Talk Me Out of an E-Bike!!

[2Birds1Stone]

While browsing the forums here this morning, I stumbled upon a thread discussing E-bikes.........which led me down a rabbit hole deeper than I care to admit to....

.......okay fine, I spent 8 hours at work today literally doing nothing but reading about E-bike technology, reviews, videos, etc etc.

This looks like so much fun, so much so that I know without a doubt my SO and I would have a blast on these things where we live (tons of trails, beaches, paths to ride on).

They are freakin expensive though!! Looks like a good quality setup looks to be ~$2k all in, if we got two double that! Yikes, that's a lot of $$......I tried to justify by saying I would drive less but that's a lie. I have a triathlon bike I can ride to work, and a hard-tail mountain bike for the trails....so really this would just a toy that gets us outside and exercising more.

For $4k all in it sounds crazy, but I'm seriously considering it!

Facepunch some sense into me please!

[dodojojo]

I know you...I went from looking for a winter beater bike (I'm starting the search early) on Craigslist to just buying a folding bike for $700 plus.  My justification is that I don't have a car, I like bikes and it's just not right to have only one.  *Ready to duck face-punches.

[dodojojo]

Btw, I've been looking at e-bikes too...bet we've been checking out some of the same sites.  Luckily I do not have room for one in my apartment (hence the folding bike purchase).

[Syonyk]

Sorry, no can do.  Ebikes are awesome.

You're right.  $2k gets you a very reasonable ebike - nothing overly fancy, but that's somewhat outside the "built to be cheap" price point.  You can get something quality for a bit less, but once you add shipping, it's around $2k.

In exchange, you'll have a vehicle that will be a genuine car replacement for most of the year.  Make sure you get fenders unless you live somewhere that almost never rains.

At 1/10th to 1/20th the energy per mile of an electric car, you'll be getting yourself and whatever cargo you want around, at a good clip, while enjoying the outside air.

If you're going somewhere that isn't compatible with being sweaty?  No problem.  Turn up the assist and turn it down on the way home.

Hauling a bunch of stuff in a backpack up a hill?  Still no problem.

They're really, really awesome ways of getting around, and you'll take them far more places you'd otherwise drive.

That said, if you almost never drive and take bicycles everywhere now, they're not a huge advantage, though they will improve your range and save time.

I was a hardcore ebike commuter for 2.5 years, and in dense suburban areas, it was literally faster than driving.  I still have mine, but I don't ride as often because I work from home now, and an awful lot of my trips involve the hardware store and lumber.  I'm building myself a custom long range, high speed cargo bike, though - and I live in rural farm country. :)

[aspiringnomad]

Not gonna talk you out of an e-bike, because they are very cool, but you can buy an awesome scooter that will take you faster, carry a companion, and give you storage for $3k or less. Having experience with both, the scoot is the way to go.

[Syonyk]

Scooters are not typically allowed on "tons of trails, beaches, paths to ride on."

[aspiringnomad]

Scooters are not typically allowed on "tons of trails, beaches, paths to ride on."

Good point. Should have read the post more carefully. E-bike it is!

[gooki]

Spend $350 on a kit and attach it to your existing mountain bike.

[gooki]

http://www.greenbikekit.com/electric-bike-kit-1/front/36v-250w-gbk-100f-front-driving-e-bike-kit-with-36v-12ah-bottle-battery.html

Don't bother installing the brake levers (keep your existing ones).
Don't bother installing the pedal rotation sensor.
Swap the throttle grip for a thumb throttle.
Get the controller case for an extra $3.00

http://www.greenbikekit.com/controller-case.html

Looks like their rear wheel kit is on sale:
http://www.greenbikekit.com/electric-bike-kit-1/rear/36v-250w-100cst-cassette-freewheel-kit-with-bottle-battery.html

[Goldielocks]

Spend $350 on a kit and attach it to your existing mountain bike.

+1

I was going to say spend $500 (for kit with controller and battery), but  $350 will do it.     A front wheel kit is so easy to install!

[gooki]

Or since you want to be talked out of it. Toughen up and use you leg muscles. Commuting on my ebike everyday made me unfit. Sold them all a year ago, and feel much better now.

[poorboyrichman]

200+ watt motors, or motors without a 15mph limiter are illegal here in the UK without registering and insuring your bike like a car which makes them all but pointless here as I can cycle faster with leg power. Nevertheless, I was tempted to get a 1000 watt one for a while and be stealthy with it. The only thing stopping me from getting one was I didn't fancy a ban on my drivers license having read about someone else's experience with the police after being pulled over while travelling at 40mph (uphill!)

Still, e-bikes will always feel like the lazy option to me, but if it reduces car dependence for utility transport (shopping, social) I don't think you'll you get a face punch from me.

[zephyr911]

Buy an e-bike. Do it. Just, maybe don't blow four grand on one. >.<

[Syonyk]

I was going to say spend $500 (for kit with controller and battery), but  $350 will do it.     A front wheel kit is so easy to install!

Don't get a front wheel kit.  They're easy to install at the expensive of pretty much everything else.

A low power front wheel kit is fine (200-300W), but anything beyond that leads to really weird handling and the possibility of spinning the front wheel up if you're going uphill in the rain, which almost always will lead to a crash.  Plus, you can't use a higher power motor with suspension forks, and even without suspension forks, you really should be running dual torque arms.

A front wheel failure is always going to be painful.  Most people can ride out a rear wheel failure.

Go with a mid-drive or rear-drive.  The additional installation complexity is outweighed by the fact that it's a better system.

200+ watt motors, or motors without a 15mph limiter are illegal here in the UK without registering and insuring your bike like a car which makes them all but pointless here as I can cycle faster with leg power. Nevertheless, I was tempted to get a 1000 watt one for a while and be stealthy with it. The only thing stopping me from getting one was I didn't fancy a ban on my drivers license having read about someone else's experience with the police after being pulled over while travelling at 40mph (uphill!)

"Don't be a dick."  And if it's illegal, "Don't be that obvious."  Washington state allowed for 20mph on the motor and 1000W.  My commuter was slightly above those limits (though as they don't specify what they mean by 1000W, I decided it meant mechanical output, calculated losses in the motor, and concluded that I was fine).  But, nobody is going to say anything about someone pushing 1500W going uphill at 12mph in the rain (except, perhaps, my neighbors - multiple people commented that I was really moving up that hill, and were just curious as to how I did it, because I could utterly smoke even hardcore recreational cyclists on a hill).

Don't attract attention.  Doing 18-20mph is fine.  Doing 12mph up a hill is fine.  But don't make it blindingly obvious that you're doing something sneaky, which 40mph up a hill qualifies as.

Still, e-bikes will always feel like the lazy option to me, but if it reduces car dependence for utility transport (shopping, social) I don't think you'll you get a face punch from me.

*shrug* They may be regarded as lazy compared to a regular bike, but the extended range, speed, and ability to get places without being sweaty puts them, IMO, as a different form of transport than a bicycle.  I consider them closer to a single person car in terms of capabilities, and in terms of "resource requirements for transportation," they're about as efficient as one can get - even compared to a regular bicycle, if you factor in food production emissions.

Buy an e-bike. Do it. Just, maybe don't blow four grand on one. >.<

OP is talking about spending four grand on two. ;)

[Gmullz]

I was going to say spend $500 (for kit with controller and battery), but  $350 will do it.     A front wheel kit is so easy to install!

Don't get a front wheel kit.  They're easy to install at the expensive of pretty much everything else.

A low power front wheel kit is fine (200-300W), but anything beyond that leads to really weird handling and the possibility of spinning the front wheel up if you're going uphill in the rain, which almost always will lead to a crash.  Plus, you can't use a higher power motor with suspension forks, and even without suspension forks, you really should be running dual torque arms.

A front wheel failure is always going to be painful.  Most people can ride out a rear wheel failure.

Go with a mid-drive or rear-drive.  The additional installation complexity is outweighed by the fact that it's a better system.

This is good advice. The recent MMM eBike post features a BBS02, which is a mid-drive. I have the newer BBS, a BBSHD. At around $2000 CDN (much less in USD), it's a sweet setup. A rear hub motor will be even cheaper and do the job as well. It will suffer on the hills, and likely be less efficient overall than a mid-drive, but you get what you pay for. Also, dealing with a flat can be a pain with a hub motor as well. And the controller is usually external, which is unsightly and potential problem due to thievery. 

As you can tell, I'm a fan of mid-drive systems, but I also don't have a car, so I can justify the extra expense. It really is an excellent car replacement for most trips. With this bike, I rent cars much less, and I make more overall trips, which adds some spice to my life. My short commute to work is still done on my a regular bike though. But when I get home from my non-electrified commute, the eBike is a nice option to have.

[Syonyk]

If you have a motor, it's possible to build a wheel/tire combo that is quite flat resistant.  Not impossible, but radically reduced frequency.

Heavy, armored tire.
Armor layer inside the tire.
Thorn resistant tube (the side facing the road is thicker).
Some sort of latex sealant or Slime.

It's heavy, but the weight doesn't matter that much, and it's quite hard to get a proper flat on it.  I rode home with a big nail in my tire.

It's still vulnerable to a goathead up the side, though. :/

[frompa]

If you want to be talked out of it, let me help:  One of the primary pluses of our getting around by bike versus driving is the level of physical fitness that comes with daily riding everywhere.  Additionally, while relative to energy used by a car, an e-bike is great, biking powered by your own legs is about as energy efficient as one can get.   You largely lose these pluses with an e-bike. 

[dodojojo]

Is it possible to ride an e-bike without motor assistance and only have the power come on when you need it?  I'd like an cargo e-bike where I would use power with particularly heavy loads and/or going uphill.  But would otherwise pedal on my own.

[Syonyk]

Yup.  That's easy enough to do.  Turn off the motor (either don't use the throttle or set pedal assist level to 0) when you don't want to use it.

[Freeme]

In Chicago there is a place along the river to rent ebikes they said every year they buy new and sell at cost the used ones. The company was called wonder bikes.

[asauer]

Sorry, can't talk you out of it.  Ebikes were such a great way for me to build endurance, especially on hills. I rarely use the electric feature now but for 3 years it was SO helpful.

[acanthurus]

They seem very pricey for what they are, but I admit a fascination with them. I can get a good used Ninja 250 motorcycle for $2000 used that will have almost no depreciation and get 70+ MPG and do 80+ MPH, but it can't be taken on trails/sidewalks/paths etc. Downside is no exercise benefits (although riding is more physically demanding than some think).

Or I can get an E-Bike, which costs about the same all in, will have quite a bit of depreciation comparatively, will be cheaper to run, can go more places so long as there isn't a highway involved. If you go over 20MPH, get something with fat tires or a decent suspension.

Or I can get a used dual sport motorcycle for about the same price, and go off-roading and motocamping and all kinds of fun stuff.

Very different machines, but if the objective is "fun" they scratch a lot of the same itch. I might end up converting my mountain bike over with an E-Bike kit and park it next to the motorcycle in the garage. Looking at the technology the mid-drive seems the best to me.

[Syonyk]

They seem very pricey for what they are, but I admit a fascination with them. I can get a good used Ninja 250 motorcycle for $2000 used that will have almost no depreciation and get 70+ MPG and do 80+ MPH, but it can't be taken on trails/sidewalks/paths etc. Downside is no exercise benefits (although riding is more physically demanding than some think).

Different vehicles for different purposes.  At least in some cities, electric bikes are the fastest way to get around.  Living in the Seattle metro area, a motorcycle was, for all practical purposes, a car in which you got rained on regularly.  An ebike was usable in the bike lanes and on at least some of the trails (ask different people, get different answers, but I saw a lot of ebikes on the trail I rode to work and nobody seemed to mind).

Or I can get an E-Bike, which costs about the same all in, will have quite a bit of depreciation comparatively, will be cheaper to run, can go more places so long as there isn't a highway involved. If you go over 20MPH, get something with fat tires or a decent suspension.

Or you could get a used ebike. :p

Very different machines, but if the objective is "fun" they scratch a lot of the same itch. I might end up converting my mountain bike over with an E-Bike kit and park it next to the motorcycle in the garage. Looking at the technology the mid-drive seems the best to me.

I'd argue an ebike is more practical transportation.  They're insanely fun, but that's a side effect.

Mid-drive is nice in that you have a wide range of speeds at which the motor can deliver full power, but it's overkill for a lot of use cases.  A geared hub motor is, IMO, the best general purpose option.  It's also much easier on the chain and sprockets than a mid-drive setup.

[acanthurus]

Technically he said to talk him out of an e-bike, just throwing out some options :)

[Crusader]

I like mine, I got it for real cheap because the guy was just trying to liquidate and move. Key your eyes open on Craigslist and get it close to the specs that MMM built his in the most recent E-bike article. I have actually grown stronger with mine because I can push myself harder for a higher speed for longer. But that is me. If you are getting it just to play with, then hold off unless it is pocket change. Otherwise if you want to be able to go faster and longer I would say get it. I love mine as it gets me places faster and gets me outdoors riding a bike more.

[FrenchStache]

Can you guys post some models of the good ebikes out there?

For the ones that already have one, how far do you commute to work with one?

[Syonyk]

Can you guys post some models of the good ebikes out there?

If you're looking for a factory ebike, it's hard to beat the Rad Wagon and Rad Rover right now.  I reviewed both of them when I was over in Seattle, and they're sub-$2000, shipped, and excellent bikes.

https://syonyk.blogspot.com/2016/03/rad-power-bikes-rad-wagon-review.html

https://syonyk.blogspot.com/2016/03/rad-power-bikes-rad-rover.html

For the ones that already have one, how far do you commute to work with one?

I don't ride one that often now, as I've moved and work from an office on my property (built out of a Tuff-Shed), but I was doing 10 miles/day every day, rain or shine, in Seattle.  I did that for about 2.5 years before moving where I am now.

That was a year on a Craigslist bike that eventually burned up the motor (I was pushing too much power), then 1.5 years on a custom build by me (https://syonyk.blogspot.com/2015/05/my-second-ebike-properly-good-build.html).

I still have that, and am slowly making a "rural farm country" bike out of it.

[Rocket]

I bought a 3k easy motion mountain bike.  Its really nice and it got me back on the bike.  Just bought a non electric mountain bike for weekends and use the electric for commuting to work.  If I was to do it again I'd find a bike I liked and do a mid drive conversion kit.  Much much cheaper and powerful option and if I didn't like it I could convert it back to non electric.  I could also easily buy a replacement battery.  When my easy motion battery goes I have to buy it from them and its going to cost a lot if its still available.

[Syonyk]

If the battery is built of 18650s, I can probably rebuild it when that time comes.

[dodojojo]

How do you secure a 2-3K bike?  I would feel so much anxiety.  As it is, I u-lock/cable lock my junky Trek.

[MMM98]

I have 2 things to add

Crazy Lenny’s ebikes.  The largest seller of ebikes in the US.  The prices are not always posted online.  I am sure that is due to agreements with manufacturers.  Keep an eye out for the closeout area.  I purchased MSRP 2199 bike for 849 when the changed models.  Call to get their price, you might be surprised.
Second check out the Sondors Gosondors.com.  The 499.00 bike is 694.00 delivered.  It is about 1K bike that is easily modifiable.  Realistically it will require some modifications but these can be done at your pace at your budget. 
 The bonus of the Sondors is the ingenuity of the users and their collective willingness to share ideas (on their Facebook page).  For example one guy posted detail instructions on adding a three speed cassette for about 30.00, another added booster batteries from a hover board to increase range.  Anyone who has an ebike will attest that the proprietary batteries are expensive, unless you rebuilt them yourself.  The downside of the Sondors is the lead-time to get one.

[2Birds1Stone]

If the battery is built of 18650s, I can probably rebuild it when that time comes.

I currently have a nice hard tail MTB, not sure I want to use it for a conversion. I'm not very handy with electronics nor do I have any tools/garage to work in.

http://archive.trekbikes.com/us/en/2009/trek/8000#/us/en/2009/trek/8000/details

I REALLY like the Radrover. I live on Long Island, we have 4 seasons, lots of beaches and single track trails.

Syonyk, in my shoes would you keep the hardtail MTB as a normal MTB and purchase a Radrover?

Or get something like this, http://www.hi-powercycles.com/hpc-2000w-hub-motor-complete-kit/

The kit is $1999 starting price, if you want the better battery and LCD display you are not looking at close to $3k for the conversion.

I can get the Radrover for ~$1700 shipped.

If I move forward with an E-bike I am torn on whether or not I will regret buying an off the shelf bike with lower end components to save money.

I have 2 things to add

Crazy Lenny’s ebikes.  The largest seller of ebikes in the US.  The prices are not always posted online.  I am sure that is due to agreements with manufacturers.  Keep an eye out for the closeout area.  I purchased MSRP 2199 bike for 849 when the changed models.  Call to get their price, you might be surprised.
Second check out the Sondors Gosondors.com.  The 499.00 bike is 694.00 delivered.  It is about 1K bike that is easily modifiable.  Realistically it will require some modifications but these can be done at your pace at your budget. 
 The bonus of the Sondors is the ingenuity of the users and their collective willingness to share ideas (on their Facebook page).  For example one guy posted detail instructions on adding a three speed cassette for about 30.00, another added booster batteries from a hover board to increase range.  Anyone who has an ebike will attest that the proprietary batteries are expensive, unless you rebuilt them yourself.  The downside of the Sondors is the lead-time to get one.

Will check out the site.

I like the concept of the Sondors, have no issue waiting. But it would not fit my needs as I am looking for something that will handle off road riding and decent hill climbs.

The reason I am thinking about the Rad Rover is the fat tires. I would be able to ride the bike on the beach and commute in the snow if need be.

[Syonyk]

How do you secure a 2-3K bike?  I would feel so much anxiety.  As it is, I u-lock/cable lock my junky Trek.

"Don't live in a shitty part of the country where people steal bikes."

:)

I just run a cable through the frame and front wheel to make it non-trivial to ride off with my bike, and that seems to work fine.  I rarely actually lock it to anything.

...another added booster batteries from a hover board to increase range.  Anyone who has an ebike will attest that the proprietary batteries are expensive, unless you rebuilt them yourself.

I do not understand the desire of a large chunk of the DIY-ebike world to find the worst, most dangerous batteries they can find, and then use them.  I feel the same way about hobby lipo packs, but using a range of batteries that have repeatedly and spectacularly demonstrated their desire to catch fire strikes me as a bit odd.

I currently have a nice hard tail MTB, not sure I want to use it for a conversion. I'm not very handy with electronics nor do I have any tools/garage to work in.

I REALLY like the Radrover. I live on Long Island, we have 4 seasons, lots of beaches and single track trails.

Syonyk, in my shoes would you keep the hardtail MTB as a normal MTB and purchase a Radrover?

If you like your nice MTB and aren't handy with electronics, I'd just buy the Rad Rover and keep your existing bike as-is.  An electric bike makes a relatively poor mechanical bike, as it's heavier.

If I move forward with an E-bike I am torn on whether or not I will regret buying an off the shelf bike with lower end components to save money.

Component quality matters a lot less on ebikes.  The big differences are in weight and shifting under power, which a motor solves nicely.  The area not to skimp is brakes - I'm a fan of dual piston hydraulic brakes, myself.

I like the concept of the Sondors, have no issue waiting. But it would not fit my needs as I am looking for something that will handle off road riding and decent hill climbs.

The reason I am thinking about the Rad Rover is the fat tires. I would be able to ride the bike on the beach and commute in the snow if need be.

I know several Rad Rover owners.  They all absolutely love them.  One of them is in San Francisco, so hills are his thing.

[MMM98]

The Rad Rover gets great reviews.  It uses the Hangtai motor which I have not heard of used on other ebikes, at least it is not widely used.  That’s not good or bad it just may limit you to Rad rover for parts availability.  Here is the thing about ebikes, you love them or sell them.  Its not difficult to ride 20 miles which quickly becomes 1,000.  At a certain point you need to replace the motor and the battery pack.

Of the hub motor brands Bafang is the most common, not necessarily the best but very common.  Price certainly factors into this.  Sondors uses the Bafang in their fat tire bike and the ‘Thin’ model.  The Sondors Fat Tire does not directly compare to the Rad Rover (664.00 to 1,499) as the Sondors is single speed without the suspension front, 36v to 48v, smaller battery to larger.  When optioned out to equivalency (close) the Sondors is two or three hundred cheaper but still a single speed.  It is hard to beat the Rad rover for quality and support.
As already noted other manufacturers use proprietary motors, it is something to be aware of.
If you are reasonably mechanically inclined you can rebuild the battery pack. Everyone that I have seen is constructed from 18650s.  There are firms that will rebuild them for you if you can’t or want to avoid OEM battery packs. 
The 18650s will be made in China.  It becomes a matter of faith if the cells are good or not.  I believe that you can get into some serious trouble with these batteries (a fire source) if you hit them, splash those with water and over charge them.  This is exactly what happens in a hover board.

[Syonyk]

If you are reasonably mechanically inclined you can rebuild the battery pack. Everyone that I have seen is constructed from 18650s.  There are firms that will rebuild them for you if you can’t or want to avoid OEM battery packs. 
The 18650s will be made in China.  It becomes a matter of faith if the cells are good or not.  I believe that you can get into some serious trouble with these batteries (a fire source) if you hit them, splash those with water and over charge them.  This is exactly what happens in a hover board.

Any of the name brand OEM 18650s (so Samsung, Panasonic, Sony, LG) will be fine as long as you get them through a reputable source.

And I'm one of those rebuilders. ;)

You can make anything misbehave if you abuse it enough, but quality 18650 based packs with a decent BMS are just fine.

[Goldielocks]

Is it possible to ride an e-bike without motor assistance and only have the power come on when you need it?  I'd like an cargo e-bike where I would use power with particularly heavy loads and/or going uphill.  But would otherwise pedal on my own.

Mid drive does this well, hub drives allow pedalling, but have rolling resistance (unless you have fancy internal hub gears or something..)

To the poster stating not to get a front hub -- I was able to install the front hub in one sitting.   I rode it for 4 years and zero problems (it was not overpowered).   Currently attempting to install a mid drive, and it is one problem after another, for the past 5 months.  Currently the motor mount is slipping.  argh.   So many finicky points to get wrong on a mid drive kit that you put on your own bike.

[Wildflame]

I rarely use my ebike for three reasons:
1. The commute is just too long - normal commute is 15km per way, which is just within my personal limits, but I'm currently at a satellite office 20km from home, so you're looking at an hour all told from front door to office door on my pissy little 250w motor which is all that is legal here, as opposed to 45 minutes on public transport. Half an hour a day adds up... That on its own wouldn't be too bad, but for 2.
2. The bike path is too damn bumpy. Don't be a fool like me and get an ebike with no suspension. Your arse will thank you for it.
3. I'm shitty with maintenance and repairs, so when something breaks (which it does every few months, especially spokes thanks to 2) I have to take it into a shop for repair.

If these apply to you, I'd say an ebike is a bad idea. Not because it's a bad machine, or that you're a bad person - it's just a tool which is not suited for your needs. An ebike was much more suitable for me at my last job, when my commute was 9km per way, the way wasn't too bumpy and the public transport was terribly slow.

I reckon an ebike is a great choice for a commute up to 10km per way and a reasonable choice for up to 15km per way. Beyond that, you're better off taking public transport or just sucking it up and driving. Moving closer to work would be the sensible choice but I get free rent here, which compensates for the cost of taking PT. ^_^

I don't agree with the comment that an ebike is worse than a normal bike because you get less exercise. You may get less exercise per trip travelled, but you are a lot more willing to stiffen your (mustached) upper lip and get on the bike of a morning because you know you can take it easy and let the motor do the hard yards. You'll still get your wind up, I guarantee it. It's also a great way to get over a work day - by the time I get home after work, yes, I'm tired, but usually in a better frame of mind than when I left. It's hard to be angry out in the open, tunes in your ear, wind tugging at your clothes and you breathing fresh air deep in your lungs.

Locks: I use a u-lock and a chain lock. U-lock secures the quick-release wheel to the frame, and chain lock secures the motor wheel to the frame and an object in the environment. While there's a chance someone can use bolt cutters to get the bike free, they would need to carry it somewhere they can remove the U-lock, so I figure that's deterrent enough. Obviously you can't prevent someone who's really determined from nicking your kit, but if you are paranoid I think you can buy chain locks with an integrated alarm which would provide a little more dissuasion.

[acanthurus]

2. The bike path is too damn bumpy. Don't be a fool like me and get an ebike with no suspension. Your arse will thank you for it.

This really, really should be emphasized. I'm more into motorcyles than bikes, but even the smallest motorcycle sold in the US (Honda Grom, top speed 50ish?) has 3.9" of front suspension travel and 4.1" of rear suspension travel. Little 49cc scooters (Honda Ruckus, Honda Metropolitan, top speed 35ish)) typically have 2" or more of suspension travel front and rear. And these are meant for strictly on-road use. If you are doing 20mph or more on an e-bike and going over bad pavement or include any off-road I think you would really want some big tires and / or a full suspension.

Also if you are doing 20mph or more on an ebike, up your protection game. Gloves at a minimum. There are some inexpensive armor kits meant to strap on over regular clothing that provide CE rated protection in case of a fall.

[2Birds1Stone]

2. The bike path is too damn bumpy. Don't be a fool like me and get an ebike with no suspension. Your arse will thank you for it.

This really, really should be emphasized. I'm more into motorcyles than bikes, but even the smallest motorcycle sold in the US (Honda Grom, top speed 50ish?) has 3.9" of front suspension travel and 4.1" of rear suspension travel. Little 49cc scooters (Honda Ruckus, Honda Metropolitan, top speed 35ish)) typically have 2" or more of suspension travel front and rear. And these are meant for strictly on-road use. If you are doing 20mph or more on an e-bike and going over bad pavement or include any off-road I think you would really want some big tires and / or a full suspension.

Also if you are doing 20mph or more on an ebike, up your protection game. Gloves at a minimum. There are some inexpensive armor kits meant to strap on over regular clothing that provide CE rated protection in case of a fall.

Awesome feedback. I too ride motorcycles and can appreciate a purpose built suspension.

For this reason among others I am considering only fat E-bikes like the Rad Rover or similar. One of the biggest use cases I would have would be mud/snow/beach riding for pleasure.

[Nothlit]

I just ordered a mid drive e-bike kit myself, so trying to convince you not to buy one is going to be a challenge ;-) but here goes...

Your state or local jurisdiction may regulate e-bikes more strictly than normal bikes. You may have to register them, carry insurance on them, have a driver's license to operate them, or some combination of the above. They may be prohibited from some bike paths, or even from riding on any public street whatsoever (ahem, NY state). People in the e-bike world love to cite federal law which defines a "low-speed electric bicycle" as having a motor under 750 watts and a top speed of 20 mph (I'm paraphrasing here, but those are the key points), and frequently proclaim that this overrides any and all state-level restrictions on the use of e-bikes, but those people are wrong. So keep this in mind. If you ride responsibly and stealthily, I'm sure there's little chance you will ever be stopped or cited for riding an e-bike in a place where you're not supposed to. But if you ever get into an accident, even if it's someone else's fault, they may be able to use the fact that you were riding an unlicensed "motorized bicycle" or moped (if that's what your state would legally consider your e-bike to be) as factors to put some of the liability on you. (I am not a lawyer, this is just my layman's concern.)

[2Birds1Stone]

Wow, just fact checked that.....crazy......so E-bikes are illegal in NY -_- what a bummer.

I just ordered a mid drive e-bike kit myself, so trying to convince you not to buy one is going to be a challenge ;-) but here goes...

Your state or local jurisdiction may regulate e-bikes more strictly than normal bikes. You may have to register them, carry insurance on them, have a driver's license to operate them, or some combination of the above. They may be prohibited from some bike paths, or even from riding on any public street whatsoever (ahem, NY state). People in the e-bike world love to cite federal law which defines a "low-speed electric bicycle" as having a motor under 750 watts and a top speed of 20 mph (I'm paraphrasing here, but those are the key points), and frequently proclaim that this overrides any and all state-level restrictions on the use of e-bikes, but those people are wrong. So keep this in mind. If you ride responsibly and stealthily, I'm sure there's little chance you will ever be stopped or cited for riding an e-bike in a place where you're not supposed to. But if you ever get into an accident, even if it's someone else's fault, they may be able to use the fact that you were riding an unlicensed "motorized bicycle" or moped (if that's what your state would legally consider your e-bike to be) as factors to put some of the liability on you. (I am not a lawyer, this is just my layman's concern.)