Author Topic: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER  (Read 10924 times)

Bearded Man

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The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« on: October 13, 2015, 09:24:29 AM »
Housing can be the make or break item for ER. Sure, you may have a paid off place to live, or a cheap place to live that you OWN, but neighbors and neighborhoods can change over time. Assuming quality of life is important to you, how do you plan to deal with this if and when it happens?

Example: My first house I've owned for 5 years now, and the renter behind me changed within 6 months of when I bought the place. Much preferred the old neighbor. Then both of the houses on either side of me foreclosed and have new owners. One of them is a live in flipper, and he now has the place for sale. Basically, the only neighbor still there are the two houses acrossed the street. Heck, even one of the houses next to them the people are about to move on apparently, and they've lived there just a tad longer than I've owned the house I own acrossed the street from them.

Same thing with one of my other rentals, formerly a primary residence, and may be again soon. House acrossed the street was a rental but the owner sold it. Then the house next to me got foreclosed on, and a new neighbor moved in From what I can tell, they are a better neighbor than the neighbor I had before, other than the fact that they are a renter (previous owner was a hoarder with an RV and Semi Truck right at the property line) by my driveway. Then I found out a couple months ago the neighbor two houses down from me who used to have a loud party every summer sold his house and moved after what looks like maybe 5 years or so there, thank goodness.

Point is, sometimes the neighborhood improves, sometimes it doesn't and you never know what you're going to get. I suppose in my case, I can shuffle amongst each of my houses if I get a bad neighbor at one, and wait for them to move on, etc. In my cases above, my neighbors seem to have overall improved. Not to say there isn't still a crummy neighbor nearby, but better than before.

Good thing is, it doesn't appear most people live anywhere for more than a few years, so eventually they will all move on. With a long term outlook, it could be just a matter of waiting them out, or working with code enforcement to keep them in check, etc.

The_path_less_taken

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2015, 09:32:18 AM »
My solution was to buy 15+ acres outside of town. For the most part, I don't see the neighbors at all.

In town, I'd go with fencing/trees to make the same thing happen. Even in a really tight lot, I'd have a fence, then build up a planting area next to it with tall trees or at least arborvitae.

The one neighbor I didn't particularly care to see was just visible from the corner of my living room, until I put a 10x10 dog kennel in that sight line: so no longer see them again.

Bearded Man

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2015, 09:37:18 AM »
My solution was to buy 15+ acres outside of town. For the most part, I don't see the neighbors at all.

In town, I'd go with fencing/trees to make the same thing happen. Even in a really tight lot, I'd have a fence, then build up a planting area next to it with tall trees or at least arborvitae.

The one neighbor I didn't particularly care to see was just visible from the corner of my living room, until I put a 10x10 dog kennel in that sight line: so no longer see them again.

Having live on acreage growing up, (10 acres), we had issues with neighbors all the time. Threats, etc. All over the ability to use the road to get to our driveway. It was a public easement.

Also, I've seen a few posts on other forums where people who lived in dead silence in the country for years ended up having a freeway or some other industrial thing end up intruding into their sanctuary.

Still, less likely to have issues with noise living out there than in the city, but then again, moving acreage to acreage can be even more expensive if you DO have to move.

Gumbo1978

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2015, 09:38:54 AM »
Hard to avoid unless you are willing to buy property and move outside a neighborhood.  For all you know, you could sell, move, and end up with terrible neighbors.  People don't stick around in houses much anymore.  Now you have a "starter home", "family home", "kids are off to college dream home", "retirement home", "nursing home".  We're original owners in our neighborhood (11 years) and much has changed.  We are surrounded by renters at times (some good, some bad).  I guess there is a point for everyone where the situation is bad enough to move.  We are fortunate not to have hit that point yet.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2015, 09:41:56 AM »
I don't think it's something you can predict or control, so like any other aspect of ER: you hope for the best, you make sure you have reasonable insurance coverage to prevent total loss, and you know when to trade money for life satisfaction.

bogart

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2015, 09:56:44 AM »
My solution was to buy 15+ acres outside of town. For the most part, I don't see the neighbors at all.

But can it be a "forever home" if it requires that you be able to drive a car or ride a bike to get groceries?  Not based on what I understand this to mean/require...

Bearded Man

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2015, 10:00:08 AM »
Hard to avoid unless you are willing to buy property and move outside a neighborhood.  For all you know, you could sell, move, and end up with terrible neighbors.  People don't stick around in houses much anymore.  Now you have a "starter home", "family home", "kids are off to college dream home", "retirement home", "nursing home".  We're original owners in our neighborhood (11 years) and much has changed.  We are surrounded by renters at times (some good, some bad).  I guess there is a point for everyone where the situation is bad enough to move.  We are fortunate not to have hit that point yet.

My last house was in a neighborhood with a huge number of rentals. I wonder if this is better than owners. Rentals typically need licensing, and you can get the city to come down on them for bad tenants. I've done it before. Also, renters move on more frequently than owners do. Although renters are typically more obnoxious than owners, at least they move on quicker. Basically, with renters, you know it's really temporary, so if you get a bad neighbor in a rental, 2-4 years they're gone. Not always but typically.

I think if it came down to it for me, moving to the middle of nowhere would be good, especially if super old like 50 :-)

Mr. Green

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2015, 10:34:34 AM »
In an urban setting it's a crapshoot. Neighbors move and you never know who the new ones will be. Even moving out of town onto acreage doesn't eliminate the possibility of problems. Your next door neighbor with acreage could decide he wants to run dirt bikes all day long. The only solution that practically eliminates all of that is big acreage, like 100+ acres.

If I were looking to stay in an urban setting and own a place I would look for value. If the place is a good value then it's likely you wouldn't have a problem selling should you decide to move, but there are always risks there. Perhaps the better scenario is to rent so that you're never tied down. A lot of it comes down to tolerance. Also, you'd be surprised how getting to know your neighbors and being friendly may ultimately give you a little sway over them to curtail some of the things you don't like.

Argyle

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2015, 10:46:33 AM »
In my experience, that's the way it goes.

One advantage of having renters as neighbors is that they're less likely to be allowed to have dogs, which makes it less likely that one of them is going to leave their dog alone all day to bark and bark and bark and bark and bark...

spokey doke

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2015, 11:03:23 AM »
Flexibility is one of the key tenets of MMM, so either adapting or being open to moving are flexible responses...a key financial hitch is if your moving options involve much higher costs...which creates a whole other sense of 'forever home' - as one you are stuck in.  Some extra padding in net worth for living in a really LCOLA seems prudent if you can't make peace with what you have.

BeanCounter

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2015, 11:30:17 AM »
 This has easily been the single biggest issue we have had with FIRE. We were living in a 1,200 sf house, in a fairly urban neighborhood. Lots of perks for the location as far as being close to everything, walkable/bikable area. BUT, the neighboring houses were really bringing down our house. Quite few of them were rentals, others were owned by elderly people. Not sure if these owners didn't care, or just didn't have the money, but they weren't taking care of their homes. There also weren't enough kids out and about for my kids to play with. So while we loved the size of our home, and our mortgage (at $100k left on $150k) we decided to move on.
 The problem is, if you want to get into a home in one of the more desired areas- you're looking talking about at least $250k properties. We love our new neighborhood. It's full of families with kids and people who plan to have this as their "forever home", and it shows in the way they care for their properties. But we added another $100k in mortgage and another 1,000 sf of house we really didn't need. And it will set us back on our FIRE date.
Now I guess we could have moved further out, but we would have had issues with the schools and we would have had to drive a lot more. So as I see it, until we convert more people to minimalism and mustachianism this will be a significant problems for families trying to FIRE.

lukebuz

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2015, 11:44:17 AM »
Trade money for what is really important in life.  That is what it all boils down to.
I just did.  Locked in a $40,000 loss when entering a contract with my old house, but don't regret it for a second.

Rosy

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2015, 01:42:30 PM »
You can't predict if a neighborhood suddenly goes south or if one day the neighbor from hell will move in next door threatening you on your own doorstep or if someone will build a Walmart across the street.

Our neighborhood is hard to describe, it is redneck, with million dollar homes and horse ranches next to $120K bungalows and three story houses on huge lots going for $500K, old apartment complexes (well maintained) and brand new snazzy looking condos. The trailer parks are disappearing or are as neat as a pin with white fences and a pool.

Despite all that we are in a Metro area, the beaches are only 30 minutes away and we live in tourist mecca with all that entails. Not to mention four hospitals, shopping galore and at least ten banks within 3 miles from our house. I can be at the airport in 30 minutes on a direct flight to Europe or China or take a class at the Community College or garden on our one acre property.

While it has everything anyone could wish for, it is a strangely disconnected private neighborhood. In 15 years, I have not been invited by a single neighbor, we only say hello to one neighbor, but we talk across the fence with the 95 yr old lady next door. No one says a word when we have one of our big garden parties...

Ours is a small bungalow and the house Mr. R. grew up in, so there is no need to move elsewhere, but I couldn't feel any more isolated if I lived on the moon.
The only two things I truly like about it are the strategic location and the privacy of our one acre garden.


BeanCounter

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2015, 02:18:21 PM »
Trade money for what is really important in life.  That is what it all boils down to.
I just did.  Locked in a $40,000 loss when entering a contract with my old house, but don't regret it for a second.
I appreciate this. Our old place in the less desirable neighborhood is still for sale. We're probably going to have to take a considerable loss. And I feel guilty about buying such a large expensive home. But when my kids are running up and down the street with neighborhood kids playing basket ball, nerf gun battles, trips to the swim club and tennis it really makes us feel good. I hope its worth working the extra years to FIRE.

Jack

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2015, 02:41:18 PM »
You can't predict if a neighborhood suddenly goes south or if one day the neighbor from hell will move in next door threatening you on your own doorstep or if someone will build a Walmart across the street.

Our neighborhood is hard to describe, it is redneck, with million dollar homes and horse ranches next to $120K bungalows and three story houses on huge lots going for $500K, old apartment complexes (well maintained) and brand new snazzy looking condos. The trailer parks are disappearing or are as neat as a pin with white fences and a pool.

Despite all that we are in a Metro area, the beaches are only 30 minutes away and we live in tourist mecca with all that entails. Not to mention four hospitals, shopping galore and at least ten banks within 3 miles from our house. I can be at the airport in 30 minutes on a direct flight to Europe or China or take a class at the Community College or garden on our one acre property.

While it has everything anyone could wish for, it is a strangely disconnected private neighborhood. In 15 years, I have not been invited by a single neighbor, we only say hello to one neighbor, but we talk across the fence with the 95 yr old lady next door. No one says a word when we have one of our big garden parties...

Ours is a small bungalow and the house Mr. R. grew up in, so there is no need to move elsewhere, but I couldn't feel any more isolated if I lived on the moon.
The only two things I truly like about it are the strategic location and the privacy of our one acre garden.

Ah, so that's what Houston is like, huh?

rocketpj

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2015, 03:29:23 PM »
We bought our house a few doors down from the older kid's best friend - one of many aspects of the neighbourhood we loved (beaches being another, and quiet streets).  Next door was some teenagers on one side and a crusty old greek couple on the other side (old world greek), across the street was a rundown vacant house and a small forest. 

Fast forward a year and bff is in a family split. Still best friends, but now a drive away instead of running wild in the neighbourhood.  Fast forward 4 years and the teens are gone, replaced by 2 great kids that play with ours all the time.  The timeless old greeks are divorced (!!) after 60 years of marriage and sold to ??, the dump across the street has been bought and is going through a major positive reno.

You cannot predict the people.  But the beaches are the same - on a hot summer day I walk there in my barefeet, it's all of 150 feet to one beach and 400 feet to another (which is our favourite).  We go every day in the summer.  The library is a 10 minute walk away, it's a nice 5k ride to the ferry for my commute. 

So pick a place with good geography.  Avoid obvious red flags when buying or picking a house (i.e. the neighbours with cars on blocks and white power flags or whatever), but pick the things you like and go with it.

BlueMR2

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2015, 10:04:50 AM »
Yeah, you never know.  I like all my neighbors, BUT, one of them just bought one of those monster assault dogs.  That thing is a vicious beast, charges the fence even at people a couple houses down the street!  I'm afraid one of these days he'll decide to come over the fence (he's started to climb it a couple times when I was watching) and will kill someone.  I make a point to carry a weapon whenever I'm in the yard now in case he chooses me...

zephyr911

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2015, 10:14:01 AM »
To me, having spent most of my adult life multiple states away from my family and missing them more all the time, I feel like the ultimate determinant of QOL in FIRE will be access to them. I don't know if we'll ever try to declare a "forever" home. We plan on finding a nice, low-maintenance place in biking and hopefully walking distance, watch our nephews and nieces grow up, and maybe acquire our own metaspawn. If it goes to shit, we'll suck it up or move to a nicer spot on the other side of theirs. If we really get rich, maybe we'll upgrade. If they leave, maybe we will too.

In these scenarios where a neighborhood takes a really unexpected turn for the worse, I picture FI serving exactly the same purpose it does with a shitty job: don't like it, leave, and damn the cost. So be it. Unless and until I'm so old and frail that moving is impossible, in which case I'd probably be in a cab to a nursing home anyway.

fiveoh

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2015, 10:22:18 AM »
This has easily been the single biggest issue we have had with FIRE. We were living in a 1,200 sf house, in a fairly urban neighborhood. Lots of perks for the location as far as being close to everything, walkable/bikable area. BUT, the neighboring houses were really bringing down our house. Quite few of them were rentals, others were owned by elderly people. Not sure if these owners didn't care, or just didn't have the money, but they weren't taking care of their homes. There also weren't enough kids out and about for my kids to play with. So while we loved the size of our home, and our mortgage (at $100k left on $150k) we decided to move on.
 The problem is, if you want to get into a home in one of the more desired areas- you're looking talking about at least $250k properties. We love our new neighborhood. It's full of families with kids and people who plan to have this as their "forever home", and it shows in the way they care for their properties. But we added another $100k in mortgage and another 1,000 sf of house we really didn't need. And it will set us back on our FIRE date.
Now I guess we could have moved further out, but we would have had issues with the schools and we would have had to drive a lot more. So as I see it, until we convert more people to minimalism and mustachianism this will be a significant problems for families trying to FIRE.

Exact situation i'm dealing with/considering right now.  Any regrets on moving to the more expenisve place or would you do it again?

clarkfan1979

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2015, 10:38:33 AM »
I lived in Florida neighborhood in which most residents were retired. I worked at a growing University and many college students moved into the neighborhood. I felt bad for the retired residents because many had to move because the neighborhood was no longer conducive to their retirement lifestyle. I didn't feel bad for the idiots that were trying to stop college students from living in their neighborhood. Their grass roots campaign to try to convince landlords to illegally discriminate against college students. It didn't work.

BeanCounter

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2015, 11:28:22 AM »
This has easily been the single biggest issue we have had with FIRE. We were living in a 1,200 sf house, in a fairly urban neighborhood. Lots of perks for the location as far as being close to everything, walkable/bikable area. BUT, the neighboring houses were really bringing down our house. Quite few of them were rentals, others were owned by elderly people. Not sure if these owners didn't care, or just didn't have the money, but they weren't taking care of their homes. There also weren't enough kids out and about for my kids to play with. So while we loved the size of our home, and our mortgage (at $100k left on $150k) we decided to move on.
 The problem is, if you want to get into a home in one of the more desired areas- you're looking talking about at least $250k properties. We love our new neighborhood. It's full of families with kids and people who plan to have this as their "forever home", and it shows in the way they care for their properties. But we added another $100k in mortgage and another 1,000 sf of house we really didn't need. And it will set us back on our FIRE date.
Now I guess we could have moved further out, but we would have had issues with the schools and we would have had to drive a lot more. So as I see it, until we convert more people to minimalism and mustachianism this will be a significant problems for families trying to FIRE.

Exact situation i'm dealing with/considering right now.  Any regrets on moving to the more expenisve place or would you do it again?
Well, being that we haven't sold the old house it's a hard question to answer.
This truly was a decision based on feelings and emotions rather than finances. Because financially it made sense to stay in the old place. It would have been paid off in 8 years, and was easy/cheap to maintain. It had 4 beds and 2 baths and a finished basement, all in a small footprint. We had updated everything to just the way we wanted it, )which we won't get back).
But, I can tell you that watching my kids run up and down the new street playing with other kids, seeing my neighbors out taking care of their properties, going to block parties, not having to worry about every thing I do to the house wondering if we'll be left with the only decent house on the block, living with people who are really engaged in their community- those things have made it worth it. And the fact that despite it being a much bigger more expensive home, it was still only half the house we could have afforded. So while it is certainly more than we need, in some ways it is still a fairly economical choice.
What I find really ironic is that many of the people who are looking at our old house are older folks who are "downsizing". I keep telling my husband that in 20 years we are going to wish we still had it.

Bearded Man

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2015, 11:03:47 PM »
Anyways, back to the topic of bad neighbors. Yeah, I think it is actually an advantage to have renters for neighbors. They are more likely to move on quicker, and you can always come down on the landlord through code enforcement or the city. Both of my rentals are licensed because the cities they are in require it.

Sigh, just seems like bad neighbors are a fact of life. At least when I lived in my 1 bedroom apartment my neighbors didn't have loud kids, mostly quiet adult professionals. To this day I lived in that apartment longer than all the other places, houses included, COMBINED. Perhaps it was because I was broke and didn't want to dip into my meager savings for moving. But even my friends remarked how quiet my apartment was compared to those of their other friends.

Where I live now, I have maybe 10 visible neighbors. All of them are quiet and respectful but ONE. Just one. Actually, there was another but he moved and converted his house into a rental. Renters are quiet as mice.

Blatant

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2015, 08:09:06 AM »
BM: I've read several of your posts and can't quite figure out if you're a troll. If you are, you're doing a splendid job. If you're not, well ...

"Bad" neighbors appear to be a fact of YOUR life. What's the common denominator?

Bergal

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2015, 04:51:21 PM »
Blatant, why would you say such a thing?  I've read many of his comments too and he's made a lot of useful and interesting comments.  Disagreeing with him doesn't make him a troll.

lukebuz

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2015, 07:15:12 PM »
Trade money for what is really important in life.  That is what it all boils down to.
I just did.  Locked in a $40,000 loss when entering a contract with my old house, but don't regret it for a second.
I appreciate this. Our old place in the less desirable neighborhood is still for sale. We're probably going to have to take a considerable loss. And I feel guilty about buying such a large expensive home. But when my kids are running up and down the street with neighborhood kids playing basket ball, nerf gun battles, trips to the swim club and tennis it really makes us feel good. I hope its worth working the extra years to FIRE.

Yup, your situation is exactly what I did.  A neighborhood that stressed me out daily - and I'm now in a place with many more perks, opportunities, nice neighbors, etc.  I did move 700 miles, but even if you stayed in the same state, it's worth it to spend the money to be happy daily.  Sure, it may set you back a bit in your FIRE plans, but remember, your life can be cut short a any minute.
Take a balanced approach, and I know it's a tired old saying, but "Life is a JOURNEY, not a DESTINATION (live it every day - happily, and understand that it's not a utopia 10 or 15 years down the road).   Money is your tool, use it to improve your life.

Sid Hoffman

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2015, 08:04:16 PM »
I'll throw my two cents in: buy wherever the best public schools are.  Not the best private schools; the best public schools.  A city/town/neighborhood with miles of consistently good schools tends to be the kind of place that consistently draws quality owners, tenants, and rising home values.  So even if you want to move later, such an area is (in my experience) the best bet for having consistently good resale values and family oriented neighbors.

Bearded Man

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2015, 11:29:06 AM »
BM: I've read several of your posts and can't quite figure out if you're a troll. If you are, you're doing a splendid job. If you're not, well ...

"Bad" neighbors appear to be a fact of YOUR life. What's the common denominator?

If someone with 56 posts considers someone with nearly 650+ posts a "troll" because:

1) They don't like to have neighbors who play loud music all day (section 8 dead beats scamming the system) and

2) at a different house another neighbor who was a renter that moved in after I bought the house shooting up in the alley behind my house, stolen cars being found there all the time left there by his friends after I called the cops on them, catching them peering in my other neighbors windows...

...Makes ME the bad neighbor, even though I'm quiet, make 150K a year, am an MBA candidate, etc. then I think you're either a troll who like to accuse people of vague behaviors to start up trouble, the type of neighbor no one wants because you are the type I'm complaining about or lack critical thinking skills.

Frankly, you seem like you are all of the above, because bad neighbors are a fact of life, and I asked a reasonable question about forever homes, because no matter how good your neighbors are now, they will eventually change. If that makes me a troll, then you clearly are not sure what a troll is or lack basic critical thinking skills. Also, if you have no bad neighbors, you are probably it, and based on your otherwise useless and unfounded personal attack, I suspect you are in fact the bad neighbor I speak of. Loud, and inconsiderate.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 11:37:38 AM by Bearded Man »

zephyr911

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2015, 11:35:46 AM »
Post count is of little use in the identification of trolls, and anyone can become one on any given day, regardless of past behavior.

The confusion probably stems from your general grumpiness and negativity toward the human race... xD

Bearded Man

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2015, 11:39:02 AM »
Post count is of little use in the identification of trolls, and anyone can become one on any given day, regardless of past behavior.

The confusion probably stems from your general grumpiness and negativity toward the human race... xD

Riiight. Posting a legitimate question that bad neighbors, even if you don't have them, will likely move in eventually and how do you deal with it if your FI plan is dependent on said home, makes me a troll and grumpy, but the guy who makes a dumb comment is a genius and so are you. Got it.

BeanCounter

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2015, 11:53:53 AM »
Trade money for what is really important in life.  That is what it all boils down to.
I just did.  Locked in a $40,000 loss when entering a contract with my old house, but don't regret it for a second.
I appreciate this. Our old place in the less desirable neighborhood is still for sale. We're probably going to have to take a considerable loss. And I feel guilty about buying such a large expensive home. But when my kids are running up and down the street with neighborhood kids playing basket ball, nerf gun battles, trips to the swim club and tennis it really makes us feel good. I hope its worth working the extra years to FIRE.

Yup, your situation is exactly what I did.  A neighborhood that stressed me out daily - and I'm now in a place with many more perks, opportunities, nice neighbors, etc.  I did move 700 miles, but even if you stayed in the same state, it's worth it to spend the money to be happy daily.  Sure, it may set you back a bit in your FIRE plans, but remember, your life can be cut short a any minute.
Take a balanced approach, and I know it's a tired old saying, but "Life is a JOURNEY, not a DESTINATION (live it every day - happily, and understand that it's not a utopia 10 or 15 years down the road).   Money is your tool, use it to improve your life.
Exactly. It would be nice to be FI, but I just don't think we would have really been happy doing it in that house.

BeanCounter

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2015, 12:02:45 PM »
Anyways, back to the topic of bad neighbors. Yeah, I think it is actually an advantage to have renters for neighbors. They are more likely to move on quicker, and you can always come down on the landlord through code enforcement or the city. Both of my rentals are licensed because the cities they are in require it.

Sigh, just seems like bad neighbors are a fact of life. At least when I lived in my 1 bedroom apartment my neighbors didn't have loud kids, mostly quiet adult professionals. To this day I lived in that apartment longer than all the other places, houses included, COMBINED. Perhaps it was because I was broke and didn't want to dip into my meager savings for moving. But even my friends remarked how quiet my apartment was compared to those of their other friends.

Where I live now, I have maybe 10 visible neighbors. All of them are quiet and respectful but ONE. Just one. Actually, there was another but he moved and converted his house into a rental. Renters are quiet as mice.
We had several renters around the old house. The issue wasn't the tenants other than they don't stay long and often don't have kids for my kids to play with. The issue was the landlords. It's not that they didn't care for the properties, it's that they did the absolute bare minimum. Two of the houses looked so sad without a stich of landscaping. And they would allow the tenants to do things like hang sheets for blinds, or put a cable dish in the FRONT YARD on a pole. Or when it was time to do something about the crumbling front porch, they just slapped some wood decking over it and called it done. Didn't matter if it matched anything. It was functional.
I'm sorry, I know it's petty, but I just have more pride in my property than that. And it made me sad to come home and see my house well cared for with flowers on the porch and proper blinds in the windows among that. But yet there really isn't anything wrong with the neighborhood- safe, decent schools, library community center etc. So honestly it was the rentals.

zephyr911

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2015, 12:04:26 PM »
Riiight. Posting a legitimate question that bad neighbors, even if you don't have them, will likely move in eventually and how do you deal with it if your FI plan is dependent on said home, makes me a troll and grumpy, but the guy who makes a dumb comment is a genius and so are you. Got it.
I rest my case, and putting all kinds of silly words in my mouth only further proves the point.
It's not personal, it's just an observation.

BeanCounter

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2015, 12:11:08 PM »
I'll throw my two cents in: buy wherever the best public schools are.  Not the best private schools; the best public schools.  A city/town/neighborhood with miles of consistently good schools tends to be the kind of place that consistently draws quality owners, tenants, and rising home values.  So even if you want to move later, such an area is (in my experience) the best bet for having consistently good resale values and family oriented neighbors.
I agree, though you will pay much more for it. The EXACT same house as ours in what is considered one of the best districts is $100k more.

dadu007

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2015, 02:20:08 PM »
I'll throw my two cents in: buy wherever the best public schools are.  Not the best private schools; the best public schools.  A city/town/neighborhood with miles of consistently good schools tends to be the kind of place that consistently draws quality owners, tenants, and rising home values.  So even if you want to move later, such an area is (in my experience) the best bet for having consistently good resale values and family oriented neighbors.

Bingo. Location, location, location based on public schools. Our last home was very affordable, but the neighborhood was shit. The last straw was going on a walk with my wife and happening upon the local skinhead starting a roaring bonfire in a 100 gallon trash can using leftover construction materials IN HIS FRONT DRIVEWAY.
Luckily (or not), my company closed my office in the state we were in at the time and relocated us to a state with better economics. We bought a lower end house in the best damn school district. It stretched us at first, but has paid off. The house has already appreciated and EVERYONE maintains their house, and if anything we're the slackers (not really, but you know what I mean). Our kids are happier, we're happier. The quality of life is worth every penny of increased cost to us.  And I'm not peering out the windows every night wondering what the f*** that sound is...
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 02:21:45 PM by dadu007 »

Blatant

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2015, 10:13:38 PM »
You've cleared up my assessment and I stand corrected. You're obviously not a troll. You're a douche.

BUT ... you have nearly 650 posts on an Internet message board, make a reported $150k a year and are a candidate for an MBA. So you win!! Congratulations.

But seriously, if your actual life is anything like your posts, you seem deeply, deeply lost and unhappy. And very antagonistic toward your fellow humans. Something to ponder while you're cooking up your next post about how everything around you sucks.

paddedhat

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Re: The "forever" home, changing neighbors, and ER
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2015, 06:31:21 AM »
Not really sure if the name calling is necessary here. I have been is BM's shoes and it can suck.

We raised our kids in a great rural area, and the 'hood was awesome for most of that time. Then the great recession hit, and all the rules were out the door. The sweet old couple next door ends up moving out, and is replaced by a fascinating clusterfuck. A large, clueless family ends up in a 1/4 million dollar home with a single income. The single income is from a cardboard box factory, paying $12/hr. The job is eighty miles away. In the end, the homeowner actually asked ME why a bank could be so dumb as to give him a loan? We get to spend the next few years watching this mess collapse like a failed cake. Similar failures surrounded us. Bank owned homes that have been abandoned, for years. Abandoned cars in front yards, etc.....

Two years ago I built a new place in a nearby community. Overall, it's a much more functional place. Unfortunately, as soon as we moved in, the next door neighbor decided that grass cutting and exterior upkeep were a passing fad, and he hasn't done a thing since. The yard is gone, replaced by a wild collection of 2-3' high brush, and the place looks abandoned. It is what it is. There is no sense in getting worked up about it, and it certainly hasn't given me some general bitterness toward humanity, but BM is right, doesn't matter where you are, unless you end up in a HOA run like a prison, you are going to end up with a loser for a neighbor. Calling BM a troll, or worse, for discussing the reality of home ownership doesn't change the facts. A lot of what is being discussed here are things that have had a huge impact on how I view the concept of any place being forever. The DW and I spend a great deal of our time living out of our motorhome. I've come to realize that there is no place without serious drawbacks when it comes to finding a place to live, here in North America, and that what you see today can change, sometimes amazingly fast, depending on many factors, particularly economic ones.