Author Topic: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations  (Read 62144 times)

nereo

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the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« on: November 19, 2014, 12:15:46 PM »
Not too long ago I was visiting an old friend who lives in a large city.  She lives the "high income, high spending" lifestyle so common among young urban working professionals.  He live-in boyfriend is the head bartender at a place specializing in 'craft-cocktails', and during my visit we went to his bar.  It's the kind of place hipsters frequent and the drinks go for $15-18 each.  Thankfully, since my friend was dating the bartender we paid the house price of $5 each, and my friend picked up the tab.  Wanting to be generous, I insisted on covering the tip.  Had we paid full price, the drinks would have cost $102, and I left a $20 bill - a tip of 19.6%.  I thought that seemed decent.

Later on my friend came up to me and in a nice-but-informative tone she said "just so that you know, if you leave that kind of tip it's borderline offensive to the bartender.  my boyfriend understands because we know you don't know any better, but the expectation is for a larger tip"
whaaa....  I essentially tipped 20% on what the full-price would have been.  No good, I'm told.  20% should be considered the absolute bare minimum, and what you'd give for pouring a beer, not for making a 'craft cocktail' that takes so much time (about 2-3 minutes, from my observations).  So I started googling it, and there's a whole bunch of articles from lifestyle magazines that back up this crazy idea.  I keep hearing that if you want to be considered a good tipper on a craft cocktail you should leave up to 50% (!)  If you order several drinks (like for a table of 4, like our group) you should tip more because it demands more time.  These articles quote "cocktail artists" who state that they will look down on customers who leave tips of 20% or less (and don't leave loose change, i keep reading - somehow a $5 bill plus four quarters is poor manners).

The rationalization given is that 'craft-cocktails' take so much more time compared with pouring a beer or shot, and a instead of 50-70 beers/hour a bartender can only make about 15-20 craft cocktails.  But here's my problem: the coctails already cost 2-3x as much as a beer, and custom dictates you tip based on price.  Frankly, I don't care that it takes more 'skill' and training - if a bartender is averaging $3-4 per cocktail, he's pocketing over $50/hour and most likely not paying tax on it. Ironically, a line-cook preparing twice as many $30/plate meals won't earn 1/3rd of that.

Needless to say, I'm not likely to ever frequent such places.  But it's made my head spin that a large group of people have genuinely accepted this.  I should have been a bartender.

Terrestrial

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2014, 12:28:05 PM »
So I started googling it, and there's a whole bunch of articles from lifestyle magazines that back up this crazy idea.  I keep hearing that if you want to be considered a good tipper on a craft cocktail you should leave up to 50% (!)  If you order several drinks (like for a table of 4, like our group) you should tip more because it demands more time.  These articles quote "cocktail artists" who state that they will look down on customers who leave tips of 20% or less (and don't leave loose change, i keep reading - somehow a $5 bill plus four quarters is poor manners).

Reading an article that gives advice from 'craft bartenders' on the subject of tipping is borderline pointless.  Its akin to how the diamond industry came up with this 3-months for an engagement ring poppycock or how if you talk to realtor's it's ALWAYS a good time to buy a house and it's the best investment anybody ever makes.   Point being, the advice is extremely self-serving and thus of limited usefulness.  To some extent your friend is brainwashed by the same shenanigans...her boyfriend is a bartender so of course he's going to tell her that huge tips are proper form.

I wouldn't worry about it...you did fine.  20% on full price tab is about what I do and is just fine for someone that is just doing their job and not going out of their way to be above and beyond in some measurable way.  if these amazing 'artist' bartenders want to be paid more they should point the finger at management who is raking in a killing on an $18 drink that cost $1.50 each in labor and spirits to make.

If they want to 'look down' at you I say let them.  Wont be looking so far down his nose when you're early retired and he's still grinding it out behind the bar.  Frankly I think you should be commended at holding your tongue.  Faced with that nonsense I would have had a hard time holding back a backhanded jab that the 'craft' cocktails weren't that good anyway so 20% was generous.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 12:33:37 PM by Terrestrial »

senecando

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2014, 12:32:42 PM »
I worked in a crafty place where drinks were about ten bucks. Two bucks on that seems good. Maybe more if they gave you free stuff, but I still think two bucks for each drink, paid or not, makes sense, at least where I was.

There's a sort of culture of ridonkulous tipping among people in the industry, since no one wants to look cheap. I still have a bit of this, and sometimes I'll tip thirty percent, but it's a weirdness.

Also, I feel weird tipping less than five bucks. So I guess I'll tip a lot if I didn't get much.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 02:16:09 PM by senecando »

NumberCruncher

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2014, 12:56:53 PM »
I keep hearing that if you want to be considered a good tipper on a craft cocktail you should leave up to 50% (!)  If you order several drinks (like for a table of 4, like our group) you should tip more because it demands more time. 

Okay, everything you posted is insane to me, but this stood out.

wtf??  Do these people know how percentages work? How does it make sense to tip 50% on one drink, but more than 50% for multiple drinks? The time spent per drink should be about the same (depending on complexity, I guess, but that's already a part of the price).

In other news, I'm apparently in the wrong industry... O.o

Cpa Cat

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2014, 12:58:16 PM »
I think you should send the boyfriend a thank you note for being so understanding.

surfhb

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2014, 01:08:07 PM »
Pay no mind.....They'll get over the hipster thing in a couple years or so :)

nereo

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2014, 01:13:50 PM »
I think you should send the boyfriend a thank you note for being so understanding.
please tell me that's sarcasm (or hand in your MMM card)...

Louisville

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2014, 01:17:28 PM »
I'm calling BS. I was a bartender for years, and both my college aged-children and their SO's work in hipster/craft/small batch/local/expensive bar/restaurants. 50%? Bullshit. A 20% tip on a "craft", or any other, cocktail is more than adequate.

I think maybe your friend was showing off. Maybe she felt defensive that her BF is "only" a bartender and she wanted you to know that he makes big money.

Or, maybe she meant the tip should have been much bigger because you guys got the house price.

Louisville

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2014, 01:21:09 PM »
And, let me add this. Would you consider tipping a waiter 50%? Probably not, under most circumstances.  I am here to tell you that waiters work a whole lot harder than bartenders. A whole heckuva lot. No matter what kind of cocktails are being made.

Penny Lane

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2014, 01:22:16 PM »
Deargodinheaven!  Poor Nereo!!  This is an outrageous expectation entirely fabricated by the "craft cocktail industry".  Thank goodness I'm a wine drinker.  I think your tip was entirely appropriate. 

Kansas Beachbum

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2014, 01:23:18 PM »
Pfffttt....whatever.  That's why I don't go to places like that...where they want to charge $7 for an Effing PBR cause all of a sudden the hipster crowd has decided it's trendy.

nereo

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2014, 01:25:17 PM »
I keep hearing that if you want to be considered a good tipper on a craft cocktail you should leave up to 50% (!)  If you order several drinks (like for a table of 4, like our group) you should tip more because it demands more time. 

Okay, everything you posted is insane to me, but this stood out.

wtf??  Do these people know how percentages work? How does it make sense to tip 50% on one drink, but more than 50% for multiple drinks? The time spent per drink should be about the same (depending on complexity, I guess, but that's already a part of the price).

In other news, I'm apparently in the wrong industry... O.o

Sorry, I should have explained that better.  After much open discussion I was informed that 20% was the bare minimum acceptable tip - and that's for ordering a single drink and standing, apparently.  If you are occupying one of those high mini-tables and chairs you should tip me, because those could be occupied by others wanting to spend a lot of money.  Same thing if you are sitting at the bar.  If you are a group of four and you all order different drinks you should tip more, since that's a complicated order that might occupy the bartenders time for 10 full minutes.  If you talk to the bartender and ask for something off-menu you should tip more, since that involves 'creativity' and the bartender thinking for him/herself.
when I asked what they considered a 'good tipper' i was told, without hestiation, "50%".  Apparently if you tip much less than 50% you just blend in with all the other cattle/customers.

other things I "learned":
don't add change to your tip.  It's a bother
If you are a DD and order a water or coke, at least have the decency of tipping $1 (see "no change" rule) - that means on a $2.25 you need to give a 44% tip.
If you order a drink and the bartender asks "which kind of rye/gin/bourbon do you want", the absolute worst answer you can give is "I don't know/don't have a preference"
I think there were more 'education' but I can't remember the rest right now.

KBecks2

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2014, 01:33:38 PM »
Anyone who tips 50% on a cocktail is a moron.  Even if they're desperate to impress / (get laid) they are still a moron.   Your friends should mind their own freaking business about what you tip, too.

nereo

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2014, 01:34:33 PM »

Reading an article that gives advice from 'craft bartenders' on the subject of tipping is borderline pointless.  Its akin to how the diamond industry came up with this 3-months for an engagement ring poppycock or how if you talk to realtor's it's ALWAYS a good time to buy a house and it's the best investment anybody ever makes.   Point being, the advice is extremely self-serving and thus of limited usefulness.  To some extent your friend is brainwashed by the same shenanigans...her boyfriend is a bartender so of course he's going to tell her that huge tips are proper form.

Absolutely true.  What's sad/frustrating to me is that it seems to be perpetuated and accepted by many, much like the "3-months salary" recommendation for engagement rings.  Sure it's bartenders saying this, but the fact that their advice gets published in everything from WaPo to GQ seems ridiculous.  It's as if journalists asked car salesmen what people should pay for a new car and then printed their recommendation of "at least 20% over the MSRP - a car salesman does a lot of work on your behalf".  Why not interview and quote an economist* that will say "tipping is an absurd practice anyway, but if we're going to keep it around we should tip based on the time spent, not on the base price of what we are buying"

I'm paraphrasing from a freakonomics podcast

nereo

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2014, 01:35:56 PM »
Anyone who tips 50% on a cocktail is a moron.  Even if they're desperate to impress / (get laid) they are still a moron.   Your friends should mind their own freaking business about what you tip, too.
I'd go a step furhter and suggest that anyone who's not already FI and who pays $20+ for a cocktail is being very stupid.  It seems absurd on every level.

Villanelle

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2014, 01:37:42 PM »
That--all of it, including the price of those drinks!--is crazy.

That said, if I am getting a hook up from someone who works at a place, I do ip much more.  So in this specific scenario, I would have tipped more than $20.

I recently went to a fancy restaurant for a very special occasion with 2 friends. One friend knew a waiter at this restaurant, and he got us a reservation.  He gave us a round of drinks for free, plus as much wine as my two friends wanted (I was driving), a free side dish, and a free dessert. 

We left about 45% of what our bill would have been, which was still way, way, way less than it would have cost us had we paid for everything. 

He did very well by us, and as such, we wanted to thank him. 

On a related note, I adored being in Japan and not having to give a moments thought, ever, on what to tip, and it's almost (though not quite) as good in Europe. 
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 04:28:13 PM by Villanelle »

Cpa Cat

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2014, 01:39:51 PM »
I think you should send the boyfriend a thank you note for being so understanding.
please tell me that's sarcasm (or hand in your MMM card)...

Be sure to include a $20 bill. He will be taking up precious time reading your note that could have been spent reading thank you notes from appreciative hipsters.

nereo

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2014, 01:41:51 PM »
I think you should send the boyfriend a thank you note for being so understanding.
please tell me that's sarcasm (or hand in your MMM card)...

Be sure to include a $20 bill. He will be taking up precious time reading your note that could have been spent reading thank you notes from appreciative hipsters.
I hope you sent your MIL a big thank-you card for your surprise wedding

gt7152b

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2014, 01:42:05 PM »
Tipping is such a weird concept to me. I'm supposed to tip big if the server does something out of the ordinary but then I'm also supposed to tip big for ordinary service just so I build up a rapport with the server for future visits. I guess I've never been much of a regular where I saw the value in that. I don't really value extraordinary service in general. I prefer a well drink or beer over a craft cocktail anyway and if a waiter leaves my water glass empty for a few minutes it's really no big deal. My biggest confusion is needing to tip for a beer where it takes about 10sec to pull it out of the cooler and pop the top or fill a pint. If someone gave me a hard time about tipping somewhere I just wouldn't frequent the establishment anymore. I know that's tough since your friend is involved. One of the reasons I don't golf: Went golfing at some course in Myrtle Beach as part of a friend's bachelor party weekend. I started to get my (borrowed) clubs out of the car and put them in the golf cart. One of my friends stopped me because some guy was supposed to do it and earn his tip. The cart was about 5 ft away. Just needing to know about this custom pretty much excludes me from ever wanting to be part of the sport.

senecando

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NoraLenderbee

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2014, 01:54:59 PM »
I think you should send the boyfriend a thank you note for being so understanding.

And send the friend a bouquet for her stellar etiquette in calling you a cheap-ass and ignorant.

Cpa Cat

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2014, 02:02:33 PM »
I hope you sent your MIL a big thank-you card for your surprise wedding

As a matter of fact, I did!

But I didn't tip her. But she only served me normal booze, not craft cocktails, so she probably didn't deserve one.

MrsK

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socaso

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2014, 02:11:43 PM »
Here in LA craft cocktails are huge and I have several times gone to different bars with friends and 20% is the standard I see tipped, taken with a smile and a thanks by the expert cocktail craftspeople.

marty998

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2014, 02:21:08 PM »
Tipping is such a weird concept to me.

You're not the only one. It's as if the whole of America needs an extra incentive to do what ordinarily is expected.

When I was over there we had a bus driver who got lost and drove us around Orlando for half an hour. He then apologised for the detour and put an empty jar on the dashboard.

We're all tourists, so we didn't know what the jar was for. My mum asked if he needed help taking the rubbish out. When he said "no" an older lady from Japan asked if he was collecting for charity!

I think he ended up with about $3.50 from 40 bemused people. I mean, what else could we all do with our pennies?


Gone Fishing

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2014, 02:22:08 PM »
Never had a "craft" cocktail, but I have always thought tipping $1 for a $2-3 beer that took 5 seconds to pop a top on, or 15 seconds to pour from a tap was absurd.  That's why I drink at home.

rocksinmyhead

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2014, 02:33:11 PM »
Wow. That is just the weirdest. 20% of full price totally seems standard. Maybe Tulsa is just that backwoods, but we have a couple fancy pants cocktail bars here (and I have some friends in the hospitality business) and I've never heard of this concept. I also agree with whoever said that these people do not seem to understand the concept of percentages...?

I do usually tip $1 if I'm DD and just order a water or soda, though. I thought that was standard.

mak1277

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2014, 02:36:11 PM »

If you order a drink and the bartender asks "which kind of rye/gin/bourbon do you want", the absolute worst answer you can give is "I don't know/don't have a preference"


I will say that if I'm going to pay that much for a drink, I would expect to choose my brand of liquor.  And if I truly don't care, I definitely won't be spending that much on a drink.

Pigeon

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2014, 02:41:08 PM »
Never having been in a place that pushes craft cocktails, for $18/drink + 50% tip are there sexual favors involved on the part of the bartender?

austin

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2014, 02:43:54 PM »
If you can't afford the socially expected tip for a service, you can't afford the service. 50% tip for a craft cocktail sounds really high, and if that is standard I won't be getting one of those anytime soon.

LLCoolDave

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2014, 02:46:46 PM »
I am a food server in las vegas and have worked with some extremely talented bartenders. If they took 5 minutes to make a single drink they would be fired. They make their specialty syrups in batches to cut down on the time. My restaurant specialty drinks range from $16 to $25. Bartenders are legal drug dealers. They might get people laid but are not a great boon to society.

trailrated

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2014, 02:55:50 PM »
I think the reason why the person could have been "offended" is that they went out of their way to "hook it up" and while you appreciated it, it was not reallllly reciprocated. To be fair if it was your friend's bf I would have thought similar to the OP.

Let's say without the hook up your tab comes out to $102, you tip $20 for a total of $122

With your hook up you got 5 drinks for $25, you tipped $20 for a total of $45

Total savings of $77 after tips included for both. While $20 on the initial tab is generous and fine, I think there is reason to get offended if you went out of your way to shave off $77 on someone's tab and they didn't give a little extra as a "thank you".


rocklebock

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2014, 03:00:12 PM »
I live in Ground Zero for craft cocktail culture, and I'll admit I occasionally pay $12 for a drink. Everyone I know tips a buck or two a drink if ordering at the bar, or adds around 20% to the tab. I've never known a server or bartender to complain about a 20%-ish tip. That said, there are byzantine customs that people who work in the restaurant industry follow when ordering from each other, and I know sometimes those get applied to regulars who know the bartender well. If I were getting the industry hook-up I would probably tip a lot more than 20%, but that's just my vague impression of what the custom is. There's no way someone should expect you to know what the unspoken rules are.

LLCoolDave

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2014, 03:09:47 PM »
If I get the hook up, which is rare, I kick back 50% of the hookup plus what would have been the full tip. $20 was in bad taste in the OP case.

CommonCents

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2014, 03:18:32 PM »
I think the reason why the person could have been "offended" is that they went out of their way to "hook it up" and while you appreciated it, it was not reallllly reciprocated. To be fair if it was your friend's bf I would have thought similar to the OP.

Let's say without the hook up your tab comes out to $102, you tip $20 for a total of $122

With your hook up you got 5 drinks for $25, you tipped $20 for a total of $45

Total savings of $77 after tips included for both. While $20 on the initial tab is generous and fine, I think there is reason to get offended if you went out of your way to shave off $77 on someone's tab and they didn't give a little extra as a "thank you".

Yeah, I think that's really the issue but they didn't want to say so.  That said, as it was the friend's bf, I'm surprised they complained.  The other issue is that likely, the "hook up" came from effectively stealing from the bar owner.  I doubt they have permission to do these "hook ups".  There's a show out there that goes undercover at failing bars to figure out why they are failing, and a chunk of them are from this issue right here - too much free drinks and overpouring.  The owners get outraged at it.

Chuck

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2014, 03:20:44 PM »
Don't drink at bars.

Buy a Mr. Boston's Bar Guide (an antique one if you're fancy and want a cool home bar centerpiece) and then stock your own bar at home. Host gatherings at your residence. Merriment ensues, poverty does not.


Primm

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2014, 03:24:47 PM »
I have an honest, serious question, from one who has always lived and travelled in non-tipping cultures (i.e. not the US).

What happens if you don't? Like for example if somebody completely clueless like me drank at a bar like this, and paid their bill (and only their bill) and walked out. What exactly would happen?

sheepstache

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2014, 03:26:14 PM »
I feel like tipping on what would have been the full amount of the bill was smart. I'm not sure I understand tipping more for the "hook-up." It's not like the bartender ate the difference. Either he's allowed to give the house price to industry people or he was stealing from his employer. Doesn't cost him anything either way. I mean, I can see how you might want to tip someone more for risking their job, but then that seems to be outside the realm of good vs. bad taste.

But I confess I'm confused by the whole thing. In nyc we still tip a dollar a drink in most places. I can see how that disadvantages the server if the drinks take more time, but then tipping as a percentage takes care of that if the drinks are really expensive, which they are in the case of craft cocktails. I mean, they're saying the tip has to be higher because the drink is fancy, but the price of the drink is already higher because the drink is fancy. Perhaps I'm crazy but it wouldn't be beyond my expectation that bars would pay bartenders a higher base rate for these rare skills.

mak1277

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2014, 03:33:07 PM »
I have an honest, serious question, from one who has always lived and travelled in non-tipping cultures (i.e. not the US).

What happens if you don't? Like for example if somebody completely clueless like me drank at a bar like this, and paid their bill (and only their bill) and walked out. What exactly would happen?

Really nothing would *happen*.  I've heard of tip shaming on twitter/instagram, but I think that's mainly for famous people. 

Keep in mind though for a normal waiter/waitress (but probably not the "craft bartender" in this case), the server is working for an hourly rate that is likely less than minimum wage.  They're dependent on their tips to make up the difference (and more), so if you don't tip you're screwing them over pretty hard.

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2014, 03:39:11 PM »
Don't drink at bars.

Buy a Mr. Boston's Bar Guide (an antique one if you're fancy and want a cool home bar centerpiece) and then stock your own bar at home. Host gatherings at your residence. Merriment ensues, poverty does not.

But, but, but... What about your poor hipster guests that will have to figure out how much to tip (I hear the industry etiquette dictates a larger percentage of the price of the drink be given when they cost nothing)* and whether it constitutes a "hook-up"? Will someone please think of the HIPSTERS!?!?!111


* percentages are just a fancy word for money right?


</>Psychotic episode

I really despise the whole tipping culture especially when it applies to "fancy", more expensive versions of regular stuff. Why would I pay in tip for pouring a 1$ beer vs a 1000$ beer? Makes no sense....

senecando

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #40 on: November 19, 2014, 03:51:43 PM »
Now is where I brag about my delicious homemade maraschino cherries.

LLCoolDave

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2014, 03:54:51 PM »
I think I just realized the problem. Most people who do not work in the food service industry consider the discount to be the bartender being generous but people in the industry know it is a quid pro quo situation. Because the OP was not in the industry she didn't understand the relationship. The tipping they described  is still insane.

wtjbatman

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2014, 04:07:09 PM »
OMG you guys it's because they gave him $15 drinks for $5 and he still only gave the "normal" tip. It doesn't take a social genius to figure that one out. They stiffed the business to give you their fancy drinks for "cheap" (to them) and you only gave them a normalish tip. They wanted a 50% tip because they would pocket more money regardless of what they charged you, and you would still be saving money compared to buying drinks full price.

Also I live in a small midwestern town and tip 33%... because cocktails here are $3 and I give a $1 tip with every drink.

Gin1984

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2014, 04:21:50 PM »
I have an honest, serious question, from one who has always lived and travelled in non-tipping cultures (i.e. not the US).

What happens if you don't? Like for example if somebody completely clueless like me drank at a bar like this, and paid their bill (and only their bill) and walked out. What exactly would happen?
Some places will put the required tip on the bill and you can be arrested for theft in some states.  But that would only be if you have a charged gratuity.

Dr. A

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2014, 04:33:23 PM »
I have an honest, serious question, from one who has always lived and travelled in non-tipping cultures (i.e. not the US).

What happens if you don't? Like for example if somebody completely clueless like me drank at a bar like this, and paid their bill (and only their bill) and walked out. What exactly would happen?

An owner/manager may confront you to either A) find out if there was a problem so they can fix it or B) score points with their staff by sticking up for them.

nereo

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2014, 04:44:44 PM »
I think the reason why the person could have been "offended" is that they went out of their way to "hook it up" and while you appreciated it, it was not reallllly reciprocated. To be fair if it was your friend's bf I would have thought similar to the OP.

This is an interesting thought and one I'll admit I hadn't thought of.  However, here's where my morality alert starts ringing.  If I'm given a discount on service and then I'm expected to pay the person who gave me said discount even more than i otherwise would have, it's rewarding him at the expense of the business.  Another poster labeled it "quid-pro-quo", but even that's inaccurate, since that's latin for "something for something", and the bartender didn't actually give up something in the first place. IF this were the case he'd be looking for a monetary gain without giving up anything himself.

What's baffling is that the entire conversation centered around what a 'normal' tip should be for a guy off the street, not for what a house-priced special should be.
But then the whole thing just gets absurd from here - if there's a 50% happy-hour special, you're then supposed to tip double (40%), because the staff does the same amount of work as they would were the drinks full price.  And if a patron orders a $7 whisky vs a $21 whisky, his/her tip to the bartender triples even though the effort is exactly the same?  I realize this is just devolving into an argument against the practice of tipping in general, but seriously, where's the logic?

xenon5

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2014, 04:49:56 PM »
oh yeah, I avoid drinking at bars as much as possible, and always go for the cheapest option.  The cost of the drink and the tipping expectation isn't in line with what I think the service is really worth.  I once gave a $1 tip on a $4 beer in quarters.  The bartender threw them back at me and yelled "Do I look homeless? get the f*ck out of here!"

Well buddy, that happened to be my first drink on my 21st birthday and I had a gaggle of 20 with me... so we left promptly and I wrote the manager a letter explaining what happened.  He gave me a $200 credit for next time.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 04:55:23 PM by xenon5 »

nereo

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2014, 04:54:57 PM »
oh yeah, I avoid drinking at bars as much as possible, and always go for the cheapest option.  The cost of the drink and the tipping expectation isn't in line with what I think the service is really worth.  I once gave a $1 tip on a $4 beer in quarters.  The bartender threw them back at me and yelled "Do I look homeless? get the f*ck out of here!"

Well buddy, that happened to be my first drink on my 21st birthday and I had a gaggle of 20 with me... so we left promptly and I wrote the manager a letter explaining what happened.  He gave me a $200 credit for next time.
wow.  kudos to you for actually writing the manager, and to him/her for trying to make it right with credit.  The whole "no change" thing seems weird to me, especially since i keeps popping up in other articles.  Ok, I get that a sack full of change at the end of the day can be heavy to carry around, but money is money.

Gin1984

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2014, 04:59:00 PM »
I think the reason why the person could have been "offended" is that they went out of their way to "hook it up" and while you appreciated it, it was not reallllly reciprocated. To be fair if it was your friend's bf I would have thought similar to the OP.

This is an interesting thought and one I'll admit I hadn't thought of.  However, here's where my morality alert starts ringing.  If I'm given a discount on service and then I'm expected to pay the person who gave me said discount even more than i otherwise would have, it's rewarding him at the expense of the business.  Another poster labeled it "quid-pro-quo", but even that's inaccurate, since that's latin for "something for something", and the bartender didn't actually give up something in the first place. IF this were the case he'd be looking for a monetary gain without giving up anything himself.

What's baffling is that the entire conversation centered around what a 'normal' tip should be for a guy off the street, not for what a house-priced special should be.
But then the whole thing just gets absurd from here - if there's a 50% happy-hour special, you're then supposed to tip double (40%), because the staff does the same amount of work as they would were the drinks full price.  And if a patron orders a $7 whisky vs a $21 whisky, his/her tip to the bartender triples even though the effort is exactly the same?  I realize this is just devolving into an argument against the practice of tipping in general, but seriously, where's the logic?
Well, look at this way, if you'd normally tip $5 and they gave you part of your meal free to be nice, should you in addition, cut their tip?  For an example, look at groupon, they flat out tell you to tip on the pre-discount. 
Also, from someone who was in the industry the managers know we are giving things for free, that will boost our tips.  They allow it because it also gives a nice impression of the restaurant.  For example, an extra bit of avacado was $1 but if they asked nicely for it, I'd often give it to them.  The manager would see the food before it left the window with the ticket.   

randommadness

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Re: the absurdity of 'craft-cocktail' tipping expectations
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2014, 05:02:36 PM »
If I get the hook up, which is rare, I kick back 50% of the hookup plus what would have been the full tip. $20 was in bad taste in the OP case.

For a pretty hefty food hook-up once we tipped up to what the bill would have been, without a tip.