Author Topic: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone  (Read 19151 times)

MrMoneySaver

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"Yes, you heard me right: 70 is the new retirement age—not a month or year before."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/make-the-most/suze-orman-says-this-is-the-exact-age-you-should-retire/ar-AAtVD1z

effigy98

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2017, 02:09:18 PM »
Well, when I bring up my goals for retirment in mid 40's (I feel late to the game), I hear massive skeptism and a bunch of terrible advice from nearly all my friends, family, coworkers, etc. The masses are so entranched into consumerism, this type of advice feeds their bad choices so they feel like there is no hope and they may as well keep being good little drone slaves since everybody is doing it.

jim555

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2017, 02:14:34 PM »
Oh no!  Better get my resume ready, I need to go back to work.  Thanks Suzie!

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2017, 02:58:33 PM »
The sad thing is, for a majority of Americans, she’s probably right. Most people aren’t following the MMM blueprint, most wont have the savings. And retiring isn’t necessarily beneficial for everyone, a large number of men die soon after retiring (women are generally fine), so continuing to work in some capacity is a good thing. We should pat ourselves on the back to strategically making ourselves financially resilient now, instead of later.

bacchi

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2017, 03:16:17 PM »
a large number of men die soon after retiring (women are generally fine),

Ah, but do these men retire because they're in ill health, or do they retire and then get sick?

CCCA

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2017, 03:25:21 PM »
based on this article, she's concerned about longevity risk.  Here's a quote from the article:

Quote
Healthy people in their 60s today have about a 50% chance of living into their 90s. Can you honestly tell me you’re 100% sure you will not run out of money if you start spending down your retirement funds in your 60s and end up living into your 90s?

But she doesn't mention that while nothing is 100% sure, who makes any decision in their lives with 100% certainty?  No one, because it's impossible.  She also doesn't mention that there's a tradeoff between increasing security by working longer and enjoying your retirement with, lets say, 50-80% certainty that you'll be more than fine.

Anyway, I'm planning on retirement lasting through my 90's and cfiresim seems to think I'm there now. 
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 03:27:01 PM by CCCA »

MrsPete

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2017, 04:21:56 PM »
I can't take seriously a woman who doesn't grasp the basics of phonics. 

ixtap

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2017, 04:39:41 PM »
Pay no never mind to your personal circumstances. Just work until you can't or until you are 70.

mm1970

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2017, 04:50:05 PM »
She does have some really good points in there though.

calimom

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2017, 06:57:21 PM »
She does have some really good points in there though.

She does, actually. Likely not for meant for a frugal FIRE crowd like here, but for most of this country, yes. And keep in mind she is 66 years old and still working, albeit doing something that is her passion, but still at it when she could have easily retired years ago. There are people in very physical jobs, like contracting or working in hot kitchens, for example, who would have a hard time working till 70, but she offers some resources for training into different areas.

My stepfather is just north of 70 and is still working as a college professor. He loves his work, is engaged by it and will likely keep teaching and traveling a few more years. I don't think he 'needs' the money.  The reality for most Americans is that they will need to work till 70 for the maximum SS, healthcare and because their retirement savings are substandard.

MrMoneySaver

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2017, 07:34:38 PM »
I thought her points about medical costs were strong. Not something that's easy to plan for, either -- the potential costs are hard to know.

But work till 70? No. I'll save and plan as best I can and then take my chances.

CheapScholar

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2017, 08:38:12 PM »
She does say that for some people this means working part time.

If people can find meaningful part time work then it's not the worst advice ever.  That will be harder to find as technology progresses. 

It comes down to a matter of philosophy.  People on this board are aiming to build enough wealth to live off the interest.  The way she writes, it seems her followers exhaust their savings much faster than any market gains.  Just another example that WE are the oddballs and outliers.

shunkman

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2017, 08:46:29 PM »
The life expectancy for a male in the US is about 77 years. My plan is to retire next year at age 56. Would I rather plan for a 21 year retirement or maybe just 7 years? This is a no brainer for me. And the thought of working at Mega-Gov for 15 more years is unimaginable for me.

I think Ms. Orman is out of touch on many issues. Is she still even relevant in the world of personal finance?

ixtap

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2017, 08:49:57 PM »
The life expectancy for a male in the US is about 77 years. My plan is to retire next year at age 56. Would I rather plan for a 21 year retirement or maybe just 7 years? This is a no brainer for me. And the thought of working at Mega-Gov for 15 more years is unimaginable for me.

I think Ms. Orman is out of touch on many issues. Is she still even relevant in the world of personal finance?

She has more followers than I do.

dresden

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2017, 09:26:11 PM »
Her advice is probably good for the average person - not the average person on this forum.  The FIRE crowd in mostly has higher than average income while working which increases flexibility, but many people don't have that luxury.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2017, 12:40:57 AM »
The life expectancy for a male in the US is about 77 years.

Remember that the life expectancy for a male who is already 56 is higher than 77.

The fact that she makes this a "rule" for absolutely everyone, regardless of the assets involved, means a giant pinch of salt will be needed on the side of this advice headline.

Monocle Money Mouth

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2017, 03:26:00 AM »
I think she’s also ignoring downsizing and ageism. Even if you want to work until you are 70, you might not be able to find and employer that wants you. You’ll be too frail for a physically demanding job even if you are in relatively good shape for your age. Most old people I have met haven’t been great with technology even if they have access to it. I know some older folks are competent computer users, but most are going to need to be retrained on basic computer concepts daily.

When I worked retail, we hired an older guy to work in the backroom. I had to show him how to log on to his scanner every single day. This is something I showed my younger guys once on their first day and never had to show them again. This old guy was also a physical train wreck from decades as an electrician. I felt bad when they let him go. I think he really needed the job.  Even that basic retail job was beyond his physical and cognitive capabilities at his age.

I don’t think saving for early retirement is a luxury anymore. Even if you are ok with the idea of working until you are 70, your employer probably isn’t.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 03:29:26 AM by mies »

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2017, 05:45:35 AM »
a large number of men die soon after retiring (women are generally fine),

Ah, but do these men retire because they're in ill health, or do they retire and then get sick?

They retire, get depressed, then ill, then die.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 03:18:09 AM by MrThatsDifferent »

partgypsy

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2017, 06:11:29 AM »
If you follow her investment advice, maybe.

I'm just kidding. I think this is the reality for many people. My mother worked until 72 (although the last ? years it was part time). My Dad at 84 still works (part time) and didn't start drawing from his social security until age 77. They were at one point solidly upper middle class, but didn't get the whole saving for retirement thing. So for me, no I don't want to be working at age 70. But many people if they choose to or not, will be.


Actually I used to like Suze Orman. But maybe because the people calling in are usually trainwrecks, or that she has to dumb down the information too much, I haven't found her as relevant once I found this and other internet sites. She can be a good starting off point, and I do like that she has always emphasized that women need to make sure they are taking care of themselves financially (versus relying on their husband).
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 06:15:11 AM by partgypsy »

sokoloff

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2017, 06:14:44 AM »
The life expectancy for a male in the US is about 77 years. My plan is to retire next year at age 56. Would I rather plan for a 21 year retirement or maybe just 7 years? This is a no brainer for me. And the thought of working at Mega-Gov for 15 more years is unimaginable for me.
You need to use conditional life expectancy here, not population-wide. (Life expectancy of someone who is already 55 or 75 is longer than the population as a whole.)

http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/retirement/life-age-expectancy-calculator.aspx

Upon reaching 56, you likely have almost a 30 year life expectancy, not 21.
I think Ms. Orman is out of touch on many issues. Is she still even relevant in the world of personal finance?
Realize that she's part entertainer, but also that your level of financial awareness and savvy is much, much, much higher than the average American. I'd wager that anyone who registered for an account on this forum, let alone posted, is probably above the average of the pack. She's catering to a wider audience of viewers than the MMM forum cohort and in that regard, does a good job of bringing some education and sensibility to a population that (desperately) needs it.

She also seems to simplify things down to formulas or methods that the average person has a chance to remember and treat as a rule by only hearing it and maybe seeing a quick graphic flashed on screen. Do I think she's dumb enough to believe that she can distill a few simple rules that apply to everyone? No; on the contrary, I think she knows she needs to simplify and "rule of thumb" a lot of her advice so that some of it has a chance to stick with her viewers.

She may not be as far from the center as the average poster here, but she's definitely working on the correct side of the middle, IMO.

partgypsy

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2017, 06:18:24 AM »
I hear she is very conservative in how she invests her money, in mindset I wouldn't be surprised she is closer to a mmm mentality than you would think. Her net worth is 35 million. She personally, doesn't need to work until 70.

LiveLean

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2017, 06:26:18 AM »
She told Costco magazine a few years ago that she has less than 10 percent of her net worth in stocks/mutual funds.

She's a total flavor-of-the-month financial advisor. When real estate is hot, she's all about real estate. When stocks are hot, she's all about the stock market. When the market is down, she's all about parking money in cash.

She's the Denise Austin of finance. Denise doesn't have any actual fitness philosophies, she just touts whatever hot fitness fad of the moment. Go back 30 years and you can find Denise's books/videos on every fitness fad.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2017, 06:51:57 AM »
The life expectancy for a male in the US is about 77 years. My plan is to retire next year at age 56. Would I rather plan for a 21 year retirement or maybe just 7 years? This is a no brainer for me. And the thought of working at Mega-Gov for 15 more years is unimaginable for me.
You need to use conditional life expectancy here, not population-wide. (Life expectancy of someone who is already 55 or 75 is longer than the population as a whole.)

http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/retirement/life-age-expectancy-calculator.aspx


Based on this calculator the only thing I can do to increase my life expectancy is to start drinking alcohol  - that gets me from 83 to 86.
I thought lowering my weight would increase it, but that didn't change anything.

Laura33

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2017, 07:02:47 AM »
Eh, you know, we are not her target audience.  She's talking to the folks for whom "invest up to the match in your 401(k)" is a novel concept, for whom "no car loans longer than 3 years" is a massive lifestyle cut.  If the average American followed her advice, they'd be much better off.

She is also conservative; IIRC, she has millions in bonds, so she can be confident that she will have sufficient income forever no matter what happens to the market.  And, hey, she can afford to be; she doesn't require 8-10% returns to support her lifestyle, and it's not like she has multiple kids she wants to leave vast sums to.  So of course she is focused on the downside risks -- and that's a good thing, because most average Americans err in the other direction and just assume that things will magically work out for them.

Her advice here pretty clearly comes from decades of being asked "can I retire at [55/60/62]?" from people who can't math -- people who see $500K in investments at 60 and think that's a huge number and so they'll be just fine with their $80K/yr lifestyle (or, worse, don't even know what their lifestyle costs).  So, yeah, if you're not going to pay attention and do the work on the financial side, you'd better plan to work at your paid job as long as you can -- which includes, as she says, staying engaged and active to increase your odds of even having the opportunity to work that long.

Tl;dr:  I don't see anything wrong with that article for its target audience.

talltexan

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2017, 07:05:15 AM »
So if I were to boil Dave Ramsey down to one idea, it would be: figure out how to live your life such that you are never in debt.

What's Suze Orman's signature idea?

sokoloff

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2017, 07:09:28 AM »
What's Suze Orman's signature idea?
Her common tagline is "People first, then money, then things."

Given that lots of Americans put "things" first, that's maybe not so terrible.

I'm not sure boiling anyone or any philosophy down to one line is particularly accurate or generous. (Dave Ramsey is better for average American than the average American is naturally; doesn't mean that I think that "live without debt" is anywhere close to optimal.)

What is MMM's one signature idea?

MrMoneySaver

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2017, 07:40:39 AM »
Quote
What is MMM's one signature idea?

Live far below your means and you can buy your financial freedom way earlier than anyone would think possible.

sokoloff

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2017, 07:45:31 AM »
Quote
What is MMM's one signature idea?
Live far below your means and you can buy your financial freedom way earlier than anyone would think possible.
Damn; that's a good answer.

mbl

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2017, 08:05:08 AM »
The life expectancy for a male in the US is about 77 years. My plan is to retire next year at age 56. Would I rather plan for a 21 year retirement or maybe just 7 years? This is a no brainer for me. And the thought of working at Mega-Gov for 15 more years is unimaginable for me.

Your statement in bold above, sparked a thought.

For many here on MMM, their jobs are demanding, stressful and unpleasant. 
A means to an end.
Often there is the focus on ER as the point at which one will finally be happy.

So, perhaps, again, for some, they are miserable now in hopes of being happy later.
Being frugal and living carefully now so as to earn happy later.  For those individuals, ER is more
critical in a way.

But, for many, many others....the here and now is a happy place and time.
It isn't dependent on being FI.   It's based on their ability to be happy no matter what their fiscal
circumstances currently are.   Being FI and then ER isn't some radical change from what is occurring for them now.

Moreover, for those with a lot of vacation time and flexibility it becomes even less of an issue.

For DH and I, the major shift into an easier lifestyle(time and energy wise) occurred when our two kids left for college.
Both pretty much were out on their own by the time they graduated.

JMHO



talltexan

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2017, 08:17:52 AM »
Quote
What is MMM's one signature idea?
Live far below your means and you can buy your financial freedom way earlier than anyone would think possible.
Damn; that's a good answer.

That summary misses the morality Pete espouses of using money only when it materially improves quality of life/happiness. Honestly, a whole separate thread would probably be warranted for such a discussion, this should stay about Suze Orman.

Ramblin' Ma'am

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2017, 09:07:37 AM »
So if I were to boil Dave Ramsey down to one idea, it would be: figure out how to live your life such that you are never in debt.

What's Suze Orman's signature idea?

In some ways similar to Dave Ramsey but without the religious conservatism or anti-credit card sentiments. However, she's definitely risk-averse to the extreme (has very little $ in the stock market herself, tells people never to retire early, etc.)


mm1970

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2017, 10:24:06 AM »
I think she’s also ignoring downsizing and ageism. Even if you want to work until you are 70, you might not be able to find and employer that wants you. You’ll be too frail for a physically demanding job even if you are in relatively good shape for your age. Most old people I have met haven’t been great with technology even if they have access to it. I know some older folks are competent computer users, but most are going to need to be retrained on basic computer concepts daily.

When I worked retail, we hired an older guy to work in the backroom. I had to show him how to log on to his scanner every single day. This is something I showed my younger guys once on their first day and never had to show them again. This old guy was also a physical train wreck from decades as an electrician. I felt bad when they let him go. I think he really needed the job.  Even that basic retail job was beyond his physical and cognitive capabilities at his age.

I don’t think saving for early retirement is a luxury anymore. Even if you are ok with the idea of working until you are 70, your employer probably isn’t.
This is a good point, and that's why I said she has good points.

Plan for working until 70 doesn't mean "Spend like you are going to work until 70".  I think it's good advice for many people.

Look, I know many people who won't be able to work until 70:
- Many of my family members work in very physical jobs.  They aren't going to physically be able to work until 70.
- Ageism is a thing.  How many 65 year old engineers do companies really need?  And will these engineers be willing to work for the same pay as a 35 year old engineer?
- Brain power.  I work with a lot of engineers who are 60-70.  I can see that age often slows you down.  The number of projects you can handle goes down.  The speed with which you handle projects goes down.  Luckily, experience makes up for a lot of that.  I'm only 47 and I can tell you that I've experienced this already.  My friends in their 50s are at least able to make up for it with longer hours, as their kids are grown.

So, don't kill me, I'm planning to work until 70.  If I can work as an engineer until then, great!  If I end up doing something else, that's fine too.  Part time is fine for me too.

I really value stability and having lots of money in savings.  I don't want to be old and poor.  It's a huge driving factor for me.

sokoloff

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2017, 11:01:45 AM »
How many 65 year old engineers do companies really need?  And will these engineers be willing to work for the same pay as a 35 year old engineer?
If they create the same amount of value as that 35 year old engineer, they'd better be prepared to work for the same pay, IMO.

Loren Ver

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2017, 11:11:56 AM »
I think she makes some good points even if they aren't applicable to me. 

She talks a lot about compound interest and many regular people don't see the power or why it is important.  She may be on the conservative side (or fad side) but compounding interest that is something everyone needs to understand both to use for themselves (investment) and not be used by (credit). 

Also, if someone thinks they need to work to 70, that doesn't mean doing the same job until they are 70.  I plan to retire in about 2.5 years.  My desire to learn new job only skills is really low.  My desire to learn life skills is much higher (yah welding!).  My-coworker that plans to work until 55 is getting new certifications so she stays relevant and has more options. 

Now not everyone is capable of this, but if you need to take on more years, then maybe that will light a bulb on the "do I want to be doing this."

LV

shunkman

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2017, 03:13:28 PM »
The life expectancy for a male in the US is about 77 years. My plan is to retire next year at age 56. Would I rather plan for a 21 year retirement or maybe just 7 years? This is a no brainer for me. And the thought of working at Mega-Gov for 15 more years is unimaginable for me.

Your statement in bold above, sparked a thought.

For many here on MMM, their jobs are demanding, stressful and unpleasant. 
A means to an end.
Often there is the focus on ER as the point at which one will finally be happy.

So, perhaps, again, for some, they are miserable now in hopes of being happy later.
Being frugal and living carefully now so as to earn happy later.  For those individuals, ER is more
critical in a way.

But, for many, many others....the here and now is a happy place and time.
It isn't dependent on being FI.   It's based on their ability to be happy no matter what their fiscal
circumstances currently are.   Being FI and then ER isn't some radical change from what is occurring for them now.

Moreover, for those with a lot of vacation time and flexibility it becomes even less of an issue.

For DH and I, the major shift into an easier lifestyle(time and energy wise) occurred when our two kids left for college.
Both pretty much were out on their own by the time they graduated.

JMHO

Yes, I am definitely in this category; "For many here on MMM, their jobs are demanding, stressful and unpleasant. 
A means to an end". 

I feel that if I had to work until 70 doing what I do now then I might not even live to be 70. Stress kills....



Larsg

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2017, 03:39:58 PM »
a large number of men die soon after retiring (women are generally fine),

Ah, but do these men retire because they're in ill health, or do they retire and then get sick?

Or, lack the imagination or someone to challenge challenge them to dream and consider something different, something far better. The notion of living and enjoying life beyond work has been crushed out of so many for so long that sadly, they could just never imagine it for themselves or their family. Tragic really.

stachestache

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2017, 07:58:27 PM »
Suse Orman is a scam artist.

I am referencing her pre-paid "approved card" here. (as in "you're approved BOYFRIEND!!)

For those not familiar, she sold the idea of a pre-paid debit card to consumers who were in bad financial shape and looking to improve their credit score. It turned out that her card did not have any influence on the individual's credit score.

Actual features of the card included:
$3/mo fee
$3 sign up fee
$2 customer service call fee after the first free call (LOL, that is just fucked up)
Bill pay fees up to $30

I do not have any personal experience with this card and do not recall seeing ads of her pushing it before it was shut down but I happened to recently stumble on a YouTube video detailing her sketchy dealings. Anyway...felt the need to share.

There was a time when I enjoyed watching her show, sometime when I had access to cable. Hell, I'd probably still stop and watch it if I happened to be flipping through the cable channels I do not have and caught it on the brainwash box.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 08:11:24 PM by stachestache »

MrsPete

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2017, 08:20:31 PM »
She has more followers than I do.
I'm sure your mother told you:  What's popular isn't always right, and what's right isn't always popular. 

Zamboni

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2017, 08:35:32 PM »
I agree with her (unoriginal) advice that most people should delay taking social security until the age that gives the highest monthly check.

She's crazy to think that most employers will allow someone to work until 70 . . . many simply will not.

My employer has an uneven track record on letting older people stay. One guy managed to stay until his 80's because everyone loved him, but most people are pushed out in their early 60's. Which leaves what, exactly? WalMart greeter jobs? Cashier at the local pet store?

No, thanks, I'll be in fine shape to retire comfortably well before I hit my 60's . . . although I do plan to wait until 72 to draw social security. If I work until 70, it will only be because my job is fun and I'm just lucky that I haven't been forced out.

pbkmaine

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2017, 09:52:17 PM »
I agree with her (unoriginal) advice that most people should delay taking social security until the age that gives the highest monthly check.

She's crazy to think that most employers will allow someone to work until 70 . . . many simply will not.

My employer has an uneven track record on letting older people stay. One guy managed to stay until his 80's because everyone loved him, but most people are pushed out in their early 60's. Which leaves what, exactly? WalMart greeter jobs? Cashier at the local pet store?

No, thanks, I'll be in fine shape to retire comfortably well before I hit my 60's . . . although I do plan to wait until 72 to draw social security. If I work until 70, it will only be because my job is fun and I'm just lucky that I haven't been forced out.

Age 70 gives you the highest SS benefit. No need to wait until 72.

coppertop

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2017, 07:57:11 AM »
I agree with her (unoriginal) advice that most people should delay taking social security until the age that gives the highest monthly check.

She's crazy to think that most employers will allow someone to work until 70 . . . many simply will not.

My employer has an uneven track record on letting older people stay. One guy managed to stay until his 80's because everyone loved him, but most people are pushed out in their early 60's. Which leaves what, exactly? WalMart greeter jobs? Cashier at the local pet store?

No, thanks, I'll be in fine shape to retire comfortably well before I hit my 60's . . . although I do plan to wait until 72 to draw social security. If I work until 70, it will only be because my job is fun and I'm just lucky that I haven't been forced out.
I work at a law firm that allows the geezers to stay until they are ready to drop.  I'm not kidding; we have a guy who's 88, comes in to foul up the bathroom and screw up the copier, eat lunch with cronies, leaving a mess behind for the maintenance guy to clean up, and make a general pest of himself.  He has few clients, since most of them predeceased him.  There are a few others that are right behind him in age and repeating the same behavior.  I am not a lawyer (I'm administration) and I am leaving now, before I become a dinosaur.  My predecessor was 77 at retirement, who refused to use a computer and kept the entire place enslaved to an outmoded way of doing everything.  Most people should NOT work until they are ready to drop over.  They might think they are productive, but I'd be willing to bet that in most cases, they are not and just drag everyone else down.  It's ego and greed that keeps them shackled to their desks.  Not for me, thanks.  I'm going while I'm still healthy and have plenty of time to enjoy life.

mathlete

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2017, 08:47:15 AM »
Suzie Orman strikes me as a bit of a lavish spender. And her advice is well-suited to people like her.

I've graduated beyond Suzie's advice, but I'll always be grateful for her. I caught one of her shows on CNBC once when I was a teen and it got my brain thinking about this stuff. I then downloaded episodes of her show from iTunes on to my iPod (yes, iPod).

BlueHouse

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #42 on: October 25, 2017, 09:39:57 AM »
... And retiring isn’t necessarily beneficial for everyone, a large number of men die soon after retiring (women are generally fine), so continuing to work in some capacity is a good thing. ...
That's because women continue to work in the home.  Men generally sit on the couch and watch football while yelling for their wife to bring them a beer.  :)

sokoloff

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2017, 10:11:24 AM »
... And retiring isn’t necessarily beneficial for everyone, a large number of men die soon after retiring (women are generally fine), so continuing to work in some capacity is a good thing. ...
That's because women continue to work in the home.  Men generally sit on the couch and watch football while yelling for their wife to bring them a beer.  :)
If I did that, my life expectancy would be short indeed...

pachnik

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2017, 10:23:31 AM »
I agree with her (unoriginal) advice that most people should delay taking social security until the age that gives the highest monthly check.

She's crazy to think that most employers will allow someone to work until 70 . . . many simply will not.

This!  I don't think people can count on working to 70 realistically.  As is pointed out in this thread, lots of employers don't want older workers.  Also, health is a factor as we age.  I may not be able to work until I am 70 due to health issues.  This is one of the reasons I hang around this place.  I want to be okay retiring rather than being pushed out due to age. 

pachnik

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #45 on: October 25, 2017, 10:28:19 AM »
I work at a law firm that allows the geezers to stay until they are ready to drop.  I'm not kidding; we have a guy who's 88, comes in to foul up the bathroom and screw up the copier, eat lunch with cronies, leaving a mess behind for the maintenance guy to clean up, and make a general pest of himself.  He has few clients, since most of them predeceased him.  There are a few others that are right behind him in age and repeating the same behavior.  I am not a lawyer (I'm administration) and I am leaving now, before I become a dinosaur.  My predecessor was 77 at retirement, who refused to use a computer and kept the entire place enslaved to an outmoded way of doing everything.  Most people should NOT work until they are ready to drop over.  They might think they are productive, but I'd be willing to bet that in most cases, they are not and just drag everyone else down.  It's ego and greed that keeps them shackled to their desks.  Not for me, thanks.  I'm going while I'm still healthy and have plenty of time to enjoy life.

I also work in law as a legal admin. assistant.   One good thing about it is that age and experience are valued.   However, I don't want to have to work once I turn 60.


mm1970

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #46 on: October 25, 2017, 11:24:50 AM »
How many 65 year old engineers do companies really need?  And will these engineers be willing to work for the same pay as a 35 year old engineer?
If they create the same amount of value as that 35 year old engineer, they'd better be prepared to work for the same pay, IMO.
I agree.  It's something I try to remind myself constantly.

I think there's this idea all across the US that people expect their pay is always going to go up.  But, you know, it's not.  Much like the military is a pyramid, so are many companies.

We have a lot of "older" people at my company (at 47, I'm young)  The knowledge and experience that most of our directors have brought to the company are very very valuable.  What you get with someone with experience is the almost instant answer because they've seen it all before.

But that isn't true of everyone.  I've also worked with senior people who aren't able to keep up.  They can work on 1 or 2 projects at a time, but not 4 or 5, like when they were younger.  So a mediocre engineer who can do 1 or 2 things (but well) is worth about the same as a more junior engineer who can handle more projects.

Some of the most successful (and happy) people I've worked with are practical, frugal, and mustachian. These are the people who can move effortlessly from engineering to management to director to VP and back again.  They don't have the need to have a certain income above a certain level.

Everyone needs to be willing and able to accept lateral moves or downward moves from time to time.

MrsPete

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #47 on: October 25, 2017, 11:26:29 AM »
I don’t think saving for early retirement is a luxury anymore. Even if you are ok with the idea of working until you are 70, your employer probably isn’t.
You're right, of course, that many people physically can't continue in their jobs after a certain age. 

And I've seen a couple people who are REALLY not up with technology:  The other day I had a quick conversation with the custodian, and he asked me if I'd give him information on something we'd just discussed.  I said, "Sure, write down your email for me."  He took my note pad, looked uncomfortable a minute, then copied down his Employee ID # from his work badge.  I was a little shocked, and rather than tell him he was completely ignorant of a major method of communication these days, I just said, "You know, I think I'll just print it for you."  He looked massively relieved. 

In addition to these items, however, two more reasons we can't realistically all work 'til 70:

- By the time you've reached 50, you're probably making as much money as the company's willing to pay you /as much money as your job can reasonably pay (every job has a value within society).  You're not going to be satisfied staying at the top of the salary scale for two decades, and your boss is going to figure out that he can ditch you and hire two younger workers at the bottom of the salary scale. 
- If we current workers stay in our jobs 'til 70, the younger folks just out of college aren't going to be able to find positions in the work force -- especially with technology taking away some jobs. 


MrsPete

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #48 on: October 25, 2017, 11:27:53 AM »
Eh, you know, we are not her target audience.  She's talking to the folks for whom "invest up to the match in your 401(k)" is a novel concept, for whom "no car loans longer than 3 years" is a massive lifestyle cut.  If the average American followed her advice, they'd be much better off.
And that's fine.  We're not all trying to achieve the same goals.  Just because you and I aren't motivated by her message doesn't mean someone else won't learn something from her. 

dude

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Re: Suzie Orman: Working until 70 (or later) should be the goal of everyone
« Reply #49 on: October 25, 2017, 11:50:12 AM »
The life expectancy for a male in the US is about 77 years. My plan is to retire next year at age 56. Would I rather plan for a 21 year retirement or maybe just 7 years? This is a no brainer for me. And the thought of working at Mega-Gov for 15 more years is unimaginable for me.

I think Ms. Orman is out of touch on many issues. Is she still even relevant in the world of personal finance?

That life expectancy is a median figure.  Half will live longer, half will not. Since you are 56, the chances have increased substantially that you will live longer.  Indeed, according to the SS Actuarial tables, you've got another 24.67 years left in you.

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!