That's it, I am leaving this website forever, I have no future...

[QueyWet]

And no chance of ever becoming FIRE.
I am 28, with debt and working minimum wage.
What "Mr Money Mustache" and other FIRE proponents conviniently not mention is that in order to become FIRE you must have a high salary so that you can save a lot of money fast and upfront for about 10 years.
Working minimum wage or low salary job in general , even if you work for a million years you will not be able to save enough to FIRE.

In addition I don't like the cultish vibe of this site.
People here revere "Mr Money Mustache" like he is a cult leader that is perfect and can say no wrong and his words are the gospel.
Goodbye, this is my last thread ever on this website.

[Papa bear]

Based on your previous posts, it sounds like you are depressed.  You should take care of that first.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bateaux]

So...what part of bust you ass finding a good job, bust your ass being successful at that job and save as much of your pay, while keeping debts low, did you not understand?   We don't have magic words or methods for you.  It's a lot of boring ass busting till you no longer have to.  Out!

[kpd905]

Is this like when someone makes a big, dramatic Facebook post to say that they are leaving Facebook?

[sol]

You'll never read these words, QueyWet, but for anyone else who stumbles upon this thread...

What "Mr Money Mustache" and other FIRE proponents conviniently not mention is that in order to become FIRE you must have a high salary

Jacob at ERE disagrees with you.  So does the shockingly simple math article.  You might notice that "salary" does not appear in that equation anywhere, only the ratio of what you save to what you spend.  If you're saving 60% or more of your income, you can retire in 15 yeas whether you make minimum wage or $200k per year. 

Working minimum wage or low salary job in general , even if you work for a million years you will not be able to save enough to FIRE.

Didn't you read my last paragraph yet?  Income doesn't matter, savings rate matters.  That's the whole secret of this movement. 

People here revere "Mr Money Mustache" like he is a cult leader that is perfect and can say no wrong and his words are the gospel.

You haven't spent any time on the forum if you think that's true.  There are lots of differing opinions here, and we strive to offer them in the nicest and most respectful way possible.

So I'm trying to be as nice and respectful as I can when I say:  you appear to be very confused about this site and its message.  It's too bad that you couldn't be bothered to understand what its all about, and I am saddened that you and people like you will spend extra decades of their lives working at jobs they hate just because they can't reduce their wasteful lifestyle spending.  You were so close to being saved from your own self-destructive behaviors, having found this site, and having tried to read it.  If only you could have spent a few more minutes trying to comprehend, your life would have been immeasurably improved.

But not everyone is ready to be saved.  Maybe spend 20 more years working that minimum wage job and then revisit here, and try again. 

[GuitarStv]

And no chance of ever becoming FIRE.
I am 28, with debt and working minimum wage.
What "Mr Money Mustache" and other FIRE proponents conviniently not mention is that in order to become FIRE you must have a high salary so that you can save a lot of money fast and upfront for about 10 years.
Working minimum wage or low salary job in general , even if you work for a million years you will not be able to save enough to FIRE.

We have several members who never worked high paying jobs but retired early.  It's certainly possible to do, but you have to learn to live within your means with a much more aggressive budget than would be necessary with a higher salary.

In addition I don't like the cultish vibe of this site.
People here revere "Mr Money Mustache" like he is a cult leader that is perfect and can say no wrong and his words are the gospel.

Really?  I find that he's got some good ideas, but disagree with him on quite a few issues.  He's certainly not perfect.

Goodbye, this is my last thread ever on this website.

Peace out.

[EvenSteven]

Is this like when someone makes a big, dramatic Facebook post to say that they are leaving Facebook?

Kind of. The OP reads to me like someone with debilitating depression, and has internalized the stigma against people with  mental health problems and mental health treatment.

So in a sense I agree with the OP: this forum is not equipped to help with the most pressing problem they have. I don's see a lot of progress to be made by the OP continuing to start new threads.

[HBFIRE]

Is this like when someone makes a big, dramatic Facebook post to say that they are leaving Facebook?

Was my first thought too. 

[FIREstache]

And no chance of ever becoming FIRE.
I am 28, with debt and working minimum wage.
What "Mr Money Mustache" and other FIRE proponents conviniently not mention is that in order to become FIRE you must have a high salary so that you can save a lot of money fast and upfront for about 10 years.
Working minimum wage or low salary job in general , even if you work for a million years you will not be able to save enough to FIRE.

I made shit wages when I was 28 also but was able to get my income up by my mid 30's, always had a high savings rate, and now in my mid 50's have a healthy $1.4M stash and able to FIRE any time.  It takes time and effort.  You don't have FIRE at age 38, but that doesn't mean you have to work until FRA of 67 either.

In addition I don't like the cultish vibe of this site.
People here revere "Mr Money Mustache" like he is a cult leader that is perfect and can say no wrong and his words are the gospel.
Goodbye, this is my last thread ever on this website.

MMM is just another person to me.  I've read some of his blog, but I was already frugal and on the path to early retirement before I ever saw this site, which was several years ago.

[PhilB]

MMM is just another person to me.  I've read some of his blog, but I was already frugal and on the path to early retirement before I ever saw this site, which was several years ago.

Yep.  It might make an interesting poll to ask how many of the regular forum readers / posters actually read the original blog any  more.

[BicycleB]

And no chance of ever becoming FIRE.
I am 28, with debt and working minimum wage.
What "Mr Money Mustache" and other FIRE proponents conviniently not mention is that in order to become FIRE you must have a high salary so that you can save a lot of money fast and upfront for about 10 years.
Working minimum wage or low salary job in general , even if you work for a million years you will not be able to save enough to FIRE.

In addition I don't like the cultish vibe of this site.
People here revere "Mr Money Mustache" like he is a cult leader that is perfect and can say no wrong and his words are the gospel.
Goodbye, this is my last thread ever on this website.

@QueyWet, I hope you feel better soon.

In another thread, you posted that you spend money on restaurants. A series of posts followed in which people pointed out that you therefore have the ability to save; suggested paths to better jobs; encouraged you by mentioning examples of people with modest incomes who became FIRE; linked to threads onsite where other people have modest incomes; and gave a link to a website where people with a US minimum wage income would be saving a large % of income (Early Retirement Extreme). Can you find one of these suggestions to follow, and hold on day by day instead of giving up?

Giving up makes me remember when, as a 20something, I considered suicide. Just didn't have the energy to face life or make changes. Glad I didn't do it!

Obviously you're only quitting this website, or talking about it. I am very glad you haven't said anything about a deeper level of quitting. Nonetheless, at some point there is a chance life will get better. It's likely to get better faster if you take action, such as cooking rice and beans (or, eggs and toast) instead of eating at a restaurant. But even if you don't feel up to it, it could get better. A distant acquaintance approached me when I was down, and listened to my story. I felt since I didn't have the energy to change, things were hopeless. He said, "Well, maybe even if you do nothing, you'll feel better in a while. Could you wait three months and find out?" I did, and sure enough, did eventually feel better. So even if you don't post again, I hope you hang in there with regard to your life. Best wishes.

PS. As a 20something, I frequently worked jobs at or near minimum wage. Over time, in unsteady bursts, I gradually rose to median income. It took me until late 40s to reach FIRE, not 30something, but it's possible.

Incidentally, there's a book by someone who rarely has income much above minimum wage, about how many resources are available and what to do about obtaining them. She is a single mom who went from homeless to FI on very low income, so she knows how to overcome difficulties on low wages. She has posted in the Mustache boards in the past. If you PM me your address, I will send you a copy of the book at my expense.

https://www.amazon.com/Rising-Strategies-Broke-At-Risk-Those-ebook/dp/B01EXOK814

https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-best-book-to-learn-to-be-extremely-frugal

[FLOW]

You need to change your strategy and your tactics.  The current ones aren't working for you.  Your attitude -- how you choose to see the world, and interpret the world -- is not productive, and is not conducive to professional or personal success.  So try a different attitude.  Try a different attitude for 10 minutes, and see how it feels. Some work better than others.   

Awaken the Giant Within, by Tony Robbins, is a good place to start.  Message me an address and I'll send you my copy.  Or just get it from the library.

P.S. I didn't make 30K in a year until I was 33 years old.  You're actually way ahead of where I was at that young age.  28?  You're a kid. There is nothing magical about any of these people who make lots of money.  But you do have to be willing to learn some new skills, and apply some new attitudes. 

 

[MoneyTree]

from reading the other posts you have posted here over the past weeks, it really doesn't seem like you are ready to receive the help given to you.

What is the alternative? You just continue on your the exact path that you are on the one that has led you to a place in life that you hate?

If nothing changes -->nothing changes. Seems self evident, but you won't be able to start improving your life until you get this.

Before thinking about things like FIRE, i'd suggest that you really consider ditching the victim mindset that is present in nearly every post you've made here. You may have not been handed the best of circumstances, but clinging to your victimized, deterministic mentality will ensure things never change.

You seem more interested in convincing everyone that you can't do it, rather than listening to those who are showing you the way. That needs to be your first step, because if you won't stop listening to your own negative thoughts, someone here could hand you the golden key that unlocks FIRE (and they have) and you would not reach out and take it.

[Metalcat]

Talk to your doctor.

Several of us have given you this advice already and you seriously need to take it. You don't need a forum or financial advice, you need medical help.

Good luck.

[Cranky]

Not everybody here has the same goals.

Some people are just interested in a satisfying life on a small income.

When dh & I we’re 28yo, we were beyond broke - in grad school and working for minimum wage. You know what? We’ve had a lovely life and enjoyed our work. We didn’t retire early but we’ll be comfortable in retirement.

[kei te pai]

Please do leave. You seem angry and distressed and we can not help you here, although there has been sound advice offered in a kind manner. You seem to be posting more than reading.
I dont think this is the right place for you at this time.

[Paul der Krake]

unsubscribe

[Steeze]

How to go from broke to FIRE

1- work minimum wage while also attending community college on student loans.
2- finish your engineering degree at university, continue to work minimum wage and take loans
3- graduate and get any engineering job you can, the salary will increase in time
4- aggressively pay back your 100k in student loans over 3-5 years.
5- spend 10-15 years saving 50-75% of your income now that your loans are paid off
6- FIRE

I did this. I worked shitty full time jobs, lived in my car, was on food stamps, ate at soup kitchens on my journey through engineering school. I got in trouble got arrested, did everything wrong. It took me 7 years to graduate, I had to retake classes I failed. Calc 2 took me 3 tries, but I didn’t quit.

10 years ago I slept in my car and stole food from the grocery store regularly. I was depressed and considered killing my self regularly. I drank regularly and did drugs. Today I am sober, married, own a home, am a leader in my firm, and make more than I could ever imagine. I am able to save a stupid amount of money.

@QueyWet you can make it out of the trap you are in. It’s not easy being stuck in a hole, but you have to try to get out and never quit until you do. It’s possible. I used to hate everyone with money, every kid that didn’t have to work, didn’t have loans. It’s understandable to be angry at all of this when your on the wrong side of it. You can get on the right side of it, but it takes sacrifice, discipline, and determination. If you never quit trying you will succeed eventually.

Best of luck to you, but luck isn’t what you need. I hope you keep learning and keep trying.

[use2betrix]

Why not find a second job? What’s stopping you from working 80 hour weeks if you want it that bad? That will make the equivalent each week of 2x minimum wage.

I make a shit ton of money (either hourly or day rate, depending on the job) and I STILL work a shit ton of hours. You know how I became so successful? By working a shit ton of hours. With 10 calendar years of experience, I have more like 16ish physical years of experience, if you were to base it on hours.

Last year, I had a 6 month contractor position where I was making $60/hr plus 700/wk per diem. My hours were 100% mine to choose. I could have easily worked 50 (and made a ton) or I could have worked 80 (and made even more). Not to mention, my overtime hours were time and a half.

Even though I could have made plenty of money at 50 hours, I STILL worked alternating 72/80 hr weeks (I took every other Sunday off).

Imagine, someone who makes less, IMO, should be even MORE driven to work more and harder if their focus is on FIRE and bettering their future.

Right now, my day rate, per diem, and benefits, are significantly better than that 6 month stint I worked part of last year. I STILL work 6 days a week (granted, 10 hour days now because I’m day rate instead of hourly) and this 2 week pay period, I worked 13 of the 14 days.

I get a kick out of people who complain about where they aren’t in life, when you know they’re surrounded by people who have worked 1000x harder to get where they are. Some people get lucky, sure, but a lot of people just work really fucking hard. Hard work is something anyone can do..

[CheapScholar]

This dude reminds me of my fuck up uncle.  He would always say that his sister was “lucky” because she was a nurse.  Or my dad was lucky because he owned his small business.  The guy honestly couldn’t see that his sister worked hard to go through nursing school or that my dad busted his ass to build his business.  He thought the world was against him and he’d never make close to a decent paycheck.  Unfortunately, he was right.  Spent most of his life bitching, drinking, and feeling sorry for himself.

I think the biggest flaw with OPs posts is that he never realized that nearly all of us work very hard and will probably continue to work hard on things we care about or volunteer after FIRE.  I suspect OP heard about “retiring early” because he thought not working means sitting around or going on vacations all the time..  One thing I’ve noticed over the years on this forum is that most people here are driven and not the couch potato types. 

[Omy]

You are 100% correct - if you believe you have no future and will never achieve FIRE you definitely will not.

Minimum wage job + debt + living in your parents' basement playing video games will never get you anywhere. The recipe to a successful life is here...but you need to do the work of creating a fulfilling life for yourself. The articles and forum posts spoon feed information on how to FIRE, but if you aren't willing to hear it there's really nothing any of us can do for you.

[Johnez]

I will say this to anyone who is tired of shitty min wage jobs and still young and strong. Go find shitty work that pays. I am being paid $28 an hour to bust my ass in a warehouse over graveyard shifts. You might not get this lucky, but I did. Prior to this I was making $12 an hour building sofas. What I've learned is there are tons of jobs that have either odd schedules, or demand a lot of strength that really pay. Construction is another entry level field you can get into. Go look up every food manufacturer, grocery company, beer maker, beverage maker nearby and I bet you'll find wages for their warehouse workers that are better than your average min wage retail gig. Often these companies also have maintenance crews or production teams as well, also decently paid. Avoid Walmart, Target, UPS, or FedEx. Now go to school from there. Which is what I'm doing. Taking me 4 years to get a 2 year degree but hell I'll be making $40 an hour within 5 years so I'm fine with that. There's lots of paths. I wasn't even aware of things till I got in with a big company. There are TONs of opportunities. Talk to people. Be nice, courteous, and the type of person that people want to help out. This means listening.

Alright, I'm rambling, but never accept min wage. Unless there is a plan somewhere. Min wage is your last alternative.

[marty998]

I will say this to anyone who is tired of shitty min wage jobs and still young and strong. Go find shitty work that pays. I am being paid $28 an hour to bust my ass in a warehouse over graveyard shifts. You might not get this lucky, but I did. Prior to this I was making $12 an hour building sofas. What I've learned is there are tons of jobs that have either odd schedules, or demand a lot of strength that really pay. Construction is another entry level field you can get into. Go look up every food manufacturer, grocery company, beer maker, beverage maker nearby and I bet you'll find wages for their warehouse workers that are better than your average min wage retail gig. Often these companies also have maintenance crews or production teams as well, also decently paid. Avoid Walmart, Target, UPS, or FedEx. Now go to school from there. Which is what I'm doing. Taking me 4 years to get a 2 year degree but hell I'll be making $40 an hour within 5 years so I'm fine with that. There's lots of paths. I wasn't even aware of things till I got in with a big company. There are TONs of opportunities. Talk to people. Be nice, courteous, and the type of person that people want to help out. This means listening.

Alright, I'm rambling, but never accept min wage. Unless there is a plan somewhere. Min wage is your last alternative.

This is an attitude I really like.

[TomTX]

Good job on this thread, folks. Kudos. Knocking it out of the park.

[Adam Zapple]

I used to make a shit wage at one time.  I worked extra hours so I could save.  Still do, even though I now earn a much higher wage.  There is nothing special about me whatsoever.  Cry me a river. 

There are almost unlimited opportunities to make more than minimum wage for anyone able-bodied with an ounce or two of ambition.  Blaming others is easy.  Taking responsibility for your daily life choices is less so.

[CoffeeR]

There are almost unlimited opportunities to make more than minimum wage for anyone able-bodied with an ounce or two of ambition.  Blaming others is easy.  Taking responsibility for your daily life choices is less so.

I will get flak for this. But so be it. I agree that in the US the are almost unlimited opportunities and I also do not support the defeat in the OP's post which others have already addressed.

Based on other posts in other threads, the OP is not in the US. There are many countries where opportunities are truly limited and even getting a "minimum wage" (whatever that may be in the country) job can be challenging. If you happen to be of the wrong ethnic group or religion or whatever it can be almost impossible. Despair like this runs deep in many places.

[APowers]

There are almost unlimited opportunities to make more than minimum wage for anyone able-bodied with an ounce or two of ambition.  Blaming others is easy.  Taking responsibility for your daily life choices is less so.

I will get flak for this. But so be it. I agree that in the US the are almost unlimited opportunities and I also do not support the defeat in the OP's post which others have already addressed.

Based on other posts in other threads, the OP is not in the US. There are many countries where opportunities are truly limited and even getting a "minimum wage" (whatever that may be in the country) job can be challenging. If you happen to be of the wrong ethnic group or religion or whatever it can be almost impossible. Despair like this runs deep in many places.

Yes, he's not in the US. I specifically asked for his general location in another thread, but he chose not to say. I know that there are a bunch of us here who could give him much better locale-specific advice, but....can't do that if he won't let us.

[Proletariat]

All this advice is falling on deaf ears...someone either wants help or they don't. This person is so despondent that they don't even want help. Even if they were to land a six figure salary tomorrow, that wouldn't make them happy. Something much deeper is going on than anyone can help this person with over the internet unfortunately.

[frugledoc]

I’d give up all my money if I could go back to my 20s.

Young people are already rich.  Getting older sucks.

[Johnez]

All this advice is falling on deaf ears...someone either wants help or they don't. This person is so despondent that they don't even want help. Even if they were to land a six figure salary tomorrow, that wouldn't make them happy. Something much deeper is going on than anyone can help this person with over the internet unfortunately.

This forum is visited by lots more than are registered. If advice doesn't suit OP exactly, I'm sure any of these tips will work for someone in a similar situation. I've had many questions answered here that I didn't even have to ask thanks to people willing to offer advice freely.

[Case]

And no chance of ever becoming FIRE.
I am 28, with debt and working minimum wage.
What "Mr Money Mustache" and other FIRE proponents conviniently not mention is that in order to become FIRE you must have a high salary so that you can save a lot of money fast and upfront for about 10 years.
Working minimum wage or low salary job in general , even if you work for a million years you will not be able to save enough to FIRE.

In addition I don't like the cultish vibe of this site.
People here revere "Mr Money Mustache" like he is a cult leader that is perfect and can say no wrong and his words are the gospel.
Goodbye, this is my last thread ever on this website.

You seem troubled (depressed?), and I hope that you can find some peace.  People here generally want to do good and help.  It is true, though, that they will give tough love.  There is a fair amount of worship of MMM, but don't be fooled; people here are very reasonable and logical.  We are all here for the same reason; optimizing our quality of life.

When one considers the bare minimum necessary to be happy, the threshold to FIRE becomes extremely low.  A happy life is not fundamentally very expensive.  People here often saving more than is necessary, in order to have indulgences.  MMM preaches the opposite, and for the most part, he walks the walk more than most people here.  He lives very well below his economics means. 

You are going to have to invest some time/effort here or elsewhere in the FIRE concept if you hope to make any progress.  It is up to you; the resources and free advice are readily available.  The effort to take action must be supplied by you.

[Villanelle]

I don't know if you will ever read any of the posts in this thread.

But there are plenty of people here (and not on this site) who retire on very low incomes.  There is even a low income journal here, where many of then post together.  So that claim sounds to me like something you are telling yourself because dismissing it is easier than doing the hard work of changing your life.

Have you read the blog posts yet?  My guess is you haven't.  And I understand.  Dismissing it as a cult rather than reading and taking what info works for you and disregarding the rest (what most of is do here, which is the opposite of your claim and of cult-like devotion) is hard work.  It's easier than evaluating information, especially when that information might force you toward uncomfortable realizations and decisions. 

There are lots of threads with disagreements about the things MMM says.  There are plenty of people here who live in mcMansions or own luxury vehicles, things MMM would laugh at.  It absolutely isn't a place where his word is gospel and we al follow it without question.

But I think it's so much easier for you to tell yourself all those things so that you can dismiss all of it, rather than accept that your life could be different but you aren't willing to do the hard, uncomfortable work of making it so.  Easier to tell yourself there is no choice and no other way and no option, because they you don't have to actually do anything.

And you certainly aren't the first person with that mentality. I'd wager that most people have done it over some issue at some point in our lives.  But if you do it too much, for to many things, or for things that are hugely important or are clearly affecting your happiness, it's going to really prevent you from having much in your life.  I wish you luck, peace, and strength. 

[Cool Friend]

I get where people are coming from about the "easy way out" of despair and giving up, but I wanted to offer another perspective.

The kind of despair you're experiencing is often learned through repeated failure and discouragement. No one is impervious to this. Though everyone has a different threshold for much they can withstand, getting beaten down enough times without any kind of win can bring any of us there. Powerlessness is learned from experiencing situations in which you are actually powerless.  You don't see a whole lot of people for whom their efforts have tangible outcomes suddenly adopt an attitude of despair.

There's a lot of detail about your life you're not able or willing to share, so there's not a whole lot I can offer to help you in your situation.  But I do know something of what it's like to have suffered so many consecutive defeats that it doesn't feel like anything you do in this world can help.

Maybe you need Tough Love like others are offering, but I'm going to offer something to supplement that: compassion for what you're going through. I'm very sorry that your experience has suggested to you that nothing you do will improve your life. There's nothing "easier" about being in that situation. It's a fucking awful, difficult place to be.

Like others have said, if there's any chance at all of finding mental health care in your country, I entreat you to seek it. It doesn't even have to be Western-style psychologists and psychiatrists. It can be supportive family/friends, maybe a positive religious group you identify with.  Seek to nurture your shattered spirit anywhere and everywhere you can think of, even if you don't believe it will help you. You need to reconstruct your spirit and power in small, achievable steps before you jump to broader, long-term challenges like retiring early.

Though I'm just a stranger in another part of the world, I hope that you can make your way out of this hole.

[El Jacinto]

Thank goodness. OP is either a troll or needs help that this forum can’t provide and apparently has no intention of seeking out.

[Radagast]

1- work minimum wage while also attending community college on student loans.
2- finish your engineering degree at university, continue to work minimum wage and take loans
3- graduate and get any engineering job you can, the salary will increase in time
4- aggressively pay back your 100k in student loans over 3-5 years.
5- spend 10-15 years saving 50-75% of your income now that your loans are paid off
6- FIRE

Nursing is a pretty great choice too, with similar salaries, less variance in outcome, near certainty of finding employment anywhere in the world at any time, and much lower costs! (if you like that line of work, which I do not so I am an engineer)
My SO:
1. Got Certified Nursing Assistant certificate, a 1-month cert that nearly guarantees at least 1.5x minimum wage in low-paid-places and more in better-paid ones, and gets foot in door
2. Went to school at a community college for 4 years to get a nursing degree/license. Tuition was $5k per year and covered 100% by scholarships and grants.
3. Brought in $15k/yr working breaks and odd weekends and nights while in school
4. Will have made more than $70k in first year of full time employment
5. In second full year could make as much as this experienced engineer by working just a little overtime. We could both have $100k+ jobs next year!
6. No student loans! Nursing degrees are cheap and at available nearly every university and community college!