Author Topic: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.  (Read 46479 times)

taking fire

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Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« on: October 25, 2016, 08:31:51 PM »
I have debated whether or not to start this thread for a few weeks. I am mentally exhausted because of worrying about this. I'm also driving my wife insane. To be blunt, I don't make enough money for us to get by comfortably and the future doesn't look very bright.

I worked a job for almost 12 years where I was very respected and really had it made. Literally. The problem was mandatory OT coupled with very low pay for the skill set. I was literally sick to my stomach with working so much. I thought a new job would change things.

In April of this year, I started a new job. I took a major hourly increase, but there is hardly any OT. I felt good about it at first, but now I just think it was a bad decision. I don't make much less than I was making, but the problem is that I was barely getting by as it was. Now the problem is worse.


To begin with, pay negotiations did not go as planned. Their offer was way low, and I countered, but was refused. So I took the job - basically because I was desperate to get out of the old one and get my life back.

To get in the door at the new company, I took a position that is a little below my skill set. I waited and miraculously, a job in my skill set opened up. I bid on the job and did the interview, but I was very disappointed to find that it only paid $.050 more per hour than what I was making. I tried negotiating for more but was again denied. I still don't know if my initial acceptance of the first position after being denied on negotiation was a good thing. Basically I feel like I failed..the company knows it, and I'll never have any pull when it comes to this ,since they know I'll give anyway.

Bored with the initial job I took when I walked in the door, I took the .$050 offer and the new position. Unfortunately, it involves a little OT. That OT is starting to show, and I have been reminded of why I hated it so much at my old job. Since this is a corporate atmosphere and job guidelines and pay scales and all that are pretty much set, I have to stay in this position for a year before I can bid out or down. I can bid up, but there is only one level higher and those positions don't open up often and I likely won't get the opportunity.

I've had zero savings since I started that job. I have run up $6k on a credit card on things I actually need..not just spending money. This is because I am running short on money.

Like most folk's, my healthcare costs are rising again on 1/1/17. I'll bring home about $50 less a month because of it.

I'm just pretty down right now. There will be no significant raises for me in the near future, and even in the coming years they will only amount to small annual increases that do pretty much nothing but do a bad job at keeping up with inflation.

As it stands right now, I can't even afford to go out and grab lunch one say during the week.

I'm just stuck in that very familiar place. Why the hell am I working, and spending the majority of the time I have away from my family, only to not have any money to spend when I actually do get some time with them. It is a very depressing thought. Short of getting a second job (where I would then never see my family) or trying to start over, I don't have many options.

I am married and I have two small kids. My wife works as well, and she is in pretty much the same boat. No significant raises coming her way either. I can't afford to just quit work and experiment with careers. I have kids I have to support and a mortgage.
 

Zikoris

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2016, 09:30:52 PM »
Post your income and a breakdown of expenses. I guarantee we'll find so much fat to cut, it'll make your head spin.

kendallf

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2016, 09:33:27 PM »
The OP posted a case study about a year ago, and got many suggestions for cutting expenses. 

OP, I'm guessing you have not followed through with tracking/cutting your expenses, based on my quick read of your prior case study.  The reasons why are probably more at the heart of your problems than a slightly reduced income.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2016, 04:38:21 AM »
Whats keeping you from looking for another new Job?

UKMustache

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2016, 05:34:48 AM »
The OP posted a case study about a year ago, and got many suggestions for cutting expenses. 


OP should post a new case study and if none of the changes suggested last time have been implemented then there's very little point in anyone trying to help and this is just a pity party.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2016, 06:37:20 AM »
Could/does your wife work?

crispy

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2016, 07:41:25 AM »
OP, this may not be practical for you, but I grew up in rural Alabama in a place without a lot of opportunity.  I moved to a place where there was a lot more opportunity to grow.

taking fire

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2016, 10:27:55 AM »
I will reply with an update from the original case study thread I just haven't had time to sit down and write it out. Stay tuned.

dude

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2016, 11:44:22 AM »
GTFO of Alabama!

honeybbq

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2016, 12:40:57 PM »
I read the old thread... what's changed? Did you take any of the advice?

TheDuder

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2016, 01:17:06 PM »
GTFO of Alabama!

Curious as to why this is your solution?

OP, what part of the state do you live in?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 01:19:53 PM by TheDuder »

Guesl982374

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2016, 01:24:08 PM »
GTFO of Alabama!

Curious as to why this is your solution?

OP, what part of the state do you live in?

Given dude lives in the Northeast like myself, I am going to assume that he means: Leave one of the least prosperous states (economic speaking) for one that offers more economic opportunity.

taking fire

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2016, 08:14:54 PM »
Here is the old thread:

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/case-study-here-we-go/msg867237/#msg867237

Notes on the new job. The new job is a lot better than the old,  unfortunately it just doesn't pay very well and I am now driving fifty miles round-trip each day.

We no longer have daycare expenses like we did last November. My mother in law came out of work and keeps our youngest daughter now. We pay her $100 a week, so that works out to $5200 a year. Still a cost, but not as much as it was.

One of our kids no longer does gymnastics. That was costing us a pretty good bit, but we don't have that expense anymore.

In the previous thread you probably saw the mention of the motorhome included with my vehicles. We finally got to the point where we were so tight that we had no choice but to sell it. I have still not told my grandfather about this and I am not looking forward to the conversation when he does call and ask how it's doing.

We still have the same other two vehicles. We got fortunate and a family member had a small fuel efficient vehicle that they let me borrow to drive back and forth to my new job until I could save up to buy myself something -which isn't going too well.

The vehicle issues start there.
 
The first is that my wife's car just passed 200k miles. It is falling apart. The second problem is that since I am not making enough money to actually save any money,  I have not been able to save anything towards buying my own vehicle for my work commute. I have driven the vehicle loaned to me for almost six months now. I ended up buying tires for it about a week ago.

I went ahead and bought tires for my wife's car as well.  Both vehicles tires have been pushed to the limit. I actually drove the loaned vehicle until I had two blowouts in the same trip, so I had no choice but to buy tires for it.
This was the last purchase made with my credit card, which was over $600 for both sets.

I'm a little irritated with myself because I cannot seem to get a working budget and we are pretty much in the same place that we were 10 months ago when I started the original case study.

The pay situation is stupid, but there is not much I can do about it. Moving to another state is not an option for us. That would mean uprooting everything. My side business requires a work space, which I built for the second time in a detached garage / work shop when we moved into our current home. If I moved, I'd have to do that all over again.

With the one hour work commute, I am back in that 10 - 11 hours a day thing.  I do get my weekends off but I still don't have much time for the side business. It is a balancing act that I have struggled with since I started the business. I don't want to miss my kid's childhoods and the way it's been for the past decade or so. I have to pick between either doing the side business or spending time with my family, and that is very difficult as you can probably imagine.

I kind of thought that the new job would change my life. It did to an extent, but I am still very unhappy and just generally tired of working for someone else. While the new job is better, since I am new I have no vacation time and I have no respect because I am the new guy. This is something that I will have to get over. It is just tough going from being respected and trusted at work to having to go through the years it takes to earn it again.
 
My wife's position was also discussed in great detail in the original case study thread. She did end up taking a position in her institution and was given a pretty significant raise. She is expecting another raise before Christmas that should give her another decent jump. We are not sure how much though. I know it is the "counting chickens before they hatch" thing, but hopefully it will come along.

The bottom line is that I know cutting our expenses will help a little, but the way I see it, the only thing that will truly change our lives is a significant pay increase. I'm not sure how to do that other than changing jobs again or going back to school for some degree..both of which I am neither financially prepared for or have much interest in doing.

My side business would make some money, but I don't know how much. I don't know if it would be enough to support us. My wife could carry health insurance through her employer bit it will cost double what my rates are..at which point it would be pointless for her to work. Where mine will be roughly $100 weekly, hers at her employer would cost $200 weekly.

I do know one thing for sure. I will never be able to put the dedication and effort I want into my side business while working a normal job. It is pretty much the same as working two jobs, and I would never see my family.

At this point I could quit and try to go full steam ahead with the side business, but I don't know if it will be successful or if it will be enough to pay our bills. Since I am basically the "bread winner," losing my income without being able to replace it could be catastrophic for us. I have to have health insurance and I'm 99% sure I'd never be able to afford it on my own buying from "the marketplace." I have several friends that do run their own businesses in that situation that do not have insurance because they can't afford it. I don't really have that option with two children at home.

Zikoris

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2016, 08:51:47 PM »
You did a very long post, with very few numbers in it. We can't help you without numbers! You need to list your monthly income, and a detailed breakdown of monthly expenses.

Dexterous

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2016, 09:01:34 PM »
My side business requires a work space, which I built for the second time in a detached garage / work shop when we moved into our current home. If I moved, I'd have to do that all over again.

I do get my weekends off but I still don't have much time for the side business. It is a balancing act that I have struggled with since I started the business. I don't want to miss my kid's childhoods and the way it's been for the past decade or so. I have to pick between either doing the side business or spending time with my family, and that is very difficult as you can probably imagine.
 
My side business would make some money, but I don't know how much. I don't know if it would be enough to support us. My wife could carry health insurance through her employer bit it will cost double what my rates are..at which point it would be pointless for her to work. Where mine will be roughly $100 weekly, hers at her employer would cost $200 weekly.

I do know one thing for sure. I will never be able to put the dedication and effort I want into my side business while working a normal job. It is pretty much the same as working two jobs, and I would never see my family.

At this point I could quit and try to go full steam ahead with the side business, but I don't know if it will be successful or if it will be enough to pay our bills.

I've got an idea, scrap the side business idea because it's costing you a ton of money now and not working.  You and your wife make enough income to pay the bills, and this is only causing more bills (loan on the shop/equipment), and takes more time than you want to spend.  There's one less stressor, more time with your family, and more money to pay off your other debts.

Notes on the new job. The new job is a lot better than the old,  unfortunately it just doesn't pay very well and I am now driving fifty miles round-trip each day.

We still have the same other two vehicles. We got fortunate and a family member had a small fuel efficient vehicle that they let me borrow to drive back and forth to my new job until I could save up to buy myself something -which isn't going too well.

I'd move to a cheaper house closer to your work ($200k for your current house is a bit much for that income in Alabama), depending on where your wife works.  Or find another job, sell your truck for something more efficient, etc.

I went ahead and bought tires for my wife's car as well.  Both vehicles tires have been pushed to the limit. I actually drove the loaned vehicle until I had two blowouts in the same trip, so I had no choice but to buy tires for it.
This was the last purchase made with my credit card, which was over $600 for both sets.
You said you were saving money each week in the first thread, so why did you not use those savings for the tires?  Paying high interest loans is not what you need.  Make sure you pay off your other credit cards ASAP also, and get rid of them as soon as you do.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 09:03:18 PM by Dexterous »

Dexterous

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2016, 09:12:27 PM »
You did a very long post, with very few numbers in it. We can't help you without numbers! You need to list your monthly income, and a detailed breakdown of monthly expenses.

He did that a year ago, and my opinions are as follows:

The mortgage is too high for Alabama and that income level
The side business is a money sink and not worth the loans & time involved
The credit card debt at that income level is unacceptable and should have been paid off by now if it's not... he had over 1k extra per month?
Once the debts are paid, they should get more efficient vehicles for the commute... not a truck
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 09:14:02 PM by Dexterous »

Zikoris

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2016, 09:18:45 PM »
You did a very long post, with very few numbers in it. We can't help you without numbers! You need to list your monthly income, and a detailed breakdown of monthly expenses.

He did that a year ago, and my opinions are as follows:

The mortgage is too high for Alabama and that income level
The side business is a money sink and not worth the loans & time involved
The credit card debt at that income level is unacceptable and should have been paid off by now if it's not... he had over 1k extra per month?
Once the debts are paid, they should get more efficient vehicles for the commute... not a truck

I don't think we can relly give advice based on numbers from a year ago, especially not when apparently there have been major life changes, and we don't really know what has or has not changed.

OP - current numbers please! We'd like to help, but need something to work with!

taking fire

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2016, 06:12:28 AM »
I''ll get you some new numbers up soon. Sorry it is taking me a bit to gather everything.

dude

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2016, 07:08:11 AM »
GTFO of Alabama!

Curious as to why this is your solution?

OP, what part of the state do you live in?

Given dude lives in the Northeast like myself, I am going to assume that he means: Leave one of the least prosperous states (economic speaking) for one that offers more economic opportunity.

Precisely.

"One of the marvels of the world
is the sight of a soul sitting in prison
with the key in its hand.
Covered in dust,
with a cleansing waterfall an inch away."

-Rumi

Guesl982374

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2016, 07:23:32 AM »
Notes on the new job. The new job is a lot better than the old,  unfortunately it just doesn't pay very well and I am now driving fifty miles round-trip each day.

50 miles/day * 49 weeks * 5 days per week = ~12K miles/year. At the US average of $0.54 = $6,600/year after tax. Reducing (or eliminating) the commute by selling the expensive house and buying a more reasonable house closer to work (assuming a 50% cut in housing costs, or $7K/yr after tax) will be the equivalent to getting a $15-20K annual raise at work (not including the cheaper housing).

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein <-- If you want different results, you need to make smart changes.

lthenderson

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2016, 07:52:27 AM »
The bottom line is that I know cutting our expenses will help a little, but the way I see it, the only thing that will truly change our lives is a significant pay increase.

In my experience, unless you can control expenses and savings, no amount of money through pay increases will solve your problems. Those who can't control expenses and savings that do get jobs paying more money just end up with money problems on a larger scale.

Zikoris

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2016, 08:10:51 AM »
I''ll get you some new numbers up soon. Sorry it is taking me a bit to gather everything.

I guess this means you didn't follow through on the suggestion from a year ago to start detailed tracking, or this would be very easy to pull. You should definitely start that, in any case!

hoping2retire35

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2016, 08:29:12 AM »
Glad you have a better vehicle.

Two things that strike me as money pits. Your expensive house/mortgage. And, potentially, side hustle.

Seems like you don't want to look at the numbers too closely. I don't blame you I have been there. Dont focus on the quatitive aspect as much, more just on your happiness and living a fulfilling/frugal life, the rest will follow. Remember my finances are very similar to yours. for the next couple of months just enjoy family and not focusing on buying stuff/ side hustle or money issues. Only basic bills and food.

When you feel inclined look over statements, look for unneccessary insurance costs, make sure all your food is the MMM $1=660 calories. for me this is oatmeal, WW flour, on sale meats (pork or beef is $2 per lb, dark meat chicken <$1 lb) look for the 'on sale today', buy it and throw in the freezer, thats what I do at lunch time, olive oil and coconut oil, don't buy crackers and cookies, you can make much more cheaply. if you are 25 mi from home might be a good idea too if you have access to a fridge at work. lots of other suggestions on the forums.

liberty stache, if he has a decent commuter/beater its more likely going to average <$.20 a mile.

Slee_stack

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2016, 08:59:49 AM »
Agree w/ everyone.

A side business that is an expense, not an income stream.
A house that is too expensive for the area.
A refusal to leave the area or develop other skills because its too inconvenient.

Don't change, but expect change.  Not a good philosophy.

okits

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2016, 09:11:09 AM »
taking fire: happy birthday!  Waiting for your updated case study before offering suggestions.

mlejw6

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2016, 10:36:32 AM »
I have four words for you:

You Need A Budget

https://www.youneedabudget.com/

Go to that website right now and start your free trial. Put in all your required expenses, plus a savings category. Fill it out. Do you have any extra? Good. Take all that money and start paying off your credit cards. That is the only thing you are allowed to do with extra money every month until they are all paid off.

Then, come back with a real case study, and simply fill in from your YNAB budget.

Guesl982374

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2016, 01:02:47 PM »
liberty stache, if he has a decent commuter/beater its more likely going to average <$.20 a mile.

I agree that auto expenses can be much lower than the IRS $0.54/mi. However, IIRC, he also has a gas guzzling truck. While he mentions that he's borrowing the economy car to commute, I have to figure it's not 100% of the time and will use the truck as well.

taking fire

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2016, 05:08:59 PM »
Sorry for taking so long to get these numbers. Some things have changed since the last thread. I had to go through and be sure I had everything right.

Life Situation: This should pretty much be the same as it was in the original thread.

Gross Salary/Wages:

Mine is now $45,947.20 @ new job
My wife's is $27,040
That is a total of $72,987.20

Pre-tax deductions:

1. 401k. I contribute 3%, with that being the max employer match. It ends up around $50 coming out of my check each pay period (biweekly). I currently have around $37k in the account.

2. Anthem BCBS Medical Insurance for family: $95 biweekly. This will go up to about $200 biweekly after 1/1.

Other Ordinary Income: 

The side business already mentioned.

Qualified Dividends & Long Term Capital Gains, Rental Income, Actual Expenses, and Depreciation: 

I don't think I have any of these.

Adjusted Gross Income: This should equal the additions and subtractions above. 

I'm not sure if this is the same as our combined net incomes, but if so, we bring home about $56,082. This is my net @ $35,802, and my wife's @ $20,280 combined.

Taxes: Federal, state/local, and FICA. These should be consistent with your AGI and Life Situation.

For my pay, this past period, which is biweekly:

I made $1767 gross
Federal income tax - $49
Federal SS - $103
Federal medicare - $25
state income tax - $68

For the wife, she gets paid biweekly too. She gets around $1000 gross and brings home about $780 net.

Her deductions are:
-Unavailable at the time of this post. I will update later if requested.-

Dental insurance: my wife carries bcbs dental insurance for our family through her job, because it is better coverage than what my employer has. $18


Current expenses: Provide breakdown and relevant details. 

On an annual basis, I bring home $35,802 net. My wife's pay is pretty consistent at $20,280 net. Combined, that leaves us with an annual net income of: $56,082

Annual expenses are as follows: 

House - $15,132
House's second mortgage $840
My wife's life insurance - $376
Both of my children's life insurance - $240
Power - $3,000
Personal loan at the bank - $2,880
My life insurance - $540
Wife's Kohls Shopping card -$360 (this is $25 minimum monthly payments)- we pay $30
Cable Internet - $468
Water - $540
My cell phone and my wife's - $2,880 (See notes in previous thread on phones)
Car insurance through Allstate. - $1,608
Trash disposal service - $192
My credit card - $1,572 (making minimum payments - $131 a month)
Groceries - $4,800 (we actually spend a little less now because we don't always have the roughly $92 a week to spend.
Fuel - $2,640
Daycare - $5200
My Medicine - $100 (I'm on Rx acid reflux meds)


Total expenses:$ I'm getting $43,368 here but I have 45,077.64 on paper. Either

Either way  that still should leave us with: $11,000 or so unaccounted for.


Expected ER expenses:I'm not sure if these are relevant to me.

Assets: The only Assets I can think of that we have are as follows: House and land - worth maybe $215k, My 401K - About $37k, My truck, $3k, my wife's car - $4k. So about $

Liabilities: 

House mortgage. See notes in previous thread about the breakdown.

Wife's Kohls Shopping card: balance is $752 @ 21.9%. Minimum payment is around $25 (we pay $30)

My credit card: $6,000 balance w/ $131 minimum payment. 16.9% variable purchase rate, 24.9% variable cash advance rate.

Bank Loan for a machine needed for my side business: Original loan amount - $9,928.25 @ 6.5%APR for 4 years, originating in March of 2015. Payment around $240/month with a remaining balance of $6,218. (Probably a tad less now -I did the math a month or so ago)

And new to this updated thread, medical bills. Before the end of last year, these were never really a problem because everything was 100% covered. Now, everything is only covered at 80%.

My wife and I both have had several mandatory things done this year. So now, I think we have combined medical bills of about $1500. We are paying minimums on about five different bills that range from $10-$25.

I know the phones are ridiculous. That's something I have yet to look into and I still am going to do. The short of it is that we still have unlimited data, which we use, and I don't want to get into a plan that has limited data. There are phone companies around us that offer unlimited data but the cell service is terrible. So we currently have Verizon.

Again, The only reason I keep my CC is because it has a $12K limit, and my wife's (which is paid off) has a $5k limit. I look at them as sort of an emergency fund source so that we have a safety net.

 

taking fire

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2016, 05:14:38 PM »
liberty stache, if he has a decent commuter/beater its more likely going to average <$.20 a mile.

I agree that auto expenses can be much lower than the IRS $0.54/mi. However, IIRC, he also has a gas guzzling truck. While he mentions that he's borrowing the economy car to commute, I have to figure it's not 100% of the time and will use the truck as well.

 I hardly drive the big truck anymore. I might put a tank of gas in it every two months. It needs tires too so I can't really drive it anywhere that far.

okits

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2016, 05:27:12 PM »
Credit card debt:
last year's post: $930 and $4155
this year's post: $752 and $6000

So you actually owe more than a year ago?

Those minimum payments are getting you nowhere, fast.  You desperately need to pay these off, and avoid carrying a balance if at all possible. 

Are the numbers you listed actual spending (e.g. you added up receipts, kept a spreadsheet, etc.) or just your best guess?  That you have such round numbers and $11k unaccounted for suggests you haven't been tracking your actual spending and you need to do this as a starting step.

PharmaStache

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2016, 05:36:03 PM »
There is tons of stuff missing.  Cash? Restaurants? Entertainment? Clothing?  Household goods?  School supplies?  Home maintenance?  Car maintenance? 

leighb

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2016, 08:43:13 PM »
Cut those cards up. Pay off your debt and don't go into debt again(excluding mortgage). It takes twice the effort to get back to the black.



snacky

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2016, 08:52:25 PM »
Do you actually want advice? I don't mean to sound harsh; it's an honest question. Last time you were here you were given a lot of sound advice and responded with a lot of defensiveness and many justifications. I can see that your situation has worsened and you haven't done the things originally suggested. If we reiterate them will you actually do them this time?

It would suck if you came back in another 6 mos or year in an even bigger hole. The time to fix this mess is now.

horsepoor

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2016, 09:15:33 PM »
Your can't afford the unlimited data.  Switch to voice only and put the $200 per month savings towards your highest interest debt.  Cut up the Kohls card.  If you have good credit, get a 0% interest balance transfer and put every dime towards paying it off.  Do not buy anything with that credit card you're carrying a balance on.  You're paying interest the second you swipe the card.

UKMustache

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2016, 04:26:23 AM »
Insurance on your children and your wife plus your mobile phones totals $2,286.
In the last year your debt has increased by just less than that.  In the last thread, people told you to cut those things and you didn't, so now you are in more debt.

I think your head is still in the sand here, get onto your online banking or pull your statements out for every card you own.  Find this $11k.  We can't do it for you.

pbnj

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2016, 06:21:46 AM »
Your hair is on fire. 
Your annual cell phone bill would cover me for 6 years. (not exaggerating)
+1 on cutting up the Kohl's card.  There is NOTHING you can buy there that you can't find at a thrift store.
Your annual car fuel would cover me for about 4 years and this includes about 4000 miles of vacation trips yearly.
Housing, vehicles, etc
I feel bad for ya but you have a lot to fix unless you always want to live this way.  If your job sucks look for a new one.  Take action and good luck.

P.S.  holy shit. Find that 11 grand.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 07:04:39 AM by pbnj »

Mariposa

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2016, 09:35:47 AM »
Your case is fascinating to me because some of my close friends and family live this way, too. Just read through the entire thread and the old one. What people here are reacting to is your stress level from living paycheck to paycheck and having to feed your kids onions for dinner, while you can't find 11k a year. That's crazy, but I think it's actually a common situation in mainstream America.

The good news is that your job sounds like it's better than before, despite the crazy commute, and you have your weekends now. It's also great that you found MMM and are interested in a more frugal lifestyle.

You sold the RV, daycare expenses went down, and gymnastics is gone, yet you are in more debt than before. And of course the mysterious 11k. The only explanation for this is you're doing a lot of unconscious impulsive shopping. I'm guessing you're in a bad cycle right now: super-stressed from paycheck-to-paycheck living, not even having enough to cover your grocery budget some weeks, worrying that the cost of your kids' funerals would devastate you financially, whereas if that rare and unfortunate event actually happened, I suspect funeral arrangements would be the least of your problems. You're probably self-medicating with a lot of impulse buys whenever you have a little money. Many Americans do this.

You have to be honest and not be too harsh or judgmental toward yourself during the process of defining the problem. Agree with all the posters who say you have to track your spending. You've listed a lot of numbers, but those are clearly not all your expenses. You are hiding a lot from yourself. You have not listed a bunch of things, such as eating out / haircuts / clothes / any travel / gifts / car maintenance / home repairs / etc. Those are all predictable expenses: you should not be unpleasantly surprised when you have to spend $1000 on a plumbing repair or $600 on tires. If you pay for stuff with cash and can't easily track though a credit card statement, you and your wife need to write down each and every purchase. In a notebook or some kind of smart phone app. After a month or so of tracking, you can identify 5-10 broad spending categories, and start to categorize your actual spending.

Do this for 2-3 months. It's been a year since your original post, and nothing has changed, so what is a couple more months? The purpose of doing this is to reveal your own behavior to yourself. You also then have the option of coming back for some healthful faceslaps.


2Birds1Stone

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2016, 09:54:01 AM »
You make 150% of the median household income in one of the lowest cost of living states in the country.

Open your eyes and take control of your life instead of complaining about it.

Rice & beans till you get your high interest debt paid off.

Get rid of the life insurance on your kids and your wife.......

Rent out a room in your house if you have to.

I can't believe people chose to live the way you do. You don't have an income problem, you have a spending problem.

Best of luck, some great advice in this thread.

Zikoris

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2016, 09:56:20 AM »
Why not start putting an extra $900/month (11K/year) towards your debt, immediately when you get paid, since whatever you're spending it on now clearly isn't necessities? You could knock out your debt at light speed if you did that.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 10:46:14 AM by Zikoris »

Mmm_Donuts

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2016, 10:29:53 AM »
Your children and wife do not need life insurance. You need to cancel this now, as it's totally unnecessary, and you can't afford it. If you're concerned about how to pay for their funeral in the 1/10000 chance they die in the next few years, pay off your debts so that you can use your CC for a funeral. Eventually, once these debts are paid, you can build an emergency fund for such an occasion. Otherwise you might as well be flushing this money down the toilet.

Track your expenses. And follow others advice on here about the car insurance and cellphones. You seem smart enough to get it, so get to work and next time you come back here I'd like to see some of these wasteful expenses eliminated, your CCs paid off in full, an emergency fund, and that you're knowing where 100% of your money is going.

Hop to it! I read your last thread from a year ago and you are really deserving of some face punches here. Zikoris has an excellent suggestion. Personal Finance 101 - pay yourself first.

Frugalman19

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2016, 11:00:50 AM »
Do you actually want advice? I don't mean to sound harsh; it's an honest question. Last time you were here you were given a lot of sound advice and responded with a lot of defensiveness and many justifications. I can see that your situation has worsened and you haven't done the things originally suggested. If we reiterate them will you actually do them this time?

It would suck if you came back in another 6 mos or year in an even bigger hole. The time to fix this mess is now.

Well said, there is no income problem here, there is a spending problem. Man up and be a responsible leader of your household. You are just hurting your family by not taking control of your financial life. You came here a year ago and tons of good advice was given, and it looks like you followed none of it.

golfreak12

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2016, 11:36:24 AM »
#1 thing I would do right now is changing cell service. I don't care if you get unlimited or that you tether with the plan. Its not worth $2880.
https://www.cricketwireless.com/cell-phone-plans?woo_campaign=Internal&woo_source=Homepage&woo_medium=TopBanner2&woo_content=Browse_Plans
You can get somehting like Cricket I posted above.
$50 get you 8gb of data and add your wife for $40 for the 2.5gb. Then you get -$10 discount for a 2nd line so thats $80 right there NO TAX. Then if you want hotspot, its +$10 so $90 for the 2 of you. $1060/yr VS $2880.
There Wi-fi everywhere, I doubt you need 30gb worth of data if you start using the wifi more.
- As a bonus you can even add more lines to your plan to save money if you know any family members. Adding a 3rd line gives you a $20 discount, 4th line adds $30 dscount and 5th line $40 discount.
I do this with people I know. Say it cost them $50 for a line, I charge only $40 but the line really only cost me $30. They make $10, I make $10. Win win for everyone.
- If you had like 5 lines on Cricket, add in what each line would cost and MINUS $100 worth of discount.
$50(8gb)+$40(2.5gb)+40+40+40= $210 - $100 dsicount = $110 TOTAL for 5 lines.
You could essentially have 5 lines for $110. Sell out the extra lines for $30 each which pays for you and your wife.

Dee18

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2016, 11:40:48 AM »
People made great suggestions previously, such as dropping those insurance policies on your  kids. They are not earning income that would need to be replaced.  I'd also reconsider wife's policy.  And the phone bills?  You do not need a wifi hotspot.  And cable?  And borrowing $9000 to buy a machine for a potential side hustle? 

I think the most important thing for you to realize is that you do not have an income problem, you have a spending problem.  As long as you keep wasting large sums of money on monthly, recurring non-necessities like ridiculous phone bills you will not get ahead. 

marty998

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2016, 04:24:45 PM »
Why do you need unlimited data? If you work 11 hours a day can I ask when do you have time to view unlimited movies and videos and then do all the things you say you cannot do (such as spend time with your kids?)

Paying $30 on the Kohls card when the minimum is $25 @21.9% interest is not a good strategy. It's painful... almost tempting me to by shares in Kohl's knowing this is what their customers are gifting them. Grab whatever spare cash you can find lying behind your couch and pay it off. Please!

The next paycheck you get, take $375 and pay down the card. The next paycheck after that, take another $375 and pay off the rest.

I won't pile on with the phones and life insurance because that has already be done, except to say you are spending on your phones 20% of what you spend on you house. That I find a little extraordinary.

Those little devices are really worth so much?


FINate

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2016, 05:41:27 PM »
You need to setup a mint.com account ASAP. In the previous thread you expressed some concern about security. I'm a techie and I don't think you have much to worry about with mint.com, I certainly don't. The only thing you have to worry about is seeing the hard truth about how much you're spending - i.e. where that missing $11k is leaking out of your budget.

It doesn't matter how great a deal you think you have with unlimited data. Unless you're somehow using that bandwidth to make more than $2880, this is an unnecessary expense. You don't need to stream 30GB of data with your phones, this is a luxury you can't afford. Stop justifying it. Cut this right now to the bare minimum, which should be 1/4 to 1/8 the cost that you're paying. <== Boom! You now have $2160 PER YEAR to pay for increasing medical insurance premium ($600/year) AND have money left over to aggressively pay down your credit cards.

Cancel the life insurance for your wife and kids already! Do it now, you are wasting over $600/year on this!! Incidentally, this is also the amount of your premium increases in 2017.

Cut up the credit cards (or freeze them in big blocks of ice if you can't bring yourself to cut them).

Combine the savings from cutting the cell phone bill and wife/kids insurance and no more CC debt to save an emergency fund. Then further reduce your expenses by dropping your full auto coverage down to just liability.

No eating out or paid activities, or other non-essential purchases (which should be obvious because you're going to setup a free mint.com account, right?) until your non-mortgage debts are paid off and you have a 6 month emergency fund saved. Stop spending $11k on stuff apparently so inconsequential that you can't even remember what you spent it on.

You started this thread saying you have an income problem. The bad news is that you actually have a spending problem. The good news, however, is that you have a spending problem which means you have a lot more control over this than you realize if you'd just acknowledge this 800 lb gorilla in the room. Stop justifying. Stop dithering. Stop making excuses and take control of your situation already.

This is an emergency, fix it NOW, don't wait! Is the stress, worry, and high blood pressure worth it? Then get back to us and we can help you take the next steps towards FI.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 10:22:20 PM by FINate »

FINate

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2016, 05:56:43 PM »
RE your side business. You are in financial distress so the only thing you should consider in this situation are the cold hard numbers. How much can you make per hour (after taxes and expenses) doing your side business vs. OT at your current job? Whichever makes more, do that exclusively until you're in a better financial position.

MrsDinero

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #46 on: October 29, 2016, 06:31:06 PM »

Total expenses:$ I'm getting $43,368 here but I have 45,077.64 on paper. Either

Either way  that still should leave us with: $11,000 or so unaccounted for.


That is a lot of money that is unaccounted for.

Do you eat out during the year? 

Do you spend money on clothes outside of Kohls?

Do you go to the movies, concerts, amusement parks, etc?

Do you ever go to the ATM and pull out a hundred or so dollars then wonder where it went?

I agree with everyone here that you are in a hair on fire debt emergency.

I agree that you should look into your phones ASAP.  I have unlimited data through Verizon too, however my company pays for my phone and usage.  Even though I'm not paying the bill, I still only use  minimal data because when I'm at home I connect my phone to WiFi.  I can still stream, but it doesn't come from my mobile data bank.

I agree you need to pay off your Kohls card asap.

You and your wife need to start tracking every penny you spend until you know where all your money goes.  Start by taking all credit cards out of your wallets and carry cash.  Write down everything you buy, even an $.89 pack of chewing gum.

If you only drive your truck every couple of months, then get rid of it.  You don't need it.

Wisewoman

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #47 on: October 29, 2016, 07:42:20 PM »
Why do you have life insurance on your kids?  Life insurance is meant to replace lost income of a breadwinner or help with cost of caring of a child if a spouse passes.  Ditch it
Term life for you and you spouse until the kids are 18 or 21.

sleepyguy

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #48 on: October 29, 2016, 11:21:18 PM »
First off, pay off those damn CC's... go talk to a bank to consolidate all the CCs to a LOC or something... those minimum payments are doing you any favours at 15%+ interest rate!!!  You being on MMM should know CC Balances (unless 0% leveraged ones) are the WORST!.

Just just glancing at this,

My cell phone and my wife's - $2,880 (See notes in previous thread on phones)[/i]

What in the world?  Really?
My GF and I are pretty stable financially... here are our plans.  And yes we don't feel "left out" of anything.
Cell for both of us - hers ($40/mth), mine ($150/yr), total of $630/yr for both of us... she needs an "expanded" plan due to her work.

You spend roughly 4x what we do on your annual cell bills WHILE struggling financially.  We could easily get this down to $300/yr for both if us if need be.

Something to think about.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 02:33:24 PM by sleepyguy »

snogirl

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Re: Stuck in that famiar place..broke.
« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2016, 12:02:57 AM »
1. Go to Dollar Store & buy a notebook & Pen.  That should be the last purchase you make besides necessities I.e. food, housing, clothing for your kids.
2. Track every single cent spent per day. Don't stop. Develop discipline around understanding every single cent you spend daily. Physically writing it down repeatedly will create awareness over time. Pen to paper old school method.
3. Strip all the fat - cable phone plans life insurances entertainment hobbies luxury foods get back to basics. Use the library or a flip phone and free WiFi desperate times demand desperate measures.
4. All extra money to paying off debt. There is no magic formula. It's quite simple but difficult because you will need to adopt change in spending!
Do the above one day at a time. Those days will turn to weeks that turn to months that turn to years. It isn't forever. Just for today.


Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!