Tell me about your hobbies and MMM

[Chris22]

Not looking to start an argument here, but I am genuinely curious. 

For MMM, most of the things that he seems to love to do are pretty cheap.  He's got his bikes, his hikes, his parks, and home improvement projects.  None require significant capital except maybe the home improvement stuff, but even that can be more of an investment than just blown cash. 

For me, my hobbies are more spendy.  Not extravagently spendy like showing horses or RVing or racing yachts, but still cash-intensive.  I like to work on and drive my sports car, play golf, snowmobile, travel, and even digital photography can be moderately expensive in terms of buying equipment and computing power. 

So given that, and that the point of retirement is to spend more time doing what you WANT to do, to me I have to save enough to A) cover my cost of living (food, shelter/utilities/etc) and B) support spending MORE my hobbies.  It would be pretty easy for my hobby spending to go up dramatically if I didn't go to work; I'd spend more time playing golf, want a second sports car to play with, travel more, etc.  If I can't spend more time on my hobbies, well, I'd rather just be at work, you know?

So my question would be, do hardcore MMM types intentionally choose less expensive hobbies in order to retire early, or is part of the MMM thing just to gravitate towards cheaper stuff?  Do you intentionally avert your eyes from more $$$ stuff you might rather be doing, or do you just look at that stuff as wasteful?  I mean, I get trying to save money and FIRE and all that, and it's admirable, but literally, if I can't afford to stay home and play with my cars, if I have to sell a car to retire and go hike in the mountains every day, well shit, I'd rather just be at work.  At some point the heart wants what it wants, and while I admire people with no cost hobbies, that just doesn't interest me, so I wonder how that chicken/egg question is resolved for others.

[Retire-Canada]

My hobbies:

- travelling
- mountain biking
- fly fishing
- surfing/kiteboarding
- photography
- motorcycles

Can all be crazy expensive or quite reasonable depending on my choices.

My FIRE budget includes 25% for these activities. So I'm going to save 25% more than I would have otherwise. That's nothing to sneeze at, but I love these things so it's worth it to me.

I could easily spend 3 or 10 times what I do on these hobbies which would impact my FIRE plans accordingly. I'm at the $$ amount in my budget by examining the cost/benefit relationship to spending more and having to work more to pay for it.

If I want a flash new MTB each season I'll not get to enjoy the fancy bikes as much as if I make one last many years only doing maintenance and minor upgrades. I'm not getting any younger so I know I have to enjoy this hobby while I can. It will not be possible for my entire retirement and every year I spend working full time means one less year of prime health to ride.

That 25% of my budget is also a big chunk I can trim if my investments tank and I need to reduce costs.

-- Vik

[thd7t]

MMM has some pretty extensive travel in there, as well.  Often months away.  It's easy to focus on the less expensive ones, but I think travel is a popular MMM option (not for everyone) and not inherently inexpensive.

My hobbies are usually handmaking things and food related, but they can expand to fit just about any budget.

[Chris22]

MMM has some pretty extensive travel in there, as well.  Often months away.  It's easy to focus on the less expensive ones, but I think travel is a popular MMM option (not for everyone) and not inherently inexpensive.

I think the way MMM travels and the way my wife and I travel are pretty different.  For one, I don't camp.  I usually want to go places other people also want to go, so it's not dirt cheap to do so (for instance, two of my recent trips were Maui and St. John USVI).

[EricP]

Having costly hobbies is fine, you'll just need to work a little longer to make it to FIRE.

Alternatively, look for ways to make your hobbies cheaper or make money off your hobbies.  Walk the Course and it will cost half as much, look for a place that offers a year long unlimited range pass and then only golf 18 half as much.

You talk about enjoying working on cars, maybe consider fixing up friends cars for a little extra cash.  You enjoy photography, have you considering being a part-time photographer.  Offer to do some weddings and that can split your costs.

Get creative and I'm sure you can find ways to minimize your costs.

[thd7t]

MMM has some pretty extensive travel in there, as well.  Often months away.  It's easy to focus on the less expensive ones, but I think travel is a popular MMM option (not for everyone) and not inherently inexpensive.

I think the way MMM travels and the way my wife and I travel are pretty different.  For one, I don't camp.  I usually want to go places other people also want to go, so it's not dirt cheap to do so (for instance, two of my recent trips were Maui and St. John USVI).

He definitely rented a house in HI for a few months at one point and I think spent a season in South America.  The first one seems like a different way to approach your style of travel if you have more freedom/longer timelines.

[Slam]

I think this is one of the biggest misconceptions I read about here.  This is not about depriving yourself and never spending money.  It's about doing the things you love, but in a mindful way that costs less, and is not wasteful.

If you like golf, skip the driving range and get some of those whiffle balls and practice your swing in the front yard.  Go play at the public course for less than half the price.  Get one of those bags with wheels instead of renting a cart every time.  High end clubs that are super lightweight are also probably flimsier and more likely to break.  The pros don't mind because they get them for free.  You don't need those.  Get the slightly cheaper ones that are just a little heavier, but much sturdier and will last ten times as long.

[Chris22]

Having costly hobbies is fine, you'll just need to work a little longer to make it to FIRE.

Alternatively, look for ways to make your hobbies cheaper or make money off your hobbies.  Walk the Course and it will cost half as much, look for a place that offers a year long unlimited range pass and then only golf 18 half as much.

You talk about enjoying working on cars, maybe consider fixing up friends cars for a little extra cash.  You enjoy photography, have you considering being a part-time photographer.  Offer to do some weddings and that can split your costs.

Get creative and I'm sure you can find ways to minimize your costs.

In my experience, the fastest way to make something you enjoy into a chore is to make it "for profit".

I'm not necessarily looking to minimize my costs.  My question is more "do hardcore MMM types have $$$ hobbies, or do they sacrifice them for the sake of FIRE?"


And I always walk 18 (actually, usually just play 9 at a time) unless I plan to drink heavily ;)

[EricP]

MMM has some pretty extensive travel in there, as well.  Often months away.  It's easy to focus on the less expensive ones, but I think travel is a popular MMM option (not for everyone) and not inherently inexpensive.

My hobbies are usually handmaking things and food related, but they can expand to fit just about any budget.

But going to Canada and staying with family is likely not what OP is talking about when he says "Travel."  And going to Hawaii to fix up a guy's bathroom is hardly feasible (or enjoyable) for everyone.  MMM has many unique opportunities in the area of travel, that most people do not have.

[Slam]

"do hardcore MMM types have $$$ hobbies, or do they sacrifice them for the sake of FIRE?"

Can all be crazy expensive or quite reasonable depending on my choices.
-- Vik

I agree here: my hobbies could be very expensive if I wanted them to be.  I choose to do them inexpensively.

[EricP]

Having costly hobbies is fine, you'll just need to work a little longer to make it to FIRE.

Alternatively, look for ways to make your hobbies cheaper or make money off your hobbies.  Walk the Course and it will cost half as much, look for a place that offers a year long unlimited range pass and then only golf 18 half as much.

You talk about enjoying working on cars, maybe consider fixing up friends cars for a little extra cash.  You enjoy photography, have you considering being a part-time photographer.  Offer to do some weddings and that can split your costs.

Get creative and I'm sure you can find ways to minimize your costs.

In my experience, the fastest way to make something you enjoy into a chore is to make it "for profit".

I'm not necessarily looking to minimize my costs.  My question is more "do hardcore MMM types have $$$ hobbies, or do they sacrifice them for the sake of FIRE?"


And I always walk 18 (actually, usually just play 9 at a time) unless I plan to drink heavily ;)

Then when it becomes a chore stop doing it for profit.  It's either lower the costs or work for a few more years.  That choice is yours.  Do the math and figure out exactly how long we are talking about and make the choice for yourself.

To answer the direct question, Yes, I have some expensive hobbies as well(skiing), and I'm not going to sacrifice them to get to retirement 8 months sooner.

[Chris22]

Then when it becomes a chore stop doing it for profit.  It's either lower the costs or work for a few more years.  That choice is yours.

That is my question.  Do most people have RE as the goal and trim hobbies to accomodate, or do you design your hobbies into your RE finances, and if the latter, do you intentionally chose hobbies that allow you to RE?  IOW, which is more important, RE, or supporting the things you want to do in RE?

[Eric]

My question is more "do hardcore MMM types have $$$ hobbies, or do they sacrifice them for the sake of FIRE?"

I think this question still frames the issue incorrectly.  FIRE shouldn't be a sacrifice at all.  If so, you could be setting yourself up to fail.

There are numerous people around here who have planned for a larger spending budget after FIRE.  But I don't think that has anything to do with sacrifice until that time arrives (arrived).  I think it's more like you alluded to earlier.  You'll have more time to spend doing what you love.  If what you love is going to cost you more money, then you'll need to decide if it's worth delaying the arrival of your freedom versus changing your source of entertainment.

But entertaining yourself or consciously choosing inexpensive hobbies is a strange thing.  At first, it might feel weird seeking out inexpensive options.  But then it will become second nature.  And after a while, you'll never even understood why this wasn't your first choice.  As a personal example, my wife and I now run all our errands by bike.  It takes a little bit longer, but we find that we're much happier doing it.  Whenever we get stuck in the car trying to do the same things, it feels like a chore.  But by bike, it's a lot fun.  Same end result, but the cheaper process makes us happier.

[Cookie78]

I don't want to give up my hobbies to FIRE earlier, but I do intend to put any major/expensive travel on hold for the next 2-3 years to get there earlier. I also expect that after I FIRE I will be able to travel more (and slowly) to make up for it.

I think it's important to still be able to do the things you love to do. But in my case I have travelled a lot already and I don't mind setting that aside for a few years. I'll also still have quick trips to Phoenix and to visit my family and maybe a couple trips to the BC coast, so I'm not cutting it out completely.

I wouldn't FIRE if it meant I couldn't afford to travel anymore. Lucky for me I have always preferred cheaper ways to travel.

[PtboEliz]

There was a good MMM post that relates to this - http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/05/get-rich-with-profitable-leisure-time/

What if there were a way to get the same happiness out of different activities? What if we thought about our leisure time as a blank slate on which to paint a picture of happiness, instead of just a clean lake through which to drive our motorboat? It is easier than it sounds. The key is to  make a list of all the things you think you might enjoy doing. I’ll try it out right now on myself.

Learning to fly an airplane
Playing in the sparkling glacier-fed local creek with my son
Surfing on Kauai’i’s North shore
Carving through canyons on a silent bicycle
Downhill mountain bike riding at a ski resort
Renovating my own kitchen
Picking out a new outfit at a high-end men’s store
Planting a garden
Carving through canyons on a sporty motorcycle
Canoeing in the local lakes
Mountain bike riding in the mountains at the edge of town

All of the things above sound fun to me. But now I can sort the list based on how expensive they are, cheapest ones first:

Playing in the sparkling glacier-fed local creek with my son ($0)
Carving through canyons on a silent bicycle ($0 – $10 if you break up the cost of bike ownership across many rides)
Canoeing in the local lakes ($0 – $10)
Mountain bike riding in the mountains at the edge of town ($5 to cover round-trip car mileage)
Planting a garden ($100/year of plants and materials – averaging to $2 per hour of gardening)
Renovating my own kitchen ($4000 of materials but actually a NEGATIVE cost if you do a good job and eventually sell your house)
Carving through canyons on a sporty motorcycle ($100 if you average out motorcycle ownership costs and gas)
Downhill mountain bike riding at a ski resort ($100 for transportation and lift tickets)
Picking out a new outfit at a high-end men’s store ($400?)
Surfing on Kauai’i’s North shore ($200/day)
Learning to fly an airplane ($300/day)

Wow, reviewing the list, I see that there are already more than enough activities in the first half of that list to use up ALL of my free time. But they are just as much fun to me as the expensive ones at the end of the list.. especially since I like things that are peaceful and give my mind a rest. And if you care at all about the Earth, there are obvious advantages too.

Many people where I live in Colorado have mountain activities as their default or only leisure activity. They typically visit sites that are 100 miles into the mountains, away from the cities at the base of the mountains where we live. At the IRS standard rate of $0.50 per mile, they are spending $100 per weekend on transportation, on top of a restaurant meal or two, various outdoor gear purchases, ski passes in the winter, etc. The average mountainist probably spends $250/month on the mountain habit.

Let’s compare a Mountainist to a Money Mustachist – the MM goes deep into the mountains only four times per year, but really makes the most of it those four times. For the rest of her outdoor leisure, she enjoys the closer locations that require minimal driving and no overnight condo rentals. Her average mountain costs are $50/month.  This $200/month savings becomes $35,400 after ten years with compounding. Yet both of these people get outdoors every weekend, enjoying amazing scenery and fresh air that would make most of the world’s population jealous.

As an expansion of this idea, consider hobbies that actually EARN you money. If you like renovating or gardening, blogging to a big audience or selling stuff on ebay, you can actually reverse the treadmill of leisure spending. For example: over a five year period in the early 2000s, I spent about a third of my weekends remodeling my first home. It was incredibly fun and it got me started on the path to more serious house building work. But it also helped increase the value of this house, after subtracting materials costs, by about $50,000. I also moved out of this house and rented it out for five additional years, which brought some appreciation. All-told, this hobby brought in about $120,000 over ten years. And it provided countless hours of entertainment, which could have been spent in more costly ways like shopping or airplane-flying.

The mountains are amazingly beautiful. But so are so many other things, including the feeling of waking up on a Monday morning and realizing you don’t have to go to work unless you want to – today or any other day. So make your own leisure list.

[snogirl]

My most expensive hobbies are skiing & snowmobiling.
The plus is I own my equipment & live right near the trails.
My sled is the least expensive 4 stroke (Ski Doo 600 Ace) that gets like 30 mpg.
I cannot imagine not doing it after retiring from the military.
 It is my most favorite thing to do in winter.
For skiing, I take advantage of my military discount as much as possible.
Other less costly hobbies are hiking, riding my bicycle (street & mountain), drawing, reading (free books from dump or library), geocaching.

[Zikoris]

Travel costs me quite a bit. Around 4k/year.

Ballet costs a fair bit - about $800/year for class once a week.

Hiking and biking are pretty minimal, though I intend to upgrade from a $40 bike to a $250 bike this summer.

Cooking and baking projects are less than zero because they produce my meals and snacks.

Reading is pretty minimal - a few ebooks purchased per year for less than $10 each, and the rest come from the library.

That's about it for me.

[ketchup]

It's all about efficiency and value.  I like that MMM post PtboEliz referenced.

There are plenty of expensive hobbies that can be done cheaply or turned into jobs.

Example: We show Australian Shepherds.  Yeah, typically crazy hemorrhaging of cash and hilariously inefficient (and we see plenty of this).  But we do it smartly.  We don't buy a $80,000 4MPG RV and pay $10/lb for fancy-ass dog food. We drive to dog shows in our $700 Buick Roadmaster Wagon and make our own raw meals for our dogs.  In fact, my girlfriend's entire income these days is from photography at dog shows, so it's turned a hobby into a job.

And then there are hobbies like cooking and home renovation that help build your health and wealth.  Those are by far the most "productive."

[The Pigeon]

My most expensive hobby is music. I play semi-professionally. On Saturday morning I'll wake up and upgrade to "Professional," as that will be my only earned income! Yay FIRE! :-)
So my hobby earns money, but not steadily, and there's little consistency in gig pay.

I've acquired most of the equipment I'll ever need, but musicians are like magpies, and we're always attracted to the new shiny thing. So there's always some gear cost. Outlay for rehearsals, gas, food, etc., I also pay for instruction. I've never done the balance sheets for this hobby, but I know I spend more than I earn. Now that I'll be retired, though, I can take on more gigs!

My other hobby is cycling, and again I have all the gear I'll ever need, but same thing applies to cyclists as applies to musicians... The number of bikes/guitars to own is n+1--"n" being the number you have now. ;-) There are expenses like organized ride fees, gas for "away rides" and lunches with the gang after the ride is over. There's no possibility of earning money from cycling, other than when your buddies chip in for gas or buy you a beer!

In general, once these "expensive" hobbies are mostly equipped, the outlay then is less of an issue, but they both generate an ongoing expense.

-The Pigeon

[kpd905]

Hiking and backpacking are my big ones.  So far we have used credit cards to fund many different trips to national parks for nearly free.  I still have a lot of parks I want to get to, so I plan to continue the credit card churning.

Even if the credit card offers dried up, a national parks trip makes for a relatively cheap vacation, especially if you can stretch out the length to a few weeks so spread out the cost of getting there.

[Noodle]

I think it depends at what point you discover the idea of FIRE. If you make that a goal early in your working career, then sure, you just don't pick expensive hobbies. A lot of people also find that if they start a family, for a few years the time for ANY hobbies (regardless of cost) disappears, and when they pick them up again, they might not opt for the pricey ones. But plenty of people arrive at MMM with preferences or needs that mean they will be saving for more than the bare minimum of retirement, whether that's living in a high COL area because that's where the extended family is, or budgeting for lift tickets if life isn't worth living without downhill skiing.

[Jon_Snow]

Most of my hobbies require a sizeable initial investment (sea kayaks, deep space telescopes) but since I am fanatical about looking after my stuff, these things last for decades. My touring kayak is 17 years old and even with thousands of miles on it it looks shiny and new.

Exploring the gorgeous places of the world, land or sea, and gazing deep into the night sky are FREE activities that will never lose their appeal to me.

Fishing costs me a bit of money, but the equipment is paid for twenty fold by the food I am able to catch. Gardening is rapidly becoming one of my core hobbies - and again, the benefits (food) more than help offset any costs.

A "money pit" type of hobby is of very little interest to me.

[milesdividendmd]

There are many different ways to get to your chosen destination.

Pete is a genius and an absolute inspiration to me because he made me realize that spending is a choice to exchange freedom (from having to work) for goods and services.

In Pete's calculus, consumption is often unwise in this context, and I tend to agree (but not always).

To me the only litmus test that makes sense is the happiness test.

If I feel that a prospective purchase will bring me more happiness than the future freedom that the money spent would afford me, then it is a purchase worth making...

My hobbies:

Travel (travel hacking)
Investing
Golf
Cooking
Craft cocktail making/clear ice making
Walking/running
Writing
Eating out
Skiing
Fly fishing

[Emilyngh]

Most of my hobbies have always been pretty low cost:

-gardening (growing food mostly)
-cooking (food we eat)
-crafting useful inexpensive things/decorating our home in a practical/inexpensive way
-planning stuff (eg, financial planning)
-organizing and developing systems to improve efficiency in our lives

The one that I used to really lean on that wasn't so frugal was shopping.   This was mostly shopping for deals on clothing and crap for the home.   But, since around MMM I've come to realize that I've shopped all I really need to, I have more than enough crap, and it's really not of value to me anymore.

[happy]

In reality there are more great things out there that I could potentially enjoy than I have time to do - already plenty of these lists posted. So it is no burden to me to choose the cheaper ones, or make hobbies out of things that optimise/support my MMM goals.

There is only one exception to this, and that is that I have had a life long desire to have a horse which I've never seriously looked into because of cost/impracticality. Still haven't done it and I don't want to work extra to do it.  If an opportunity arose like some sort of fairytale windfall, I'd grab it both hands. However it does keep emerging as a fairly strong desire.  But if I go to my death bed with that as a regret, I'm not sure that would be the worst thing ever. I do think there is a first world view that we mustn't arrive on our death bed and really wish we'd done something else or more in our time, but hey that to me is unrealistic. You can't live a perfectly intentionally designed life with no regrets what so ever. You can only get it mostly right, and the key things often do not involve money.

[spud1987]

I have three hobbies:

(1) trail running - super cheap, especially since I live within walking distance of some pretty amazing trails. I probably spend 200/year on this hobby (shoes, clothes, gas for the 5-10 times I drive to a trail, maybe a race or two)

(2) cycling - both road and mountain. pretty expensive start up costs (my road bike was 1200 and mountain bike was 600), but not too bad after the initial costs. plus I use my road bike as my commuting bike, so in a way that hobby "pays" for itself. I probably spend 200/year here as well (tires, chain lube, bike tools, bike shorts, etc.)

(3)  woodworking - this is the one that is blowing my budget. I started this hobby last year and the start up costs are pretty high, especially since I was starting from scratch. I've already spent 1200 on basic tools and materials to build my workbench. To have a nearly complete shop, I will likely sink another 5000 into tools. The problem is, I will need to continue spending money to buy wood for projects.  I expect to spend about 2000 a year.

Following MMM's advice, I could turn my woodworking hobby into a moneymaker, or at least make it cost-neutral. However, my skills aren't up to a level yet where I could sell anything, and I don't want to plan on it happening anytime soon.

[Insanity]

Guess I forgot to list my main hobbies - all mostly free or very low cost.

Beach volleyball - $0 cost. Just a ball (nets & lines are already provided and set up at beach by city) and almost no clothes needed.

Indoor volleyball - $2 for pick up games that can last for hours at night. More if I play ion a league but still cheap.

Where are you?  Need a partner :)

[cdttmm]

I have hobbies that are either currently costing me a fair amount of money or that have cost me a fair amount of money in the past.

1) Tae Kwon Do: I currently spend about $1000 per year for a gym membership, special classes, and gear. Prior to earning my black belt, I spent a bit less as I didn't have the cost of special classes. But, I also now earn ~$8000 a year as an instructor that I didn't earn previously.

2) Beekeeping: initial start-up costs a decade ago were in the $500-$600 range, but adding new hives, upgrading equipment, and just general maintenance related costs run about $300-$400 per year. Last year I spent an additional $250 to take a three day workshop on queen rearing. This year I'll spend about an extra $1000 in an attempt to get certified as a master beekeeper. Of course, I now earn ~$8000 a year as a beekeeping instructor that I didn't earn previously so I'll recoup all my costs pretty quickly if I can keep this up.

3) Ultrarunning: shoes and gear have been really inexpensive over past 10 years that I've been doing this. I live a half mile from an extensive trail network so just run out my back door. I was only racing 1x per year for many years and that was close enough for a day trip. But the past few year I've increased my racing goals and that's gotten expensive. I project I'll spend close to $10,000 to race 4x this year. That includes race entry fees, plane tickets, rental cars, hotel rooms,and meals while traveling. I'm fine with this expense as it will likely be the only year I have it. I decided to make a big push to hit a bunch of goals this year so that I can retire from racing.

[Blatant]

Pretty serious about mountain biking. I'm something of a gear nut. Each of my current bikes cost between $2,500 (for the single speed) and more like $5k for the fully.

I don't feel bad at all about it as it's about the only thing I spend money on. And, to be honest, the biggest reason I want to RE is to have the freedom and time to ride daily.

[webguy]

These are things I do on a regular basis and the associated costs:

Play drums - have a kit in a spare room and play at church once a month
Cost: $5000 initially. ~$20/month for gas an drumsticks

Play basketball - pickup ball twice a week and a league once a week every season
Cost: $200/year for leagues

Play volleyball - pickup volleyball once a week and league once a week during spring/summer/fall
Cost: $250/year

Play soccer - league once per week
Cost: $400/year

Weight lifting - 3 times per week. Have equipment in basement.
Cost: $300 initially. $0 ongoing

Running - 2 times per week and occasional race
Cost: $80/year

Cycling - 2/3 times per week plus occasional race/event
Cost: $1400 initially for bike and gear. $70/year ongoing

Working on my business - every day! I really enjoy this.
Cost: $0

I didn't deliberately choose these hobbies based on cost, these are just things I enjoy doing. If you enjoy something then I don't think you should choose not to do it based on cost. Life is too short! Live it doing the things you enjoy!

[gt7152b]

My hobbies are mountain biking, snowboarding, diy tinkering on cars, the house, electronics, whatever is broken. Any of these hobbies could be insanely expensive or on a barebones budget. I've seen guys that buy a new $12k bike every year and I even have a couple that were nearly $3k but I am basically set for at least a decade. MMM snowboards as well and that can be a crazy expensive hobby up to buying a second home on the slopes. It can also be done on a 15yr old board and a $200 season pass which is how I roll.

[patrickza]

I used to paraglide almost every chance I got. Can be the most expensive form of aviation per hour flown if you count the amount of driving to faraway sites, relatively expensive equipment, and low amount of airtime you often get (or none!). That said, I loved it, and gave it up more because I couldn't spend both weekend days on the mountain after my son was born.

Then I got into building electric things, but stopped after 2 bikes and two stand up scooters. The bikes will pay for themselves in the next few years, so they're not too expensive.

Now I'm all about the free hobbies. Cycling, hiking etc. Post fire I also want to do some sailing, but hopefully I can crew for people and not have to pay for that!

[lordmetroid]

For my hobbies I play Warhammer, Flames of War and Magic the gathering with my friends.
I also enjoy running a small hobby boutique and programming webapps.

[Chris22]

And then there are hobbies like cooking and home renovation that help build your health and wealth.  Those are by far the most "productive."

Most of my cooking is pretty "gourmet" (elaborate pasta dishes), or it's BBQ.  Delicious and pretty inexpensive, but hardly healthy.  That's why my wife does most of the cooking and I just do special occasions.

I do think grilling/BBQ is my most inexpensive hobby; I've got <$500 worth of "stuff" (a fairly high end Weber charcoal grill and a smoker, both of which should last 20 years) and aside from the occasional $20 gadget, it's just meat and charcoal and wood. 

[hoosier]

My hobbies are pretty low cost and/or generate money:

1.   Gardening – I have a 4,000 square foot garden that obviously produces a ton of food.  We can and freeze a lot of it.  8-9 months out of the year we don’t need to buy many vegetables.  We also have some fruit trees.  Last year we made 80 gallons of apple cider and 20 gallons of apple sauce.  I make a little $ from selling a few things here and there, but we eat most of the profit.
2.   Chickens – I started raising pastured broilers this year.  I raise enough that I can sell some and get my share for free.
3.   Firewood – I LOVE cutting firewood.  It is amazing exercise and virtually eliminates my home heating costs.  I sell some to my neighbors which more than offsets my cost for fuel and equipment for the year.
4.   Woodworking – I got into this a couple years ago when we remodeled our kitchen and I had to build several cabinets (buying new cabinets was going to be astronomically expensive).  The savings from building cabinets saved way more money than the tools cost.  My family has land that we harvest timber from worked out a deal with a sawyer, so hardwood lumber is essentially free minus my time.  I build a few pieces a year where I make the majority of my profit from selling them the materials (a deal for both of us).
5.   Auto Repair – I do all my own maintenance and have started doing some for others.  Just simple stuff like a brake job, belts, hoses, etc. 

In a few years, I’m hoping this will become the norm, not just a hobby.  Perfect day is as follows:

Wake up and tend the chickens.  Make something out of wood (firewood or some furniture), then eat a good “free” meal of garden produce and some of the best chicken on the planet.  Maybe tinker on a car a little.  Shower and repeat.

[acroy]

 I like to work on and drive my sports car.....

Hahahaha!! I have that bad habit too dammitt :)
It's all about 'Life Optimization'. Money is just a means to an end. YOU have to figure out if it's worth it!

In my specific case, yes it is worth the 2% of pre-FIRE income for the hobby. once FIRED I plan to relocate to a location where I can indulge in cheaper hobbies.

MMM is practicing 'life optimization':
-400k house in a beautiful area with lots of outdoor activities
-$$ on pricey food & home furnishings
-low cost activites

I am in the opposite boat while working towards FIRE:
-cheap house in a relatively ugly area with limited outdoor activities
-cheap food and minimized $$ on house
-spendy-er activities

FIRE plan is to be more like MMM: nicer location, give up the $$ hobby.

[TheContinentalOp]

Chess - which can be pretty cheap. Or you can blow a lot on big money tournaments
Biking - Planning on biking from DC to Pittsburgh in 2 weeks and camping along the way. So pretty cheap for a vacation
Hiking - Climbing the highest point in all 50 states. 35 down so far. The Air travel can be expensive
Photography - I have a blog that makes enough money to cover my equipment and travel expenses
Writing - It's free. May even make some money when I start publishing ebooks next month.

[Kris]

 I like to work on and drive my sports car.....

Hahahaha!! I have that bad habit too dammitt :)
It's all about 'Life Optimization'. Money is just a means to an end. YOU have to figure out if it's worth it!

In my specific case, yes it is worth the 2% of pre-FIRE income for the hobby. once FIRED I plan to relocate to a location where I can indulge in cheaper hobbies.

MMM is practicing 'life optimization':
-400k house in a beautiful area with lots of outdoor activities
-$$ on pricey food & home furnishings
-low cost activites

I am in the opposite boat while working towards FIRE:
-cheap house in a relatively ugly area with limited outdoor activities
-cheap food and minimized $$ on house
-spendy-er activities

FIRE plan is to be more like MMM: nicer location, give up the $$ hobby.

I think the "life optimization" concept is something to keep in mind here.

As is the idea that when we purchase things, "we are just buying feelings."

What do I mean by this?  Well, everyone has things that they like to do in their spare time, whether that be watching TV, reading, playing video games, sailing, shopping, scrapbooking, playing golf, etc.

Some of these things are very expensive.  Some of them, essentially free.

But the thing is, the reason we do them is that we enjoy the way we feel when we are doing them.

To me, what's more important than just "how much the hobby costs" is to think about why it costs so much, and what are we buying with it?

For example, let's say I have expensive hobby X. (I don't want to pick one because I don't want to offend anyone who might have this hobby.)  This hobby requires special equipment and a designated place to do it.  Participating in this hobby once a week costs me, say, $400-500/month.

Is that "bad", per se?  Well, maybe, maybe not.  But what the mustachian in me says is, am I spending that money purely because I really like the feeling of doing that particular thing, and there is no way to get that feeling otherwise?  Or, am I spending that money because buying the top of the line equipment and doing it at the designated place where I pay top dollar to participate makes me feel successful and shiny? 

If it really is the first, well then, hey, go for it.  But if, after honest reflection, it's a healthy dose of the second as well, well then... I think maybe I'm just mostly purchasing the feeling of an identity.  And maybe, just maybe, that's something that is enslaving me more than it is providing me with enjoyment.

[LSK]

For my hobbies I play Warhammer [...]

I am glad, I am not alone here in having such a ridiculously un-mustachian hobby - Oh well, we all have our weak spots :-)

[Chris22]

 I like to work on and drive my sports car.....

Hahahaha!! I have that bad habit too dammitt :)
It's all about 'Life Optimization'. Money is just a means to an end. YOU have to figure out if it's worth it!

In my specific case, yes it is worth the 2% of pre-FIRE income for the hobby. once FIRED I plan to relocate to a location where I can indulge in cheaper hobbies.

MMM is practicing 'life optimization':
-400k house in a beautiful area with lots of outdoor activities
-$$ on pricey food & home furnishings
-low cost activites

I am in the opposite boat while working towards FIRE:
-cheap house in a relatively ugly area with limited outdoor activities
-cheap food and minimized $$ on house
-spendy-er activities

FIRE plan is to be more like MMM: nicer location, give up the $$ hobby.

I think the "life optimization" concept is something to keep in mind here.

As is the idea that when we purchase things, "we are just buying feelings."

What do I mean by this?  Well, everyone has things that they like to do in their spare time, whether that be watching TV, reading, playing video games, sailing, shopping, scrapbooking, playing golf, etc.

Some of these things are very expensive.  Some of them, essentially free.

But the thing is, the reason we do them is that we enjoy the way we feel when we are doing them.

To me, what's more important than just "how much the hobby costs" is to think about why it costs so much, and what are we buying with it?

For example, let's say I have expensive hobby X. (I don't want to pick one because I don't want to offend anyone who might have this hobby.)  This hobby requires special equipment and a designated place to do it.  Participating in this hobby once a week costs me, say, $400-500/month.

Is that "bad", per se?  Well, maybe, maybe not.  But what the mustachian in me says is, am I spending that money purely because I really like the feeling of doing that particular thing, and there is no way to get that feeling otherwise?  Or, am I spending that money because buying the top of the line equipment and doing it at the designated place where I pay top dollar to participate makes me feel successful and shiny? 

If it really is the first, well then, hey, go for it.  But if, after honest reflection, it's a healthy dose of the second as well, well then... I think maybe I'm just mostly purchasing the feeling of an identity.  And maybe, just maybe, that's something that is enslaving me more than it is providing me with enjoyment.

That's fair.  Apply it to a hobby of mine, golf.  Yes, if I was playing Pebble Beach for $400 every week, you have a point.  I could play somewhere far cheaper.

But I'm talking about simply spending more time on it.  So I play a course 1-2x a week.  A 9-hole round costs me ~$18.  Figure I have a hot dog and a beer when I'm done, and I lose a ball every once in a while, make that $30.  I spend $30-60/week on golf.

But now I have all this time on my hands, maybe I want to play 3-4x a week.  So my budget has to basically double (yeah, yeah, skip the hot dog, whatever). 

Sure, I could play less golf, or I could try and find ways to make it cheaper, but that, to me, defeats the purpose of retiring to have more time doing what I want.  Which I think kind of gets at the heart of my question, if you naturally gravitate towards free hobbies like riding your bike or rolling in the grass or whatever, great, retiring early means more time to spend on those free hobbies.  But for people who don't want to slow down on hobbies that cost money, and in fact might want to spend MORE money on those hobbies purely due to time available, you have to plan that into your budgeting.  Which kind of conflicts with the idea of minimizing spending to retire early.  I was just trying to understand how people reconcile this; it does seem like most people here truly enjoy things that are free or nearly free, which is great for them.  Most people look at retiring and think "well, I'll need 50-80% of my current income/budget to retire since I'll be spending less."  I think "Geez, I'm going to need 130% of my budget because I'll have the time to spend MORE."

[Torgo]

As a grad student most of my hobby like activities are by necessity quite cheap.

This being said, in the last two months I greatly enhanced one of my longstanding hobbies with a few spendy pieces of equipment - astronomy.  I supplemented my old, had-it-since-i-was-13 three-inch manual reflecting telescope with an 8-inch computer-controlled reflector plus sun filters and eyepiece set, and a small dedicated H-alpha-filter solar scope.  The results are amazing.  To me, that's a $3k investment that is well worth it and will keep going for many many years.

[Eric]

Sure, I could play less golf, or I could try and find ways to make it cheaper, but that, to me, defeats the purpose of retiring to have more time doing what I want.  Which I think kind of gets at the heart of my question, if you naturally gravitate towards free hobbies like riding your bike or rolling in the grass or whatever, great, retiring early means more time to spend on those free hobbies.  But for people who don't want to slow down on hobbies that cost money, and in fact might want to spend MORE money on those hobbies purely due to time available, you have to plan that into your budgeting.  Which kind of conflicts with the idea of minimizing spending to retire early.  I was just trying to understand how people reconcile this; it does seem like most people here truly enjoy things that are free or nearly free, which is great for them.  Most people look at retiring and think "well, I'll need 50-80% of my current income/budget to retire since I'll be spending less."  I think "Geez, I'm going to need 130% of my budget because I'll have the time to spend MORE."

I'm not sure I see the conflict.  If you want to spend more, you'll have to work longer and save more.  If you want to spend less, you can work less and save less.  It's pretty clear cut.

Is this just personal justification to enjoy your hobbies?  If so, then have at it!  If you're looking for a balance, why not pick up some new inexpensive hobbies that you can enjoy when not at the course?  Or don't change anything and pick up part time work.  Or give lessons.  Or coach.  Or...

[Public Hermit]

-Reading. I spend maybe $10-$15 a year on books. The rest are either from the library or swapped out from the donation bin at the supermarket.
-Gym/Running. $130 a year for the gym membership and maybe $60 for some running shoes each year. $30-$50 for the occasional 5K or two.
-Concerts/comedy shows. I've been going to more concerts lately. This can get a bit expensive
-Is drinking a hobby? That is probably my most expensive one on this list. LOL
-Hiking. I pretty much just started hiking. It's a good way to clear my mind yet explore my "outdoorsy" side in the process. I just use my trail running shoes.
-Travel. Pretty much goes hand-in-hand with hiking/concerts. I want to do more travelling since I just paid off my student loans.
-Biking. I will be getting a mountain bike soon. I am having trouble finding a decent, middle-ground quality mountain bike for $150-$300.
-Movies. I love watching movies. I have cost-cutting ways of enjoying this hobby as well.

[celticmyst08]

My hobbies:

PC Gaming: ~$1000 to build gaming computer about 3 1/2 years ago (still works great, runs most games on high), plus maybe $50/year on games (if that). I tend to buy ones that will give me a lot of play time so I can get my money's worth. I just bought Dragon Age Inquisition and have been having a blast with that.

Hiking/Backpacking: We have all the gear we'll ever need, so the only cost now is gas and permits, maybe ~$300-400/year. We get the National Park Pass ($80) if we plan to go to a lot of parks.

Cooking: No extra cost since I cook within our monthly grocery budget ($250).

Reading/TV/Movies: Amazon Prime membership ($99/year) which gives me several free Kindle books per month, and a nice amount of TV shows and movies. Netflix membership ($8.50/month) provides the rest of our digital entertainment.

Travel: This is kind of a wild card. We budget ~150/month for general travel, which includes flights to visit one of our sets of parents. We use credit card rewards to offset some of this cost. We let the surplus money roll over so every few years we can do a bigger trip.

[seanc0x0]

My hobbies:

Gardening: ~$200/yr but some of that is buying durable equipment. I've only been in a house with a garden for 2 summers. Once I've got all the tools I need it'll drop a bit.

Guitar:  If I can avoid going to the music store too much (so many shinies!) it's just a few bucks here and there for strings/picks/etc. I'm also paying $84/mo for weekly lessons, but those are starting to become less effective as I get better so I might stop soon.

Amateur Radio:  This one can be a real money pit, with shiny $10k radios and huge ($100k+) antenna systems. Or it can be cheap, with a cheap 60's tube radio and a wire strung up between trees. I'm sort of in the middle, but I've got a ton of equipment now and I don't need to have the latest and greatest, so its ongoing cost is just electricity at this point. Once my kids are a bit older, I'll probably want to upgrade the antenna system, which could cost up to $10k, but that's way off down the road. 

Fishing:  I shore fish, but I already own most of the equipment. Just the cost of bait. (maybe $30/yr) and I get a few fresh fish out of the deal.

I am thinking of picking up canoeing as the kids get older since I remember it being so much fun as a kid, but my workplace has a personal spending account ($700/yr, up to $1400 total) that lists canoes as an approved health-related expense, so my entry should be not too expensive. :)

[I'm a red panda]

I stopped ice skating because I couldn't justify the thousands of dollars I spent a year on it, not to mention the time away from home.  I loved doing it- but it was a lot of money.

My other hobby is quilting which is quite spendy, if I let it be.  This year I haven't spent that much on it, as I'm being conscious not to.

What's the point of having money if you can't spend it?  I am frugal in most areas of life so that I can enjoy the money in the areas important to me.

[Chris22]

Why not look at other free or low cost ways to do your hobbies or try out other free hobbies and mix it up with your more costly ones.

I guess my mentality is different.  I work a job (that I don't hate, in fact that I like) in order to support the 2-3-4 things I really want to do in my life.  Those things cost money.  Doing them more costs more money.  Leaving a job I enjoy to do anything except those 2-3-4 things I really love doing more is not an improvement in quality of life for me.  In fact it's a step backwards, because I lose the reward and purpose and sense of achievement from working, AND I don't get to play in my hobbies more. 

To me, the only way the MMM theory works is if A) you scrounge up SO much money you can blow it all on your hobby (Dave Ramsey style), or B) your hobbies are basically free anyways.

[AJ]

Having costly hobbies is fine, you'll just need to work a little longer to make it to FIRE.

Alternatively, look for ways to make your hobbies cheaper or make money off your hobbies.  Walk the Course and it will cost half as much, look for a place that offers a year long unlimited range pass and then only golf 18 half as much.

You talk about enjoying working on cars, maybe consider fixing up friends cars for a little extra cash.  You enjoy photography, have you considering being a part-time photographer.  Offer to do some weddings and that can split your costs.

Get creative and I'm sure you can find ways to minimize your costs.

In my experience, the fastest way to make something you enjoy into a chore is to make it "for profit".

My experience has been that making a hobby a "job" can make it a major chore. But simply turning a profit (at your own convenience) can be loads of fun! DH is a musician, and he spent a year trying to make a full-time go of it. He did not enjoy that year at all. Making a living in music involves a lot more than the fun parts (mostly sales, and he hates sales). But now he does it as a hobby, sells a few CDs, plays only shows he wants to when he wants to, etc. It doesn't pay a wage, but it does pay for itself, and it adds extra enjoyment that people are willing to pay him.

[sisto]

Most of my hobbies have always been pretty low cost:

-gardening (growing food mostly)
-cooking (food we eat)
-crafting useful inexpensive things/decorating our home in a practical/inexpensive way
-planning stuff (eg, financial planning)
-organizing and developing systems to improve efficiency in our lives

The one that I used to really lean on that wasn't so frugal was shopping.   This was mostly shopping for deals on clothing and crap for the home.   But, since around MMM I've come to realize that I've shopped all I really need to, I have more than enough crap, and it's really not of value to me anymore.

I totally agree with you on these points. I have always been a shopper. I've learned that I will be much happier saving the money and putting it towards my retirement goals.

[golden1]

I am fortunate that most of my hobbies are really cheap.  I like to run, and that is an investment of maybe a few hundred a year between new running shoes and clothes.  It can be more expensive, especially if you like to run a lot of races, which I don't.  I always said that if I got a huge windfall and didn't have to work right now, I would be a running tourist, running races all around the country and the world.  But things being what they are, I am more than happy to run around my surrounding towns. 

My other hobbies are reading, which I do mostly for free thanks to the library, and computer gaming, although I do that less and less as the years go by.  I do buy a few books a year probably, and I probably buy a new gaming computer every 6-7 years which ends up costing probably $1000, and some game subscriptions.  All told, my hobbies cost me about $500/year, which is reasonable I think.