Stealth Wealth... Exposed!

[NattyAnn]

We have been mustachian for several years, and have been flying under the radar with most acquaintances and family. People know we have good jobs and are frugal, but they didn't know how wealthy we really are.

Recently we made the decision to buy a pretty expensive piece of real estate as a residence/investment. It's big house divided into 3 units. We live in 1 and rent the other 2. We also made this big purchase without having to sell our first house... Everyone is totally shocked, and is starting to treat us differently. :(

We didn't want to proclaim our wealth to the world, but this was a really great opportunity for our family living situation. I don't regret the purchase, but I'm wondering if you've ever been in a similar spot?

I'm wondering if any of you have voluntarily (or involuntarily) revealed yourself as wealthy? How has it gone? Any advice?

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[calimom]

Just go with it. You guys sound super smart. Answer questions as they come up, as honestly as you can/are willing to. But enjoy your success and your frugality. You've got this.

[Retire-Canada]

Recently we made the decision to buy a pretty expensive piece of real estate as a residence/investment. It's big house divided into 3 units. We live in 1 and rent the other 2. We also made this big purchase without having to sell our first house... Everyone is totally shocked, and is starting to treat us differently. :(

So you bought a rental property and will also presumably rent out your original house then live in a portion of the larger rental property. Nothing super alarming in that. It's not like you just paid cash for a private jet. Two folks with good incomes and who were known to be frugal shouldn't shock anyone by buying and renting out a property. I'm missing what is shocking about this turn of events given the facts that were publicly known.

How exactly are they expressing their "total shock" and how are they "treating you differently"?

[CoffeeAndDonuts]

Congrats!

We recently bought a new home and moved. It was surprising to a number of people (1000+ mile move) and we were regularly asked about our old home. Our honest answer was that it'd be a few months before we got it on the market but that we would be selling it.

The fact that we could quickly buy a house and move and without appearing stressed even about selling the first resulted in some surprise among family and friends.

It doesn't seem to have negatively changed relationships. The only one that brings it up is my mom who's concerned for us.

Side note...It's been 7 mos since buying the new home. We got an offer that looks good just 8 hours ago!

Anyway, we never stressed too much and I think our speed and confidence with the new home allowed us to negotiate a better deal and that's a product of mustacianism. We probably weren't as mustachian on the sale in that we were slow in getting the old home on the market and did so at a slightly higher than realistic price. I'm glad we could without pressure.

Viewed from outside though, I'm pretty sure we tipped our hand a bit. Probably moreso in that our new home is in a pretty nice area of town and has pretty nice upgrades. Nothing extravagant but it stands out enough among our peer group that my wife was a little self conscious. It probably also stands out a bit when people compare our housing choices yet primarily drive the same car i had when my wife and I started dating about 14 years ago. Now 18 years old with broken ac and a couple windows that don't work right. Gotta get on fixing at least one window this weekend. It's mostly diy for the cars.

I'd just quietly and matter of factly tell your story, including the rental aspect of the plan, and let the chips fall where they may.

Again, congrats!

Edited for embarrassing typos.

[marty998]

Lets hope they don't start asking you for "help".

Congrats on your progress to get to that point :)

[Dances With Fire]

We have been mustachian for several years, and have been flying under the radar with most acquaintances and family. People know we have good jobs and are frugal, but they didn't know how wealthy we really are.

Recently we made the decision to buy a pretty expensive piece of real estate as a residence/investment. It's big house divided into 3 units. We live in 1 and rent the other 2. We also made this big purchase without having to sell our first house... Everyone is totally shocked, and is starting to treat us differently. :(

We didn't want to proclaim our wealth to the world, but this was a really great opportunity for our family living situation. I don't regret the purchase, but I'm wondering if you've ever been in a similar spot?

I'm wondering if any of you have voluntarily (or involuntarily) revealed yourself as wealthy? How has it gone? Any advice?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

This comes up on the retirement forums every now and then so I will probably be repeating myself. That said, the DW and I have not told anyone what our finances are. (My late mother knew I was a natural born saver and investor and knew that we were doing okay.) We are the millionaires next door but you would never know it. We live a simple lifestyle with travel as one of our passions.

The in-laws are spendypants and flaunt their wealth at every chance they get. Leased cars every other year. Big House. Big RV. Big screen T.V.'s in every damn room in the house. The list goes on. If they knew of what our REAL wealth was, the relationship would be even more tense. "How can someone that makes only X have that much in assets"? etc.

I have found over the years to just live my life and tell no one. It is easier that way and I don't have to explain anything to anyone. We are very private people and I like it that way. Cheers!

Dances With Fire

[NattyAnn]

Just go with it. You guys sound super smart. Answer questions as they come up, as honestly as you can/are willing to. But enjoy your success and your frugality. You've got this.

Thank you so much, I appreciate that!

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[brute]

We have been mustachian for several years, and have been flying under the radar with most acquaintances and family. People know we have good jobs and are frugal, but they didn't know how wealthy we really are.

Recently we made the decision to buy a pretty expensive piece of real estate as a residence/investment. It's big house divided into 3 units. We live in 1 and rent the other 2. We also made this big purchase without having to sell our first house... Everyone is totally shocked, and is starting to treat us differently. :(

We didn't want to proclaim our wealth to the world, but this was a really great opportunity for our family living situation. I don't regret the purchase, but I'm wondering if you've ever been in a similar spot?

I'm wondering if any of you have voluntarily (or involuntarily) revealed yourself as wealthy? How has it gone? Any advice?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Involuntarily here. We live in a nice (but in no way exorbitant) house, have well maintained vehicles, and some expensive toys. (Sous vide machine, nice le crueset cookware, a few nice pieces of homebrewing gear, a solid home gym) It's all acceptable to people when they see it until someone says "We had an $800 car repair and aren't sure what to do! I mean, who has $800 to spare?" Suddenly because we aren't commiserating about massive consumer debt, the light clicks on.

Then come the questions. "Why don't you live in a nicer house? Why don't you give to my charity/go fund me? Can i borrow enough for the car?"  This generally ends the friendship. We only seem to get along with doctors and architects these days, and even then, the mustachian ones. I'm a little jealous of their frugality and being willing to rent out rooms in their normal sized houses even when they're making $250k a year.

I suppose I should clarify that the friendships end because the people _won't_ let it go that we have enough money that they could borrow that "could totally change their lives and what kind of greedy bastards are we that we wouldn't lend them the money". That gets old fast.

[Exflyboy]

I'm afraid as soon as you quit work at far too young of an age, the cat is then out of the bag.

MIL couldn't (and still doesn't) understand how we can live with "no money".. We don't elaborate we just say "we're fine". Every now and then the hand comes out for a short term loan but due to a tardy repayment from the last one (although it did eventually get paid back) I think I have convinced DW that loaning money is a pretty bad idea.

I occasionally get the odd "well it must be nice not to have to work" comment from my family and I Usually say "yes we are very fortunate".. and leave it at that. Of course they also see we take off for an 8 week tour of somewhere abroad. so its not exactly easy to conceal the fact you are millionaires.

I personally don't care what people think and if I get asked how much we have (extremely rare) I'll usually tell them "you really don't want to know".

[dogboyslim]

My FIL is very frugal, and he was always concerned about how we are doing.  Several years ago he was speaking to me about his own retirement and had questions about RMDs.  I suggested that prior to them hitting the requirement age that they start taking out extra money from MILs 401k up to the top of their tax bracket so that when she hit 70.5 the additional RMD requirement wouldn't bounce them into the next tax bracket.  He looked at me and asked why someone in their late 30s even knew what an RMD was.  I explained that I was very concerned about my own RMD levels based upon projected portfolio growth, but that so long as I was employed with my present income range it really didn't make sense to take the tax hit now because the bulk of the RMD would be at lower rates in the future.

His comment was "I guess you guys are doing just fine then."  He took my reply to mean that we had plenty saved.  He's stopped asking leading questions about how we are doing too.  Other than that though, he treats us the same.  To the OP, if people get really nosey, just point out that you saw an opportunity to leverage some of your assets, and that you couldn't pass up the deal.  Then talk about carrying costs of the rental and the timing risks involved and make your voice sound stressed out over the cash flow.  Then people will think you overextended yourselves to buy the property, and then you're back into normalsville.  Good luck, and congrats!

[sol]

Our friends know that we have bought several houses without selling the old ones.  It barely raised any eyebrows, so I think you might be overreacting to their reactions.  They're probably not as shocked as you think they are.

I am retiring next month at age 41.  That has raised a few eyebrows, but I generally tell people that it's because we live modest lives and have low expenses, so don't really need much money, and they usually find that satisfactory.  Most people we know are eager to work to 67 in order to afford new cars, bigger tvs, and annual Disney visits because they think those things are the key to happiness.  They don't recognize the real cost of their employment/enslavement.  How could they, when they've never known anything else for their entire adult lives? 

People on this forum are very fortunate to have had the chance to have their eyes opened to alternative possibilities.  Count your blessings, friends.

[Exflyboy]

Our friends know that we have bought several houses without selling the old ones.  It barely raised any eyebrows, so I think you might be overreacting to their reactions.  They're probably not as shocked as you think they are.

I am retiring next month at age 41.  That has raised a few eyebrows, but I generally tell people that it's because we live modest lives and have low expenses, so don't really need much money, and they usually find that satisfactory.  Most people we know are eager to work to 67 in order to afford new cars, bigger tvs, and annual Disney visits because they think those things are the key to happiness.  They don't recognize the real cost of their employment/enslavement.  How could they, when they've never known anything else for their entire adult lives? 

People on this forum are very fortunate to have had the chance to have their eyes opened to alternative possibilities.  Count your blessings, friends.

Paraphrase from the Matrix.. "why do my eyes hurt so much?.. Because you have never used them before!"

[Mississippi Mudstache]

I am retiring next month at age 41.

Congrats, sol!

[katsiki]

People on this forum are very fortunate to have had the chance to have their eyes opened to alternative possibilities.  Count your blessings, friends.

AMEN!

And.... congrats!!

[Dances With Fire]

Our friends know that we have bought several houses without selling the old ones.  It barely raised any eyebrows, so I think you might be overreacting to their reactions.  They're probably not as shocked as you think they are.

I am retiring next month at age 41.  That has raised a few eyebrows, but I generally tell people that it's because we live modest lives and have low expenses, so don't really need much money, and they usually find that satisfactory.  Most people we know are eager to work to 67 in order to afford new cars, bigger tvs, and annual Disney visits because they think those things are the key to happiness.  They don't recognize the real cost of their employment/enslavement.  How could they, when they've never known anything else for their entire adult lives? 

People on this forum are very fortunate to have had the chance to have their eyes opened to alternative possibilities.  Count your blessings, friends.

^^^+1

Congratulations Sol!! Good to see that you still visit the forum. Best of Luck to you.

[NattyAnn]

Wow thanks everyone!

Yeah, I think it raises eyebrows in our families bc we were living in a tiny fixer upper cheap house in a low income neighborhood, and moved to "a big" pretty, historic house right next to the downtown area. I say "big"  because the house itself is massive, but it's been divided up into 3 units so it's not like we are living in the whole thing.

Here are a few examples of how people react when they figure out where we bought: (and by the way... We are trying very hard to keep it on the DL but people are nosy, and we both work at places where coworkers are also kind of like friends)

My spouse's coworkers now joke that the company should reevaluate how much they are paying him, because nobody at his pay grade should be able to afford a house like that.

Family members all seem to have random friends who are down on their luck, looking for discounted rental prices or a place to crash for awhile in our property.

Every time I decline to pay for some random junky thing, family members get irritated that I'm a cheap miser. It's like people expect me to buy a ton of stuff now.

It was just nice to not have people scrutinizing my every purchase.

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[inline five]

You would have been better buying it in a trust and just saying you are renting it. That is our plan, so our names are not attached to the property.

[RedmondStash]

I don't really talk about our finances much, but there was a FIRE group at work that used to get together for lunch and chat sometimes. I was pretty open with my friends there that I wanted to FIRE -- but I'm also a lot older than most of my former coworkers, so that helped them not question how I managed to save and invest. I think in their eyes, I'm of the generation that is supposed to do things like that.

If it comes up, I generally just say something like, "We've been working hard for 30+ years and saving our pennies, so...."

And if that doesn't work, I point them to the JL Collins stock series and to the MMM site, and I say, "Let me know if you have any questions!"

They never have any questions. :) And generally they let it drop then, because if they don't, I'll just ask if they've read through the material I sent them. Works like a charm.

[genesismachine]

We used to talk finances a lot when we were broke and it was exciting that we were moving up in the world. Fast forward almost 10 years and the numbers are starting to get really big for our family. We're not rich by any means, but we'll probably be at that level in less than 5 years.

I really regret talking about this in the past because now everyone has a sense of our net worth and we're definitely starting to get more quiet about it now. People definitely treat us differently now, they make jokes about how we're the rich ones, etc...

I'm really worried that things will change a lot 10+ years from now at the rate that we're going... But like several people have said, the cat will be out of the bag when we both retire (my wife already retired this year).

[COEE]

We used to talk finances a lot when we were broke and it was exciting that we were moving up in the world. Fast forward almost 10 years and the numbers are starting to get really big for our family. We're not rich by any means, but we'll probably be at that level in less than 5 years.

I know exactly what you mean.  I've spoken with my dad for many years about my income / savings / FIRE goals / etc.  Now that I'm starting to hit the exponential curve and see it all come together it 1) feels unfair that I've had so much financial success while my mom and dad have both worked just as hard as me but have not been as fortunate financially.  2) It gets REALLY uncomfortable every time he tells me that his non-profit could use some money (I don't believe in the cause of his NP).  3) I've made the mistake of telling him my salary from time to time - even though I try to keep it quiet.  It's twice what he's ever made.  4) He asked me to file his taxes for him because he lives overseas and there's lots of hurdles to filing your taxes when living that far away.  He would be poverty level these days if he live in the US.  :(  5) I've started changing the subject quickly when money comes up.

For the OP:
I generally don't buy gigantic houses and don't get any questions!  Done!  Hehe.  Seriously, I'm guessing you're fine.  If your coworkers are really friends they should be able to joke with you, but still show you respect and be your friend.  Sadly coworkers are forced friends, and ask yourself if you'd spend time outside of work with them.  I always advise not to do business with family - ever - including giving your families friends a place to crash.

It sounds like you're doing just fine.  Keep up the good work!

[frugalecon]

Our friends know that we have bought several houses without selling the old ones.  It barely raised any eyebrows, so I think you might be overreacting to their reactions.  They're probably not as shocked as you think they are.

I am retiring next month at age 41.  That has raised a few eyebrows, but I generally tell people that it's because we live modest lives and have low expenses, so don't really need much money, and they usually find that satisfactory.  Most people we know are eager to work to 67 in order to afford new cars, bigger tvs, and annual Disney visits because they think those things are the key to happiness.  They don't recognize the real cost of their employment/enslavement.  How could they, when they've never known anything else for their entire adult lives? 

People on this forum are very fortunate to have had the chance to have their eyes opened to alternative possibilities.  Count your blessings, friends.

Sol, I’m hoping that you start a journal about your retirement experience when you move into the next phase. I have convinced myself to wait for MRA 2.75 years from now before seriously considering  retirement, but some days I wish I had your cojones to do it now.

[matchewed]

Re: the whole people coming out of the wood works to live at your place. That's not about wealth necessarily but that you have an asset that people see need for. The same thing happened when we bought our multifamily. Suddenly everyone knew someone who needed a place to stay.

They are actually trying to be helpful to both parties they know. I just viewed it that way.

I also responded that it's a business and that we would evaluate potential tenants at the appropriate time with the appropriate criteria.

[sol]

Sol, I’m hoping that you start a journal about your retirement experience when you move into the next phase.

I think I'm starting a blog.

Unlike most people here, I spend almost no time on the forum while at work.  So I expect that I'll have more time to write after retirement, not less.  Some of our best posters have virtually disappeared after retirement, but I don't expect that to happen in my case.

[mathlete]

I generally don't have an issue with the perception that I'm rich, because it's kind of true.

Also, I find that people spend much less time thinking about you than you may think.

[katsiki]

Also, I find that people spend much less time thinking about you than you may think.

This is very true!

[Much Fishing to Do]

Most folks would probably assume you just have a really good credit score and don't mind taking on the debt.

I was conversely shocked at how broke someone turned out to be that I knew owned and developed many properties.

[hadabeardonce]

I'm wondering if any of you have voluntarily (or involuntarily) revealed yourself as wealthy? How has it gone? Any advice?

My income is public record, so I talk about it pretty openly and try to convince family members into becoming government employees. It's really a sweet deal...

Once we started mentioning that my wife makes more than I do, people started adding up the numbers and wondering why we don't live in a bigger place, drive a Porsche SUV and eat out every night. We hear murmurs of "you have the money for that" every once in a while and some ask for money, but it hasn't messed up any relationships. Both of us try to provide career and financial advice to the adults and youngsters... set an example...

I haven't printed any t-shirts with our net worth and savings rate, but it's a good idea for a holiday card photo/email. It would be fun to wear any day of the year... maybe just a white t-shirt that I could spray with a stencil or something, to keep it up to date.

[GuitarStv]

Congratulations Sol!! Good to see that you still visit the forum. Best of Luck to you.

These forums without Sol would be like the Daily Show without Jon Stewart.

While he started out poorly, the black Jon Stewart who took over the Daily Show has hit his stride and is actually doing a pretty decent job these days.

[EnjoyIt]

Congratulations Sol!! Good to see that you still visit the forum. Best of Luck to you.

These forums without Sol would be like the Daily Show without Jon Stewart.

While he started out poorly, the black Jon Stewart who took over the Daily Show has hit his stride and is actually doing a pretty decent job these days.

Trevor is fun to watch but he is not as good as Steward.  Also it seams that Jon Steward was much more knowledgable about politics and history where I feel Trevor is following more of a script.  I highly doubt we will be seeing Trevor Noah going on Fox and debating Hanity.

[GuitarStv]

I've been watching the Daily Show since Killborne was hosting it.  He started out pretty shaky too.  Don't get me wrong, I loved Stewart (and it took me more than a year after he left to even be able to watch Noah filling his role) but have come to believe he has left the show in good hands.