Author Topic: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.  (Read 46477 times)

J_Stache

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #100 on: November 01, 2016, 11:18:37 AM »
OP,
Pick one or two things a week to focus on (e.g.  this week, I'll change the cell phone plan...next week, I'll setup $200/week to go to savings automatically).  When you have a lot of things to do, paralysis can set in.  I know you said you get impatient when things don't happen immediately, but doing one thing a week (and taking a few months to get fully on track) is better than doing nothing.

Read through this thread and write down all the advice.  Then figure out what order to follow it in.  That's your task for this week.

marielle

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #101 on: November 01, 2016, 11:23:47 AM »
This can't be real. Almost $3000 for phone service? I literally spend $0/month for 6000 minutes, 6000 texts (which I never go through) and 6 gigs of data. I paid for the phone outright and the $38 signup fee but that's it. Haven't had a phone bill since January of this year. Before I was paying $30/month through Boost Mobile.

And OP obviously doesn't want to change at this point. At least not bad enough to pay off those ridiculous credit cards. 21%, wow.

lizzigee

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #102 on: November 01, 2016, 11:52:42 AM »
Have you started tracking your spending yet? If not, then spare us the excuses for what you've done in the past and why you NEED everything. Nothing will change unless you change yourself. Start tracking today or you lose any credibility as far as wanting to dig yourself out of your hole.

wenchsenior

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #103 on: November 01, 2016, 11:56:57 AM »
I'm not saying this to be snarky or judgemental, but...

if so much money is slipping through the cracks and is causing the OP such anxiety that he periodically makes resolutions to change, acknowledges the problem is mostly his own behavior, but then fails to do even the basic, easy parts of the change such as merely tracking every dollar out of the house, could there be a costly addiction or near-addiction at play here that he just doesn't want to truly acknowledge? Gambling? Shopping? Collecting? Online porn? Purchasing materials for a side gig that never quite develops into real income but temporarily makes him feel he's taking charge and making a big change?

This occurred to me because I used to have a much greater tendency to buy for the person I wished I were (clothes, books, hobby supplies, exercise videos, etc) than the person I actually was. The last notable lapse was about 3 years ago, when I decided we were in too much of a watch-tv-or-movies rut for our evening routine. I came up with playing board games as an alternative, and spent about 300$ on a half dozen cool games good for two people. 3 years later and we haven't even played most of them.  Now, this isn't to say we couldn't yet get use from the games, but what I should have done is buy one game and see if we liked it, played it to saturation, gifted/donated it, THEN bought a second game.

I'm wondering if the OP suffers from something like this, or possibly from an even more compulsive problem. Even spending issues that are not actual addictions end up leading to additional stress, because they are a kind of a self-deception: you want to be 'the person who does this thing', so you buy the stuff. Then you feel worse because 1) you essentially wasted money; 2) You added to your existing money stress; 3) now you have more shit in your house creating clutter or the need for care/upkeep = more stress; 4) you likely STILL didn't make progress on being that idealized self and you feel crappy about it.

There's a lot to be said for minimalism, I've found as I get older.

Cannot Wait!

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #104 on: November 01, 2016, 12:08:01 PM »
I think the MMM community might have missed the boat on this one.
OP doesn't feel respected at work.  His side business isn't raking in the cash as he planned.  He's dug himself a big hole.  Life is hard.  He feels it's hopeless.  This is what I'm getting from his posts.

FINate

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #105 on: November 01, 2016, 01:00:50 PM »
@taking fire

It's fascinating to observe your justifications here. Your spending, including the unaccounted for 11k, EXACTLY matches your take home income, so much so that a $50/month increase in health care premiums is in danger of sending you over the financial precipice. Do you really think this is some massive coincidence? What's even more AMAZING is that this is true of people all around us. It's obvious to EVERYONE on this thread that your spending is based on funds available, not needs. This is why the CC are so bad for you and should be removed ASAP. This is also why getting a raise or making more money in your job/side business will not solve your problem. Again, you have a spending problem that you continue to deny.

People on this forum have provided a great deal of wonderful advice and suggestions. These have been learned through hard lessons and personal experience. These are priceless pearls of wisdom. Everyone here knows what's going on with your spending because most of us have been there, and/or we still have family or friends who live this way.

When you ignore/explain away our pearls of wisdom, which also take time and effort to articulate, you may as well be shitting on them. So instead of continuing to have my priceless pearls shat upon, I will stop wasting my time on this thread and sincerely wish you the best. I hope you remember this thread and the great advice here when you're in even worse financial shape 6 months from now.

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #106 on: November 01, 2016, 01:40:09 PM »
Well, why don't you start tracking tomorrow - November 1.  First day of the month is a good time to get going.  Use paper & pen if you like.  It doesn't have to be complicated.   Just start!
pachnik, I do not know if he is going to follow your advice, but I am!  It's November 1.  I have not been tracking expenses for months, and not saving lately.  It is time to start TODAY.  Thanks for the encouragement.

Pen and paper - no cost.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 01:43:18 PM by Malum Prohibitum »

Livingthedream55

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #107 on: November 01, 2016, 01:42:11 PM »

Lanthiriel

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #108 on: November 01, 2016, 01:50:30 PM »
I know we don't like to send people to Dave Ramsey around here, but OP, you might want to go pick up Total Money Makeover from the library and start listening to his podcast. MMM isn't really money 101, but DR is.

I actually have and have read two of his books.

Then you're not using his system. Time to start an envelope system and put your credit cards in a bowl of ice in the freezer.

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #109 on: November 01, 2016, 03:58:03 PM »
Give your credit cards to your wife, if she's better with money.

Stash Engineer

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #110 on: November 01, 2016, 05:26:48 PM »
Dude, we support you!  I'm also impressed that you are still responding, which tells me that you CAN DO IT!

Here's a new actionable idea:  Post in this thread every day your expenses for the day.  Be brave!  They can be one-liners or whatever.  I'll even categorize them for you in a budget format in Google docs that you can take over later.  This would literally take less than 2 minutes per day before bed.

For example:
$4.58 Breakfast
$30.25 Gas
$11.06 Entertainment

Start today!

bestideaever

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #111 on: November 01, 2016, 05:51:13 PM »
OP, definitely follow the advice to write everything down that you are spending for a month. That doesn't require an immediate change in all your habits or major decision making, but it will be eye-opening. I say this from personal experience. Until August, I was blaming my high cost of living area (i.e. rent, dog care) on my money situation. Those were non-negotiables to me, and I took little ownership in the fact that I was living practically paycheck to paycheck.

Then I started tracking where my money went. Just doing so will already make you more mindful, as others have noted, because you don't want the numbers to look so bad. For me, I saw I was spending more than I could have ever guessed on shopping and dining out. Those are things entirely under my control, and problems that would follow me no matter where I live or how much I make. Your vices might be different, but you'll find that they add up even if there are just 20$ here, 20$ there... I was shocked about my own numbers. Once you have proof of where your total monthly spending vs. the money coming in lies, you can make informed decisions about what is most important to you, and how you'll fix your financial problem. This thread has listed many, many great first steps you can take.

As with many worthwhile problems, the solution here is simple, but not easy. Make the decision once, and avoid becoming bored/disenchanted/impatient by never wavering from that decision. Here's a little quote that describes this concept much better than I do:

"We know how to talk ourselves out of or into things better than anyone on the planet. When you sit down to do the thing you feel called to do, one of the main things you'll have to face is 'the discussion'. It's annoying and tricky and sly. It ruins more dreams than just about anything on this planet. But there is a way to beat it: The best way to crush the discussion is with a decision... Decide that every morning at 7 o'clock you will do 'x'. Then, on day four, when doubt creeps in, and the discussion fires up, say to yourself --- 'Ohhhhh, I wish you'd been around earlier. We already decided to 'x' at 7 a.m. I'd love to discuss this with you, but we've already made our decision. Thanks!' We all get a little addicted to the discussion, because it keeps us from being brave. We get comfortable with losing to the discussion. The goal is to make the decision once a month, and then once a year. Discussing whether or not to create something each day is exhausting. Decide once, and then just do it." - Jon Acuff

So: Decide now that you will get your finances in order, and do it, no matter what. You can start by deciding that you will track every single penny in and out, no matter what. November is your month to change!

taking fire

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #112 on: November 01, 2016, 07:01:08 PM »
I did start writing down expenses yesterday. I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but it added up to about $20. My wife spent $6 at Dairy queen. She met her mom for lunch which is not something that happens often. I spent another $14 at the grocery store on hotdog buns, popcorn, chips, and dip for our dinner. We had hotdogs at home from a previous grocery store trip but no buns. I got that stuff for a quick dinner after getting home late because of trick or treating.

I got mint working again today with a reset password. I can see most of my stuff but I am going to have to get a computer out and look closer and straighten out all the things that are not functioning - the accounts I mentioned.

My wife is doing numbers now. I am almost ashamed to admit that we are finding where our money goes. She totaled up all of our eating out expenses, which was a slap in the face to both of us. $370 for the month of October. This includes fast food, restaurants, gas station pit stops, etc.

She totaled up the two grocery stores we shop at and Walmart. That figure was $633. Some of the Walmart purchases are food, but it is mostly things we need like pet food and supplies, toiletries, occasional car maintenance things like oil, and household items like cleaning supplies.

I'll also add we have been making laundry detergent for about three years. I make it in five gallon batches and it usually lasts about three months. It breaks down to about $.11 a load. This was something we did because liquid laundry detergent is so expensive.

She added up fuel costs and they were a little over our $220 a month budgeted amount. It ended up $249.

So clearly we have an eating out problem. That's as obvious as it gets. Other areas need looking at too. I'm not trying to justify, but I will say much of the reason for us eating out so much is just not wanting to cook. After both of us work all day, it just gets old doing it every night as soon as we get home. I know that is not an excuse, but I'm sure plenty of people have been in that spot. Neither one of us realized how often we actually do eat out.

We are just going to have to cut this stuff out.

$182 was found in what could be categorized as fun, basically just activites with the kids and such. This was not a typical month because it included a local carnival and a few other once a year things.

The wife got her hair cut. This literally happens once a year. She said it was September of 2015 when it was last done. Just to add, I cut my hair at home.

So all in all, she found a total of $815.25 in spending that was "not accounted for". This is very close to the $900 a month figure that you all came up with based on my roughly $11k a year we couldn't find.

So there you have it.



pbnj

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #113 on: November 01, 2016, 07:29:07 PM »
Great job OP!!!  So proud of you for starting!  You will get more eye openers as you continue to track spending but that is how you can make positive changes.

Some ideas for dinners during the week: cook on the weekends and make a double batch.  Freeze the extra for a quick meal the next week.  Set up the Crock-Pot before you leave for work.  Eat some sandwiches or open a can of soup but try to go one month without eating out.  You and wife pack lunches snacks and drinks for work.

Get excited about this new challenge.  YOU CAN DO IT .  You have your MMM cheer leaders behind you.  Lots of intelligent people and great ideas on this board , you came to the right place for help but we can't do it for you.  So many people will be so happy you did this.

There are a lot of ways to have fun with the kids that are FREE.  Go fly a kite, go for a family hike or bike ride , go to the playground or get a museum pass from the library.  Get books from the library and read out loud.

Pay off the credit cards the get rid of the Kohl's card you don't need it.

I hope the move you made so far motivate and energize you.  Now you can tackle one item at a time.  Get rid of cable TV if you have it and for goodness sake get rid of the spendypants cell phone plans.

KEEP GOING Dude

aneel

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #114 on: November 01, 2016, 07:35:33 PM »
Nice report taking fire! It will be good for you to see how your expenses fall out now that you have mint working again?

okits

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #115 on: November 01, 2016, 07:42:02 PM »
Good on you, taking fire, for diving into the numbers!!

I confess, I love eating out.  I love take out.  But once we became parents restaurants just weren't worth it.  I started learning to cook more things.  Now it hurts to buy something at a restaurant that I could make (almost as well, if not as well) at home.  Groceries went up maybe 20% but eating out costs shrank by 3-4x that.  I got more proficient at cooking.  Still ate a lot of enjoyable meals.  But had hundreds of dollars extra every month to buy our family's FI.

Feel free to start a new thread asking for meal suggestions, either easy to assemble (like soup + grilled cheese), freezer-friendly, or fast and easy to cook (5 ingredients maximum, 20 minutes to make, etc.) I am sure there's lots of great suggestions out there, and lots of forum members happy to help you!

As pbnj said, KEEP GOING!  You've already taken a huge first step!

SandyBoxx

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #116 on: November 01, 2016, 07:46:26 PM »
I just breathed a huge sigh of relief after reading your last post. 

SO glad you have already started taking some small steps that will completely change your momentum.

In one month (week?) from now I think your update is going to have everyone - including yourselves- cheering.  Keep it up!

neophyte

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #117 on: November 01, 2016, 07:51:13 PM »
Disconnect your cards from Amazon and Ebay! Turning off any and all one-click shopping will force you to think about it longer and reconsider.

If you can't bring yourself to cut up the credit cards, fill a big tupperware halfway full of water and freeze it. put the cards in, fill the rest of the way and freeze again. They will be available in a true emergency but too difficult to get to for an "I want this now" emergency.

More random thoughts:

I don't like cash budgeting because I don't like tracking cash, but since you seem to have a problem with control, cash envelopes might work for you. Gas money envelope, grocery envelope, etc. If you run out of grocery money and you still have some month left over, that means it's time to get creative. Try to use up whatever you have in the house, even if it's not what you really, really want to eat.

If you don't have a crock pot, pick up a used one at a thrift store or craigslist. You can prep meals in freezer bags on the weekend and then just dump in the crockpot on your way out the door in the morning. Hot meal when you get home.

I have a feeling you have a lot more rare "well, it only happens a couple times a year" expenses than you realize. I know I do. In fact, I usually run into a couple of those every month.

Pick up the phone and cancel the life insurance on your kids already. Geez. 20 minutes of work, save $240 That's earning $720/hour! Tax free!

Pick up the phone and get some car insurance quotes. A little phone work and I bet you can save at least $20/month just by shopping around.

Call your internet provider "Hi I have a budget crisis and the way things are going, I might have to cancel my internet service if it stays this high. Is there any way you can find me a better rate?" You don't need to actually cancel, just threaten. 20 minutes of work, save $10 /month = $120 /year = earn $360 /hour tax free!





horsepoor

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #118 on: November 01, 2016, 08:28:09 PM »
This is awesome!

You could try doing a "No-Vember."  So no eating out, no entertainment, eat down anything you have stashed away at home, etc.  If you do that, the Kohl's card can be paid off this month for a quick win.  One month is not an interminable amount of time, and you might find that things you think you want to buy this month, you can't even remember once December rolls around.

With the eating out:  ditto the prepping on the weekends or making extra and freezing.  Also figure out some things to have for dinner that are literally quicker and easier than going out.  When we have nothing planned, some scrambled eggs and steamed broccoli or something like that can be whipped up in less time than it would take to load up in the car, drive somewhere, order, wait for food, eat and drive home.  Usually, going out to eat just seems like a colossal hassle any more.  Bonus:  gas savings.

Food:  if you're already making laundry detergent, look into other things you can make from scratch?  Don't buy pre-made salad dressings, marinades and so on.  Take a critical eye to each thing you normally buy, and ask if you could make it yourself.  I haven't tried, but other people here have made hamburger buns.  I've started making bread with a homemade sourdough starter and it's crazy cheap.  Check your grocery store's ad online before shopping and plan your meals around what's on sale each week.  Make a list before going and stick to it.


aceyou

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #119 on: November 01, 2016, 09:08:54 PM »
How about this for a small change...is your credit card in your wallet or at home in a safe? 

You mentioned that the ONLY reason you have the credit card is because it's the ONLY emergency fund you have.  If that's true, then fine.  Consider locking the credit card in your safe with all your other emergency financial documents/stuff.

That's a potential change that will cost you nothing, likely save you something, and allow you to maintain your emergency access to cash.

bebegirl

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #120 on: November 01, 2016, 09:36:28 PM »
Oh my goodness! It hurts even to read this, sorry!

I will repeat probably 101 time - please get rid of life insurance for kids and wife.

My bf and I have Tmobile unlimited with nice 4G coverage inside USA and pretty good 3G coverage abroad! Total about $120 per month for two people! Shop for better phone coverage.

You may want to talk to your wife to stop shopping at kohl's or elsewhere until you pay off all credit cards. Stop shopping and spending money on staff. Pay off debt first.

In order  to stop shopping you need to enter every single purchase into spreadsheet to control the situation.

My bf and I rent 1 bedroom apartment in Seattle for the same amount of money that you have your house.

Start spreadsheet and enter every single cent down there!

Good luck!


Villanelle

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #121 on: November 02, 2016, 01:39:36 AM »
Your side business could make money.  Your lottery ticket could win.  You own a horse that could be trained to run and might someday win races and bring in huge prize money.  Those things are meaningless.  Right now, your side business isn't making money, and there's no good reason to think that will change.  So what could happen in some imaginary future where all sorts of things have imaginarily changed is irrelevant.)  For now, it is an expensive hobby, tying up $9000 or more of your much-needed money.  Sorry, but you can't afford that hobby.

While making your laundry detergent is great and you should continue it, it probably saves you $200 a year.  (Admitedly made up number.)  It's laughable that you are focused on that when you are broke and hemorrhaging money. 

You've got some data now.  How about you and the wife decide you will do no more than $10 of eating out and "pit stops" per month for the next 3 months? How about you set a grocery budget of $300 and stick to it? 

Tracking is great, but you can't just look at it and wring your hands... and then keep doing it.  Use it to set limits for yourself.  Even after only 1 month, you can already make changes based on the data.

former player

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #122 on: November 02, 2016, 01:53:11 AM »
I did start writing down expenses yesterday. I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but it added up to about $20. My wife spent $6 at Dairy queen. She met her mom for lunch which is not something that happens often. I spent another $14 at the grocery store on hotdog buns, popcorn, chips, and dip for our dinner. We had hotdogs at home from a previous grocery store trip but no buns. I got that stuff for a quick dinner after getting home late because of trick or treating.

I got mint working again today with a reset password. I can see most of my stuff but I am going to have to get a computer out and look closer and straighten out all the things that are not functioning - the accounts I mentioned.

My wife is doing numbers now. I am almost ashamed to admit that we are finding where our money goes. She totaled up all of our eating out expenses, which was a slap in the face to both of us. $370 for the month of October. This includes fast food, restaurants, gas station pit stops, etc.

She totaled up the two grocery stores we shop at and Walmart. That figure was $633. Some of the Walmart purchases are food, but it is mostly things we need like pet food and supplies, toiletries, occasional car maintenance things like oil, and household items like cleaning supplies.

I'll also add we have been making laundry detergent for about three years. I make it in five gallon batches and it usually lasts about three months. It breaks down to about $.11 a load. This was something we did because liquid laundry detergent is so expensive.

She added up fuel costs and they were a little over our $220 a month budgeted amount. It ended up $249.

So clearly we have an eating out problem. That's as obvious as it gets. Other areas need looking at too. I'm not trying to justify, but I will say much of the reason for us eating out so much is just not wanting to cook. After both of us work all day, it just gets old doing it every night as soon as we get home. I know that is not an excuse, but I'm sure plenty of people have been in that spot. Neither one of us realized how often we actually do eat out.

We are just going to have to cut this stuff out.

$182 was found in what could be categorized as fun, basically just activites with the kids and such. This was not a typical month because it included a local carnival and a few other once a year things.

The wife got her hair cut. This literally happens once a year. She said it was September of 2015 when it was last done. Just to add, I cut my hair at home.

So all in all, she found a total of $815.25 in spending that was "not accounted for". This is very close to the $900 a month figure that you all came up with based on my roughly $11k a year we couldn't find.

So there you have it.
Love this update: congratulations.

Also, thank you for taking all the facepunches that have been handed out to you and still coming back here and posting.  That takes guts (a lot of people get the facepunches and are never seen again).  So I have faith that you can do this thing, and that you will be making your life immeasurably happier for it.  Carry on!

Cranky

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #123 on: November 02, 2016, 05:10:07 AM »


While making your laundry detergent is great and you should continue it, it probably saves you $200 a year.  (Admitedly made up number.)  It's laughable that you are focused on that when you are broke and hemorrhaging money. 



How much are people spending on detergent? I buy that Charlie's Soap detergent in a giant bucket. It's like $160/bucket, but it lasts me close to 3 years, and I fully admit that I'm addicted to doing laundry.

Cleaning stuff is dish detergent, dishwasher detergent, vinegar, baking soda, bleach. I have a couple of bottles of window cleaner that I got free after coupon.

I figure I spend about $10-$15/month on "cleaning supplies".

kendallf

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #124 on: November 02, 2016, 06:55:04 AM »
Love this update: congratulations.

Also, thank you for taking all the facepunches that have been handed out to you and still coming back here and posting.  That takes guts (a lot of people get the facepunches and are never seen again).  So I have faith that you can do this thing, and that you will be making your life immeasurably happier for it.  Carry on!

+1.  When you chose your username, I doubt you meant it in the sense of "Cover, cover!  We're taking fire!" but that's kinda what you're getting.  :-)  It's all good though, when everyone around you thinks your situation is normal, sometimes you need a shock to realize it sucks and needs to change. 

I don't journal on here but I believe it's very useful for many people who need some feedback (or are just entertained by it).  You might consider starting one, you will probably get lots of positive reinforcement.

Gimesalot

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #125 on: November 02, 2016, 07:28:04 AM »
Great Job Takingfire! You are on the path to improving your life. 

Since you mention that eating out is a vice and that you do it because cooking is too difficult after work, you should look into freezer/crock-pot cooking.  Here are some websites with FREE recipes and shopping lists for a month's worth of meals:

http://whoneedsacape.com/2012/11/crockpot-freezer-cooking/
http://whoneedsacape.com/2014/06/30-summer-freezer-meals/
http://www.thirtyhandmadedays.com/31-crockpot-freezer-meals-for-busy-weeknights/

Basically you spend about 4 hours in one weekend preping all of your meals for the next month and popping them into the freezer.  Then each day, before you go to work, you take the bag out of the freezer and put it in the fridge to thaw, and you take the thawed bag from the fridge and dump into the crock-pot.  When you get home, your meals are done and ready to eat.

wenchsenior

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #126 on: November 02, 2016, 08:16:44 AM »
Nice going, OP!!!

Yes, eating out is a challenge for us, as well. I say "us" but it really is my husband, because we stopped eating out as a couple regularly after a debt crunch several years ago.  My husband's bill alone runs around 300$/mo for buying lunch every day at work (and sometimes breakfast, also).

First I mentioned this to him frequently, and he would occasionally take a box of instant oatmeal and nuts to work, or make a pb&j for breakfast, but he would NEVER make lunch or take leftovers.  Eventually, he just started not eating during the day, which resulted in him being intensely crabby, or 'bonking' while trying to work out, or coming home ravenous and instantly eating a bunch of crap.  Finally, I realized if I wanted him to take lunch, I was going to have to suck it up and cook extra/do the prep. I felt resentful and put it off for a while, but eventually I set up a system to do it about half the days of the week. Now he's eating healthier and the bill has fallen by about 100$/month, and we're ok with that.

If only just identifying these things would fix them, but alas!  Trust me, many of us have been where you are.  Keep plugging away!

Slee_stack

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #127 on: November 02, 2016, 08:18:38 AM »
Nice to see some action by the OP.

Look into Instantpot for meal ideas too.  Modern pressure cooking can save some time in the evenings.

DW and I eat out or get take out on occasion, but we are very careful about it.  Generally we either use a coupon/promo or go to places we like, but aren't overpriced (ie fancy/trendy).

For us, that translates to a max of $15 per each of us, tax and tip included. We also limit ourselves to once/week, but that cost is already in the budget and we already have a very comfortable amount of cash savings.   

The point is, define a line in the sand for the times you will allow yourself the luxury and a cost per head and stick to it.

We almost never utilize a convenience store, but on the even rarer occasion I do, its always with a mindset to minimize my waste of money.

I don't just grab a bottle of gatorade or muscle milk or whatever that is going to cost me $2.  I might get a fountain pour for a buck.  Its still a waste, but LESS of a waste.

The best decision is to stock your car with water and snacks (granola bars, raisins, almonds...) for when someone inevitably needs something.  Just doing that might help you or your wife avoid spending $5 - $10 per 'quick stop'.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 08:26:41 AM by Slee_stack »

hoping2retire35

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #128 on: November 02, 2016, 08:48:42 AM »
TF,
You are discouraged, I have been there. Tell yourself you can do better, because you can. you need to cut fat fast. go for the low hanging fruit first. as you see the results it will motivate you to do more.

Also, don't forget to try excel for budget/money tracking. All you really need to know is '=sum(n3:n13)' whatever if you know what that is you can use excel to track you budget. Go through your credit card statements, input everything. look where the money is going. Before I told you to live simply and not spend or worry and frugality will come naturally, but that doesn't seem to be working.

September and October were rough for us. several big items broke and other maintenance had to be done. some small trips added a little and we had to slowly restock the freezer which made some short term higher than usual spending. Basically doubled our normal, when frugally done, monthly spending. Gross. Don't like to think about it. Bad things happen, sometimes months in a row.

Your are just going to have to get on the computer and see where to money is going. everyone here can tell you what to do, but you still have to do it. Tonight is the night, Do it!

Edit; missed your update. Awesome! Use the momentum while you have it! The enemy is down, push ahead!
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 08:56:59 AM by hoping2retire35 »

dignam

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #129 on: November 02, 2016, 09:12:43 AM »
OMG, that cell phone bill!  I can't...even...

Good work making changes though.  EVERY little bit helps; keep it up.

Bee21

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #130 on: November 02, 2016, 01:44:54 PM »
Great job! Glad that your wife is on board, it sounds like she is actively trying to improve the situation.

IT is actually good that it turns out you are the spender. You can fix it with a bit of help from the wife and a lot of determination. It would be much harder if it was the wife with the spending problem. Now, it is your responsibility to fix this.

Eating out is a huge drain. There was a year when my husband spent 5k on work lunches and breakfast. It took him a while to change this habit, but the annual number was an eye opener. These days he is disappointed if there is nothing he can take. It turns out that i cook better than his favourite fast food joints after all.

As for the food, ask your wife to plan the menus ( incl snacks, lunches).  Cooking large batches and utilising leftovers is a great money and time saver. Have a list of 5-10 dollar meals. Cut the snacks or make your own. Don't buy chips and dips for dinner, beans on toast is cheaper and healthier. And don't go to the shop  if you need only bread, cos nobody comes out without buying 5-6 extra things and suddenly, the cheap dinner becomes an expensive one.

Ask your wife to help you get some quotes for insurance and the phone.  Get rid of that phone plan!. Do you realise that you are spending almost 8 dollars a day on the phone but the kid can't afford the gym?  And check your electricity, we have ac and pool and spend less than that, something is not right.

You will benefit from having a personal mad money, to spend on random crap and be very disciplined with the rest. Have a clothes and entertainment budget as well. And stay away from ebay and amazon. Tell us about that secret side business when you are ready, i am sure people will have some ideas about it. But don't pour any more money and time into it if it not profitable.

Good luck. Keep the momentum and you will be fine. Don't be too hard on yourself. Forgive yourself and move forward and with some discipline and planning you will be able to provide a great life for your family.

taking fire

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #131 on: November 02, 2016, 03:10:26 PM »
I wanted to add that we also decided to go with a high deductible health insurance plan with a HSA. It ended up being a little bit more expensive than what I am paying now. What I did was take the amount we would have started paying on 1/1 - had we kept our same plan, and took the difference from that number and what we will be paying on 1/1 with the new high deductible plan. In all, we will put in about $230 a month with the company match into the HSA.

This will definitely help us because now we pay all the premiums and there is no savings account of any type or money anywhere for copays or other costs. Copays are already a surprise to us, and the 20% we now owe is just piling on. With a HSA, at least maybe we can start to pay for this stuff up front vs the bills we have now. The plan does cover annual checkups, so we won't have to pay for those. My medicine costs about $7 a momth as it is - with insurance. Total costs without insurance is $15.

If we can let the account build up a few months we should be okay. The HSA also rolls over from year to year and can be invested once it hits a certain amount.

RyanCypress

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #132 on: November 02, 2016, 03:29:04 PM »
This can't be real. Almost $3000 for phone service? I literally spend $0/month for 6000 minutes, 6000 texts (which I never go through) and 6 gigs of data. I paid for the phone outright and the $38 signup fee but that's it. Haven't had a phone bill since January of this year. Before I was paying $30/month through Boost Mobile.

I love RingPlus!  I'm on my 3rd month - We pay $4/mo for 2 lines set up like yours and 1 line with unlimited talk and text (no data).  I will never go back to the days of $100+ phone bills!

Tyson

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #133 on: November 02, 2016, 03:56:23 PM »
If you are like I was, there's probably some anger and a bit of feeling helpless of "dammit, we make decent $$ as a family, why can't we live like freaking normal people and not get into this financial mess?"

So we would live on less for a while, but then I'd resent having to live on less and we'd have occasional splurge spending to 'treat ourselves' and let us feel 'normal'.

What I eventually realized what that this was f!cking over my family's future.  Once I realized this I was finally able to start making serious and needed changes to our lifestyle that let us start saving.

Now, every time I'm tempted to buy something outside of the budget, I think to myself "Is this worth screwing over my family's future?"  And I find it works very well with regard to requests from my wife and daughter - am I willing to sign off on them screwing over their future selves by indulging in stuff in the present. 

That said - DO MINT.  It's painful but absolutely necessary to start closely tracking your expenses.  You will not make any real progress without this piece.

[Edit] I missed your last update - congrats on taking those first steps, you are on your way man!  Very few things in life feel better than taking back control in a situation where you used to feel helpless.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 05:11:04 PM by tyort1 »

Digital Dogma

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #134 on: November 02, 2016, 04:45:32 PM »

So clearly we have an eating out problem. That's as obvious as it gets. Other areas need looking at too. I'm not trying to justify, but I will say much of the reason for us eating out so much is just not wanting to cook. After both of us work all day, it just gets old doing it every night as soon as we get home. I know that is not an excuse, but I'm sure plenty of people have been in that spot.
You THINK you have an eating out problem, what I see is a problem planning meals. You had hot dogs at home for a quick easy meal, thats not a bad idea, however its not a complete meal. There are plenty of meals you can keep on hand that are both cheap, tasty, and easy to re-heat when you cook them in large batches and freeze portions for meals later.
I have a number of frozen large-batch meals I make, from meatballs and red sauce to soups and chillis, if I've got a bag of rice and a box of pasta its a complete meal without having to stop at the store for bread/milk/eggs etc. Likewise, breakfast for dinner is an easy way out in a pinch, and often takes less time than traveling to a restaurant/fast food place to prepare.

You don't have to cook for yourself 7 days a week to eat home cooked meals all week long and save money. You just need to make batches large enough to last all week.

I don't like to cook after work either.

Omalley

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #135 on: November 02, 2016, 07:49:28 PM »
OP - glad to see you are taking the first of many steps to a better future.  I have tracked my daily spending for 30+ years since my first job at 14.  I started with a spiral notebook, and have been using Quicken type software for the last 20 year years.  As others have stated, the act of writing down your daily spending forces you to see how so many choices each day have a long-term impact on your financial stability.  DW and I have accumulated significant savings, but I still face daily temptation to spend at convenience store stops and vending machines at work.  What keeps me from giving into the junk food spending is knowing how awful I will feel when entering the spending later that night.

I often play mental math with myself to curb impulsive spending by calculating how much that money would be worth in 8, 16, 24, 32 years.  With conservative earnings that saved money could double every 8 years, so $5 invested today and not spent on junk food will be worth $10, $20, $40, $80 dollars in the future. 

When I first found MMM, I realized that we were wasting money in many small ways.  Make a real effort to change one aspect a week about your life.  For example, week 1 - change thermostat setting, plan crockpot meals and take leftovers to work, lower water heater temperature, install low-flow shower head, goal for no gas station food for the next day, then week, then month.  If you try to adjust your whole life on one day it will feel too overwhelming.  Just start with one change per week then keep building on those changes.

BeautifulDay

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #136 on: November 02, 2016, 08:40:25 PM »
Congrats on taking the first step in tracking your spending.  It's all up from here.  It'll take time, but you can get there.  I like Omalley's advice to take it one thing at a time and keep building. Start with something you know you can do and keep on building. 

Following so I can watch your success.

golfreak12

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #137 on: November 02, 2016, 10:33:09 PM »
I don't care what step the OP took but I can't take him seriously until he does something with that cell phone bill.
~$240 a month for 2 people is completely absurd. Stop justifying that you need 30gb especially when you have internet at home.
I can easily find high data plans for 2 people at about half of what the OP is paying.

taking fire

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #138 on: November 03, 2016, 06:47:39 AM »
I'm going to look at phones. I need a chance to sit down and really look over plans. Someone here suggested T mobile. We are in an area where Verizon is the only service that truly offers any reception. T-Mobile does not. I have never looked at any of the cheaper phone providers. I would like to keep the phone I have. I have not bought new cell phones in years. My wife and I both have been out of contract for at least two or three years if I remember right.

We do not carry insurance on our phones and when something happens we just buy used ones. I paid around $130 or so for the model I have now, and that was a year ago. It is a Droid RAZR HD maxx. My wife has the regular RAZR HD.

If we did pick up a new provider, I'd like to be able to use these same phones, just put a new SIM card in or however that works.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 06:50:18 AM by taking fire »

crispy

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #139 on: November 03, 2016, 07:00:46 AM »
To help with grocery bills, meal planning is helpful and it doesn't have to be stressful. It also saves on my grocery bill because I am not buying a lot of random stuff. I personally don't batch cook because I don't have the freezer space for it.

For example, on Saturdays in the winter and fall, I always make a big pot of soup or chili.  This feed my family for two meals and then have leftovers for at least a couple of lunches.  We do a couple of really easy meals one or two nights a week when are really busy - breakfast for dinner (eggs, turkey sausage, fruit, toast), crockpot meals like salsa chicken (literally chicken breasts and salsa), dinner salads like bagged salad greens, fresh vegetables and a protein like chicken or ground beef (for taco or hamburger salads), or sandwich nights (make your own sub, meatball subs, sloppy joes) served with sides of fruist and veggies.  All of these things can be done in 30 minutes or less.

I also do buy some convenience foods for nights when we just need to eat.  Having a frozen pizza, a bag of meatballs, and some minute rice on hand is not necessarily a bad thing.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #140 on: November 03, 2016, 07:19:22 AM »
Great start.

$1000/month between grocery shopping and eating out is a lil crazy, but now that you identified your low hanging fruit it's time to do something about it.

For reference my SO and I both work 50 hrs/week and we cook 6-7 days a week. Our grocery bill is ~$200/month and we spend another $100/month on eating out.

Start cooking in bigger batches and freezing/refrigerating leftovers.

The $14 you spent on hotdog compliments could have cooked 2 family dinners.

Chicken is $1.99/lb for skinless/boneless breast. Potatoes are 5lbs for $1-2. Pasta is $1 per 8 serving box.

There are so many possibilities once you learn how to cook some basic recipes. Not only will your wallet thank you but your health as well. 

pxpaulx

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #141 on: November 03, 2016, 07:23:40 AM »
I find is crazy that anyone would pay more than $30 to $40 for a cell phone plan. If you actively seek out Wi-Fi which is free almost everywhere you'd actually stop and use your cell phone (mall, department store, restaurants, etc), and stop watching videos and streaming music (download at home if you can't live without...), less than a gigabyte is a piece of cake. My wife has zero issues getting by on the free freedompop plan, and I use google project fi so we have a phone when travelling internationally. We have spent $380 on phones since last April and about $28 bucks a month on service...and if you asked my wife, it is still too much! With the cost of phones, that ends up at forty nine bucks a month. I guarantee there is a Verizon mvno provider that would cost you a quarter if you reasonably reigned in that crazy usage, and you could probably bring your phones too.

Gimesalot

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #142 on: November 03, 2016, 07:31:33 AM »
I'm going to look at phones. I need a chance to sit down and really look over plans. Someone here suggested T mobile. We are in an area where Verizon is the only service that truly offers any reception. T-Mobile does not. I have never looked at any of the cheaper phone providers. I would like to keep the phone I have. I have not bought new cell phones in years. My wife and I both have been out of contract for at least two or three years if I remember right.

We do not carry insurance on our phones and when something happens we just buy used ones. I paid around $130 or so for the model I have now, and that was a year ago. It is a Droid RAZR HD maxx. My wife has the regular RAZR HD.

If we did pick up a new provider, I'd like to be able to use these same phones, just put a new SIM card in or however that works.

Look at this page here for Verizon network MVNO's:
https://bestmvno.com/verizon-mvnos/

Quickly looking, Total wireless seems to be a good option with 5gb of data and bring your own device for only $33.25/month  on auto-pay.  That works out to $800 a year for both you and your wife.  Switching to this plan will save you $2080 a year.  You could have that Kohl's credit card paid off in just 3 months with the savings.

Cycling Stache

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #143 on: November 03, 2016, 07:39:02 AM »
I'm going to look at phones. I need a chance to sit down and really look over plans. Someone here suggested T mobile. We are in an area where Verizon is the only service that truly offers any reception. T-Mobile does not. I have never looked at any of the cheaper phone providers. I would like to keep the phone I have. I have not bought new cell phones in years. My wife and I both have been out of contract for at least two or three years if I remember right.

Seriously, man, this is a perfect example of misguided resistance.  How many posts have there been so far that your cell phone bill is INSANE?  You fell into a trap that I did before, which is believing that by not updating and staying out of contract, you're ahead.  You're not.  Due to competition, cell phone plan prices have plummeted.  You can call Verizon TODAY and ask them to give you a new plan without getting a new phone or new 2-year contract, and they will probably cut your bill in half (because you're on an outdated, way-more-expensive plan).  Then tomorrow you can commit to further change and realize that buying new/used phones (or maybe even using your own) and getting one of the non-legacy carrier plans will probably cut your bill in half yet again.  There's a guide by I.P. Dailey somewhere that walks through plans that will work perfectly for you.

When 20 people tell you something is crazy, it's probably crazy.  You are not a unique little butterfly with unique needs; you're just someone grossly overpaying for cell service. 

Once you start making these changes, you will see how easy it is and how much ridiculous low-lying fruit there is in your current spending.  And then you'll move in for the win.

Car Jack

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #144 on: November 03, 2016, 07:47:35 AM »
Annual expenses are as follows:

House - $15,132
House's second mortgage $840
My wife's life insurance - $376
Both of my children's life insurance - $240  Are you kidding me?  You should only have life insurance on your kids if they're models or actors supporting you.  Drop this right now, immediately!
Power - $3,000
Personal loan at the bank - $2,880
My life insurance - $540
Wife's Kohls Shopping card -$360 (this is $25 minimum monthly payments)- we pay $30 Cut up this card.  Pay it off.
Cable Internet - $468 
Water - $540
My cell phone and my wife's - $2,880 (See notes in previous thread on phones) This is just silly.  Over $200 a month for phones?  We have 3 smart and 1 dumb phone through Cricket (uses AT&T network) for $115 a month.  This is an instant monthly saver
Car insurance through Allstate. - $1,608
Trash disposal service - $192
My credit card - $1,572 (making minimum payments - $131 a month) Cut it up, pay cash
Groceries - $4,800 (we actually spend a little less now because we don't always have the roughly $92 a week to spend.
Fuel - $2,640  Is there any way to trade that truck on an old Fiesta or some other reasonable car?
Daycare - $5200
My Medicine - $100 (I'm on Rx acid reflux meds)

TheDuder

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #145 on: November 03, 2016, 08:12:01 AM »
I can also explain more about how I used 30GB of data in a month. I know that seems far fetched but there is a good reason.

Alright, I'll bite. What is the reason one *needs* to continually use 30GB of data in a month?

JLee

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #146 on: November 03, 2016, 09:01:47 AM »
I'm going to look at phones. I need a chance to sit down and really look over plans. Someone here suggested T mobile. We are in an area where Verizon is the only service that truly offers any reception. T-Mobile does not. I have never looked at any of the cheaper phone providers. I would like to keep the phone I have. I have not bought new cell phones in years. My wife and I both have been out of contract for at least two or three years if I remember right.

We do not carry insurance on our phones and when something happens we just buy used ones. I paid around $130 or so for the model I have now, and that was a year ago. It is a Droid RAZR HD maxx. My wife has the regular RAZR HD.

If we did pick up a new provider, I'd like to be able to use these same phones, just put a new SIM card in or however that works.

When's the last time you checked T-Mobile coverage? They have expanded a lot over the last couple of years.

alewpanda

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #147 on: November 03, 2016, 09:46:57 AM »
I'm going to look at phones. I need a chance to sit down and really look over plans. Someone here suggested T mobile. We are in an area where Verizon is the only service that truly offers any reception. T-Mobile does not. I have never looked at any of the cheaper phone providers. I would like to keep the phone I have. I have not bought new cell phones in years. My wife and I both have been out of contract for at least two or three years if I remember right.

We do not carry insurance on our phones and when something happens we just buy used ones. I paid around $130 or so for the model I have now, and that was a year ago. It is a Droid RAZR HD maxx. My wife has the regular RAZR HD.

If we did pick up a new provider, I'd like to be able to use these same phones, just put a new SIM card in or however that works.


Page Plus is a month to month provider that piggy backs off of verizons network.  You should look into them and see if you can't unlock your phones to work on their network.  I use them and pay 32.00 a month.  You can upgrade and get more data for 50.00.  i've never had any issues and we live in an area that is difficult to get great phone coverage from ANY provider :)  Hopefully this info helps!

NESailor

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #148 on: November 03, 2016, 10:40:28 AM »
Great start.

$1000/month between grocery shopping and eating out is a lil crazy, but now that you identified your low hanging fruit it's time to do something about it.

For reference my SO and I both work 50 hrs/week and we cook 6-7 days a week. Our grocery bill is ~$200/month and we spend another $100/month on eating out.

Start cooking in bigger batches and freezing/refrigerating leftovers.

The $14 you spent on hotdog compliments could have cooked 2 family dinners.

Chicken is $1.99/lb for skinless/boneless breast. Potatoes are 5lbs for $1-2. Pasta is $1 per 8 serving box.

There are so many possibilities once you learn how to cook some basic recipes. Not only will your wallet thank you but your health as well.

funny that's what I picked up on too!  We spend spend about double what you do but there are 4 of us and it includes over $100 in starbucks (nuts right?  it's my DW and not negotiable at the moment).

Anyway.  This week is a good example of superthrifty meals - Sunday night I roasted a whole chicken that we bought for $8 or so (it was 1.49/lbs or less, don't recall).  Roasted some potatoes and sweet potatoes with it.  I buy regular potatoes in 50lbs bags from a nearby farm for $16.  The sweet potatoes were a bonus, not sure what it cost but let's say the whole evening cost $15.

Monday I took all the meat we didn't eat (at least half the bird since our 2 kids are pretty small still) and made chicken salad.  So I added maybe a few bucks worth of bread, walnuts, mayo, and grapes.  Running cost for 2 nights of dinners - $20.  We had the same thing on Tuesday night with bread and some leftover roasted veggies from Sunday.  Running total...dunno $22 for 3 nights so far?

I took the chicken carcass, giblets and a few root veggies and boiled it for a few hours to make stock.  Wednesday night I cooked rice noodles in the stock with some asian spices, fresh jalapeno and wedges of lime, dash of sriracha and voila - a pot of faux vietnamese pho!  let's say it cost me an additional $5 so we're at $27 for 4 dinners.

I'm making potato pancakes tonight.  We already know how cheap potatoes are.  Couple eggs, little flower, salt, spices, oil to fry them up on and some dipping sauces on the side.  Still, it'll be 5 nights of food for less than $35.  For 2 adults and 2 kids.

mlejw6

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #149 on: November 03, 2016, 10:59:04 AM »
I'm going to look at phones. I need a chance to sit down and really look over plans. Someone here suggested T mobile. We are in an area where Verizon is the only service that truly offers any reception. T-Mobile does not. I have never looked at any of the cheaper phone providers. I would like to keep the phone I have. I have not bought new cell phones in years. My wife and I both have been out of contract for at least two or three years if I remember right.

We do not carry insurance on our phones and when something happens we just buy used ones. I paid around $130 or so for the model I have now, and that was a year ago. It is a Droid RAZR HD maxx. My wife has the regular RAZR HD.

If we did pick up a new provider, I'd like to be able to use these same phones, just put a new SIM card in or however that works.

The bolded above is incorrect. You have been buying a new phone probably every year. But it's not yours. You pay enough to buy a phone for someone else who gets a free phone with their new 2 year contract. Meanwhile, you are still paying the same ridiculous price for your plan and have old phones to boot. The only good thing is that you are free to leave whenever you want. So leave NOW!

Congrats on finally starting to get your head out of the sand! I look forward to hearing about your progress.