... and drunk.  Which might explain why everyone is happy.  Especially the staff.  Because you've just given $3 tip on $10 worth of beer and took about 60 seconds of serving-effort.

Again, if you're concerned with the cost of tips, you probably should drink at home.

[2lazy2retire]

Tipping is BS end of story, my biggest gripe is Americans are extending the habit to wherever they visit f@cking up a very valid system of "pay for what you order and no more" that works for the rest of us.

[Guses]

"here's your tip, and keep whatever is left over."


Again, if you're concerned with the cost of tips, you probably should drink at home.

Ahah! I get it now, we are so caught up in tipping and conforming that the only not to look cheap anymore is to leave a tip ON TOP of a tip!

Also, I don't get the "if you are not happy, stay home" bit. I am happy to go about and enjoy services and leave the amount that I feel is right. If that happens to be 0%, well do a better job next time.

The only way to stop this practice is to prevent tipping inflation.


 

[Chris22]

Ahah! I get it now, we are so caught up in tipping and conforming that the only not to look cheap anymore is to leave a tip ON TOP of a tip!

I guess if you count not wanting $.43 of change rattling around in my pocket a "tip" then sure.

[Guses]

Ahah! I get it now, we are so caught up in tipping and conforming that the only not to look cheap anymore is to leave a tip ON TOP of a tip!

I guess if you count not wanting $.43 of change rattling around in my pocket a "tip" then sure.

I don't know what the minimum salary is in the states, but at 10$/hour, "tipping away" 43 cents is like flushing 3 minutes down the toilet. More if you calculate your real wage (taking taxes, commuting, etc into account). Definitely more than the barkeep ever took to open your beer. And that's your mini-tip on top of the bigger tip.

[CommonCents]

Funny how threads come back to the surface.
In addition to Frugalnacho's question about exchanging coins for bills, my gripe about "change being rude" is that it forces you to round up or down to the nearest dollar.  If I get a $4 domestic beer I "have" to tip $1 (25%) or not at all, when all the server did was pop the top.

And thus the bit about change being rude.  If you're concerned about the fact that $1 on a $4 beer is 25%, and you'd prefer to tip 20% ($.80), drink at home.  Two dimes aren't going to impact you, and if they are, you can't afford that beer anyways. 

The rule I've always heard is not that change is rude, it's change that "touched your hand" is rude.  In other words, digging out $.80 to tip exactly 20%, instead of just giving a dollar.  OTOH, it's customary if you're sitting in a bar to let a small pile of change (bills and coins) accumulate in front of you as the bartender charges for your drinks, and perfectly fine to leave it (the coins) when you go as part of the tip (usually on top of the tip, not figured in as part of it.)

So you have a $2.50 beer, you give the bartender a $20 bill.  You get $17.50 back.  Then you have 2-3 more.  Now you've got a pile of bills and coins in front of you, leave the coins and tip your $1 a beer, and walk away.  Everyone is happy.

My personal rule of thumb is $1/beer, $2/simple mixed drink (rum and coke, etc) and maybe $3 if I order something high end (a glass of nice bourbon, a $12-15 drink).  If I'm drinking a long time, that will morph to 20-25% of the overall bill instead of paying per drink.  Really though, no matter where I go to eat or drink, unless I literally only order 1-2 bottles of beer, I figure my minimum tip should be $5, whether that's 20% or 80% of my overall bill.  It may be a very generous tip on a percentage basis, but on a pure dollar basis, it seems kinda rude to me to occupy someone's service for much less than that.

I'm not keen on this constantly escalating percentages.  Drinks prices increase with inflation and if you are paying a tip by percentage, then the inflation is already covered!  In the time I've been eating out (~15-20 years), we've gone from 15% to 18% to now 20% as being standard.  Now you're proposing 25% rather than gasp handle money...  News flash: Handling money is part of the job.  This touching your hand rule is ridiculous, weird and not something I've ever heard before.  (Are we going to move to the Indian caste system where touching money is the lowest, and handling the dead and leather is next lowest?)

A big pocket of change sounds annoying, but it also seems like it's a fairly inevitable part of the job.  Just put a chunk of it with your purse/bag part way through the evening.  Solved.  Otherwise, I'll solve it for you by rounding down and not leaving the change as I might otherwise, now knowing a server will turn up their nose at receiving an additional 75 cents.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

And you're not "occupying" their time - again, that's their job.  If they're just getting a beer, that's about 20 seconds.  Adding time to put it into the computer, that means they could do at min, at least 60 an hour - and $45-60/hr is damn fine pay, more than I make as a government lawyer with two grad degrees!  If they're making a more complicated item, it's generally reflected in the higher price and correspondingly in the tip.

[partgypsy]

I asked my husband who works as a bartender at a place that also have signature drinks that take more time. Yes he finds it irritating when the bar is slammed and everyone in that group orders different fancy cocktails versus beers, and yes it would be nice if that those people realized that and the tip reflected the extra trouble, but all the rest that's mentioned here, he has not heard of it, and he has worked as a bartender for many year. Tipping based on percentage of the price of the drink is fine and what is expected. Giving coins as tip is more as other said, a pragmatic problem (what to do with the change) than rudeness, unless you are say giving someone a quarter for a tip and thinking you are generous.

[Jouer]

I may have said this up-thread but I'll say it again:

What happens in Canada where the lowest paper denomination is the $5?

What a load of fucking bullshit this is. Can't tip using coins? Come on. Get over yourselves. 

[ltt]

Anyone who tips 50% on a cocktail is a moron.  Even if they're desperate to impress / (get laid) they are still a moron.   Your friends should mind their own freaking business about what you tip, too.

This.  I didn't need to read any of the other posts after this one.  :)

[nereo]

Mimum salary is in the states, but at 10$/hour, "tipping away" 43 cents is like flushing 3 minutes down the toilet. More if you calculate your real wage (taking taxes, commuting, etc into account). Definitely more than the barkeep ever took to open your beer. And that's your mini-tip on top of the bigger tip.

FYI minimum wage in the US is currently $7.25/hr, although in many locations this does not apply to people who work in restaurants and receive compensation as 'tips'.   The federal government requires an hourly wage of $2.13 for people who get tips.  Many states and municipalities have laws which require much higher wages (e.g. in California the minimum wage is $9).

Most bartenders and wait staff in most areas of the country make most of their money in tips.  Mostly.

[Chris22]

Ahah! I get it now, we are so caught up in tipping and conforming that the only not to look cheap anymore is to leave a tip ON TOP of a tip!

I guess if you count not wanting $.43 of change rattling around in my pocket a "tip" then sure.

I don't know what the minimum salary is in the states, but at 10$/hour, "tipping away" 43 cents is like flushing 3 minutes down the toilet. More if you calculate your real wage (taking taxes, commuting, etc into account). Definitely more than the barkeep ever took to open your beer. And that's your mini-tip on top of the bigger tip.

I make significantly more than minimum wage.  I can afford to flush 3 minutes.

In fact, sometimes I buy drinks at the convenience store down the street, they have one of those automated things that gives change in a little cup.  When it comes out, I snag the quarters (useful in vending machines) and leave the rest.  I think I left 35 second of work in the change cup the other day.