Author Topic: Tesla Solar....well.....solar, but not Tesla.  (Read 33966 times)

EchoStache

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Tesla Solar....well.....solar, but not Tesla.
« on: December 04, 2022, 06:40:31 AM »
12/04/2022.

I placed an order for Tesla Solar today.  I paid a $250 refundable deposit.  After that, they asked me to link my utility bill, which I did.  I am eyeing a 12 kW system that shows a cost of $27,600 before incentives with no battery backup.  I have an EV and might end up with a 2nd....I believe EV's will be able to provide battery backup in the future....I know some can now, and they have FAR larger capacity.

« Last Edit: February 24, 2023, 05:32:50 PM by UltraStache »

EchoStache

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2022, 06:46:21 AM »
Immediately after paying the refundable deposit, I received an email that a document needed signing.  It as an HOA document stating that I have, or will have, approval from my HOA for the installation.

RWTL

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2022, 07:19:00 AM »
Interested in following...

BikeFanatic

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2022, 07:38:05 AM »
Posting to follow also, very interested in your experience and prices.
I am interested in solar for my home plus I also want to build a battery back up and solar shed to charge my Ebike. (The electric car sounds interesting also, but my only electric vehicle is the bike currently).
I really have the desire for batter to run my furnace and refrigerator during outages, which we get yearly to twice a year due to stormy weather.
Around here I heard of two people that got ripped off like company took deposits and fled. I however have a recommendation for a valid local company that has done solar on my neighbor’s home and she is happy with them.




EchoStache

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2022, 07:54:04 AM »
Welcome to any who choose to follow.  I figured it might be helpful/interesting for others.   I am leaning towards Tesla as I have the impression that they will be the lowest priced option while offering comparable quality.  I have also contacted a couple of local solar companies to see how things compare.

Another reason for leaning towards Tesla is company stability.  A 20 year warranty doesn't mean much if the company isn't around.  I feel like there is a lot of potential for more risk with a small company. 

I also own 20 shares of Tesla stock, along with some in my index funds.  Therefore this is also my foolproof retirement plan.  If I purchase Tesla Solar, they will make so much money that I will be able to retire a gazillionaire off my 20 shares.  Maybe by next year.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2022, 10:30:33 AM by UltraStache »

maizefolk

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2022, 09:28:32 AM »
My parents did residential solar with a small local company and it sounded like there were 6-12 months of management involved with them following up to get work scheduled/done, get inspections scheduled/done, and so on. If paying a bit more for Telsa turns out to mean a mostly turn-key experience I'd be sold. Anyway, interested to follow along with your experience, thanks for starting this thread.

mistymoney

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2022, 10:25:17 AM »
12/04/2022.

I placed an order for Tesla Solar today.  I paid a $250 refundable deposit.  After that, they asked me to link my utility bill, which I did.  I am eyeing a 12 kW system that shows a cost of $27,600 before incentives with no battery backup.  I have an EV and might end up with a 2nd....I believe EV's will be able to provide battery backup in the future....I know some can now, and they have FAR larger capacity.

assuming the panels, not the roof, based on the price. I am interested in gettng the roof eventually, but very interested in hearing your experiences!

thanks for posting and letting us follow along. :)

Villanelle

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2022, 10:34:16 AM »
Interested in following along.  My sister recently did a residential solar install, with battery (not Tesla, though I forget what brand).  Other than having a rouge hive of 550,000 (yes, really, according the the people who came out to remove them) bees taking up residence in their garage when the door was open as part of the solar installation, the process was pretty seamless.  They don't have EVs or any other special electric equipment, but based on the app they got which offers pretty granular date on their use, they are down to almost zero grid use.  In hot SoCal summers, I suspect they will still be using retail electricity, but not much. 

Silrossi46

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2022, 10:47:02 AM »
Also interested in following.  The incentives here in nj are great.  I have been eying the Tesla panels as well without the battery. 

monarda

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2022, 12:47:14 PM »
PTF.
We have solar panels on our rental, installed by a local company in 2011 and added 8 more panels in 2019.
Interested to compare your process.

bryan995

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2022, 05:21:19 PM »
We used Tesla to install 8kW and 2 powerwalls to a preexisting 4kw sunpower system. Very pleased.
Have two EV and can keep the home at any temp we want all year round with minimal impact to the  bill.

Use this forum - it will be much more informative.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/forums/tesla-energy.159/

What state do you live in? What are your utility costs? Any special TOU / EV specific plans?

EchoStache

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2022, 06:13:34 PM »
We used Tesla to install 8kW and 2 powerwalls to a preexisting 4kw sunpower system. Very pleased.
Have two EV and can keep the home at any temp we want all year round with minimal impact to the  bill.

Use this forum - it will be much more informative.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/forums/tesla-energy.159/

What state do you live in? What are your utility costs? Any special TOU / EV specific plans?

We are in PA.  We pay .17  currently but I think the rate is going up.  Unfortunately, we have gas heat rather than electric/heat pump.  What is TOU?  Looked it up.  Our rate does not vary based on time of day.  We have a 2022 Kia Niro EV and *may* be getting a 2023 Chevy Bolt as a 2nd car.  I'd love to be able to use my EV's as my emergency battery backup but neither of these two are capable of that, and I'm certainly not going to spend double to get one that does so.

I'll be contacting HVAC companies to inquire about adding a high efficiency electric heat pump to use in conjunction with our gas heat if the IRA incentives are attractive enough.  The hope would be to almost never use gas heat, but to have it in case its ever needed since its already installed.  Will be switching our gas stove over to induction in 2023.  I have asthma and I tend to be *very* sensitive to airborne stuff so, along with making solar even more beneficial, it may be good for my health. 
« Last Edit: December 04, 2022, 06:22:09 PM by UltraStache »

Abe

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2022, 10:45:16 PM »
I hope it goes well! We didn't go with Tesla due to concerns about customer service and delays after signing, but hopefully they've cleaned their act up (or that was a biased sample since people who were happy don't post about how happy they are...).

We bought space heaters for our bedrooms because of the gas heat issue. I got a quote for replacing the gas units (they said we couldn't just add a heat pump for some reason) and it was $15k for two units! Now with the space heaters (which cost $150 each) the gas heating is used much less.

NorCal

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2022, 08:03:50 AM »
Sounds like a good plan.  Getting additional quotes is a good idea.  I have no idea where I heard it, but I seem to recall Tesla being willing to price-match if you get a lower quote.  Or I might be imagining that.

I'm not sure about the PA market, but in CO a lot of the "fly by night" solar contractors have disappeared and been replaced by some medium size regional contractors.  I feel confident that these regional companies will be around in 20 years while I wouldn't feel as confident about the smaller outfits.

I recently finished electrifying my water heater and hvac with heat pump's.  I've posted a lot of information on this in other threads, but happy to answer any questions if you're thinking about that for the future. 

bryan995

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2022, 09:34:36 AM »
We used Tesla to install 8kW and 2 powerwalls to a preexisting 4kw sunpower system. Very pleased.
Have two EV and can keep the home at any temp we want all year round with minimal impact to the  bill.

Use this forum - it will be much more informative.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/forums/tesla-energy.159/

What state do you live in? What are your utility costs? Any special TOU / EV specific plans?

We are in PA.  We pay .17  currently but I think the rate is going up.  Unfortunately, we have gas heat rather than electric/heat pump.  What is TOU?  Looked it up.  Our rate does not vary based on time of day.  We have a 2022 Kia Niro EV and *may* be getting a 2023 Chevy Bolt as a 2nd car.  I'd love to be able to use my EV's as my emergency battery backup but neither of these two are capable of that, and I'm certainly not going to spend double to get one that does so.

I'll be contacting HVAC companies to inquire about adding a high efficiency electric heat pump to use in conjunction with our gas heat if the IRA incentives are attractive enough.  The hope would be to almost never use gas heat, but to have it in case its ever needed since its already installed.  Will be switching our gas stove over to induction in 2023.  I have asthma and I tend to be *very* sensitive to airborne stuff so, along with making solar even more beneficial, it may be good for my health.

That’s the one nice thing with adding solar / batteries - you are immune to future rate increases. And that at is all but guaranteed.

We are in san diego, and I think we now have the highest utility costs in the nation? 
We are on the EV-TOU-5 plan which gives 'cheap' electricity from midnight-6am to charge EVs / powerwalls etc.
Then wildly expensive electric during off-peak or peak (4-9pm) - which is when we rely on solar+batteries.
https://www.sdge.com/residential/pricing-plans/about-our-pricing-plans/electric-vehicle-plans

Peak rate is $0.63c/kwh in the summer.

From midnight-6am we often pull > 30kwh.  Even more in the summer when both AC units are running.
7kwh -> model Y
10kwh -> f150 lightning
10kwh -> 2 x powerwalls

The high costs make the math on the ROI of a solar/battery system very favorable, only a few years last I checked ~5-7.

We also have gas for home heat, stove, on-demand water and fireplaces.  I did look into a swapping for a dual fuel furnace/heat-pump but it was simply too expensive.  We now have 4 electric space heaters throughput the home to aid on the coldest of san diego 'winter'  nights.

Just keep on Tesla - we actually never once spoke to our actual assigned rep.  We would call in, get assigned some random project manager who would help us solve the problem.  Never once did our assigned PM return a call / email :)  But it all got done, and was done right.  The on-site crew was great.

Here are some pics of our install - https://imgur.com/a/Lk3NMyl
« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 09:49:49 AM by bryan995 »

joemandadman189

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2022, 09:46:31 AM »
ptf

jeninco

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2022, 10:39:32 AM »
Posting to follow also, very interested in your experience and prices.
I am interested in solar for my home plus I also want to build a battery back up and solar shed to charge my Ebike. (The electric car sounds interesting also, but my only electric vehicle is the bike currently).
I really have the desire for batter to run my furnace and refrigerator during outages, which we get yearly to twice a year due to stormy weather.
Around here I heard of two people that got ripped off like company took deposits and fled. I however have a recommendation for a valid local company that has done solar on my neighbor’s home and she is happy with them.

We're just starting out on a potentially significant remodel (our walls need more insulation, as a first step) but I wanted to call out your middle paragraph, because we also want enough battery power to run the furnace (and air handler) and refrigerator and potentially charge some devices, so one more outlet -- but we don't need to light up the entire house and run every single danged thing. Apparently this is not currently an option that's easily available, so that part may be DIY..

EchoStache

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2022, 10:59:37 AM »
I got an email from Tesla today stating that they have completed the design for my house.  I'm at work so couldn't check, but had a feeling it was based on the old satellite photo of the previous house that has been torn down and replace with our new construction <1 year ago.  An agent called today around lunch.  I mentioned this and he confirmed that the plan was indeed drawn up on an old looking property with a rusted metal roof.  He said they will attempt to acquire new images and that if not, they would send a design team out, and that this should take place within 1-2 weeks.
He was very friendly.

RedmondStash

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2022, 02:33:31 PM »
PTF

Been interested in solar panels for a while, because a) cool, and b) frequent power outages.

Anyone know what time(s) of day are best for collecting sunlight? Our roof is sunny in the morning but very shady in the afternoon. Tall trees.

Bartlebooth

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2022, 03:11:57 PM »
Anyone know what time(s) of day are best for collecting sunlight? Our roof is sunny in the morning but very shady in the afternoon. Tall trees.

The US government has a site (https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php) that can calculate this for you.  Put in your address and misc info and then download the hourly CSV file.

If you don't like that experience (bit techy/engineery) then search for a different "solar production calculator" and try one out.

NorCal

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2022, 07:03:47 PM »
PTF

Been interested in solar panels for a while, because a) cool, and b) frequent power outages.

Anyone know what time(s) of day are best for collecting sunlight? Our roof is sunny in the morning but very shady in the afternoon. Tall trees.

Installers will give you good recommendations on this. It’s part of their job.

For the most part, roof angle and shade will dictate where they can go. Placement of roof elements and vents can also make a difference. Most homes only have 1-2 spots that really make sense.

They can do just fine facing any direction other than north, although there are angles that are slightly better.

EchoStache

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2022, 06:37:18 AM »
Update:

Received a text from Tesla Solar on Tuesday.  Site assessment is scheduled for January 6th 2023.  Arrival window 07:00 AM - 5:00 PM.

jrhampt

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2022, 09:48:31 AM »
We would have gone with Tesla Solar because they seem well-priced and had just become available in our area, but our roof is too small for the minimum # of panels that they install (600 sq ft beach cottage).  So we went with Sunrun through Costco (this was our second experience with them as we put solar panels on our last house, too).  We've been pleased with them both times.

RWTL

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2022, 03:08:20 PM »
I read on the website that you cannot add on to a Tesla system - they would have to install a second system.  Does this concern you?

Overall, I'm interested to hear your experience with this.

EchoStache

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2022, 03:26:48 PM »
I read on the website that you cannot add on to a Tesla system - they would have to install a second system.  Does this concern you?

Overall, I'm interested to hear your experience with this.

It's good to know but not a big concern for me....I intend to err on the side of caution with a bigger system than I think I will need.  I have a feeling my roof size and orientation is going to limit the size of the system I can get.  Spending a little more for a bigger system will, worst case scenario, build up more credits as we produce more than we use to cover down time of cloudiness, snow, weather etc.  Also very likely to end up with 2 EV's.

Our electric needs are likely to go down over time as our (3) young adult children move out.

RWTL

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2022, 03:43:50 PM »

Our electric needs are likely to go down over time as our (3) young adult children move out.

Good luck to you.  I'm learning first hand they don't always move out :)

EchoStache

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2022, 12:45:34 PM »
Since even getting an estimate is basically on hold until early January, here are some things I'm weighing with my decision to go solar:

1). We are travelers in health care.  Until we FIRE and/or scale back to working only part of the year, we will be gone from home A LOT.  As in 90%+ of the year.  The house will be occupied full time by at least 3 young adult children, likely for another 1-3 years, who knows for sure.

If we are never home, and the "kids" move out, should we have $20k(estimate) invested in solar to pay for electricity we aren't using?

2). The future is not 100% certain.  For now, we are going on the assumption that this house "may" be our forever home, hence having solar, EV's, heat pump, induction stove i.e. 100% electric for ALL energy, will be an extremely good position to be in throughout retirement.  However, what if, in 7-8 years, we decide we don't need a 2200 ft^2 4 BR house, and we downsize after being mostly gone for the previous 7-8 years while traveling.  Well, that was a dumb $20k purchase, unless we get it back from the sale of the house.  So maybe it will be good to have it in case we live here forever, and no big deal if not as we'll get it back when selling.

3). There's a good possibility that retirement will consist of a good portion of our time spent in Germany i.e. maybe 6 months there, 6 months here.

Ugg...there's a lot of potential uncertainty.  So it is making the purchase of solar much more difficult. 

NorCal

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2022, 06:50:52 AM »
Since even getting an estimate is basically on hold until early January, here are some things I'm weighing with my decision to go solar:

1). We are travelers in health care.  Until we FIRE and/or scale back to working only part of the year, we will be gone from home A LOT.  As in 90%+ of the year.  The house will be occupied full time by at least 3 young adult children, likely for another 1-3 years, who knows for sure.

If we are never home, and the "kids" move out, should we have $20k(estimate) invested in solar to pay for electricity we aren't using?

2). The future is not 100% certain.  For now, we are going on the assumption that this house "may" be our forever home, hence having solar, EV's, heat pump, induction stove i.e. 100% electric for ALL energy, will be an extremely good position to be in throughout retirement.  However, what if, in 7-8 years, we decide we don't need a 2200 ft^2 4 BR house, and we downsize after being mostly gone for the previous 7-8 years while traveling.  Well, that was a dumb $20k purchase, unless we get it back from the sale of the house.  So maybe it will be good to have it in case we live here forever, and no big deal if not as we'll get it back when selling.

3). There's a good possibility that retirement will consist of a good portion of our time spent in Germany i.e. maybe 6 months there, 6 months here.

Ugg...there's a lot of potential uncertainty.  So it is making the purchase of solar much more difficult.

I'm midway through the process of doing everything you're talking about, but taking it in a slightly different order.  I did the heat pump over the summer, heat pump water heater a year ago, and just got a face-punch worthy Tesla a few weeks ago.  My house has a tiny 2.3kW solar system that will get upsized when we replace the roof in a few years.  Here's some solar thoughts to consider:

-Look at financing the solar system, but don't lease it.  I'm generally an anti-debt person, but I think there is a case to be made for a loan  Most home buyers don't add much value to a home for solar.  At least in my neighborhood.  But they don't seem to subtract value for taking over the debt on a solar system.  It's irrational, but it seems to be how the real estate market is handling it.  You could always pay off the loan later if you decide to stay in the house.

-See if your state has a viable Community Solar option, or other renewable energy plan.  This is a larger solar array that you buy into and the power generation gets credited against your bill.  It's still a monthly bill, but you can take your solar membership with you when you move.  I think there's maybe 10-20 states that support Community Solar.  It's not as psychologically satisfying as owning the physical panels, but it can be more practical.


On electrification projects, there's a massive difference in ROI for different projects.  Maybe start with the high-ROI projects, and leave the other lower ROI projects for when something is getting ready to fail.  While your math would be a little different based on usage and utility rates, here's how I saw it shake out for my house:

-A heat-pump water heater is probably the highest ROI project you can do if you qualify for the new IRA incentives.  It saved a couple hundred dollars a year in my case, and I'd guess you could get it done for about $1,000, or even less with the new incentives.  It should pay for itself in the time you live in the house.

-Cooking isn't a large enough energy user that switching will materially impact your bill no matter what you do.  Getting off gas cooking has some good benefits for your health & indoor air quality.  But it won't be a major financial change unless you do a ton of cooking.  There was another thread on here somewhere about induction stoves being on sale for something like $1,100 at Lowe's, but I don't know if that's still available.

-Heat-pump HVAC is maybe saving us a couple hundred dollars a year.  I originally thought it would be closer to $500, but it seems to be using a bit more electricity in the winter than I originally expected.  Operating costs are still lower than gas, but just not by the margin I expected.  And this is a REALLY expensive project.  I'd say it's worth doing, but not until your HVAC is nearing replacement age.  Just don't wait for a complete failure, as parts are back-ordered and qualified installers are booked months in advance.

jrhampt

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2022, 11:59:34 AM »
My thoughts on the issue of the future (your #2 concern) - if you make your home efficient/solar/green and then move sooner than expected, you've made that house and the world a little better for the next people.  Yes, you may not see the full financial advantages of it yourself, but so what?  I don't think that makes it a dumb purchase.

bacchi

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2022, 12:17:11 PM »
My thoughts on the issue of the future (your #2 concern) - if you make your home efficient/solar/green and then move sooner than expected, you've made that house and the world a little better for the next people.  Yes, you may not see the full financial advantages of it yourself, but so what?  I don't think that makes it a dumb purchase.

Yep. I used the same philosophy with my rentals.

EchoStache

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2022, 06:10:38 PM »
Since even getting an estimate is basically on hold until early January, here are some things I'm weighing with my decision to go solar:

1). We are travelers in health care.  Until we FIRE and/or scale back to working only part of the year, we will be gone from home A LOT.  As in 90%+ of the year.  The house will be occupied full time by at least 3 young adult children, likely for another 1-3 years, who knows for sure.

If we are never home, and the "kids" move out, should we have $20k(estimate) invested in solar to pay for electricity we aren't using?

2). The future is not 100% certain.  For now, we are going on the assumption that this house "may" be our forever home, hence having solar, EV's, heat pump, induction stove i.e. 100% electric for ALL energy, will be an extremely good position to be in throughout retirement.  However, what if, in 7-8 years, we decide we don't need a 2200 ft^2 4 BR house, and we downsize after being mostly gone for the previous 7-8 years while traveling.  Well, that was a dumb $20k purchase, unless we get it back from the sale of the house.  So maybe it will be good to have it in case we live here forever, and no big deal if not as we'll get it back when selling.

3). There's a good possibility that retirement will consist of a good portion of our time spent in Germany i.e. maybe 6 months there, 6 months here.

Ugg...there's a lot of potential uncertainty.  So it is making the purchase of solar much more difficult.

I'm midway through the process of doing everything you're talking about, but taking it in a slightly different order.  I did the heat pump over the summer, heat pump water heater a year ago, and just got a face-punch worthy Tesla a few weeks ago.  My house has a tiny 2.3kW solar system that will get upsized when we replace the roof in a few years.  Here's some solar thoughts to consider:

-Look at financing the solar system, but don't lease it.  I'm generally an anti-debt person, but I think there is a case to be made for a loan  Most home buyers don't add much value to a home for solar.  At least in my neighborhood.  But they don't seem to subtract value for taking over the debt on a solar system.  It's irrational, but it seems to be how the real estate market is handling it.  You could always pay off the loan later if you decide to stay in the house.

-See if your state has a viable Community Solar option, or other renewable energy plan.  This is a larger solar array that you buy into and the power generation gets credited against your bill.  It's still a monthly bill, but you can take your solar membership with you when you move.  I think there's maybe 10-20 states that support Community Solar.  It's not as psychologically satisfying as owning the physical panels, but it can be more practical.


On electrification projects, there's a massive difference in ROI for different projects.  Maybe start with the high-ROI projects, and leave the other lower ROI projects for when something is getting ready to fail.  While your math would be a little different based on usage and utility rates, here's how I saw it shake out for my house:

-A heat-pump water heater is probably the highest ROI project you can do if you qualify for the new IRA incentives.  It saved a couple hundred dollars a year in my case, and I'd guess you could get it done for about $1,000, or even less with the new incentives.  It should pay for itself in the time you live in the house.

-Cooking isn't a large enough energy user that switching will materially impact your bill no matter what you do.  Getting off gas cooking has some good benefits for your health & indoor air quality.  But it won't be a major financial change unless you do a ton of cooking.  There was another thread on here somewhere about induction stoves being on sale for something like $1,100 at Lowe's, but I don't know if that's still available.

-Heat-pump HVAC is maybe saving us a couple hundred dollars a year.  I originally thought it would be closer to $500, but it seems to be using a bit more electricity in the winter than I originally expected.  Operating costs are still lower than gas, but just not by the margin I expected.  And this is a REALLY expensive project.  I'd say it's worth doing, but not until your HVAC is nearing replacement age.  Just don't wait for a complete failure, as parts are back-ordered and qualified installers are booked months in advance.

Heat pump water heater is already done.  $1700, on sale for $1200.  I'll be getting a $300 federal tax credit, so $900.  Got a $400 rebate from my electricity company, so $500.  Plumber installed it and took the existing water heater as payment at my suggestion.  Paid for the install and got the water heater out of my house.  I could have gotten a better deal with the 2023 incentives but I think it was worthwhile regardless.

I'll be getting some quotes on installing a heat pump, then figure out what I qualify for with the new IRA rebates and incentives.  If I do it, I'll want one of the extremely efficient models for maximum efficiency in colder weather, to help make it worthwhile.  I'm hoping the new incentives will allow me to do it at a very low cost.  My thoughts are to just run it alongside the existing gas furnace, effectively giving me gas heat as an emergency backup since ya know, its already installed and working.  Unless I can get a lot for it, maybe from the installer in exchange for labor? 

TomTX

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2022, 10:46:31 AM »
PTF

Been interested in solar panels for a while, because a) cool, and b) frequent power outages.

Anyone know what time(s) of day are best for collecting sunlight? Our roof is sunny in the morning but very shady in the afternoon. Tall trees.

Installers will give you good recommendations on this. It’s part of their job.

For the most part, roof angle and shade will dictate where they can go. Placement of roof elements and vents can also make a difference. Most homes only have 1-2 spots that really make sense.

They can do just fine facing any direction other than north, although there are angles that are slightly better.
Having at least some panels facing Southwest to West can be a benefit with some TOU pricing plans.

bacchi

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2022, 11:27:53 AM »
I'll be getting some quotes on installing a heat pump, then figure out what I qualify for with the new IRA rebates and incentives.  If I do it, I'll want one of the extremely efficient models for maximum efficiency in colder weather, to help make it worthwhile.  I'm hoping the new incentives will allow me to do it at a very low cost.  My thoughts are to just run it alongside the existing gas furnace, effectively giving me gas heat as an emergency backup since ya know, its already installed and working.  Unless I can get a lot for it, maybe from the installer in exchange for labor?

I'm going to do the same. I'll probably start with mini-splits in the bedrooms.

NorCal

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2022, 07:59:17 PM »
I'll be getting some quotes on installing a heat pump, then figure out what I qualify for with the new IRA rebates and incentives.  If I do it, I'll want one of the extremely efficient models for maximum efficiency in colder weather, to help make it worthwhile.  I'm hoping the new incentives will allow me to do it at a very low cost.  My thoughts are to just run it alongside the existing gas furnace, effectively giving me gas heat as an emergency backup since ya know, its already installed and working.  Unless I can get a lot for it, maybe from the installer in exchange for labor?

I'm going to do the same. I'll probably start with mini-splits in the bedrooms.

I would recommend doing it all at once instead of piecemeal. You can have one outside unit powering multiple inside units, which will save a lot on cost. I have a single outdoor unit powering an air handler plus two mini splits.

TomTX

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2022, 08:59:15 AM »
Something I've wondered - why does a split system cost so much more than a window unit of the same BTU rating? There isn't much difference other than longer lines.

Villanelle

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2022, 02:55:21 PM »
Something I've wondered - why does a split system cost so much more than a window unit of the same BTU rating? There isn't much difference other than longer lines.

I've wondered the same thing. 

Bartlebooth

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2022, 10:33:36 AM »
Something I've wondered - why does a split system cost so much more than a window unit of the same BTU rating? There isn't much difference other than longer lines.

Two control/logic boards and two chassis would be a big difference.  Also split systems tend to be inverter-type (more finely able to vary the output).  More need to offer (phone?) support to installers too.  More engineering for possible support of external thermostats and other little features like that.  Higher quality components overall as they are not designed to be sort of disposable like a window unit.

EchoStache

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2023, 01:05:31 PM »
Tesla came out yesterday to do an in person estimate since satellite images were incorrect.  They've come up with an 11.6 kW system according to the estimator which will all be on the backside of my roof.  29 panels with one blank spot due to a vent.  For what is honestly mostly aesthetic reasons, I'll probably have a roofer or plumber or whoever does it, relocate the vent so that there isn't a "hole" due to a missing panel in the middle of the roof.  Tesla said they can modify the vent and run flat ductwork under the panels, but agreed that having the vent relocated (not by them) would be a better solution if I decide I want a panel in that position.

I don't have an official design or price posted yet on the website so waiting for that.  I assume it will follow online pricing for an 11.6 or 12kW system.  11.6kW system shows to be $27,840 before incentives. $2.40/watt
Federal Tax Credit $8039
SREC -$1044(isn't this annual i.e. renews every year?)
System cost after tax credit $19801
After SREC $18,757.  This does not include tax.  So as I understand it, I would pay 27,840 plus tax so around $29,593.92 upfront or financed.

I did get a quote from one local company so far for an 11 kW system.  He tried to offer financing for 20-25 years with really low interest.  $49k before tax credit.  $34k *after* the tax credit.  Oof, I don't think so.  Wow: $4.45/watt!

I've reached out to one other local company to get a quote.  If Tesla is $10k+ cheaper than anyone else, I really don't think I will be able to justify it despite any problems one might encounter with Tesla.

If I end up moving forward with solar, I will be financing as I don't have the cash to pay in full.  One idea I have is to apply the tax rebate towards larger payments the first year to bring the balance down quickly.  I'll claim exempt so that no taxes are taken out of our pay.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2023, 01:12:50 PM by UltraStache »

grantmeaname

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2023, 04:17:41 PM »
You should look at financing it yourself with a HELOC or home equity loan. Every installer loan I found was really predatory terms - like a 50% upfront fee followed by a 'low interest' 2% annual rate, for something like a 10% APR if it were honestly disclosed.

Abe

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2023, 07:57:49 PM »
That’s about what I paid per watt for my similarly sized system. Seems reasonable! Good luck!

MiatAccountant

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2023, 09:20:42 AM »
Good luck UltraStache!

I just went through the installation of 11.6kW (29 panels) with a local company here in San Diego.
I didn't go with Tesla as they scared the crap out of me from all the reviews but looks like bryan995 had good experience here with Tesla so it really does depend.

I used a very reputable local contractor that I'm familiar from my work (I'm in solar industry) so went with them even though the pricing was significantly higher than Tesla and couple of other contractors I got a quote from.

Also good thing you're not in California. NEM 3.0 just recently passed (not favorable net metering) so many solar purchasers in California are scrambling to get grandfathered in to NEM 2.0 before the April 13, 2023 deadline.

As you probably figured, you will likely need to be patient. The installation doesn't take long but going from contract signing -->assessment-->revised contract/quote-->designing-->obtaining permit-->installation-->inspection-->PTO takes some time. For me, I signed the contract on 9/22/22 and got the PTO from SDGE on 12/30/22. This is while I "encouraged" all parties involved to stay on top of it while partnerning with the contractor's project manager (she was really good and very helpful).

Also something to check is your roof condition if Tesla didn't check during assessment. None of the solar company really brought this up during the quoting process with the exception of the contractor I went with. They recommended to repaper the roof for the sections where the solar panels would be installed if older than 15 years. My house/roof was in perfect condition with no leaks but was close to 20 years old, hence I did repaper (underlayment) the roof. Added cost but I know I don't have to deal with leaks for at least next 20 years for the roofing under the solar panels, if not longer. I just didn't want to have to uninstall the solar panels to fix any roof leaks in the future. Repapering took 5 days, solar install took 3 days to complete.

Also, do confirm the panel, inverter, and the mounting system they will be using. I see some contractors tries to cut cost here. Based on your quote, looks like they are installing 400W panels which is good (likely Hanwha Q-Cell G10+ which is what I got). I also got the Enphase microinverter IQ8M (some quotes I received was IQ8+ which is undersized for Qcell 400W so do verify) or not sure if Tesla has their own rebranded version of inverter from Enphase or SolarEdge. For mounting, our contractor used tile replacement QuickMount PV. This was useful for our concrete tile roof as part of the repapering, it would crack/damage some tiles. Since this mounting system replaces the tiles, it created spares we can use to replace the broken tiles (it all worked out nicely). Some cost cutting contractors would use something like L-bracket with roof caulking which won't last.

I didn't get the PowerWall as the quote I received added $16K for single unit which I thought was overpriced and horrible ROI.

Hope all goes smooth.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2023, 09:42:28 AM by MiatAccountant »

uniwelder

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2023, 12:47:52 PM »
Tesla came out yesterday to do an in person estimate since satellite images were incorrect.  They've come up with an 11.6 kW system according to the estimator which will all be on the backside of my roof.  29 panels with one blank spot due to a vent.  For what is honestly mostly aesthetic reasons, I'll probably have a roofer or plumber or whoever does it, relocate the vent so that there isn't a "hole" due to a missing panel in the middle of the roof.  Tesla said they can modify the vent and run flat ductwork under the panels, but agreed that having the vent relocated (not by them) would be a better solution if I decide I want a panel in that position.

A friend of mine owns a solar installation company and for the last few years, and rather than relocate vent pipes, they cut them about 3" above the roof.  The solar panels go right over top with a an inch or two clearance.  Vents are usually 18" tall where we're located to allow for snow accumulation, but snow won't build up much under a panel.  Inspectors have been fine with it.  Before anyone throws accusations of 'fly by night' solar contractor, he's been in business for the last 14 years and has done more than half the installations in this locality.

edited to add-- I looked up code and it seems 6" is the required minimum height above the roof, regardless of climate.  I guess my friend is not doing the work to code, but no-one is complaining.  Functionally, I'm not sure it makes a difference if its 3" or 6", but would love to hear back on opinions as to why it might matter.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2023, 12:59:28 PM by uniwelder »

EchoStache

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2023, 04:07:27 PM »
Interesting regarding just cutting the vent off shorter.  I mean, if its covered by a 3'x5' panel, I suppose the height doesn't really matter any more as long as its high enough to keep rain from gushing down into it as it runs down the roof.  It's certainly appealing to eliminate someone coming out, crawling into my attic with blown in insulation and no floor, rerouting a vent and cutting another hole in the roof.  I expect it will be fairly expensive for mostly just the aesthetic benefit of not having a big missing panel in what would be an otherwise nice uniformly covered roof.

I guess if I crawled up on the roof and just cut it short enough to fit under the panel right before they install, who the heck cares? 

Edit:  Not only does this appear to be a "why the heck not, no one will know" type of situation, but its apparently possibly legal by code:

"The code now recognizes that plumbing vents may be in the way, but they can actually share the space with solar panels. A complete rewrite of IRC section P3103.1 regarding rooftop DWV terminations now specifically allows solar panels to be placed over the top of plumbing vents. Of course, there are limitations, but they speak directly to the issue—air getting in and out of the vent. The vent, when protected from snow closure by the panel design, can be cut down from the minimum height of 6 in. to a height of only 2 in. above the roof."

https://www.finehomebuilding.com/2020/05/05/rules-for-rooftop-solar

Wow, tip of the day, thanks so much for bringing this to my attention!  Another 400 watts, a *much* better looking installation, and basically free modification of the vent(30 seconds with a hack saw)!!!
« Last Edit: January 08, 2023, 04:12:16 PM by UltraStache »

GilesMM

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2023, 04:37:12 PM »
I looked at Tesla but they don't do ground mount solar systems. Not sure why - it is not that different to roof top.  Got bids off energysage.com and chose a PNW company that sent out an outstanding engineer who managed the entire project from initial consultation right through construction and operations.  Price was comparable to Tesla 24 kw once you add in the ground mount and lined 300 bore feet for the cabling, about $2.60/w before state and fed incentives.  The panels and inverters have manufacturer warranty and almost anyone can replace one.  The ground mount was drilled 48 inches into the ground so I don't see it going anywhere.  We have had 50-60 mph winds this winter and the whole thing is rock solid.


Good luck!

GilesMM

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2023, 04:45:08 PM »
Should also note neighbors in a former semi-remote community are battling a power outage since last Wednesday forecast to continue to at least Tuesday.  Responses so far have ranged from evacuation to huddling in the cold to forms of backup. Backup generators running on propane are ok but batteries have mostly run out. Most ran two days.  One guy has a small setup to recharge his batteries with a propane generator.  Another guy ran out of battery juice but was able to plug in his 77 kw Kia EV6 car and is running off that now. As long as he doesn't completely deplete the car battery before power is restored he should be ok.  It makes a lot of sense to me to use an EV car as battery backup since it is many times larger than any battery you might buy for your garage, it is already IN your garage and it's paid for.

Just Joe

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2023, 12:08:45 PM »
Consider the cost of that propane. Our Kohler manual estimates $200 worth of propane per day to run 24 hours a day.

catccc

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2023, 12:32:14 PM »
On vents - I have also heard that it is okay to put panels over vents, but we decided to avoid it, anyway.  Our roof is high and perpendicular to the road, so I will barely see or mind the gap. 

If something happens, like the pipe collar needs to be replaced, it will be additional expense and hassle to have the panel removed to service the vent.  If you must, maybe consider pre-emptively installing a new quality vent collar?  I have heard good things about lifetime ultimate pipe flashing.  It is silicone and not rubber/plastic.  I actually insisted our roofer provide this rather than their basic/standard one when we replaced our roof last year.  (Or maybe you can determine this is unnecessary, I'm sure the panels provide some level of protection against the elements that would extend the life of the pipe and flashing.)

I'm in SE PA and I'm currently working with a local provider to install solar.  I vetted many installers (local, regional, and national) and got at least 7 quotes.  I reviewed panel and inverter manufacturers and specs, warranties, etc.  We are paying $25K ($3.10/watt) for 19 panels that are 425 watts, with degradation at year 25 of only 92%.  Panels are Sunpower and microinverters are Enphase, both warranted for 25 years (parts, labor AND shipping). 

Tesla def had a better price per watt, but we passed because of the degradation rate (80-85% at yr 25) and the old school string inverter & related lacking 12.5 yr warranty.  I feel like Tesla is banking on their household name recognition as a cutting edge company to win more business and make up for slimmer margins while providing an inferior product. But hey, that's just my feeling.

If you haven't locked in with Tesla yet and want to chat, feel free to send me a PM.  Also, if you use PECO, they have a typical issue with the interconnection process, and may demand a wire upgrade to be covered by the homeowner. 

Lastly, IDK what your cash flow and payment timeline look like, but if you could pay it off within 1-2 years, playing a game with 0% CCs could be a way to finance this.  Good luck!
« Last Edit: January 10, 2023, 12:35:10 PM by catccc »

catccc

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2023, 12:40:40 PM »
I however have a recommendation for a valid local company that has done solar on my neighbor’s home and she is happy with them.

Despite the recommendation, you may want to do your own due diligence.  This is not solar, but we used a contractor for some exterior work recommended by two neighbors and were really unhappy with the experience, unfortunately.  We actually paid to have the work re-done after almost a year of trying to let it go, it was that bad!  Also, if you go about vetting vendors yourself, remember these solar folks are salespeople, usually very good ones.  They will be charming, personable, and they will make everything seem like a great deal.

EchoStache

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2023, 07:02:07 AM »
A 2nd local company came out and looked at the house last week.  I haven't received a bid, as I think he wants to come out and discuss in person.  I'm not thrilled with that idea; if it turns into a "if you sign up today we can give you an extra special good deal", it will be a hell no.  He knows I've gotten a ballpark quote from Tesla and he assures me he'll come in quite a bit higher, probably closer to the other installer at $49k.  I don't have the exact numbers yet but it sounds like he'll be well above $40k.  If it's $45k, I just don't know that there is any way to justify a 50% higher cost.

Tesla does not use micro inverters, and the warranty is 12.5 years.

I'm concerned Tesla may try to use only a single 7.6kW inverter for my 11.6-12kW system.  I know undersizing somewhat can be actually beneficial, but I think a single 7.6 will be far too small?  The next step up will be a 7.6+3.8 for 11.4kW total, and I'm not really sure how much better this will be compared to just a single 7.6.  11.4 sounds almost too big for an 11.6-12kW system and the extra inverter certainly drives the material cost up quite a bit.

Tesla has not updated the system design yet since the on site inspection has been done, so basically waiting for that.  I did send a message a couple days ago.

Exact update:
Me: 1/15/2023 My account still shows the wrong solar system on the wrong house.  An on site inspection was done before 1/7 and my account still does not show the updated configuration.
Tesla: 1/16/2023 We're waiting on the design team and they are working through a backlog of requests.

I should probably reach out for more local/non Tesla quotes but so far no one seems close enough in cost to warrant consideration.

Edit: I played around on PVWatts a bit and I get:
12kW with 7.6kW inverter = 15,728kWh/year
12kW with 11.4kW inverter = 16,179kWh/year
Difference 451kWh.  At my current rate of .16/kWh, that is $72/year difference.
$720/10 years
$1440/20 years.   I doubt this would justify the cost of adding a 3.8kW inverter to go from 7.6kW to 11.4kW.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2023, 11:32:11 AM by UltraStache »

uniwelder

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Re: Tesla Solar
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2023, 11:28:51 AM »
Edit: I played around on PVWatts a bit and I get:
12kW with 7.6kW inverter = 15,728kWh/year
12kW with 11.4kW inverter = 16,179kWh/year
Difference 451kWh.  At my current rate of .16/kWh, that is $72/year difference.
$720/10 years
$1440/20 years.   I doubt this would justify the cost of adding a 3.8kW inverter to go from 7.6 to 11.4.

That's really cool.  I have never seen that function in PVWatts before.  I found it under advanced parameters for DC to AC ratio.  Its amazing how little difference undersizing the inverter does to overall annual output.  I've been told peak output rarely happens in my area, and this helps confirm with some actual numbers.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!