Support expectations from your parent or of your children

[Villanelle]

Had a recent visit from my mother-in-law.  She lives across the country with her husband (who is older than her and not in fantastic health) and her adult son. (Addiction issues for many years, unemployed.)  She dropped several non-subtle hints about maybe living with us someday.  When we last saw her prior to this, her husband told a story about his sick sister, and it ended with a comment about how shameful it was that her children didn't do more when she had a medical procedure and needed help during recovery.  I got the sense this might also be a pointed hint.

MIL has never been rich, but she's had money she's chosen to spend in various non-mustachian ways.  (Large SF home, enabling BIL for years, paying for private school for BILs kids when they were still in his life, stayin gin HCOL area, letting new husband move into her home, non-practical cars, etc.)  So if she needs financial rescue, it is through her own choices.  I have a pretty serious problem with the idea that she thinks we are obligated to move her in here at some point. 

(I don't actively dislike the woman, but she has never made an effort to get to know me beyond polite formalities or be a part of our lives.  Any effort has been on our part.  She has repeatedly shown us we are not a priority or valued relationship.  I'd give examples, but they'd be easily identifiable and this is already pretty personal to post.  But the bottom line is, she has never pursued being a meaningful part of our lives and has shown us we aren't much a part of hers, especially if it requires effort on her part rather than ours.)

Do your parents expect you to pitch in, including housing them and supporting them financially?  Are you on board with that, and if so, do you have a line you have drawn or will drawn?  (E.g., "we will send a small monthly stipend or offer to pay rent on a modest apartment, but that's it,"  Or "no living with us.")

And if you have kids, especially if you are older and they are well into adulthood, what do you expect of them?  What do you think is reasonable to ask or expect of them, should you need assistance of some kind? 


ETA:  I'm not looking for marital advice.  DH and I have had many conversations about familial support--not just about his mom but also about his brother and my parents.  I didn't say DH and I haven't discussed it and I didn't imply we weren't on the same page. We are generally in agreement, at least while this is still theoretical, sincew we both admit--and have discussed--the fact that saying it is one thing and turning down guilt trips and sob stories from family will be much tougher in reality.  But we've talked many times and are in basic agreement, despite fome of you assuming otherwise. I posted because I'm curious about how other people view the obligations/responsibilities of a child toward their parent, especially because DH's mom (and her husband) seem to have very different views on this than I (and DH, too!) do. 

[AuspiciousEight]

Honestly - and this may seem like a copout - but I think this is really a long discussion you should have with your DH about how he feels about it, how you feel about it, etc.

There are a lot of really intelligent people here, but at the end of the day it's your life, and no one else should really have much influence over this decision except you and your DH because it's so personal.

I can tell you from personal experience that DW and I have had various friends and family members, including a parent, in the past living with us - and it's never once worked out very well. But we were also dealing with gang members, alcoholics, etc, so of course it didn't work out very well. We were dealing with the lowest, most uneducated, sometimes convicted criminals in our society. 

I know other people who moved in with their in laws, and children, and they all get along really well because they're all clean, respectful of each other, work hard and contribute, have open communication, etc. So it just sort of depends on the people I think.

In your shoes I would probably spend a lot of time chatting with your DH about it and being very honest about how you feel, expectations, what will occur if there are disagreements, how responsibilities will be divided up, etc.

Good luck.   

[flyingsnakes]

Seems like a discussion you should have had before you married your husband. My wife and I agree that we lived with our parents for 18 years while they were taking care of all our financial needs, so it's only right that we help them out in a probably less intrusive way when they need help. Most all of historic human societies have been based around this dynamic.

[maisymouser]

I'm sorry to hear that you're dealing with what could potentially be an awkward or maybe stressful situation down the line.  I don't think children are obligated to care for their parents unless it is out of their own choice. That's my personal perspective, but I recognize that it is an acceptable one in the culture I grew up in.

The closest situation I can imagine in my own life is having an alcoholic sibling in law that is being supported by my in-laws. When they are no longer able to shield her from the consequences of her own actions, I fear she will come knocking on our door. In which case DH and I are already on the same page, and we will not be providing assistance.

You need to definitely be having discussions with your husband about this if you haven't already. There are some red flags in your post.

[Scandium]

Seems like a discussion you should have had before you married your husband. My wife and I agree that we lived with our parents for 18 years while they were taking care of all our financial needs, so it's only right that we help them out in a probably less intrusive way when they need help. Most all of historic human societies have been based around this dynamic.

So has child labor, forced marriage, and lack of indoor plumbing. Doesn't mean it's a good idea, or comfortable for anyone involved.

Just spent a weekend at my MIL's. I'll pay any amount of money to a home for her to stay there, rather than living with us. And living with her would bother me less than it would my wife..

[tooqk4u22]

First, helping someone out or letting them stay with you for a short timeframe after a surgery or such for short and quantifiable time frame is reasonable and is what decent person would do.

But, that's not what you are talking about.  Myself and DW each have a parent (all divorced) that pretty much fit you description.  And at times we have helped here and there with money and time, including letting one live with us after an accident, and it took a very long time to get them back on their own (hence the comment above). 

Each were slow moving trainwreck financially and the outcome, absent winning the lottery, was fairly pre-ordained as even with discussions, setbacks, and whatever the willingness to change or alter course was never on the table - spend, spend, spend....debt, debt, debt!  I simply don't have it in me to give up our resources that were accumulated through discipline, effort, a little luck I am sure, and a lot of time not spending on stupid stuff.   

We partially "fixed" one of them by getting them out of the condo they were probably going to lose and into an affordable housing apartment where rent is based on income, it took about five years to convince them that was the best path and another year on waiting lists.

I know trust funds can be burden, but I sure would like to carry that stress instead.

[seattlecyclone]

I live far enough from my parents that to help them after a medical procedure would involve a plane ride, and we don't have the type of relationship where that would really ever be expected on short notice. They have enough savings and frugality that they shouldn't seek money or housing or anything like that from me as long as social security and the stock market remain in existence (looking like much less of a given than it did last year, but I digress...).

I have taken on a financial advisory/tax preparation role for them in their retirement. If and when they need more support with daily living activities I expect my sisters will take the lead on helping them choose next steps, as they live closer and are also in healthcare occupations. There's been no talk of having my parents live with any of their kids, nor do I think my siblings or I would be interested in hosting them except as a very last resort. I'll do what it takes to make sure they don't go homeless, but (again...assuming the continued existence of social security and our investment system) that's not even a remote concern at this point.

[partgypsy]

The way I feel, it goes both ways. The households where the elder parent moves in are often pretty traditional and set up the oldest son financially usually, by helping them buy their first house, starting or handing down a business. Then when the parents are frail, the parents live with that son. Then there is the American way of, yes maybe or maybe not paying for college, but in general the parents having the kid fly solo, and both live separately. The problem is, when there is not reciprocacy; the older parent sets up the child and the child shirks parental duties. or the parent is not involved in the success of the child but then feels should be bailed out.

[Laura33]

Seems like a discussion you should have had before you married your husband. My wife and I agree that we lived with our parents for 18 years while they were taking care of all our financial needs, so it's only right that we help them out in a probably less intrusive way when they need help. Most all of historic human societies have been based around this dynamic.

So has child labor, forced marriage, and lack of indoor plumbing. Doesn't mean it's a good idea, or comfortable for anyone involved.

Just spent a weekend at my MIL's. I'll pay any amount of money to a home for her to stay there, rather than living with us. And it would bother me less than it would my wife..

100% on all of this.  If I ever tried to live with my mother, one of us would be murdered within a month.  And I love her dearly and am very close to her.

I don't think whether/what you talked about before marriage matters, because what you thought you understood 10 or 20 or 40 years ago can be very very different than the way things turn out.  I do, however, think that the first step is talking with your spouse now about their preferences and expectations.  That way you can at least plan for it and have a consistent, prepared story for the MIL about exactly what you are/aren't willing to do. 

Don't ever expect her to agree, of course; people who communicate by dropping passive-aggressive hints don't tend to be the kind to hold a reasonable discussion and happily accept some compromise solution.  But also don't let her guilt you into anything you are not comfortable with or don't want to do, period.  "No" is a complete sentence.

[Scandium]

Seems like a discussion you should have had before you married your husband. My wife and I agree that we lived with our parents for 18 years while they were taking care of all our financial needs, so it's only right that we help them out in a probably less intrusive way when they need help. Most all of historic human societies have been based around this dynamic.

So has child labor, forced marriage, and lack of indoor plumbing. Doesn't mean it's a good idea, or comfortable for anyone involved.

Just spent a weekend at my MIL's. I'll pay any amount of money to a home for her to stay there, rather than living with us. And it would bother me less than it would my wife..

100% on all of this.  If I ever tried to live with my mother, one of us would be murdered within a month.  And I love her dearly and am very close to her.

"Luckily" my MIL has gotten so crotchety that after we've visited for <2 days she starts to ask when we're leaving.. There is zero risk she'd want to live with us, or anyone.

[simonsez]

We've been verbal with both sets of parents for many years that someday if it made sense we would be happy to help our elderly parents with a place to live. We've been explicit that it wouldn't be direct financial help but an in-law suite with its own bathroom and kitchen area is very doable.

They are currently 70, 70, 70, and 64. We love hanging out with all of them and average seeing each set about twice a week (will be much higher if childcare plans change). Both sets still happily married to their first spouse and we are all in the same metro area by design. Based on family history and barring any rapid onset health issues, I think we are okay with the status quo for at least 10 if not 15 years or more.  By that time my wife and I would be mid 50s and in a financial spot to be flexible.

We are entertainers and plan is to move into a house to suit our needs (including this space for one or two single, infirm parents). We will find out in a year or two what the final size of our nuclear family will be and that will help inform decisions in our early to mid 40s. For the meantime, we have been living in a small house and only want to make one more move to roughly cover our 40s to 70s.

Our parents like their independence and that's easy when you have all of your faculties and most of your organs not to mention a healthy, living spouse. We shall see what the future brings.  Wife and I both have one sibling but it's clear any parental care would fall mostly on us and given our situations, we're okay with that role.  When we moved back from DC in 2017, we lived with my inlaws for 9 months while getting our legs under us and house-shopping and we still reminisce about how wonderful that time was.

Lots could be subject to change! When one wants to move in, if we still have young-ish children or a relationship with a parent drastically changes or we simply don't have the money to do what we thought, my priority is still to my wife and kids first. For now, I imagine our situation and rough plan is the exception in American society and not really the norm. I mean, we've all to some extent built our lives together and have family vacation properties on both sides that we co-manage. YMMV, communication is the key no matter what, though.

[Villanelle]

I'm sorry to hear that you're dealing with what could potentially be an awkward or maybe stressful situation down the line.  I don't think children are obligated to care for their parents unless it is out of their own choice. That's my personal perspective, but I recognize that it is an acceptable one in the culture I grew up in.

The closest situation I can imagine in my own life is having an alcoholic sibling in law that is being supported by my in-laws. When they are no longer able to shield her from the consequences of her own actions, I fear she will come knocking on our door. In which case DH and I are already on the same page, and we will not be providing assistance.

You need to definitely be having discussions with your husband about this if you haven't already. There are some red flags in your post.

And what red flags are those.

I edited the OP, but I'll post this here, too.


DH and I have had many conversations about familial support--not just about his mom but also about his brother and my parents.  I didn't say DH and I haven't discussed it and I didn't imply we weren't on the same page. We are generally in agreement, at least while this is still theoretical, since we both admit--and have discussed--the fact that saying it is one thing and turning down guilt trips and sob stories from family will be much tougher in reality.  But we've talked many times and are in basic agreement, despite some of you assuming otherwise. I posted because I'm curious about how other people view the obligations/responsibilities of a child toward their parent, especially because DH's mom (and her husband) seem to have very different views on this than I (and DH, too!) do.

[sonofsven]

My mom is in good health at 85, but I have kicked around the idea of moving up to her place (3+ hrs from me) as she is having trouble finishing tasks and staying organized; nothing "dangerous" yet, but still. She has also mentioned in passing that maybe she should move into an apartment as she realizes that she just doesn't have the same energy she used to have. I began doing monthly visits this year and I spend the majority of my time cleaning, tidying, organizing, recycling, and doing little fix it chores.
She can afford to have a housekeeper but has had a hard time finding someone in her rural location.
My sister and her family built a house on the property, but my sister passed away two years ago, and my BIL and nephews are somewhat worthless. Easy for me to say, I guess, since I live three hours away. But I still feel they could do more to help.
If I lived in her house, though, I think I would go a little crazy, and we have a very good relationship; it's also the house I grew up in, and my dad grew up in, so a lot of family history.
Ideally I would want to build a small place of my own, which is a little impractical as I wouldn't sell my place 3 hours south of her so I would be going back and forth a lot. It would be a great little water view property though (yes, I already designed it in my head, lol-that's what builders do).
So, for now, I am doing monthly visits, but I'm anticipating that may change.

[Villanelle]

The way I feel, it goes both ways. The households where the elder parent moves in are often pretty traditional and set up the oldest son usually, by helping them with a house purchase, starting it handing down a business. Then when the parents are frail, the parents live with that son. Then there is the American way of, yes maybe or maybe not paying for college, but in general the parents having the kid fly solo, and both live separately. The problem is, when there is not reciprocacy; the older parent sets up the child and the child shirks parental duties. or the parent is not involved in the success of the child but then feels should be bailed out.

MIL was NOT an active or supportive mother to DH, even when he was still a minor under his care.  Forget helping with a house or handing down a business, or even helping with college.  He had to work and buy most of his own clothes in high school, for example.

We found out MIL was married to current husband (who DH and I both really like, based on our limited interactions) because I saw a post about the wedding that she was tagged in by one of his kids.  She didn't tell her son she was married, and he found out on social media.  And saw pics of the husband's kids present at the ceremony. (It was a surprise to everyone there, who thought it was just a family gathering.)  This is the level of "not involved" we are talking about.  If I'm not on your "tell me about your wedding" list, you aren't on my "live in my guest room" list. 

[Catbert]

I'm in my 70s so likely closer in age to you in-laws than you.  My mother worked in a convalance hospital (aka nursing home) as an LVN.  She made me promise that if she ended up in such a place that I'd visit her once a week and bring a cartin of cigarettes.  Unfortunately, she died at 58 so I never had to fulfill that promise.  My father was an active alcoholic his entire adult life so I didn't think I owed him anything.  I took him to in-patient rehab shortly after my mom's death.  I made clear that I was driving him there just this once and would not be turning into my mother who spent her life taking care of an alcoholic.

I have no children. My DH has Alzheimer's Disease and two middle aged sons who don't live in our area.  All I require is that they call him semi-regularly.  I hope that I can get some respite care yearly with either step-sons or sisters-in-laws.  I don't need money from anyone. 

I do think that you need to casually respond to any casual comments from your in-laws.  If the comments are more pointed then so should your response be.  Responses could range from:

<laughing>.  Oh, you're serious?
I'm sure BIL  will help with that when the time comes.
I hope you have a Plan B, because that's no happening.
I'll help you get on low-cost housing lists.
Would you like me to go through your budget and see how you can save money?

Edited to add:  We did provide some monetary and other support to my now deceased MIL after FIL died.  They had moved from a HCOL city to rural Texas when they retired.  After FIL died she had his small non-inflation adjusted pension and SS. (She lost her spousal SS when he died.)  DH visited 3-4 times a year (1200 miles away) and did maintenance on her single wide trailer.  An amazing number of major appliances died over the years while he was there so we purchased replacements.  We bought her a new car - maybe even two.  When she visited us, we always bought the plane ticket. We didn't provide monthly money although we would have if it had become necessary.  She lived a frugal retirement life, so it wasn't necessary.


 

[wageslave23]

The way I feel, it goes both ways. The households where the elder parent moves in are often pretty traditional and set up the oldest son usually, by helping them with a house purchase, starting it handing down a business. Then when the parents are frail, the parents live with that son. Then there is the American way of, yes maybe or maybe not paying for college, but in general the parents having the kid fly solo, and both live separately. The problem is, when there is not reciprocacy; the older parent sets up the child and the child shirks parental duties. or the parent is not involved in the success of the child but then feels should be bailed out.

MIL was NOT an active or supportive mother to DH, even when he was still a minor under his care.  Forget helping with a house or handing down a business, or even helping with college.  He had to work and buy most of his own clothes in high school, for example.

We found out MIL was married to current husband (who DH and I both really like, based on our limited interactions) because I saw a post about the wedding that she was tagged in by one of his kids.  She didn't tell her son she was married, and he found out on social media.  And saw pics of the husband's kids present at the ceremony. (It was a surprise to everyone there, who thought it was just a family gathering.)  This is the level of "not involved" we are talking about.  If I'm not on your "tell me about your wedding" list, you aren't on my "live in my guest room" list.

I feel like this shouldn't even be a question.  Just be courteous to them, but you have no obligation to help them financially or otherwise.  You should only help parents if you really want to. Parents are obligated to support children because they chose to have them and children can't take care of themselves.  Parents have the ability to support themselves and have the obligation to plan for the day when they can't care for themselves.  Children aren't some kind of safety net or crutch.

I would never want my kids to feel obligated to do anything for me. Except maybe call once in a while and let me visit here and there. I think any expectations beyond that is selfish of the parents.  Choosing to have children and supporting them is a pay it forward type of thing, not a transactional - I helped you, now you have to help me thing.

[mistymoney]

well my parents were a bit of a pill, xils were difficult, so would be a tough decision.

oth, I'm delightful :)

[Dave1442397]

My 95-year-old mother-in-law has ended up living with us by default. She fell and broke her hip almost two years ago, and at the time we knew she wasn't ready to go home (over an hour away) after rehab, so she came to our house for what we thought would be a couple of months.

She hasn't ever really recovered, and both mentally and physically is in no shape to live alone. What saved my sanity is the fact that she can't climb stairs without help, and we live in a split-level with five sets of steps between levels. The only area with an accessible bathroom is what was our family room, so she moved in there. We got a hospital bed and walker, etc.

Basically we've lost that room (and the large TV with surround sound!) for a few years. I can live with that. If she were wandering around the house all day it would drive me crazy. She used to move things around a lot to suit her tastes in earlier years. I called her the Polterguest.

After my father-in-law died, we tried to get her to sell her condo and move either to our area or we would use the money to build out the family room into more of an in-law suite, but she's never faced reality in her life and she's not starting now. So, here we are.

She still talks about going back to live in her condo, but even her doctor has been telling her that's not happening. We're hoping she'll just die quietly in her sleep before it gets to the point where a nursing home is the only option. She also tells my wife that she's bored and feels like a prisoner, and I say yeah, that's what happens when you refuse to make any decisions about your life - you end up having other people make them for you.

[okits]

The way I feel, it goes both ways. The households where the elder parent moves in are often pretty traditional and set up the oldest son usually, by helping them with a house purchase, starting it handing down a business. Then when the parents are frail, the parents live with that son. Then there is the American way of, yes maybe or maybe not paying for college, but in general the parents having the kid fly solo, and both live separately. The problem is, when there is not reciprocacy; the older parent sets up the child and the child shirks parental duties. or the parent is not involved in the success of the child but then feels should be bailed out.

MIL was NOT an active or supportive mother to DH, even when he was still a minor under his care.  Forget helping with a house or handing down a business, or even helping with college.  He had to work and buy most of his own clothes in high school, for example.

We found out MIL was married to current husband (who DH and I both really like, based on our limited interactions) because I saw a post about the wedding that she was tagged in by one of his kids.  She didn't tell her son she was married, and he found out on social media.  And saw pics of the husband's kids present at the ceremony. (It was a surprise to everyone there, who thought it was just a family gathering.)  This is the level of "not involved" we are talking about.  If I'm not on your "tell me about your wedding" list, you aren't on my "live in my guest room" list.

What @partgypsy said about reciprocity is very relevant.  @Villanelle , if you/your DH ever says "you're not the sort of mother to invite us to your wedding, so we're not the kind of kids to take care of you in your old age", I would love to hear all about it. 

On the eldercare front, I am very tired.  I've been continuously caregiving in some capacity for a dozen years, since my early 30s.  I've learned that people who feel they are in need can have surprising entitlement to others' time, energy, and resources.  For even formerly reasonable people, due to illness or the pressure of their circumstances, their wellbeing and wants are front of their mind and the cost to their family caregivers is not a consideration.

For me, there's a balance between my feelings of duty, the nature of the familial relationship, the detriment (to myself, my spouse, my young children), how much the family member has done to help themselves (what was legitimately within their power), and what I want.  There are hard "no" items (like living with us) that I will not budge on.  There are "these are the consequences of your choices" issues that I am not going to remedy.  And I'm not willing to write a blank cheque on my money or energy.  I'm not a bottomless well of free labour for anyone willing to stoop to guilt trips.  What my DH and I provide has criteria around its reasonableness (for instance, we are not a substitute for the care provided by moving into a facility, if that's the point the family member is at).  I am mostly unapologetic about this, no one but us is going to make sure caregiving doesn't kill us, ruin our marriage, devastate our finances, or rob our children of their parents (the time, resources, energy, emotional energy they deserve as children). 

I think I sound used up.  I can only imagine how I'd sound if we didn't have the boundaries we do. 

She also tells my wife that she's bored and feels like a prisoner, and I say yeah, that's what happens when you refuse to make any decisions about your life - you end up having other people make them for you.

Fantastic answer, @Dave1442397 .  Spot on. 

[Laura33]

I'm curious about how other people view the obligations/responsibilities of a child toward their parent, especially because DH's mom (and her husband) seem to have very different views on this than I (and DH, too!) do.

OK, to answer the direct question:  my mom is very very adamant that she will be removed from her home feet-first.  Her plan has been to save enough money to afford whatever kind of in-home care she needs, down to and including installing an elevator in the stairwell if needed, and we always planned to supplement that as needed (though it now looks like we won't need to). 

We were raised in the "you're responsible for yourself" approach.  Her aunt relied on her for years and always gave guilt trips about us being so far away (yet was, of course, entirely unwilling to move closer to us -- she seemed to expect my mom to uproot her entire family to move five states away to take care of her), and my mom was determined never ever to be that person.  DH and I were willing to jump in as needed largely because my mom does not pull that kind of bullshit; if she acted entitled to our sacrifice, that would be a much harder sell.

[FIRE Artist]

I have no direct experience with this because my parents would never. And I am not married so no inlaws, but, I have seen that this situation seems to be cropping up more and more in western cultures where this has not been the norm.

I would suggest that if she did not take on the burden, financial and otherwise, of taking in her parents, then there is no precedent or cause to expect it of her son. To expect otherwise is so selfish. It sounds like new husband is a big instigator of this, I would be inclined to call him out on this shit when he brings it up. He doesn’t get to rewrite history of this family he married into. I would also question why he isn’t leaving his spouse set up for life after him. Is he a drain on her finances today?  He may be treating her like a nurse with a purse, selling her the idea that it is ok to spend, spend, spend because her kids will bail her out.

I also don’t agree with parents expecting a child to subsidize a sibling indirectly through having to care for the parent who has no resources for retirement due to supporting an able bodied adult child. This happens a lot. I have heard of adult children who are in their own retirement, giving mom money, who just then passes it onto the other deadbeat child.

[MoseyingAlong]

......
Do your parents expect you to pitch in, including housing them and supporting them financially?  Are you on board with that, and if so, do you have a line you have drawn or will drawn?  (E.g., "we will send a small monthly stipend or offer to pay rent on a modest apartment, but that's it,"  Or "no living with us.")

And if you have kids, especially if you are older and they are well into adulthood, what do you expect of them?  What do you think is reasonable to ask or expect of them, should you need assistance of some kind? 


ETA: .... I posted because I'm curious about how other people view the obligations/responsibilities of a child toward their parent, especially because DH's mom (and her husband) seem to have very different views on this than I (and DH, too!) do.

My parents died a while ago, before I really had to grapple with this. I did choose to live within a couple hours of them planning on them getting older. Then they up and moved closer to my sibling, half a continent away. That really reduced any self-imposed guilt about trying to help.

I agree with prior posts that parents have an obligation to raise their children since they brought them into the world with no reciprocal obligation from the children to care for their parents later. Ideally the relationship would be such that the children want to help their parents but I don't think any parents should expect that.

Also what kind of example did they set? Did your MIL help her parents or in-laws or other elderly relatives? If not, why would she expect different treatment? To be clear, I'm not saying that children have any obligation to repeat their parent's behavior. Just that sometimes I'm amused by the hypocrisy of expecting better treatment than you gave others or demonstrated.

I also agree that people need to figure out for themselves what they are willing to do and to adjust that over time. I'm helping a couple elderly relatives. A few years ago I was doing too much, it was stressing me out and was unsustainable. I've cut back on the time and travel involved and am at peace with what I'm doing. Now when they express desire to see me more frequently, I let it roll off my back. I don't think they are trying to guilt trip me; I think they are just expressing how they feel. If I felt it was a guilt trip, I'd probably cut back even further. It really helps that I enjoy their company on a limited basis. I do not want to live with either of them.

I wonder if you and DH would feel any relief if you clearly communicated, maybe by written communication, that your MIL will not be living with you so she should not plan on it. Sounds like that blunt of communication is not the usual family dynamic but the discomfort of sending that message might relieve a lot of angst.

[TheFrenchCat]

Firstly, I absolutely do not want my daughter to have to shoulder that burden.  I'd rather work till I drop than put my care on her as an obligation.  And I think a lot of elder care shouldn't be shouldered by children, at least on their own.  I think if you live to a certain age, you're probably going to need some level of professional care, and it's unfair to push that solely onto your children.  And yes, we plan to pay for college; I don't see it as a trade.

As for my own parents and in-laws...it's more complicated, at least emotionally.  My In-laws, I could probably live with them easier that DH could, but they're set up pretty well, and we've been begging my FIL to retire for years.  And my parents are divorced, so I don't see how I could have either of them live with me and have it feel fair.  Add in that my brother is receiving a lot of economic outpatient care from my mom, and I can see that as a storm ready to break someday.  But I did grow up seeing daughters caring for their elderly mothers as a matter of course, so that's kind of my mental default, even if I don't think it's good or fair. 

[Cassie]

Your MIL sounds like a very uninvolved parent and hasn’t changed so I don’t see where you have any obligation to help her. I had wonderful parents that helped us when young and had kids. When they needed help I helped them. My dad died first and my mom’s budget became tight and she made it work. She would never take money from her children.

I am now 70 and have always helped friends. In my senior years I have helped friends through illness and death, rides and help managing medical care and downsized their junk. But all have been very good friends that deserved the assistance. One of them left me 20k and I was shocked.

I have 3 kids that I’m close to. Only one lives locally and I would never take money or live with them. However, if I ever need help managing my finances, rides to doctors, etc I would hope that he would help me and I’m sure he would. I wouldn’t help anyone like your MIl that only cares about herself.

[deborah]

I couldn’t live with my parents. They live(d) 7.5 hours drive away. About 23 years ago they came here for a couple of weeks and looked at houses. I did visit some houses with them, but didn’t show any enthusiasm for them moving here, and they stayed in the town where they lived. Dad was showing occasional signs of cognitive decline at that time but was usually completely normal. I felt that if they moved here, I’d be expected to be in constant contact with them, especially as they wouldn’t have any friends and would be in a new place where they didn’t know their way around. They were in their early seventies at the time.

About fifteen years ago, I retired and dad got cancer. As a result, I started visiting them more regularly, and it gradually increased to 26 times a year - I’d take a day to drive each way, and stay for a few days each time, so I was spending about half my life visiting them. This was pretty wearing. They really needed my assistance with a lot of stuff, and mum needed relief. During chemotherapy, dad wasn’t very good cognitively, and sometimes I went there, and mum disappeared for a few days so she could recharge. They didn’t have assistance. Dad stopped having cancer but he was still declining.

About eight years ago, they started to get assistance. I hadn’t realised that it was available, but in Australia there’s an amazing amount of assistance available for practically no cost. After three years on the waiting list, dad finally got the assistance he was entitled to just as COVID hit. This was excellent, since the lockdowns in Australia, particularly where they lived, went on for months and it was difficult for me to visit at all for extensive periods. Mum was eligible for assistance too, and hers came through before dad’s did, since she was eligible for a lower level of assistance which was more readily available. They needed me for a variety of things, and always asked when I would be there next, but also kept on saying I was being too good. It was still a bit of a guilt trip. Dad died during COVID.

Mum’s still alive at 94, living by herself in her house. She has assistance each day and has the highest level of government provided assistance. I visit once a month and a sibling has also recently started to visit monthly, although last year I had long COVID and wasn’t well enough to drive that distance, so she only had my sibling visiting. She’s very lonely. Her friends die regularly. It’s hard for people her age to maintain friendships, as they’re mostly on walkers, with poor eyesight and hearing. She never wants to be in a nursing home, and she gardens, so if she went into one, her main interest in life would disappear. She feels very vulnerable but also is fiercely independent. She’d like to move to be near me, but my sibling wouldn’t visit, and I’d be stuck visiting her every day because she wouldn’t know where things are, and with limited mobility, she’d become much less independent and much more vulnerable.

[Freedomin5]

Do your parents expect you to pitch in, including housing them and supporting them financially?  Are you on board with that, and if so, do you have a line you have drawn or will drawn?  (E.g., "we will send a small monthly stipend or offer to pay rent on a modest apartment, but that's it,"  Or "no living with us.")

And if you have kids, especially if you are older and they are well into adulthood, what do you expect of them?  What do you think is reasonable to ask or expect of them, should you need assistance of some kind? 

No, my parents never expected me or my siblings to pitch in, house them, or support them financially. Their take was that our generation has it harder than their generation (lower incomes, higher housing costs, etc.), so it would be unfair to add this additional burden on us. In addition, if we support them financially, we would have a say in the kind of care they receive (based on our ability to pay for the care), and my parents didn't like that idea. They wanted to choose the care they wanted. My parents have always had enough saved up to afford whatever retirement care they want.

My in-laws are a different story. MIL has a lot of money tied up in a big house. She wants BIL and DH to take care of the house, manage all the rentals, and then give her the money for her retirement care, because that's what family does to support one another. Since MIL refused to sell the house, against DH's recommendations, DH has removed himself from the situation. DH has refused to provide 24/7 care for his mom as well, as his recommendation was that she go to a retirement home where she can get proper round-the-clock care. MIL then mentioned wanting to pick a retirement home in our town. DH is discouraging that as well, because if that happens, he will be saddled with her care. She has no connections, no friends, no roots in our town. His siblings would not make the 3-hour drive to visit their mom or help with her care. DH's attitude is basically, "You can't help those who don't help themselves."

My kid is still young, but I would not expect anything from her. Maybe regular visits to the old folks home to say hi to us. I've told DH we want to make sure we stay as pleasant and nice as possible so our kid wants to visit us and spend time with us. Obviously, if we have an emergency, it would be great if they were willing to help out, but we understand they have their own lives to live.

[Poeirenta]

I am an only child and have very low contact with my mother, so I have no idea what she expects! She has made almost zero effort to have a relationship with me, and the few times I have seen her since I moved away after college have been rife with her usual put downs and "jokes" about me and my husband. I do sort of dread the day that something happens (she's 80) and I get a call from my uncle or a cousin (dad died 32 years ago and she is still single). I do not want to get involved in any way, especially since I live in another country now, but I'm sure her other family members will expect me to. I feel like by choosing to not support my unsupportive parent, I'll be swimming against a similar cultural current as the one that tells me I'm a terrible woman because I'm childfree. Honestly not sure what I'll do when push comes to shove, but living with me is 100% off the table, as is financial support.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[JupiterGreen]

+1 @AuspiciousEight it's highly personal since relationships vary. A lot of people say that part of the reason to have kids is so they will take care of you when you are old. I think this is wrong. Children do not consent to be born. But people choose to have them and they also have the option to give them up. Children on the other hand are owed basic care and a safe environment but not financial support once they become adults.

My heart is warmed by those beautiful parent child relationship where all of the people involved want to care for one another. But I have also seen the demanding abusive narcissistic or neglectful type parents who believes they are owed care by their children. Further, what kind of care are you providing? If the parent needs nursing care, memory care, or something else that a medical professional should be handling it probably doesn't make sense for the child to take that on.

So no, I don't think it should be assumed, but it's also highly personal.

[partgypsy]

Okits: "I've learned that people who feel they are in need can have surprising entitlement to others' time, energy, and resources.  For even formerly reasonable people, due to illness or the pressure of their circumstances, their wellbeing and wants are front of their mind and the cost to their family caregivers is not a consideration."

This is true! in my family there have been some not good family dynamics, which I escaped from by moving 500 miles away after college. So, I thought well since I am not part of that, I will not be dragged in. I guess it doesn't work that way. I would have been happy and overjoyed, to have my father move down either closer or with me, because he would be a net positive. He has since died. My mother never got over the divorce and had a codependent enabling relationship with oldest son, which, made her happy? taking care of him but at the same time financially ruined her. My sister now has a co-dependent relationship, which is different in that yes my mother financially helps her out, but sister also does things for her.
The problem is that both mom an sister live with my brother, for free. This has been going on for years. And not something he explicitly agreed to, just kind of happened. Brother doesn't get along with sister. He has given her a deadline to move out. This happened last year but both sis and mom kicked up such a fuss, brother backed down. He has now HAD it. Says Mom can stay, but sis needs to move out. She is not dealing with this well. Is decompensating. Says it's a package deal. Also says if she moves out we need to pay her $29 an hour for min 20 hours a week to stop by to help Mom (over 2K a month). I don't know what's going to happen because, sis refuses to or is not able to work more than very minimal hours (around 600/month). She says she is willing to take on 1 more shift a week (making 900/month) but if I suggest that's still not enough to live on she becomes angry and hostile. It is very emotional to me, because I do not want to see my sister homeless, but I cannot live with her.

[partgypsy]

And for those who say my sis is not a good person or lazy, it is more complicated. She has some conditions that impact her ability to function and hold down a FT job. But she doesn't accept the diagnosis and refuses to get treatment. It ends up impacting her and everyone around her.   

[Missy B]

Yeah, part of my long-term planning consideration is being available to help my parents and partner's parents, and potentially some of my other relatives as they age if that's a fit. We're in the same city, and my step-relatives were good to me as a kid and if there's things I can do that aren't costly that will help them stay in their homes longer or more safely, why wouldn't I (not talking about full time care, but errands and 'looking in' type of thing).

I had bought a place with a level that i thought could be converted into a suite (turns out, not really) for my mom if needed (she died, and I don't know if she would have been that keen to move in anyway) or my partner's mom (again, no interest). There was/is no expectation on anyone's part that they move in with us either.

Those relationships are good though.  If instead someone narcissistic and/or historically indifferent to me wanted something, I think that would be a hard pass.

Where my own situation is more complicated is with my partner's parents. They moved to be closer, which was good, but decided that their new forever home needed to be in isolation in a place with limited medical and no transit and which requires a ferry. They bought without any kind of conversation with us, so their assumptions about how often we'd be able to visit were badly off. They aren't healthy seniors, physically or emotionally, and they've deteriorated, his mom especially, since moving there.

 During his mother's last health crisis the social worker said directly that the area they were in did not have and was not going to get the services his mother needed and stepdad flatly refused to consider moving anywhere else, so that was that.
I think at some point there will likely be an ask from them that we move over there (buying or renting our own place as we won't be able to live with them) to 'help' them.

[Retire-Canada]

Do your parents expect you to pitch in, including housing them and supporting them financially?

No. My parents would have been embarrassed not to be able to deal with their own finances. They were never very well off, but they were debt adverse and while not super frugal they did live within their means. As they aged the amount they spent each year went down quite a bit.

My dad is dead so it's just my mom left and she's got enough money for a "normal" life. At 97 she's got a finite number of years to fund left.

[Villanelle]

As my grandfather aged and deteriorated, there was a time when my mom would drive to him one day out of every weekend to help around the house, shop, etc.  The drive was about 45 minutes each way.  If my parents lived closer, I'd be willing to do this (and/or to potentially pay for some services to either add to that or give me a day off every few weekends.  With them being so far away, practical help isn't very feasible.  Thankfully, their finances seem very, very solid so they can pay for services.  The question is more whether their egos and frugal nature will allow them to do so, than whether they will have the funds. 

As Retire-Canada said, my parents would be embarrassed to not be able to carry their own costs, especially without some major catastrophe leading to that need. 

I adore my parents and have a wonderful and close relationship with them.  But I'm also intensely private and introverted so having them--or either one of them individually--live with me would be a massive strain. I could see encouraging them to move to be near us so I could help out more (practically, not so much financially).  I'm intensely grateful that they have always made sound financial decisions and therefore should have many options as they continue to age. (Both are 80+.)  They can move, they can hire help, they can afford high-quality assistance or assited living, etc.  That means so much less pressure and burden for me, and it's another reason I'm grateful for my amazing parents. 

I should add that I lived with my grandma during her final months and we her caretaker and it was exhausting, even at a time when I had very few other demands in life.  I could not do that again.  She refused to move out of her home and initially only needed modest help, but by the end it was essentially 24/7 care.  That's too much to ask of anyone.  (Had she lived much longer, things would have changed.  The family was putting together a plan and researching options for in-home care, but that ended up not being needed.) 

MIL has been carrying BIL for about a decade. (He's worked maybe 18ish months during that time, across multiple jobs, but no paid employment for several years and as far as we can tell, he's not currently looking for work.)  Since he lives in her home and she has provided everything for him for so long, it makes sense that the least he could do is care for her as needs arise.  Unfortunately, their relationship is strained.  He's difficult and I'm sure she'd rather be with us than him.  But I sort of feel they have created the codependent cycle and they each need to live with that.  And there is no chance in hell we will support BIL or let him move here.  That might end up being a saving grace because I don't think MIL would leave her home, unless forced to, if it meant BIL wasn't provided for.  Of course, BIL's health is wrecked so who knows if he will be around to provide care if/when MIL needs it.

[Luke Warm]

I didn't plan on becoming a caregiver nor do I want to be one but here I am caring for my mom. Our house has an apartment in back that she stays in which is super convenient.

It started off with mt GF's mom moving into the apartment when she couldn't take care of herself. It was fine but I really wasn't into it and fortunately I didn't have to deal with her much. She was nice and all but we weren't buddies or anything and I'm kind of a loner. She and my GF always had a stressful relationship so there were times when there was lots of yelling but to my GF's credit she did a great job of taking care of her until she passed.

My mom got to the point where she was having trouble taking care of herself so she moved in with my sister. They have a good relationship if somewhat co-dependent. My sister was newly married and has a teenage son so the family dynamics were stressful for my mom. She lived there about a year before she and my sister decided she needed to move. So now she's with us. There wasn't much discussion about it. It was just something my GF and I felt we needed to do. My GF is great with my mom but I just try to keep her healthy and active. I keep her in daycare or she goes out with friends most of the week. I have her full time on the weekends which wears me out. Thankfully she's really pleasant and wants to be useful but she has Alzheimer's so she requires a lot of instruction.

Getting back to the topic, my mom said on numerous occasions that she didn't want to be a burden on my sister and me but she doesn't have the finances to go to a retirement community. My dad left some money when he died but they never discussed that with us so my mom either spent it or maybe there wasn't that much to begin with. My GF and I don't have any kids so we're mostly on our own when we get unable to take care of ourselves. My GF has tons of social capital so she will probably do ok. Me being a loner will come back to bite me at some point.

[Cranky]

Well, my parents are dead, so all bets are off. But I always was fine be with my parents living with or near us in their old age. They were financially stable so it wasn’t a money issue.

Obviously, living with my so -in-law didn’t work out, and has damaged our family relationships permanently.

My middle dd does live with us - she has a mild disability- and I’m fine with it.

In our case it wouldn’t be about having wasted all our money, but more about health issues.

[Sandi_k]

I set aside funds each month for years to help my mom eke out a living. She's used it to pay for various home repair projects, and to replace her 20 year old Buick.

DH and I are visiting frequently these days, as mom needs assistance with a lot of things. We have now hired two day attendants to split the week (4 days and 3 days), so mom is getting bathed regularly, and the attendant is doing laundry, and making sure mom takes meds and eats.

We are hoping that we can continue to do this and pay for it before needing to sell the house to pay for care. My siblings and I agreed we should use mom's small stash of cash for the assistance, and when it dips below a certain level, it's time to sell the house for a live-in care home.

My mom was a single mom, and did a lot for us as kids. We're pretty tight-knit. But none of the three kids feels that mom in our house makes much sense (kids, pets, stairs, etc).

[roomtempmayo]

The way I feel, it goes both ways. The households where the elder parent moves in are often pretty traditional and set up the oldest son financially usually, by helping them buy their first house, starting or handing down a business. Then when the parents are frail, the parents live with that son. Then there is the American way of, yes maybe or maybe not paying for college, but in general the parents having the kid fly solo, and both live separately. The problem is, when there is not reciprocacy; the older parent sets up the child and the child shirks parental duties. or the parent is not involved in the success of the child but then feels should be bailed out.

I agree.  It sounds a bit transactional, but I think a child's responsibility toward their parents is partly a product of what their parents did to raise them and get them started.  It seems clear to me that a child owes little or nothing to a biological parent who had no hand in raising them, but probably quite a lot to a great parent who gave them a good start in life and potentially contributes to raising their grandkids.  Most of us are somewhere in the messy middle of those two extremes.

For us, there are three operative priorities:

1) Do no harm to our family.  We both have people in our somewhat immediate family that would be hell to have in the house for 48 hours, much less indefinitely.  We are going to prioritize the welfare of our family over any real or imagined family obligations or relationships that would rip us apart.

2) Repay debts.  We're also both fortunate to have benefited greatly from some family members in the past, and some are involved in semi-regular care for our daughter now.  Some paid a big chunk toward college, or went above and beyond to come through for us in the past.  I think that creates something of a debt, and we'll do our best to repay it.

3) Do what we can for other family members, within the boundaries of doing no harm to our family.  We both have people in our families who have taken more than they've given, or just done the socially expected minimum.  They tend to turn up when they need help, but otherwise don't have much of a relationship.  We're not going to house or bankroll these folks in a regular way, but we'll help them now and then since they're still our family.

That's a long way of saying I don't think there's an infinite obligation to help someone simply because they're family, but there is some obligation to reciprocate past help, time, and money, especially when it goes beyond the socially expected minimum.

[GilesMM]

It would be best for all parties if your spouse made it clear sooner rather than later that his mother and her crew are NEVER moving in with you and should not expect ANY financial support in the future. This will help MIL and others plan alternatives. 

[Morning Glory]

And for those who say my sis is not a good person or lazy, it is more complicated. She has some conditions that impact her ability to function and hold down a FT job. But she doesn't accept the diagnosis and refuses to get treatment. It ends up impacting her and everyone around her.   

I have a SIL like that. We let her move in with us for a few months once (with three of her children) after an eviction and it wasn't pleasant for anyone but I also didn’t feel comfortable just letting her be homeless.  She is now stable in her job and housing but I feel badly for her adult daughter who can't move out because neither of them can afford rent on one income. I think the shortage of lower cost housing is only going to get worse in the next four years, putting more families in this situation.

[asauer]

Had a recent visit from my mother-in-law.  She lives across the country with her husband (who is older than her and not in fantastic health) and her adult son. (Addiction issues for many years, unemployed.)  She dropped several non-subtle hints about maybe living with us someday.  When we last saw her prior to this, her husband told a story about his sick sister, and it ended with a comment about how shameful it was that her children didn't do more when she had a medical procedure and needed help during recovery.  I got the sense this might also be a pointed hint.

MIL has never been rich, but she's had money she's chosen to spend in various non-mustachian ways.  (Large SF home, enabling BIL for years, paying for private school for BILs kids when they were still in his life, stayin gin HCOL area, letting new husband move into her home, non-practical cars, etc.)  So if she needs financial rescue, it is through her own choices.  I have a pretty serious problem with the idea that she thinks we are obligated to move her in here at some point. 

(I don't actively dislike the woman, but she has never made an effort to get to know me beyond polite formalities or be a part of our lives.  Any effort has been on our part.  She has repeatedly shown us we are not a priority or valued relationship.  I'd give examples, but they'd be easily identifiable and this is already pretty personal to post.  But the bottom line is, she has never pursued being a meaningful part of our lives and has shown us we aren't much a part of hers, especially if it requires effort on her part rather than ours.)

Do your parents expect you to pitch in, including housing them and supporting them financially?  Are you on board with that, and if so, do you have a line you have drawn or will drawn?  (E.g., "we will send a small monthly stipend or offer to pay rent on a modest apartment, but that's it,"  Or "no living with us.")

And if you have kids, especially if you are older and they are well into adulthood, what do you expect of them?  What do you think is reasonable to ask or expect of them, should you need assistance of some kind? 


ETA:  I'm not looking for marital advice.  DH and I have had many conversations about familial support--not just about his mom but also about his brother and my parents.  I didn't say DH and I haven't discussed it and I didn't imply we weren't on the same page. We are generally in agreement, at least while this is still theoretical, sincew we both admit--and have discussed--the fact that saying it is one thing and turning down guilt trips and sob stories from family will be much tougher in reality.  But we've talked many times and are in basic agreement, despite fome of you assuming otherwise. I posted because I'm curious about how other people view the obligations/responsibilities of a child toward their parent, especially because DH's mom (and her husband) seem to have very different views on this than I (and DH, too!) do.

You don't have the moral obligation to provide care (financial or otherwise) for any other adult.  That's the fact.  Anything you give is a choice, so you have to choose how to use your time, energy and money.  My MIL is in a subsistence situation for a number of reasons and has begged to live with us and put us on guilt trips etc.  But we decided we would never give her money.  We'll go and fix stuff in her home, we'll connect her with resources and make phone calls for her when she's overwhelmed but she'll never live with me and I will never give her money.

[Metalcat]

Had a recent visit from my mother-in-law.  She lives across the country with her husband (who is older than her and not in fantastic health) and her adult son. (Addiction issues for many years, unemployed.)  She dropped several non-subtle hints about maybe living with us someday.  When we last saw her prior to this, her husband told a story about his sick sister, and it ended with a comment about how shameful it was that her children didn't do more when she had a medical procedure and needed help during recovery.  I got the sense this might also be a pointed hint.

MIL has never been rich, but she's had money she's chosen to spend in various non-mustachian ways.  (Large SF home, enabling BIL for years, paying for private school for BILs kids when they were still in his life, stayin gin HCOL area, letting new husband move into her home, non-practical cars, etc.)  So if she needs financial rescue, it is through her own choices.  I have a pretty serious problem with the idea that she thinks we are obligated to move her in here at some point. 

(I don't actively dislike the woman, but she has never made an effort to get to know me beyond polite formalities or be a part of our lives.  Any effort has been on our part.  She has repeatedly shown us we are not a priority or valued relationship.  I'd give examples, but they'd be easily identifiable and this is already pretty personal to post.  But the bottom line is, she has never pursued being a meaningful part of our lives and has shown us we aren't much a part of hers, especially if it requires effort on her part rather than ours.)

Do your parents expect you to pitch in, including housing them and supporting them financially?  Are you on board with that, and if so, do you have a line you have drawn or will drawn?  (E.g., "we will send a small monthly stipend or offer to pay rent on a modest apartment, but that's it,"  Or "no living with us.")

And if you have kids, especially if you are older and they are well into adulthood, what do you expect of them?  What do you think is reasonable to ask or expect of them, should you need assistance of some kind? 


ETA:  I'm not looking for marital advice.  DH and I have had many conversations about familial support--not just about his mom but also about his brother and my parents.  I didn't say DH and I haven't discussed it and I didn't imply we weren't on the same page. We are generally in agreement, at least while this is still theoretical, sincew we both admit--and have discussed--the fact that saying it is one thing and turning down guilt trips and sob stories from family will be much tougher in reality.  But we've talked many times and are in basic agreement, despite fome of you assuming otherwise. I posted because I'm curious about how other people view the obligations/responsibilities of a child toward their parent, especially because DH's mom (and her husband) seem to have very different views on this than I (and DH, too!) do.

You don't have the moral obligation to provide care (financial or otherwise) for any other adult.  That's the fact.  Anything you give is a choice, so you have to choose how to use your time, energy and money.  My MIL is in a subsistence situation for a number of reasons and has begged to live with us and put us on guilt trips etc.  But we decided we would never give her money.  We'll go and fix stuff in her home, we'll connect her with resources and make phone calls for her when she's overwhelmed but she'll never live with me and I will never give her money.

I *used to* be committed to supporting my mom financially.

Then I tried to support her financially and she was a fucking entitled brat about it, and cost me mid 5 figures because she felt entitled to a lifestyle that put her in hundreds of thousands of credit card debt. Now she has no safety net with me. I'm out.

[tooqk4u22]

You don't have the moral obligation to provide care (financial or otherwise) for any other adult.  That's the fact.  Anything you give is a choice, so you have to choose how to use your time, energy and money.  My MIL is in a subsistence situation for a number of reasons and has begged to live with us and put us on guilt trips etc.  But we decided we would never give her money.  We'll go and fix stuff in her home, we'll connect her with resources and make phone calls for her when she's overwhelmed but she'll never live with me and I will never give her money.

I *used to* be committed to supporting my mom financially.

Then I tried to support her financially and she was a fucking entitled brat about it, and cost me mid 5 figures because she felt entitled to a lifestyle that put her in hundreds of thousands of credit card debt. Now she has no safety net with me. I'm out.

I have found, unsurprisingly, that when people have spent an entire lifetime being financially irresponsible they don't change even when they really have no alternative, and when they are offered a lifeline from someone they will quickly gravitate to expecting more and more and get mad if you even remotely restrict whatsoever. 

This really is a hard line for me, and maybe it makes me selfish or heartless, but I refuse to fund another persons past sins at the expense my present and future.  Unfortunately we have had too much experience on this front and the conclusion is people just need to be let to fall on their faces to have the "Come to Jesus Moment" and even that has not been enough most of the time.

Need some help fixing someting, a ride somewhere, help with paperwork....no problem!
Need to stay with us for a few weeks to recover from a surgery or whatever.....no problem!
Want to come over for dinner and we will provide/cover it all......no problem!

Paying for your free spending or covering your debts......not happening.

Best Scene ever for for this topic - from Rounders....in fact anybody who is struggling with this issue should watch the scene.


Full Scene
I play for money!

Short Clip
No, I give it to you, I'm wasting it!

[Metalcat]

You don't have the moral obligation to provide care (financial or otherwise) for any other adult.  That's the fact.  Anything you give is a choice, so you have to choose how to use your time, energy and money.  My MIL is in a subsistence situation for a number of reasons and has begged to live with us and put us on guilt trips etc.  But we decided we would never give her money.  We'll go and fix stuff in her home, we'll connect her with resources and make phone calls for her when she's overwhelmed but she'll never live with me and I will never give her money.

I *used to* be committed to supporting my mom financially.

Then I tried to support her financially and she was a fucking entitled brat about it, and cost me mid 5 figures because she felt entitled to a lifestyle that put her in hundreds of thousands of credit card debt. Now she has no safety net with me. I'm out.

I have found, unsurprisingly, that when people have spent an entire lifetime being financially irresponsible they don't change even when they really have no alternative, and when they are offered a lifeline from someone they will quickly gravitate to expecting more and more and get mad if you even remotely restrict whatsoever. 

This really is a hard line for me, and maybe it makes me selfish or heartless, but I refuse to fund another persons past sins at the expense my present and future.  Unfortunately we have had too much experience on this front and the conclusion is people just need to be let to fall on their faces to have the "Come to Jesus Moment" and even that has not been enough most of the time.

Need some help fixing someting, a ride somewhere, help with paperwork....no problem!
Need to stay with us for a few weeks to recover from a surgery or whatever.....no problem!
Want to come over for dinner and we will provide/cover it all......no problem!

Paying for your free spending or covering your debts......not happening.

Best Scene ever for for this topic - from Rounders....in fact anybody who is struggling with this issue should watch the scene.


Full Scene
I play for money!

Short Clip
No, I give it to you, I'm wasting it!

Exactly.

Story time for anyone who wants to be pissed off about entitled boomer parents:

The experience of trying to help my parents was so eye opening for me. A lifetime of "bad luck" narrative got seriously reframed when I got inside access to how they've handled their lives, and I realized that while many awful things had happened to them, their circumstances were largely just the product of raging entitlement and irresponsibility.

My mom was diagnosed with MS in her 40s and left the high income corporate world. She wanted to move back home to be close to old friends and family, and her husband moved with her, but they both underestimated how hard it would be for him to learn French and how necessary French was in that region to be employable.

In retrospect, this was entirely predictable, especially for my mom who worked in HR in that region. She knew exactly how unemployable he would be, and she knew exactly how difficult it was for the government employees she staffed in the area to learn professional level French. Her company literally trained staff. She knew she was setting him up for career failure, but she did it anyway and made zero plans to account for it.

He tried and failed various careers, they bought a store and had a massive falling out with their business partner, and then the store never did as well as they had hoped. And on and on.

It sounded like a story of struggle and managing adversity, and working really hard and getting ahead and then being pulled back under by huge waves of misfortune. They always owned a degree of spendy irresponsibility, but always framed it as not being any worse than anyone else.

It was a plausible narrative and my parents always worked so hard, it was believable...until I discovered how bad the debt was and tried to help them out of it.

They started out so incredibly grateful, but it quickly devolved into this petty, bitchy, spiteful, horrible triangulation process where each of them blamed the other for being the difficult one and gaslighting me to be compassionate and patient with the other parent who was struggling with admitting how hard all the change was.

Then it escalated to "you're just trying to stuff us in a condo and wait for us to die!!"

FTR, I was giving them *my* house, and DH and I were buying a smaller, cheaper condo and downsizing our life and letting them move into our lovely 1500sqft townhouse surrounded by mature trees. We weren't buying a little box to stuff them into. We were offering them a home, location, and lifestyle that had been good enough for us for years.

By the end, my mom would come to MY house, pout and scowl and complain about how shitty it was compared to hers, how nothing would ever be as nice as hers, how I just didn't care, how my lawn wasn't even big enough to have a proper garden. She would come into my home and shit all over it.

All the while she had a quarter million in credit card debt and no income. But I was the bad guy trying to ruin her life. Me. The person offering to downsize to a 1 bedroom apartment so that she could have a great, safe, affordable place to live, with waaaaay below market value rent for the rest of her life.

Suddenly all of their narrative around their misfortunes stopped making sense. Yes, some bad things happened to them, but bad things happen to a lot of people who don't end up in mortgage sized credit card debt. And these are people who made a lot of money over the years. How did every single money decision they made turn out poorly? How did they never prepare for any possible challenges?

How did they always lose money on the houses they bought? How did they always lose money on their businesses? How did they always seem to be hit with unexpected, massive tax bills?

I had spent most of my adult life as a student and just didn't understand much about personal finance. I had never made money, so I didn't have the ability to see a financial big picture. I was in the process of paying off my own mortgage sized debt at the time, so I wasn't super judgemental about what they were claiming was business debt that had gotten out of control.

But then I saw the insane entitlement and complete lack of accountability. I saw that they were willing to attack and fuck over their own child to defend their right to indulge themselves. After it all blew up and cost me 40K, which she had never acknowledged or apologized for, I basically didn't speak to her for a year.

Thankfully, she had a catastrophic brain bleed and lost a fifth of her brain a few years later. I say thankfully because she had a miraculous recovery and is basically fine, she's truly a living miracle. But she seems to have lost the part of her brain that made her such an entitled little shitface. By the time she went back home, it seemed like absolute common sense to her that they had to sell the huge house on the massive acreage.

It took severe, massive brain damage for her to become a much more reasonable, much less entitled person. It's actually pretty great.

But she's still not my problem. My little brother and SIL have a spare bedroom reserved for our parents now if they ever need it. I tapped out of that role and will never tap back in.

Not my circus, not my fucking monkeys.

[E.T.]

It definitely depends on the people involved. My parents were not good to me growing up, so we have not told my parents they can live with us. We've mostly rebuilt our relationships as adults with excellent boundaries on my end. I've provided one time gifts when they've been in danger of not making their bill payments but do not plan to provide major recurring financial support. They've both more than paid me and my spouse back in the form of college fund gifts / presents for our kiddo, so I'm not worried about this issue anymore.

All that being said, I come from a culture that highly values multi-generational living and I think we would house my parents if it seemed they can no longer be on their own. I don't feel good about living far away from family and wish they would all move closer to us. I would love it if my in-laws lived with us, but they moved several states away when we initially moved closer to them so I don't think that'll ever happen. Of course, they always tell us we should move to where they are now. Cue massive eye-roll.

We've prepared for the possibility by explicitly considering housing mobility limited relatives when we were house shopping. That's already come in handy when my sibling stayed with us for a couple of years. It's also made it very easy to house mobility limited guests when they visit. We have grandparents that are 90+ and it is a delight to be able to have them over.

As for kids, I plan to support them as long as they need it. I wouldn't enable addiction issues, but I do not mind providing a place to stay pretty much as long as they want.  Maybe that will change as they get older, but I was happy to help my adult sibling so I don't see why I'd be less happy to help my own child when they're an adult. I think I'd encourage them to spend at least some time living on their own, so they can discover their own likes / dislikes but wouldn't demand it.

Once we get older, it would be a joy to be able to help with grandchildren if we're blessed with any far in the future. I would never expect or demand that my kid let me live with them, but I would probably love it if they were willing.

[wenchsenior]

As someone who has been almost fully supporting one parent since 2009 (and helped her out notably before that on several occasions) and partly supporting another parent by cutting several thousand dollars of checks every year, the answer IMO is...

you do not have any default obligation to upend your own finances and life to support other adults ("put your safety mask on before helping others") who had a lifetime to be responsible for themselves and their own circumstances.

However, in practice, it's much messier. I advocate a 2 step process.

First you have to think about what you literally COULD do if your goal is helping them (without seriously compromising your own financial stability and physical and mental health). For some people, this answers the question... many people don't have much extra money, or work full time and therefore can't offer much in the way of time, or they live a long distance from the parent and can't be present physically, or whatever. This automatically puts some limits on what most people CAN do.

 Then you need to decide what, if any, support to offer based on your objective reality while figuring out what you can live with, emotionally and morally.

For me, while it has been an enormous financial burden to support one parent... and has come at a big cost in terms of making it impossible for us to fully meet our financial goals, we decided to do it b/c I simply couldn't bring myself to let someone that I loved and who (despite her serious flaws at being unable to responsibly manage her own financial life) had been a great parent.  I won't say I don't really resent this, but the alternative struck me as even worse, at least emotionally.

[Sugaree]

I live next door to my parents, and three houses down from my father-in-law.  I will provide as much help as I can, but no one is moving in with me and it will probably be more physical help than financial.  My brother is close enough to help with our parents, but my BIL is 800 miles away so it's kind of just me when it comes to FIL.  At this point, I'm just thankful that my parents finally made a damn appointment with an estate attorney so that I don't end up in a fight with my brother. 

[obstinate]

My parents do not expect us to pitch in monetarily or with housing, and are well-provisioned for the long haul.

That being said, taking care of your aging parents if needed is virtuous and should be the default expectation except when there are extreme circumstances. And when you're married, that includes taking care of your wife/husband's aging parents.

[iris lily]

All of our parents are dead, so we dealt with this issue in various degrees, but because we live far away from both sets of parents, we never had to do too much. Anyway, the best piece of advice I’ve ever heard about this issue is this:

Concentrate on taking care of your parents, the people themselves. If elderly parents insist on living in surroundings that they cannot maintain, that’s on them. Their big house needs cleaned? Not your problem. The yard needs mowed regularly? You don’t have to do that.can’t afford that new needed roof? Time yo sell.

Sure, it’s nice to keep senior citizens in their home, but those homes are often untenable. We often mix up “mom’s house” with “taking care of mom” and that can be the situation that exhausts  the caretaker beyond all measure.

[K_in_the_kitchen]

I don’t know what we will do.  Each of us has one remaining parent alive, both of those parents have moved away from our area.  My assumption is that my dad will be cared for by his wife if his health fails before hers, and/or by my sibling and niblings who live in that area.  My health is such that I am not able to be someone else’s caregiver, and the distance makes it impossible to even be the person who gives the caregiver a break.  At this point I think I’ll see my dad again if/when I receive a call that he is at the end and we should come.  While my dad isn’t well off, I don’t expect him to ask us for financial assistance.  If he were to ask, we would talk about it then.

If my dad had died before my mom, we would have taken her in if needed, and helped support her financially.  She always said she didn’t want to live with one of her kids though, and would prefer assisted living, so I think we probably would have helped her do that.  She didn’t live long enough to find out.

MIL and SIL live together, and SIL has stated her intention to be MIL’s caregiver when that is needed.  MIL has indicated that she doesn’t want this, but at this point we’re trying to figure out what she means.  Talking to her, I think she just doesn’t want to be in the position to need significant care, but she doesn’t have control over that.  She also knows that coming to us would be a physical burden on me.  MIL gets by fine on her retirement.  She is at the point now that her adult children are stepping in to talk about safety driving, having someone at doctor appointments, etc.

As for our own kids?  I don’t think we can set expectations.  Financially we should be fine, as we’ve worked toward that goal for decades now.  I think we have one kid who isn’t going to be the kind to check in and see if we need anything, and one kid who is that kind of person. Our oldest sees the next door neighbors (in their early 80s) aging in their home with one son who comes over everyday, and another son who spends about one month a year with them.  Their other kids visit as they can.  The son who comes daily used to come a couple of times a week, so their care needs have increased.  Across the street our elderly neighbors built an ADU for their son, who is able to help out as needed.  On the other side of us we have a neighbor in his 90s whose daughter and granddaughter live with him.  I suppose some of this is because we never moved out of our starter home and don’t live in the affluent area of town.  But having these examples has generated some conversations about the future.

I think the advice to take care of our parents as people is spot on!  We aren’t required to help them maintain lifestyles they can’t afford.  But we should help them figure out how to age with dignity and encourage them to take care of their health.  We can try to accept the relationships for what they are, working to improve them if we want, and letting go if that’s best.

[jeninco]

It's fun to read this right now: I'm getting on a plane tomorrow for one of my 3(ish) annual visits to see my aunt and look in on my mom. The aunt (84, but doesn't believe in "exercise for exercise's sake", or apparently for the sake of retaining health and mobility) will get bored of cooking for herself after a few months, so I, DH, or one of our now-about-adult kids will stop by every few months, cook for her for a week or so and generally check in. She's an awesome person, and has no kids of her own, so we're really delighted to get to help out. (Whomever is there in the summer also mows her 12-ish acres of fields, which is generally spread across a couple of days using a tractor and a 6-foot bush hog.) She's basically already announced that she'll be leaving her house feet-first, to which I not-super-tactfully pointed out that she's most likely going to fall down her stairs and get discovered three days later by her housekeeper. But it's her choice! I'm pretty sure she's not going to run out of money, but she wants to save as much as possible to pass on to me and my brother, even though we're strongly recommending that she spend more on herself!

I'll also stop by and visit my mom for a few days. She's 87, but much more active and engaged, although her hearing is going -- which has downstream cognitive effects. She's still giving tours at a museum where she's a docent, participating in several bookclubs, going to the gym a bunch of times/week, and all that jazz. She wants to go over her living will and end-of-life wishes while I'm there, and I'm totally there for that -- the more I know about what she wants, the better. She's also unlikely to run out of money, although having alienated a number of her near neighbors, she may run out of social capital. And I live 2000 miles away (and will definitely not be moving her here, or moving myself there!) so she may wind up choosing either assisted living or having in-home help. Her basement has already been converted into a separate apartment, so she's got options.

Haven't spoken to my dad in years, so hopefully his new wife and/or her kids will take care of him if necessary. Not my circus, NMM.